“They weren’t comparing apples to oranges,” Diane Gasper-O’Brien reports for The Hays Daily News [Hayes, Kansas]. “But when school board members in Hays USD 489 compared Apples to Dells, the price tag on this bag of Apples was just too high.”
“So the board voted 5-1 on Wednesday night to go with Dells — a PC brand — for the next technology lease for the district,” Gasper-O’Brien reports.
“The Hays district is in its final year of a three-year lease with Apple, from which it is leasing 1,800 computers yearly, including 1,450 laptops — 1,100 at Hays High School alone. The the new four-year lease with Dell will begin June 1. The district decided to switch to a four-year lease agreement to help spread the cost through an additional year,” Gasper-O’Brien reports.
“The difference in total price between the two proposals for the four-year lease was $200,000. ‘I don’t think we have any choice,’ board member Greg Schwartz said,” Gasper-O’Brien reports.
“At a technology work session earlier this month, school board members and the district’s technology committee decided to keep the annual amount coming out of capital outlay to $920,000 or less. Dell’s proposal was $919,909, while Apple’s was $945,295,” Gasper-O’Brien reports. “With all bids and all budgets included, the four-year total from Apple was right at $4.3 million, while Dell’s was $4.1 million.”
“‘This recommendation will meet our needs and serve what we need to have served in the most economical way possible,’ Woods said. While Woods said she knows some district employees would prefer staying with Apple, she thinks everyone will be on board as ‘team players’ come summer,” Gasper-O’Brien reports.
Gasper-O’Brien reports, “Woods said the Apple laptops will be available for purchase by the general public when the new computers come in. She and VonLintel will release the process for buying those laptops later this week.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: So, how much will Hays school system be allocating for antivirus software and subscriptions? How will they replace iLife? What are their additional software costs? Has Hays factored in Mac vs. PC support costs? What are the estimates for Total Cost of Ownership and was that factored into the decision or was sticker price paramount or the only consideration? Did they understand that Apple Macs are OS-unlimited while the Dell PCs are OS-limited?
We feel sorry for Hays students and teachers today. Too bad the wrong decision was made. Macs are less expensive than Windows PCs: http://www.macvspc.info/pages/03.html
Contact info:
• Board of Education, USD 489 Board Members, boe@hays489.k12.ks.us
• Fred Kaufman, USD 489 Superintendent, fkaufman@hays489.k12.ks.us
Related articles:
Kansas school district can’t see much difference between Apple Macs and Windows PCs – April 17, 2007
Kansas City schools plan calls for 6,000 Apple Macs – April 12, 2007
Chicago area school district tech director wants to phase out Macs for ‘more appropriate technology’ – December 18, 2006
Harvard Medical School CIO picks Mac OS X over Linux and Windows – November 30, 2006
4,800 students in Microsoft’s backyard receive Apple Mac notebooks – September 10, 2006
Michigan middle school students get 350 Apple iBooks – August 30, 2006
Nebraska high school provides nearly 200 Apple iBooks to all students – August 28, 2006
The Seattle Times: Apple Macbook is best computer for school – August 26, 2006
BusinessWeek’s Stephen Wildstrom recommends students pick Mac over Windows for first time – June 15, 2006
State of Maine awards middle school contract to Apple Computer for 34,000 iBooks – March 21, 2006
Happy St. Patrick’s Day! Ireland to roll out Apple Mac solutions in 3,500 primary schools – March 17, 2006
Apple beats Dell: lands deal to supply 12,675 iBooks to Henrico County Middle Schools – February 09, 2006
Group questions wisdom of dumping Macs in favor of HP Windows PCs in Boulder, CO schools – February 06, 2006
After dropping Macs, Henrico officials work to protect students’ new Dells from viruses – August 29, 2005
Students and teachers: going Mac could save you money on software – August 23, 2005
The Seattle Times: Apple iBook ‘a great laptop for students’ (with no viruses or spyware) – August 22, 2005
Chatham County (NC) rolls out 1,000 of eventual 7,400 Apple iBooks for students and teachers – August 17, 2005
Henrico citizens stampede for $50 Apple iBooks – August 16, 2005
Henrico blasted for choosing Dell laptops with Windows XP over Apple iBooks with Mac OS X Tiger – May 09, 2005
$20,000 difference?
They must be mad.
If not then I’d sue them for incompetence.
This is, unfortunately, typical of the mindset everywhere. It’s like buying a mediocre vehicle and not considering the cost of 15 MPG fuel (if you care about cost).
This is why Dell will stay ahead in market share, but won’t make as much money as Apple. This is why Windoze is so dominant.
Co’s like Dell have no way of making money without being mass sellers. Stupid stupid stupid. The whole thing.
These school board members have no clue. They just see numbers on the paper.
What did you expect from a bunch of hayseeds and bumpkins?
Clearly one of the factors they did NOT take into consideration is whether Dell will be in business by the end of their lease.
Please please Lord,,,,, I am trying hard NOT to make any Kansas jokes……help me….
Ignorance is bliss……
Kansas, apparently you’re not in Kansas anymore.
Kansas is the state that keeps insisting that “Intelligent Design” be taught in classrooms. Nuff said.
Unbelievable. Isn’t this the same state that forces its teachers to teach creationism as a fact?
I drove through Kansas once.
Best part was leaving.
Who would willingly live there?
How much can you sell the laptops for at the end of the lease — add that money into the mix.
Is Kansas in a declining phase, or what? Who would choose dells over macs with iLife when you’re an educator? That TCO must’ve looked outrageously good for the dells.
Penny wise and pound foolish.
Why do I think that iLife is not a consideration for an educational computer? And who cares about multi-OS capability (unless the School Board required it in their RFP).
The antivirus cost is a valid concern, as are additional software costs (though those may not apply, depending on what kind of licensing deal the Board has in place).
The higher average support costs may or may not be a concern, depending on whether or not the schools already have the people in place to support a Windows platform, or on other considerations. I work in a mainly Mac shop (roughly 90% Mac at the end user’s desk) and certainly have not seen the PC users cost us more in support than the Macs have.
IDIOTS!
And their state motto is “Ad astra per aspera” (to the stars through difficulties).
Indeed.
wow!
Its amazing how short sighted some people can be..
No doubt…IT support for he new Dells will quickly absorb the $200,000 difference….and over 4 years…they will pay a lot more than that!
Not too mention software cost for switching.
Unbelievable.
