Wired’s Kevin Poulsen (Threat Level) judges Apple fanatics vs. Ron Paul enthusiasts to find out who’s nuttier.
MacDailyNews Note: In September, Mac users were called fruits; a few more ingredients and we’ll become a nice Trail Mix.
In the past two weeks, THREAT LEVEL reporters have managed to draw the wrath of two different cultural tribes renown for their resolve and certitude: Apple fanatics, and Ron Paul enthusiasts.
Apple fans pummeled Kim for her story on the iPhone’s controversial security model, while Ron Paul boosters went after Sarah for her piece on a recent spurt of deceptive spam promoting the Republican presidential candidate. Some representatives from each group got vicious, resorting to personal smears, sometimes laced with misogyny.
In other words, just another day at the office; smears and ad hominem attacks are an occupational hazard of journalism. But having two backlashes at about the same time provides us a rare opportunity to compare the religious fervor of two net-savvy cults of true believers.
Full article with handy comparison chart, in which “Ron Paulites win by a landslide,” Think Before You Click™, here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “The Dude” for the heads up and also for inspiring our Take below.]
Obviously, Wired subscribers are the real nut jobs.
MDN, a perfect take!
ACtually – Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate that makes sense – is a strict Constitutionalist.
If you are sick of government – and I think we all are on BOTH of the current pathetic sides – RP is the only one to vote for!
Ron Paul is bought and paid for by Soros, Media Matters, Move on, Clinton……
https://www.ronpaul2008.com/iphone
MW: easy.
Ron Paul is a good man and is the only candidate that is for real. The rest are just playing political games as usual.
I hope the american public will give him a fair chance
Brief Overview of Congressman Paul’s Record:
He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.
He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.
Just make sure you have your ad blocker on before you visit Wired’s site so you don’t give them any ad views for publishing their biased crap. If you don’t have an ad blocker, just get Ad Blocker Plus for Firefox and then you can set it to block ads for biased sites like Wired. I have Ad Blocker Plus turned off for MDN as I support the site by letting the ads load in my browser. But I never support biased sites like Wired, I block all of their ads.
“Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate that makes sense – is a strict Constitutionalist.”
I agree. He’s the only one who is really being honest about the real reasons for the quagmire in Iraq and terrorism.
@rush
guess what, EVERYONE is bought and paid for. I just prefer the ones who are more honest than the others.
Oh goody, I can hardly wait! I love Trail Mix!
Rush is bought and paid for by Soros, Media Matters, Move on, Clinton……
awesome take MDN. i’m happy to be one of the nuts in that mix. anyone can see that some apple fans do fall under the “nuts” category, and even if they’re a minority of the total user base, they’re louder than everyone else and so become the most prominent representatives (online, anyhow) of the apple community as a whole. there are a few nuts here on MDN and mac sites everywhere, but its the sane ones who make the mac community one of the best out there.
and by “sane”, i mean the people who can, without crying themselves to sleep, say the following:
“apple messed up, and i expect a fix because they’re pretty good about fixing problems” instead of “it’s someone else’s fault” or “HOW DARE YOU BETRAY ME WITH YOUR GLOSSY SCREEN!!?!??”
OR (this one will stir controversy)
“although i prefer apple’s computers, microsoft does have a few products i enjoy as well” instead of “F*CK MICROSOFT EVEN IF THEIR GAME CONSOLE IS FUN AND THEY MAKE DECENT MICE!! I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT ANYONE NEEDS OFFICE AND THAT IF SOMEONE’S WORKPLACE REQUIRES IT TELL THEM TO OVERHAUL ALL THEIR MACHINES WITH MACS RUNNING IWORK!!!”
that was fun. any other sane mac users have more to add to that? =)
I think we need to differentiate ourselves. There certainly are Mac Fanatics out there, those who have “drunk the kool aide” and will brook no slight – real or imagined – against any product any way related to Apple. And then there are the users like my mother who “like” Apple because it is just so easy. Most of us fall in between or are more defined by our relationship to Windows (we won’t talk about them).
Mac Fanatics are an embarrassment. They cause more problems than they solve. Nobody actually listens to them and the rest of us have to prove we aren’t them before anyone will listen to us. Quite a reputation they’ve created for us all.
Time to grow up, chillun. Even on the Internet, they can tell you are not rational. Or have the intellect of a rabid junior high school nerd. Or have had it up to HERE with FUD. Give them constant, but pleasant and well-reasoned support and they will be won over. Scream at them and a) they’ll hate you and b) they’ll stop listening. Of course, there’s always the trolls, but the answer for them is to deny them the hits, the attention, they crave.
