According to Greenpeace, “Sometimes companies need to be reminded of their environmental commitments–like HP’s 2007 promise to stop putting toxic chemicals in their computer products. That’s why our activists climbed to the top of HP’s global headquarters in Palo Alto California today, and William Shatner (yes, Captain James T. Kirk) recorded a special voice message for all the staff in the building.”
Greenpeace’s website proclaims:
We painted a huge message “Hazardous Products” onto the roof of the Hewlett-Packard building (the paint was toxic-free). Meanwhile a voice mail from actor William Shatner was delivered to all the phones in the building with an automated system.
HP was being called-out for backtracking on its commitments to phase out toxic chemicals from its products by the end of this year. It cost them a penalty point in our Guide to Greener Electronics last month, along with Dell and Lenovo. So to get them back onto the straight and narrow, we’re delivering reminders to the company at their buildings, in the press and online.
Today’s action follows similar demonstrations at HP offices in China and the Netherlands highlighting the continued presence of toxic chemicals in its products.
Earlier this year, HP postponed its 2007 commitment to phase out dangerous substances such as brominated flame retardants (BFR) and PVC (polyvinyl chloride) plastic from their computer products (excluding their server and printer lines) from 2009 to 2011.
It’s shameful that HP is continuing to put hazardous products on the market, despite the promises it made. It should be following the lead of companies like Apple, which has led the sector in phasing out these toxic chemicals.
Apple’s new computer lines, virtually free of PVC and completely BFR-free, demonstrate the technical feasibility and supply-chain readiness of producing alternatives to these hazardous substances. Dell, Lenovo and Acer have also stayed ahead of HP, putting models on the market that are free of, or at least significantly reduced in their use of, PVC and BFRs.
So it can be done, other companies are moving much faster that the world’s number one seller of PCs. If HP wants to remain a market leader and not just another purveyor of harmful products, it needs to get back on track and eliminate BFRs and PVC from its products by the end of this year, as promised.
Full article, including William Shatner’s message to HP, here.
MacDailyNews Take: The militant kooks at Greenpeace never fail to at least partially hop onto Apple’s coattails for some free PR. They lost sight of their original mission so long ago, it’s a miracle they can even remember to use the word “environment” in their self-promotional propaganda. They’ve obviously also never heard of the words “criminal trespass and vandalism.” HP needs to fire those responsible for building “security.” And William Shatner should know better: Vi estis manipulita.
GREEN PIECE OF SHIT is how i commonly refer to their organization.
What message did that loon Nancy Pelosi add. worst speaker ever.
Shatner should be ashamed of himself for associating with a bunch of eco-terrorists like Greenpeace. Even one of the founders of the organization left after claiming the organization turned it’s back on science.
They’re basically just one level under Scientology.
Did Scotty beam them up to the roof to do their deed?
Please help me prioritize my hate list.
– Green Peace
– Microsoft
– Scientology
– PETA
– Raiders
* Sorry Raider fans! You’re allowed to substitute Broncos in your list.
Good take, MacDailyNews.
“Greenies” should be careful what they wish for. First it was CFCs destroying the ozone layer and exposing us to harmful UV rays. Their solution was mass conversion to HFCs.
But now here we are 20 years later and we’re finding out that HFCs are up to 4400 X more damaging to our environment than CFCs were.
Relying on Greenpeace for good science is an oxymoron.
I’m confused… Err… confuzed.
I thought Green Peace liked to bash Apple, and Apple products…
Weren’t they recently bitching about the batteries that Apple uses?
Greenpeace are a bunch of media whores. They are made up of marketing graduates who were not good enough to be successful in the real world. They do a great disservice to people who really do care about what’s happening to our world.
You’re a reactionary bunch of fscks on here sometimes aren’t you?
Apparently you’d rather tolerate manufacturers utilising hazardous materials in their products than applaud anyone who gets off their arses- which you, of course, would never do, and tries to do something about it?
What is your problem MDN?
HP made a public commitment to eliminate these harmful materials from their products, then backtracked on that commitment when they thought no one was looking. Only Greenpeace was looking – BIG whoops!
