“The flaws with Apple Maps and previously with Apple’s voice recognition software, Siri, reveal some deep flaws with Tim Cook’s work as CEO,” Peter Cohan writes for Forbes. “You might think that Tim Cook is doing a spectacular job. After all, since taking over as CEO on August 24, 2011, Apple stock has risen 74%, and its revenues and profits have soared 66% and 85% in the last year.”
“But since the Apple Maps fiasco, Apple has lost $30 billion in stock market value, reports The Guardian,” Cohan writes. “At the core of this loss in value may well be the gap between the technical reality of a new product and the way that product is sold to the public. Plenty of technologies are imperfect when they are first sold to the public. It appears as though Apple Maps had so many flaws — I pointed out its six most epic fails – that Apple could be rotting from the stem down.”
Cohan writes, “How so? Either Cook was not aware of the problems with Apple Maps — in which case he is showing that he does not care about the quality of the products that Apple makes. Or Cook knew about the flaws and decided to launch the iPhone 5 anyway. And if he did the latter, the messaging Cook used to describe the product set expectations that were far better than the reality. And one of the most basic principles of marketing anything is that it is far better to exceed diminished expectations than to fall short of exuberant ones.”
“The core of Apple’s problem may be an Apple executive by the name of Scott Forstall,” Cohan writes. “As former Apple executive Jean-Louis Gasse pointed out, Forstall was behind the flawless Apple Maps demo and those flowery adjectives. And Forstall’s demo of the buggy Siri ‘seemed not only to understand every question he put to it, but to have a snappy answer. It has not worked so well in the wild, at least not for me,’ according to Fortune’s Phillip Elmer-Dewitt.”
Read more in the full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews readers too numerous to mention individually for the heads up.]
Related articles:
People are calling for this Apple executive’s head over half-baked Maps – September 30, 2012
Apple lost without Steve Jobs? This week spotlighted that Apple without Jobs is a different company – September 15, 2012
An Apple CEO-in-waiting, Scott Forstall, sells 95% of his company shares – May 2, 2012
Scott Forstall, the Sorcerer’s Apprentice at Apple – March 9, 2012
Who gives a fucking shit about imaginary market value? Stop feeding these fucking trolls.
Exactly.
Plus this is really starting to look like Google is pulling the strings of many bloggers to create a story out of a non-story.
Be ready for the mother of all FUD campaigns. This just might get bigger than anything Microsoft ever tried to pull off.
Remember, Google looks to lose millions if not billions of dollars because of Apple. Think they are going to just stand aside and let it happen?
Agreed
I agree. Lost $30 billion? Where? Point at it, or it didn’t happen? FUD campaign in progress.
Agreed. iPhone 5 sold better in the first weekend than the 4S before it. Maps would have only been a problem for Cook and Apple market value if iPhone 5 had tanked. Given the sales figures and the reviews, it didn’t.
Also, what are the chances that Apple will recover that value and then some in the near future? Pretty good, I’d say.
This clown wants to tell Apple about marketing? JFC.
Last, the whole Forstall thing is bizarre – he’s the problem because his demos did well?!?! WTF?!?! This seems to me to point out that a) while Maps does have problems, it is not as error-prone as some in the tech media are portraying it and b) anecdotal evidence is useless for a device with such large unit sales.
Launching iOS6 and the iPhone5 are not one and the same. What a moran!
Please, people. If we’re going to call people “idiots,” “on crack,” and “morons,” we’ve got to learn how to spell!
Officially on crack.
after almost a year i have yet to see anyone use Siri in the real world. completely worthless product except for maybe answering emails and texts while driving
and at least for me Maps is a huge improvement over the iOS 5 version
I use it all the time for things like “Where’s the nearest gas station” or “Where’s the nearest Costco” .. I find it super handy.
I use Siri almost Daily.
looking up a phone number/address, dictation, random things. It just saves time.