Dave
From the ronpaul2008 link above:
The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideals of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle.
I’m starting to understand where these pro-lifers are coming from. It’s not pro-living but pro-unborn. This must be due to some religious influence. If an unborn child is innocent, then how come he carries the baggage of original sin according to the RCs?
A very significant percentage of the “innocent” unborn of Iraqis and coalition forces that served in Iraq die in the womb or are born with horrible defects due to genetic damage caused by radioactive dust from depleted uranium shells. Those responsible for this war crime should encourage abortions and pay for them, not to mention medical and funeral fees or compensation for the suffering of their parents, or even the for cancers that will affect the parents. That sounds more like “pro-life” to me.
i just realized that in my post above i called myself a nut and went on to make fun of the “nuts” in the mix. 8:00 am and the first cup of coffee hasn’t made its run yet. **YAWN**!
Just like everything, if people have anger in their lives outside of Apple, and something revolving around Apple gives them a chance to channel their anger, they will.
Just make sure you have your ad blocker on before you visit Wired’s site so you don’t give them any ad views for publishing their biased crap. If you don’t have an ad blocker, just get Ad Blocker Plus for Firefox and then you can set it to block ads for biased sites like Wired.
If you hate it so much, Booshudaa, why even visit?
I have Ad Blocker Plus turned off for MDN as I support the site by letting the ads load in my browser.
There’s definitely some bias going on here, bro – perhaps not political, but bias nevertheless. So, as long as you support the “bias” it’s OK, right?
well said, DLMeyer! glad to hear the sane apple fans putting in their two cents. =)
From the ronpaul2008 link above:
We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.
Does that mean he will pursue the British and US governments for depriving the inhabitants of Diego Garcia of their properties and banishing them to Mauritius (where many died of heartbreak) in order for the US to develop a military base in the island?
Oh wait…government and military doesn’t qualify as “special interests,” eh?
@ DLMeyer,
Sensible post. Mac fanatics are kind of like the terrorist that give all muslims a bad name and force every normal muslim to prove that they aren’t one of them.
I’m certainly glad that the Mac fanatics haven’t resorted to suicide attacks at Dell stores…but I feel it coming any day now that Leopard is here.
The answer is simple. One group is lead by a kook-fringe, political whack job…….the other is a presidential campaign for a kook-fringe political whack-job.
Obiously, we are equally nuts, just in different ways.
I like WIRED.
“Or have the intellect of a rabid junior high school nerd.”
That got W. “elected” twice.
Nutters will be found on all sides. But the characterization of Mac fans as a cult is utter bullshit. I have always thought of cults as collections of losers following some megalomaniac’s dream. And the members’ practices include self destructive behavior. Remember the nuts who “left their bodily husks behind” [ by committing ritual suicide] to allow their spirits to ascend to their cult’s space ship following comet Hale-Bopp as it passed by earth? That truly was a cult.
What cult gleefully sticks with its master inflicting virus, spyware and other security nightmares on its members? And these members spend massive amounts of time doing masochistic ritual cleansings of these sadistic inflictions and pay regular tithings to security companies who, vulture like, feed on the blood [money] of the cultists.
The fact that Macs are in the minority – for now – does not make its happy users cultists. And Mac users laughing at Windows sufferers do not make Mac users arrogant, just properly contemptuous towards Windows masochists.
> I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT ANYONE NEEDS OFFICE
You poor sod. Numbers is a glorified graphic calculator, and Pages can’t handle the weight of some of my Word files without choking. When Apple gets off its low-horse of delivering simplified applications for kidsumers and delivers some powerful apps instead then you’ll have a case. Office apps are bloated, I agree, but they are powerful – and I’m not talking about the stupid macro features included that are a security nightmare.
And how I wish Spotlight would stop searching for something until I’m finished setting up the criteria. It’s a beachball nightmare, and the fix is so simple: give me a preference-choice as to WHEN I want Spotlight to start searching. But Nooo…. Less is More, eh? It’s not when Faster is Slower or Less Can’t Do the Job.
It’s not when I have to manually resize evey New Window, eliminate the sidebar and select List View because there is no option to select such criteria for the default finder window.
Criticism makes us stronger; blind loyalty and lack of skepticism makes us patsies. Join the MW: “party.”
