BoingBoing reader Brian Topping created this:
The New York Times’ Tom Zeller Jr. then blogged about it, writing, “This moment of geeky, user-contributed political Zen [is] perhaps more resonant with Mac users than those of the PC persuasion, but hey, a shout-out to the diminutive Apple gang! And PC users surely get the picture.”
“There’s likely to be more such visual humor in this vein, and there are those who would argue that a fair amount of it will be crafted on Macs (despite the fact that Macs continue to command only 3.5 – 4 percent of the American computer market),” Zeller Jr writes. “The suggestion, of course, is the bit of folk wisdom that Mac users tend to lean left … but is it true?”
Zeller Jr asks, “How about it Mac users? How did you vote yesterday?”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “bc” for the heads up.]
MacDailyNews Note: Zeller Jr is using old stats. Apple Mac’s share of the U.S. market is currently somewhere between 5.8-6.1% in Q3 06 according to IDC and Gartner respectively. That’s up from 4.6-4.8% U.S. market share in Q2 06, according to Gartner and IDC respectively.
Wednesday, October 18, 2006
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President Bush shows off his Apple iPod (link to video) – December 16, 2005
Rush Limbaugh announces video podcasts for Apple iPod starting December 12th – November 30, 2005
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U.S. President George Bush a confirmed Apple iPod user (images included) – December 22, 2004
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i’m ambidextruous.
Right, here.
I wouldn’t say that Mac users lean left, although I would hope most would…
But I think it’s safe to say that at least Mac Users are better informed about the world, and make better choices both in the voting booth, and in life. (Rush Limbaugh being the exception to the rule)
MDM word = college….like we all the Mac users went to college, although I KNOW that’s not true
Conservative across the board.
I will say that I am upset the Republicans couldn’t deliver on cutting government spending as they promised, but they did get attacked unexpectedly, had a hurricane hit New Orleans, etc., after all.
I used to vote for some Democrats, but then I grew up, got a job, and saw my money being wasted. Now I’m seeing my tax dollars wasted left and right, so to speak.
According to the polls, America leans left..
F*cking labels..
I wear a high heeled shoe on my right foot and a bedroom slipper on my left most days, so, yes, I do lean quite left.
But I’m a Mac user who happens to be a registered Republican. Imagine that. There are more of us than you think.
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“And so, for those folks saying, make sure there’s flexibility, I couldn’t agree more with you. And I think the characterization of let’s stay the course is about a quarter right. Stay the course means keep doing what you’re doing. My attitude is, don’t do what you’re doing if it’s not working, change. Stay the course also means don’t leave before the job is done”.
(Oct. 11, 2006)
I don’t think that being a Mac user or not gives you the propensity to lean left or right. The two are really unrelated, IMHO. MDN obviously leans right; others on this discussion board lean left. Some don’t care. At any rate, I think you can tell that we are a passionate group.
For Mac user since 128k, I am grown up and have a damn good job. I see that both sides waste my/your/our money. Conservatives used to be about small government and not spending our money. That’s not the case anymore. They spend just as much (if not more) of our money. They just aren’t concerned about taxing you for it. Instead, they pass that problem on to the future. Either way though, they are spending, just like the Dems. Neither is right. Both sides should learn to control their spending just like you and I have to.
I am glad the election season is over. Maybe we can get back to seeing tampon commercials instead of political ones!
Right leaning including my “johnson”. 3 Macs, 4 iPods and hopefully an iTV soon.
America will soon realise it’s voting mistake.
MDN word “land” as in Land of the free..
Who cares….how many republicans like Mountain dew? How many democrats are right handed? Big effin whoop.
I am a mac user since 1984 and I am neither
I’m Canadian
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I’m pretty conservative myself, and I’m a little amused and befuddled by the constant attempts to pigeonhole Mac users as “left” “right.”
It might be too self-congratulatory to say, but perhaps Apple fans are those who “think different.”
See from this angle, Rush is no longer an “exception” to the rule good taste, as Jeffrey suggests.
Regardless of whether you agree with him (Rush–not Jeffrey!), the fact is that in the midst of a left-leaning media establishment, he created a new market for talk radio and introduced intellectual diversity into that establishment. He’s a spectacular entrepreneur, even if you disagree with him.
Anyway, I’ll stop there and shield myself from the flying insults between extremists of all stripes, which are inevitable…
Peace.
Buster,
Don’t you get me started on the Mountain Dew!
imatt
Intellectual diversity?
INTELLECTUAL?
Rush Limpballs?
He’s high.
Best thing that could’ve happened for the Republican party last night:
Now America gets a dose of two years of Nancy Pelosi San Fran Liberal lunacy – I mean very, very far left. She may try to hide it, but she will fail to hide it for long.
Then, when 2008 election rolls around, they won’t vote Dem for president because Dems hold House and Senate. America will vote in a Republican President and, watch and see, they’ll sweep in a Republican House and Senate, too, because they’re fed up with Pelosi-brand, out-of-control, loonie Liberalism.
If you look at the ballet initiatives nationwide and see what passed and what didn’t, you will clearly see that the U.S. is more Conservative than Liberal. That’s just a fact. Mindless “swing” voters are upset with the war because Katie Couric puts on a sad face. These “swing” voters have no brains to speak of – they’re the same idiots buying Windows boxes year after year. They are just clay to be molded by whichever party has the upper hand that particular year.
Anyway, 2008 will yield GOP Prez and Senate and House (and we already have the Supremes, even if I did get screwed). Mark my words and congratulate me when it happens.
“America will soon realise it’s voting mistake.”
America DID realize it’s voting mistake and made it’s correction yesterday. In the words of the conservative party: “GET OVER IT!”
I would say it depends on how much they have had to drink….
And Jeffery, Rush has a fantastic outlook on life. You would have to listen to know. Not to change your political outlook, but your perception of him. You can learn a lot from enlightened people, even if you don’t agree with them politically.
also, anyone know any stories about this? I must have missed it elsewhere
http://www.bookendzdocks.com/Docking_Stations-Docking_Station_for_13_MacBook_White.html
Right leaning Libertarian
Black Republican Mac User.