Crap will always cost less than quality(in the short run)
shiva,
EVERY major study not sponsored by Microsoft says that Macs cost substantially less to support and last substantially longer than Windows PCs.
Ah well. You win some, you lose some. I’m sure Apple will pick up a school district off Dell somewhere else.
Pity for the kids and teachers though.
I am a longtime apple user, and while I support the continued use of apples everywhere, I have to take exception to the attempted analogy of a Ford Escort and a Mercedes to a PC and a Mac. Mac users have long compared their computers to BMW’s – Small market Share, High Quality Experience. The example you reference seems to imply that the Ford escort gets 1/4 the MPG, costs 5 times more to operate and twice as much to insure. In reality it is the Mercedes that requires the greater outlay for gas, maintenance and insurance. I realize this was only cited to make a point but lets be a little more realistic. If the real numbers were so obviously skewed we would not even need to have this discussion, everyone would already be using apple.
Handing out a bunch of Doze machines to schools full of script kiddies with nothing to do after the corn is harvested?
Well, it might be OK. None of them can read, anyway.
HA HA – just wait till the bills for the IT staff for running ‘Doze come flooding in
That will teach them to shop only based on price.
It’s TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP that needs to be figured.
Remind me not to raise my kids in Kandyass.
So how do I go about buying one of the “worthless” Macs?
Headline: Kansas school district goes to Dell (hell)
200000 divided by 4 years and 365 days = $136.99/day
divide that by the 1800 served and that’s 7.6¢/day savings per person
Poor kids.
I’ve been teaching at a district in Kansas for 15 years and we have never had a PC except in the Tech labs. I was disappointed with Hayes decision too but my district is not changing. I will say that the laptops that Apple provides for schools have been the only Macs I ever disliked. But since I have disliked every PC I ever had, it doesn’t mean much. The lab Macs and teacher Macs are great. I also teach science, and on the matter of I.D., I have no comment. I love it in Kansas. You never know what the weather or politics will bring.
A Honda would be a better analogy for Mac’s
The Board will learn they made the wrong decision. It will just take time. Wait til the students and teachers that were using OS X now have to move to Vista. Ouch! They will be sorry. Oh, will they be sorry.
I have had my 800Mhz G4 iMac for 5 years now.
While I do want a NEW iMAC, the FACT IS, I don’t NEED a new iMAC.
I would’ve gone thru 3 PCs by now, ESPECIALLY with this VISTA crap, so what IS my cost ?
I have only upgraded my OS as the new ones came out, otherwise, no real major add-on costs, and best of all Z E R O TECH SUPPORT COSTS!
STUPID STUPID STUPID School system –
p.s. I am going to my 30th HS Reunion in a month – they issue every Freshman a new mac laptop – go figure (Catholic HS)
Mrejag – Dallas, TX
This will bite them in the ass, big time. It always plays out the same way.
The part time tech support, usually from knowledgeable staff (teachers) on site, will change to dedicated IT types who won’t always be there. A single bad download will incapacitate the network. PCs will have to locked down to the point of being inoperable. Which will be defeated by the kids anyway. Never mind the repair costs for systems that are proven to not be a robust as Macs.
Oh well. Just another crime in the litany of crimes committed in the name of the Lowest Bidder System.
Teaching creationism is right on.
Their decision may be short-sighted, but their beliefs are right on in my book.
Signed,
A God fearing Mac User
Glad were not in Kansas anymore.
I thought the school districts were concerned about the weight of the kids backpacks. Those poor little spines carrying around those big cluncky DELLS around. What a joke! This country is so back asswards
Shiva, so going by your claim, 10 PCs cost nearly the same to maintain as 90 macs. That sounds about right.
Could it be that Dell is practically giving computers away in an effort save its ass?
Translation: Kansas school district IT supervisor needs excuse to up his/her budget to become bigger player in school district.
Just my $0.02
Just as MDN point out the Hays School Board will have a shock at the end of each academic year when the bill for all those apps mentioned by MDN come in.
The parents should also demand a 24/7 365 day support line be provided and if lines are too busy this be an acceptable reason for late work.
I think the support cost would be Dell’s Presto service which is charged each and everytime an issue arises. Who pays for that?
I am not sure if the same Presto service is in the USA as I could not find it on the US website other than a forum user interested in Presto. Dell could introduce this to the USA for all customers overnight regardless of contractual agreements, Dell has the right to alter agreements without notice.
The thing is, which comes to mind, will there be another unexpected or unplanned over budget expenditure within a school district? More parents demand an explanation from their school board because cuts have had to be made and as to why junior won’t be able to enjoy a certain after class activity?
MW ‘process’ as in yet another process where a numbskull decision ends up with egg on the face.
The board had no choice. Like most governments that put out competitive bids they’re required by law to take the lowest one. If they don’t they get sued. Remember what happened when the school district near Atlanta chose Apple over Dell even though the Apple bid cost more? Very ugly. So yes, Hays, KS made a bad choice from our perspective. But they also made the only choice they could that kept them from facing lawsuits and recall votes.
Oakies
First, I’d like to ask the users of this forum to show a little more civility and lay off the Kansas jokes. Do you think it makes you sound intelligent by denigrating others?
Second, in defense of the school board, $200,000 is a lot of money to anyone and school boards have to get their money throuh taxes and referendums and need to justify every penney they spend.
Third, I’d love to hear more comments directed to the difference between the short-term and long-term consequences of this decision. Many have alluded to it. Additional IT support? Anti-Virus costs. Things like that. Anyone have some hard numbers instead of self-serving opinions?
@Kansas,
Nice reply. Hang in there and feel free to let us know how it goes in say 3 months after they do the transition. It will make for interesting reading.
PS, are you using Vista??? Pray that you are not.
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I have worked with schools before and found them filled with nice people (mostly) and that most of the administrators have NO CLUE about running…. er… much of anything.
Best of luck with your new systems.
en
I have to admit that I’ve never really been to this website before – But you guys are getting all hot and bothered because a school board in Kansas decided to buy Dells instead of Apples?? Really?? Unless your children go to school in Hays Kansas… then who cares? How does that even register on your give-a-sh!t meter?
@ No Squirt
You are wrong. “Ad astra per aspera” is a latin phrase put out by the school board. Roughly translated it means, “from ass to asshole’.
By the time this lease expires most of the board members will probably be gone. Aren’t those elected positions?
