U.S. stocks fall over ‘fiscal cliff’ worries

“U.S. stocks fell for a second day as concern about budget negotiations in Washington overshadowed an agreement by European finance ministers on aid for Greece and a better-than-forecast report on consumer confidence,” Inyoung Hwang reports for Bloomberg. “The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index dropped 0.2 percent to 1,404.03 at 11:23 a.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average lost 33.63 points, or 0.3 percent, to 12,933.74. Trading in S&P 500 companies was 11 percent below the 30-day average at this time of day, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.”

“The benchmark index for U.S. equities lost 0.2 percent yesterday as lawmakers prepared to debate the so-called fiscal cliff. The S&P 500 has slipped 1.8 percent since Nov. 6 as President Barack Obama’s re-election set up a showdown with the Republican-controlled House of Representatives over the budget. Congress returns from the Thanksgiving recess this week, seeking a budget deal to avoid $607 billion of automatic tax increases and spending cuts from kicking in next year,” Hwang reports. “While Republicans favor raising federal tax revenue by limiting deductions, Democrats have pushed for higher rates on upper-income earners. The Congressional Budget Office has said a failure to avoid the fiscal cliff could lead to a recession and a jobless rate of about 9 percent, compared with the October rate of 7.9 percent.”

“Technology hardware companies posted the biggest loss out of 24 groups in the S&P 500, falling 0.6 percent. Hewlett- Packard lost 1.7 percent, the most in the Dow, to $12.52. Seagate Technology Plc retreated 3.9 percent to $26.28,” Hwang reports. “Corning jumped 7.6 percent to $12.21. The world’s largest maker of glass for flat-panel televisions boosted its outlook for the LCD glass supply chain in the third quarter, citing stronger-than-anticipated retail demand for televisions and other consumer electronic devices in North America and China.”

Read more in the full article here.


    1. @ BLN:

      Do you hold a mortgage for your house? If so, you are a debtor.

      Now that we can paste the shameful label “debtor” to your name, we can assume all sorts of unflattering things, can’t we? First and foremost: you are a hypocrite. Constantly bitching and moaning about “big government spending” while you yourself have a negative cash position.

      What this has to do with international corporations’ stock prices, anyway? Oh, that’s right: the majority of public debt can be directly traced to corporate welfare and tax loopholes. The real tax burden on corporations has never been lower. And you want to blame big bad government for everything? Perhaps you should put your energy into suggesting solutions for improved government efficiency rather than using your elected representatives as a scapegoat for the world’s problems.

        1. “First 2014, Then 2016”


          There’s ignorance. Then there’s DETERMINED and DELIBERATE ignorance. That’s you. Have fun while I cynically laugh at you.

          And yes folks, I’d love to see BOTH current US political parties VOTED OUT OF OFFICE. They’re both worthless.

      1. An idiot would agree to borrow an amount for a house that is worth less than the sum borrowed. Also, most citizens earn their salaries or wages by providing goods and services desired by other citizens,. The government obtains its finances from taxes and fees, and often without any measurable benefit for the working mean and women who must pay these taxes and fees.

        1. Damn right. Government did not build roads, internet, water and sewer. Does not put out fires, defend our country, keep our airplanes from hitting each other. Damn government is useless. Let us take back our country. We do not need any crap, particularly defense. We can use our AK 47s to protect our self. Everyone is a commie in the blue states you know.

          1. Solyndra et al = billions wasted on crony capitalism
            Education = billions spent without commensurate increases in student learning
            Welfare = billions spent without statistically reduced levels of poverty coupled with increasing numbers of social dependent citizen
            Health care = billions wasted on government interventions

            Also millions spent on bogus research, duplication of efforts among agencies, fraud that continues without proper remediation, etc.


            Yep, there is a boat load of idiocy in Washington, DC floating on a sea of red ink.

    2. The Fiscal Cliff is great. Think about it. The concern is that if congress does nothing…the government will be forced by law to cut sending and raise taxes. Hence forcing the government to operate with a surplus that can be used to pay the debt. If congress avoids the deadly Fiscal Cliff, the government will have a chance to continue the deficit spending. I say we need to go over the cliff.

      1. I’m entirely with you ramiuseng. I don’t personally comprehend how this lovely ‘cliff’ was devised. But I for one am going to be PLEASED to take the ride to the bottom.

        SPANKING our idiotic US federal government is an EXCELLENT idea.

        The most fun is going to be watching them CRY and WHINE over it, a great way for voters to weed out the babies in Congress and replace them with SANE ADULTS.

        Then maybe my country’s Congress can get back to work doing its ADULT duties to its citizens, as directed in the U.S Constitution.

    3. [Attempting not to break the political ‘truce’ here at MDN]:

      I certainly have to express my PISSED OFF face 😡 at the notion that President Obama wants to preempt the US Constitution (a common theme from BOTH ridiculous parties these days) and give himself control over the debt ceiling. That’s UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Here’s why:

      U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 8:

      The Congress shall have Power… To borrow Money on the credit of the United States.

