“When Steve Jobs introduced the iPad on Wednesday, his live demonstrations with the device clearly showed the Safari browser was not capable of playing Adobe Flash. However, promotional images on Apple’s Web site show that same content loading just fine,” Neil Hughes reports for AppleInsider.
“One in a series of rotating images on Apple’s main page shows a story from The New York Times, entitled “The 31 Places to Go in 2010.” In the image, a picture of a beach in Montenegro is shown. The picture is part of 17 images displayed at the top of the story in Flash,” Hughes reports. “When accessing that same page on an iPhone, the images do not load. Instead, it says ‘In order to view this feature, you must download the latest version of flash player here,’ with a corresponding link.”
“It’s likely the iPad photos are simply renderings of the device, rather than actual screenshots taken of the Web sites,” Hughes reports. “For example, the URL bar for the Times Web site simply shows ‘http://travel.nytimes.com’ rather than the address for the actual story displayed.”
Hughes reports, “Apple has famously shunned Flash, with the Web plugin having no support in the iPhone Safari browser. The company has even encouraged developers to “stick with standards” and use CSS, JavaScript and Ajax instead of Adobe Flash. In short, it’s unlikely that Flash support will exist in the iPad when it ships in two months… While Adobe has pushed for years to have Flash on the iPhone since it launched, Apple has not budged. The company’s rejection of Flash and move towards alternatives such as HTML5 suggest the Web plugin will not likely appear on the iPad.”
Much more, including the promo images, in the full article here.
See also, 9 to 5 Mac’s coverage on the topic here.
Standards,
If Adobe didn’t screw over Apple with each version of Flash and if Flash wasn’t so resource-intensive, it probably would be on the iPhone and the iPad.
Apple can’t afford to be at the mercy of third-party developers who don’t care about the OS X platform. They become the rate-limiting step and not Apple.
@jayburd,
Those images on Apple’s site aren’t ads… they’re just product images. Artistic renditions.
Laws about advertising don’t apply outside of advertising.
In any case, did anyone stop to think that those photo may represent Times site content that was configured for the iPad and not supposed flash content being misrepresented?
Get a grip people.
@Not Standard
First off… breathe.
This site would be so much more enjoyable if people didn’t get so uptight. We all have opinions here… let’s recognize that that is exactly what they are.
First off, you make a good point about IE6. As a web developer, I of course hate IE6 and its lack of support for basic CSS. But I don’t see Flash as doing this exactly. Flash plays nice with HTML and even integrates CSS into its world. Maybe you are thinking of Flash ads. Those annoy me too, but do you blame the .JPG format for banner ads you dislike? And do we blame phishing on the technology used or on the individuals responsible? I don’t blame my email application for scams.
Secondly, I am not forcing Flash on anyone. My point was simply that it seems egotistical to call the iPad the best internet experience out there, when it doesn’t support a plug-in that is on 99% of modern computers, and is a large part of the web.
If anything, it is Apple forcing their opinions on us. Most of the time, when they do this, I can deal with it (no floppy, no CD drive, proprietary display connections, crappy mice, etc.) But this time, it bums me out, because I have no work-around.
I am a huge supporter of Apple, and I always will be. I have 3 macs and an iPhone, and I will buy an iPad when they are available. That said, I don’t see being disappointed by Apple’s decision to not support a technology that has been on the web for years as an attack on Apple.
’nuff said,
Wasn’t Steve demoing a beta NYT’s app for the iPad? Wouldn’t the NYT’s developers have known not to include flash visuals and put something else there?
@Standards,
Your argument fails. Install base does not equate to good technology. By that logic every browser and OS should conform to IE7. Everyone calls their product “the best”, including Adobe, which like to coin the the phrase “Rich Internet Application” to describe Flash, that seems egotistical as well. The Internet is rich enough without Flash IMO, thank you very much. Jobs is taking a stand and some of us think that it is about time, not egotistical. If a few more IT managers have the same balls IE6 will be long gone. I get that we can all be Apple fans have different opinion, but saying Flash must be included because it’s been around does not sound very innovative. Are we going to support CDs forever too? Why must all platforms support everything?
