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“Continuing upon the Engadget rumor that the next generation Apple TV will move from a scaled down Mac running Front Row software to an iOS device that works like a screen-less iPod touch, the latest wrinkle says the new model will get its former ‘iTV’ codename,” Dilger reports. “Apple’s chief executive Steve Jobs originally introduced the device (a few months before it shipped) under the iTV name while noting that the company was still looking for a permanent name. Apple TV was subsequently released as Apple announced the iPhone in early 2007.”
“By converting Apple TV into an iOS device, the company could erect a third new wing of apps in iTunes. The popularity of iPad (which has collected a portfolio of over 20,000 apps in just a few months) suggests tremendous potential for a TV-oriented iOS product,” Dilger reports. ” The shift toward a smaller, cheaper device that uses network streaming rather than Apple TV’s hard drive for local storage also likely necessitates using the same video output of iPhone 4 and iPad, which is 1024×768 (or perhaps the very similar 720p HDTV resolution). Apple sells HD content in iTunes as 720p.”
Read more in the full article here.
As usual, a lot of misinformation getting passed around on home theater topics. First off, it IS possible to distinguish between 720p and 1080p on a monitor smaller than 55″ (I know this because I use a 1080p 50″ HDTV). The variable is the viewing distance.
A device that limits the output to 720p puts an automatic constraint on the resolution, which might be okay with mobile devices and watching stuff on a computer monitor sized display, but not on a large flat panel TV or front projector.
The reason to go with 720p is simple — lower bandwidth, lower than 1080i, lower than 1080p. Picture quality is not the reason to go 720p. The thing to keep in mind is that with a native 1080p TV, EVERYTHING gets rescaled to 1080p. But, don’t think that this means that 720p is equal to 1080p or even 1080i.
Running a native 720p signal into a 1080p HDTV requires that either the TV or the video device rescale the image to 1080p. Rescaling a 720p signal does not restore any resolution, and thus it’s easy to see the difference at normal viewing distances.
1080i is a bit more complicated because that depends more on the processor and how it handles the deinterlacing process. But, the end result is an image that’s true 1,920 x 1,080 resolution. The difference is that an interlaced signal requires interpolation to create a native 1080p signal — a more complicated process than rescaling a progressive signal. And the quality of the processing will vary considerably.
The old notion of 720p being better for sports and action scenes was true back when you actually had CRT HDTVs that displayed 1080i signals natively. But, with flat panel TVs, everything has to be rescaled and deinterlaced to 1080p, so this is not necessarily true.
The best of all worlds is 1080p — no rescaling, no deinterlacing = less chance for unwanted visual artifacts. But, the drawback naturally is the higher bandwidth requirement. And I think that would be the reason why this rumored iTV device would leave 1080p out.
Assuming comparable video compression levels, a 1080p signal requires more than twice as much bandwidth as 720p. If iTV has no hard drive, it has limited storage. And it would rely a lot more on the downstream speed. A native 1080p signal would gobble up a lot more memory and/or require a faster internet connection than most consumers currently use.
Either way, for me this is a nonstarter. For someone who has grown used to the picture quality of 1080p Blu-ray, this would be a huge step down. iTV would basically be dumbing down to the specs, which is something I don’t expect from Apple.
@QMan
As the article mentions, take this 4k story with a hail stone sized grain of salt. Going to 4k video (i.e., 4,096 x 2,160) would require nearly 10X more bandwidth than 720p. Considering the issues with cramming a modest collection of 1080p files onto a flash device or trying to stream 1080p video over a typical household internet connection, I don’t see this happening for a long time. On top of that, we don’t even have any 4k monitors available to consumers currently (Panasonic’s 100″ plasma panels have native 4k resolution, but those are for professional use with a price in the high five-figure range).
And there’s nothing to preclude Blu-ray from adopting 4k video into its spec (easily accommodated on existing dual layered disc media), so any advantage by jumping to 4k would be short lived.
I have a question?
If you have 720p, will there be a difference in the quality when viewed on a 720p HDTV vs the 720p content on a 1080p
What I am saying, if this iTV rumor comes about, and you are interested in it (low bandwidth in my case, and no HD broadcast). would you get a better picture using a 720p HDTV? than with a 1080p
@HotinPlaya
The thing to keep in mind with so called “720p” HDTVs is that their native resolution is actually 1,366 x 768. 720p is just a convenient marketing short hand.
Playing 720p content on a “720p” TV will still require rescaling the image. So, assuming that the quality of the scalers and image processing, and the panels themselves is roughly equal, you probably won’t see too much of a difference between a “720p” and 1080p TV. The more obvious difference would be with 1080i and 1080p content.
