“Back in June at the WWDC keynote, Apple SVP of iPhone software Scott Forstall took the stage to discuss Apple’s answer to the lack of background applications on the iPhone. Many developers had expressed concern about the limitation which could restrict the usefulness of certain applications, such as instant messenger clients,” Dan Moren reports for Macworld.
“Forstall presented a different solution to the problem. Apple would instead roll out a push notification system that apps could use to alert users when remote content had changed,” Moren reports.
“Apple said that it would be available as of September…. [But] the ninth month has come and gone with no sign of the feature, despite Apple shipping a major iPhone OS update during the same period,” Moren reports.
Full article, which speculates that Apple “may have decided to spend more time making sure the notification system worked as advertised before rolling it out to iPhone users at large,” here.
Oh well folks, this is what happens when Apple caves in and starts listening to what people want. For years everyone wanted Apple to talk about things in advance, not hold things so close to the vest etc, etc.
I hate it this way, Apple needs to tighten things up again and deliver good products when they are ready and not a second before.
The push notifications were always a lame response to Apple’s inability to get multitasking for non apple apps working properly on the iPhone.
Hopefully they’re secretly working on the real fix (multitasking).
I agree with you marko.
I think they need to make sure that it’s full prove aswell before they do. I mean, we all saw the disaster of a launch MobileMe had. We don’t want Apple making anymore mistakes.
Just out of curiosity guys, how many people out there have a MobileMe account, and find it useful?
Ironic that this:
http://code.google.com/p/iphone-backgrounder/wiki/Documentation
would be released the same day as this story.
Lame: Appropriate nome de plume, That comment was lame (or at best completely clueless). The iPhone is already has a multitasking OS (in case you don’t understand the core OS on the iPhone is OS X) they just aren’t going to give the keys to Joe codemonkey. For good reason, managing unlimited multitasking on a resource limited mobile device is a nightmare (even if the os were theoretically perfect at time-slicing)
ros.rulz
I had .mac for years and thought it was useful (if a little expensive) They upgraded me to mobile me and I really didn’t have any of the problems that some users reported.
When I got the iPhone I was delighted (with mobile me) my calenders contacts and mail pushes, both directions, in seconds (literally… like 4 or 5)
The fact that now my wife and I can both get and send mail, add and edit our “family” schedule from anywhere (home, work, public access or iphone) is extremely useful. (now that we have it I don’t see how we could go back;-)
@ Lame,
What a lame response…
There is no such thing as “Apple’s inability to get multitasking for non apple apps”, and there never has been.
Apple has stated, from day one, that they don’t want apps running in the background, and they’ve made this foremost in their design philosophy.
Anyone who can read should know this, so what’s your excuse?
Sorry, but who can be surprised about this one? They had to deal with the 3g launch issues and the MobileMe problem.
I doubt they were too focussed on this issue…but give them a few weeks and it’ll be there I’m sure.
Well, finally a real deadline was missed. Not some imagined deadline by these so-called analysts. I don’t mind waiting a bit more for it if it will mean I’ll have the possibility of getting what I want.
And what is it I want? (Thought you’d never ask.) I want an app similar to “Where”, where I can inquire as to the location of another iPhone without that iPhone having to be running the same app. Of course that other iPhone would have to have approved inquiries from my phone or email address. This where push would come in … a message from my iPhone would trigger the target phone into running Where long enough to determine its location and then send the coordinates back to me as an SMS or email. This would be great for locating a stolen phone or keeping up with your rich kids.
I’m with you marko. I’ll be happy to try it when it’s ready….quality takes time and I’m happy to wait.
I didn’t have any significant issues with the .mac to mobileme transition and continue to use the features daily….(still don’t care for the name though
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
ros.rulz
I have a mobile.me account and use it all the time. I suggest getting an account for a year and give it a try. I am sure it isn’t for everybody but I have found it extremely useful.
Apple’s too busy rejecting apps.
It’s delayed because they still can’t get mobileme push to work consistently.
@ros, I have one. I think it is decent, but not great (the web apps are terrible still). But I will admit to having a bit of phone envy with Android (namely notifications oddly enough) and the integration with Google Calendar, etc. Anyone else notice how you can’t invite someone to a MobileMe calendar event? I know people that live and die by that feature in Outlook (which Google has worked into Gmail and GCalendar very nicely).
@Lame
Incorrect.
It’s the way it is to conserve battery life.
Period.