For someone who tell another to relax you seem like you have to have the last word all the time. I’m out. Go ahead, put in your rebuttal.
This flash debate is really weird to me. Apple products are supposed to “just work” for their intended purpose.
Is flash outdated, crappy technology? Yes
Can most if not all flash implementations be replicated using newer, standards-based technology? Yes
Will all those sites be rewritten anytime soon using HTML 5, AJAX, etc.? No
Can your kids play on Disney.com and other websites on the iPad? No
So, for many, it won’t fully “just work.” This is disappointing. To go on about how Flash is bad doesn’t change that for many people.
I really don’t think this is fully (or even) a technical decision. Flash would enable people to easily make web apps that act like app-apps for the iPhone and iPad… and Apple would rather keep that in their store… for good reason. (They are a business after all.)
I agree. Well, except that I don’t think the Flash technology is crappy. I think it is quite powerful.
However, I don’t buy the whole “Apple is trying to better the internet by excluding what it considers inferior technology” argument. If so, why doesn’t it exclude Flash from Safari on the Mac as well?
I suspect Apple’s reasons are to control the entire iPhone and iPad experience.
Also, the iPhone/iPad has no way of tracking menu hovering, like a mouse can. This may cause problems in sites that have Flash, and use hovering as a form of menu activation/navigation. Could that is an issue?
@Standards,
You are not getting it. You must not make content for the web because if you did, you would know what the big deal is.
It’s called H.264 and AAC.
Oh, I have a better idea. How about I compress all my stuff in Flash and you pay (out of your own Flash loving pocket) the difference it will cost me to stream my content in Flash instead of H.264. Please!!!!!!!!!!!! I figure it’s going to cost you about $2-$3K a month for the difference to get the same quality.
Hey, but it’s your STANDARD so I guess you can pay, right?
Wow, while I was writing more people who haven’t a clue came aboard.
Think about it folks. If you are Apple and you are a “content delivery” store over the web and have to delivery gazillions amount of data, wouldn’t you want to use the cheapest carrier and the cheapest labor?
If you sell these devices and the battery last about 30 seconds because it takes twice as long to download and the twice as much CPU power to run, YOU’RE SCREWED!
CONTENT IS KING! If you can get the content, quickly, efficiently, and they be able to use it.
Well then, you are…….our IT staff using Windows.
Websurfer
Flash is not just about video, and it’s not just about ads. There are millions of sites on the web that incorporate Flash for other functionality.
Sure there are newer technologies that can do what Flash has done for years. But for many years, Flash was the only way to create truly immersive interaction on the web. And as TigerCliff so eloquently put it, those sites exist, and are not going to be converted any time soon.
This isn’t about whether Flash is good or bad. The whole point is that the iPad will not be able to view a large amount of content on the web, and is therefore not a complete web browsing experience. Until there is no Flash on the web, the iPad’s Safari browser is incomplete. Not supporting something doesn’t make it stop existing.
But the iPad is still amazing
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How sad to see the 13 year old geeks trashing Flash and praising its “immediate” replacement with HTML 5 and Javascript. Have some balance with your Kool-Aid, it’s good for you.
I like the iPad and iPhone but I question Apple’s decision to block Flash. Think about the millions of sites that at least partially use Flash – financial sites with charts, photographer’s sites, and kid’s sites – to name just a few categories.
Regarding video clips, businesses, especially small businesses need a way to provide video about their products and services to the vast majority of visitors. Flash is on approximately 98 percent of computers. If their video is delivered as a progressive stream for flash players that are a few versions old, most users can play them.
If one planned to provide their video clips through their HTML 5 website, most of their users wouldn’t be able to access the videos since they don’t run Safari or Chrome and most wouldn’t or can’t (workplace) load those browsers.
Regarding user interfaces, let’s say a business wanted to create certain types of attractive user interfaces. With today’s tools, if a developer used notepad, textedit or a coder’s tool to hand code the pages, it’s extremely unlikely that the site would look like a professional designer designed it. It would probably be tacky and garish. Yes, this is directed to the unbalanced 13 year old geek boys.
