Microsoft joins Apple in publicly supporting same-sex marriage

Microsoft General Counsel & Executive Vice President, Legal & Corporate Affairs, Brad Smith has posted the following via The Official Microsoft Blog:

Today, Microsoft is joining other Northwest employers Concur, Group Health, Nike, RealNetworks and Vulcan Inc. in support of Washington State legislation recognizing marriage equality for same-sex couples. We believe that passing this bill would be good for our business and good for the state’s economy. I wanted to take a few moments to explain why.

At Microsoft, we pride ourselves on our products and services, our brand, and our global reach. But unquestionably, our employees are our greatest asset.

To be successful, it’s critical that we have a workforce that is as diverse as our customers. Every day, the national and global economies are becoming more diverse. The lifeblood of a business is its ability to understand and connect with its customers. We’re no exception. Now more than ever, the most effective workforce is a diverse workforce.

While some of our employees literally grew up around the corner, others have come from every state and almost 150 countries around the world. They reflect virtually every background in the country and on the planet. They bring their creativity to work, and they put it to good use in developing new products and serving our customers. There simply is no substitute for their diverse backgrounds, perspectives, skills and experiences.

Inclusiveness is therefore a fundamental part of our values, and is integral to the company’s business success.

This means it’s important to go beyond simply forbidding discrimination; we strive to actively promote diversity, equality and inclusion in our workplace. In 1993, Microsoft became the first Fortune 500 company to provide same-sex domestic partnership benefits. For almost two decades, we’ve benefited from this support and the resulting contributions of our LGBT employees.

In addition to corporate policies supporting diversity and equality, we strive to engage in a thoughtful manner in public discussions on issues that have a significant impact on our employees and our business. For example, Microsoft supported legislation in Washington State prohibiting employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, as well as legislation expanding domestic partnership rights.

Our support today for Senate Bill 6239 and HB 2516, Washington’s marriage equality legislation, builds upon our previous work in this area.

As other states recognize marriage equality, Washington’s employers are at a disadvantage if we cannot offer a similar, inclusive environment to our talented employees, our top recruits and their families. Employers in the technology sector face an unprecedented national and global competition for top talent. Despite progress made in recent years with domestic partnership rights, same-sex couples in Washington still hold a different status from their neighbors. Marriage equality in Washington would put employers here on an equal footing with employers in the six other states that already recognize the committed relationships of same-sex couples – Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York and Vermont. This in turn will help us continue to compete for talent.

While Microsoft’s support for marriage equality is motivated by respect for our employees, we also respect the views of those who may not agree with our position. For example, we have many highly valued and highly successful employees who hold a wide range of views on this and many other issues. We’re not asking anyone to change their views to conform to the company’s position.

We also recognize that marriage has meaning as both a civil and a religious institution. Like the marriage equality bill passed last year in New York State with bipartisan and business support, this bill preserves religious freedom in Washington’s churches while ending discrimination in Washington law.

Like the New York bill, we believe Washington’s legislation should be passed into law. It will make our state and our economy stronger.

– Brad Smith, Microsoft General Counsel & Executive Vice President, Legal & Corporate Affairs

Source: The Official Microsoft Blog

MacDailyNews Take: Microsoft prides themselves on their products and services? Since when?

As for the main topic, we’re a little faklempt… Talk amongst yourselves… We’ll give you a topic: In the last U.S. presidential election, neither Biden nor McCain nor Obama nor Palin supported “same-sex marriage.” Discuss.

Related articles:
National Organization for Marriage to Steve Jobs: You’ve become Big Brother (with video) – December 17, 2010
Christian Group asks Apple to reinstate pulled ‘Manhattan Declaration’ iPhone app – November 30, 2010
California’s ‘No on 8’ same-sex marriage campaign models ads on Apple’s ‘Get a Mac’ commercials – November 01, 2008
Apple donates $100,000 to fight same-sex marriage ban in California (Proposition 8) – October 24, 2008


    1. OK, here’s one – GOP member, NRA member, and likely whatever else you think “defines” a Republican.

      And I support this measure.

      Gosh, aren’t you surprised?

      Now, before you consider going down that road, I’m straight, married with 3 great kids.

      Couple of points to ponder, MDN readers:
      1. Not everything is left or right, liberal or conservative, or I’m right and you’re wrong
      2. …MDN…could you please tell me what this article served, other that potential ad hits? There is no pro-Apple hype in this. If anything, the “MS prides itself…” line is funny – and what I enjoy about MDN. Stop the bating, unless it is pro-Apple, anti-winter/samdung/rim/etc..and for goodness sake, pleeeeease get back to reporting on how many times larger Apple is versus Dell. Until I die, that will never, ever get old.

      1. You sort of described me. Except for having children.

        But I agree, this is just barely Apple Daily Information. So why bait your readers so obviously.

        And just because no candidate came out in support of same sex marriage doesn’t mean it isnt time they did.