So HP basically lied to the public in order to improve their public image in relation to their environmental credentials and someone has pulled them up on that. If this group had simply issued a press release with no visuals for the print and electronic media, no one would report it, and no one would know HP lied and took the public for a ride. No one was hurt with this stunt, no real damage was done (the paint will wash off with the next shower or a bucket of water and a broom) and HP were very publicly and quite rightly shamed for their deception.
At least for a change Greenpeace are praising Apple.
I agree with knowhowe. Fsck off you do-nothing wankers.
Oh MDN, Greenpeace LIVES on criminal acts and trespassing. It’s the only way they get any attention. If Greenpeace wasn’t militant, it would have been forgotten long, long ago.
What a shit organization. Weren’t these the guys who praised all of these companies a couple of years ago for having wonderful environmental road maps? At the same time bashing Apple because they wouldn’t give in to their demands and produce a similar environmental road map of their own. Even though at the time Apple was clearly one of the most environmentally friendly, award winning companies.
And now? Wow! Wait! You mean a road map doesn’t actually mean it’s going to get done as promised!? Greenpeace has got to be one of the most gullible and worst run organizations on the planet. If non-profit organizations had their own version of pollution, Greenpeace would be it.
I am totaly committed to recycling, but vandalism is much more repugnant. Captain Kirk should be confined to quarters!
Nancy Pelosi – worst speaker ever???? – obviously you don’t remember Mr. Tom Delay. I do – and he was one of the worst.
The “reactionaries” are those that use flawed science to promulgate a political agenda.
You can tell when its flawed science by who signs on the the research. When all the signatories make their living chasing government grants for universities and private firms, and those that don’t won’t sign on, its flawed science.
Much of what has been banned in the past, because ti was ‘bad’, has later been found to not be harmful at all.
@knowhowe & Blue Suede Suze, et al.
I think it’s unfair to accuse the people here of not caring about the environment. I would wager most people on this list prefer to be on the right side of the law. If someone wants to make it public that HP has backtracked, they should do so in way that is LEGAL. The fact is that Greenpeace has become so radical, the only way they get any attention nowadays is by breaking the law.
Me personally, I hate terrorists, and so I can’t support Greenpeace, no matter how noble their cause.
To all those who think the Greenpeace bashing is anti-environment, learn a little history with regard to Greenpeace Vs. Apple. Like I posted above, Greenpeace was all over Apple for not kissing their ass by making promises. They had a big love fest with all of these other PC manufacturers based not on environmental performance, but on promises. So they targeted Apple for no other reason than to gain attention. It was unwarranted at the time because Apple’s environmental policy was on par, if not better, than the other manufacturers. Steve Jobs was an LCD dropping, pot smoking, non-meat eating, Bob Dylan loving hippie for christ’s sake.
Ok, what does ‘Vi Estis Manipulita’ mean?… even Google has not heard of it.
“Me personally, I hate terrorists, and so I can’t support Greenpeace, no matter how noble their cause.”
Agreed. You can tell how ‘noble’ Greenpeace’s motives are by the way they conduct their “work”. Make a sizeable contribution to them in order that their “work” is furthered, and they will take their “work” elsewhere, leaving their blackmailed “contributor” alone.
Greenpeace is all about making its next payroll (especially for those at the top), hence their terrorist tactics.
I am sick and tired of constantly hearing about these hippie bubblegum-head socialists who try to inflict their retarded agenda on all of us. Greenpeace should have been outlawed many years ago. The mere fact that they can commit such acts of public vandalism with impunity is unsettling. This incident should be investigated, HP should prosecute those responsible, and they should do some serious hard time in a maximum security facility for nut jobs.
Thank god that there are some good and decent hard working americans like MDN, who can expose these shills for what they are!
Blue Suede Suze’s brevity shows his/her preferred method of dealing with opinions that differ from his own.
Unleashing brilliant commentary such as …
“… I agree with knowhowe. Fsck off you do-nothing wankers … “.
You would obviously do whatever it takes to make sure that your voice is heard, and then run into the night. Hit and run – much like your ELF brethren.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ecoterrorists-burn-ski-resort-1180024.html
Apple products are “virtually free of PVC”… as in “almost free of PVC”… as in “contains PVC”.
