U.S. stocks erase gains as optimism over jobs data fades; Apple tumbles 2.1 percent

“U.S. stocks erased gains, after an early rally among benchmark indexes, as optimism about an unexpected drop in the American unemployment rate faded and Apple Inc. shares slumped,” Nikolaj Gammeltoft reports for Bloomberg.

“Apple tumbled 2.1 percent, helping to reverse an early advance among technology shares. Bank of America Corp. dropped 1 percent after surging as much as 2.6 percent. Zynga Inc. slid 12 percent after cutting its forecast for full-year bookings. Avon Products Inc. climbed 7.2 percent as the door-to-door cosmetics seller said Andrea Jung will step down as executive chairma,” Gammeltoft reports. “The unemployment rate unexpectedly fell to 7.8 percent in September, the lowest since President Barack Obama took office in January 2009, as employers took on more part-time workers. The economy added 114,000 workers, in-line with economists’ estimates, and August’s growth was revised higher by 46,000 jobs to 142,000.”

Gammeltoft reports, “Apple, (AAPL) the world’s largest company by market value, dropped 2.1 percent to $652.59 today, falling below its average price from the past 50 days. The decline helped erase an advance for technology shares in the S&P 500.”

Read more in the full article here.

[Thanks to MacDailyNews readers too numerous to mention individually for the heads up.]

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116 Comments

  1. “Unbelievable jobs numbers..these Chicago guys will do anything..can’t debate so change numbers” – Jack Welch, October 5, 2012

    Obama is a criminal and it’s criminal that he ever got elected in the first place. The U.S. media is hopelessly corrupt.

    1. 800,000 people leave the work force and 114,000 “jobs” “created” and this is touted as good news?

      The U.S.A. is doomed with this type of leadership and press.

      1. Yes, AAPL dropped 2.1% as people and groups donated to the presidential campaigns again.

        I looked at AAPL 4 years ago during the last Presidential election. I wish I had seen this pattern 3 weeks ago. Large sums of money are moving into the campaign donations just like they did 4 years ago. Maybe I will remember this in 4 years. Ask yourself, “Where is the cash coming from?” Not savings accounts, cash in checking accounts, bonds, … If people need to donate millions, where else do they go? They sell some AAPL stock and take some profits, donate some of it and get a tax deduction on their capital gains.

        I believe that is why AAPL dropped 4 years ago and is repeating the drop move now.

    2. This are the same agencies that have been reporting jobs numbers in virtually the same way for decades. Reporting the true state of employment is difficult and the numbers are subject to interpretation, but to accuse the Obama administration of falsifying or cooking the numbers is flat out insane. If they were able to do that.. why only start now? He should have been cooking those numbers for the past year to help his re-election bid. If you don’t like how Obama has handled the economy, there are enough real-word reasons to do so.. you really don’t have to resort to tin-foil hat conspiracy theories.

      1. The BLS conducts two surveys each month to determine employment data. The first is the establishment survey, which polls 410,000 businesses each month. The second is the household survey, which polls 60,000 households each month. As one might expect, the larger survey provides a more stable series and more reliable data. The smaller one is still a very significant sample, but in a nation of around 150 million households, it’s hardly an exact science.

        Any poll series can produce an outlier result. That’s true even of larger sample surveys, even when the sample is properly balanced, and even without malicious intent to tweak the results. It’s more likely to happen with smaller samples than larger samples, but can happen any time in surveys. That’s why it’s important to look at trending more than a single result within polling series, although some applications (jobless rates, elections) are intended more for single-result reporting.

        In today’s case, the establishment survey showed a result that corresponds closely to other economic trends and that doesn’t deviate much from the intraseries trend. The household survey, from which the jobless rate is derived, showed a very large deviation from its own trending and from the growth data in the economy. The last time we had that many added in the household survey, the GDP growth rate was around 9%, and it’s currently 1.5%.

        That’s why people who understand data and surveys look skeptically at the result of the household survey. It doesn’t mean a conspiracy is in place; it does strongly suggest that this month’s sample of 60,000 households threw an outlier, especially when compared with the establishment survey and other economic data. If so, it will likely correct itself in the next report. That’s not “trutherism” or denial, but straightforward data analysis.

