“Computers that run the Linux operating system instead of Microsoft Corp.’s Windows didn’t attract enough attention from Wal-Mart customers, and the chain has stopped selling them in stores, a spokeswoman said Monday,” The Associated Press reports. “‘This really wasn’t what our customers were looking for,’ said Wal-Mart Stores Inc. spokeswoman Melissa O’Brien.”
MacDailyNews Take: Yeah. They were looking for Slim Jims, pro wrestling posters, 56×29 Faded Glory jeans, and beer helmets.
AP continues, “To test demand for systems with the open-source operating system, Wal-Mart stocked the $199 ‘Green gPC,’ made by Everex of Taiwan, in about 600 stores starting late in October. Walmart.com, the chain’s e-commerce site, had sold Linux-based computers before and will continue selling the gPC.”
Full article here.
This is the first time I have been ashamed of an “MacDailyNews Take”
Some families are just trying to make ends meet. Wal-mart help.
That take was harsh and elitist.
“Yeah. They were looking for Slim Jims, pro wrestling posters, 56×29 Faded Glory jeans, and beer helmets.”
You forgot the Dale Jr memorabilia, camouflage jackets, and “Never Forget” bumper stickers.
that was funny. REAL funny.
I am not surprised and the “MacDailyNews Take” was spot on and not harsh at all. It was the truth, not many people go to walmart to buy a computer. They wait for the insanely cheap deals at best buy or staples or circuit city for that $300 laptop or desktop. Also for people trying to make ends meet… they can go to a library and use a computer or a coffee shop of some sort or the kids can just use a computer in school. Some will let you stay after to use the library or computers.
Mmmmm, MacDailyNews. I love Wal-Mart, and I don’t shop for any of those things.
You can buy sox there for 35¢ a pair.
Just wear and toss.
What a country.
I thought all their sales were to the poor….
If you go to WalMart, all you see is a galaxy of fat people.
I will agree with wow on the first post. Harsh and elitest yes. Damn funny….you bet!
Let’s all try to keep a good sense of humor around here folks!
@BigAl
“You can buy sox there for 35¢ a pair.
Just wear and toss.
What a country.”
I agree. But probably not the way you mean!
@ TowerTone
Are you an elitist, self-important arsehole?
Yup, I thought so! Sounds like it to me! Until you have the shopping budget of Donald Trump, you can STFU….
wow…
Yes, I help my family by exploiting people in other countries who work for slave wages. That’s the American Way!
MDN Take: Hilariously Accurate!
“Yeah. They were looking for Slim Jims, pro wrestling posters, 56×29 Faded Glory jeans, and beer helmets.”
Don’t forget the Garth Brooks CDs.
Wall-Mart… where ass-cracks, stretch pants, belly flaps and lunar-surface rumps are abundantly on view.
@ Mr. Reeee
Gee, you buy Apple products…. Are these made in First World countries paying union wages? Er, maybe not!
Years ago, Apple used to make most of their products here in the USA paying the factory workers a living wage…. and abiding by US environmental laws… not outsourcing to Chinese manufacturers paying Chinese wages and abiding by Chinese environmental laws (i.e. nonexistent)….
Gee, that makes you a HYPOCRITE!
Actually they sold out of gPCs in all 600 stores
http://www.walmartmovie.com/
http://walmartwatch.com/
http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/
I and literally every I know shops at Wal-Mart. And my name ain’t bubba.
You may think the MDN Take is horrible and elitist, but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s truth to it. Sure, yes, some families are just looking to make ends meet, but if I’m forced to go to the Wal-Mart by my parents’ house (usually because it’s the only place open late at night), a significant number of the people shopping there are ignorant rednecks. And those are the people MDN singled out.
“I and literally every I know shops at Wal-Mart. And my name ain’t bubba.”
Is it Jim Bob? Billy Ray? Cleatus?
Hey, Ben
I’m actually lower middle class (in more ways than one…) and live in the heart of Wally Land. My comment was a shot at many peoples attitude toward the “stereotypical” Wal-Mart shopper, not the shoppers themselves.
The one thing ya’ll are missin’ is that, Wal-Fart didn’t stop carryin Linux boxes ’cause they wasn’t sellin’ none, they stopped ’cause they was paid to by _________ (you fill in the blank – duh).
And about those $199 ‘Green gPC,’ made by Everex of Taiwan, how do those work? Do they revert back to lushes green moss after two years, and then I just transplant them into my back yard and go buy another?
The salesmen from WallMart must be like those of the department stores here: completely ignorant of anything that is not of Windows!
How do you want them to give good consultings about any other OS?
I will never set foot in Wal-Mart.
“Faded Glory” Jeans – what a great name that is the perfect embodiment of what Wal-Mart and the BushCo. Government ultimately stand for. Profits for us, working poor for you. This empire will find it’s own way back to the ground. FAIL.
Ben Dover…
The difference between buying Apple products and crap from Wal-Mart? I have no choice.
Sure, I’d prefer if Apple products were ‘Made in the USA’, but they’re not. In fact, there’s really almost no such thing as ‘Made in USA’ anymore. Even crappy American cars, electronics and appliances are assembled from parts gathered from everywhere.
Virtually everything is being outsourced to China and elsewhere. The people working in computer factories certainly have a higher skill level and compensation than people who assemble toys or package injected plastic junk.
I’ve been working on a project in China and have some familiarity with the factory workers’ skill levels.
You do us no favor with your take, quite the contrary.
Why don’t you go down to the store again and find the man, woman, or child you feel got here by some way different than you.
And then, spend the rest of your living days counting your blessings, you arrogant, condescending excuse for a human.
I think the following site says it all about Wal Mart
http://www.hel-mart.com/
Geez people take a chill pill. Rapidly judging comments before understanding their meaning in the grand scheme of things and trying to belittle people by profanity is a little harsh (….ummmm right Ben Dover?).