Anyone saying there’s no difference between 720 and 1080 TV quality obviously don’t own a Sony Bravia XBR. 1080i is so crisp it’s unbelievable. Hockey is broadcast in Canada in 1080i and it’s better than being at the game. There’s no comparison. 1080i programming on an HDTV like the XBR is what TV is all about. So if you bought a cheap 720p TV because your iMac cost you way toooooo much, don’t say there isn’t a difference.
Apple is “supposedly” about quality but it’s mostly fake. The so-called aluminum on MacBooks is more like silver plastic. Can you get any more fooled?
Look, Apple is okay. They just forgot where they came from and have their heads too much in the clouds. Apple could be competitive on the low end iMac and choose to snobs. They give you half the specs for twice the price.
Case in point. A Dell flyer came in tonight. Here’s what I get for $1220 with a two year warranty, tax and delivery included:
1) the i5 750 CPU
2) 6 GB DDR3 SDRAM
3) 1 TB hard drive, 23″ HD 1080p Widescreen Display
4) 1 GB ATI Radeon HD 5450 Graphics Card
5) Bluray optical combo drive
Can it get any sweeter. Where’s Apple with the lowest iMac? Get real, it’s nothing but a gouge your eye out price. If the iMac let you add these options, the low end iMac would be $2500 +
With the iMac, you get one-third the specs for waaaaay toooo much money. Apple could be reasonable but they’re too busy giving the old tevanian several hundred million and Rubenstein several hundred million (and get screwed by them over at Palm/HP now). Apple should give young people and young professionals a break on their entry machine. Period.
Justifying Apple’s prices make you very silly and selfish people like your dictator.
@Dave- then buy the Dell, if it makes you happy. Your high school, social justification, low self-esteem rants are pathetic.
@Woochifer
Thanks for your comments/explanation.
I’m starting my planning for the entertainment centers for a small condo/hotel we are building in the Yucatan of Mexico. We will have 21ea 42″ and 36ea 32″ flatscreen.
I have an ATV and love it! What I am hoping is that Apple does put out something in the $100 range, where we could stream movies/music to the TV’s, and most of the movies will be from ripped DVD’s. and as of now in SD.
Can you rip Blue-ray DVD’s? If so, I guess we could get some down here, so we could offer HD.
They have been selling HDTV’s for several years, but there is no HD content to speak of. Some stations are beginning to broadcast in HD, but again it is spanish content.
We plan on having the basic Mexican satellite service, for CNN/FOX/BCC in english, but everything else I want to come up with an economical streaming setup.
If you have some ideas, feel free to email me
http://www.maknuk.com/
I forgot to add, all the condo’s will have iPads!
To be perfectly honest, the whole HDTV resolution scheme (1080p, 1080i, 720p) was flawed from the start – it was not sufficiently progressive for the large displays/projections to come.
Being an old school guy who grew up with a maximum of three channels plus PBS – all with snow and ghosts – I still find 480p to be pretty darn good. In fact, I sometimes wonder if the extra compression that is often used to squeeze higher resolutions doesn’t end up providing a worse picture in some cases. I notice quite a bit of blurring and edge artifacts on action scenes. Being an engineer, I do want 1080p (or better), especially for a display of 50″ or more. But 720p does seem pretty darn good to my eyes, considering the past…
@KingMel
Thats how I grew up, but we were one of the first in the neighborhood to get a color TV !!
And we had one of the 1st remote controls! it consisted of my dad barking “Mike, change to channel 5”
it will also come with Magic Trackpad.
But i think iTV will only come next year.
News Flash:
We already have the next AppleTV, its called the iPad.. Shhh..
.:.
if you can’t see the difference between 1080p and 720p on a 42″ go check your eyes!
Link some proof.
@ Dave
“Apple is “supposedly” about quality but it’s mostly fake. The so-called aluminum on MacBooks is more like silver plastic. Can you get any more fooled? “
WTF does that even mean? the fact that the aluminum housing is so well machined and elegant that it appears as plastic to you?
you.are.an.idiot.
considering the ps3 and 360 1080 consoles output most of their games in resolutions from 600 to 720p i don’t think 1080p is that big a deal to the average ‘joe’
as for blu ray having such an amazing picture purely down to it’s resolution ,it’s the mastering and source material that matter a lot more than the eventual output resolution
720p is a compromise , but isn’t life all about compromises ?
plus standardising on 720 res means the file will play on the ipod touch , iphone and ipad as well..
@ flappo
Windows is also just fine for the average joe… so what?
Of course, Blu-ray owes its quality to the source material and mastering. That’s why it is such a crime for Apple, to not offer its customers the best available formats and resolutions.
You are quite right, the idea is to streamline of the commone denominator set by the lowest res item in their portfolio, i.e. the pad and pod.