Yes, it’s a lonely life, but not only did I get lustrous skin tone, I also got a high IQ.
Intelligent people of all political persuasions choose Macs. Perhaps the perception comes from most business being tied to Windows and Macs being used by graphic artists, writers, photographers, and other creative types. Since all those creative jobs pay less than big business, one could also conclude that Mac users are poorer, but that’s not true either. Registered Republican here, and I’ve been totally Microsoft-free for a year now – except at work 🙁
Nancy Pelosi is one crazy-ass liberal bitch.
LOL! Man, this is going to be fun to watch for two years! The Republicans are going to end up with a fscking super majority plus the presidency in 2008.
I bet Bush and Rove planned the whole thing.
That’s a good one, TowerTone.
Rush-
(Mexicans)
If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people–
I’m serious, let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely
no knowledge whatsoever to do–let the stupid and
unskilled Mexicans do that work.”
(Blacks)
“Why should Blacks be heard? They’re 12% of the population.
Who the hell cares.” -Rush Limbaugh
(Indians and VD)
“I don’t give a hoot that [Columbus] gave some Indians a
disease that they didn’t have immunity against” (Ought to Be, p. 45).
(Drug Abuse)
“And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs,
using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good
because we know what happens to people in societies and
neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if
people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought
to be accused and they ought to be convicted and
they ought to be sent up.”
very conservative and voted republican. I own 2 ibooks, 1 powerbook, 2 airports, 4 iPods and an old apple classic that still boots up
“Then, when 2008 election rolls around, they won’t vote Dem for president because Dems hold House and Senate. America will vote in a Republican President and, watch and see, they’ll sweep in a Republican House and Senate, too, because they’re fed up with Pelosi-brand, out-of-control, loonie Liberalism.”
You guys ruled for 6 years and produced nothing except a war, a deficit and rapidly destroying the middle class. 6 YEARS!!!!
What do the dems want to do? Increase minimum wage, cut the interest rates of students loans in half and re-negotiate with drug companies on a better prescription payment plan for the elderly. All of this within the first 100 hours of the new house and senate.
THIS is what the American people voted on. You conservatives had your moment to shine and failed miserably. No more corruption, no more free-loading off the American people and FINALLY the most important thing that we lost six years ago- Checks and Balances with our government.
MDN magic word: “Through”
As in the Republicans are through for a long time.
Jimbo von
I understand what you mean, but please remember there is a difference between conservatives and Republicans, who seem to be the drunken sailors right now.
That is like saying all Democrats are ultra liberal. Not true. The losers last night were both Republicans AND liberals. Being somewhat conservative is what got most of the Democrats elected. Too bad Pelosi is going to be their leader, even if it was her STRATEGARY in winning, she also showed that the far left cannot win on their true beliefs.
Civil Rights Left leaning (militarilly right leaning I guess, running an empire is a dirty business) pseudo-libertarian…
I feel like someone has kicked me in the balls.
What’s a guy to do?
Zeller Jr is using old stats. I lean heavily to the right and my whole family have been sold on Macs for years.
I am a right winger, very pro military. We need to spend another 25% more on our military. Am also liberal on some social issues. If you want to stick your fingers in your buddy’s butt and lick it out, Good for you.
My mother, Eileen, used to lean to the left. then she got a lift in her left shoe. she’s a Mac user. So it must be true.
Liberal-
“You guys ruled for 6 years and produced nothing except a war, a deficit and rapidly destroying the middle class. 6 YEARS!!!!”
A war you mean…that has kept the fight out of our country and left it over there. Our citizens are protected while our soldiers perform the duty they signed up for… yeah then that’s what we accomplished.
A deficit…something that has ALWAYS occurred during wartime…but nice how you ignore our hot economy that Bush’s tax cuts caused.
Minimum wage? You mean what only 2% of our workforce gets paid and the govn’t artificially sets wages which hurts our small-medium businesses???
Puh-leaze
Always Right
I’m sure if you provide people with a link to put those quotes in context, they would make more sense.
I know what he means when I hear him, but the printed word doesn’t always do justice, especially when it is just a partial quote. I could do this right here
“That’s a good one, TowerTone”
See how easy that was?
And, no, I don’t agree with him on everything, or anyone else for that matter.
Apparently, the 20 or 30 neocons smart enough to use macs are in good voice tonight.
Go figure.
The country has spoken, and loudly. Be part of the solutions, or go find a banana republic to take over and move there. Iraq perhaps? I’m sure you’d be welcomed with open arms. The majority of this country has had enough of your screed.
Towertone is correct.
Ideologies changr.
It is worth noting that durng the LINCOLN years, Democrats were considered to be conservative.
The inverse is true, as well.
I find that like myself, that while MOST people Lean one way or another, MOST people see things in shades of GREY. As opposed to “red” or “blue”.
(Which is another stupid concept all its own, red & blue).
WE ARE PURPLE.
Go NANCY PELOSI! (Just flaming now).
See, some liberals are thinking they are SO superior to any right wingers and they are just SO smart. You are smart by a half. Simpleton Utopian Snobs.
Hi Mike.
What are you wearing?
My father and mother, and their generation, defeated Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in 4 1/2 years. I think a Democrat known as FDR had something to do with it.
5 years later, no Bin Laden.
Remember him?
Almost a majority (after all, in the US you don’t have to get the most votes to win so it’s not really a democracy) of americans are morons for selecting Bush a second time. You guys deserve all the shit that’s happening to you.
I believe in strong defense, low taxes, fiscal responsibility, useful entitlements – not entitlement abuse, limited welfare, no gay marriage, no affirmative action, all men are created equal (and all women, too), discrimination should be punished when proven, and prefer a hands-off government when it come to business and regulation.
I also believe that President Bush is smarter than most would give him credit for, but that he’s a terrible public speaker.
I use Macintosh.