Ironically Walmart exploits the hell out of the people that work for them in order to sell cheap crap even cheaper. That is why I buy my beer helmets, polyester pants, Hulk Hogan posters and Celine Dion CDs elsewhere.
Funny, I actually bought my PlayStation 3 at Wal-Mart. And I noticed that they sell the full line of Apple iPods there as well. So no MDN, it’s not only hillbillies that shop there, not even close.
<< and “Never Forget” bumper stickers. >>
Apparently- we HAVE forgotten.
Macromancer, jjjj and the rest of you 3inch studs- could you please pass the Grey Poupon… or in your case- the Gay Mustard.
Walmart’s existence is based solely on our government’s desire to outsource all manufacturing so big business can dodge taxes.
Just my $0.02
The hostility and vehement comments between Walmart haters and its defenders is second here only to what is seen when Bush/Cheney is mentioned. Their is truth in what the Walmart detractors say, but the hysteria is nuts. What I am wondering is how MDN is going to report the eventual news when Walmart begins stocking the Mac Mini in place of those loser Linux machines.
@jjjj
Nice try, but it was Bill Clinton that signed NAFTA into law, making it far, far easier to send jobs outside the US and across our border.
Don’t let the truth hit you on the way out.
This started as a comment about Linux sales being curtailed and rapidly dove into the mirk of elitism. While my opinion of those who shop at Wal-Mart is low – Mr Reeee said it best with the “ass-cracks” comment – I occasionally shop there and at similar places (looking totally out of place). Many of the people who shop there have made poor decisions their entire life and will continue to do so. Many others are just looking for a bargain, perhaps a rather specific bargain.
Linux is a bargain. But! It comes at a price. You need to be quite competent to benefit from it – more than a little computer literate. Thing is, if you have the needed skills, you are only in Wal-Mart looking for a specific bargain. Those others who have been making lousy choices their entire lives will stay in their comfort zone and buy the system that is so much easier – a Windows box. When it slows down due to being infested they will go out and buy another to replace it. It’s easier.
I freakin’ hate Walmart, but sometimes find myself forced to go there. Where else can you buy a fishing lure, frozen pizza, and a Realtree (TM) camoflauged condom at 3AM?
“And I noticed that they sell the full line of Apple iPods there as well. So no MDN, it’s not only hillbillies that shop there, not even close.”
While your point may be correct, the evidence you supply does not prove it.
Hey, MDN, don’t be so tough on poor rednecks. They provide a big part of the listener base for a certain limp-dicked, drug addicted sex tourism-loving radio host you are fond of, and certainly could use a good, affordable computer for posting the latest racial humor to FreeRepublic.
Finally. Can we put this Linux is just as good as Mac OS X for most users to rest? Linux us great for the super geek squad, but lets get real folks, you can’t tell the average consumer or office user to use Linux and say its better than OS X.
@Sixvodkas….Just to make a correction here…it was George Bush that signed NAFTA, Clinton just helped its ratification. Moreover, please be more specific about the job loss border which happens to be Mexico and NOT Canada as per two incredibly stupid comments made by both Obama and Clinton. They both knew that and were posturing for the cameras. I hope Americans are not so stupid as to believe it especially as many of our manufacturing jobs went there. We were pretty pissed in Canada after hearing it. Besides, numerous studies have shown that the US had benefited much more than Canada by NAFTA (which was forced down our throats by Bush’s bosom buddy Mulroney).
I live in a small town in the South. Wal-Mart has done more to raise the standard of living for folks in my area that any other thing. People around here can buy stuff at Wal-Mart that they could never afford otherwise.
If one doesn’t want to shop Wal-Mart that’s certainly understandable, but it is a real blessing to millions of people that can’t afford better.
Think about it.
That was just ugly. It’s not funny and I’m shocked and disappointed by the responses on here.
Wal-Mart has a good business plan because it is based on a near-infinite causality loop.
Wal-Mart forces suppliers to outsource jobs to China, thereby resulting in closings and layoffs in the US. This further depresses in the economy in the areas where Wal-Mart is located, thereby increasing the number of people unable to afford other stores and having to go to Wal-Mart. As their buying power decreases, Wal-Mart forces more suppliers to outsource more jobs, creating even more Wal-Mart customers.
But you know what, as objectionable as Wal-Mart might be, what fscking excuse does Apple have? Sure, Wal-Mart pushes suppliers to outsource jobs, but both Wal-Mart and the suppliers are selling at paper-thin margins. Apple, on the other hand, sells merchandise at huge margins but is still assembling all of its products with cheap Chinese labor. If any modern manufacturer should be able to assemble in America it is Apple–and, indeed, Apple did make products here in the US until not too long ago. Every time I see that “Designed in California” label or whatever on Apple’s packaging I want to spit on it.
Everyone bitching about Wal-Mart and outsourced jobs needs to explain this to me–if you think Wal-Mart could profitably sell $2 plastic bowls having them made by American workers, please tell me why Apple can’t sell a $3299 workstation at a good profit without having the thing made in China by people making 20 cents a day?
regarding: MacDailyNews Take: Yeah. They were looking for Slim Jims, pro wrestling posters, 56×29 Faded Glory jeans, and beer helmets.
MDN, maybe you should buy a new server from walmart, it couldn’t hurt your web performance.
Perhaps some families try to save money to put kids through college, etc.
We don’t all get rich selling adds of Obama on our sites you know. Keep cutting and pasting other’s work, that’s what we Don’t pay you for after all!
If something is less expensive at Walmart why not buy it from there? With gas costs going thru the roof cutting back in other areas is mandatory. Inflation is outpacing my paycheck so I have to make decisions that are the best for me.
Let the flaming begin….
I used to refer to Walmart as- “The land of unwed mothers”.
But now I’m more PC and just think that but don’t say it.
Seriously though, I shop at Walmart for some stuff, dog food, kitty litter, camping stuff.
Last year I thought they had some really cool xmas decorations- kind of 18th century gothic. I was shocked that they would have something so un-mainstream.