I love Siri. As entertainment. Unfortunately, I’ve had to resort to Google for accuracy- restaurants, locations, etc.
So far…
I use it daily for all types of to do lists for work, as well as for search and many other things. I personally find it really useful. Must be the geek side of me.
i actually used to drive out to the farthest costco i could find just because it was less crowded and had open parking spaces
as far as things like gas stations there are so many in NYC i just stop by the first one. or if i wanted the cheapest gas i would have the cheap gas app on my phone
i equate it with google now. so much of what it does i can do my self, its useless for me. or its more efficient to use an app
It’s good for reminders, notes, and alarms. I use it daily.
If you can’t tell that “costco” and “gas station” are just examples, you’re a fucking idiot. I’m sure there’s more things than costcos and gas stations that you’d like to find.
Once, I asked Siri how many days it’s been since nine eleven, and the answer popped right up. That’s astounding to me. I didn’t say “nine eleven two thousand one”, I just said “nine eleven”, and she knew exactly what I was talking about. That really floored me.
I use Siri everyday pretty much. Specially launching apps now. Ask it to read my text while I’m working through my headsets. Very useful.
Are you insane? Everyone I know uses Siri constantly.
Well, then I guess you don’t get out much. Many people who I know and work in our Fortune 50 company use Siri all the time.
I use Siri constantly and I know plenty of folks who also use it.
I’m with all the others saying you’re nuts. I use Siri all the time, as does my wife. We just don’t ask it anything particularly complicated.
Examples of types of things we commonly ask Siri:
“Call X”
“Where’s the nearest gas station?’
“Take me to [point of interest].”
“Show me how to get home.”
“How many ounces are in a cup?”
Now, Siri’s messed up for me on occasion. It forgot how my wife’s name is pronounced. It could never answer the simple question “How far is it from Washington DC to Baltimore?”
But please — Can the hyperbolic bullsh*t. Just because a product isn’t perfect doesn’t make it “completely worthless”.
——RM
@LordRobin – give your wife’s entry in your Address Book an easy nickname in the Nickname field. Siri may be better at using that.
Hmm. This sounds like a great idea to make things easier for Siri. And a great way to end up sleeping on the couch if I choose the wrong name. 😀
——RM
I just got Siri trading up from my iPhone 4 to 5 and my iPad 3 and I love it. It’s like a lot of technologies where the worth is variable to it’s worth to the individual user. What’s important to some of us means diddly to others. Respectfully it doesn’t make it worthless, except to you. It’s sort of like being the first transporter and you can only transport very small inanimate objects whereas someday you will be able to beam a complete human being. (Sorry for the Star Trek reference.)
I love Siri and use it daily. “Wake me up at 7” “What time will the sun set today?” “Who’s older, Oprah or Madonna?” “Remind me to call mom tomorrow morning” “Add milk, eggs and honey to my grocery list” “Show me Jimmy John’s on a map” “Which is bigger, the Moon or Mars?” “How many days till Election Day?” “Start Pandora” “Read me that text” “Text John tell him I’ll be there in 20 minutes” “How did the Vikings do?” “When was the movie Gremlins 2: The New Batch released?” “Remind me to buy water when I get to wal-mart” “Give me directions home” “What time is it in Cairo?” “What will the high temperature be on Thursday?”
These are all questions I have asked Siri in the last few days, just off the top of my head. I’m sure there’s more. If you’re not using Siri, it’s your loss. She works almost flawlessly for me, but then again I’m a white guy with a standard Midwestern accent and I don’t mumble. I’m sure there are quite a few of my coworkers (Chinese guys, I’m looking at you) who Siri would have trouble understanding…since I can barely understand them most of the time, what chance does poor Siri have?
Forbes is one of the biggest anti-Apple rags out there as of late.
Stock value is irrelevant in short terms idiots!!!
Remember when ANALyst said that Steve Jobs lost a fortune because Apple stock lost about 15%? How high it was when he die? He had 3 times more value.