I also believe that Republicans lost their way a bit, spent way too much on entitlements, can’t get effective control of our borders, and they needed to be reminded to get back to what they stand for and do the things we elected them to do.
wow, i’m very surprised how many MacDailyNews readers are conservatives. as a strong conservative (military and financially very Republican and socially moderate), i had always assumed that you guys are mostly liberals… my logic being: creative = artists = socially left leaning communists.
i was wrong…and i’m very glad.
i say ‘think different.’ don’t follow the herd. you don’t have to please everybody. just do what you think is right no matter how unpopular. I think the Mac crowd stands not only for being creative, but going against mindless populist rip-offs (Windows & extreme left liberals).
there is a reason why the famous 1984 commercial depicts Apple destroying what appears to be a communist-run Windows world.
you guys made my day…
Well, many of us in the “creative class” lean whatever direction we can:-)
If you want to see some serious “left to right” whiplash/cross the board, check out the variety of candidates that won in MN, my home state.
BTW, one of our newest representives (Bachman) is actually so intellectually challenged, she makes “Dubya” look like an “A” student.
I spent some time talking to her; not exactly her “own woman” ( but you could barely see her handlers/her husband’s lips moving, standing behind her when she spoke;-).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantailmedia/
bond co. stooge,
Yeah, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton are going to get Bin Laden.
Go get him, girls!
Ah yes, Towertone. Extolling the virtues of Rush Limbaugh, and not sarcastically either. The same Rush Limbaugh who has the guts to insult and degrade Michael J Fox because he has a terrible illness and would like to bring a message about stem cells to the public. What a crime. But the real crime is actually having the disease. Why try to save them if they’re just going to whine and complain and fake it?
Now THAT’S an enlightened outlook on life.
Check it out.
Towertone-
What possible context would excuse those statements?
Like this one, for instance?
“When you strip it all away, Jerry Garcia
(former Grateful Dead guitarist) destroyed his life on
drugs. And yet he’s being honored, like some godlike
figure. Our priorities are out of whack, folks.”
See? He’s a COMEDIAN.
True independent here, but I leaned a little right in this election, about 60-40. I didn’t mind having the Dems take over for awhile though because at least that will make all the ultra libs shut up for a couple years.
To M.A.D
“A deficit…something that has ALWAYS occurred during wartime…but nice how you ignore our hot economy that Bush’s tax cuts caused.
Try and read the rest of this sentence slowly so that it sinks in: If a deficit “ALWAYS” occurs during wartime, then why would you also cut taxes? Wouldn’t taxes pay for things like war? Isn’t that the idea behind taxes, to pay for things? Explain this “fuzzy” math: War+Tax Cuts = “hot economy”
“Minimum wage? You mean what only 2% of our workforce gets paid and the govn’t artificially sets wages which hurts our small-medium businesses???”
OMG!!! Do you even know what your saying? This sentence sums up why your party NO LONGER holds power in our government. States where minimum wages are higher than the federal minimum wage has seen growth. Google it you fucking retards.
Bush is no cunning linguist, just ask Laura
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Rothstein–ever heard of Boadicea? Google her.
I guess you’ve never had a woman really mad at you. Maybe you don’t know any. I don’t know.
FIVE FSKING YEARS, YOU NITWIT! And sexist girlie shit is all you got?
Wimp.
Just for the record, I voted for responsible, centrist Democrats. The Republicans have failed us pretty miserably in MN of late; they raided the cookie jar worse than anyone of either party has here, but then didn’t want to pay for it.
Robbing from Peter to pay Paul (and then claiming a balanced budget) is NOT being “conservative”; it’s lying. And calling the kind of people I’m proud to have as friends and coworkers “sick and perverted” is not “Christian”, it’s called hate.
Here’s hoping ALL the newly elected and re-elected officials everywhere remember it’s a JOB, and do the work of the people. As in get some HONEST work done; roads, bridges, schools, etc. Don’t waste my money arguing about who should marry who, etc.
And bring the National Guard home, where they belong.
“But I think it’s safe to say that at least Mac Users are better informed about the world, and make better choices both in the voting booth, and in life.“
Which would tend to make them more conservative. Uneducated, low income (or no income) people tend to vote for Democrats. This is because the social programs (such as welfare) are endorsed by nearly all democrats and thus sustain an income for people who made poor choices in life (dropping out of high school, etc.). The more successful you are in life (i.e. more income) the more conservative you tend to be since people who make more are taxed more, another Democrat idea. Wealthy Democrats also tend to donate to charity more (i.e. tax write off), which is odd because they can pay more taxes than they are required, but none do. Odd eh?
I’m a Republican Mac user and proud of it! (incase you hadn’t figured it out yet)
Democrat all the way.
Last night we drank Republican blood. So many Republicans fell … so much power lost … we threw the corrupt bastards out, and the white house is next.
I could probably vote for McCain though
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And I love my Mac.
Well, it looks like the Republicans got spanked today. As a citizen of the US, my patriotism today swelled upon hearing the news.
Does that make me a typical Mac user? Well I certainly hope so.
I carry a gun.. and use a Mac.. what does that make me… ?
And don’t say something stupid.. or i’ll shoot you… cuz my guns make me do things….
Dukemeiser, read this please. It has mosly small words, and might help you.
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm
Mac user since almost day one (1985) and although in my first Presidental election I voted for Reagan, I realized the error of my ways soon after and have generally been voting Democrat or Libertarian since.
I don’t think of myself as exceedingly liberal (I do think capitalism is a good thing, but it’s a model of human behavior, and like all models has domains where it doesn’t work so well). I want to keep the church out of our government and schools, and a strong beliver in civil liberties.
But I’m sure that since I contribute to MoveOn and post occasionally on Daily Kos, by the standards of our corporate media I am a crazed liberal terroist-appeasing baby-raping moonbat!
Frank
I wasn’t the one who brought Rush up, but of course I take the hits.
I am no fan of John Kerry’s, but I am intelligent enough to know that his statement was misconstrued.
You failed to mention any of the praise Rush had for Fox, or that he agreed with much of what he thinks.
You also failed to mention the whole controversy is not over stem cell research but instead over cloning.
I guess if I got all my news from You Tube, I would be confused, too.