I have to wonder what distribution of Linux was on the machines. If they were installed with Ubuntu then they would have been relatively easy to use.
That said, this was doomed to fail. Ubuntu, the easiest linux distro, is still a work in progress and relatively unheard of. It needs to get more “mindshare” so that the average joe-six-pack actually knows wtf it is. And even then, it’s not as easy to use as OS X and novice trying to install it on a new machine would be lost if there were some hardware dependacy issues.
It’s hard for me to understand some of the comments on here. I live in Canada, near Toronto (Between Detroit and New York), and I have not seen a single Walmart “up here.”
Might be too expensive for them to operate here because they would have to pay more taxes than in the states. Everyone just shops in Canadian Tire if they want cheap.
wow lot of bitching about the MDN take….
truth hurts sometimes don’t it?
america made walmart. the land where “more, cheaper” rules, and quality is hardly a concern at all, has made a store in its own image. and then you get laid off because that stores kills cities and economies.
so no quality america, you made your cheap composite board bed, or rather you had it made by companies with no morals exploiting labor in other countries. now sleep in it.
instant karma is a bitch ain’t it?
While I do feel MDN’s take is condescending, I am like many who would never set foot in a Wal-Mart. That chain is evil. It ruins communities, it is predatory, it abuses their employees who are often marginal workers and fear for their jobs. Hell even M$ is a better “citizen” than Wal-Mart.
Open your eyes people and do some studying. At least attempt to make an informed opinion, as opposed to one fed to you by marketers. If you conclude that Wal-Mart is okay, then by all means continue to shop there. My guess, is that many would choose not to.
56×29? That’s cold!
I tried Linux about five years ago, and thought it had real potential. All they had to do was fix up the UI a bit, make it easier to use, and they would have a Windows-killer. But five years later Linux still hasn’t gotten their act together. Every distro is either ugly as hell or too hard to get simple things to work. I can only conclude that Linux developers simply don’t get it.
Yes, it’s great that you can customize everything, down to recompiling the kernal. But the user shouldn’t have to; it should just work well enough as is without spending hours customizing.
Hey, I’m not above shopping at Wal*Mart, but I still feel dirty when I do. If you walk into Wal*Mart and walk out completely satisfied with your shopping experience, I’m happy for you. Enjoy your fabulous dinner at Olive Garden.
Walmart is an absolutely fabulous anti-poverty program. It has accomplished more than any government program, without taking a dime of taxpayer money. So, sure, more low-income people shop there! As for all the ignorant anti-trade comments on this thread, go take a class in economics. Or just open your mind and get some common sense. Fact is, China has LOST far more manufacturing jobs in the last few years than the US–ALL countries are losing manufacturing jobs as automation increases, and this will continue until until those jobs are as small a part of our workforce as farming is today. And there are PLENTY of well paying service jobs available, though they do require skills (e.g., nursing).
Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart should be ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES!
WAL-MART IS ONE OF THE MOST EVIL CORPORATIONS IN ALL OF AMERICA!
DO NOT SUPPORT WAL-MART!
Watch the documentary “Wal-Mart: The HIgh Cost of Low Price” and REVOLT AGAINST WAL-MART!
More details here:
http://www.walmartmovie.com
Wal-Mart is evil!
All of you are getting wrapped up in the love/hate Walmart argument. (and there are good arguments on both sides)
However, all of you are missing the real story: Shaun is indeed correct, Walmart has sold out all Green PC’s in all of the 600 store they put them in.
Does that sound like a poor seller to anyone?
More like Walmart caved to MS pressure claiming that people were just installing pirated copies of windows
After all who would want to run Linux;-)
Okay, I shop at Wal-Mart . . . for some stuff.
Like, for example, if I need beer, cigarettes, a pistol and condoms all in one stop.
It just sucks I had scratch to “Linux PC” off that list.
“Walmart is an absolutely fabulous anti-poverty program. It has accomplished more than any government program, without taking a dime of taxpayer money. “
Totally false. Wal*Mart did more than any company or administration to make the poor people poorer, especially in rural areas (destruction of local economy). Also, they are doing it at the expense of taxpayer’s money (welfare for Walmart employees).
Check the facts first!
Maybe this documentary will help you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart:_The_High_Cost_of_Low_Price
“After all who would want to run Linux;-)”
Well seriously, how many *consumers* would? I’m WAY geekier than the average american consumer, and certainly more computer savvy than the average WM customer, and I certainly can’t be bothered to fiddle with a machine like you have to fiddle with a Linux box. I mean, that’s why I use a *Mac*. I’m sure there is an audience out there for it, but I still say it won’t have a mass appeal until it has a unified interface. Or at least a more sensible one. And yes, I ran Yellow Dog for years on an iBook. It was a fabulous web server than I couldn’t play Halo on.
@ MidWest Mac
So… you obviously plan on killing a hooker and then blogging about it tonight.
Ya see what kind of people shop at WM?!
@ Marian
This is correct. It made poor people poorer, and gave them carnival-quality prizes so they wouldn’t notice.
MacDailyNews = MacDailyOpinions
This site is never news oriented. Why do you bother with an opinion section when all you do is inject crappy statements into every supposed news story. What a waste.
Hopefully Apple won’t pull some of its ad dollars after your attack on WalMart customers.
No stereotypes on this site. Just news. Right. What’s next MDN? Racial comments? Fat jokes? Anything else you feel worth adding to a simple story?
MDN isn’t funny.
@name
I live in Montreal and unfortunately we have Wal-Mart here. Taxes. although important and not the reason for being absent in your neighbourhood because Quebec is the most highly taxed region in NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!
It is because of key demographics of dense population and cheap labour. To put it in perspective, Canadian Tire sells quality stuff in comparison.
I feel sorry for the people trying to save a buck by shopping there because in many cases they wind up paying more.
Why is this so?
Because if you buy a cheap tool, and it breaks, then you have to rebuy it. In the long run it would have been cheaper to buy a slightly better quality tool from the get go. Therefore the poor get screwed and Wal-Mart makes even more money……sad.