Darkness – The board had no choice. Like most governments that put out competitive bids they’re required by law to take the lowest one
Then all government computers should be running linux and open office as they are free.
School administrators spending taxpayer money opt for the lower costing solution-you dorks jump all over them.
School administrators go with the higher costing solution-they get butchered by the press, taxpayers and government officials but they get kudos from you dorks.
I’d say it was a no brainer-much like most of you here.
PS> Give up on the TCO-you will never get the average taxpayer anywhere to understand it. People in groups are stupid.
I say let them suffer for the errors of their ways. Price alone should not be the sole factor in whether or not to consider any kind of technology (whether Apple, Dell, Hp or your mom and pop store).
There is a space between your ears called the brain. Use it sometimes.
In Kansas:
A hayseed / country bumpkin comes across a set of rail road tracks stretching across the fields of wheat and thinks “hmmm… someone designed, built and placed these tracks here. I wonder why?” A train comes by… ‘wow, look at that! Now I know why the tracks were designed and created! For the train… what a great idea. I wonder who’s idea that was? I’d sure like to get to know that person.”
In California:
A hip urban evolved featherless biped comes across a set of rail road tracks cutting through the San Gabriel Mountains and thinks “hmmm… I wonder how these tracks got here? Hey… look at all this rock and stuff. The tracks and rocks are both hard… and look, there’s some metal in that rock…. the tracks must have sprung up from all this rock and metal and all. That’s pretty cool.” A train comes by… ‘wow, look at what else evolved! It’s amazing how these tracks and that train could evolve to work together so nicely. …. almost like they were created for each other…. nah… couldn’t be…. we all know that nothing exists that has not evolved by chance. Sure am glad I’m evolved!”
Again, if you use the decision by a school board to dog on Kansas as a whole, I don’t want to be in your camp. You bigots give Apple users a bad name.
Also, “creationism” is a term invented by atheists to denigrate the Christian theology that in short teaches “God made”. There are no known “creationists” except in the minds of Darwin-thumping Richard Dawkins types.
“Intelligent Design” is not a theological argument, in such as it says nothing about the nature of a creator, be the creator male, female, triune, multi-handed, or anything else. The term “irreducible complexity” is key, here; also, the basic concept that similarity in design reflects a designer; much like you can tell the works of Picasso by his signature. Don’t forget about “stair-step evolution”, either. ID does, however, require one of those “open minds” that they teach you to have in school, and not a lockjaw, slavering attachment to any particular scientific theory.
It is a struggle of good against evil Roger.
So after the initial slew of “Kansas, you ignorant slut”, comments, a little decency and common sense have crept into this discussion.
A government entity spent less money to get dells than macs. Don’t make fun of them. Justify you opinions.
Who cares. The morons will find out soon enough that the $200,000 they saved upfront will go right down the drain in additional support costs later.
i think the biggest mistake was extending the contract to 4 years. i don’t know what the replacement policy is for broken/failed computers, but there almost has to be a limit on it; suppliers don’t sign open-ended contracts that makes them liable for potentially an infinite number of replacements regardless of what happens to the computers. the dells will not last 4 years, probably most of them won’t last 3 years. so i think there will be additional costs that the school board will have to face up to in the last year of the contract that they are unwilling to face right now. they are putting off a problem and hoping it will go away and maybe they will be retired or off the board by that time. also dell is desperate and is also only looking at the immediate future and hoping that magically something will happen to take care of the outyear problems. both sides have got their heads in the sand unfortunately, and the kids and teachers are caught in the middle.
Woods said the Apple laptops will be available for purchase by the general public when the new computers come in
—
Can’t wait for the footage and the deathtoll…
Don’t these fools realize that $200,000 over 4 years is nothing. It will cost them that much to hire just ONE additional IT staffer to help with the new support burden that these Dell systems will cause.
So they’ll save $50,000 per year on the lease, but they’ll likely spend many times that amount in additional IT costs. Just flat out stupid. Sad part is, most ISDs in this country are run by totally clueless asshats like this, not just in Kansas.
@roger
There are posters on every board on the web that have a rant no matter the subject. We have them here at MDN. Every skirmish in the battle of OSs must be won by Apple. That’s the creedo here.
The fact is that Apple has to do a better job at differentiating its computers from all the PC cloners. Switching to Intel made Apple’s work easier in some respects, but harder in cases such as Hays, Kansas, where $20,000 is maybe a lot of money. Apple obvously needs a better pitch as to why that extra $20K will pay dividends to the good folks of Hays.
And all you idiots trash talking the people in Hays, just contain your stupidity. I’m a west coaster who has never stepped foot in Kansas, but I have little doubt that they face the same issues I do here when sitting in a local schoolboard budget meeting. Quiet being so smug with your “flyover” state and creationism talk. Your bigotry is showing.
WOW
Another suck for Dell
KansasFest http://www.kfest.org/
Actually held in Kansas City, Missouri
Oh but nevermind. You 13year olds don’t know what an Apple II is.
WOW Another sucker for Dell
I reckon the local authority IT managers “got” to the Board. It’s happenning where I live. They “advise” the board members that it would be cheaper to only support PCs, Macs are only for publishing, no need to train staff for two platforms, the kids should experience what they’ll use in the “world of work”, Macs are the same as PCs anyway, blah, blah…
I wrote to my local newspaper about it and quoted Jeff Adkins, referring to http://www.macvspc.info/, “The no-Mac rule is being implemented without regard to educational consequences because teachers were not consulted about it,… teachers ought to be able to choose the best tool for the job instead of being dictated to by people who don’t try to do the things I do.”
Thankfully they printed my letter.
I just read somewhere that Michael Dell uses Ubuntu Linux at home. If true, that’s hysterical.
Dell is biting the bullet big time on the IT costs. Don’t worry about the School District. Each major IT mess just pushes Dell that much closer to Bankruptcy.
@BustingTheSkullsOfIdiots: Who designed the designer? Your belief doesn’t explain anything, other than your brainwashing. Personally, I think the tooth fairy made everything in the Universe on the 3rd day, before resting for an hour and then delivering some coins to the newly created children. This is clearly proven by the fact that oak trees and pine trees both were designed with trunks.
@John
You are crazy.
What do you expect – it’s Kansas…
They can’t even do science – do you really think they can do technology?
But never fear GOD will be pleased… after all christian fascism doesn’t work well – when the knowledge base is growing – and with Dell in place that’s no longer a problem!