Being liberal and a Mac user, I have to stand up say Americans are so far right, it’s almost frightening. We think having equal acces to health care it communism, that’s self defeating. How easy would it would for the government to insure every child in school got an organic multi-vitamin/mineral supplement after lunch?
Radical? … for people living with their heads in the sand. Here’s a curve ball to all you Machiavellian, Leo Straussians, Ayn Randians, Libertarians, Conservatives, et al., I’m a socialist libertarian… I don’t trust big business yet., we’ve got some evolving to do. Utopia is not simple, it’s a goal, can you think of anything better to do?
mn: east
Right here, several Macs, several iPods, etc. Libs suck!! Would never by a PC
I voted for change. I’m a long time member of the “Throw the Bums Out Party”
Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter. If they’re in office, they are only there to line their own pockets. So I vote for the challenger – they’ll have to behave themselves, at least for a little while.
@Frank:
“Ah yes, Towertone. Extolling the virtues of Rush Limbaugh, and not sarcastically either. The same Rush Limbaugh who has the guts to insult and degrade Michael J Fox because he has a terrible illness and would like to bring a message about stem cells to the public.”
You just proved Rush Limbaugh’s point correct, the very point he was driving that whole week–the fact that people were using a victim with an illness so that nobody could criticize the ad ‘lest they be labeled as cruel and heartless. Sorry, but the moment you enter the political arena, your ideas can be criticized, regardless of your condition. Relying on a victim and then attacking critics simply because the victim has a condition is a copout that halts intellectual debate.
Never mind that the issue isn’t stem cells. It’s embryonic stem cells. Fox’s commercial didn’t make the distinction, so it’s understandable if you weren’t informed about the cloning amendment’s purpose or that you weren’t aware of Rush’s full comment, which was that Fox was either “acting or off his meds.” The latter turned out to be true, and it’s not the first time Fox has done it, as detailed in his own autobiography. The media only reported the “acting” part.
Sorry to defend Rush Limbaugh, but I actually find his show entertaining even when I disagree with him, and I didn’t get what the big deal was over the Fox comments since I actually listened to the show when he said it. I doubt any of his critics did.
Republicans are sitting around stunned and licking their wounds today because the majority of Americans — whose politics trend toward the center rather than the extreme right or left wing — were disgusted with the sheer nastiness, corruption, and rigid, arrogant ideology driving the failed policies of the Iraq War and guiding the party in power.
–There are 34,000 lobbyists showering money on Congress/political parties and reaping those rewards. What’s wrong with that picture?
–100 people die each day in and around Baghdad, many of their bodies dumped in the streets and showing signs of torture. Sectarian militias control entire cities. If that kind of body count occurred in an American city, think anyone would be upset? Gosh, no wonder the Pentagon’s bar chart shows Iraq as edging ever closer to chaos.
–Our trillions of dollars in national debt has ballooned during this administration and the burden will affect future generations. China owns over $1 trillion in total American debt, but I’m sure that’s nothing to worry about because Communist China only has America’s best interest at heart.
Nancy Pelosi may lean left in her personal beliefs, but she’s now the Speaker of the House charged with pulling her group together — including lots of newly elected moderate Democrats — and working with Republicans to accomplish mutual goals. Ditto for Harry Reid, now the likely Senate Majority Leader. They HAVE to move to the center to get anything done — and because they also know that moderate Americans put them in power.
And you know what, if the Democrats screw up their chance this time, we can throw them out just like we did their predecessors Tuesday.
That’s one of the best things about being an American.
Liberal,
Tax cuts create greater tax revenues for the government. I understand this may seem incongruous at first glance, but it’s not. Prosperity breeds prosperity.
A fun little quiz: Match the people (Rush Limbaugh, Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, John F. Kennedy) to the quotes below:
1. “Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15.”
2. “If you’re not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you’re not a conservative at 40, you have no head.”
3. “An economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now.”
4. “No nation ever taxed itself into prosperity.”
1) Reagan
2) Churchill
3) Kennedy
4) Rush
What do I get? What do I get?
@ Hymen Rothsien, who says:
“Yeah, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton are going to get Bin Laden.
Go get him, girls!”.
I WAS GONNA GIT’ ‘EM, BUT NOW I’M HELPING THE VARIOUS FACTIONS IN IRAQ FIGHT THIER OWN CIVIL WAR. STAY THE COURSE.
SINCE I WAS RAISED WITH A SILVER SPOON IN MY MOUTH (AND ONE IN MY NOSE, EH, RUSH, OL’BUDDY?!?), I DON’T HAVE ANY REAL SENSE OF MONEY. IT’S ALL “FUNNY MONEY” TO ME. SHOOT, I CAN SPEND LIKE THERE’S NO TOMORROW! (I AM ODDLY PROPHETIC).
OSAMA’S OVER THERE IN AFGHANISTAN.
Uhh — Gosh, I — don’t think I ever said I’m not worried about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those, uhh, exaggerations.
— To quote President Bush (3/13/2002): “I — I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.” Third Presidential Debate, Tempe, Arizona, Oct. 13, 2004
Oh, sorry, I’m not liberal.
ignore that last post
Right Winger,
I believe in strong DEFENCE, ADEQUATE taxes, fiscal responsibility, useful entitlements – not entitlement abuse, limited welfare, no gay marriage, BUT CIVIL RECOGNITION OF UNIONS OUTSIDE OF CHURCH-SANCTIONED MARRIAGE no affirmative action, BUT EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY all men are created equal (and all women, too), discrimination should be punished when proven, and prefer a hands-off government when it come to business and regulation EXCEPT WHERE PROTECTION OF WORKERS AND THE ENVIRONMENT IS CONCERNED.
I also believe that President Bush is smarter than most would give him credit for, but that he’s a terrible public speaker. HE CERTAINLY COULDN”T VERY WELL BE LESS SMART THAN PEOPLE RECKON.
I use Macintosh.