Real investors put their money in terms of 4 years or more, not in 2 days.
What the so called ANALyst fail to see, is that for every Billion apple has lost for the maps application, Google will lose a lot more for not being able to advertise in iOS platform.
Yet another bashing at Apple.
I’ve used the maps app since upgrading to IOS6 and I seriously cannot see what all this FUD is about.
The problem with success is that when you’re at the bottom everyone supports you but when you get to the top everyone hates you.
All this apple bashing is seriously passing me off..I’m getting so close to not reading any of this crap at all and deleting all my news feeds and apple news bookmarks.
LEAVE THE FUCKING COMPANY ALONE AND LET APPLE SORT THIS OUT.
And Scott and Tim should NOT be sacked for this over reaction. All the people I speak to that moan about how bad maps is don’t even use it.
Hell, the main ones that are moaning don’t even own a fucking iPhone so how the hell do they know how bad or good it is????
My advice, use the app everyday for a month and then provide constructive comments to improve the app.
The only thing I would change in your post is this:
“when you’re at the bottom everyone supports you” — unless you’re Apple, who are laughed at and ground into the dirt with hobnail boots by everyone except an irrelevant group of indoctrinated fools;
“but when you get to the top everyone hates you” — if by “everyone” you mean the malicious cretins writing the hate blogs and slanted “news” stories and their twisted followers.
Its really annoying for MDN to perpetuate this tripe.. Even without comment.. When iPhone 5 sales continue go through the roof and Apple reports the next quarter sales, Most analysts will be caught with their pants down worrying about Maps, or Siri, both of which work relatively well, and are being improved with every release.
But isn’t it about execution? Why,since Apple screwed up, is it suddenly about sales figures. I thought Apple only concentrated on the product not stock price? Don’t all the rabid fanboys here gush about Apple not caring about stock value but bringing the perfect product to market? I’m no fanboy. I’m no troll. I love my Apple stuff. Have forever. But as a user and investor I expect better. Not perfection but more than this sloppy execution with maps and Siri. At least Siri was released as a beta. Maps should have been also. This is a real deal mistake no matter how badly fanboy’s underware are in a twist. Don’t try to make excuses. Other than some fanboys here, everyone else thinks its an issue. A real PR issue. And that’s expensive. And MDN doesn’t need to say anything as the article speaks for itself. What? You think MDN should cater to Apple fans with no objectivity? No. MDN should cater to nobody. As a lifelong Apple fan, but not fanboy, I think MDN has become more objective as compared to the past. And that’s good.
“Why,since Apple screwed up, is it suddenly about sales figures.”
We’re pointing out sales numbers because they indicate Apple didn’t screw up. The hysteria about Maps is an invention of trolls and pundits, not something that actual consumers care about.
If it were, we’d be seeing a dip in iPhone 5 sales. We aren’t.
“I’m no troll. ”
Oh yes you are. See how many times you threw around the word “fanboy” just trying to bait people.
Precisely, @GM. GM attempts to sound reasonable while tossing out the same ad hominem attacks that he claims do not apply to him.
GM, I believe that it is fair to say that the vast majority of Apple fans believe that Apple could and should have done a better job in rolling out this particular product. Where we appear to differ is in our opinion of the severity of the problem and the manner in which Apple should address it.
If you weren’t such a Mac fan (not a fanboy, despite the fact that you “love your Apple stuff”), then I might think that you were trolling for Android by attempting to instigate a public reaction that would get Forstall and others fired just to screw up Apple. If given the choice between letting Apple take care of this and following your suggestions, I’m going with the veteran Apple managers.
I just don’t agree with your recommendations and vitriol. You are blowing things out of proportion to the extreme. And I am not going to change my mind just because you happen to be highly and frequently vocal with your viewpoint.
Well, you are after all the King. So you must be right.
No.im no troll. But I don’t hide like you either. Pusscakes.
See Joy of Tech today – sums it up perfectly!