It’s really up to the Kansas school authorities to evaluate their costs to include anti-virus software and the additional burden of IT support that switching from the Mac hardware and OS will bring. They will have nightmares keeping the machines going, virus and pron free. Plus, purchasing software which would have been included for free with Macs is another item that should be included in their Dell purchasing budget.
If the school authorities made a whole service, software and support budget, we are sure that the Apple bid would be competitive.
It’s not up to us here (outside of Kansas) on a public forum to post hard numbers on that. That’s a Kansas school administration job. Which it appears they are unware of, or unwilling to do.
I’m afraid these children will be disqualified from all but the hottest and noisiest jobs.
It doesn’t seem to say anywhere what software comes on the Dell’s – I have to believe they come with anti-virus (A-V) and other protective software – but the maintenance of such normally isn’t included. We also have no idea if there is some sort of school subscription to maintain the A-V software – I work for a university and I know Microsoft and many other vendors discount almost to zero for academic pricing – but setting up servers to deliver A-V updates is still a cost.
Without enough specifics, there is no way to know if they were penny wise and pound foolish. They will find out soon enough.
As for the whole teaching creationism-as-fact thing, they got over that too.
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MDN Magic Word “then” – then if the parents were smart, they would by the Apple laptops being sold off
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@ McFly-
I know that studies show Windows costs more to support than Mac OS. All I said is that in my shop, that has not been the case (or at least not the $400 per PC per year that I’ve seen quoted around). Studies tend to show the average, or typical situation. There are exceptions. Perhaps this School Board thinks they are an exception to the rule. Maybe they’re right, maybe they’re not. Besides, has anyone here read the actual lease offers from Apple and Dell? Maybe Dell included antivirus software and other extras in their cost. If Dell is desparate enough for business, and by all accounts it could very well be, maybe they’re willing to cut their margins on the deal to razor thinness, where as Apple is not.
As far as life of the computer is concerned, why would that even be a factor? They’re *leasing* the machines, most likely getting rid of them after 4 years. It doesn’t matter to them if the machines would last longer than that, as I doubt they have any intentions of keeping them beyond their lease term.
They picked exactly what they deserve!
They will find out that who ever said that Macs and PC’s are the same will be fired within 3 months. That’s about how long I give that school before they have an all out virus/trojan breakout which puts all of there PC’s out of commission. Something which this no brainer didn’t think about when making his boneheaded decision not to mention ease of use for the kids.
So do we get a stampede to buy the old Macs like in Virginia?
This lease decision by the school district doesn’t reflect poorly on the people from Kansas. I ain’t going there no more.
@ BustingTheSkullsOfIdiots:
You, however, never cease to amaze me. You’ve read a silly pamphlet and are now an expert on how the process of Natural Selection is unable to overcome the lame argument of “irreducible complexity.” You regurgitate the nonsensical “argument” that the “basic concept that similarity in design reflects a designer” as if this B.S. is somehow scientific and has equal footing with true evidentiary scientific method. Using your brand of science it would be easy to conclude that if something looks edible it must be.
This isn’t about having an “open mind.” Your tired arguments have been demolished many times over. This is about you and your ilk catching up to real science. The stale arguments of “irreducible complexity” and “it looks designed so it must be designed” sound convincing to you because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the theory of evolution.
Your skull must really hurt by now.
@ BustingTheSkullsOfIdiots
Please, please, please do NOT try to start the “Intelligent Design” argument here. We already have more than enough political trolling, Windoze trolling, etc., without getting this silliness into a Mac site, too. There are quite a number of other fora for you to troll this way. Go there.
I think Apple’s bid was pretty low, considering it was ONLY $200,000 more (about 5%). And with Windows Vista. For their sake, I hope Microsoft gets service pack 1 out before this contract begins. At least the district will get money back from selling the current three-year-old Macs to the public. That money plus the $200,000 might just pay for the extra cost of hiring more IT people and the anti-malware software (probably not). A wonder how much the Dells will be worth at the end of 4 years.
Why is this web page making my iMac’s fan go crazy?
This story is reminiscent of the crap I hear about driving a diesel.
Them: “Oh, but diesel fuel is more expensive than unleaded gasoline. Unleaded is typically 30 cents per gallon less.”
Me: “True. But I get 50 mpg compared to your what? 25? So, you use two gallons of fuel to drive the same distance I drive on one. That means it cost you $5.00 to drive the same distance it cost me 2.80 to drive.”
Them: RCA dog look!
MDN Magic Word: seems. As in.. seems pretty simple to me.
I blame in-breeding.
Well you all know why the wind blows so much in eastern Colorado…Kansas SUCKS!
“…school board members and the district’s technology committee decided to keep the annual amount coming out of capital outlay to $920,000 or less. Dell’s proposal was $919,909.”
If that’s not a set-up, I don’t know what is.
And yet another opportunity to use the word “blithering”.
Hey Reality Check,
Here is something that possibly you and all the other Godless cretins on this site will find amusing. Enjoy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monsterism
@ Busting:
Richard Dawkins is god!
based on may of the posts here, the”country bumpkins” are the posters.
This is a government bid process. It is government, it is difficult, it is long and drawn out and it is political. Rarely does fairness or best interest prevail. In fact how do you measure best interest anyway. There is more than one interest at hand, How does the student learn best? How does the teacher teach best. What is responsibility of the governing body? What mandates are in place. etc.
The board came to their decision largely by nothing having to do with logic or fiscal responsibility. It’s a Govt. thing.
ps: to MacBill if you feel the need to associate “creationism” with Kansas citizens, then you are giving them much credit in understanding just how complex this world really is and how impossible it is for you to be able to voice your opinion by randomness.
Richard Dawkins is god…
There are several realities that need to be considered. School boards often are bound to go with lowest cost bids. Cost of ownership often comes from another budget and often can’t be considered.
There is also parental pressure and pressure from local businesses. Our school board switched from Macs when over 90% of parents wanted their students on Windows (presumably the same machines they have at home). Local businesses also stood up for Windows.
It can be very tough.
let them make their experience!
they did purchase macs before!… otherwise we wouldn’t be discussing this…
in 4 years they will go back to mac and osX! it will be a lesson dearly paid for but in the end it will be an experience to have to deal with windows vista!!!!
i don’t envy the staff but it is what it is and most of the staff had no say in this….