      That means there is ZERO debt power given to the Executive branch. None. Not an iota.

      Only a constitutional ILLITERATE and/or TRAITOR would propose handing control of the US debt ceiling to the Executive Office.

      And let’s be clear where this traitorous idea came from:

      Tim Geithner’s Bad Idea on the Debt Ceiling

      Because certain people around here are SUCKERS to propaganda, and NEVER do their homework, let me provide a quote from this article, directly from constitutional ILLITERATE Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner:

      “To ensure that there are no more crises like last year’s impasse, Mr. Geithner proposed permanently ending Congressional purview over the federal borrowing limit, Republican aides said. He said that Congress could be allowed to pass a resolution blocking an increase in the debt limit, but that the president would be able to veto that resolution. Only if two-thirds of lawmakers overrode that veto could Congress block a higher borrowing limit.”

      This is plain ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Stupid President Obama has floated this idiot’s idea in his current debt resolution proposal. What an EXCELLENT way for Obama to KILL his proposal. It’s equivalent to an act of suicide. OF COURSE the entire Congress would throw down this proposal is an unconstitutional FAILure.

      Great act of suicide Mr. Obama. WAKE THE HELL UP!

      [Please note how I craftily avoided any mention of EITHER of the WORTHLESS US political parties in my post. I despise them BOTH as traitorous puppets of our Corporate Oligarchy as well as dire stupid. Please reply appropriately.]

  1. I don’t need a fiscal-anything to know enough to dump HP stock. And it’s not the impending fiscal reset that is causing the stock drops, it’s a profit taking sell-off by people who want to pay 2012 tax rates and not the higher 2013 rates.

  2. Blessings to all my comrades and useful idiots!

    Do not worry, I have everyting planned. The fiscal cliff is there to help push the USA FORWARD into my Communist Paradise, where everyone is equally stoopid, poor and hates everybody like I do.

    Don’t forget to recycle and use the US constitution to wipe your ass… I do it every day!

      1. Diddly, are you one of the many useful idiots that voted for me?

        Congratulations, you are helping to convert the world into the kind of paradise that communism has created throughout history.

        We had to kill a few hundred million people to get there but we are on our way.

        FORWARD. You dumbass!

  3. It’s funny how financial journalists works. If stocks are up, you find a positive recent news story, and say that’s why stocks are up. If stocks are down, you find a recent negative news story, and say that’s why stocks are down. They never provide any proof causation and don’t even really try. They say these things because you can’t disprove it, and they can’t admit that there’s no way to tell why stocks change the way they do most of the time, that it’s basically a game of luck.

  4. Let the tax cuts expire- all of them. If the ultra rich wish a tax cut, renounce your citizenship and go elsewhere. Oz will take you for about a $5 million investment with no age or profession restrictions.

    As to sequestration, if that’s the only way we can cut the obscene Defense budget, let ‘er rip. It’s Thelma and Louise time

    As to Social Security and Medicare- they are NOT entitlements. Entitlements are tax funded and based upon qualification based upon need or other legal criteria. Social Security and Medicare are insurance programs funded by their own taxation.

      1. The money was placed in Treasury Bonds and amount to a SURPLUS of over 2.7 Trillion dollars. If the Rethugs and DINOs can convince you it’s broken, they can steal it on the street or default on what was owed and use it to write off other debt.

        The Rethugnicans have been trying to kill Social Security since it was created, just like Medicare and the Affordable Care Act now. Wall Street wants the SS Trust Fund because they have stolen just about everything else and common people that have been NeoConned are buying in to their own robbery.

    1. The rich don’t keep their money under the mattress like the poor. They invest their money! That’s how they got rich, get it?

      So go ahead and tax the rich and give it the Obama phone ladies, and see how that works out for you.

      1. Actually, the poor don’t save their money. They can’t. They use it to buy badly needed living necessities. The rich move their money to the Caymans and live off the interest.

        But you knew that, because you’re not a complete idiot.

  5. Bar Stool Economics:

    Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay $1.
    The sixth would pay $3.
    The seventh would pay $7.
    The eighth would pay $12.
    The ninth would pay $18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

    So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers, he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

    And so:

    The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
    The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

    Each of the six was better off than before and the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

    ‘I only got a dollar out of the $20′, declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’

    ‘Yeah, that’s right’, exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than me!’

    ‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’

    ‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

    For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
    For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible!

    1. Oh so simple-minded Brian. Then of course you put a binary resolution at the end, the usual “Yur either FUR us or AGIN us”. Nice FAIL.

      Then again, seeing as you ‘Bar Room Economics’ is worthy of a gang of drunken sods, you may be laughing your ass off at our two ‘exactly’ friends who replied.

      Me Stuff:
      • I find BOTH ends of the ridiculous 1-Dimensional political spectrum to be worthless.
      • The wealthy have consistently had their taxes lowered since the 1950s. They have zero reason to turn traitor to the USA and go foreign. What’s really going on here is FAR more complicated than the fair payment of taxes. There are books! Read some. And please don’t attempt to summarize them in an MDN post. 😕

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