        Think of it this way. The government is effectively telling you who you can, and can’t marry. Gender, race, religion could all be argued as being the basis to who can marry who. And the argument is silly. It is none of your business who arrived who ( ok let’s make sure thus gets in the argument, everyone involved must be a CONSENTING ADULT. No goats, children or lawn furniture)

        1. why? Why must they be ADULTS? Why can’t a 17,16 or 15 year old? I know a 13 yo who is mature…
          In coming years you will be called a bigot and accused of discrimination if you hold to these views that ‘only between adults’.

          Moral decay – the reason is the standard you compare to has been replaced. Homosexuality is wrong because God says it is.

          1. If God says its wrong, why does it occur naturally in nature?

            Stop foisting your religious bullshit on everyone else. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion, if so desired.

            1. Oh yes that’s right we are the same as animals. So we should be allowed to murder who we like, rape, incest – GOOD ARGUMENT!!

              God draws a distinction between humans and animals and this can be seen clearly if you look. No animal has government.

              Sure God gave you life do what you want with it. Your choice your consequence. Marriage is between man and woman by definition of THE ONE WHO INVENTED MARRIAGE.

            2. Homosexualiy is not a “natural” occurrence. It’s a combination of genetic mutation and behavioral manipulation. There are perversions of sexual desire, too, of course, as deviants created excuses for using boys for gratification. Read a damn book and try to think outside you box, doofus. You’re as bad as those people who believe EVERYTHING in the bible is literal.

            3. Actually, V-Trian is right. On so many levels.

              In nature, God’s Nature, (if you are so inclined) there are over 150 species found to be in committed life ling, monogamous, same sex relationships. (Species, not individual animals). It occurs most often in higher primates and those with higher intelligence.

              Chimpanzees, Monkeys, Orangutans, Bonobos, Gorillas, All the big cats: Lions, Tigers, as well as Dolphins, and Penguins.

              Feel free to do some checking on your own.

            4. @blufinpro even if there are cases in the wild that show this (I am unaware of it but haven’t researched), why does that mean humans should follow suit? As stated animals rape, murder and have multiple partners too – should those be allowed?

          2. The Bible says it’s wrong in the same respect is says eating shellfish is wrong. So I am currently crafting a bill to change the constitution to declare that eating shellfish illegal in the United States. Considering animals are part of this argument and for some reason can be held to the same moral standard because their are, ya know, able to think cognitively and sign legal documents, all aquatic creatures with in seven miles of the continental US will also be healed accountable if they eat ANY shellfish. Cause GOD says its WRONG!

            Oh yeah and NO GAY DOLPHINS ALLOWED EITHER!!!
            Of course dolphins would NEVER be caught participating in such lascivious acts against gods will!

            1. @samiam you really should actually read the Bible if you are going to try to teach others about it. The Bible explicitly condemns homosexuality for all regardless of race or desire. He says it is disgusting.
              Shellfish he said for the Jews was wrong.
              Interestingly you can choose to ignore both – God gave you free will – but the consequences are on your own head.

            2. Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”

              Lev. 11:10
              “But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you.”


            3. Like I said look at who it is addressed to. ISRAELITES

              So then if you keep reading you will find in Romans:
              (this is written to Romans – Greeks Gentiles – everyone who is not Jew get it)?

              21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused.22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
              24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies.25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
              28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents.31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy.32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

              And you will also find food laws to clarify the shellfish and unclean foods. But if you are simply trying to pick verses to prove your point you won’t discover the truth.
              “If you search for me with all of your heart you will find me”

            4. The Bible is a collection of books that tell stories, not dissertations on observed events. God was created by man in the image of man and the irresponsible try to make it something else.

            5. @ M Lindlay – try reading n researching the Bible you’ll see a whole lot more to it. Verifiable and hard to ignore no matter your prejudice

          3. No who on earth keeps saying that I say it is wrong. I’m infallible, omnipotent, omniscient and can do no wrong. I created you folks and if some of you want to spend your lives with others of your sex, so be it. It does not affect anyone else except in their own minds. I created you folks and gave you lots of leeway in how you comport yourselves. I must say, it’s pissing me off that some of you keep wanting to push morals that I did NOT create onto others. Basically, Mind Your Own Fsking Business. Or I will smite you from this earth!

            1. False god:
              – doesn’t know what He has stated in the past.
              – doesn’t recognize the actions of people affect other people (in this case the especially vulnerable)
              – can’t spell
              – swears for lack of composure & vocabulary
              – uses CAPITALS to emphasize a false point
              – threatens to smite…

              “have no others gods before me”….

          4. I asked God if he really thinks homosexuality is wrong or if this whole thing is just a big misunderstanding, but he was too busy chillin’ Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny to answer me. Damnit.

          5. because only legal adults can enter into legally binding contracts. The legal age of consent has changed back and forth in the past centuries. But contract law is clear that only those who can enter into binding contracts can be legally married.