I bet the members of the board got a brown Zune to vote for M$…
From a point of view when it comes to save money, It is wise to make cutbacks. Although, I am an avid mac user and i like mac, I would, if in charge of a budget would buy Win PC’s over Apple. Mac’s are too expensive, even for the average user. Apple needs to lower prices or give discounts to educational institutions. But to buy dell, not a smart move. Dell is the worst PC maker of all of them.
I wonder if the Dells will come equipped with software that proves the validity if the “theory” of Creation “Science” . I understand that has cachet in Kansas. That could explain the choice of these cornfield clods.
Perhaps someday they may come to understand that you get what you pay for.
it is proven that mac are cheaper in ownership cost… if you dare to look past the initial cost of purchase and take into account the software and the resale value after 3-4 years you will discover that any mac will beat a windows based pc by around approx. 20-40%…
i sold my powerbook 17″ 1ghz a year ago and got $1300 for it! show me a pc notebook that has a value like that after 3 years???
and why is everybody picking on kansas??? i don’t live there or know anyone from kansas, but i have nothing against them and to pick on people of a state for the religious views of a part of the state is very stupid… this is why people like CHO (virginia tech) go mad and feel they have to do stupid things… i completly disagree with those religious beliefs, but to dis people like that is exactly the wrong thing to do and makes things worse… civilized discussion or let ’em be is the way to go, not mocking or bullying!
The Devil came from Kansas, where he went to I can’t say
Though I teach I’m not a preacher, and I aim to stay that way
There’s a monkey riding on my back, been there for some time
He says he knows me very well, but he’s no friend of mine
I’m not a humble pilgrim – there’s no need to scrape and squeeze
And don’t beg for silver paper when I’m trying to sell you cheese
– Procol Harum
“…district’s technology committee decided to keep the annual amount coming out of capital outlay to $920,000 or less.”
I would be willing to bet that Dell management learned about that $920K figure prior to making their bid. My guess would be that someone on the board who loves PC’s and/or hates Macs gave Dell the advantage by tipping them off regarding the $920K limit.
LOL! Good luck to that school! I hope they figure in all the man hours spent updateing/fixing those Dell boxes! And all th down time!
Got to love micro managing morons!
This is what happens when you make it illegal to evolve.
@ 7over
God, honey… take a class or something.
I also teach science, and on the matter of I.D., I have no comment.
I’ll bet. Not until you’re teaching in another state, anyway.
I like Kansas.
I like cigars, but I take them out of my mouth once in a while. Oops. Wrong punchline.
MDN says “How will they replace iLife? “
You know, not everybody gives a shit about iLife.
I am a Mac person and always have been and I am sure I always will be but I could not care less about iLife. Quit acting like it is such a wonderful thing becuase to some people it is nothing at all.
Who cares? Its still legal to be stupid, look at some of the comments and drivel posted here.
haha – stupid suckers – they’ll be back!
That’s a run-on sentence. Fine thing, with all these Kansas high-school students just learning how to read, landing on this site and coming across your ungrammatical sentence telling them their postings are drivel.
Have you never heard of noblesse oblige?
Keep in mind that school boards are elected, and voters who are upset about school taxes fixate on large line items in the budget such as capital outlays such as this computer purchase.
The support costs are buried in the rest of the school district salaries.
All I can say is I’m glad my kids are not attending school in Hayes, Kansas. If these board members had the best interests of their students at heart, they would have coughed up the extra $200,000. MDN is right – what about antivirus software? iLife? Dual boot capabilities? Parallels? Have these board members thought all of this through?
No, they haven’t. Morons. I pity the children attending those schools.
If a hand-cranked Gestetner with purple ink was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.
Where to start…
First off, i go the the high-school that will be on the receiving end of the majority of these dells, and I’m really not happy about it. I have been a mac user for several years, currently the proud owner of a 15″ G4 Powerbook (with Tiger of course). So, after im done with this, don’t accuse me of saying what I’m saying because I’m a ‘windows fanboy’ or anything of the like.
I agree with most of you that by the end of the 4 years, more than $200,000 (it is $200,000, not $20,000 as some of you have mistakenly said) will have been spent in support costs. But come on, they don’t really have much of a choice. All of the people in charge of making the decision dont really know a thing about computers (believe me, our school board has taken a lot of heat, I don’t know why they are still there), plus pressure from a community of also not so tech savy users isn’t exactly helping.
On the issue of software, iLife is rarely used. I have used Garageband once for a class, but that class has been in session since before we had macs, so making a song in Garageband obviously isn’t an important part. Other then that, our assignments are usually structured where making PowerPoint is considerably easier then putting together an iMovie, sorry, get over it. iTunes is a free download for Windows too so all thats left is iPhoto, iWeb, and iDVD, none of which I have ever used (for school or on my personal laptop for that matter). That being said, there is a /lot/ of software that will now need to be re-liscensed for Windows. MS Office, Adobe Photoshop/Ilistrator, Adobe Flash, Adobe Dreamweaver (all the Adobe apps are only bought for the classes need them, like website design), to name a few (and those are the biggest, everything else is cheap stuff).
Now that I have had my say on the issue, let me give some personal thoughts on your Kansas bashing.
SHUT THE —- UP
We are not still riding in covered wagons and not everyone farms as there primary source of income (in fact I think I only know of two or three people/families that do). My family does happen to farm, my dad also owns an electronics retail store. I own 4 gaming consoles and a gameboy. I despise country (and rap). The amount of kids in my school that wear cowboy hats regularly is less then the average amount of balls (no, not basketballs, I mean balls) the previous two pages of posters have (which I would guess is somewhere around .2) I know extensive amounts of HTML, CSS, and Javascript. I have coded small text games in C++ and I am working on a remake of asteroids in Flash.
If any of you wish to argue/discuss anything I have said with me, my email is smartalco@gmail.com. (To anyone who was kind enough not to make retarded remarks about the school boards decision or Kansas, thanks, you get the bonus points of the day)
Something is fishy. If you compare the annualized Dell figure: $919,909 and compare that with the Committee’s decision to stick with the existing budget of $920,000 per year. The Dell offer was just about exactly on the budget goal i.e. $919,909/$920,000 works out to be > 99.99% of the “max” target. The same method applied to the Apple Bid works out to be 102.75% of the budget. The fact that the Dell offer works out to just $81 under the cap of $920,000 or less than 1/100th of a percent, strongly suggests that whomever prepared the Dell offer knew what the cap on spending was and foks that prepared the Apple offer did not. Without a “helpful hing” they probably used inflation or trend analysis to come up with a target (2.75% growth over last budget). So, when was the decision made on the cap and when were the bidders informed of it?