I’m with you, MacBill.
I also heard Karl Rove bought the 911 detonators from Wal-Mart.
“What’s next MDN? Racial comments? Fat jokes? Anything else you feel worth adding to a simple story? “
I can see you’re new. If you don’t like the conversation on MDN, just wait 5 minutes.
@ Buster
My god, I cringe when I see people buying Wal Mart tools. Or bikes. I just want to help them.
Wal-Mart tools have a lifetime warranty.
That way, people keep coming back….
(actually, they do sell Stanley. Not exactly Klein, but they do hold up. And everybody deserves a tool that holds up)
Not new. I love macs, but this site is so skewed. I am emailing apple and showing them MDN’s take so they will withdraw ad dollars.
@ TowerTone
But Stanley is their *top* end. Most people buy stuff that’s even cheaper. And those $30 DVD players… I know of at least 5 have died in under 6 months. I wonder how much our trash output has gone up under the WM dynasty…
Landfills of the world, rejoice!
@ honest
Good luck with that.
don’t get me wrong, C1. I’m not defending them. Just their right to do business.
And I see crappy tools at almost every discount store I shop.
When I was an industrial (union) electrician, we had a saying about shit tools. “They are the best tools money can buy. At Wal-mart”.
No luck needed. You can’t talk like that and expect ad money from a company like Apple. So far they have had about twenty emails about it, and when I called they said they are getting calls and promise to do something about it asap.
‘Sure, I’d prefer if Apple products were ‘Made in the USA’, but they’re not. In fact, there’s really almost no such thing as ‘Made in USA’ anymore. Even crappy American cars, electronics and appliances are assembled from parts gathered from everywhere.’
That’s true. Nearly anything that says ‘Made in the USA’ just means ‘assembled in the USA’.
‘I tried Linux about five years ago, and thought it had real potential. All they had to do was fix up the UI a bit, make it easier to use, and they would have a Windows-killer. But five years later Linux still hasn’t gotten their act together. Every distro is either ugly as hell or too hard to get simple things to work. I can only conclude that Linux developers simply don’t get it.’
They really don’t! They just don’t seem to make the connection that your average non-geek doesn’t want to waste their time tinkering with their OS. Until that changes, Linux will never be preferred as a consumer tool. That is the old way of looking at technology, and there are just waaaay too many fingers in the pie for things to gel cohesively at this point.
@ Honest
I bet.
@ TT
Re: tools
Point taken.
However, every bicycle they sell is a shit breather.
@Name:
The Linux distro is called gOS. its a pretty cool concept. All apps are online rather than on the machine.
http://www.thinkgos.com/
@UltraVisitor:
You need to take another look at Linux. Nobody has to compile the kernel anymore. The UI’s are just as good as OS X. The major issue with Linux is still wireless since Broadcom refuses to provide specs for their wireless chipsets.
Check out the new KDE desktop: http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/guide.php
Or look at Compiz, which completely blows away the OS X desktop: http://compiz.org/Home/Videos
By the way, I have 3 Macs. I agree OS X is a better overall experience than Linux on the desktop, but don’t discount Linux either.
Lighten up, people. The 56×29 was priceless. Listen– WalMart does cater to a certain demographic. Remember that this is the company that got rid of their online music business because their shoppers do not purchase online– same reason to pull the plug on Linux machines. By the way, the music that WalMart does stock is often censored. I remember the Rob Zombie album cover that did away with his pentagram markings. Censorship usually equals low-brow thinking. It is what it is.
How come people only consider the families who shop at Walmart, at not the families who make the products that get sold at Walmart? Last I heard, $5 a day was cheap labor, even in Asia.
I guess people like the illusion of being fair, just, and righteous, because it requires less thought than considering every person on the planet a human being.
I actually saw the Squidbillies at a Georgia Walmart.
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Amazing how may people are defending/supporting Walmart and not Linux. I find that funnier than the comments.
@Honest
You’re a tool.
“Censorship usually equals low-brow thinking. It is what it is.”
Actually, censorship is not allowing a particular thought to be exchanged with others in any form. Those CDs were available elsewhere.
What Wal-Mart did was marketing. I don’t know that they do it as much now, but it was nice to know in the 90s that my son could buy any CD he wanted at Wal-Mart and I wouldn’t freak.
Thank you, Mrs. Al Gore.
“Censorship” from the Apple-supplied widget dictionary, “is the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc. and suppressing unacceptable parts”.
This definition, TowerTone, not yours is what Wal-Mart did in the 90’s. They suppressed the “unacceptable parts” as they deemed fit for our children. I don’t know about you, but I’d prefer to parent my own children, not have Wal-Mart do it.
One could argue by your definition that what the Chinese government did in Tiananmen Square was “marketing”, not censorship.
Linux works fine and, if setup properly, is rock solid. The software management system is far better than Windows and OSX. Clicking on the Firefox icon for the internet, and the Thunderbird icon for email is not rocket science.
The unified interface argument is BS. There is no reason for less choice, and the ability to customize it for an individual or company is a bonus. As with OSX, I can run Windows virtualized if I wish.
Is it perfect? No. Does it need improvement? Yes. Do you need to spent copious amounts of time at the command line and recompiling the kernel? No.
The main issues people have with the OS is the same as going from Windows to OSX, expecting the new OS to be setup and work the same as the old OS. Anyone who has helped a new switcher will know what mean.
Wal-Mart makes it so convenient and cheap to buy stuff, that most people just end up buying more stuff (aka junk) than they normally would.
I’m glad they ditched the gPC’s.
you know I read and reread the MDN take…they never said anything about the quality of the people that shop at WM. A lot of you made assumtions about what they wrote but in reality all they did was highlight the kinds of products that most people seem to buy from WM. Based on that shopping list (and believe me that shopping list exists) its no supprise that people going into a store to buy slimjims may not be in the market for a computer, not to mention a strange and unknown thing called a Linux computer.