          6. But God isn’t Microsoft and Microsoft and millions of us couldn’t care less that there are 2 (two) verses in the Bible about homosexuality and you think that is absolute. What you think God says is irrelevant to the issue and the debate about what Washington state should do. Your religion should inform YOU. So if you think marrying someone of your gender is wrong, I’d advise against. Microsoft and Apple think it’s OK. Are they entitled to their opinion? Are we entitled to yours? Yes and no, in that order.

            1. Is Washington state law based on moral rights / wrongs? Was this originally based on scripture? Written by people who upheld the moral and spiritual absolutes of scripture?
              If yes, then you SHOULD care about what I am saying.

              Even if not, you should care that the law is being made that is totally contrary to God’s will. The US has been blessed by God for their adherence to God’s will and if I were a resident there I would be deeply concerned that we were deviating from this so far. Especially when God (as seen clearly in the the Bible) warns clearly of the consequences for the nation and the individual who chooses this path.

  1. Since the State and religion are separated, and “marriage” in the country is civil concept, there is no reason why it should be banned for same sex couples.

    So it should not be “news” whether MS or any company supports this plain logic.

    (Though this does not mean that many significant religions would all of sudden allow homosexual relationship.)

    1. Agree with you but support should only extend for civil marriage. But the government should stay from religion – each religion should have the right to define marriage concept as far as religion concerned in the manner that is consistent with their beliefs.

    2. Marriage has always had a religious context and various religions are always going to level some kind of criticism. So, let’s just make up a new word. Call it “Garriage” or something else. Gay people will have the same rights as straight people and the people against gay marriage won’t have anything else to complain about. Problem solved.

      1. Separate but equal, I tell you!

        Hey, here’s one – I really have a hard time with what you call yourself. Why don’t you just call yourself “Susan”.
        There, problem solved!

        Next issue for the Simpleton’s Court…

        1. I have come around.

          If I have to put up with buying an engagement ring, paying for an enormous wedding, living in a bad marriage, going through a prolonged separation, having a nasty divorce and paying alimony for the rest of my life then by damn, Gays and Lesbians deserve the right to experience all the joys that marriage entails as well.

            1. Who can’t be trusted, Ploth and Greg L? I think you’re right. No one puts that many calories into something like this unless they have a dog in the fight. I’m sure they’re both just closeted gays themselves. With all that pent up sexual frustration I’m sure my bum wouldn’t be safe around either of them.

            2. @praus so the only reason you can see that people would be against something is if they are for it but cowards? Wow – time to look in the mirror I think

      2. No. Problem is not solved. Separate is never equal. By your same logic we should call interracial marriages something else, and those that aren’t religious shouldn’t be able to use the word marriage either.

        Religious people do not ‘own’ the word marriage. No one ‘owns’ words or traditions. Traditions change with an enlightened society. Religious people do not have the right to impose their chosen ideology on the rest of society.

    3. I agree with this. Actually, I think all government forms should have the word “marriage” or “married” removed and replaced with “civil union”. That way, regardless of your sexual orientation, if you want to get hitched, you and your partner go to the courthouse, get a “civil union” license (to make your union legal), then head to whatever church or temple you attend, and get “married”, to satisfy your faith. The institution you are entering into doesn’t change based on what you call it. I know a lot of my conservative compatriots will disagree with me on this, but I don’t see any particularly valid arguments that can hold water if it was done like this.

      1. Yes, it’s very simple – government should remove all references to “marriage” and instead issue “civil union” certificates.

        It’s so simple and would work so well that the government will never do it.

        Problem unsolved.

          1. Really? You might want to look into that.

            Unless by “We The People” you meant the uber-wealthy and large corporations that provide almost all of the campaign donations that allow politicians to keep their cushy jobs.

        1. The liberals in government have been trying to destroy the family for decades and encourage people to have as many children as possible with as many different people as possible and get on as much public assistance as possible. That way the government winds up being the family and all of the family looks to the government for everything. Great system huh. The left wants to destroy the traditional family. One of the many sleazy tactics of liberals. I could care less if gays have their own version of marriage but it should be called Garriage.

          1. or warriage if to women? Lol

            Btw, why don’t the right ban divorce if they are so pro-family? Start with Newt Gingrich! Ha! How about imprisoning the fathers of single mothers’ children? Forced adoption of single mothers’ children? No? So stop with the right wing pro-family garbage. Not ONE Red state is attempting to make divorce illegal or to not recognize divorced done in other states. More right wing bullshit. Microsoft is doing the right thing. Apple out its money where it’s mouth is. HP, Google, IBM will all follow suit.

          2. You realise that Newt Gingrich and his buddy Rush Limbaugh (sworn protectors of the sanctity of marriage) have seven marriages between them right? That’s seven. And at least three of those is the result of adultery. Now that IS sleazy.

            Three time serial adulterers in the family values, sanctity of marriage party ought to have their own version too. It should be called unemployment.

            But alas, no, instead they get standing ovations by the pretend supporters of family values and the sanctity of marriage party.

            So I guess the right is just as hell bent on destroying the traditional family as anyone else. They just pretend otherwise. Unless three marriages as a result of adultery is the new tradition.