Hmmmm… interesting choice of words.. virtually!!!
“HP made a public commitment to eliminate these harmful materials from their products, then backtracked on that commitment when they thought no one was looking. Only Greenpeace was looking – BIG whoops!”
That is HPs choice to make. Unlike Green Peace, HP didn’t break the law. If you don’t like it, write to HP, and/or stop buying their products. Don’t commit crimes to make a point.
Today, for instance, I witnessed an employee of a local pest control company throw his Subway bag, drink cup and other trash on the ground of the local 7-11 and drive off. I picked up the trash, called the company and cancelled my service with them. I did not follow him and spray paint his truck, throw rocks through their windows or paint their roof.
… come and attack my house in Palo Alto. Tear it all down. It uses materials which are no longer to code, asbestos and other toxic chemicals. If you come and burn it to the ground, I promise I will build something environmentally friendly in it’s place… like a big glass cube.
“Greenpeace: The Wrath of a Con” coming soon to a circus near you….
“criminal trespass and vandalism”
Yep, next thing you know …
They’ll be “Storming the Bastille”
Some lil’ ol’ Lady won’t move to the Back of the Bus
Or “Your Great-Grand-Mama” will try to Vote
If “criminal” activity like that is allowed or encouraged
Probably be the downfall of Civilization as we know it
BC
“Silent leges inter arma” – Cicero
“Apparently you’d rather tolerate manufacturers utilising hazardous materials in their products than applaud anyone who gets off their arses- which you, of course, would never do, and tries to do something about it?”
Wrong, what we would do is stay within the law. Please explain how vandalism solves the ‘problem’? The answer, it doesn’t. Furthermore, just because we don’t follow your crackpot agenda does not mean we are too lazy to get off our butts. It means that this isn’t something we are willing to stand up for….which is our right.
Green Peace has no problems vandalizing others property so I thought that I’d do the same.
This is their American Headquarters in Washington D.C.
“Some lil’ ol’ Lady won’t move to the Back of the Bus
Or “Your Great-Grand-Mama” will try to Vote
If “criminal” activity like that is allowed or encouraged
Probably be the downfall of Civilization as we know it”
The problem here is that:
1. This isn’t a civil rights issue
2. The little old lady didn’t vandalize the buses in the dead of night, she stood up for her own rights. Furthermore, she was willing to face the consequences. Greenpeace does their damage when nobody’s looking and then hides behind their numbers.
” … does their damage when nobody’s looking and then hides behind their numbers.”
Yes, Quad Core, can be quite a philosophical conundrum
As it’s said, “One man’s Terrorist is another man’s Freedom Fighter”
Next they’ll be dumping Tea in the Harbor ?
BC
Get the political bull crap off this site already! It’s stupid. Is partisan free Mac news too much to freakin’ ask for?
I know one thing, HP isn’t the type of company who will put up with this kind of crap. I’d expect some criminal charges and a lawsuit against Greenpeace over this, and deservedly so. Environmental Activism is one thing, and a good thing in many instances, but criminal, ham-fisted stunts like this that obviously require breaking laws and result in defacing of property whether public or private, shouldn’t be tolerated. Greenpeace deserves to be punished for this.
Terrorists. They should be put on the terrorist watch list. These people are the scum of the earth.
Okay people…..do I have to bring out the old parents adage “Two wrongs don’t make a right?”
And BC Kelly….I appreciate the point you tried to make but I would hardly equate Voting or sitting at the front of the bus with Vandalism. Women voting and blacks sitting in the front may have been socially unacceptable at the time but neither acts were considered illegal.
Just like shooting an Abortion doctor because he’s performing abortions is the INCORRECT response for a Pro-lifer…….(albeit more serious than vandalism) it is not right to damage someone’s property and break the law because they don’t fall into your politcal agenda.
Again…..two wrongs do not a right make….
Loved Star Trek, but what an undynamic duo. I mean who the hell cares what these two has beens have to say?
MDN,
do you post these articles and then sit back and watch us, chuckle, and say “Dance puppets dance?”