Also, because many of the browsers don’t display pages the same even though they’re using the same CSS code, a webpage designed with Flash will appear the same on everyone’s computer.
Yes, browsers are getting better about displaying CSS code, but when will Microsoft decide to cooperate too? By designing a page using Flash entirely, a business can save time, money, and frustration without having to write their HTML and Javascript with extra lines of code to detect browser versions and include hacks to make Exploder browsers display their content properly.
Personally, my practice is to use HTML, CSS, little to no tables, and Flash to display video clips and certain elements. I use a mix of Dreamweaver with hand tweaking of the code. At a corporate job for ten years, I worked everyday with hardcore Javascript, PHP, Perl, and MySQL programmers. I started as a designer, and the programmers showed me best practices to create content for the web that would use well written code, display fast and be visually attractive. Sometimes Flash is the best for displaying certain content and is more efficient to develop with it. Good balance.
Think like a programmer, a designer, and a business owner – only then will you be able to see the big picture.
I love my apple products but you apple fanatics need to get SJ balls out of your mouth.
Flash is everywhere on the internet. Give me the option to see it!
@ The Man
You have the option to see it – on any Apple product that is NOT an iPhone or iPad!
I hate Flash. It used to kill my G4 powerbook. Slowed it down and crashed a LOT. I have since gotten an intel powered note book and I use ClickToFlash. Excellent program!
I can’t even think of how awful an experience it would be using a touch screen interface with flash running all over it. No thanks!
@Norrin Radd
While I understand both points of view from “websurfer” and “standards”, I also understand Apple’s point of view and you hit it right on the head. Use the right tools for the job.
As a developer, I’ll need to change or get left behind. The internet is evolving, how we browse the web, handle content and get information will continue to change. Thank God! I’ll still have a career for many years to come.
You know, I keep reading all this talk about the “great new technologies” for the web. As a designer, I still can only pick from a handful of cross-platform fonts. Not that I want to use Circus Big Top Bold or anything, but why should I have to create a piece of art if I want to use Franklin Gothic?
Content may be king, but good design with more options is important as well. As Apple users, you have to appreciate this.
Flash gives me a lot more flexibility with type.
I work for Adobe.
Are we forgetting the biggest issue here — what is Flash used for a lot right now — Video… professional videos from Network television. Go to Hulu, NBC.COM, other websites and you need Adobe’s FlashPlayer Software to use it.
Apple is making a bit of money off of the iTunes TV/Movie products, and comptetitors such as Google’s YouTube let you watch a music video or homemade movie, but not yesterday’s episode of Desparate Housewives. So, you cannot view this free video on Hulu, but instead have to go to Apple’s iTunes Media Store to purchase a copy of the tv show, and give Apple its’ fair share.
Apple is reinventing its’ strategy bigtime — it used to be Apple controlled Software & Hardware. The goal, clearly now is going to Apple controlling Software, Hardware, and your media. Want to read a newspaper, buy our app for that, want to listen to a song, buy it from us, want to store your email, buy that from us, want somewhere to show off your photos, buy that from us, want somewhere to buy/rent/watch a movie, buy that from us. Its’ a brilliant strategy really, though quite insidious.
Interesting Apple owns a stake in HTML5.
Flash is so buggy on my MBP, it constantly causes crashes of Safari. I won’t miss it.
Honestly, with my iPhone, I use apps mostly. I use the Safari Browser just for a few websites like google, Wikipedia, and a few others. I do my banking with apps. I sell things on eBay with an app.
I won’t miss Flash at all. And if hulu and NBC want iPhone or iPad hits, they should either create an app, or update their websites.
Apple has changed the computing world dozens of times over the past decade. Firewire (which they unceremoniously dumped). USB. Getting rid of the floppy drive. iPhone. LED monitors. iTunes. iPod. Geez I’m just thinking of these things on the top of my brain. And in every case, the whole internet geek world had a psychotic break. And in every case, the rest of the internet world was playing catch up and never quite catching up.
Flash is history. And we’ll live without it.