        1. Yes, exactly, some religions marry gay people. And some don’t. Take the government out of it. The government (and consequently the people) aren’t discriminating against anyone if all orientations get the same license.

          As to your religion’s opinions… well, that’s up to the religion to decide. Where it should be. And seriously, if you are gay, and your religion doesn’t support gay marriage, is it really YOUR religion? Aren’t you better served by finding one that does? Either way, that’s a personal issue, not a governmental one.

      2. The state has a bigger claim to the word marriage, has done ever since civil marriages and divorces became enshrined in law.

        Why can’t religions shift to using the term Holy Matrimony, which is completely and exclusively theirs, and already used by many denominations?

        1. I was married to my husband by a minister in Holy Matrimony. To are went to think you are so right abou everything. If you were a true Christian you would neither judge nor decalre that you know God’s Will. Jesus’ advice on homosexuality was “Love your neighbor as yourself.”. From what you write, you ain’t too crazy about yourself because when you hate your neighbor, you hate yourself. You sound real lost in man’s words to me.

          1. why do you think I have hatred towards anyone? Just because I believe someone is doing the wrong thing doesn’t make me hate them. In fact why would I warn someone of danger if I hated them? I would simply let them perish. Here I give gentle warnings, opinions & come under personal attach but you think I do this for myself?

            So regarding loving as myself I sincerely hope others would love me like this & warn me of danger if I were unaware of it,

            Regarding do not judge you have taken this totally out of what is meant in scripture by it. This does not mean we just stand idly by while laws are passed that will affect the vulnerable. God is very protective of children & the weak and hates sin & sinners.

            1. Christians are commanded to judge, and Jesus said very plainly ‘my sheep know my voice’. Doing His will is a sign of being in the flock so of course a Christian should know it! Again scripture is clear.

            2. All of what you write is hate-based. This is a legal issue and you go on and on about religious BS. Americans are to be treated equally under the law. The US Constitution neither mentions marriage, sexuality or any other silliness. You wish to have a veto over the personal and intimate lives of others. That is hatred.

            3. None of this comes from hate – this is your judgment / interpretation of what I have written. Love tells the truth… just because we live in a world where the media attacks anyone who doesn’t give into political correctness for fear of offense doesn’t mean someone telling the truth or trying to warn or even help others is hateful.

              But back to the issue – if what you say is true why are the rights of rapists, murderers, pedophiles etc restricted in prison? Why are the proceeds of theft taken off the thief? Is this hatred? Is it a violation of the constitution? Where is your line?

              Whether you like it or not there is a line and the way we decide where it is is our moral level. You cry ‘religious bs’ but so what if I get my morals from God who instituted society? From the place the founding fathers trusted too BTW. Seems all the people here arguing for this bill have shown their own morals are guided by society & the decline is amazing. Just look at all the posts of anger, hatred, abuse. Where have I shown any disrespect or anger towards anyone? But how have I been treated?

              When you base any morals or ‘truth’ on your surroundings you will continue to decline. But if you have a standard that doesn’t change things become clear. In this case the standard being what God says, is correct and best for everyone involved.

            4. Ploth is Microsoft Jesus? This is do typical of religious zealots and bigots. Microsoft, the stake of Washington and gays that want to marry have NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. This is a civil issue. And you your quote below about the sheep shall know his word, there is NOTHING there that resembles a license to judge others. If that were the case than Jesus contradicted himself. If you don’t want to marry a person of the same sex as you, don’t, regardless of reason. That is not sufficient for you to claim that because you think it’s wrong, no one should. Your opposition is seeded by hatred fueled by irresponsible religious dogma. It has no role in a debate on civil issues. Should we put your church membership up for a vote? Maybe we should regulate churches to ensure they stop spreading hatred and evil demonizationa of others? That would be fine with me. Most churches are FOS anyway. Saddleback is at the top of that list in my opinion.

            5. lol talk about hypocritical!

              ‘it’s a civil issue & everyone must have the sames rights’ – ‘except Christians’

              I am saying that this issue is morally wrong. You call that a judgment. So what do you call ‘most churches are FOS’ ‘everything you say is based in hatred’. Are these judgements too?

              Jesus never contradicted himself. My quote about knowing Jesus’ voice was because you were saying Christians wouldn’t claim to know his will! Are you reading what you write?

  2. MDN, what’s to discuss. Times change and society moves forward. And politicians are always the trailing indicator of change, never the leaders. In Washington State at least, this is what the people want and what simple justice demands.

        1. Signing a contract actually extends to some humans who are developmentally disabled but they are still allowed to get married.

          OTOH, my hound is more sentient than sheeple who choose to be led around by their favorite money-grubbing hate-mongering evangelist instead of thinking for themselves.

          Once Xtians stop hating each other and others, then maybe I’ll listen to what they have to say. In the meantime, I’ll continue to like and respect everyone regardless of their color, religion, sexual persuasion, culture, etc etc.

        2. Hey! Border collies deserve to be declared sentient. They can have a vocabulary of over 300 commands and they are self aware. I’ve met stupider people than my border collie.