This is just crap. Pure crap. I read the title wondering how Apple lost $30 bil. I never imagined the author would be so lame to cite the drop in stock price. And then to question Cook’s suitability as CEO?! The Maps decision was made years ago when Jobs was around. This was a long term decision that was bounded by Apple’s 5 year deal with Google. Apple had no real options. Look Google screwed Apple and now Apple is doing what they need to do. Furthermore, this whole map thing has been blown out of proportion by a dysfunctional media that cultivates stories that are negative to Apple.
Guy is an idiot ….. Using Siri to input text ….. Dummy
#1 Apple has never given a shit about their stock price – the “professional investors” have made sure it has next to nothing to do with how the company is actually doing.
#2 the map “debacle” is a PR problem. Forstall can learn to tone it down – he’s trying too hard to be Jobs and over promising. From my experience so far, both maps and siri are friggin fantastic. I also happen to live in a major US metropolitan area, not a small town in Canada, so I imagine I’m getting better service than most.
I’d say the “pundits” need to take a chill pill, but those hit whores need their hits…
I’m in Canada, and Maps works well here too. This past weekend it guided my family to a fishing lodge near Algonquin Park – remote by urban standards. The only glitch was that it named one road wrong, but the direction to turn onto it was 100 percent correct. Turns out the road USED to be called the name Maps knows, so I sent in the correction. Not a big problem at all.
That’s good to hear k. I can only see this app getting better over time, in my view it’s already 1000 times better than having google on my phone.
For Pete’s sake. 1 in almost a million apps. Idjit.
I had a bit of trouble with the new Maps until I dinked around with it — took 5 minutes, just needed to learn how to use it. Sheesh. Talk about idiotic exaggerated hyperbole.
Oh, and it’s better than the Google Maps app.
I don’t think so.
C’mon Tim, ya gotta do better. You’re in charge! As the article clearly states, you either didn’t know or you did. So youre guilty in either case. And releasing maps as a product truly flawed is unconscionable. No excuse. Don’t know if Forstall is a problem but I do know who is supposed to be running everything. Let’s go Apple!
I’m still not thrilled by Cook as CEO. The stock has not nearly doubled because he was driving the train. If he were COO for the past 12 months and my granny were CEO the stock would be right where it is today.
Sure, stable is better than unstable. Cook is definitely stable. But I worry about that. His apology, like his last “Open Letter” was terribly written. Seriously, why not use the word “customer” in every sentence instead of just the first 4. Just inelegant, rushed, overly obsequious and frankly tone-deaf.
He ought to have said Apple’s Maps are insanely great with over 99% accuracy right out of the box. The system is constantly improving and we’re providing our users functionality they never had before. We’re aware of areas of incorrect data and we are pouncing on them with vigorous attention as soon as we learn of them. Thank you for helping us create something wonderful here. We will not let you down.
I hope Cook has a 2-year plan of stability in mind, afterwhich he will step back and give over the reins. I don’t think mind-bending, revolutionary, or awe-inspiring are in Cook’s DNA. They’re just not.
Thats the problem.
No. Granny might have released maps as a beta somewhere down the road when it was better.
Writers are out in force like a feeding frenzy on CHUM spewed out by the classless troll feeding websites. It’s expected. Fortunately most Aple consumers are smart enough to realize that all this noise are from fake journalist and most iHater/Android/Google/Cloners/CheapFreetard losers.
This article is the very quitessence of FUD, written by an idiot masquerading as a technology expert.
The front page of the iPhone App Store has a link to mapping apps. Apple’s really in damage control mode. Whether they need to be is the question.
——RM
Yep, and I tell you what – I like the way they have only shown the 3 apps mentioned by Tim Cook :))
And google is nowhere to be seen :)))))))
Do a search for maps on the app store and there’s over 6000 search results.
I just love how subtle apple us at destroying FUD – it’s the approach of a company in total control. :))))
My maps is working great. I’m sure any issues will be resolved quickly as Apple always does.