This is not to be thought of as support for Ron Paul, but let’s try some facts here.
“I’m starting to understand where these pro-lifers are coming from. It’s not pro-living but pro-unborn. This must be due to some religious influence. If an unborn child is innocent, then how come he carries the baggage of original sin according to the RCs?”
Not all religious faiths believe this.
“A very significant percentage of the “innocent” unborn of Iraqis and coalition forces that served in Iraq die in the womb or are born with horrible defects due to genetic damage caused by radioactive dust from depleted uranium shells.”
I thought the Iraqis had no nuclear program and no WMDs of any kind? Also, I can safely say that no unborn coalition forces have been killed by spent uranium shells.
“Those responsible for this war crime should encourage abortions and pay for them…”
What? Who exactly are you talking about?
“…not to mention medical and funeral fees or compensation for the suffering of their parents, or even the for cancers that will affect the parents. That sounds more like “pro-life” to me.”
So, having somebody encourage and pay for abortions is “more like pro-life”, you are quite lost, aren’t you?
And just to totally sink your complaint against Ron Paul, he is totally opposed to the war.
Zune fanatics and Ru Paul enthusiasts know their nuts better than anyone.
“Brief Overview of Congressman Paul’s Record:
He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.”
Sounds good so far.
“He voted against the Patriot Act.”
That’s not so good unless you are are terrorist.
“He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.”
Had he been in the majority, Saddam would be able to go back to his simple life of murdering hundreds of thousands of Kurds, running rape rooms, attacking neighbors, and funding suicide bombers. Sounds great!
“He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.”
He also writes articles that appear in the American Free Press and The Barnes Review, which are Nazi newspapers. He has also accepted donations from known neo-nazis and not returned the money.
Oh I know he’s totally opposed to the war. That ain’t enough in my book. Let me spell it out for you, quick-reading Quad core.
> according to the RCs –> Roman Catholics
> innocent unborn of Iraqis and coalition forces…
As for the WMDs, it’s the coalition forces that used depleted uranium shells and depleted-uranium bunker-busting bombs that are causing “mass destruction” of human life.
1) Learn to read;
2) Google is your friend. Click the link.
This is great! I am crazy over my macintosh and I have lost my mind over Ron Paul! I would rather be nuts than boring any day. It just goes to show that creative people can be smart about politics as well.
Oh yeah, my husband thaought I was CRAZY when I wanted to by stock in Adobe and Apple 15 years ago. I guess I’m not so looney after all.
Lol, a Wired writer calling someone a nutter….pot, meet kettle…
> Had he been in the majority, Saddam would be able to go back to his simple life of murdering hundreds of thousands of Kurds, running rape rooms, attacking neighbors, and funding suicide bombers. Sounds great!
Sounds better than killing millions of Iraqis by poorly thought-out war and occupation plans, indeed. On this we agree.
As to the poor Kurds, learn your history. They were encouraged to go against Saddam and then abandoned to suffer the inevitable retaliation of a known killer!
@DLMeyer You hit the nail right on the head except that criticizing fanboyism on MDN is like criticizing the NSA for having a strong tendency towards secrecy. I found it odd that nowhere in this lead did they mention that they’re one of only two featured players in the section on Apple franaticism.
Too close to home? Here’s the pertinent excerpts from the WIRED chart, so no one has to click.
“Kim Zetter writes an accurate article on what experts say is the poor security architecture of the iPhone’s operating system.
Convinced that iPhone security is a-okay, blogger Daniel Eran Dilger falsely accuses Kim of basing the entire article on a single source. (Three sources are named in the Wired story.) including this quote “I dare you to have Zetter rewrite the article after interviewing more than one source. Perhaps this would result in an informed, balanced piece rather than a simple regurgitation of the message one individual fed her as a story.”
MacDailyNews re-reports Dilger’s claim as fact, then declines to correct the false story. Apple fans on the site’s message board pummel Kim with misogynist remarks.”
I quit reading Eran Dilger a few months back when I realized he’d say or do just about anything to “defend” Apple from any perceived slight. Which for him is so easy to do that he often takes on competing fanboys for not being sufficiently slavish in their praise. (John Gruber) I’m not going to quit reading MDN anytime soon because I understand and am for the most part amused by the slant but episodes like the one featured in the WIRED piece do make me wish that they’d exercise a little more discretion.
I consider myself an Apple fanboy but reporting on a story that’s an outright fabrication like it’s factual and then not owning up to it afterwards hurts all of us.