I find that quite sad.
i guess you can blame the film companies ( sony mainly ) , who if apple sold 1080p downloads wouldn’t really be able to shift blu rays on us and have us buy yet another version of a film we’ve seen 15 times
in 2-3-5? years or so , when blu rays dead , the internet infrastructure has been beefed up , then i’m sure apple will offer full hd stuff
There was a macbreak weekly a month or two ago where Scott Bourne or Alex Lindsey suggested that Apple was putting so much of its time and attention into iOS devices that he could see them almost giving up the mac entirely in five or ten years. He predicted that the Mac OS would go open source as a Parthian shot to MS.
While listening to the episode in my car, I realized that he got it completely wrong: in five or ten years, Macs will run some equivalent of iOS. Apple loves locking down every aspect of the mobile experience, and getting a piece of every app sold. I think Steve would salivate at the chance of doing the same thing with the mac platform. In the next decade, especially as cloud computing ala Google OS becomes more accepted, he’ll step onstage and promise a few new features, better stability and an improved user experience on a new model of notebook. All software will be provided through the app store, and will be tied to your specific machine. I.E., the future equivalent of the macbook as a consumer device will not be able to get final cut pro as it is a professional app. The equivalent of the Mac Pro may be exempted from this.
If the new iTV is a iOS device you’ll see that iMRIGHT.
Lack of 1080 not a big deal breaker unless size of your tv is bigger than 50″,then there is a difference in picture quality ,most people can’t see it.
@john
Ja, well, if most people can’t see it and if Apple will only cater to the ones who can’t, those who can will have to look elsewhere.
I recall a few months ago there was a comment by Neill Young (I believe), who stated that the likes of iPod etc was responsible for a decline in musical (as in audio) quality.
There were howls of objection here, but really, when it comes down to it, Apple’s desire to tie each and every piece of media, audio, video and book, into that iTunes delivery system, does in fact pose such a problem.
Delivery and convenience rank higher than best possible quality.
That is regrettable.
This is Engadget, the people who churned out Courier “concept videos” as if the device was a done deal.
Apple will not drop support for a higher resolution that it currently supports. If they do, it will not be for a product that is the evolution of the AppleTV. It makes zero sense, but does show how many retards will spaz out on Apple because of A RUMOR ON ENGADGET.
You can always spot the trolls, they just can’t get away from listing specs. Because that’s all they’ve got.
1080p is too much bandwidth
if you stream 1080p you have to really compress the hell out of the picture so yes, you get 1080p but it looks like sh**
naysayers do not know sh** about audio/video
they hear 720p and 1080p and don’t really know the story
720p with low compression looks better than highly compressed 1080p
I work with high end projectors and I can verify that. period.
720p is a good move for Apple.
@Radius
That and the fact that there is no other source for their demanding standards so they kick the shit out of Apple. If anyone else were offering what they were looking for, they woukdn’t even be here.
These people are jaded. Their damaged by the convolution of disparate pieces of technology that is becoming so complex, they can no longer make it all work together, so they come into the Apple camp lashing out at anyone or anything that would disrupt their imagined savior from producing the ideal gadget that delivers what everyone is looking for.
No such company exists, least of whom is Apple, who is looking for a compromise that appeals to the larger audience. The Apple I know has chosen a new path, away from niche, and yet that is exactly where these One Percenters would keep Apple, building products that appeal to a very narrow segment of the world’s population.
These are the same people who want the best technology at Walmart prices.
The point is, if Apple is to deliver the optimum experience to the widest audience possible, using today’s standards Apple will have to settle for second to none.
Some media outlets may very well be delivering the best experience possible, but at what cost? How successful are they, really? Are the actually delivering the best of everything available to the masses?
If so, then why are people bashing Apple?
I can think of several reasons why, but the most salient reason is, these people have witnessed the meteoric rise of Apple, and may have contributed in some small way, are now expecting Apple to deliver them from the stagnation of their own pet companies, who are struggling to stay alive, much less keep pace with all of the technological advances.
Those of us who live on Apple Time, are right on time and right on the money, and content with Apple’s progression. We aren’t jaded by cutting edge technology because the things we buy from Apple remain useful until something better suddenly arrives. Even then we have to weigh the merits of making a switch, because what we’re using already makes us happy.
That’s not to say we’re never disappointed, because we are, but not with the
frequency of those who don’t live on Apple Time. It all comes down to context. You can’t race into Apple’s space/time continuum and start yammering about making corrections to a charted course that leads to ultimate happiness.
You either adjust or you learn to live with disappointment.
1080p on my xbox (zune video) looks fantastic, and streams instantly. If Apple only supports 720p, I will never buy it.
Also I ditched itunes over spotify. Better in every aspect.
While Apple is a good company, not everything it does is brilliant (like mobileMe).