@Rober’
Um, hate to tell you this Rober’, but Tom Delay was NEVER Speaker of the House. That being the case, please let us know how he was the worst? Inquiring minds, and all…
I hate hatelists, and, therfore, all right-wingers.
Let’s avoid politics, shall we? Ignorance is not bliss, obviously.
I’m allergic to nuts, too.
MDN: Stop being so hysterical about Apple. They mentioned Apple once, and then in a positive way, so they aren’t riding their coattails. It’s not all about you, you know.
And for a bunch of you: painting on top of a building is one of the lightest examples of “vandalism” I’ve ever seen. They didn’t even actually harm the property–it can be cleaned up. In the meanwhile, they acted in civil disobedience in order to bring attention to a corporation’s lies and misbehavior in the interest of the public. Would you rather they had issued a strongly-worded statement which would be ignored? Or would you have rejected even that as grandstanding, since Greenpeace is on your shitlist? Would it have been better if they had said nothing, and HP continued to lie and dump toxic chemicals unnoticed?
Or is holding major multinationals accountable contrary to conservative principles?
But the HP laptop is cheaper!!!!
Ha, ha. You get what you pay for. If you want to buy your law student a toxic pile of PC, go ahead.
Greenpeace is working for some extremely important causes in some very bad ways.
Are any of you working for anything nearly as important? Are you doing it in better ways?
If so, then I acknowledge your right to criticize
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I myself cannot make such a claim. So I salute what they are trying to do, and hope very much that they get a grip and start doing it in a better way.
This HP incident, by the way, probably IS effective in getting attention. And nothing ever gets done by INattention, you may be sure.
They should have gone the final, honest step and allowed themselves to be arrested. It would be been respecting the law (who cares about respecting a corporation?) and it would have made an even bigger media event to promote their good causes.
Oh, well. Instead, they go for the attention and the soundbite.
Can you blame them? That IS how the world works. Ask any politician. They craft FAR worse and more dishonest stunts daily. And with no good cause, either.
Mick, et al
Sorry, been busy, and is dinner time now, so get back to this party later, if able
But, here’s one quickie …
“two wrongs do not a right make”
Perhaps
But 3 Lefts Will
Later, BC
Greenpeace are just fundraising-obsessed slime–and terrorists too–they don’t miss a trick!!
Anyone who trusts them about science or health is simply uniformed.
Greenpeaceniks need to grow up and respect the Rule of Law if they expect people to take them seriously. Ecoterrorism is out. It gives real environmentalists a bad name.
I’m not a Greenpeace fan but who else was going to remind HP of their verbal promise ? I’m happy that Apple is leading the way by helping customers recycle their old computers, by making smaller more efficient packaging and reducing the amount of toxins that go into the manufacturing of the computers. Thanks Apple !
Personally, I would fire the HP personnel responsible for security.
Hey, Joe…hear anything funny?
Nahhh. That’s just birds stompin’ around on the roof.
I do believe strongly in the environmental cause. Corporations are legal entities without a conscience, and are capable of doing great long term harm for short term gain. But you can go overboard, to the point that ‘environmental’ becomes simply ‘mental.’
Greenpeace = real American terrorists
What’s homlnd scurty’s interpretation of this?
Trespassing to hang an embarrassing banner is one thing, but to use paint?!?!? Some executive should be arrested for that one, and Greenpeace should be charged for the cleanup fee.
This isn’t international waters, there are laws that they must be accountable for.
To add to my post above –
Unfortunately the police can’t to ANYTHING unless HP files charges, and they may be guilted out of doing that.
So, what does that say about security at HP?
Did they have inside help?
You know, I often disagree with Green Peace’s methods, but come on people, this is not that bad. I find it fairly comical, actually, and it gets the point across.
Public shaming is the best way to get people or companies to change. Calling HP’s bluff is exactly what needed to be done. And as other people have pointed out, no one was hurt, and the paint is not permanent.
Yes. They broke the law. That’s bad. But if no one was hurt, and there was no permanent property damage…why complain?
Just another reason to call your Senator To-Day and tell them to vote NO on Cap & Trade!!