“As for the WMDs, it’s the coalition forces that used depleted uranium shells and depleted-uranium bunker-busting bombs that are causing “mass destruction” of human life.”
Actually, mass destruction of human life was when Saddam was gassing hundreds of thousands of his own people, paying money to suicide bombers, etc.
As for now, the mass destruction of human life, both iraqi and coalition forces, is caused by terrorists.
As for RCs, I had interpreted that as “Religious Conservatives” so thanks for the clarity. However, Catholics are not the only pro-lifers out there. For instance, Ron Paul is not Catholic.
Who’s Ron Paul?
We gave him the gas….
Kucinich and Thompson should have an edge for being married to the hottest potential FLILFs.
(credit to the Daily Show)
“Sounds better than killing millions of Iraqis by poorly thought-out war and occupation plans, indeed. On this we agree.”
We don’t agree at all. You clearly support Saddam Hussein, a mass murderer and torturer. I support the coalition forces that brought him to justice. As for the “millions of Iraqis”, there have not been millions of innocent Iraqis killed in this war. Further more, many of those that have been killed were killed by terrorist insurgents.
“As to the poor Kurds, learn your history. They were encouraged to go against Saddam and then abandoned to suffer the inevitable retaliation of a known killer!”
And why were they willing to go against the killer that you support so much?
Hey MacDailyNews Readers,
I’ve been an avid reader of this site for 8 or 9 years and I can remember back in 1997 when everyone thought I was crazy for supporting Steve Jobs and Apple. The reason was real simple: always bet on people. Steve Jobs stayed the course and schooled everyone – nobody can deny this. I discovered Ron Paul about 9 months ago and have become an avid supporter of him as well – for the basic same reasons I did with Jobs. Paul’s message has never changed in over 30 years and is a very principled, honest man. 2 Days ago he raised $4.2 Million in 24 hours, something no other politician in history has ever done online. Seems the crazy ones out there have found their man, and, just like Jobs, he will win. I’ve been to several of his rallies (which can be seen on YouTube) and was part of the many thousands of people cheering his message of a constitutional government on. Save my post, reference it a year from now, and see the power of freedom and the Internet play itself out.
There are none so blind as those who will not see. Amen.
@macromancer Ron Paul is hardly the only candidate being honest about the reasons for the quagmire in Iraq. I’ve yet to hear him say anything that doesn’t sound like a rehash from Joe Biden (to name one) from two years ago.
He is the only Republican, but that’s just because none of the other Republicans are talking about it at all.
Rory Refusing to allow women the right to decide whether to carry a child to term or not sounds pretty “big government” to me.
Jeez, I just hate dumbf#ck writers who sic their ad hominem dogs by writing articles like this. Perhaps someone should write an article asking the important question of who’s stupider: bible-zealot, brain-clogged creationist Romney followers or Stockholm-Syndrome PC users.
Here’s all you need to know about those “crazies” who understand Apple — it’s Apple’s stock performance vs. Microsoft’s performance:
1 Year: AAPL ~+140%, MSFT ~+25%
5 Year: AAPL ~+2,120%, MSFT ~+30%
10 Year: AAPL ~+4,000%, MSFT ~+120%
If superior products, superior research, superior vision, superior understanding of the market and customer, and whopping investment profits make me nutty, give me my straight jacket!
As for Ron Paul, I suppose some people are threatened by a politician who actually thinks for himself, and prizes the Constitution and the people of this nation above all else.
@Quad Core
“He voted against the Patriot Act.”
That’s not so good unless you are are terrorist.”
Yes, because the Patriot Act has been so effective in bringing the terrorists responsible for 911 to justice. That’s why we’ve had bin Laden in custody all these years and Al Quaeda is virtually extinct. Oh, wait….
Does Steve Jobs know you have a mac?
Quad Core, just because you think one side in a quarrel is wrong does not mean you think the other side is right. Between George Bush 2 and Saddam Hussein, I’d say Dubya is the greater evil … which should not be taken to mean I in any way support(ed) Hussein. Hussein was only an evil force in Iraq (and the Middle East) while President Bush is an evil force both there, and here, and anywhere else there is oil. (FYI: there is no reasonable evidence that SA was in any way connected to the 9/11 attack, just a lot of FUD from the Administration – and we Mac lovers know something about being the targets of FUD, yes?)