I also believe that Republicans lost their way MASSIVELY, spent way too much on entitlements, can’t get effective control of our borders OH, WHATEVER. IF THE EMPLOYEES STOP HIRING, THERE IS NO MORE PROBLEM, BUT BUSINESSES WILL HURT AND COSTS WILL GO UP, and they needed to be reminded to get back to what they stand for and do the things we elected them to do. TRUE.
****
Those are my edits to your well-presented statement. In Australia, we also have social medicine, high minimum wages and comparatively low executive salaries. The benefit that we get for the extra expense is a pleasant and safe society that requires much less policing than in the USA. The society is much less religious and is more accepting of de facto relationships. Different societies are different. Our society works well for us. We have a government that is fiscally conservative (which is a good thing) that implemented strict gun regulation and a gun buy-back (which is also a good thing). They do have trouble with social issues such as accepting and moving on from past ill-treatment of Aborigines. The government also can’t seem to let go of the Queen, though that will change over the next few years. John Howard can also be immoral and opportunistic (which has been a very bad thing, but you have seen some of that in the US as well.
Libertarian- leaning right on many issues (voted for W) but not in support of the right wing views regarding pro-life, gay marriage- does that make me a Schwarzengger republican?
ahh the gear….
Macbook, powerbook 15, powerbook 12, 2 ipods, Nano, 2 shuffles!
and most importantly, I have converted at 9 PC using friends- they got Mac and aint going back!
Thanks for all the chuckles MDN…
Loyal, devoted Mac fan for many years. Also a registered Republican.
I’m also a member of the creative class and have designed some pretty high-profile, well-known stuff. I think the notion that artists have to be leftists is a stale leftover idea from the high point of the baby boom generation.
These days it’s much more innovative, cutting-edge and radical to go against the tired old hippies like John Kerry, Ted Turner, the New York Times and virtually all of academia. Socialism – yawn. 1968 – over, so over.
This latest election, with all the conservative Democrats winning, will be more about a long-term realignment of the Democratic Party away from the fossilized hard Left than it is about the current Republicans.
Preston says-
“…the fact that people were using a victim with an illness so that nobody could criticize the ad ‘lest they be labeled as cruel and heartless…”
Oh, you mean disingenious?
Like when Repubs, or nuts like Hannity interupt a conversation with the question “Wait, Yes or No. Do you support our troops? Answer the question” (Who would say no?).
More bullshit from the right.
Good Bye, and Good Luck.
Oh, and Rush IS a big fat idiot.
To my leftest buddy, Liberal-
Tax cuts stimulate an economy because it helps entreprenuers and businesses grow. This in turn provides more jobs. The Govn’t gets a boost from this because they tax all these new businesses and they tax all the new employees. Now these are NEW tax revenue streams and not higher taxes that Libs always push. Because of Bush’s brilliant move, the economy grew extremely well. Got it?
Now a hot economy and the new tax streams are not enough to hold off a budget deficit when in a war. It hasn’t happened ever in the past and should be no surprise now. Ah, and another small point. Bush brought the deficit down more than half 2 years before expected. Nice work, eh?
Yes, 2% of workers are at minimum wage. This is not a problem for the economy like it was in the early 90s when around 15% were at that level. Most of these 2% are the dropouts, the lazy ones who are not willing to work hard to get anywhere. So why should any govn’t step in and tell a business what contract they should have with an employee?? I do know what I’m saying and it’s that socialism at that level has no place in the U.S. It unfairly sets wages in a free market, and strains buisinesses who’s payrolls are becoming a burden.
“there is a reason why the famous 1984 commercial depicts Apple destroying what appears to be a communist-run Windows world.”
I hardly think that Microsoft can be depicted as communist
I’m really smarter than I sound? Really? Gee, thanks. I know I present a fine depiction of presidential stature.
Look at some of the smart stuff I’ve said. (I like to read these out loud, using Will Farrel’s imitation of me).
I worked with [Arizona Congressman] Rick [Renzi] to pass what’s called the Healthy Forest Initiative. See, his district has got a lot of important forests. It means that we can work together with local folks to thin out those forests so they’re not full of combustionable fuel.
— Scottsdale, Arizona, Oct. 4, 2006
I was not pleased that Hamas has refused to announce its desire to destroy Israel.
— White House, May 4, 2006
One way to aleve the pressure on price is to expand the use of liquified natural gas through new terminals.
–Feb. 21, 2006
Oh, gosh, I’m tryin’ ta pick examples, but everything I say is like that.
Here, see for yourself.
http://www.dubyaspeak.com/
M.A.D.
What do you think about the US system of businesses paying for medical costs for employees? That is certainly much more of a burden than a slightly higher minimum wage. Medical expenses in the US (I think) are much higher than in most other countries. The system is very ad hoc, so it would be difficult to argue that the extra expense is actually paying for something useful.
It really is an odd system, because government pays for medical coverage of the military, public employees and the elderly. When you add it up, a huge fraction of the US population has medical expenses paid from the public purse. Where is the logic in the statement that an organised, government-funded medical system is a bad thing because the government shouldn’t be responsible for paying for medical coverage?
Anyone see the Fox “news” team this morning?
Thta little dweeb, Brian. Looked like he was going to CRY!!
(Actually, so did Rummy, today).
Prez
Do you ever, just for shits and giggles, try to understand what he is saying, instead of how he says it?
I guess I have never heard anything you have to say, just quotes of our President which are, admittedly (by him), poor grammer.
I think you have missunderestimated him, just like many of you have on the number of right leaning Mac users.
I think you are confusing totalitarianism and communism. Communist (probably actually socialist) governments do not have a monopoly on totalitarianism.
Minimum wage is a scam by the unions. Their wages and raises are tied to the minimum wage. So I have a company with many employees who are getting wages based on skill and longevity. All of a sudden the minimum wage is raised, so all my first year workers get a raise, making them level with the next higher level, so they get a raise –and on–and on–and on. What happens to the cost of my product? You guessed it. I have to raise the cost of it. Nancy Pelosi and her gang will upset the balance of business.