        Update: Just to remind everyone, the next report comes out before the election — the Friday before, actually.

        Ed Morrissey

    3. I Am so dick of all this blaming of Obama for Ameicas woes… This is George Bushes doing Period…. No racist rewriting of history can change this … You tea party idiots are just laughable.. And when Obama is reelected and get a chance to finish righting what George fucked up maybe you will finally go away.

      1. I have access to internal polls, including some of the same ones that the media sees, but does not report because they want to make it look like a horse race in order to maximize political ad spending.

        This race is over. It was over before Romney dismantled The Empty Suit in front of 70 million voters. It’s even more over now.

        I told you people:

        President Romney and Vice President Ryan. Get used to it.

        1. I sure hope you are right First 2010. Unlike the simpleton Alancun who spouts off vacuous political opinions without thought, and clumsily throws around race baiting BS, I actually care about the future of the US and humanity and do not want to see the world plunged into a thousand years of darkness that would be the result of the US failing under more of Obamas reign of terror, and our enemies stomping on us while laughing.

          Iran getting nukes would be the least of our troubles if that mind numbingly incompetent empty suit got re-elected. I never thought I’d live to see the day when I would long for the glory days of the Jimmy Carter administration.

          1. Where do you people come up with this laughable bullshit? Someone’s been watching the propagandist, fear- and hate-mongering drivel spouted by Fox News far, far too much…

            1. Iran well on the way to getting a nuclear weapon is a known fact you simpleton.

              Race baiting bullshit has zero to do with Fox News or any particular outlet. It’s simply a way to bully people to go along with failed policies because they are designed to help minorities, or to silence criticism against Obana because his father was from Africa.

              You may not like my rhetoric but I spoke plain and verifiable facts.

            2. Don’t even bother to argue with them. Just do what the preident did the other night, rope a dope, the more you let Mitt talk the more information you have to bury him. Just look at the ads already running pointing out the flip flops he stated during the debate.

              Its like arguing about religion or evolution, most times it is not worth saying anything.

            1. I’m referring to a world with a crumbling and failed America that sees a rising surge of unopposed radical and violent Islam. This goes way beyond a failed Obama administration to a failed culture that cheaps out on defending itself and goes into debt paying for unnecessary goodies, decadent and corrupt.

              Iran gets nuclear weapons and see what happens. Not a pretty picture. Reelect Obama and that at least is a certainty, unless Israel is able to unilaterally stop them without our support.

            2. You’re basically saying a vote for Romney is a vote for World War 3. You should join his campaign, even that message is more positive than anything his current people are coming up with.

        2. These would be the automated polls that only ring landline telephones right? That methodology skews everything towards a more elderly demographic and is therefore useless to predict anything. People under 40 are more likely to have cellphones than landlines, and they also get to vote.

          But if you want to take comfort from your Tea Party echo chamber you go ahead. I’m sure on November 3rd you’ll go back to bleating about birth certificates anyway.

          1. People under 40 rarely vote the last Obama election was a singular anomaly. No such excitement exists this time as evidenced by the dismal voter registration numbers for Democrats. This election could turn into a Reaganesque landslide very easily.

            1. You have no way of predicting what the under-40 turnout is going to be. None whatsoever. However, if it helps you maintain the fantasy that Romney is somehow convincing the electorate that he’s better than the devil they know you keep pretending.

            2. Not entirely sure what you meant by devil they know. As far as knowing about turn out, it’s part speculation, and partly based on voter registration numbers. Democrats numbers have been down and Republicans up. Obama mania is nothing this year like it was 4 years ago.

              I feel very confident in my assumption about turn out. What evidence or logic can you present to the contrary?

            3. Oh just that Romney is an appalling candidate who stands for nothing other than being not-Obama. The GOP platform is totally uninspiring in every direction, and Ryan will prove to be a huge liability once his revealed fanaticism starts to turn off the middle ground voters. The playing to fundamentalists might be great to stir up the Christian Right that have taken over the GOP, but they don’t make up anywhere near the numbers that Romney needs to take this.

            4. Ryan will help with turn out. VIP rarely have a significant impact on any election and often a moderate candidate will chose someone that will excite their base.