Your quoted material strongly suggests Angus does (did?) not support Hussein, unless you are saying he favors “known killers”? Try being a bit less reactionary, a bit less black and white, OK?
Given the ratio of Ron Paul supporters to Mac supporters in this thread, I’d say the Wired article is right about which is nuttier. I mean, seriously. I almost can’t talk about US politics on a forum without hearing someone proselytizing the virtues of that guy, I can hardly go a day reading Digg without seeing some article about how Ron Paul farted and it smelled like roses, and I know at least three people IRL who are convinced he’s the best candidate for President- and I’m in Canada!
> You clearly support Saddam Hussein <– Wrong.
> …Saddam Hussein, a mass murderer and torturer. <– True. But we’ll argue forever about whether the cure was worse than the disease. A lot of Iraqis were better off under the despot than they are now. A lot more of them were alive too; and most of their babies were normal and born alive. Do you see now the connection to pro-life? Click the google link in my earlier post.
> I support the coalition forces <– I have all the respect and sympathy for the troops. That’s why I support their efforts to gain recognition for all the suffering caused by depleted-uranium shells to them and their families, as well as to innocent civilians who are getting poisoned even as you read this.
> there have not been millions of innocent Iraqis killed in this war <– killed, maybe not; died as a consequence of the war, you should definitely look that up.
> Further more, many of those that have been killed were killed by terrorist insurgents. <– It’s all black and white to you, eh?
> And why were they willing to go against the killer…? <– You’re kidding, right?
Oh, and djfred reminded me of my other point: the Patriot Act. Quad Core, You seem to believe this law somehow deters terrorism. We had all the information we needed to deter 9/11 well before the planes took off. And at least a couple of those planes could have been “diverted” – OK, shot down – had the Air Force and Reserves not been ordered to Stand Down! The “Patriot Act” is nothing more, or less, than an abridgment of your civil rights and mine. I don’t know if you feel threatened by this, but I do. I want the government to get a warrant before they invade my personal space. I want the right to an attorney should I be taken into custody. I want the right to question the government should I believe they have violated some law or otherwise overstepped the bounds of decency. You do realize that, despite their own documents that state otherwise, they still feel that torture is a valid means of obtaining valid information? That they are willing to train people to torture others, then release those people into the “general population”? Do you want to get into a dispute with a neighbor who has been trained to believe torture is OK and, by the way, here’s how?
I don’t believe you can be so foolish.
Dave
Ron Paul says some cool things, but the problem with him is he would also get rid of; the FDA which we need to keep the drug companies from completely poisening us and making sure we don;t get killed by salmanilla, lead etc; Dept of Education, really it’s needed; Social Security; The Police, whcih we actually need. Ron Paul sounds good, but when you really think about what he says he is promoting anarchy, whcih sounds nice, but is acually not all that good for us ; )
Why would I “Think Before You Click”. Sounds like a good, fun read and there’s some truth to the comparison. Lucky for MDN, Ron Paul came out worse.
I remember that dumb bitch Kim’s story about the iPhone security model…she came down on it because it doesn’t have individual user profiles. Imagine that! A single-user profile on a single-user device! I’ll say it again, dumb bitch doesn’t know the difference between a phone and a desktop computer, and she shouldn’t be writing for Wired.
DL makes some excellent points, but the continuing problem is that fanatics, even if few in numbers, tar and feather the rest of us.
Are all Arabs/Muslims terrorists? Maybe .00000001% are. Are all kids juvenile delinquents, beating up homeless people at random? Again, 00000001% may be.
All it takes is two or three total jerk offs to slam a misgiuded or M$ aplogist columnist to give us all a bad name. It was only a few days ago that someone was stating that Walt Mossberg was on the Apple payroll over his latest review. Anyone but a fanatic, or a total idiot, knows he is probably has as high a level of journalistic integity as is out there.
Unfortunately fools, idiots, fanbois, and fanatics will always be with us, and the more “rational” lovers of all things Apple will suffer.
QuadCore,
You seem to be confusing terrorists with insurgents.
The two are not the same, although they can overlap on occasion.
Here’s a scoop.
The nuttiest of them all are those who buy Microsoft software and expect it to be, at least, adequate.
Ron Paul, right after ZuneTang
So the war was about getting rid of Saddam and not terrorists or oil? Guess what: it’s about retirement too…very comfortable retirement.