Dumber than a bag of rocks.
Fellow Apple fans. I too am tired of the crap that Forbes puts out and the NYT is not far behind them. Let’s help Apple improve Maps and put this media crap fest behind us, there is a great article @ MacWorld: How to report problems in iOS 6’s Maps – http://www.macworld.com/article/2010577/how-to-report-problems-in-ios-6s-maps.html
Also where is the sharp editorial of this article from MacDailyNews? I miss the sharp criticism and not letting them get way with this….
FYI – I use Siri on a daily basis, and I used Maps over the weekend several times…. no problems and very accurate for navigation directions. Love it!!
As much as I love Apple, if Tim Cook is making these grievous mistakes, then maybe it’s time to consider a new CEO. After all, Apple did go through several CEOs and managed to survive. So we’ll survive another turnover. Jony Ive, maybe? 🙂
I asked Siri if Peter Cohan was an idiot.
Siri replied, “He graduated in the lowest quartile of his high school class.”
I don’t understand why there’s all this “Siri is such a failure” talk going around lately. Siri was and is not a failure, it’s the signature feature or the 4S and the 5, and it works great. It’s so useful, so much easier than typing stuff in by hand.
Every time I read an article like this I recall the old rubric about critics they are like eunuchs
They can talk about it but they can’t do it
not as 1) the map fiasco was more Steve Jobs fault than Cook or Forstall. Read the history. When iPhone was being developed maps wasn’t even an integral part of it, when it was decided to go maps they had a simple Apple version and then Jobs who absolutely trusted Schmidt decided to go into partnership full out with Google. If Jobs had started apple maps seriously (i.e if he could see Schmidt for the Mole) Apple’s map experiment would have started in 2007 (or even years earlier). By today they would have a pretty good maps app. Instead Cook and Forstall had to scramble (Apple finally had no choice: Google did not give turn by turn nav to iOS for years, did not have proper mapping for CHINA which is apple’s biggest growth area etc… ).
It was Jobs (genius that he was) blind spot that caused the map issue in the first place.
2) Cook and Forstall has helped make Apple billions and helped stock investors enjoy incredible stock growth. Under Cook Apple has won the industrial supply chain award year after year and knocked low cost competitors like Dell to the ground (remember the old days of expensive Macs vs Pcs?) , Forstall’s in charge of iOS which alone makes more money than Msft or Google. IPhone alone without iPad alonex
3) the Maps is not as bad as the hype make it out to be. The are lots posting around (like Fandroids) who pretend to use the Maps to blast apple (one researcher checking antennagate postings found by comparing registered user names to android fan sites, 50% of those he could verify posting as iPhone users were fandroids). I’m not saying there are no legitimate problems but it is overblown just like ANTENNAGATE.
the antennagage iP4 which the press lambasted which Consumer Reports say ‘do not recommend’ in REALITY had a 1.7 % return rate (much lower than many competitor phones), won the J.D powers award for customer satisfaction from a poll of thousands of phone users (beating all the Androids, Symbians, BBs etc), was the best selling smartphone and had the highest (from various polls ) retention rate (i.e consumers would buy another iPhone) of all smart phones.
The negative press of iP4 did not match the reality of numbers and I suspect iP5 would be the same.
4) 30 billion sounds like a lot but percentage wise it’s not such a big deal.
Apple has sold something like over 365 million iOS devices, mabye analysts should be more concerned for Google whose largest growth area is mobile and who makes TWICE as much money off IOS than Andriod, Symbian, Blackberry etc COMBINED has just lost big chunk of their mobile revenue and for the future.
sorry long post above, various typos including intro line, no edit feature. I won’t correct typos as the meanings I think is still clear.
Using the Maps App in most of the south part of Western Canada.
The roads are laid out in a grid of one mile by one mile. In plan, there should be a cross road every mile as you drive east-west and a cross road every mile as you drive north-south. The roads are all named by using the grid numbers.