              I disagree that Romney is uninspiring, but if you think of everyone who is right of center is a right wing but job there is no hope of having a rational debate there.

              As far as what will win this election: turn out. The big question remains: are we looking at 4 years ago? Or two years ago?

              Turn out is what decides elections and polls do a very poor job of predicting that. Especially this far out.

            5. What you are missing is that Obama is right-of-center too, as probably sits exactly where the GOP used to be. The “center” has been pulled so far to the right in US politics that the Republicans are now just a parody of themselves. When Romney said he wasn’t interested in the “47%” he meant it.

            6. Um no the center is extremely far to the left from where it was in past decades. The only area America has moved to the right is in the failed drug war. They still support Prohibition 2 even tho many used drugs while younger.

              In areas such as gay marriage, abortion, anti public display of Christianity, increased support for government programs and dependency.

              You lose all credibility when you say Obama is right of center. He passed the most massive and unprecedented government take over of our health care system. If that one bill stands it will end the private health care system in this country.

            7. All that comment has done is prove my point about how skewed American perceptions of left vs. right have become. The Obamacare bill wasn’t left wing at all. The money raised goes to the insurance companies, not the IRS. It has introduced the classic privatised UHC solution right-wing politicians in Europe go on about as a replacement for what’s currently in place.

      2. So George did 9-11 and created liar loans nad urged people to speculate in real estate. On the other hand Obama iddn’t get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan in one year and close GTMO. So that was an extra half trillion spent. I’m no fan of George W. or Obama. Just sayin’

        1. The guy that killed the ambassador in Libya was a prisoner at Gitmo. He was released under Bush due to pressure from Obama and the Democrats.

          Not sure what you mean Bush did 9-11. The loan fiasco was a bipartisan effort started by Dems pushing for loans to low income unqualified buyers to help the poor and accelerated with unregulated trading of mortgage backed securities. The whole mess has really not even been dealt with since it got turned into a blame Bush partisan issue.

          I’m not sure why all the hurry to get out of Iraq or Afganistan. We are still in Korea, Japan, Cuba, Germany and I hear no one talking about us pulling out of all our bases over seas. Meanwhile we are still fighting a war against a patient, ruthless, determined enemy bent on our destruction. How does pulling out and looking weak help out our cause exactly?

          We need to spend the amount of money required to defend ourselves. Period. You don’t jump out of a plane and save money by not buying a parachute. Money saved is only useful if you are still safe and alive.

    4. MDN is the most hopelessly PoliTard website I visit each day.

      As I frequently state: I curse all of you with the hope that all your ignorant wishes come true. You deserve them.

      I’ll continue living in the real world on planet Earth while all of you fight over how to better destroy the future of humanity. Babies with guns. 😯

      1. Ah, come on Derek. The ultra-rich really care about us. The first thing they’ll do after getting massive tax cuts will be to create massive numbers of new jobs. They also really care about poor people and non-whites… so much so that they save them the bother of voting with these new regulations. They also profoundly believe in freedom — as long as people’s choices don’t contradict their book of iron-age, sheep-herder rules. I’m REALLY with them on all that. I firmly believe the almighty creator of the universe is really, really preoccupied with which bits of their bodies various people touch against which bits of other people’s bodies, and what ceremonies they may or may not have gone through before doing it.

        Now MDN, I ask you again, please delete my political ravings —- and all the other stupid crap that gets posted on this site.

        1. Oh it’s you GM! Wishful thinking. I never said I was leaving. I wish you would leave too! There, we’re even. Thankfully, I do have one thing that you don’t: A working brain.

          HAHA! TROLLED YOU! Did you enjoy that? Are you the sadomasochist I suspect you are? Enjoy your weekend.

      2. Derek Currie, based upon the people that you piss off on this forum, you have to be saying something worth reading!

        You speak the truth…unfortunately, it is a sad and disturbing truth that does not bode well for the future of this country.

        1. This is my state of mind these days: I get to watch exactly how the USA manages to make itself irrelevant in the world. I’m not enjoying it.