The People vs. the Profiteers [Vanity Fair]:
Americans working in Iraq for Halliburton spin-off KBR have been outraged by the massive fraud they saw there. Dozens are suing the giant military contractor, on the taxpayers’ behalf. Whose side is the Justice Department on?
Excerpts:
Whatever the government’s reason for keeping the qui tam cases under seal, its secrecy has so far obscured the true picture of alleged fraud in Iraq. For now, only slivers of the whole are visible—thanks to the handful of cases that have been opened to scrutiny. [My emphasis]
“In my mind, one of the basic reasons, maybe even the basic reason, why the war has gone badly is war profiteering,” says Grayson. “You could say that the only people who have benefited from the invasion of Iraq are al-Qaeda, Iran, and Halliburton. America has spent so much money that we literally could have hired every single adult Iraqi and it would have cost less than what it has cost to conduct this war through U.S. military forces and contractors.” [My emphasis]
In Grayson’s view, a nightmare combination of jacked-up bids, waste, kickbacks, and inflated subcontracts means that as much as half the value of every contract he has seen “ends up being fraudulent in one way or another.” He adds, “Cumulatively, the amount that’s been spent on contractors in the four-plus years of the war is now over $100 billion. Pick any number between 10 percent and 50 percent—I don’t think you can seriously argue that the scale of the fraud is less than 10 percent. Either way, you’re talking cumulatively about something between $10 and $50 billion.”
I wonder how many pockets will see that money. My guess: well under 2,000 @ 5 to 25-million apiece, if not 200 at 50 to 250-million apiece.
Both Apple and Ron Paul are awesome! Check him out if you haven’t already and you’ll see what all the excitement is about.
But does it matter? No!
as much as half the value of every contract he has seen “ends up being fraudulent in one way or another.” He adds, “Cumulatively, the amount that’s been spent on contractors in the four-plus years of the war is now over $100 billion.
I am SO glad I’m not an American. Just think of all that wasted tax money, and/or debt being bought up by the billions by China.
Year after year, the same unconstitutional agencies are funded, the same unwise programs are perpetuated, and spending continues to grow. Politicians have mortgaged the future of this nation to the sum of 70 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, and our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don’t eliminate wasteful spending in Washington, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future — and ours.
As a nation, we are confronted with a choice. We can ignore the problems and continue down the road to financial ruin that tax-and-spend politicians have paved for the American people, or we can bring about change to a system gone horribly wrong.
The time has come for Americans to wake up and put an end to lawlessness in Washington by both Democrats and Republicans.
The 2008 election has become our battlefield, and those in Washington who have fail to uphold their oath of office deserve to be the first political casualties.
Sadly, Americans have been entrusting their liberties to tyrants and fools for so long they have forgotten what it truly menas to be an American. They are no longer capable of recognizing a true American who is running for the presidency to take a stand against the same big givernment they complain about day in and day out.
Every candidate but Ron Paul supports staying in Iraq and every indication is we’re going to be ther for a while. No doubt in my mind the draft is coming. When it does, remember that you could have done something about it. Me. I recently retired from the Marine Corps. I’ve done my time.
Enjoy yours!
Notes for the next war president: Don’t do it. Figure how much the war would cost, multiply by the typical over-run, and bribe the despot with 10% of that amount. Use 25% to fund development of the despot’s oil reserves (that’ll surely be at the root of the next war). Result:
1) You’ve saved 65%;
2) You now have a happy despot who will do your bidding;
3) You’ll have saved your troops and the despot’s citizens from death or injury;
4) You’ll get all the oil that’s available providing you supervise the investment.
Now here’s the trick because something’s missing.
5) Tell the American taxpayers it cost you double and pass the fraudulent 35% off to companies controlled by your political contributors and cronies and friends in places outside US jurisdiction.
6) Give a taxcut to the richest 1% of your citizens ’cause they’ll fund your party’s next election – say 10% of the amount we’ve saved. Their companies might go under because of the lack of military contracts but you and your friends will be able to retire nicely.
7) That leaves 20% to help pay for anything you want, including benefits for people thrown out of work by the lack of military contracts. Wait…is that pork I smell? Fund a new fighter or submarine program. Give your nation’s poor absolutely nothing because…they’re not about to vote for your party anyway. Not the smart ones, anyway.
WIRED = TIRED
Wired is no longer an entity that matters.
Give it up guys.
This is obviously meant to get the Mac users riled up and get hits on the TIRED site.
Don’t fall for it.
@Booshudaa
Somehow you find MDN a non-biased site?!!