          She does sleep on my bed at night but our love with one another is unrequited.

            1. I used unrequited love because neither of us has actually made a declaration of our love to each other.

              Our love is also unconsummated, if that’s what you thought I meant the first time.

  3. Good on MicroSoft! They’ve gone from being the asshole, absentee father to the sweet, accepting grandpa.
    Every day that I spend on this planet makes me more and more disappointed in people in general.
    I really think we would be past this already, were it not for the hysteria mongering that is being done to retain votes.
    The human condition seems to dictate that we hate anything we don’t understand (see wintell It doofus for example).
    Us gays (and other-sex minorities) are the last of the acceptable scapegoats in the world.
    What will people do when there is no one left to trample on?

    1. I will answer your question by quoting a comedian (whose name I cannot recall right now):
      “Look at Northern Ireland. In a country with absolutely no [string of ethnic slurs denoting Latinos, Asians, Jews, African-Americans and Slavs] to hate, people *improvise*.

  4. Dear Microsoft, you left Illinois, a civil union state, out of the competitive landscape. Illinois will recognize any civil union or marriage from anywhere in the world of same- or opposite sex couples. It is, I believe, the only state that recognizes civil unions from other states or same-sex marriages in a non-same-sex marriage state. I believe Arizona also recognizes same-sex marriages performed in other states or countries but offers no similar option to its own same-sex couples. Thanks for the support, but you guys need to be more thorough.

  5. Well, isn’t that just *extra* special?

    I’ll start off the festivities of being provocative for the sake of being provocative, and do with a dose of TRUTH®™©

    1) Every single human culture on this planet has its own version of the institution of marriage. Why? Because no matter where you go, it is a covenant by a man to provide resources to a woman he has now saddled (or will soon be saddling) with children, and it is a covenant by the woman to not burden the man with mouths to feed that aren’t his.

    2) Beyond this, modern societies have increasingly more complex rules of inheritance. That meets a critical need because if a woman is going to make herself financially vulnerable by subordinating her personal and selfish desire to secure wealth for rainy days and for retirement, and is to instead devote herself to the upbringing of her children, she should be able to inherit the estate left her by a deceased husband (or one who wanders away chasing tail).

    Both the preceding are all about ensuring a system is in place to ensure the proper upbringing of children. None of it has anything to do with (pronounced with a lisp): making people feel accepted and validated.

    And, while this may invoke howls of protest—having raised two girls and a boy—I can attest first hand that the best environment in which to raise children is in a home with a strong, moral father and a nurturing mother. Once gay couples are awarded equality in marriage, the lesbian couples will be queuing up at the front of the line for their shot at adopting children. Just pardon me all over the place, but since I’ve “been there – done that”, I know that homosexual parents are suboptimal. Given ‘em the less desirable orphans that the ideal heterosexual couples pass over.

    Too much truth? Too bad.

      1. Offended much? If you disagree tell us why…
        Why be rude to another human just because they disagree with you…
        It’s easy to accuse people of discrimination on one hand but just abuse them on the other.

            1. “I know that homosexual parents are suboptimal. Given ‘em the less desirable orphans that the ideal heterosexual couples pass over.”

              In other words… “Fuck you”. See?

              I can draw a picture if you like.

            2. I know some of the common reasons why people turn to homosexuality and can understand sometimes it is easier to have same sex partnerships. This doesnt make it right in Gods eyes or right be made lawful. And the further we come away from Gods way of doing things the more people will be emotionally damaged, act in appropriately towards others and be condemned before God by their actions.

              The anger reaction to people who don’t agree with you is a common one (clearly seen in many posts on this thread) formed from certain beliefs – and will eat you up inside if you don’t deal with the core beliefs behind it. imagine total peace instead? Wow it will change your life in every aspect. Someone loves you and wants you free so much that He sent His son to die on your behalf.

      2. Well, Chrissy. Now ”that” convinced a lot of people why lesbos ought to adopt children: They’re so *loving*. In your case, you’re “into” photography, I see. Paint surprised.

        1. You show such admirable and honest respect for “lesbos”, it’s tough to deny your charm. You had me at hello!
          But I wasn’t making in intellectual point, because you hadn’t actually done so, either. Your cozy little anecdote of your own experience doesn’t speak for all parents. Your perception of The Best Way To Raise a Child is not in a pig’s eye the only road to perfection. How dare you presume to speak for any other parent, much less all parents, much less all gay parents? So really, I just gave you back about the same caliber material as what you put out. I just distilled it down to what you were really saying.
          Looks like you came to start a rumble, and you can have one if you like. Nice night for it.
          Me… I’m just enjoying the snow.