          What is a sane citizen to do while being Shot By Both Sides? My brother-friends want me to move to Denmark. I’m in the odd situation where that is actually a possibility for me. But I’d rather enjoy living exactly where I am with sane, kind, caring, growing people around me. The apparent mandate for self-destruction within the USA is beyond my comprehension. The bletherfest that is almost completely devoid of positive or sane human behavior is only noise, solving nothing, providing no positive direction, offering no actual freedom from the dimwitted overlords manipulating the lunatic government puppet show. Sound and fury signifying nothing, blahblahblah.

            1. Blethering is Brit word for mindless talking at the air. ‘Fest’ is short for festival. I have seen it written as ‘blather’ but I have no idea where that spelling originated.

    5. “Tony Fratto, a former spokesman for President George W. Bush, tweeted that the Bureau of Labor Statistics “is not manipulating data. Evidence of such would be a scandal of enormous proportions & loss of credibility.”

      In another tweet, Fratto said: “Stop with the dumb conspiracy theories. Good grief.””

      Clearly in the pocket of Obama.

      1. It’s laughably easy to manipulate statistics. Sampling randomly is very difficult and it is easy to do that wrong. It’s not really that hard to get a biased sample on purpose.

        Is that what happened here? Hard to say for sure but there’s a huge credibility gap with these numbers regardless if it was done on purpose or not.

        The fact that liberals for example immediately jump on anyone who questions these numbers and defends the data speaks volumes.

    6. Obummer is getting some tips from Chavez how to fix the election. Only the “free” press is voluntary complicit with the criminal government in the US.

      Democracy in America is on life support.

      The leader of the free world is a closet Muslim wants to destroy democracy to bring Sharia law to America. Just wait a decade.

      Fuck Mohammed and the camel he rode in on!

      “The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.” -Czech President Václav Klaus

      1. discussion Noun: The action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

        If you really wanted *to exchange ideas,* I would be interested. But from everything you’ve posted, you merely live in the echo chamber of an alternate reality. As for my post being vacuous, I’m sorry it went over your head.

        Have a nice rest-of-your-life.

      1. How is it lunacy to question “positive” unemployment numbers with supposedly 800 THOUSAND new jobs and barely over 100 thousand reported? If that is not a huge bald faced lie I have never seen a lie.

        How can this unemployment “improvement” been seen as anything other than manipulation to cover over an enormous catastrophic and sadly predictable failure of distrust liberal policies which have never worked anywhere and fail repeatedly and spectacularly anywhere they are ever tried.

  2. AAPL shares will recover very fast if they split the stoc and better still introduce dividend reinvestment scheme and speed up share buy back. Split means management got cofidence in future earning. Share buyback means increase in EPS.Just by this action share price probably will increase by 20%

    1. Splits are not free, they costumes and are thus not an efficient use of taxpayer money. Better off spending the money aquiring talent, production, distribution and materials.

    2. The stock will not split. Apple has no incentive to split the stock. Apple already pays a dividend. 20% by what date? Dropping below the 50 day moving average is significant. And not in a good way. Earning’s come out October 25. It could be dicey? The bad PR, whether true or not, is hurting Apple. That’s simply a fact. Investors need to see some very positive press releases for Apple. That’s simply a fact. Riots in Apple production facilities in China don’t help. We need to see some stories regarding the iPad mini to get the stock moving in the right direction. And we need those stories now. There is generally a shake out before an Apple product launch to get rid of the newbie investors. But this drop is more than that. Better hope that it can turn around on Monday.If not, things could get very ugly for a a while. Well at least it’s a buying op!

    3. IMHO a 10 for 1 split would greatly reduce the options related manipulation and price movements, reduce the spread, which makes it more difficult for the algo traders, and make it attractive to retail buy and hold investors who like to buy round lots.

      1. There’s zero need to buy in round lots. You can buy single shares of Apple stock from online trading firms like Schwabb or etrade, costs you $9 per trade.with stock well over 600, that’s barely over 1%, and that’s only if you buy a single share. If apple cost 100x less per share that number would not go down. You’d still pay the per trade fee.

    4. Why do you think stocks split? It is just because some idiot thinks that the public is afraid to buy 10 units at $652 instead of 100 units at $65.20. Over 70% of the shares are owned by institutions and they can afford to buy more than one or two shares and don’t care about the unit price.

  3. Cheers for “7.8%” when the real unemployment stands at 14.7%(U-6). “7.8%” one month before the election is just way too convenient to be a coincidence. Only the Lib pawns would lap it up without question.