If you had a battery that’s good for a month, it would be no problem to allow everybody access to multitasking.
“Apple has stated, from day one, that they don’t want apps running in the background, and they’ve made this foremost in their design philosophy.”
Actually foremost in their design philosophy was that you didn’t need a real a native SDK and web 2.0 apps were all you would need (until they had a real SDK ready, then apparently SDKs were a good idea).
“iPhone is already has a multitasking OS”
As was Windows 386, it had true preemptive multitasking between VMs. But just like OS X on the iPhone that didn’t mean anything to developers because the OS only exposed single tasking dos emulation and co-operative multitasking windows views of the world to them.
“For good reason, managing unlimited multitasking on a resource limited mobile device is a nightmare (even if the os were theoretically perfect at time-slicing)”
Not true. There are thousands of examples of devices much more resource constrained that an iPhone that multitask just fine. My bet is you’ve never written any embedded software, almost all of which is multithreaded, so are just repeating Steve’s talking points as to why they haven’t got to it yet.
Even in general purpose operating systems, In the 60’s Unix systems like Mac OS X multitasked on PDP-11’s with processors running at a few Megahertz and 64 kilobytes of memory. There’s no reason other than poor system or SDK design, massive code bloat or inefficiency that it’s impossible on an iPhone with 10,000 times the capability to perform tasks in the background.
The push concept is a useful thing to have for events which originate outside the phone, but it’s a compliment to, not a substitute for a real multitasking OS.
The iPhone SDK takes a leap back to the dawn of computing in that particular part of it’s architecture.
I have used .Mac from day one. The transistion to MobileMe has been a bit rough but it works as advertised now.
The best part of this system is the integration. Bookmarks are synced, I can use webmail and my calenders at work (on a PC), even have docs available anywhere through the idisk.
I never pay full price for the service. Usually Amazon sell it for $80 online.
@ Wingsy: “Well, finally a real deadline was missed.”
Finally? Apples been missing self imposed deadlines for a while now: Leopard, SDK, AppleTV firmware, etc. That doesn’t include the deadlines they met, but failed at delivering a working product: MobileMe, iPhone 2.0 Firmware…. Anyone with half a brain can see that 2.1 was what 2.0 was supposed to be, just 2 months late.
I really hope Apple shores up their resources and starts living up to their previous reputation for on-time products that “just work”.
@ros.rulz
I have it and like it, very useful, never experienced any problems with it.
“It’s the way it is to conserve battery life.
Period.”
Which just states that Apple thinks that users are too stupid to decide if they want a useful but battery sucking app (like say Google Maps with GPS enabled, no 3rd party developer could do worse than that battery sucking pig that apparently has Apple’s blessing to be in the phone) or long battery life.
And it also suggests that there are not people out there who know just exactly how to code background apps for resource constrained platforms.
No, You may believe all that, but that’s just the ignorance talking. I’m sure Apple in their heart don’t. So all that means is they just haven’t got to it yet.
I don’t know how great multi-tasking on the iPhone would be in the first place. I can’t even play music and browse Safari without skipping, lurching and most often a crash.
Anyone who has used the “Notes” app on the iPhone to write more than a sentence or two, and anyone that has more than a few hundred contacts in the “Contacts” app on the iPhone, should know that multi-tasking is NOT something we want or need on the iPhone.
The whole OS stalls badly when it has to load anything more than a tiny snippet of data. The idea of holding large chunks of data in memory, even for copy and paste is scary enough. Having large poorly written programs by your favourite app developer running in the background while you are trying to do anything is just plain dumb, and anyone who thinks this is a good idea is an idiot.
I would bet that one of the reasons Podcaster was rejected was the simply ridiculous idea of downloading multi-gigabyte files in the background while you are walking around the streets. What a nightmare!
The problems with multi-tasking and backgrounding apps on the iPhone is in the details, and most developers who post to forums and places like this are basically full of sh*t on this subject because they believe that *their* apps of course are perfectly well coded.
In short don’t believe ANYONE when they say that the iPhone could easily multi-task like a desktop OS, especially developers. They are biased, black and white thinkers out to feather their own nests.
I have a mobileme account and I love it. They have really ironed out a lot of the bugs and things are running very smoothly now. I am very happy.