Incredible!
MacDailyNews Take: “Obviously, Wired subscribers are the real nut jobs.”
Looks like I’m a nut job, then.
/been called worse.
//usually by people I wouldn’t have anything to do with.
///had hoped for better from MDN.
You libs are still sick twisted dipshits….
The answer would probably be myself, since I fall into both categories.
But as for people saying Ron Paul is bought and paid for, at the risk of sounding like an idiot, let me ask: were you kidding? Because whether or not you like him, the fact is that 1) ever since about a year into his first term as Representative, not a single lobbyist has bothered coming to his office, and 2) he is not being sponsored or supported by a single corporation or “cause”, except I suppose the people (the average donation to his campaign is $40).
There’s a lot to like about Ron Paul — mostly the fact he’s the only Republican with the courage to speak truth to power.
On the other hand, his platform is way off in the true lunatic fringe.
Everyone — left and right — can agree with about half the Libertarian platform, but it’s not the same half! For those on the left: are you REALLY willing to give up government protection of food, drugs and the environment; government-funded police, fire and emergency services; public education; public roads and sewers? And you on the right: are you REALLY willing to legalize drugs, prostitution, gambling and child pornography; let dictators overthrow friendly allies; and give up our place in the world?
To both sides: I don’t think so.
Ron Paul is simply the Angry White Guy’s answer to “None of the Above.” Sort of like Pat Paulsen, Steve Colbert and Ralph Nader were for the left. Enjoy the race, but don’t think for a second people really back his play…
Hey “Rush”
If you think that Ron Paul is bought and paid for by those groups, you need to have a word with Alex Jones. He’ll set you straight.
MikeK obviously hasn’t heard one word Ron Paul has said. That, or his powers of interpretation are underdeveloped or malfunctioning.
Article X of the U.S. Constitution states, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The only powers enumerated to Congress are those expressed in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. Period. If they want to do more, it requires an Amendment to the Constitution.
Ron Paul’s position is a simple.
He advocates small, limited Federal Government. Just as the Founding Fathers intended. They, better than anyone in our nations short history knew first hand the results of big government, and they wrote the Constitution to restrain the power of government, not the people.
He advocates a returning power to the States [and the people] where it legally and rightfully belongs. Whether or not drugs, prostitution, abortion, etc., etc., is outlawed is a matter for the States to decide. It is not within the limited scope of federal jurisdiction to decide these matters.
Americans should be outraged that the federal government has usurped the power of the States. Instead, Americans have ignored the truth.
What a shame!
Glad to see I’m not the only one who knows what has happened to our once fine nation. Sad fact is the next president is already determined and we are al just along for the (a) ride. Ron Paul is a fine man, but not the next POTUS.
@Col. Angus – unusual mix of insight and BS! cool **
MDN magic word – test, as in a test of patience to follow this thread
Best comment in this thread so far (and by “best”, I mean insane:
“Between George Bush 2 and Saddam Hussein, I’d say Dubya is the greater evil”
-Let’s see, the man who liberated 25 million Iraqis,
-the man who routed the Taliban from Afghanistan freeing millions of women from oppression and giving the citizens the right to vote.
-the man who has managed to prevent any further attacks by terrorists against American interests around the world while his predecessor managed to fail completely on this point.
-the man who has set a new tone in the white house for civility (does this guy EVER say anything bad about his enemies – not that I have ever heard).
-the man who believes firmly that his responsibility is to spread freedom to the rest of the world (the evil neo-con that he is, how dare he think that people deserve to live free).
ugh, the people on mdn are even dumber than comparison.
DLMeyer, if your not nutz now, you soon will be hanging around here.
The loons have taken over, either join them or perish.
QWACK QWACK QWACK
see I’m a duck
…Wow, just.. wow.
It’s like some kind of cult. You guys really do believe your own bullshit? I had though “cult of mac” was just a cute way to make fun of mac users, but no you really are that fanatical.
Jay, I so wish you were right, but your percentages are way off the mark. I believe them to be somewhere between 0% and 5%.
Fact:
George Bush will leave office the following:
1. The worst unemployment record in history. (Keep in mind, Dept. of Labor only reports new unemployment insurance claims to calculate the numbers. When a person runs out of unemployment insurance, they are NOT counted in the remaining numbers.
2. Worst stock market performance in histoy. (Yes, you Republican fools, when Clinton left the Dow was at 12,000. Almost 8 years later, we are barely above 13,000.)