      3. ChrissyOne’s fine and simple communication skills reminds me of a friend of mine during the Vietnam War. He was a corpsman (anatomically male at birth for which he hasn’t yet apologized) in Germany. He was about 20 at the time. He was at a bar and saw a fine young lady and had been talking to her for about five minutes and really seemed to be hitting things off quite well. Then, straight out of the movies, he sensed a “presence” behind him—sorta like when the mile-wide spaceship begins casting a shadow across a city. He turned and there was this hulking, 6-foot-2-inch female with short-cropped hair, plaid shirt with a pack of cigarettes rolled up in one sleeve, and muscles to kick ass. He looked up at her and she down at him. She said six words: “Get the fuck out of here.” And he did. And he survived the war too.

          1. Well, since my point was about how a couple of angry, man-hating lesbians ought not be raising children, and since you obviously never reproduced or raised children (yet magically seem quite expert and opinionated on the subject, which is called “not knowing your ass from a hole in the ground and running off at the mouth nonetheless), your offering that you are 6-2 is germane to any of this… because, why?

            Instead of getting Rosie O’Donnell-rific on us all, have you considered actually saying anything intelligent and thoughtful that might influence others?

    1. I agree with your points but…

      It’s a covenant before God – leave God out and this moral decline and abuse of ‘marriage’ will continue. Multiple marriage partners is next, then age, who knows we may live long enough to see animals included.

        1. yep righto. You’re entitled to your belief but it doesn’t change any facts. Truth is you can only make that claim if you know everything. And once you meet God there’s no denying Him.

      1. …what’s wrong with multiple marriage partners? Many of your biblical figures had more than one wife, and it is an accepted practice in more than one culture on this planet – many of them older than ours.

        Many countries allow civil marriages that leave religion out of it entirely.

        In short, yours is not the only way to run a society, and your god and his followers aren’t the end all and be all of what values are all about.

        I present Newt and his multiple, but serial wives and the pretzel twisting excuses his followers have to tie themselves into in order to excuse him as proof that abuse of marriage is very prevalent even WITH your god and his values present!

        Sorry, but I prefer people like those I know – married for decades – who don’t try to tell others how to live but live exemplary lives themselves without some sky fairy telling them how to do it.

        1. If you read the Bible more than read about it or judged it based on the actions of others, you would be in a better position to comment.

          Many wives and marriage between family members was permitted for original population expansion. Are you saying both should be made law now? What about a woman leaving the camp while having her period? No? Every law made sense and was good for the people.

          Now no one is saying that this is the only way to govern – but the best way. And the further you move away from the way God wants it done, the worse it is for all the people who live under it. Not only in consequences here and now, emotional damage, abuse, crime, but ultimately condemnation from a holy God.

          The people I see who have lived married for decades in holy matrimony, are people with a worldview and faith based in this God and his laws. They have been faithful to God, and each other and raised emotionally healthy and stable children. And they are appalled that homosexuality can be legal let alone marriage between the two being accepted.

          God is no fairy in the sky, but a loving creator who is only too happy to reveal himself to you if you search for him with an honest heart. There is evidence all around you.

    2. +100 – Well said Greg L.

      Heterosexuality is a naturally superior because it is the life-creating dynamic in the universe. Masculinity and Femininity are two opposite polarities who, when joined complement each other so much that, barring medical impairments, new life created. As such it is to be celebrated. The ancient Jewish and Chinese understood it well in their philosophy.

      Homosexuality is not on equal standing with heterosexuality because its sameness makes their joining redundant. It creates nothing, and adds nothing to the universe. To say this is not, “homophobic” or “heterosexist” – it’ simply a fact of life.

      All men and women were created by the heteroseuxal dynamic, even homosexually inclined men and women. Let’s just say that if it wasn’t for heterosexuality, homosexuals wouldn’t exist.

      Therefore, marriage should really be reserved as a celebration of heterosexuality. Sorry if this offends some people, but deep down, despite the brainwashing for the last 30 years, you know it’s true.

      1. Thanks. What the homosexual community want, like many many minorities, is respect. And they feel that by forcing state legislatures to give equal entitlements under the law insofar as marriage of non-reproducers go, they will gain respect from the community.

        It’s a hollow victory, of course. On paper, there is “equality”. But actual respect and admiration from the community would be just as elusive as it had always been.

        More to the point of Microshaft advocating that Washington State recognize marriage for gays, it would be unfortunate if a child needed to be adopted and a lesbian couple had equal standing to a loving heterosexual couple.

        1. You’re such a fucking retard Greg.

          Gays don’t want respect. Gays HAVE respect. Because they earned it themselves, through decades of putting up with the smirking derision of people like you to make their voices heard.

          Gays want to GET MARRIED. Laws currently do not allow them to do so.

          Respect isn’t doled out. It’s earned.

          Try it.

          1. You’re such a fucking retard ChrissyOne.

            Gay’s do too want respect and denying that fact is absurd.

            All you’ve done here is establish that you are a 6-foot-2-inch lesbian who never raised children yet fancies herself as some sort of expert on the matter.

            Then, when faced with arguments that make too much sense and gain traction with others, all YOU can do is throw around the F-bomb and profess how you would like to pop me in the mouth were we to meet.

            And threaten to ruin me in the “popular press.” You best start on that to even the score a little because you’ve already done a thoroughly admirable job of making yourself look just as understanding and nice a person as Rosie O’Donnell, who pretty much no one likes because she exhibits all the anger and hostility you do.