@Lame, Marco, Fester, etc…
C’mon! This has NOTHING to do with code or quality control or anything of the sort. This is purely an AT&T;issue. The scumbags charge every iPhone user $0.20 for each SMS (above there alotment — typ. 500). Those douchbags don’t want to lose this sleazy income source so they’re putting their dickhead screws into Apple to delay/derail this feature…
“The whole OS stalls badly when it has to load anything more than a tiny snippet of data. The idea of holding large chunks of data in memory, even for copy and paste is scary enough.”
How is this an argument against multitasking done right? It actually sounds like although you’re too stupid to know it, that’s what you’re crying out for.
Part of the reason the iPhone is so sluggish moving between screens is that lack of multitasking for applications.
“ridiculous idea of downloading multi-gigabyte files in the background while you are walking around the streets”
That’s right, because it’s not possible to download gigabytes a day over 3G networks. Hey, wait, it is, just not with an iPhone. What’s the point of multi megabit 3G networks if you don’t actually use them for something? The average podcast is say 20 meg, so takes less than 20 seconds to download over a fast 3G network, and then plays for 30 minutes.
“full of sh*t on this subject because they believe that *their* apps of course are perfectly well coded.”
Or they believe that most developers don’t struggle with building applications which are good citizens in a multitasking environment. And for those that do struggle, the user is smart enough to differentiate between apps they find work well and want to use and those they don’t. Badly written software doesn’t sell anywhere.
The only people who think that “multitasking” is some magic, resource heavy technology which would bring the iPhone to it’s knees are those who have never written any real world application in their life.
The word is flat I tell you, flat. Don’t let anyone tell you any different, and stay away from the edges.
“This is purely an AT&T;issue. The scumbags charge every iPhone user $0.20 for each SMS (above there alotment — typ. 500). “
I hope Apple’s push concept isn’t going to use SMS. That’d be really dumb.
@Lame
One of the key assets at Apple is knowing a little bit about Operating Sistems. A little bit more than you and me together, by the way.
Thee should be a reason for this (a good one, by the way) and a decision on the restriction.
I bet it is one of two (or both): a) Security or b) Energy.
I think that is a PROTECTION and not a FAILURE.
MobileMe still sucks rocks too. Wasn’t there some internally meme that leaked out saying “we’ll make it better, cuz we’re Apple not Micro$#!%” or am I just a dream apple fanboy fool?
MobileMe– I’ve had it since the day they announced it as iTools, and promised that it would be free for life. :/. I do find it to be very useful. I use iDisk regularly to store important files, and to host images.
Sync keeps it all working together nicely, and now that I have an iPhone, it has gotten even better!
As far as Ape missing the deadline, I’m highly disappointed. I don’t feel that they should announce a release date for ANYTHING unless they KNOW the date is safe.
I would have much preferred something along the lines of, “We’re wrapping up the details, and we will have it up and running for you as soon as possible. We are hopeful to have it within the next few months.”
I appreciate the beads up; it gives me something to look forward to. Just don’t promise me something that you’re not sure that you can deliver. I don’t want it before it’s ready though, either. Be honest, give me something to anticipate, but don’t give me false hopes or undelivered promises.
I’ve noticed the Facebook app will show i have messages now with the app closed
The main problem with most smart phones is that multitasking screws up performance and drains the battery. Most system crashes can also be traced back to multitasking programs.
Apple wanted to avoid that.
A massive amount of bullshit from you is not going to change that fact.
But go ahead, keep on spewing your negative bullshit.
Please ignore my typos. I blame the iPhone! :I
Lame, multitasking on the iPhone works fine if enabled by a hack. The only problems are battery life and RAM.
Battery life means that you want a notification service anyway, so that a mostly-sleeping device can be alerted that it needs to wake up so the appropriate application can respond.
RAM is very limited on the iPhone; the platform and API are designed to be useful to people who are not trained embedded developers used to fitting their code in 100K. The alternative would be a pagefile; forget battery life or performance if that ever comes into actual use.
Time to nail Apple to another cross. They missed a deadline, perish the thought. Let’s nuke the suckers.
it’s really simple. not snappy enough!
@Lame
Do you own an iPhone?
“A little bit more than you and me together, by the way.”
A little more than you anyway.
“The main problem with most smart phones is that multitasking screws up performance and drains the battery. “
How? That’s a completely stupid statement. It depends completely on what the background process is doing. A small background process which wakes up occasionally and doesn’t turn on the touchscreen is going to use much less battery than say Google Maps or any other application running in the foreground which keeps the LCD on.