Those were just proposals. I would have went back to Apple with Dell’s price and seen if Apple could match or beat the price.
Hey, its Kansas for goodness sake, and a school board, too. Whaddayaexpect?
$200,000 to spend on anti-virus and adaware clean-ups … Not nearly half enough over 4 years.
Using various Macs and PCs myself, I cannot see why the Mac should – in general – produce lower support costs. Despite iLife (which they maybe don´t use anyway), there are free AntiVirus packages, free Firewall solutions etc. so these things may not raise their budget.
Macs are not necessarily easier to use than PCs and (believe it or not) my PCs don´t require more care than my Macs. Maybe some folks here should think of all the “repair permissions, security updates, problems with latests OS versions” stuff before they actually comment on the whole thing.
To be honest, I love my Macs but while NONE my PCs broke so far, I had to get all Macs to repair in the meantime for mainboard failures, defective displays, problematic power supplies etc.
In fact, the myth that Macs are easier to support than PCs is still around – but hey: Ask some experienced Mac guy versus an experienced Windows guy and you will see that things aren´t really different (which reminds me that the Mac technician of our local store was just away, because the Macs in a printing company did not boot anymore – he was out for 1 day trying to figure how they could continue working…)
After all it´s all just computers and they may fail each and work each as well.
As a mac user and supporter living in in Kansas, I don’t appreciate the negative Kansas comments. Every place has its strengths and weaknesses, just like people. I have been to the coasts and all kinds of places. My wife is from NY and she prefers here.
As for Apple, I have been able to convince at least one school to put Intel Macs on the teachers’ desk, and they love them. The same school has a computer lab full of donated PCs and it took 6 months to get them secured for use. The students in the library generally use the Mac.
Opinions take time to change, but change they do. Even here in Kansas.
Remind me never to send my kids there. Actually, remind me never to have kids, the world will be screwed in 20 years.
@ LorD 1776
Thanks for the link! Gotta get me one of those FSM T-shirts.
Yours in Pasta,
-informed
@BustingtheSkullofIdiots
Stick to your guns!!!
God will bless you for your efforts even though much of it is falling on deaf ears.
@Hm… and others.
This site is an OPEN FORUM and the last I heard, we in the United States still enjoy the right to free speech. Although that is certainly under attack these days as well.
I’m a Kansan in high school. Kansas has elected a more progressive school board, so the I.D. debate has died down. And to anyone who supports teaching it, we learn about God in church, and about science in school.
@ Kit-N
Quote: “Although that is certainly under attack these days as well.”
Are you implying that religion is under attack? Surely you can’t be that dense. It is quite the other way around, my friend.
It takes quite an imagination to believe that religion is some kind of “victim.” That’s one hell of a persecution complex you’ve got there. The pig-ignorant squealings of a philistine like Bill O’Reilly may give you that impression (with his idiotic “War on X-mas”) but Bill-O wouldn’t know reality if it shit down his throat.
Or perhaps you are confused because you’ve heard some strange-haired, professional-liar with a televangelist network become defensive when religion’s utter irrelevance finally dawns on him. But that’s him just trying to stir-up more donations so he can buy another Cadillac and/or install more lime-green shag carpet in his 40-room mansion. Or when he needs an excuse for buying meth from a homosexual prostitute.
But that isn’t science “attacking” religion. Sheep do what sheep do. Religion is its own satire. Science proceeds without regard, and that clearly makes you scared.
BustingTheSkullsOfIdiots
Also, “creationism” is a term invented by atheists to denigrate the Christian theology that in short teaches “God made”. There are no known “creationists” except in the minds of Darwin-thumping Richard Dawkins types.
Bullshit, Busting. Every single publication, website and newsletter advocating an anti-evolution stance refers to themselves as “Creationists” and their platform as “Creation Science” and/or “Creationism”.
But nice try.
And that’s all I have to say on the matter. Take it to Holy Smoke.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism.holysmoke/topics?lnk=gschg
As a Hays High alum, I never learned anything about creationism. I also have never been on a farm nor do I have friends who live on farms. I am personally a mac fan as are most people i know. I think that many of you fail to see that though macs are great, the $200,000 will be greatly appreciated in other areas. For example, rather than using that money for the high school’s laptops alone, all other schools in the district will benefit from financial save. Also, it’s not like these computers are being well taken care of anyway…they’re going into different hands of kids who didn’t pay for them each year. I also don’t think this switch in equipment will lessen the students’ education in any way.
“Teaching creationism is right on.
Their decision may be short-sighted, but their beliefs are right on in my book.
Signed,
A God fearing Mac User”
Right on?
As in the earth is 20,000 years old? The flood is responsible for the death of the dinosaurs and that they lived alongside man?
Do us all a favor….Don’t tell people you are a Mac user. :o/
Any links to the Request For Proposal (RFP)?
I am a kindergarten teacher in the great state of Kansas. I also happen to work for the school district that this article is talking about. I am so outrageously offended by some of the comments that were made after this article was published. I am especially hurt by the comment of “Kansas Two-Step” and by “Roger”. My students are about to head to first grade and they are reading, as are the other kindergarten children in the district. So please do not categorize until you are sure of all the facts. As for Roger’s comments…you should “care”, because someone from Kansas could play a major role in your life one day (doctor, lawyer, etc.) I think that we all need to stop and think about the comments that we make in our lives and how that might affect another person’s life…even that of an “ignorant,country-bumpkin, hick, hayseed teacher” that just tries to do the best for her children and teach her students to be respectful of other people and of their views and opinions.
@ wecanread:
The world cares that a Kansan may “play a major role in (our) life one day.” That is why we would like future doctors from Kansas to have quality educations which fully inform their thinking and reasoning.
Please direct your anger at the halfwit politicians in your state. This thread is not the first time your great state has been the target of hurtful sarcasm. And it won’t be the last, until the problem gets fixed on your end.
The world is under no obligation to be “respectful of views and opinions” that are clearly wrong–are we to be “respectful” of someone who believes (for religious reasons) that women shouldn’t be allowed to teach? Backward-thinking is harmful to society at large, we are justified to call it out.