I think the people who got their panties in a twist need to examine their own elitism since that statement made their mind instantly go to low class people. Middle class people can like slimjims too ya know.
Check yourself there, Cider.
“officially examining” is not the same as a corporation offering what it thinks its patrons want.
Does 7-11 sell Playboy?
Are the 10 Commandments allowed on court walls?
Do you know what acceptable norms of decency are?
Wal-Mart did not raise my kids any more than NBC did by playing cartoons on Saturday morning instead of porn. Clear?
Wal-Marts action was a decision based on a perception of decency, put forward by Mrs. Gore and others, that labels should be placed on material to warn parents, just like movies and TV content. And what happened? Frank Zappa and Don Henley go to Washington to piss and moan about censorship. So a different approach was tried.
You also had to be 16 or 17 to buy some CDs for awhile. Good.
Now when the government starts telling the record companies to quit pressing material that it feels is wrong, then you can start throwing about the silly and overused notion of censorship.
Until then, consider who it is that wants the return of the “Fairness Doctrine”, and what censorship really is.
Let’s see . . . Wal-Mart did a test in 600 stores by selling a PC with an OS that no one has ever heard of at a price point ($199) where even people who don’t know much about computers would stop and think, “Wow, they must really use cheap parts in this PC in order to sell it for $199), and we’re surprised that it failed?
People who want Linux computers aren’t going to buy them at Wally World. They’re going to build their own or buy them online.
Also, the article doesn’t say how many of those PCs were returned to Wal-Mart.
I steal music for minors.
Sorry, typo… I steal devil music for minors.
@Sus
You’re a tool too. I have professionally used more operating systems than anyone here, and that does not include version numbers. From appliance OS to mainframe, I have used almost 20. The Mac OSs have been the best consumer OS since 1984. Leopard is by far the best consumer OS that there has ever been. This article says it all:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2273495,00.asp
For once an honest article without any blinders on.
Linux is a great OS, but it is crap for the general user. Yes, you do have to go to the command line too many times with Linux. Ever try installing Acrobat Reader on Linux? You cannot avoid the command line. Try asking John and Jane Walmart to do it. Pathetic.
Forget driver installation and support. It stinks. It absolutely sucks ass. Why? Because the whole open source community is full of dead enders who cannot complete a job and support a product. If you want to fish around SourceForge all day long looking for drivers that might work and might be supported, have at it.
Install Leopard on a MacBook Pro and it is as smooth as silk. Install Vista on a MacBook Pro and it is as smooth as silk. Install XP on a MacBook Pro and it is as smooth as silk. Install Ubuntu on a MacBook Pro and it is painful.
Linux is great for appliances, servers, and lab applications. But it is horrific for the general user. Don’t lie to people and try to tell them that Linux is as good or better than Leopard. Lie to yourself, that is fine. But don’t waste these people’s time.
Wal-Mart has made some very poor decisions regarding Linux-based computers. This history of bad choices goes all the way back to the Lindows PCs in 2002. Wal-Mart’s latest batch of Linux computers — the gPC and Cloudbook — were doomed to fail from the start. For one thing, Wal-Mart inexplicably chose to use a new version of Linux called gOS. While a nice concept, the gOS is still months if not years away from a “stable” release. Also, the gPC and Cloudbook both use VIA motherboards. But VIA does not actively support Linux in the form of drivers, nor has it released any relevant source code to open source developers. This has prevented the open source community from making decent drivers for VIA hardware either. So many users have reported that the gPC is unstable and underpowered. The Cloudbook was only released last month. But early reviews for it haven’t been very promising either.
Had Wal-M
art chosen to use Ubuntu 7.10 with Intel or AMD hardware for its latest Linux PCs, I bet that they would have been much more successful.
@ Lie Nucks
“I have professionally used more operating systems than anyone here, and that does not include version numbers.”
AND MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD!!!
Let it be known that a certain former first lady who is running for the presidency of this wonderful country is a former Walmart BOARD MEMBER, yes, she was a member of the board of directors there. She does not list it in her resume, as that would not fit her target audience.
So, all you Bush bashers think about that one a while…..
@ChrissyOne
If AM your father.
Uh Oh, my beer helmet just broke and I’m out of Slimjims. Where to go, where to go…
@ChrissyOne
By the way, I am at Walmart. Would you like me to pick up that mumu you wanted?
“Ever try installing Acrobat Reader on Linux”
Yes I have it open now, came preinstalled with SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop. If you’re too cheap to spend money on Linux be satisfied with KPDF.
btw you don’t need to recompile the kernel to use Firefox. The problems with Linux come when inexperienced people start tinkering with the software.
So you spent like 10 mins using each OS did you?
@TowerTone
~ “perception of decency” is the key here. If someone other than the artist forces him/her to change the album cover (ala Jane’s Addiction, Rob Zombie), that is censorship, and it is wrong. If Ms. Gore wants to add warning labels to music as an “advisory” for parents, good for her.
If Wal-Mart wants to sell Jane’s Addiction or Rob Zombie, they can do so, but do NOT change the art. Wal-Mart can keep its “perception” of what people want to themselves.
Incidentally, TowerTone, you’d like it in Canada– here, liquor is not sold in the supermarket. Every grocer, including the Costcos and Safeways of the world have constructed stand-alone liquor stores beside the main shopping stores. I guess you’d call it an “acceptable form of decency”. I’d call it an unnecessary waste of money.
At least our court rooms and public schools don’t have the Ten Commandments nor the Lord’s Prayer anymore. I’d call THAT an “acceptable form of decency”.
@@Lie Nucks
Thank you for proving my point. Joe and Jane Walmart are not going to know what the hell you are talking about. What they more than likely will know, after years of using Windows, is that they will need to go to Adobe.com to download Acrobat Reader.