“the platform and API are designed to be useful to people who are not trained embedded developers used to fitting their code in 100K. The alternative would be a pagefile;”
Tell me how running an app in the background has any effect on whether the software engineer is dumb with it’s memory usage or writes code with memory leaks. It’s as easy for a foreground application to allocate way too much memory or leak it over time.
“But go ahead, keep on spewing your negative bullshit.”
What’s negative in wanting exposed a feature the OS is clearly capable underneath, is used by Apple in their own software for the iPhone and exists in any other smartphone OS? Like Apple are the only people in the world who can write sensible multitasking programs?
“Battery life means that you want a notification service anyway, so that a mostly-sleeping device can be alerted that it needs to wake up so the appropriate application can respond.”
The flaws in that logic are many but lets go one by one.
First, and the biggest one means background events can only be triggered from outside the phone. What say you wanted to have an application which woke up every hour and took a GPS position. This is just one of a thousand examples of where an application might want to wake up and do something with internally generated data.
Firstly the code to do that is going to be tiny. No RAM use problems as some of the chicken littles here think. Second the battery use is going to be tiny because the application only does something once an hour. Third the effect on a foreground application is going to be minuscule for the same reason.
You are aware multitasking apps can sleep as well? Probably not.
And finally given that scenario with Push Events, with I’d have to create a “GPS Pinger Server” something that you register with which sends the phone a message every hour, which made it wake up, take the photo and store it. Now you’ve required me to power up the radio, use a bunch of network bandwidth, launch an application, take the position fix and exit that application, all to avoid a few kilobytes at most of memory usage and a tiny bit of CPU usage. I know which iPhone application is going to use less battery.
You’ve also required me to put in place a server farm for my customers and centrally scale it to be big enough to serve them all to act as nothing more than a sleep timer.
Finally how well do events work in airplane mode? Hint, they don’t.
How well do they work while you’re on a phone call in an Edge coverage area? Hint, they don’t.
How well do they work when you’re out of coverage? Hint, they don’t.
So while they may be good for asynchronous events notifying of data ready to be delivered from outside the phone, they’re no substitute for multitasking and background applications.
So how did this sad state of affairs come to be:
1) Steve initially told the developers that no SDK would ever be published, so they coded the iPhone software that way.
2) market pressure forced a U-Turn on Apple, the realized to be a viable Smartphone platform a native SDK would be required.
3) But by then developers had made some design decisions which might have been good in the “No SDK” context, but very bad in the “SDK” one.
4) They cobbled together the SDK we have today, just to get something out on the market.
4) They listed a bunch of limitations, features that real developers would expect to be there. Steve said no problem, that he had an army of morons, mostly photoshop users not developers, who would repeat his words that they were unnecessary features, just as they had repeated his words that a real SDK was unnecessary.
5) They’re working on iPhone OS and SDK improvements to fix the limitations of the cobbled together SDK.
6) Steve will announce that Apple have invented a revolutionary new kind of background application (Actually just the same as everyone else’s)
7) The moron army will then start repeating Steve’s words that background apps are now OK, even revolutionary.
“Do you own an iPhone?”
Yes, and I’m an iPhone developer.
Don’t the following things irritate you about yours?
1) You cannot start a Safari download on a slow Edge network, switch and read your mail (or do anything else on the phone) while that’s completing without aborting the download.
2) Every time you come into enterprise mail, having to wait while it downloads the text of the email you want to view.
3) Glacial switching between pages (applications), even built in ones, and watching and waiting while they restore their state. Why? because they’re perpetually being shut down and re-launched. That uses MORE cpu and battery power not less compared to the application sleeping in the background.
This compromised user experience brought to you by lack of good multitasking and background applications.
There’s a lot to like about the iPhone, it’s non multitasking model for applications is not one of those things.
Switching between Apps is not glacial.
And no developer worth their salt calls Apps “pages”. Maybe if you’re a half-assed code kiddy who came from Windows you might use such lame terminology, real developers don’t though.
“Switching between Apps is not glacial. “
It takes several seconds or longer. That’s glacial to me. You can very easily show how much quicker it would be if the application were still alive.
“And no developer worth their salt calls Apps “pages”.
I called them pages (applications) so that non technical individuals like yourself would know what I was talking about. After all how does someone like you know when the phone is switching to a new application, or what an iPhone application even is? Hint, you don’t. I have to tie it to a concept you might understand.
“real developers don’t though.”
It seems you’re a member of the photoshop moron army who has not one clue as to what real developers do and don’t do.