I’ve decided that the next printer I buy will be from HP. Fuck greenpeace.
-jcr
I thinks it’s only fair after years of Apple bashing, because they would not deliver a ‘road map’ to non-toxic construction, that they now focus on those who delivered a ‘road-map’ and ignore it.
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Apart from that, it’s a media thing again. HP is a good target. They would have gone after a DELL plant, but those are closing so fast, you cannot keep track
@iPhoner
Please help me prioritize my hate list.
– Green Peace
– Microsoft
– Scientology
– PETA
– Raiders
** Religions
** GMO
** Revisionists
** Creationists (well, see “religions”)
* Sorry Raider fans! You’re allowed to substitute Broncos in your list.
** added
Oh! Sorry… i’ll finally take out Greenpeace and replace it with:
** Narrow minded and money blinded bandits and pollution terrorists
You can tell that most commenters are American here – the world’s biggest consumers of energy. While you drive your car two miles down the road to McDonalds because you’re too fat on convenience food to walk, using up valuable resources and poluting the atmosphere, the civilised world on the other side of the Atlantic is facing up to its responsibilities. (Yes, there are other countries in the world).
Apple should be applauded for leading the way in this industry and they are highly regarded for their co-operation with Greenpeace here in Europe. It took direct action to get black people the right to vote in your ‘land of the free’ – sometimes that’s what is needed and Greenpeace should be praised for trying to convince your generally selfish, lazy and irresponsible country to face up to its responsibilities. Well done Apple and keep up the good work GP.
To . .
BOLDLY go . .
where . .
no PAINTER . .
has GONE before.
And finally, after the uproar has hopefully subsided, common sense rose to the surface.
It takes courage and patience to change hearts & minds of not just individuals but groups, crowds, countries & the world. Example:- Gandhi, Mother Teressa, Jesus, Mohammed, Elijah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac Newton, Charles Barbage, Leonardo DaVinci, Ada Lovelace, Plato, Benjamin Franklin, Graham Alexander Bell, Marconi, Mona E. Simpson, Einstein, Ányos Jedlik, Zénobe Théophile Gramme, Charles Francis Brush, Alfred Nobel, Mohammed Ali, & Mr. Steve Jobs combined with Mr. Steve Wozniak.
In the cold harsh light of daylight, let us examine what it is that Greenpeace have done.
They have provoked thought, anger, shame and a whole gamut of feelings from everyone in a bid to expose those that would damage the environment in the name of commerce, is it such a bad thing even if some of us don’t agree with them?
Long may Greenpeace carry on!
Maybe this environmental shit is all overblown in the first place. No… that can’t be it.
HazMatt
@Mick James (et al)
“I appreciate the point you tried to make but I would hardly equate Voting or sitting at the front of the bus with Vandalism.”
OK. But could you equate Voting or sitting at the front of the bus with trying to stop the poisoning our environment, with for example BFR’s or PVC? Are you really more concerned with the letter of the law in instances like these than the environment (at least my) children will grow up in?
I see this issue like this: Greenpeace have slapped Apple upside the head a few times. Therefore “true” Apple fans MUST take every opportunity to bash Greenpeace, no matter what. Think first and act then? Nosirree, not me. Then I wouldn’t be a true Apple fan. Those Greenpeacers are EVIL! They want to criticize Apple, so they’re obviously out to destroy civilization. Unlike for example honest to god companies spreading bromium and PVC in our drinking water, since they are not breaking the letter of any law. Morally questionable (to say the least …) and against the intent of several laws to poison the world we all have to live in? But they don’t actully break no law, so what yer goin on bout???
And there are people wondering why it’s so slow going to even slow environmental degradation. Sheesh …
MDN word “case”, as in at least William Shatner is on the case.
@Macd
“Just another reason to call your Senator To-Day and tell them to vote NO on Cap & Trade!!”
Yeah, that’s what this is about, right? It figures.
MDN-Please skip the political comments. They lower the quality of your site.