Here is the instructions from Adobe for installing the Flash Player:
Installation instructions
.tar.gz installation
1. Click the “Download .tar.gz” link. A dialog box will appear asking you where to save the file.
2. Save the .tar.gz file to your desktop and wait for the file to download completely.
3. Unpackage the file. A directory called install_flash_player_9_linux will be created.
4. In terminal, navigate to this directory and type ./flashplayer-installer to run the installer. Click Enter. The installer will instruct you to shut down your browser(s).
5. Once the installation is complete, the plug-in will be installed in your Mozilla browser. To verify, launch Mozilla and choose Help > About Plug-ins from the browser menu.
.rpm installation
1. Click the “Download .rpm” link. A dialog box will appear asking you where to save the file.
2. Save the .rpm file to your desktop and wait for the file to download completely.
3. In terminal, navigate to the desktop and type # rpm -Uvh <rpm_package_file>. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root user). The installer will instruct you to shut down your browser(s).
4. Once the installation is complete, the plug-in will be installed in your Mozilla browser. To verify, launch Mozilla and choose Help > About Plug-ins from the browser menu.
YUM repository installation
1. Click the “Download .rpm” link. A dialog box will appear asking you where to save the file.
2. Save the .rpm file to your desktop and wait for the file to download completely.
3. In terminal, navigate to the desktop and type # rpm -Uvh <rpm_package_file>. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root user).
4. Once the installation is complete, in terminal, type # yum install flash-plugin. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root user).
5. To verify the plugin is installed in Mozilla, launch Mozilla and choose Help > About Plug-ins from the browser menu.
6. To get the most up-to-date Flash Player in the future, simply type # yum update flash-plugin in terminal. You will not need to repeat steps 1-4.
You got it bad, Cider, and you don’t get the point.
Those artist can choose not to have their material distributed by Wal-Mart. That was their choice.
As far as the supermarkets, I have never been in one in the States that sells liquor, either.
Do they have porno magazines at the check out counters by the bubble gum and Snickers in Canada? You know, where the pictures are not “censored” from anyone in line to view? Do you see where this is going? You have to draw the line somewhere.
I could care less what someone wants to record or sculpt, or print or take a picture of, but that doesn’t give them the right to distribute it if it doesn’t pass the local standards of decency.
Now if you are running a huge supermarket chain, you might find it easier to have some of the artist left off of the shelf, or have the lyrics removed, or the cover art changed, or the recording altered to make it easier to sell at all of your locations.
And if the bands don’t like it, they can sell it through other channels. That doesn’t stop them from recording it, or performing it, or selling it, so it is NOT censorship. I’m sorry to say this, but you have a very childish view of what censorship is, as if anyone has the right to force their absence of values on someone else.
Now answer me this; do you actually buy your music at Wal-Mart? Because Target has a much better selection and price.
And since they didn’t go as far as Wal-Mart in changing the product, they picked up a large chunk of business, Wal-Mart eased up on restrictions, and some of the rappers and head bangers got a clue.
BTW, notice any difference in these two album covers?
http://www.google.com/musica?aid=4BLOIKX53BE&sa=X&oi=music&ct=result
Wasn’t Wal-Mart that did it.
What exactly is Wal Mart. Is that like K Mart or Big W, you know, a big mall department store/chain??
It’s where you buy stuff for your walls…..
just kidding
http://www.walmart.com/
LOL! This doesn’t surprise me in the least. I tried Ubuntu on 3 separate occasions and Kubuntu and OpenSuse Linux once and it was awful. That of course was when I was a Windows users but thank God for the Mac!
With a current 0.67% desktop market share and little to no third party support by the major software developers, this will never appeal to the GP.
I’m looking for Dell in the near future to follow Wal*Mart and cease to sell it’s current line of Linsux computers.
I have to say I’m disappointed in MDN too. Something crossed the line. This will affect my interest in reading your articles to some degree.
Wal-Mart is capitalism at its finest. It was once a small business itself, you know. Economies will adjust. It is great being able to go to Wal-Mart and Costco and buy food at sometimes a third or half the cost. But even these companies can’t be everything to everybody. Savvy small businesses will adapt and prosper, new small businesses will be born, the ones that don’t know how to adapt will be put to rest.
Who are you going to complain about next, Amazon?
Stop crying and believe in capitalism.
See how it starts, the party line being droned out like zombies. Bunch of lemmings being led to the cliffs, and Mac fanbois cant be happier. Man you guys need to check your pompous attitudes at the door and realize you put your pants on one leg at a time.
Oh and der Fuerhers time will end as does everyones, then where will you bois be? Goodluck on your continued indoctrination.
Jim-
I heartily disagree, Wal-mart is capitalism at its worst.
Pure, unbridled capitalism is as bad as pure unbridled communism. I don’t want to live in a world with no controls in terms of economics, I’m sure most people will agree when they really think about it.
Heres a good example of capitalism in its purest form: Drug Cartels. Pure capitalism. Because in that “business” one can do anything or undertake method to eliminate their competition.
In this sense Wal-mart is predatory & abusive… sound like any other companies we know of?
Crash-
Goodwins Law. We win. Thanks for playing you may now leave this thread.
The Dude is bang-on except that it is Godwin’s law. Ignore Crash…his mom wants him in by curfew.
Jim….”This will affect my interest in reading your articles to some degree.”???
To some degree? WTF does that mean. You will only read half the article? You will ponly be 72% interested in any MDN article? You will be 100% interested in some but only 42% interested in others?
I find MDN’s comment section totally irrelevant now.
3 or 4 good comments that actually have anything to do with the article, hundreds that are tired spewing of political delusions or elitist crap that confirms windows/linux users opinion of Mac users.
Shouldn’t we be talking more about Linux and less about Wal-Mart? Anyway, for those of you have tried or want to try Ubuntu, you really should take a look at <https://help.ubuntu.com/community> Much better documentation than exists for Windows or Mac — IMHO…
Walmart didn’t pull the Linux PCs because of poor sales. The boxes regularly sold out. I suspect that they were pulled because they’re too hard to support and that’s also why they’re still selling them online. If you’re tech savvy enough to order a PC online then you’re gonna need less support. Linux boxes are great if you plan to take up personal computing as a hobby. I’ll bet that because of the super low price, most in store purchases were made by people buying their first computer. And no matter what the operating system, first time computer users need a ton of support.