Left to Right Scale
Commie, Socialist, Liberal, Mac-user, Centrist, Conservative, NeoCon, Fascist, FNC Fan
dukemeiser:
your statements indicate an inability to step outside of your own life and into others situations. This is a typical right-wing problem. Let me demonstrate
“Uneducated, low income (or no income) people tend to vote for Democrats. This is because the social programs (such as welfare) are endorsed by nearly all democrats and thus sustain an income for people who made poor choices in life (dropping out of high school, etc.).”
The above statement assumes that everyone votes for themselves only. Now the typical right winger might vote conservative because they might cut his taxes and that’s good for him, but a left winger might vote for the government that promotes social welfare, becuase it will be good for the community as a whole.
“The more successful you are in life (i.e. more income) the more conservative you tend to be since people who make more are taxed more, another Democrat idea.”
Only if as you become richer, you become more selfish, which may be true, but its probably hard to prove. BTW the progressive taxation system was introduced by Abraham Lincoln in 1862 – I think he was a Republican
“Wealthy Democrats also tend to donate to charity more (i.e. tax write off), which is odd because they can pay more taxes than they are required, but none do. Odd eh?”
Is there a statistic you can quote here or is this just your belief? It rather looks like blind belief to me, but that’s just my belief, or maybe suspicion.
Conservative here. I’m unhappy not so much that the Republicans lost last night, but that the Democrats won. I do believe that the Republicans did not deserve to win last night with the way the Party’s been acting the last four years. Oh, well. There’s always 2008.
Wrong there, Politico, unless you were trying humor.
Neo Cons are to the left of Conservatives, and are considered by many to be an offspring of Scoop Jackson Democrats.
Also, Facism is a closer relative to Communism than it is to conservatism, which is against everything Facism stands for, no matter what the bloggers at MoveOn say.
NeoCons are to the RIGHT of traditional Conservatives. Goldwater would be apoplectic if he knew what BushCo has done in the name of Conservatism. NeoCons are by their very nature authoritarian and corporatist, which puts them just shy of the extreme right. I cut my political teeth in the Reagan Revolution and know the difference.
No I was aware of the difference, I was merely reacting to an earlier comment, branding the prior windows world as communist. I would think that it may be reministcent of the dour and run-down world of George Orwell’s 1984, but that world was run by a fascist regime, not communist. But, of course they were, also, totalitarian.
TowerTone-
I’m sorry. He is just NOT presidential material. I hear what you are saying, though, but you can’t fault mefor presenting actual words from the actual mouths of the subjects in question.
Also- I appreciate that you owned up to the Kerry incident for what it is, just as other good REAL conservatives have (like Pat Buchanan, for instance).
Although, personally, I am of the opinion now, that Kerry should stick to policy-making and legislation, but he should just STFU.
There a are a lot of right wing dim bulbs here (Left, too, but not nearly as many).
You aren’t one of them.
Politico Meter-
on the mark.
Lean left? What an insult. If it were true, I’d go Windows. One thing I will NEVER tolerate is being grouped with a bunch of whiny, what can the government do for me liberals. UGH!!!!
Mr Jones
Your statements might indicate the same. It is all in how you view the world.
Maybe a right winger votes for less taxes because it is good for the economy and thus helps remove many from the welfare lines, which in turn is BETTER for the community as a whole.
I believe the taxes Lincoln introduced were to pay for a war to free the slaves that the Democrats owned.
I repeat.
Ideologies were largely reversed during Lincoln’s tenure.
DEMOCRATS were viewed as conservative.
Is this not true? (I’m asking).
imaki-
“My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you: Ask what you can do for your country.”
Dell or Gateway?
politico
I guess it depends on the type of scale you are using. My far right scale stops at true conservatism. Less government, less taxes, strong defense, and a social system that gives a hand up, not a hand out (I know Reagan, too)
As you move to the left, government takes on more responsibility, meaning people take less, and consequently, they take more money.
Of course, this a very simplified view, but it helps me keep the size of government in perspective. In that regard, neocons are to the left, then Republicans, moderates, Democrats, liberals, and then Frank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_M._Jackson
sorry, quickest source I could find
“Also, Facism is a closer relative to Communism than it is to conservatism, which is against everything Facism stands for, no matter what the bloggers at MoveOn say.”
trying to resist, trying to…ah damn it.
TowerTone, I dont agree.
There probably needs to be a good definition of conservatism here, but if I’m allowed to use another lable like “right wing” then I can offer that there are some similarities in the positions of right wing people I’ve heard over the years and the ideas espoused by fascist regimes.
Not all of them mind, but certainly some. Most of those ideas surround levels of allowable criticism of the government, the need to control or moderate thought, and the need for an enemy to be scared of. All of these qualities have characterised the Bush administration – though that’s a little unfair as I class these as neo cons, which are somewhat more extreme than your average conservative. For example, I’ve been told by people to “get a job” by bystanders when I’ve ever marched in protests. Not withstanding the fact that I do have a job, and it was a Saturday, anyway, the main point is that social dissent was distasteful to that bystander, and he felt he needed to belittle me. Thus I considered him to be of a more conservative bent. In other words “shut up, get on with your work, your governent knows what its doing”.
Now I’m not actually saying that the conservative position is closer to facism than communism is, I’m merely saying that its not very clear cut.
Communism can be similar to facism as well. Oh and by the way I mean full communism, not socialism. During Lenin’s reign in the USSR there were large diferences between Lenninist Russia and say Mussilini’s Italy, but when Stalin was in power, they could almost be judged identical. I think that had more to do with Stalin than it did with communism, but it did prove that communism was easily co-opted as a system, to suddenly lurch to tyhe right.
wow, a long screed there, sorry I wasn’t more brief
can you believe that my magic word was “soviet”?
from TowerTone:
Rush has a fantastic outlook on life. You would have to listen to know. Not to change your political outlook, but your perception of him. You can learn a lot from enlightened people, even if you don’t agree with them politically.
DUDE! Did you just call Rush Limbaugh “enlightened”??? Holy crap that’s hilarious!