            BTW: Fuck off yourself (again).

            I laugh at you.

          2. And your using MDN to advertise your photography wasn’t a wise move because your photography SUCKS. I have a gay friend who is waaaay better than you. Hell, even straight guy photographers do better work than you. Were I you, I’d unlink your name so as to not go out of your way to highlight your shortcomings as a photographer.

            What do you do when clients don’t want to buy any prints after a photo shoot? Call them “F$*#ing retards” and threaten to pop ‘em in the mouth?

    3. What about raising kids in a home with two strong moral fathers? Or in a home with no father but a strong moral mother? Or are mothers not strong nor moral?

      Since you’ve been there and done that, I have to ask the obvious: You’ve been a gay parent or you’ve been an adopted child of gay parents? And gay parents are suboptimal? Boy, talk to your local social services agency about hetero suboptimal families. Or so-called hetero “strong and moral” fathers who get caught messing around with young lads as coaches or mentors?

      The truth is, you don’t have a leg to stand on and you’re just blowing your own moralistic smoke.

      The truth hurts, doesn’t it?

    4. Conviction, faith and opinion are not synonyms of fact. In fact, no parenting situation is a guarantee of anything. Outcomes are outcomes. Microsoft obviously believes that equality in marriage is good for their company’s competitive position. What you believe is an optimum situation is neither supported in fact nor relevant too their policy. But it was a lovely soapbox rant. And congrats on having been such a great Dad. My closest female friend had a Dad that regularly raped her sisters in the living room after dinner with Mom cleaning up the kitchen (true story) and my longest female friend was abandoned by her father when she divorced, never spoke to her again and has died with debts. She is the only surviving relative and a teacher. Should I judge heterosexual parents based on these true stories? Microsoft and I agree that the reasons against same-sex marriage are not compelling enough to value therefore marriage equality is the appropriate remedy.

  6. Meanwhile a toaster and a coffee maker have become enamored with each other, but when they put their plugs together they don’t function as there creator intended because they both have male ends. Apparently they were not made for each other.

    1. I award you the prize for the lamest comparison of last week.

      Biology and sociology are a tad more complex that you can apparently comprehend.

      Meanwhile a DMac and a brain have become enamored with each other, but when they put their plugs together they don’t function as there creator intended because they both have dead ends. Apparently they were not made for each other.

    2. Dmac, that ain’t nothin…last spring I was awakened in the middle of the night by odd noises emanating from my kitchen cupboard. Armed with my Daisy “Buck” BB gun and machete, I swung open the cupboard doors to the most disgusting, heinous scene I have ever witnessed: Uncle Ben and Mrs. Butterworth intermingled in lascivious embrace, Ben’s swollen white seeds clinging to Mrs. Butterworth’s glistening, gooey buttocks. But the worst was Aunt Jemima just standing there watching, hips akimbo, smirking; her red bandana soaked with the syrup of passion. If it had happened today, I woulda UPS’ed all three of the degenerates to Redmond.

      1. Reminds me of William Faulkner. You deserve a Nobel Prize nomination (for Literature, not for Peace. Screw peace. And screw war. And screw Tolstoy). And I thought you only played chess!

  7. I think the law should also allow the marriage of one man with more than wife. Mormons are clearly discriminated here. It is not more outrageous than same sex marriage.

  8. Wow. I’m kind of disappointed that we’re still having this argument. If Bob and Steve want to get married, why would anyone try to stop them? If God doesn’t want them to get hitched, let God stop them. Unless I’m invited to the wedding, my toilet paper supply is of greater urgency.

    1. We as humans have responsibility to have a structure in place as a community to live morally and ensure safety.
      If God doesn’t want babies murdered let him stop the murderers I care more about my own little secluded world…until it affects me

      Marriage between a man and woman is one of the most far reaching in effect for the vulnerable (children). God doesn’t want it to happen. Those that do and do nothing to stop it will pay the price and have no one to blame.

      1. Ploth, why do we never see you commenting in MDN on anything relating to Apple’s products? You always seem to come out of the woodwork to spout right-wing religious morality crap here.

        It’s so fun, though, to see you reinforce the fact that the bell curve needs to have an insignificant data point at the low end.

        1. I don’t expect you to figure it out so I’ll tell you:

          I regularly read here as I am interested in Apple, it’s shares, goals, products and perception. I find some of the conversation and thinking in this forum very insightful at times.
          As with most humans I am moved to action when I care enough about it.
          Apple stocks, company policy, products etc do this very occasionally. But when I see otherwise learned minds that have erred so far from truth I care. I care when an article talking about condoning something that will affect others (in this case vulnerable children) I comment. I don’t sprout crap. You may not like it doesn’t make it wrong or crap. You may prefer me talk about money or stocks and sometimes I may – but for me the fact that I just made x amount means far less than moral / spiritual issues.

      2. Did you really just compare babies being murdered to two adults who are in love wanting to be afforded the same rights as everyone else?