One of the great things about Apple’s batteries is they have a very slim chance of ending up in landfills. Unlike all the consumer removable and replaceable batteries out there where 80 to 90% end up in landfills. Consumers don’t think about it but your lithium based battery craps out and isn’t rechargeable or only holds 40% of it’s charge so you run out and buy a new battery for $60-$120.00 toss the old one in the trash install the new charge it up and your off. A new Macbook Pro in 5 years might need a new battery you take it in to an Apple store for $50.00 they remove it put in a new one and send the old battery for recycling. Apple will do the same for iPod and iPhone Batteries.
If Greenpeace had not singled out Apple for environmental issues, Apple would not have produced its current crop of environmentally friendly products, and no one would give a shyte.
Greenpeace may or may not have a spotless record, but they certainly are doing the right thing by reminding the world – in a harmless way – that HP is reneging on its commitments. No one else would even care.
Equating a roof getting painted with terrorism is so ridiculous that it makes me wonder if this whole line of commentary is a big astroturf job by HP gang members.
Nice work Greenpeace. Keep it up.
Careful, your jealousy is showing.
All the posters in here, not old enough to remember and therefore not understanding the enormously good job GP have done for environmental issues should read up. Today there is a lot of environmental groups (and I would say, more efficient than GP) but none of them would have existed without the enormous ground work GP did to change a generations “enlightenment”. So all the “young” posters in here bashing GP, I would say, that without them you would have been as stupid as the generation before you and probably would have brushed your teeth in Agent Orange convinced it was a good product.
Your calibration on environmental issues that you today take for granted as common sense would probably not be without GP.
And back then they where bashed of the zealots as disturbing communist troublemaker-not-good-for-anything…and reading this blog they are now days labeled terrorist-disturbing-the-peace-no-goods…huh?
TO MDN, If I where you I would stay away from political involvement, especially when you time after time dresses your opinions in such “in the box” thinking. You have a good thing going with your site don’t spoil it being so PC. Just saying.
Anybody notice that the word Apple in the MDN take is linked to a “Bing” ad. WTF?
MDN word: wrong. How appropriate!
@Michael
“Steve Jobs was an LCD dropping, pot smoking, non-meat eating, Bob Dylan loving hippie for christ’s sake”
Steve Jobs dropped an LCD screen? Butterfingers!!! (with apologies to PeTA)
All this faux outrage over … gasp … something illegal.
Does anyone remember MDN takes that advised music lovers to access something called BitTorrent, in response to the music companies that insisted on DRM, variable pricing, album sales, and a host of other evil practices?
Where was all the outrage and derision and knee-jerking about how … gasp … illegal it is to download music without paying for it?
Busted you are, MDN.
The real media whore here is MDN. The only reason it posts such political drivel on a Mac-centric site is to drive up the hit rates and ad clicks.
HOORAY for William Shatner and Greenpeace!
Sometimes the only way to get a big corporation to get off its ass and do what is best for the earth is to embarrass the heck out of them.
This wasn’t eco-terrorism. Nobody got hurt. Nothing got blown up or burned down.
So to all of you sanctimonious right-wingers who hate anything labelled “green”, “peace” or “environmental”: suck it up.
Greenpeace is not perfect, but at least they are doing SOMETHING to hold companies accountable. I guess what many of you are saying is that it’s okay for a big company to profit from damaging the environment and hurting everyone’s health, but painting a message on a rooftop to call attention to the former is a criminal offense that is far worse?
Well, nice to get back to this Party
And see it’s still going
Good Work Folks
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Quite a diverse range of thoughts and arguments
Presented, mostly, in a civil and lucid fashion
And isn’t THAT the point of this exercise ? (so to speak)
Here we are from all over The World
Discussing a Subject with Foundations deep in our Common History
(and not talking about Greenpeace or HP or Paint)
Talking about Legal vs Illegal – Right vs Wrong – Good vs Bad
Complicated Ethical Concepts worthy of a University Philosophy Class
Or Sunday School (depending on your proclivities
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Has anyone here changed their mind about anything ?