3. Worst environmental record (he hires a mining lobbylist to head the Mine Safety Dept., which stops enforcing fines of mine operators. This is why we’re having mine collapses.)
4. Worst violence record. (Under Clinton, violence was down dramatically; under Bush, it’s going up)
5. Worst home market since the Depression.
6. Worst performance of the dollar, ever.
7. Most deficits ever, in real terms and in inflation-adjusted terms.
8. Worst war performance ever. (Iraq has lasted longer than World War 2. What have we gained so far, other than make Iran and al-Qaeda more powerful? Nothing. Clinton presided over the wars in Eastern Europe that stopped genocide, and we had not one U.S. death. NOT ONE.
There are quotes of Sean Hannity, claiming the war in Bosnia was a fraud, to help Clinton’s image, and that “the President has no plan.” “He’s going to get our boys killed.” Guess what, sucker, we won the war! And not a single US soldier died!!
9. Wages going down. Meanwhile, payroll taxes have gone up. And the dollar is down over 10%. Guess what, Republicans, your precious tax cut has helped no one! All Americans, due to the dollar’s fall, have gotten a 10% paycut!!
10. Oil at an all-time high. Nuff said.
11. Foreign policy blunders like claiming we love democracy in Iraq – yet, we support nothing but dictators and strongmen in the Middle East — in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Yemen, Kuwait, Jordan, Egypt.
12. Nuclear foreign policy disasters – we try to stop Iran from getting nukes, yet we appease North Korea who already has one!
13. LOL Eight years later, we have given up on even find Osama. What a joke.
14. Took us to war based on lies. (Despite the Plame thing, the documents re: Iraq WERE PROVEN TO BE FORGERIES. AND WE HAVE NEVER INVESTIGATED WHO FORGED THEM.
15. Katrina. While Harry Connick and Sean Penn were saving lives, our government claimed they couldn’t get in the city that first five days. LOL Even John Travolta loaded up his personal 747 and flew down there with supplies.
16. Broken military. Don’t believe me, read Military Times and listen to the generals. FACT: The Pentagon is looking into letting new recruits into the military who have FELONY CRIMINAL RECORDS, INCLUDING DRUG ABUSE CONVICTIONS.
Bush and Cheney committed treason by outing a CIA spy. Whether you believe she was covert or not – if a low level FBI agent leaked her name and agent status to say, Iran, and let them know Plame was investigating Iran/Iraq nuclear efforts via a front company named Brewster Jennings they would BE TRIED FOR TREASON AND ESPIONAGE.
Can you imagine the outrage, if Hillary and Al Gore leaked the name of a CIA agent during the Bosnian war? And that they leaked the name of this CIA agent to a liberal writer at the NY Times, because the agent dared to say Clinton lied about the war in Bosnia?!!
Imagine that Hillary was caught saying “she’s fair game” about the agent?
Then, what if Congress and the liberal media was caught parsing words by saying, “well, the CIA agent wasn’t covert at the time so it doesn’t matter!”
And imagine if say, Sandy Berger was the guy who helped leak this stuff and he was convicted but Bill Clinton pardons him right before he goes to jail?!!!
Can you imagine the vein-busting outrage by the Republicans? Certainly, there would be an attempt on his life… And he would most certainly be impeached and they would have tried Clinton for treason AND hung the death penalty out there as a possibility.
Give it up, Peach, you’re preaching to the converted or the deaf. It is not in human nature to easily abandon existing beliefs by making the effort to think. Save your powder for the next flare-up ’cause these forums die quickly.
Something that people don’t seem to realize is that under a Paul administration, you would NOT lose public education, emergency services, or any of the other things provided by the federal departments (of Education, etc.): you would lose FEDERAL INVOLVEMENT in STATE education, emergency services, etc., as the Constitution requires. In most cases, drugs would probably remain illegal: the only change would be whether it was a federal law or state law that was outlawing them. And for the states that want legalization of drugs, fine! Their citizens decided they’d personally rather not pay the taxes to fund enforcing a ban on them. You wouldn’t even lose Social Security or Medicare: Paul wants to take the money currently being wasted maintaining troops in 150 countries around the world and use it to pay for entitlements for the elderly, but having the young neither pay taxes for those programs nor receive the benefits when they grew up (unless, of course, the people of a certain state decided they wanted to keep similar institutions.) The dollar would be backed by gold and would be far more stable. And that’s it. Hardly sounds like anarchy.