I use Ubuntu at work for scientific applications (e.g. ARD, oligopicker etc) . This is because the software was written for it not because it is sooooo user friendly. Other than geeks or for someone who believes 100% in open source software or cannot afford to buy an OS and software, I do not see why anyone would think it is better than OSX or that crapola of crapola OS…Windows.
I get the distinct impression that most of you have never tried Ubuntu Linux 7.10! Unless you’re into the latest Windows-based games — in which case you wouldn’t be using any Mac except maybe a Mac Pro with Boot Camp — Ubuntu provides a very nice user experience. OpenOffice, Firefox, Evolution (email), the GIMP, lots of puzzles & games, and much more are pre-installed in Ubuntu. Add to this a “smart installer” that can automatically detect and install additional programs you need as you need them… Now, I’m the first to admit that Ubuntu still has a few major bugs to fix. But most of them should be eradicated with the release of Ubuntu 8.04 in April.
The main problem with the Wal-Mart Linux machines is that they use an unstable version of Linux called gOS. Imagine what people would say if Apple released a buggy beta of OS 10.6 tomorrow, but marketed it as a stable release. That’s what the gOS version of Linux is at the moment. Furthermore, the hardware in Wal-Mart’s Linux PCs comes from perhaps the LEAST Linux-friendly manufacturer in the entire computer industry. Perhaps whomever has been in charge of Wal-Mart’s newest Linux PC strategy wants Linux PCs at Wal-Mart to fail. Or, maybe her/she is just ignorant of Linux issues. Regardless, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if one or more of the people involved in the Linux project for Wal-Mart are paid “consultants” of Microsoft.
Lastly, I wouldn’t go so far as to say Ubuntu is BETTER than OS X or Windows. But it is definitely EQUAL to them in many respects. I’m not a Ubuntu apologist. From time-to-time, intermediate Linux users will need to use the command line. And advanced Linux users will probably find themselves using the terminal on a daily basis. But novice PC users probably won’t even open the Ubuntu terminal except to enable DVD playback — an easy copy/paste procedure using instructions from the URL in my previous post.
None of today’s operating systems are flawless. And any Mac user who argues that OS X is perfect is simply delusional.
I mean no disrespect, but I think all of you Linux guiys posting about Ubuntu etc. would fall under the umbrella of the geekier users . . . I’ve tried it, and I took a peek at the stuff you’ve posted, and for me, it only proves the whole point. This is NOT how I want my computer to work! Sorry! It may very well be perfectly intuitive for you, and that rocks, but I do not want to have to deal with any of this stuff, pretty much at all. I’ve been using the Mac now for about 12 years, and I am so grateful they didn’t fold, forcing me to choose between Windows and Linux. Honestly, believe me, take my word for it, friends: I’ve done my homework with Linux, and I just don’t want it.
@ Forgive me…
Well, I cannot deny that I’m a bit geeky. But I think that your premise of Linux equals geeky is flawed. In fact, I have personally helped three of my friends switch from either Windows or Mac to Ubuntu. None of them are geeks. And their ages range from 12 to 65. To be fair, I did help in the initial configuration of each of my friends’ Ubuntu PCs. But in the past, I’ve had to help these same friends setup their Windows and Mac machines too.
You say that Ubuntu is “NOT how I want my computer to work!” What do you mean? Are you talking about the need to use the command line for certain tasks? For most Ubuntu 7.10 users, the only reason to use the command line is for one-time tasks like enabling Medibuntu and installing the Adobe Flash Player. 99% of everything else a normal user will ever do in Ubuntu can be done graphically.
I too am a longtime Apple user — since the Apple IIe in fact. And there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that OS X is better than XP/Vista. Incidentally, OS X and Linux are both based on an operating system called Unix. That’s why they’re both immune to viruses.
I don’t think that it’s fair for you to tell people that they don’t want Linux. Let them try Ubuntu for themselves with a LiveCD. A LiveCD contains the Ubuntu operating system itself as well as the installer. So you can test Ubuntu without installing it.
By the way, when is the most recent time that you’ve tried Linux? Was it Ubuntu? I’ll agree that some Linux distributions aren’t very user-friendly. I’ll also concede that until about 12-18 months ago, no version of Linux was ready for the consumer desktop. But Ubuntu Linux 7.10 is worth trying on a LiveCD before dismissing.
@facts
I’m happy to address your points (I was away from my Mac when I posted the above). No, it’s not the command line; at this point I am indeed a power user and I take trips (though mind you, they would be entirely unnecessary to the average user) to the terminal, it is the way Linux and Windows work, as in the way the user interacts with them. I use my Mac in my profession as an artist, and it is just so intuitive for me to use, I’m talking GUI and system mechanics here, not installing drivers and what have you. As a tool, it feels very natural. I have been in situations where I’ve been forced to use Windows for the same tasks, and from the user interaction standpoint, it makes EVERYTHING more difficult. From that same standpoint, Linux works very similarly to Windows, and though this is a separate issue and not any Linux developers fault, the software just isn’t there yet. I’m sorry, but for most pro work, Gimp just doesn’t suffice (and that may be a yet).
I am well aware of OS X and Linux’s common Unix underpinnings, but friend, I’m not doing my art in the command line, and for this discussion, for now, basic functions such as email/internet/office work aren’t relevant. They are both very solid systems, to be sure, but we have finally reached a point where I can do my work and not even feel like I’m using a computer, and that’s saying something.
I realize that this perspective may sound very singular in regard to my profession and how we have evolved toward using digital tools in contexts they were perhaps not envisioned for in the beginning, but there’s a caveat: EVERYTHING works this flawlessly and intuitively in OS X. I think this will only be more so when touch has been integrated into the desktop OS.