Maybe, maybe not – doesn’t really matter
What matters is the Exchange of Ideas – The Process of Examination – The Forum
And we’re doing it (or at least working at it, smile) as Adults engaged in Open Democracy
Day In/Out – Sharing Conversation (or at least working at it, smile) beyond Bumper Sticker Graffiti
(No Dude, you’re wrong – Mac’s Rule and PC’s Drool)
MDN, doing fine, give plenty, ty, and love it when you “take” some too, Your Party
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And when we all talk about Macintosh, The Gestalt of Apple – or even the News of The Day
There’s a lot more going on than just a Computer as we Think Different™
BC
My, my, what a reactionary right wing bunch you are… I wonder whether those of you who “hate” Greenpeace take any mind of how much garbage you produce, how much gas you burn, how much electricity you use… I shouldn’t imagine you do.
Lets consider the issue here. PVC is highly toxic. Apple have virtually phased it out. HP promised to do so. But HP have reneged on their promise. Who, if not Greenpeace, will call them to account?
Do you like poisoning yourselves and your environment?
Considering how much freedom you have vis-a-vis many peoples of the world, you are remarkably irresponsible.
America: don’t read, don’t listen, don’t know, don’t vote, don’t care… Shame. If you did you would realise that Madame Karma has already arrived in the USA… A painful correction is under way in case you hadn’t noticed…
William Shatner aka Captain Kirk? What happen you people stop watching TV. Obviously it is a Danny Crane on mad cow disease imperrsonation. I mean come on think about it, didn’t Danny Crane represent the scum of the earth in Boston Legal? Talk about living a role. Way to go, be a spokesman for real scum. What an actor.
Terrorists? Vandals? Criminals? Over a bit of wash-off paint? Get real guys.
The extreme nature of the comments on this subject have been a real eye-opener for me. You Americans have, I believe, had some experience of real terrorism, vandalism and criminality- and it wasn’t anything to do with Greenpeace.
Get your priorities in order eh?
@byronic
I despise how people like you make it seem that America took what it has at the tip of a sword or the end of a gun barrel. To be sure, America did not get where it is today through force or coercion, which is more than can be said for most of the old European powers. Has America screwed up? Hell yes it has. Has America been a bully? Of course, and on more than one occasion. But in general, America has earned it’s place in the world. Why should She be ashamed of this? Because of some misguided sense that everyone in the world must be equal, that one country cannot have it better than another? That is an idea tinged with envy, espoused by those who’ve come in second place (or worse).
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that Americans are too wasteful, that a lifestyle change is needed, and may be on the verge of happening. But don’t tell me America should be ashamed of Her place in the world, Her wealth, or Her power; because those things were earned, not taken.
MrMcLargeHuge
There’s truth in what you say, but perhaps some Greater Truths you’ve missed ?
Imagine are a lot of Indians (Native Am, to be pc), Slaves in South, Euro Immigrant “de facto slaves” in North, and Miscellaneous Banana Republic Latinos who would beg to differ about “force and coercion.”
But in general, due to our “Unique and Innovative Operating System” (like that one? smile) we’ve been fairly quick to respond (relative to other Systems throughout History) and make adjustments that have allowed us to achieve our “place in the world.”
Yes, many of us have been waiting since the 60’s – many much longer – to see this USA “lifestyle change” that damn sure finally better be on the “verge of happening.” If not, then USA may end up the Microsoft of the World with head up ass, but so rich and powerful can get away with it, least for a Season.
Did USA reach our “place in the World” because it was “earned, not taken” ?
Maybe, maybe not. Might just been Dumb Luck.
But this much is True – and somewhere in one of the “Operating System Manuals”
“For those who have much, much is expected”
And don’t think that’s talking about just money
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BC
@BC Kelly
I agree with most everything you’ve said, especially concerning Native Americans (being descended from a couple myself). And while luck may have certainly played a role, I don’t think we can attribute ALL of America’s successes to dumb luck. Other than that minor qualm, I think we’re on the same page here.
PS: Nice pun with the “Unique and Innovative Operating System”
MrMc
LIked that “OS” thing, eh ?
ty, never met a Metaphor I didn’t like
Speaking of which …
How do we define America’s “success” ?
Microsoft ?
Or Apple ?
Give ya 2 guesses
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BC