TowerTone
“Your statements might indicate the same. It is all in how you view the world.”
yes, I know, that’s what I was trying to say. His statement:
“Uneducated, low income (or no income) people tend to vote for Democrats”
I thought was rediculous, I doubt stats bear this out, but it does show that he may have selfish voting tendencies, which he projects onto everyone else.
Trouble is, Perle, Feith* and most notably, Wolfowitz are the biggest offenders in terms of this BS “war”, instead of concentrating on the real terrorist threat that IS LOOMING, and is going to whack us 9/11 style again.
* And bremer, these allJackson protege’s.
Speaking of whiners-
Tom DeLay.
What sour grapes, “they didn’t win, we lost” .
Sniveling twit.
Tell you what, most of the “Left-leaners” I know would kick his ass! (Literally and otherwise).
Now we come to a point in the right/left meaning as it applies to different times and cultures.
It would be hard to apply conservative and liberal labels as we know them to places like Communist or Czarist Russia, because in its truest form, one means to conserve the essence of a society, while the other implies to liberate it. But for and from what? That is why it is so hard to transplant our ideals to other times.
I am a consevative in 2006. but because of some of my beliefs, I would have been called a moderate in 1956, and possibly a liberal in 1906.
I would have been a liberal to the Bolsheviks in 1916, even as they thought of themselves the “liberators” two years before.
It’s all relative to the time and place.
Islandgirl, you are so sexy when you bust out with reality an shit.
Rhetorical question, right?
TT says:
“That is why it is so hard to transplant our ideals to other times”.
It should also be said
“That is why it is so hard to transplant our ideals to other CULTURES”.
MW “final”.
My final thought.
GOOD NITE!
Hey Towertone, I got one for you to “see through” and show me the intelligence behind what he’s trying to say —
“That’s George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing about him is that I read three—three or four books about him last year. Isn’t that interesting?”
— May 5, 2006
Now, please, without further ado, translate…
Just to twist your minds into a knot, the clearest example of the successful implementation of communist ideals in America is the family unit, in which self sacrifice for the benefit of the unit as a whole is highly valued. The other good example would be religious groups who espouse the same principles. The best example of totalitarian control would be the essentially fascist governance of the military. The republican platform promotes family values and the church (communist ideals) as well as limited government interference, independence and democracy (which contradicts the foundation of military governance). My comments are not meant to be critical at all, but rather to point out that we can all understand and relate to the full spectrum of political ideology, but differ in its application in different contexts.
One other thought . . .
With Reagan, Bush and changing social attitudes redefining conservatism, the label is becoming so broad as to be meaningless.
On my terminology of Facism, I mean it in its truest form as it relates to Hitler and Mussolini, not as the slang used by the left to denegrade the rights position on matters.
Now, as a theory of Facism, nationalism and race, war and expansion are used, but in reality, it is no more than a different slant on totalitism as it gives the state complete control over all aspects of the economy, religeon, and the culture of the country. This is completely 180˚ off of true conservatism.
I guess that’s why they came up with “neocon”. GWB and the posse that pulls his strongs went soooooooo far right, that the cord snapped and they needed a new term. The extremism got a new word.
G-Spank
Get your sister to do your homework
“strongs” – hehe it’s late and I’m going to sleep…
Oh snap! TowerTone the only way you can handle me is with childish insults, beatch! It’s all you got!!!
Now get to work and translate that quote!!!
Always Right
I did. In the first line
G-Spank
consistant as mud
“Oh snap! TowerTone the only way you can handle me is with childish insults, beatch! It’s all you got!!!”
“Islandgirl, you are so sexy when you bust out with reality an shit.”
Republicans… Pro torture, against women’s rights, against homosexual rights, against civil liberties, pro big business, against health care, against education, against the right to a fair trial, against the constitution if it gets in the way of short-term profit. As Bush said, the constitution is “just a God damned piece of paper!”
Democrats are the new conservatives. Republicans are out of touch with the heart and soul of America, taking away our rights, accountable to no one, unconcerned with the will of “we the people”, breaking laws then modifying the law afterwards, invading Iraq for no good reason with no exit strategy. Democrats are interested in conserving what is valuable to us as a people in the long term. Republicans are interested only in conserving their wealth and power.
How about the last couple of months? Can you say “pedophile”? How about “taking illegal drugs with a gay prostitute”? That’s the moral party for you. I think “GOP” is starting to stand for something else these days – maybe they should rethink their anti-gay policies.
So finally, “we the people” have spoken. We now have the majority of the House, the Senate and the Governorships. All your seats are belong to us, thank God. Hopefully we can keep Dubya from screwing over the USA any further.
Mr Jones
“Uneducated, low income (or no income) people tend to vote for Democrats”
I don’t think he meant ONLY these people vote Democrat, or that all Democrats are poor and stupid, at least I don’t think so.I voted Republican even when I was poor. but most of the low income people I know-and it is a whole bunch,almost all vote Democrat. So I can only speek from experience, not polls or stats.
Wow, so I can see the MDN is frequented by a bunch of rednecks. I should have known – just take a quick glance at the beautiful layout and the quality of content… YEE HAW!
Can you say “lame duck”? I knew you could.
I have used a Mac since 1984; I think of us as a family so to speak we are all involved in our little community being Mac Users. I don’t think of us as geeks but I do think that we “think different” and outside the box. We are independent thinkers and knowledgeable people; many of us met our first Mac in college. I met my first Apple in 1984 when visiting a family friend known to be well off and say my first smiling Mac and I have not stopped smiling since =)
… And I lean right. (But I vote independent I research the candidates and do what I can to make this world a better place with all the charity work I do.
Finally USA is going towards the democracy.
No there is only one thing left = George Bush resigns.
Exit Strategy? What kind of strategy did we have in WWII? (the short version)
– Sit around waiting to get blind side by the Japanese.
– The Japanese attack Pearl Harbor, and what the first place we invade? North Africa to fight the Germans, where in our first battle Rommel and the Afrika Korps kicks our ass!
– Later, prepare to invade Northern Europe, where we lose more men in the first day than during the last 2 years in Iraq.