This is where I think the division in our thinking is. A lot of the wonderful things that have been pointed out about Linux just don’t matter all that much to users like myself-I don’t need an OS that is endlessly configurable IN THAT WAY. Do you get what I’m trying to say? I’ve been using OS X from it’s initial release; it has nearly everything I want right now, and it continues to get better.
And that’s why it’s my preference. I am not telling anyone else they should avoid Linux-by all means give it a try. It will certainly evolve as well (and I’m all for it-healthy competition is always good). I’m really not trying to put anyone down, but this is a no brainer for me, and with all of the exposure these past few years, many of my other friends and acquaintances as well; I’m sure there are other pro users out there who might have similar views.
@ James,
I’m writing this at a really late hour my local time. So forgive me if I fail to make much sense. Anyway…
The main fact that I’ve been trying to present in my posts is that Ubuntu and some other Linux distributions today are more than capable of catering to average computer users and their needs. Wal-Mart’s Linux computers are NOT indicative of today’s Linux — for reasons that I’ve already mentioned.
I also feel that each individual has his/her own unique computing needs. Mine have led me to prefer Ubuntu Linux. Yours have led you to choose OS X. And I think that it’s important to remember that neither Ubuntu nor OS X are flawless.
I suppose I’m in the Linux heartland doing scientific computing but I prefer Linux over OSX, it’s just better suited to what I do.
I realise that artists would prefer OSX but saying that everything works better with OSX just isn’t true.
I really can’t believe that so many people have trouble running Ubuntu (It’s on a live CD for gods sake). At best it’s just Mac fans spreading Linux FUD at worst it’s people who can’t handle a seven step install process. Scary.
@ James
It has nothing to do with Linux FUD, thats Microsoft, not us. Fact remains for the AVERAGE or even novice user (read 95% of the computing public) Linux is waaaaaaay over their heads. Nor are they prepared to even come to grips with it.
I have Linux on a couple machines and its interesting, but in no way shape or form going to appeal to the masses on the desktop.
Installing is over t most users heads. Installing aps is a joke. Ask Joe Wal-Mart shopper to unpack a .tar? Yeah they’ll give you the right answer on that one… More likely they will wonder if its related to some sponsor of Chewing Tabacky in NASCAR…
Until there is a well thought out GUI installer for the major Linux distros there is no way the masses are going to adopt Linux on the desktop.
Linuxes greatest strength is also is greatest weakness. Anyone can write a distro, anyone can add to it thus it can be in any state of flux depending on how aggressive people are behind it. At the same time that very freedom causes no end of confusion for even people who are moderately tech savy.
Just to clarify guys-I didn’t say everything necessarily works better in OS X, just more intuitively and easily; that very well may be tantamount to ‘better’ for a lot of people. I’m not spreading FUD about Linux; as a matter of fact, Linux-based servers are often used for the number crunching aspects of many projects such as rendering and the like. You’d be hard pressed to find it on a work machine though, and when people break to do something fun or check their email, it’s not usually a Macbook with a fresh Ubuntu install they pull out. A lot of the people I’ve encountered who still fear computers have the mistaken belief that ‘Windows’ and ‘computer’ are synonymous; I’ve yet to see Linux change anyone’s mind (doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened), but I know a lot of folks that have been astonished when they try a Mac.
I also wanted to say that I feel a lot of this backlash is due to the fact that during the last couple of decades the personal computer had it’s day as the central factor in the shaping of our future cultural landscape; I think a lot of the resistance we see stems from our shifting away completely from the PC paradigm; with technology such as the iPhone, which I consider to be in its infancy, the tools will become invisible to the point where doing what I do digitally will be virtually indistinguishable from the traditional way in it’s implementation–that is to say the reliance upon what is traditionally thought of as a ‘PC’ will have ceased altogether. Touch, and smaller, integrated technology is the future, make no mistake. This will make end user systems that do not evolve with the shifting, user oriented landscape increasingly irrelevant in the mainstream. I think this makes a lot of technicians very nervous–it’s funny to see luddites within the community that brought the word back into parlance to begin with, techs and geeks aren’t enjoying the rock star status the boom of the ‘nineties engendered anymore. I on the other hand am excited at the possibilities and am very confident that Apple is among those at the forefront of delivering these things to everyday users. Again.
I wish you guy would take your Linux discussions to the appropriate forum.
This sight is for partisan political arguments…….
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Other than the Linux slight, the tone in this thread is starting to resemble slashdot. LOL. Maybe if all the Walmart shoppers were given a Linux PC free and forced to learn all about it, they could get more geek jobs that pay more and afford more expensive sh*t and shop elsewhere – that’s why Wallmart pulled the Linux PCs.
@Dude
Here are some examples of Linux FUD.
“Installing is over t most users heads. Installing aps is a joke. Ask Joe Wal-Mart shopper to unpack a .tar?”
The average Joe Wal-Mart will never have to unpack a tar file, if it’s not included with the distro they probably don’t’ need it.
“Until there is a well thought out GUI installer for the major Linux distros there is no way the masses are going to adopt Linux on the desktop.”
Hmm the 7 step GUI installer in Ubuntu is a little bit too complicated is it?
“Linuxes greatest strength is also is greatest weakness. Anyone can write a distro, anyone can add to it thus it can be in any state of flux depending on how aggressive people are behind it. At the same time that very freedom causes no end of confusion for even people who are moderately tech savy.”
You can try this out. Go add some random code to Ubuntu and see if it makes it into the next release
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”raspberry” style=”border:0;” /> If open source software had such poor organisation I don’t think Apple would use it as extensively as they do.
“It has nothing to do with Linux FUD, thats Microsoft, not us.”
Apple would love to see Linux die as much as Microsoft. It’s a little bit uncomfortable when your competition is giving away a superior product.
#1 – People want a name brand
#2 – People want a Laptop
Try again walmart. giving up is not the best answer