In reality, some roads are paved, some are graveled, some are one lane dirt tracks, some mysteriously and abruptly end and some don’t exist at all.
Apple’s Maps App shows all of the highways, most of the paved grid roads, about 1/3 of the gravel roads and none of the dirt tracks.
Google Maps had all the roads including the dirt tracks.
If you aren’t a city dweller, in Western Canada, you’re probably not on the map.
Forstall is also the one who was the leader of the team which designed iOS and convinced Steve Jobs that iOS was better than the iPod OS being changed into a phone OS. So I think he knows a thing or two about software design and use.
Apple’s problems with Maps lies more in the data provided to Apple than fundamental flaws in the app. The 3D code seems to have a bug which melts bridges around the Hoover Dam, but that ‘s easily fixable and is actually kinda cool. Maybe they should just call it the Salvador Dali effect (If they had done that prior to release, people would be talking about how cool it was!).
Maps will be fine given some time to fix the issues. I like that the maps and turn-by-turn load much faster than Google Maps.
please, i checked and google maps has the same road melting bug on that same road
its like i tell my wife, don’t read the internet. most of the hysteria is by paid bloggers who get paid what to write or just need a hysteria for page hits. just like antennagate.
Okay, so now Apple SAVES itself $30 Billion by having the stock valuation reduced so it can buy back stock for less, correct?
It’s the right-hand knowing what the left-hand is doing thing.
“…in which case he is showing that he does not care about the quality of the products that Apple makes.” obvious troll. ignore.
Considering the flaws, inaccuracies, and stretching of the truth to the breaking point, Cohan is either
1. Dose not care about his work and should be fired.
2. Is incompetent, unable to do basic unbiased reporting and should be fired.
3. Is on the take, has no journalistic values and should be fired.
4. Is a hit whore looking for clicks and should get a raise.
5. Or is on drugs, in which case I want to know what he is on.
Oh, I get it! -> For-BS (Forbes)
Talk about an overblown bunch of BS!!!! Who used google maps to navigate anyhow?!! I used TomTom! Full maps on flash memory chips and voice turn by turn! WTF is the problem?!! I like the bold move and love the new maps!!! Unlike the compulsive pissers and moaners, I see the good in a flawed product toward what will ultimately be awesome like everything else Apple does! It’s a FREE APP!!! iOS6 is FREE!!!! The entitlement society is taking over! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!!! Sad!
Based on this article’s flawed reasoning, two other things should have happened:
1. Steve Jobs should have been fired the day after antenna gate broke…
And
2. Microsoft should have gone bankrupt the day after Vista was released….
Cohan is an ass. This “$30 billion” stuff is silly. Eric Savitz covers it here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/10/01/bad-math-apples-map-issue-is-not-a-30b-fiasco/
Peter Cohan is an idiot. And a trickster. Comparing percentages to hard dollars is like comparing apples to tractors. And he Evan misquotes then.
anyone who moves a red cent on this dumber than a bag of dicks article is dumb as a box of hair.
Had a few minutes to use an iPhone 4s with Maps.
Living north of Bangkok, Thailand, I was surprised at the accuracy of maps for my local neighborhood.
ATM’s, Shops, Car-dealers, all correctly done.
Maps look very good, though indeed the satellite pictures are lesser quality, more sepia color than google-maps.
But the speed is amazing. It builds up maps (even on the dreadfully slow networks here) very very fast and fluently.
I’m sure there’s mistakes, but the first impression…very good, nothing like the big FUD campaign that’s raging around the web.
The problem with SIRI is that it can at times be brilliant and then the next day it can’t understand the same phrases or words.
It will mangle simple words, so much so, that you’d like to fling your phone.
Add any noise to the equation and SIRI performs even worse.
Plus to me, there seems to be a 1 to 1 correlation between needing SIRI to work and its propensity to fail.
The stock decline has nothing to do with Maps! The whole market is in decline and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise