“Apple and several major music companies are facing a European Commission antitrust probe after Brussels issued formal charges alleging that the deals that underpin the sale of music through the hugely popular iTunes platform violate competition rules,” Tobias Buck and Karl de Meyer report for The FInancial Times.
“In a surprise development, the Brussels regulator last week sent a confidential statement of objections outlining the accusations to Apple and to “major record companies”. These are understood to include Universal, Warner, EMI and Sony BMG,” Buck and de Meyer report.
Buck and de Meyer report, “The Commission’s main concern is that iTunes’ current set-up in the European market prohibits users in one country from downloading music from a website intended to serve another country.”
“‘Apple has always wanted to operate a single, pan-European iTunes store, accessible by anyone from any member state,’ an Apple spokesman said on Monday. ‘But we were advised by the music labels and publishers that there were certain legal limits to the rights they could grant us. We do not believe the company did anything to violate EU law, and we will continue to work with the EU to resolve this matter,’ he said,” Buck and de Meyer report.
Full article here.
You give them the stars, they ask for the moon.
This sounds like a music labels’ licensing morass (old country-by-country contracts that aren’t EU-applicable), not an issue caused by Apple.
Related articles:
Apple’s DRM-free iTunes play trumps Microsoft’s huge bet on DRM – April 02, 2007
Norwegian Consumer Council senior advisor applauds Apple’s iTunes Store DRM-free music – April 02, 2007
CNBC video: Apple CEO Steve Jobs and EMI Group CEO Eric Nicoli – April 02, 2007
EMI’s Nicoli on DRM-free iTunes: ‘We have to trust our consumers,’ Apple’s Jobs: ‘right thing to do’ – April 02, 2007
Kudos to Steve Jobs and Apple for having courage to call for end of DRM and making it happen – April 02, 2007
Analyst Gartenberg: iTunes Store’s DRM-free music ‘a great win for Apple’ – April 02, 2007
Apple CEO Steve Jobs to appear live on CNBC within the hour – April 02, 2007
Apple: Higher quality 256 kbps AAC DRM-free music on iTunes Store coming in May – April 02, 2007
EMI rejects Warner Music buyout bid – March 04, 2007
EMI halts talks about selling DRM-free music – February 26, 2007
Warner Music approaches EMI in possible takeover bid – February 20, 2007
Macrovision posts pro-DRM open letter to Steve Jobs and digital entertainment industry – February 16, 2007
Warner’s DRM-loving Middlebronfman warns wireless industry it may lose music market to Apple iPhone – February 14, 2007
Monster Cable announces full support of Apple CEO Steve Jobs’ call for DRM-free music – February 13, 2007
BBC columnist doesn’t believe Steve Jobs’ Apple would stop using DRM if music labels would allow it – February 12, 2007
EMI may sell entire music catalog DRM-free – February 09, 2007
Recording Industry Association of America wants their DRM, calls for Apple to license FairPlay – February 08, 2007
Warner’s Middlebronfman: Jobs’ DRM-free music call ‘without logic and merit, we’ll not abandon DRM’ – February 08, 2007
Technology Review editor gets a lot wrong in his article about Apple CEO Jobs’ push to end DRM – February 07, 2007
Apple’s Jobs jolts music industry; Zune exec calls Jobs’ call for DRM-free music ‘irresponsible’ – February 07, 2007
Apple CEO Steve Jobs’ posts rare open letter: ‘Thoughts on Music’ – calls for DRM-free music – February 06, 2007
I’m sure we’re get plenty of anti-Europe posts here, but I’d like to hopefully “first post” by saying that I think that the EU is right here, although I do believe it is the fault of the record companies and not Apple.
Is it me, or are the European antitrust probers extra whiney?
The music publishers aren’t the first industry which had to change plans for the common european market – they’re just trying to be the last ones, it appears…
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Is it me, or are the European antitrust probers extra whiney?
What good is there in keeping a french customer from buying a track which Apple has to restrict to only the british iTunes store?
The whole system of fractured licensing with localized special restrictions for individual european countries is severely outdated and needs to go the way of the german Mark and the french Franc.
Most of us are paying in Euro nowadays – there’s no good reason why we shouldn’t see interesting music from other corners of the continent.
Was the news today with EMI an effort for EMI, which is struggling, to get a jump on their competition? What if EMI and Apple are DRM free? Then the onus is on the other record labels to show that they aren’t the anti-competitive ones.
EMI removing DRM: Crazy like a fox.
Europe sucks.
Ahhh, socialism. Gotta’ love it. Unless, of course, you don’t have a permit.
Amazing the level of effort these countries go through to prove anti-competitive behavior and imply some sort of collusion over something as benign and uneccessary as music.
How about lets see this same level of investigation aimed at oil companies.
MDN take is spot on. The RIAA would strangle their golden goose for more eggs.
Some of you aren’t getting it: The Commission is trying to remove actual restrictions which hurt both the buyers and Apple.
iTunes customers, Apple and the European Commission are clearly on the same side here, the rigid and legacy-ridden music industry on the other.
Sure, it will take the labels some effort to sort out their messy licensing contracts which enforce the existing restrictions, but forcing them to get their stuff together at last is long overdue anyway. Apple doesn’t have enough power to push this simplification through, but the EU does. Fortunately.
A great line, thelt: “strangle their golden goose for more eggs.” There are a lot of us who need to think about that.
ping has it exactly right. Read between the lines of the Apple statement.
The EU needs to start worrying about their own, namely the labels that are based out of Europe that aren’t playing along. Apple has shown that they’re genuinely trying to open things up, so for the EU to go after them at all shows just how pathetically out of touch the EU truly is.
Ping / Jamie
I agree with you in principle but Brussels is targeting Apple as well even though they may agree with Apple. With “friends” like these…
In the affected countries, Apple should either: 1) pull out entirely or 2)sell music only from the vendors that allow DRM free music to be sold. If 2) is not good enough, then implement 1).
Whole-heartedly agree with MDN’s take.
Peace.
This is nutty. The EU has no business getting involved in these types of decisions by private companies selling/leasing their property. There are always unintended negative consequences from these types of mandates. What if a music company (or any other company) wanted to try a new product in a single country because it was too risky it its previous business model to implement it across the EU? This mandate would make such a company less likely to innovate and try new products. The common market shouldn’t be about mandates on private transactions between willing sellers and buyers. It should just be about preventing individual national governments from restricting trade.
This is just the EU saying that EU is one market. There is one iTunes store for the US, there is not one for each state. The EU is just saying that the European iTS should work the same as the US one.
I don’t think anybody but the labels have an issue with that. Apple wants a pan-European store (easiest and cheapest for Apple), the consumers want the same (better selection, better prices), the artists probably want this too (better visibillity, larger potential market), but the labels didn’t allow this. There is a reason why it took so long to get iTS in Europe, and it had nothing to do with Apple.
For all those in the good ol’ US of A that are bashing the EU, try to imagine having a similar situation that exists in Europe.
It would mean that if you could only buy tracks from a store that specifically for the State you live in. So if you lived in NY you couldn’t buy music on the California store and imagine all the different stores potentially having different prices.
That’s the reality of the situation in the EU. Not at all consumer friendly and I applaud the European Commission for probing this.
I also squarely blame the music mafia that such a situation exists.
TTzz,
Yeah, that analogy would work wonderfully if only the USA wasn’t 230 years old and was instead an artificial socialist confederation recently cobbled together because a bunch of old entities that all tried and failed to rule the world at one time or another found they couldn’t even compete with each other much less the rest of the world.
>For all those in the good ol’ US of A that are bashing the EU, try to imagine having a similar situation that exists in Europe.
It would mean that if you could only buy tracks from a store that specifically for the State you live in.>
The EU is made up of separate countries, speaking different languages. The USA is one country, speaking English. Though you ‘One Worlders’ will be happy to know that we have between 20 & 30 million illegal aliens here who speak Spanish for the most part. So the bottom line is that we are on our way to becoming a third world mess, similar to the socialist EU>
Where’s my iPod? What’s all this mariachi stuff?
Judge Bork,
Ouch. Geez, you’re going to kill the Eurotrash with the friggin’ truth. Cut it out, they don’t like to hear that sort of stuff! Let them play blissfully with their colorful monopoly money.
Where the EU is dead wrong is in their accusing Apple as being part of the music cabal that enforces separate policies on the EU member states. These policies are inflicted by the music companies, not by Apple.
Whether or not the EU should or should not demand borderless treatment for all nations in the EU is another question.
Apple should not be made a scapegoat for the music industry’s choice of policies.
Europe sucks. I mean honestly how stupid can they be?
Having studied some EU antitrust law in my time, this isn’t a problem for Apple. The commission is absolutely right to say there’s something wrong though. One of the central pillars of the EU is the common market, and anything that fragments the market along national lines is viewed with distrust. I think MDN is right that this is the music companies’ problem, they’ve been doing it for years and it sucks. Also, I think this news announcement is just badly timed – the EU really, really doesn’t work this fast folks!
Move along, nothing to see here…
We should be able to buy tunes from any countries store. At the very least, we should be able to send a gift certificate to someone in another country that they can actually use.
This is just the EU saying that EU is one market.
–
But.. not one country. Obviously. But you’re right, they choose to act like one market for goods, services, resources.
Ultimately, i think they should keep things the way they are, French people want a customized French store, just like the US has, etc
About time they bashed their heads together and sorted this out. Hopefully this will force the media giants into coming up with a working licensing scheme for all their product, including film and TV rights.
And regarding all of you throwing insults rather than thinking this through, do you honestly think today’s anti-DRM announcement would have happened if it weren’t for the EU making such a noise about it? The European Commission points out where business needs to get its act together. If you left the record labels to it, you’d never get any change.
To Mike
Yeah, French people want a French store, but increasing a lot of French people don’t have addresses in France, since they live in England, Spain, Germany etc. The same with any other nationality in the Union, we’re all moving around and living in each other’s countries. I think that’s kind of the point the EC is trying to make.
Whether some Americans like it or not, the EU is supposed to be a single market area with no barriers in trading of goods and services and free movement of work force (how’s that for ‘socialism’?). Which means this is just the EU working how it’s supposed to work: tearing down trade walls erected by local governments, country-specific laws, and big corporations orchestrating them. Apple can do nothing but benefit from this – they said themselves they’d like to have a pan-European iTS.
So what the heck is your problem? Could it just be vehement, irrational Euro hate that’s so alive and well among the navel-gazing, Faux News ogling, Rush-listening, warmongering, Bible-thumping, blood-thirsty, violence-good-nudity-bad, no-better-than-the-terrorists-they-hate, there-are-commies-under-my-bed, redneck part of the American population?
Some people just can’t think about anything else than ‘socialism’ when they hear the word ‘Europe’, even when facts fly right into their faces. But facts never seem to stop them anyway, whether it’s about science (evolution) or war (Iraq and those horrible, terrible WMD’s which were just as real as Microshaft vaporware).
Tryd & TTzz: right on.
Lurker_PC: “In the affected countries, Apple should either: 1) pull out entirely or 2)sell music only from the vendors that allow DRM free music to be sold. If 2) is not good enough, then implement 1).”
This is not the issue of DRM. Even if Apple gets a license to sell music DRM-free, they are still restricted to per country basis. Artists do not sign to a single Europe-wide label. An artist may signed by EMI in the UK and by Sony BMG in German. Apple must get a permission to distribute the same song on the same server from both depending on the downloaders’ location. That’s the nightmare. It’s easier to break down the store to single country stores and each store is responsible for their own license as opposed to a centralized store that can’t sell a song in 26 countries because they can’t get a license to sell it in Malta.
Funnily enough, as much as we hate big labels, the issue is not with them too. The issue is with the EU itself. Fix the laws concerning transmission of intellectual properties in a unified way and they can make companies to treat EU citizens equally.
The problem here isn’t with what the EU is trying to do, but rather that they’ve made Apple on the targets.
The record labels are the ones with the product, Apple is the one trying to sell the product–Apple is forced to make a deal with the rights holders, and the conditions here are set by those rights holders, particularly since one company may have the rights to an act in Germany, a different company in England, another one in France, etc.
The record labels are the ones with the product, Apple is the one trying to sell the product
Correct in principle, but Apple is the entity enforcing the restrictions. The internal contractual basis for that enforcement would certainly come up before any fines would be talked about, but on the face of it, Apple is the representative of the labels from the european buyer’s point of view – the commercial agent in violation of european principles.
It’s absolutely certain that Apple desperately wants this simplification at least as much as the customers do which can’t access and buy many titles in the other european iTunes Stores at this point.
There is no law that needs to be changed, but a european harmonization of national IP laws might in fact prove somewhat helpful to the labels who’ll have to try finding a way out of their own historically grown and metastasized licensing mess.
Of course I’d much prefer global access (to the american and japanese ITSs as well, for instance), but at least the common european market needs to be free of access restrictions.
ping: “Correct in principle, but Apple is the entity enforcing the restrictions. The internal contractual basis for that enforcement would certainly come up before any fines would be talked about, but on the face of it, Apple is the representative of the labels from the european buyer’s point of view – the commercial agent in violation of european principles.”
True, but the contracts enjoy the protection of the legal entities or the contracts themselves are illegal and unenforceable. If Apple is in violation of European principles, that means Apple can’t use the contracts to protect itself because they are invalid, but the contracts are valid (or else they were revoked a long time ago). Hence the contradiction of the EU’s stance. The EU cannot harmonize the IP laws across the Europe and yet they require companies that are bound by their laws to do it for them.
Norway capitulates, but the EU declares war on common sense.
The EU cannot harmonize the IP laws across the Europe and yet they require companies that are bound by their laws to do it for them.
Again: It is not the laws which force the labels to create a chaotic web of inconsistent licensing across Europe.
If they wanted (or were forced to), they could very well remedy the situation.
It’s just that their primary mode of operation is complacency. So they won’t start moving unless really forced to, And that may be exactly what’s beginning to happen now.
It is very well possible that the european courts would be asked for a judgment, possibly followed by a need to amend certain laws and/or treaties if they should pose an unacceptable impediment for either the labels or the consumers.
Proud bedpan.
“Whether some Americans like it or not, the EU is supposed to be a single market area with no barriers in trading of goods and services and free movement of work force (how’s that for ‘socialism’?). Which means this is just the EU working how it’s supposed to work: tearing down trade walls erected by local governments, country-specific laws, and big corporations orchestrating them. Apple can do nothing but benefit from this – they said themselves they’d like to have a pan-European iTS.
So what the heck is your problem? Could it just be vehement, irrational Euro hate that’s so alive and well among the navel-gazing, Faux News ogling, Rush-listening, warmongering, Bible-thumping, blood-thirsty, violence-good-nudity-bad, no-better-than-the-terrorists-they-hate, there-are-commies-under-my-bed, redneck part of the American population?
Some people just can’t think about anything else than ‘socialism’ when they hear the word ‘Europe’, even when facts fly right into their faces. But facts never seem to stop them anyway, whether it’s about science (evolution) or war (Iraq and those horrible, terrible WMD’s which were just as real as Microshaft vaporware).”
Just don’t call us the next time you have your European war.
Norway capitulates, but the EU declares war on common sense.
You’re kind of slow, aren’t you?
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It is common sense that any european customer can simply access the same library in the iTunes Store regardless of location.
The Commission does nothing but demanding that to actually happen.
Right now the selection is completely fragmented, at the frustration of the european customers and significant overhead for Apple.
What the hell is “common sense” about the current bloody mess?
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Just don’t call us the next time you have your European war.
Don’t worry, we won’t.
Fortunately the navel-gazing, Faux News ogling, Rush-listening, warmongering, Bible-thumping, blood-thirsty, violence-good-nudity-bad, no-better-than-the-terrorists-they-hate, there-are-commies-under-my-bed, redneck part of the American population is a minority – by far most americans are actually sensible people who are welcome any time around here, war or no war!
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ping: “Again: It is not the laws which force the labels to create a chaotic web of inconsistent licensing across Europe.
If they wanted (or were forced to), they could very well remedy the situation.”
No, the law does not force the licensing morass, but the law does allow it to happen. As long as it’s legal, the labels could do whatever they want and the EU can not and should not complain. That’s the basis of capitalism and competition. It’s when they “unifies” their power that consumers should be weary because rarely does such a thing benefit consumers. When they do, the law should be there to protect people’s interests.
ping: “It’s just that their primary mode of operation is complacency. So they won’t start moving unless really forced to, And that may be exactly what’s beginning to happen now.
It is very well possible that the european courts would be asked for a judgment, possibly followed by a need to amend certain laws and/or treaties if they should pose an unacceptable impediment for either the labels or the consumers.”
Forcing them to move is not what’s objectionable. What is, is that they are forcing them to move contrary to the laws which give them a protection to be complacent. If they want/have to amend certain laws and treaties, then good. By all means, amend them. But until they do, they shouldn’t probe companies for unfounded “wrongdoings”.
No, the law does not force the licensing morass, but the law does allow it to happen. As long as it’s legal, the labels could do whatever they want and the EU can not and should not complain.
Free access of consumers to the common european market is an overriding principle which can and should trump the freedom of contractual negotiation.
You cannot negotiate a contract which ends up in violation of other laws, not even under protection of said freedom of negotiation.
The creation of the common market already has in many cases and will continue to require changes in many existing commercial frameworks.
It’s when they “unifies” their power that consumers should be weary because rarely does such a thing benefit consumers.
Just keep your tin foil hat firmly affixed to your head, then – you’ll surely need it…!
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In actual fact the European Community has sometimes annoyed but still predominantly benefited the rights and freedoms of its citizens. But by no means let reality interfere with your paranoia…
WEll, most of it has been covered, but I will still add my 2 kopecs.
Europe, If you are mad at the hay, DON’T KILL the COW!!!
Apple has to work with the record companies. It does not make or license the music, only act as a pass thru that MUST follow the rules of the music companies or STOP selling music.
Please act like intelligent adults. At least please try. 🙁
ne
Don’t a lot of music contracts and ownership rights pre-date the formation of the EU. This is definitely one more item that the EU members must resolve. Why they included Apple is anyone’s guess. My own guess is that these commissioners want to use Steve Jobs as the hammer to crush the record companies’ insistance on ‘music with borders’. By including Apple in their complaint they are trying to use Apple’s leverage because they have little power of their own to change the system. Anyone with a lick of business sense would realize that it is NOT in Apple’s interest to maintain a dozen different store fronts, each with its own inventory.
ping: “Free access of consumers to the common european market is an overriding principle which can and should trump the freedom of contractual negotiation.
You cannot negotiate a contract which ends up in violation of other laws, not even under protection of said freedom of negotiation.”
OK, if Apple gets a license to sell songs by Artist A from Label B in France, can they sell it in Portugal even though they don’t have the license from Portuguese copyright holder, Label C? If Apple allows Portuguese to download the songs anyway and Label C sues Apple, who wins? Can Apple sue Label C for not licensing them the songs?
ping: “Just keep your tin foil hat firmly affixed to your head, then – you’ll surely need it…! wink
In actual fact the European Community has sometimes annoyed but still predominantly benefited the rights and freedoms of its citizens. But by no means let reality interfere with your paranoia…”
It’s not a paranoia that when companies get together and they get the power, consumers usually get screwed. That’s why there are antitrust lawsuits and probes (which is what the article is about). Cartels and trusts are usually monitored closely because companies do what companies normally do: try to maximize profits even at the expense of consumers. Does that mean the EC wears a tinfoil hat (and you, who support the EC, too)?
Don’t a lot of music contracts and ownership rights pre-date the formation of the EU.
Not really… I doubt that many are over 50 years old…
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But the common market in its current form is of course relatively recent indeed.
That’s why many industries had or still have to adapt to it, and the music industry has their number coming up right now, it appears.
Why they included Apple is anyone’s guess. My own guess is that these commissioners want to use Steve Jobs as the hammer to crush the record companies’ insistance on ‘music with borders’.
Quite certainly. I wouldn’t be surprised if EMI’s decision was at least in part a reaction to initial rumblings from various political sides…
By including Apple in their complaint they are trying to use Apple’s leverage because they have little power of their own to change the system.
Actually, the Commission has rather considerable power to change the system, especially when acting in concert with the national governments and/or the European Parliament and especially when acting consistently with already established principles.
OK, if Apple gets a license to sell songs by Artist A from Label B in France, can they sell it in Portugal even though they don’t have the license from Portuguese copyright holder, Label C?
No. The contract which aims to restrict consumer’s access along national borders would be inconsistent with european regulations and thus null and void in the end.
But things aren’t moving quite that fast, even if it’s clearly the direction.
Agreed-upon european regulations need to be implemented into national laws to actually have that power, and many of them are lagging behind.
And existing contracts which will need modification will have certain time frames within which they need to be amended.
Nobody would actually have to lose any rights they already possess. There would just have to be additional cross-licensing agreements where necessary.
It’s not a paranoia that when companies get together and they get the power, consumers usually get screwed.
Ah, okay. I thought you were referring to the EU institutions with your remarks above. Tin foil hat hereby retracted.
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ping: “Agreed-upon european regulations need to be implemented into national laws to actually have that power, and many of them are lagging behind.”
And that’s why I said currently, the EU needs to focus and work on their own reforms. It’s pretty stupid to require companies to follow an ideal that currently has no legal backings. It may be the goal to have an EC-wide market for IP downloads, but as it happens right now, Label C can and will sue Apple for allowing Portuguese to download the songs from the France-based server without a license from them. They will win, too. If iTunes Store is centralized, Label C can be a hold out and can ask Apple for an insane amount of money which will prevent Apple from selling the songs to anyone until they agree to pay. There is no legal recourse for Apple to prevent such a thing from happening. That’s the reason why iTunes Store is fractured.
So, once again, it’s pretty stupid to go after companies right now. Fix the treaties/laws and then you can use them to force companies to change their business.
It may be the goal to have an EC-wide market for IP downloads, but as it happens right now, Label C can and will sue Apple for allowing Portuguese to download the songs from the France-based server without a license from them. They will win, too.
It’s not nearly that simple.
For one thing, the european courts could well find such a suit in violation of higher principles even if the respective national governments may have failed to properly implement agreed-upon regulations.
Secondly, the Commission can make life for the labels quite uncomfortable on grounds of collusion to the detriment of the european consumer if those should attempt such a feat.
Since nobody can claim to be surprised by the long-established principles of the common market, acting consistently against those will not lead to happy shareholders – this is not something which actually costs the labels much if anything; Quite to the contrary.
The one-time effort of cleaning up their licensing messes will result in increased sales, simplified market access and better long-term stability for the labels and a much better situation for both Apple and the customers.
The iTunes Store country selector would just switch between presentation languages and probably the national default front-page title selection, but not prevent anyone from actually finding and buying the desired titles if they’re available in Europe. And that is how it should be.
“Don’t a lot of music contracts and ownership rights pre-date the formation of the EU. This is definitely one more item that the EU members must resolve. Why they included Apple is anyone’s guess. My own guess is that these commissioners want to use Steve Jobs as the hammer to crush the record companies’ insistance on ‘music with borders’. By including Apple in their complaint they are trying to use Apple’s leverage because they have little power of their own to change the system. Anyone with a lick of business sense would realize that it is NOT in Apple’s interest to maintain a dozen different store fronts, each with its own inventory.”
Spark,
Well said. While I have no sympathy for the music companies, in many cases their hands are tied by the many and varied copyright laws of the member nations. Until the copyrights expire, or until the EU implements a uniform copyright code, this mess will drag on until Armageddon. Throwing the blame at the music companies (who do deserve some, admittedly) and – incredibly, in my opinion – Apple, strikes me as self-serving.
<angry rant>And by the way, all the ignorant “Europe sucks” trolls here need to get their heads out of their asses and start reading a bit about the rest of the planet. America isn’t great because of people like you; it’s great despite people like you.
No greater testament to the genius of the U.S Constitution exists than the fact that genetic drift like you are allowed to speak, much less breed.
I’m an American, and I love America. I don’t love the fact that the country I have proudly served is filled with ignorant know-nothings whose only purpose in life – apart from occupying useful space, consuming oxygen, and reflecting photons – seems to be to embarrass the greatest nation in history by parading their stupidity on the world stage. Either get a clue or SHUT THE FUCK UP.</angry rant>
“Europe, If you are mad at the hay, DON’T KILL the COW!!! “
I got mad at hay one time.
My friends said I was just grasping at straws.
And sow, they refused to bale me out especially once I grazed my threshold.
While I have no sympathy for the music companies, in many cases their hands are tied by the many and varied copyright laws of the member nations. Until the copyrights expire, or until the EU implements a uniform copyright code, this mess will drag on until Armageddon.
Still nothing that couldn’t be resolved between the participating parties if they’re so motivated. And this motivation can be helped along by a bit of pressure in the right places.
I’m an American, and I love America. I don’t love the fact that the country I have proudly served is filled with ignorant know-nothings whose only purpose in life – apart from occupying useful space, consuming oxygen, and reflecting photons – seems to be to embarrass the greatest nation in history by parading their stupidity on the world stage. Either get a clue or SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Just don’t think for a second that there weren’t any european neanderthals… after all, the Neandertal is located in the heart of Europe, and occasionally it shows.
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Does anyone else smell Madame Kunteva’s evil hand in this? Fsckin’ wannabe M.I.L.F.!
@Linux Guy and Mac Prodigal Son:
The representative of the EU was on BBC news this morning and admitted that Apple had got caught up in what was the record companies problem. It did not sound as if they were going after Apple, who he said were perfectly prepared to offer a pan-European store. Their real beef was with the record labels.
Like the mobile phone companies the record companies are being flushed out by the EU Commission and the internet. APPLE isn’t the driver here its the record coys. For mobile phones its also a cartel but its the distributors – ie. vodaphone that will get pressed.
Apple and the labels have got to stop their country specific price fixing – it is illegal under European competition law. If you want to play in our market you have to play by our rules.
GWB – “Just don’t call us the next time you have your European war.”
*yawn*
Aren’t you just a little bit tired of that attitude by now? This idea you have that the EU and all it’s constituent nations are somehow evil is BS of the highest order. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, yet keep talking anyway.
Once again, the EMI announcement was the direct result of EU pressure on the record companies. Steve Jobs was clever enough to write his open letter a couple of months back so that he could claim credit when they started to capitulate, but it was the European Commission that has forced the change. A change which is good for consumers.
Now they want to do the same with another outdated business practice the record companies will never abandon on their own. This is a good thing, but all you can do is berate the EU because you have prejudiced views about it. Can you imagine if California and Texas had different iTMS stores, and you couldn’t buy music from one or the other depending on where you lived? That’s the current situation in Europe, and it’s a stupid situation that’s bad for European consumers. So the EC is doing the right thing and getting them to harmonise it.
Really, let go of the anger and start to recognise good things when you see them. You’re starting to look quite sad.
Europe has been lost to socialism for a while. In what is basically a brain disorder, the elite and also the general population looses intelligence over a period of time.
The Euro-commie morons at work. What a bunch of jack-asses.
Hey Ping….
“Just don’t call us the next time you have your European war.
Don’t worry, we won’t.”
Can all us Americans take your word on that?
You guys ALWAYS seem to call us to sort things out when you guys decide, once again, to try to annihilate one another… (how many times has this happened again?)
I recall just this last decade when, yet another European tyrant decided to brutally murder masses of his fellow countrymen….
And what did the EU do? Formed a committee to study the problem… It wasn’t until the Yanks arrived that things got sorted at all….
For all your talk about Americans, Europe takes the cake for truly despicable characters…..
Your intolerance of Christianity soon won’t matter b/c at the rate things are going, your women will all soon be wearing burkhas anyway… The riots in Paris were just a snapshot of what’s to come…
Have fun flying in that state-funded, 2 years late (and counting) white elephant, the Airbust A380….
Try as I might, I can’t see how this story turns into an opportunity for the “USA is No.1” crowd who post here to start their “Europe is populated by communists” rant.
Firstly, there is nothing in this probe that doesn’t further the interests of consumers (i.e. Apple’s customers) and, by implication, Apple Inc.
The EU has – for many years, and against the protectionist instincts of many member states – pursued the ideal of creating a single market for goods and services across the entire area of the union: in other words, creating the opportunity for an EU citizen in one member state to purchase a product sold from another member state.
For the most part, this concept works reasonably well: there has been resistance from some member states (the ones you’d suspect) regarding professional services like architecture where there are concerns about the transparency of qualifications, but even those areas are being harmonised over time.
The real achievement of the EU – which recently celebrated its half-century – is in encouraging genuine democracy to flourish across the continent: Spain, Portugal, Greece were all military dictatorships, whilst Poland, Hungary, The Czech Republic and others were all members of the Soviet Bloc. Whilst the Union may not have directly caused democracy to rise in any of those countries, the threat of being excluded from the Union’s economic benefits should democracy fail means that the political extremism (both right and left) that affected Europe for the worst part of a century are kept at bay.
Back on topic, what the EU is doing here is confronting the cartel that exists between the record companies and their proxies in each country’s rights collection societies, for while the record companies would probably already be subject to the laws of the Single Economic Area, they escape by the fact that copyright enforcement and the collection of monies owed to artists across a wide range of fields is still controlled at a national level.
Quite frankly, this is ludicrous and represents a barrier to entry which runs counter to the public interest as well as the interest of artists who have to bear the costs of administering several rights collection societies (one for performance, one for mechanicals, one for session musicians, one for producers, etc. ad infinitum) across 27 countries as opposed to having a harmonised mechanism across the marketplace.
There are only two bodies who the current system benefits: the record companies, who use the system to maximise pricing across each nation-state, and the personnel employed by the rights societies.
In effect, what the EU Commission is doing here is enforcing an open market on vested interests who’d rather keep the status quo: that’s not communism, that’s the philosophy of free market economics which is supposed to be a rallying point for capitalism in the American model. If you’re too stupid to recognise this for what it is, maybe you should refrain from commenting.
You guys ALWAYS seem to call us to sort things out when you guys decide, once again, to try to annihilate one another… (how many times has this happened again?)
If you don’t like it, why was it the policy of your current President to actively discourage the formation of a European Rapid Reaction Force that would work outside of NATO? I think it was because your country feared that such a move would ultimately mean the weakening of NATO and the closure of all those US military facilities across Europe, but maybe that was just an interview I watched.
And – not wishing to be picky – but sitting down, thinking and talking is, for the most part, the American response if I recall the two major conflicts of the 20th Century. Just because the current administration believes in a “High Noon” foreign policy doesn’t actually make it correct – if it did, the Coalition of the Willing (or Coalition of the Gullible) would have been greeted with garlands instead of grenades.
And – on a final level of pickiness – I think you’ll find that Europe is currently helping you with your wars as opposed to the other way round. If you’d like Europe to leave Afghanistan and Iraq, so that your administration can justify its isolation to the American electorate, please direct an e-mail to the relevant embassies. It’s not like Europe is getting anything in return other than body bags.
How about we do an MDN first and drag this thread back on-topic?
We’re really talking about how the record labels complicate international copyright. If the EU can force one big store for 27 countries, would Apple be able to extend that and have one global iTMS, thereby removing all remaining territories they aren’t operating in? After all, EU pressure about DRM did not have to result in DRM being abandoned globally but that looks like becoming the result.
If the EU can force one big store for 27 countries, would Apple be able to extend that and have one global iTMS, thereby removing all remaining territories they aren’t operating in?
Sure – the simpler the better for Apple and for the customers!
It would “just” require the labels to go global with their licensing policies.
Maybe you should start lobbying for a UN regulation body with actual teeth as a next step then, because I don’t see the labels going for that on their own…!
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I, for one, am glad the EU brought this complaint forward.
I spend a lot of time in Puerto Rico as such, I have to deal with the inconsistency of how many online US companies want to treat transactions with the island. To some, not an issue, to others (like Apple) uh ah uhm, you are in Puerto Rico we can’t ship there…
Give me a break Puerto Rico is a US territory and we are all US citizens from the day we are born…just shipt the damn computer or sell me a damn song via iTunes without making such a big fuzz.
By the way, all you eeeediots dissing Europe. You seriously need to take a trip to Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid (take your pick) and sit on a cafe, drink some beer, wine, coffee (whatever you prefer) and watch all the beautiful people walk by…then come back and tell me how things there are so bad. There are very few places (if any) in the US were you could do something like that.
And that, my friends, is life…trust me, just get your damn passport and go, go…go. Go! GO!
You guys still here?
Go.
ping – “Maybe you should start lobbying for a UN regulation body with actual teeth as a next step then, because I don’t see the labels going for that on their own…!”
Or maybe you lot should just join the EU
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Or maybe you lot should just join the EU
I think we should really draw the line at the chinese border on one side and at the US east coast on the other…!
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Hm. Okay, that would still more or less leave the door open for Puerto Rico…
Please direct your application at the EU headquarter in Brussels…
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What will Europe do if no-one buys the DRM-free tracks?
Perhaps this is all just a big bluff. I mean, really, what the f*** difference does it make to any iPod owner whether the music has DRM or not? How can you tell? That is, until you try to do something illegal.
And, yes, I know some of you have 657 computers in each of the rooms in your house and you simply have to have music playing in every one of them.
DRM/DRM-free. Yawn yawn yawn yawn yawn…
Unless you own a Zune. Is it true that you have to sych to a Vista PC every 11 minutes to stop your music being deleted? Where is Zune Tang when you need him…
@edward c norton
Evidently not as stupid as you…
I mean do you actually understand what this is about?
The EU is complaining because residents of one part of Europe can’t buy from an iTunes site in another part of Europe. It would be like Texans, bless their cotton socks, being unable to buy from an iTunes site in Wyoming (though why they would want to…).
I love the way Europe has become the new “communist” bogey for some American simpletons. McCarthyism obviously lives on in some dark corners of America…
The EU parliament is more or less the equivalent of the US federal government, though with somewhat less power in most areas.
Anyway, what the hell is wrong with socialism? It keeps the hobos off the streets… Each to his own – Europe has socialism, you have religion. Perhaps there is a connection: I have heard it said that Europe breathes a collective sigh of relief every time they remember they sent all their religious zealots to the USA…
Yeah sue Apple. But let MS keep raping your productivity, crappy OS release after crappy OS release. Idiots.
@Ben Dover
Mate. You guys can’t even manage a little tinpot arab nation like Iraq. What makes you think Europe are going to call on the USA to sort out a really serious issue? And then of course there was Vietnam – those primitive little asians. You really whupped their asses eh?
I think Charles de Gaulle put it best when he said (and forgive my unintentional paraphrasing) that the United States is the only nation in history to have gone from barbarism to decadence without ever encountering civilisation…
Churchill was apparently very grateful for American intervention in WWII – and equally horrified when the US refused to head off the Risskies before they could annex half of Europe and so set up the conditions for the Cold War. But then foreign policy was never a strength of American administrations…
Many citizens of those “established” parts of the EU (I don’t include the new eastern empire countries) look fondly at Americans and are always delighted, and surprised, when an American can (a) speak more than one language and (b) know something about anywhere other than America… You may not like it, but to the French, the Germans, the Dutch, the English, even the Belgians – America is only barely a member of the brotherhood of civilised nations. Perhaps in another 1,000 years…
This feeling is probably best summed up in the charming, if snooty, expression, “NOCD”…
Not our class, dear…
So don’t go throwing your weight around. It just draws attention to your appalling eating habits…
Europe = Eurotrash-commie-transexuals
And it does suck and they are very anti-american, and they couldn’t win a pillow fight let alone a war. And it’s a waste of time talking about these whining, commie, idiots. Terrorists will be wiped off the face of the earth. Nice back bone in dealing with Iran you fools. Take them out now!
Uh oh, Dave H the British gay man is afraid of a fight again. Surprise, surprise Davie.
Stephen
Time for you to turn your power off again…
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Sydney Stephen,
No human wants to mate with you. Believe me the US could handle Iraq if it wasn’t politically correct 2003-7. 50 years ago this problem would be over. The reason Iraq is taking longer than it should is because we care and are trying not to wipe out civilians you piece of commie garbage.
Uh oh, Dave H the British gay man is afraid of a fight again. Surprise, surprise Davie.
Yeah. Well, I’d kick your arse so hard you wouldn’t even feel me fuck you afterwards, you piece of shit. Enjoy that thought next time you play with yourself won’t you.
The EU is correct in embracing the spirit of world-wide access to music. This is not an anti-Apple stance, it is simply pointing out that the recording companies are restricting who can buy what song where.
It is absurd, for example that someone in the US can’t purchase a song from the Canadian iTunes store, or a Brit cannot buy music from the French iTunes.
What’s wrong with wanting global, equal access to the music of the world?
“You may not like it, but to the French, the Germans, the Dutch, the English, even the Belgians – America is only barely a member of the brotherhood of civilised nations. Perhaps in another 1,000 years… ”
Who gives a flying f*ck what the Germans (Nazis), Dutch (wood shoe-wind mill trolls), Lymies-crooked toothed brits, or Belgian waffles think besides themselves. I can guarantee you that no true American could care less. You people are so far gone you know what hits you when it comes around again. And hopefull the US sits back and remembers everything you’ve said and done to it and doesn’t lift a finger to help you trolls.
@Ricardo
Commie? Who is a commie these days? Even McCarthy is dead mate! No-one believes in communism. Thats a very tired old cliche… Just because I am not a fan of american foreign policy (well, thats stretching it really – “policy” implies someone thought about what might happen when the USA barged into the middle east on a pretext) does not mean I believe in Marxism or any other flavour of communism…
Nice try – if you are a 3rd grader. But it won’t wash.
No. Anti-Americanism, where it exists, is more likely based on the impact of American foreign policy rather than differences in social idealogy.
And the problem in Iraq are because you are the nice guys? Tell that to the millions of Iraqi families who have fled to neighbouring countries. And to the mothers who have lost husbands and sons both in Iraq and over there in the USA…
@Towertone
You need to get out more…
@Ricardo
Further…
What are you saying? That 50 years ago America would have been “politically incorrect” and solved the problem by wiping out the civilians?
What a nice guy you are…
SS
I put 450 miles on my JEEP yesterday. I believe I will stay at my desk today.
And again, you are showing your comic book education of America off with your McCarthy analogies.
Also, I believe Churchill was at Yalta.
World War II?
Is that the other war where the Americans turned up late, having sat on their hands making money from both sides for several years whilst the British, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders died by the truckload?
Still, at least when the communist menace of Grenada had to confronted you were there like a shot.
@@SydneyStephen
“I can guarantee you that no true American could care less.”
Well, perhaps you have hit the nail on the head. Perhaps that is why Americans are so unpopular – perhaps too many of you just don’t care about anyone else…
“You people are so far gone you know what hits you when it comes around again.”
You people? Are you dismissing all of Europe in one go? And just where do you think the boundaries of Europe extend to?
Matey, last time I looked, Sydney wasn’t very close to Europe…
But then you teach a different sort of science over there – so perhaps you teach a different sort of geography? The two-colour map kind of geography – “US” and “THEM”. Popular in the State Department I should imagine…
Now if there are any educated reasonable americans reading these posts and you are offended by this, ask yourselves were you offended by the anti-EU nonsense trotted out here today… You ought to be. No country is an island – and the USA will not be the world’s only super-power for much longer. I know many travelled and educated Americans who would agree with me that US foreign policy is the reason America is viewed so poorly in the world today.
I wouldn’t have thought many (if any) of the people submitting commentary on here are likely to be children. Yet so many people are actually proud to display their utter ignorance of the world…
Its time America put your house in order. Start teaching your children again. Start reading newspapers and listening to the news. Grow up a bit and be responsible world citizens instead of behaving like overgrown (and definitely overfed) teenagers.
And get rid of those turkeys in the white house…
We’re all in this together people… More so now than at any other time in history. And if you don’t know where Europe is, or where Australia isn’t, then for God’s sake go find a bloody atlas…
TowerTone
It’s true that Churchill was at Yalta, however he was largely marginalised during the talks by Roosevelt partially because FDR’s health was failing and he couldn’t face the fight that Churchill expected with Stalin and also because Roosevelt’s foreign policy objective was to cut British and French power in Europe after the war.
In keeping with much of US foreign policy, this was a complete disaster.
Go read some history books by people who were there, you might find it an education.
Why is this so hard to see? If you let some guy in France buy a tune from lets say the iTunes store in England – he ain’t gonna like it cause it will have that silly Brittish accent!
common people, get a clue! I say until they have an official recognizable easy to understand EU accent, no iTunes store for you!
On behalf of SydneyStephen, let me explain for the more intellectually challenged…
An atlas is a big book with maps in it. Maps are like drawings of countries, with rivers and everything done in nice pretty colours.
An atlas is very useful if you’re planning a journey or you just want to know where places are in the world. The world is a big round ball of rock that goes round the Sun (the bright orange ball in the sky) roughly every 365 days and six hours. Contrary to popular opinion (in the USA anyway), the big shiny thing in the sky was created several billion years ago.
An atlas will also tell you other things like how hot places can be and how much precipitation they get each year.
@Towertone.
When I said you need to get out more, driving to your local burger joint is not what I had in mind…
And, yes, Churchill was there. But he didn’t want to be there with Stalin already controlling so much of Europe. Roosevelt didn’t see what Churchill saw… the threat Stalinist Communist Russia was to become.
The iron curtain went up soon after…
This quote nicely sums up Churchill’s view of American foreign policy at the time: “Churchill knew that Roosevelt did not like the British Empire and, from Churchill’s point of view, did not understand it. He once wrote Churchill a long letter about India, using as an example the American colonies. Why, he said, do you not do what we did when we had our revolution? Churchill is not able to answer this letter; he thinks it’s so vastly ignorant of the situation in India that he doesn’t know what to say about it.”
Imagine what he would have thought of George Bush?
The quote is from the Churchill Centre – google it…
H-P
I believe part of that perspective YOU may want to check into is that America was having to consider a costly war of souls with the Japs, and that we wanted Russia to have NO PART in that.
Also, France was to relenquish its hold on Vietnam in return for their fight against the Japanese. And they, through Truman, went back on this agreemant, causing Ho Chi Minh to turn to *guess who* for aid to rid his country of occupiers.
And could you explain to me the failure of the Marshall Plan? NATO?
Much of our forign policy is directed mainly to help other countries. Is this the part you speak of?
What nationality are you, and what foreign policy do y’all have to help in matters?
These threads are always so amusing. It gives me such a great feeling of intellectual superiority watching these American right wing neanderthals express their ignorance about Europe (and the world in general). Kinda like when I pull out my MacBook in a room filled with Windows-sufferers.
Get the skinny here: http://www.thomas-fitzgerald.net/2007/04/03/eu-probe-into-itunes-seperating-fact-from-hysteria/.
Thomas explains clearly what is going on.
The short answer – It’s the labels, not Apple.
The music labels are to blame here no one else, especially Apple. It would be an easy case for Apple to prove that the music labels forced there hand to setup the stores in a certain way. Anyone can purchase and download songs from iTunes more so than any other online store which restricts users who only can access there stores using IE 6 or 7 which means the whole Mac market is cut out. That is more of a violation than anything Apple has ever done period.
The stupidity in europe is amazing lately.
Captain Europe
You sound more like Sergeant Schultz.
As a Canadian, I can’t help but laugh at the average American’s reaction to a newly united Europe.
In Canada we just had a ground breaking free trade pact between two provinces, Alberta and British Columbia.
That’s right, there is now free trade of goods, services and labour between 2 of the 10 Canadian provinces. No more ‘fees’ facing out-of-province workers. No more ‘import fees’ on out-of-province goods and services.
All such ‘fees’ were unconstitutional, but that never stopped the various provinces from collecting them.
Anyone can purchase and download songs from iTunes more so than any other online store which restricts users who only can access there stores using IE 6 or 7 which means the whole Mac market is cut out. That is more of a violation than anything Apple has ever done period.
Sure – and the Commission knows and acknowledges that.
The stupidity in europe is amazing lately.
You started out so well… and yet you fell so deep…
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Tower Tone: no, Sergeant Schultz vould speek like zees.
Did I mention the wet dream of the seat-farting euro burocrats coming true shortly?
I should feel pitty for the all those pathetic people living in this gulag of buracrazy…. NOT!!!
… buracrazy… ha get it?
I should feel pitty for the all those pathetic people living in this gulag of buracrazy…. NOT!!!
And you’re aware that you’re defending the myopic music distributors against Apple and the european consumers?
No, probably not. Pity.
Some people just don’t get it.