    It won’t matter anyway.

    President Romney and Vice President Ryan. Get used to it.

      1. No. The numbers are always wrong. That is why they are always revised.

        The more important number, as far as the health of the economy, is always the U-6 number.

        Regardless, it won’t matter.

        1. Given the state of the economy being on shambles due to Obamas horrible and always failed policies which fail worldwide in every culture, I never trusted the phoney polls from liberal media outlets. I just never believed Americans would rush to the polls to reelect a reeking failure who produced massive amounts of debt along with horrendous GDP growth.

          Blaming Bush for his failures was old the moment he took office. Bush saved is from a collapse FAR worse than the housing bubble after September 11, 2001. The only reason we have had four years of misery after that was due to disastrous leadership in the White House and congress.

          1. Please enlighten us, twightlightmoon. You speak of “liberal media outlets” with great derision. Are there any media outlets that you do trust? I am guessing that there are two…

            If you only trust information that is crafted to match the belief system that you have already established, then your mind is closed to change. You have ossified as a person and are incapable of productive debate and reason. In other words, a waste of time.

            1. What an enlightened comment Kingmel. I’m glad I’m a waste of time. I don’t recall personally insulting you in the past, but I guess since your belief system differs from mine that you need to take it out on me personally.

              Is that what it’s like to sit up high on your mountain and look down on me and others who disagree with you?

              I find the fact that most major news outlets are monolithically liberal to be depressing and disgusting. I’m not necessarily defending more right leaning outlets like Fox or Rush Limbaugh or claiming they are unbiased, but I’m far more likely to hear the whole truth at either if them even if it is filtered through a conservative viewpoint.

              I happen to think for myself and while I do tend to listen to more conservative media outlets because they make me less ill, I would never claim any outlet of information is perfect.

              The main problem with the liberal media echo chamber is the collusion between them and their bias getting in the way of truly examining liberal policies and politicians critically, and going after stories that hurt the liberal agenda. If you watch Fox or listen to Rush you’d know they are very frequently openly critical of republican politicians and policies.

  4. Who ARE these people who always post Obama-hate here? Why do stupid loudmouth haters populate what should be a Mac-centric board. I mean, web feedback is dependably pretty moronic, but not like the depths found on MDN. Kindergarten politics over and over again.

    1. Well politics and tech really can bring out the stupid in people. It’s all part of the desire to spin your own reality via rationalization biases. And then when your argument fails let your adolescent side shine though and insult people at that level.

          1. First 2010 can not leave. He has already been rejected by most circles of society. Pitiful as it may be, this is one of the few places that offer him any semblance of human interaction. We have MDN to thank for this little welfare program angry halfwits.

          2. So if I say that Obama is an incompetent idiot, as the whole world could see during the debate (watch it you dumb ass), then it is hate?

            I’m sure these criminals in the Democratic Party will soon ass hate speech laws prohibiting me from caled the president the ass he is.

            They tried already for years with their fairness doctrine, these shameless criminas.

            Already is imrisoning a guy fr making an anti Islam movie.

            PEOPLE WAKE UP, YOU ARE BEING SOLD DOWN THE CRAPPER BY THESE THUGS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

            At lest Slick Willy was just a serial rapist.

      1. Good advice, John, although sometimes difficult to follow. If someone is actually paying these people, then the money is wasted unless it is coming from the Dems. Because the incessant, irrational spew from these guys makes me want to vote multiple times for their candidate’s opponent, regardless of party.

    2. Stupid loudmouth haters. I think you are describing the liberal gibberish that thinking people had to put up with after all the crying over the Bush vs Gore election.

      1. Liberals like to paint it that way because they love to conveniently forget the double digit unemployment and double digit inflation under Jimmy Carter. Liberal policy has dramatically worsened the problems caused during the housing and banking crisis.

        Specifically Obama care debacle, pouring money mindlessly into phoney and hopelessly corrupt and incompetent alternate energy companies that contributed to Obama meanwhile preventing domestic drilling and energy production, bloating the deficit massively while making business climate more difficult. Not to mention blaming successful people, class warfare, the rhetoric of “you did not build that”.