        Oh, and god told me it doesn’t like your hateful rhetoric. Ok, that didn’t really happen, because god doesn’t like or dislike anything.

        1. Read carefully before posting 🙂

          My comment on babies was for RIP Ragged who stated ‘let God stop them getting hitched’ so I used a far fetched example of how ridiculous this notion is.

          My comment earlier about rape & murder was for samiam who seems to think that if the animals practice homosexuality then it’s fine for us. Again flawed logic.

          Just to be clear I am against the murder of babies. I have yet to meet a homosexual that is against it though.

          I am more vocal against the murder of babies than I am about homosexual marriage. I disagree with both and the Bible is clear that God’s anger rages against those who participate.

      3. Dude, humans created their God(s) not the other way around. If the rules are to be changed, humans will change them.

        Get your head out of your ass and your morality out of our bedrooms.

        1. No God Created humans and the world we live in. When people turn away from God they start to create their own counterfeit gods. Just because their are counterfeits and grave consequences of them doesn’t mean the genuine article doesn’t exist.
          No one is trying to enforce morals in your bedroom. Or in your head. That is between you and God. This issue is about morals coming so far away from God’s law (what your country’s government was founded on? )that your morals are being forced onto the next generation.

          God and Christians state clearly about what is or is not sin or acceptable, the homosexual agenda has been under handedly manipulating minds through the media and movies for decades.

      4. But Ploth, it’s *us* that don’t want babies murdered. We tend to like them as a species. So we stop the baby murderers. And all the other baddies that hurt us directly, no matter what stories we believe.

        But if you say you’re going to stop the gays because you don’t want to gays to marry, what’s your reason?
        By your own statement, you’re doing it for God…

        Is that the best you’ve got?


        1. define ‘us’

          I’m not doing anything ‘for God’. Lets be real – I’m simply stating my opinion based on what the Bible says about homosexuality. Morally it’s wrong.
          But yes my experience with emotionally damaged children from wrong parenting, abuse, sexual perversion, sexual abuse etc leaves me wanting to be vocal and do something about it.

          The effect of this bill on children down the track will have huge consequences. The God-given role of male & female and dad / mum is not something that can be fulfilled just because someone wants to. Good intentions mean nothing at the end of the day.

          1. So what if they Bible says it?
            Do you do everything the Koran says?

            I doubt it. And neither do I. Because I’m not a Muslim.
            I’m also not a Christian.

            Do you understand that not everyone in the world thinks the Bible is right?

            1. The Bible contains truth and it can be verified. And once you actually meet the author who is truth you’ll understand. As it seems many here fail to understand, this is not a simple religion, but a relationship with the creator – real truth

              Other religious texts fail very quickly and easily at tests into authenticity, truth, history the list goes on.

              Yes, it seems that many have no idea of what the Bible says let alone how dependable and truthful it actually is. Even so surely people realise that your government was formed on the principles contained within the Bible? History can show that the further you go away from these the more trouble you have in society.

            2. No time machine needed – just eyes & a brain that works. As your attitude is ‘let’s pick the holes in the everything I don’t agree with’ I won’t go into much details here, If you had this same attitude with any of the other theories as to how we came to exist you would come up with far more reasons to say all they have is faith.

              Have you ever look at:
              The numbers / numerology in the Bible?
              The Numerology of the letters and words in the original languages point towards divine authorship These systems are not some gimmicky ‘predict the future nonsense’ but they are systems of numbers that can not be replicated by human minds. There are so many of these it is incredible, but as an example:

              The prophecies in the Bible? This is huge. Pin point specific prophecies that are fulfilled to exact detail by people who had no control or knowledge of them. Verified in historically observable evidence. Not your ridiculous broad re-interpreted Nostradamus type ‘prophecies’!

              Science in the Bible? Although not a science book, the Bible contains many scientific facts that for years secular science ridiculed – only to find out it was wrong.

              Textual criticism – obviously you haven’t done this.

              Historical / Archaeological support? Again findings continually showing that Bible stories once thought to be symbolic are in fact,

              The list goes on and even if you spend a life time researching these things you will be amazed – but these are tiny compared to something else. The effect meeting the author through it’s writings can have! Seriously why is the Bible the most stolen book, the most successful, the most translated? Why have countless millions died just for owning one or refusing to denounce it? Because they are stupid? No. Without God’s help they would have walked away & saved their own lives. Look in this thread as soon as someone is threatened they attack & run – but these people all faced torture & death and prayed for their (wrongful) accusers. What they were all good people? Burned at the stack & they didn’t feel it because they were? The answer is right in front of you.

              Just because you don’t want to accept doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Like I said if you search honesty (not a quick glance with prejudice and an attitude of looking for faults) you will find God. You don’t need to pretend. Sure think of them as stories to start with – but ask God to show you if He is real & search the scriptures to see if He is. You have nothing to loose & no one will ever know. But think about what you have to gain. If you are wrong & you face this Holy God with your sin you will suffer horrendously.

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