I am very glad that you care about your students and their reputations. But scolding the sarcasm in this thread won’t accomplish your goals. Some derision toward the leaders in your state is richly deserved. Maybe it will motivate you and your students to do something about the situation.
Clueless. I wonder what they will think when they see the stampede to buy the old macs. And what they will think when they try to dump the dells four years hence.
The board won’t be in office by that time, having been sucked into the clouds, so no one will care.
One of the factors that contributed to the school district looking elsewhere had to do with the fact that the Apple laptops at the High School were breaking down and the replacement parts were very difficult to obtain. My daughter is a freshman there. Her laptop would shut down in the middle of her work and she’d lose everything. Remember that their entire curriculum is to be accessed through the laptops and the network. She’s in Honors English and Honor Physics- they rely heavily on technology for those class. She took it to be repaired. The part was ordered, then back ordered. After 6 weeks of her being without her laptop I inquired and was told by the head of the tech. dept. “this happens to us all the time. The parts are continually back ordered and we can’t get them in a timely manner. The service is so poor. This is something we should remember when the contract comes due this year.” So there you have it from someone who knows how many break down and how difficult it is to get things fixed and replaced. It wasn’t a surprise to me they went with Dell. Any extra costs will be well worth it if the product and the services are better. Hays is not a poor community- the $200K was probably not the main issue.
Well, the laptops breaking down had to do with the fact that they’re all so old and students are given hand-me-downs. Many of them were abused by students who drop them on the ground, download gig after gig of video, or leave them in their cars when it’s 20 degrees outside. Then, after they’ve beaten the bejesus out of their computers, they have the gall to complain to our tech. guys that they want their computers fixed “RIGHT NOW!!!!”.
So, with that point, although I personally think that it’s a bit unfair to the teachers who just got used to Mac, it honestly doesn’t matter what kind of computers we get. We could go ahead and order 1200 Barbie My-First-Laptops and it wouldn’t make a difference to me. No matter what computers we have, the students ultimately decide how they want to treat their laptops
Thankfully, I’m done with this school in 3 weeks. I don’t have to deal with it, or the people who go there. Perhaps you have to go to school here to fully understand how stupid some students are when it comes to laptop care and general respect towards people. The students decide how much their computers are going to break down, so parents, pay attention to it.
seriously, they made such an awful decision.
my friend bought a brand new Dell the other day and the amount of crapware they installed on it is unbelievable! You get bombarded with a zillion and one pop-ups and requests just by turning the PC on and trying to un-install the unnecessary software! (if you can uninstall them that is).
well.. more pay to the IT guys at Kansas I suppose… and they must have been voting to go with the Dells..
I am an experienced tech person who works in a school district of PC and Mac computers and believe me, there certainly is a difference between the two platforms. One platform is difficult to repair, image and deal with and it is not the Windows based computers. We have a good deal with our PC supplier where our repair department acutally gets paid to do RMA work. Our PC’s have a 3 year warranty so that means for 3 years after the purchase of a computer any part that breaks down does not cost us any money to repair. On the Apple side it is quite different. There is only a one year warrany plus it costs us around $3000 per repair tech per year to be Apple certified so the repairs can be done in house. Compare the cost of parts of Apple computers to generic PC’s parts. It is outrageous. That is just hardware.
As for sofware it is just as bad. When you load iLife onto a Mac you are looking at about a 17GB image. Try to push that out to 30 other computers over a 10/100 network. It takes about 3 days because you can realistically only do about 10 computers at a time. On the PC side, I have never had an image over 5GB with comparable software to iLife. I can image a lab in an afternoon. Very easy to do.
We have done our own internal reviews and found that the number of PCs vs Macs that come in for hardware repair are pretty much equivalent. As for software support we spend two to three times more time on the Macs.
you are all stupid im a student at Hays,Kansas and macs are total crap. It is funny how there is about 100 people that go thru our IT staff because macs are always braking Macs have good software yes but Hardware wise it is totally crap. Just trust me 4 years of student playing with them they will not last as for dells I’ve had a tell for 6 years and its been thru fire damage water damage and covered in dust and still works perfectly
The quality of the education you have received is very much in evidence, John. Congratulations in advance for your future success as head fry chef at Mickey D’s!
Just trust me. . . .
Uh, thanks, but no thanks. Have you tried typing a message on a computer keyboard using more than your thumbs when you’re not stoned?
“The term “irreducible complexity” is key, here; also, the basic concept that similarity in design reflects a designer”
I have no problem with that. But why do you never follow it with the final question: Who designed God?
Why do you fear this question?
“you are all stupid im a student at Hays,Kansas and macs are total crap. It is funny how there is about 100 people that go thru our IT staff because macs are always braking Macs have good software yes but Hardware wise it is totally crap. Just trust me 4 years of student playing with them they will not last as for dells I’ve had a tell for 6 years and its been thru fire damage water damage and covered in dust and still works perfectly’
Well, I guess we can see one of the places where the Kansas educational system is failing.
@ techguy
“When you load iLife onto a Mac you are looking at about a 17GB image. “
Uh huh. I image Macs all day long and that’s utter crap.
I happen to like Kansas thank you. And for the nimwits out there that think we’re stupid redneck farmers, we’re not. Our major crop isn’t corn it’s wheat, how the hell do you think you get all your damn bread. I understand you being upset over the choice but don’t attack the state’s people. I take this personal and so does the rest of my school! Kansas > you.
To the Haysparent. I happen to know that the head tech wanted Dells and would do anything to get them. Any machine will have back ordered parts at any time. If you daughter would have treated her computer like a computer, she wouldn’t have had the trouble she had. We have had Macs for years and years and never had anything wrong with them. Let’s see what her Dell will do and how long she will have to wait to have it fixed. Can’t wait.
1. Kansas consistently ranks in the top 10 in the US for ACT scores and other measures of student achievement.
2. Kansas is an affordable place to live and a healthy place to raise kids – little pollution, low crime, relatively low poverty rate.
3. Hays ain’t corny. Around Hays, it’s wheat, cattle, and oil, baby!
4. The decision was strictly driven by up-front costs. When the Macs were adopted a few years ago, lots of folks b*tched and moaned that competitive bidding didn’t happen and PC options weren’t explored. Taxpayers don’t like paying bukhu bucks for laptops, especially when departmental budgets were suddenly frozen a few weeks back.
5. Not sayin’ I like the decision, but to knock Kansas kids for decisions made by their elders points to your own intellectual deficit.