        The level of economic illiteracy in the most prosperous and wealthy nation in human history among people who can vote is staggering.

        1. Let us not forget it was President Bill Clinton (D) who signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which was an important cause of the late-2000s financial crisis. “Another fine mess” by the Democrats. Clinton admitted too the Republicans did not pressure him into it.

          1. There is plenty of blame to pass around on that mess, it’s just that the bulk of media is monolithically liberal and has successfully dumped all the blame on Bush for the crisis.

          2. At President Clinton’s direction, no fewer than 10 federal agencies issued a chilling ultimatum to banks and mortgage lenders to ease credit for lower-income minorities or face investigations for lending discrimination and suffer the related adverse publicity. They also were threatened with denial of access to the all-important secondary mortgage market and stiff fines, along with other penalties.

            The threat was codified in a 20-page “Policy Statement on Discrimination in Lending” and entered into the Federal Register on April 15, 1994, by the Interagency Task Force on Fair Lending. Clinton set up the little-known body to coordinate an unprecedented crackdown on alleged bank redlining.
            The edict — completely overlooked by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission and the mainstream media — was signed by then-HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros, Attorney General Janet Reno, Comptroller of the Currency Eugene Ludwig and Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, along with the heads of six other financial regulatory agencies.

            “The agencies will not tolerate lending discrimination in any form,” the document warned financial institutions.
            So this is where it all started. In 1994. When the government pressured lenders to qualify the unqualified. To put people into houses they couldn’t afford. Or else.

  5. As everyone should know, Jack Welch, former CEO of GE, is a supporter of Mitt Romney. His “tweet” was an obvious political rant.

    The jobs reports come from independent sources, and would be incredibly difficult to be manipulated by anyone in the Executive or Legislative branches. These same sources have been reporting this data for DECADES without anyone questioning the integrity of the reports.

    It’s sad that MDN had to post this article, but even more sad that our fellow Apple brethren really showed their ignorance by their comments, concerning a mythical political conspiracy. Perhaps one day, they will grow up and see the world as it really is (fingers crossed).

    1. The past may have seen numbers that were credible and impartial. These numbers are so far out of whack it leads to serious questions of data manipulation, horrible sampling methods, direct tampering, or some other form of bias.

      The media is in the tank for Obama and will never investigate this issue, we will likely never know for sure. I can assure you if it was a Republican seeking reelection we’d be hearing reports from every major organization going through the underwear drawer of everyone involved with this labor sampling.

      You can talk all you want about tin foil hat conspiracies, but you have offered no explanation how 100 new jobs became 800 thousand.

      1. Yawn. So the stick market crashed and Silverhawk cherry picked a number right after a crash and another number a few years later, as if the stock market has never recovered before.

        I know it’s hard to believe but there was a stock market more than 100 years ago, and if you track the growth of the market since the 1920s through the great market crash and Great Depression, include world war 2, the Cold War, the Vietnam War, Jimmy Carter through Reagan, Bush, and Clinton, you’d find an average growth of around 11-12% per year.

        The 2000s were a relative anomaly with the twin crashes of the 2000 Internet bubble and the 2008 housing bubble bursting in close proximity. Being attacked on September 11, 2001 and fighting 2 wars had an impact on us. Wars are costly. Unfortunately some seem to think that not defending yourself is free, when it is not. Case in point, the nearly unguarded embassy in Libya which liberal media outlets don’t want to talk about.

          1. Try this Silverhawk. Go back and measure the performance of the stock market 3 1/2 years out from every crash. You won’t find anything extraordinary about the “recovery” under Obama.

            1. Points?? Are you seriously using a non scaled method to make an argument? You can’t be serious.

              So if you factor out inflation and the overall growth of the stock market and GDP and ignore all relevant facts you can make a remarkably and laughably skewed argument. I am not a market analyst but it does not take a super heinous to know if you want to make any kind of valid historical argument you need to use some form of scaling to make any comparisons remotely valid.

              You can’t seriously be that obtuse you must know this, thus my only valid conclusion is you are willfully trying to spin.

            2. Super heinous? Autocorrect to the rescue!

              Meant super genius.

              I checked out that site, nice catch and by the way it does give plenty of examples in %.

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