Towertone…
Let me get this straight – you’re digging back to 1947 to find an American foreign policy success (developed by a Democrat administration and progressively opposed by Republicans) as an example of the deft hand of US foreign policy.
That’s a joke, right.
Marshall was necessary to everyone: without it, Europe would probably have been even slower to recover from the nightmare of WWII – a nightmare which would have been less severe had the earlier policy of isolationism not excluded the US from joining the fight against fascism until the turn of 1942.
If you want to see how cack-handed and clumsy US foreign policy can be, look at Iraq now: Bremer’s plan appears to have been to apply some of the principles of the Marshall Plan in order to facilitate the rise of a democracy based on free-market principles. The only difference is that, instead of waiting for a civil uprising to create the opportunity for that plan, the hawks of this administration decided to bomb Iraq back into the Stone Age whilst simultaneously destroying its governmental structures so that it would have no choice other than change.
That’s not diplomacy or persuasion; that’s inhumane vandalism that has done nothing other than enrich those who have picked over the ruins of Iraq. And please don’t try and justify it by using the “isn’t the world a better place without Saddam” straw-man argument.
Civilised sovereign countries don’t invade other sovereign countries to achieve regime change, and they don’t falsify intelligence to create a casus belli so that there is thin veneer of justification.
Do you want other examples? Threatening to invade Saudi Arabia in 1973; the support of numerous repressive and corrupt tin-pot dicators like Pinochet, Somoza, Duvalier, Marcos just to name a few; the bankrolling of the Mujahaddin in Afghanistan – that’s a long-term strategy that’s paid off.
Please feel free to provide any examples of foreign policy developed by Republican administrations during the last 30 years that haven’t resulted in chaos in the long-term. Surely that’s a wide enough target.
Ping,
If you’re not careful, you’ll cause MacGuy’s “anti-rational” programming to go into overdrive and then there’ll be hell to pay.
He’s probably a relatively simple organism who can’t assess a situation unless someone tells him how he should think: in this case, someone has seemingly attacked Apple and he/she/it has to respond in the only way they know how.
It’s like a monkey throwing faeces around, but less endearing.
H-P
‘Civilised sovereign countries don’t invade other sovereign countries to achieve regime change, and they don’t falsify intelligence to create a casus belli so that there is thin veneer of justification.
‘
That’s right. They don’t. Seeing your perspective on this one event shows your prejudice toward the facts. Why bother? ANY event can be looked at through a prism of your own ideology, and see only it’s failures.
Again, your nationality?
H-P
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/3913
Funny, these are not all Democrats.
http://www.state.gov/www/policy.html
A few things we do.
H-P, your statement is so sweeping and vast in it’s incorrectnes you would need to rewrite world history since WWII to NOT see the positive effects of our policies. Are they 100% perfect? NO.
I named NATO and the Marshall Plan simply because they were the first 2 that came to mind after 1945.
Disagree with some of whet we do, fine. Blanket us as completely wrong, and you may need to have a friend help you pull your head out, as deep as it must be.
@Towertone
Thanks for the link to FP Review…
“…the authors of Inside the Ivory Tower asked 1,112 international relations scholars for their opinions on every administration since the original Rough Rider. Here’s how the scholars answered the question, “Which THREE U.S. presidents have been the most effective in the area of foreign policy over the past 100 years?”
George W Bush scored 1% of the votes. Still, that he got even 11 votes from “international relations scholars” suggests that not everyone understands that “international” does not mean “outside Texas”.
American foreign policy in recent times in the middle east, south america, and europe (and even the pacific – ask any new zealander) has been about promoting american interests at the expense of everyone else. It is a fact that American prestige around the world is at a low point. And, I have to say, it is all your own work…
The real question is, what will the US do about this? Change your behaviour towards the rest of the world, or sulk?
The US has been, in years gone by, a beacon of hope for many in the world. That is definitely not so true today. In fact, one could say, that the US stands as a benchmark for how NOT to run a society – what you would call “socialist” or “liberal” policies are promoted in Australia and Europe by pointing out appalling social outcomes in the USA where the divide between rich and poor has never been greater…
If Europe is becoming more socialist (probably true – just like Latin America, Australia and NZ) then it is not for want of the clear example set by the USA. I guess the way you lot live just doesn’t look that good from the outside…
…or from the inside if you are out of a job and have no healthcare huh?
This, from The Nation, April 2006…
Following Hugo Chávez’s 1998 landslide victory in Venezuela, one country after another has turned left. Today, roughly 300 million of Latin America’s 520 million citizens live under governments that either want to reform the Washington Consensus–a euphemism for the mix of punishing fiscal austerity, privatization and market liberalization that has produced staggering levels of poverty and inequality over the past three decades–or abolish it altogether and create a new, more equitable global economy.
I’m British, what’s your point?
I don’t regard every American administration’s foreign policy with disdain, or indeed every policy of a given administration.
But ask yourself how you can point me to a web page which then goes on to say…
The Office of War Crimes Issues (S/WCI) advises the Secretary of State directly on U.S. efforts to address serious violations of international humanitarian law committed anywhere in the world. These violations primarily concern large-scale atrocities including genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. The Ambassador-at-Large for War Crimes Issues coordinates U.S. support for the functions of the International Criminal Tribunals for the Former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, and the creation and operation of other courts and judicial mechanisms to bring perpetrators of international humanitarian law to justice. The Office of War Crimes Issues works closely with other offices at the State Department, other U.S. Government agencies, foreign governments, international organizations, and non-governmental organizations on all of these projects.
As the special envoy on war crimes issues, the Ambassador-at-Large works with the United Nations in consultation with the U.S. Mission to the United Nations on a number of issues involving the International Criminal Tribunals for the Former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, the International Criminal Court, and other projects and initiatives, including judicial mechanisms for Sierra Leone, Cambodia, and East Timor.
How the USA manages to do all of this whilst having argued for the dissolution of the UN’s tribunal on war crimes is anyone’s guess: however, the current administration’s selective lack of support for the institutions of the UN is hardly even considered news anymore – after all, who needs reliable mechanisms for delivering justice and the accompanying sentences when you can have botched executions in front of a baying mob viewed on the web.
Oh, here’s a clue…
The State Department web site below is a permanent electronic archive of information released prior to January 20, 2001. Please see http://www.state.gov for material released since President George W. Bush took office on that date. This site is not updated so external links may no longer function. Contact us with any questions about finding information.
Go to the new site and you don’t even see a reference to war crimes.
Says something about something, don’t you think?
What a waste of time it was to read this.