6. You can help Kansas (and in the long run, your own state) by helping pro-science candidates get elected to the state board of education in 2008. The teaching of evolution has been challenged in ~37 states in the last few years, and if your state wasn’t one of them, it will be. Soon. (Visit http://www.ncseweb.org or http://www.kcfs.org or http://www.pandasthumb.org. Of course, it’s easier for you to just sit around on your a$$ and complain . . . )
Hays’ students ROCK!
– proud to be a 7th generation Kansan
Having lived in Hays for seven years this does not surprise me at all. The entire town is run by idiots who can’t see past their noses, just stay there a few days and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
Glad to have been living in KC the last seven years.
MDN Magic Word: “Red” as in the citizens of Hays will be seeing red once they find out the total cost of using Dell laptops…
Wow you people are foolish I typed that quickly and did not read it over. Maybe it is this horrible keyboard im using (MAC). Everyone of you seem to judge Kansas as if we are all rednecks. Way to critize someone that typed those sentences in about 10 seconds. Maybe if this country wasn’t so full of critizism we would actually have a better economy, like Japan. The United States will soon lose its Super Power. Oh! and don’t worry Apple will soon be sending your checks idiotic fanboys. As for Dell, dont you think Dell would be have low numbers of stock but they dont do they, it’s because Dell’s hardware surpasses that of the Macs. Also, why would Apple offer a $18,000 iMac Pro and pretty much all you can do with it is film and editing. Have fun with your overpriced, incompatible, computers.
hmm, even taking time to compose yourself you still can’t spell. And what is the deal with this sentence “As for Dell, dont you think Dell would be have low numbers of stock but they dont do they,” Dude! WTF?
You know that many people have been trashing on Kansas like we are white trash rednecks, but this is not the case. The macs in cases of iLife are cheaper yes, but your also not taking into account that the majority of iLife really are not used iWeb really there is no use for it to blog and podcasting. Comic book creator is the same way we have no use for it anyways. Garage band I have used it for one class and thats my computer applications class, and thats been only twice that we have used it. iMovie I do agree is great and so is iDVD, but there are programs that equal out too the programs like Vegas Movie Studio which has a price but is well worth it. It’s used for professional video creating and editing. Refer to this website which the prices have dropped substantially; http://homepage.mac.com/corourke/advocacy/pricewatch.html Lets compare these prices now:
Vegas Movie Studio: $89.95
Sound Forge Studio: $69.95
Picasa: $0
Dreamweaver 8: $188.95(Lets just forget that this is also used on all of the macs for our web team)
Comic Book Creator: $29.99
Total: $89.95+$69.95+$0+$29.99+$188.95= $378.84
(This just means that the page that MDN also had been referring to an outdated web page that could not clearly cover the true cost Mac Vs. PC)
These iLife 06 programs though are also not used and since iweb which is used for blogging is a distraction for students in class are not needed because these computers are used for learning and are not supposed to be used for blogging on websites and chatting away with friends.
I am also right now taking into account that I have nothing against macs they are fine I also have nothing against Windows PC’s which the virus comment is not needed because there are simple anti-virus programs that can be downloaded that are of no cost to the students or the school district USD 489, and if you keep referring to the viruses of the windows its just simply because more people use windows it gets viruses more because hackers know that many people do not know really how to protect there computers, and to that point why would you send a virus to 7.5% of the computer world when you can send it to 85% of the computer world. (I’m also taking into affect that people are using Linux as well.) Wouldn’t it be easier to hack 85% of computers compared to 7.5% of computers?
Though there is one more thing. Lets also think about how many more programs there are for windows over the Mac and the Linux.
The policy that dell has provided our school with is that we will be getting a refurbished computer two days after it has been broken. Right now our policy with the macs our IT staff takes weeks to get our computers fixed depending on the problem. No, I’m not trying to take this out on them I’m just saying that it takes awhile for them to fix the computers, but I’m just saying this is a major disadvantage for the students without a computer because you get behind on work and it is very hard for us(students) to catch up as some classes rely on these computers to work and have our work done. Some classes also require that essays be typed on the computer and emailed to the teacher or sent through Moodle (a website that our school uses for class schedules and homework etc.)
I also though must say I had spent about an hour or two researching and typing this defending Kansas and my hometown.
Case Closed.
“seriously, they made such an awful decision.
my friend bought a brand new Dell the other day and the amount of crapware they installed on it is unbelievable! You get bombarded with a zillion and one pop-ups and requests just by turning the PC on and trying to un-install the unnecessary software! (if you can uninstall them that is).
well.. more pay to the IT guys at Kansas I suppose… and they must have been voting to go with the Dells..”
Now too that the techs have to reformat the mac laptops each year to remove the things that people have put on there and that is not needed for the laptop that year with that student.
Dell Laptops have a lot of crap I do agree, but after they are reformatted theres really nothing that you can complain about. because the students don’t have to deal with it. just those three IT tech dudes.
I would also like to say about my previous comment that all of those programs have a certain number of licences which would also bring down the total cost of that.
I cant say if this is the right decision or not, but what i can say is that no matter what computer students get, there will be problems. I’ve had the macs currently at hays high, and their good computers, but the fact is that after 3 years of student use, they are pure crap. There is not a single student who hasn’t ran into trouble. Truthfully, the majority of them arent worth 50 dollars at this point. Some of these computers conditions are ridiculous. It is to the point that touching the computer at the wrong location causes it to hibernate (my brothers computer does this). Therefore, i dont find the quality argument to be that sound. Not to mention that most all businesses run on windows, so you might as well learn how to use it now. seriously, problems are going to be had regardless, and there is no way that apple can garuntee their “superiority” in quality over dell will save hays high 200,000 dollars.
Ok, now, I went to the school they are talking about in this article.
#1 We do not teach creationism. By our standards, it’s a “sin”.
#2 We grow wheat, not corn, you idiots.
#3 Its Hays, not Hayes.
#4 Not everybody here is a damn farmer/redneck. Everyone that I’ve ever met in this state can speak properly, and have a nice amount of intelligence.
#5 Right now, I’m using my little sister’s Mac laptop. It has a CD stuck in the drive, and the battery on this thing doesn’t last longer than an hour. These Macs are some of the worst laptops I’ve ever used. I’m happy that the district switched to Dell. Every Dell that I’ve ever used hasn’t crapped-out on me like these pieces of junk do.
And last I checked, I was still in Kansas.