– As we drive across Europe, hoping to win the war by Christmas, when the ‘depleted and defeated’ Wehrmarcht’ kicked in our teeth in Belgium.
– When we finally won the war, what was our ‘Exit Strategy’? To pour billions ($130 billion US / 2006) of dollars in to rebuilding Europe, and have troops there to this day.
This stuff ain’t easy folks. I can respect those who opposed or supported the war from the beginning, and still hold those beliefs.
Those of you who jumped on when you thought this was ‘like going into Wisconsin’, and now want off the ride because things are rough, you are the problem.
War is never the first answer, but once you commit to it, see it through, or never start one in the first place.
Let’s not forget:
мир поговорил бы этот язык
or even..
oder es würde diese Sprache sprechen
…if the world had been in the hands of surrendering, self-serving liberal elites who in the face of evildoing, lie down and spend more on community relations and advise Stalin, Hitler or Saddam to get counselling.
I’m a Mac fanatic, and I’m no liberal lefty, so if I ever meet Steve Jobs, we may not get on so well!
MacArch:
Way to jump on “exit strategy”, and avoid the less fun issues like torture, wiretapping, gaybashing while gay, deliberately chipping away at our civil liberties and so on. I guess with so many Bush policy stinkers, you can pick your favorite steaming turd to try to justify.
Anyways, since our unprovoked attack on Iraq is JUST LIKE when we responded to being attacked by the axis powers in WW2.. uh, wait… Let’s see… Well, we attacked Iraq because they had WMD. No, wait, it was because Saddam tortures people. No – wait! It must have been something besides torture… Eh, it doesn’t matter! We can’t just cut and run! Stay the course! If we have an exit strategy, the terrorists will use it against us! Yeah, that’s it!
If I was a Republican, I would be pissed at Bush and his team for giving Republicans a bad name. All of the intelligent Republicans I know oppose Bush, since they value their country more than their president. Presidents come and go, but there is only one United States of America…
A couple of years ago I remember seeing a picture of Bush using a G4 iMac. If you read the posts on this page there seems to be an even spread of insults er, views. So this (roughly) fifty word article is just a beat up and so many of you have fallen for it. Lighten up and let’s get onto all things Mac (like bashing Microsoft).
Let’s see,
Rush Limbaugh uses a Mac and Tom Leykis uses PC’s. Go figure!
That disingenuousness I spoke of in an earlier post (asking people if they “support our troops”, a BS tact, because obviously EVERYONE supports the troops); another example of this BS repub strategyis this business of challenging people “Do you support Cut and Run”?
Well here’s a newsflash, a-holes.
I say LET’S CUT AND RUN.
1. So long as we enable the tribes (sunni, shia, etc. They think of themselves as Iraqis 2nd), they will continue to DEPEND upon us
2. THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY TRYING TO KILL US ARE RIGHT NOW PLANNING, RECRUITING, TRAINING; WITH FERVOR. POSSIBLY TO USE A NUCLEAR WEAPON TO OBLITERATE A MAJOR US CITY AND IT’S CITIZEN.
What are we doing, dicking around in IRAQ? (Actually, a study of the history of our involvement, along with Great Britain, in the middle east from, say appr. 1951 on, would “learn” any of you dipshit neocons the real truth.
ASK PAUL WOLFOWITZ. He, and Cheney, pushed this “link” of bin laden and Iraq. (BULLSHIT).
THANK GOD WE HAVE A TON, AND I mean a TON of republicans here on this board and not all leftwingers.
“Rush Limbaugh uses a Mac”
Whether if you lean left or right, I think we can agree that people that choose Macs rather accoplish something (good or bad) rather than curse at their computer.
I’m a militant moderate.
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The Nation, Huff Post, Crooks and Liars, Whiskey Bar, Informed Comment, War in Context, Hullabaloo, Wonkette, Jesus’ General.
I refresh a lot, too.
Right leaner here.
It never fails to amuse me when people try to catagorize Mac users as left/right, conservative/liberal. I’ve always thought of Mac users as “smarter”, why can’t we leave it at that and not let politics spilt us up into warring factions.
Mac users are people that just want a computer that works and allows them to be productive. Who we vote for has nothing to do with it. Stick it up your ass NYT.
Unterrified Jeffersonian Anarchist. Is that Left or Right?
I’m on the right. I don’t have a liberal bone in my body.
— and not let politics spilt us up? —
Because convicting nazis for war crimes doesn’t work that way.
— into warring factions? —
So they can just forget about waging anymore god damn war .. and particularly forget about waging war on the Constitution and on their fellow Americans.
For starters … we’re going to find out where all those farking torture prisons around the world are located and we’re going to shove ’em right down their damn neocon nazi throats.
I don’t know why anybody would think it’s all going to be roses and reconciliation when we still have Limbaugh and Drudge and Fox making like shills for the third reich.
These guys and their repulsive supporters perhaps think they’re going keep making a clarion call to some fascist-blind brotherhood while we give them big conciliatory hugs? We just repudiated that, eh? It’s over.
If the Reps wanted to impeach Clinton for lying about a questionable land deal and an Oval Office BJ, then the Dems should have more than enough reason to impeach a president that has been already proven to have…
– lied about Iraq’s involvement with terrorism and WMDs, resulting in over 3,000 US and international soldier deaths and over 100,000 civilian deaths.
– allowed the BinLaden family (close friend’s of the Bushes) to freely escape the US on the very first plane out of the US (with the flight ban still in place) after the 9-11 disaster rather than holding them for questioning. Seems much too close to the treasonous act of “offering aid and comfort to the enemy” for a President to be directly involved in, especially considering that, unlike US politics where a line can be drawn between a candidate’s family and his political position, Saudi Arabia is ruled by a family. Allowing close family members of the terrorist, ALL of which have political interests and connections to Osama, to escape and protect them from ALL interrogations, directly impeding and preventing the PRIMARY investigative path to resolve 9-11, is hugely treasonous!
– failed to put an effective counter-strike against the known terrorist leader Osama BinLaden. This being further proof of the Bushes treasonous protection of our enemy.
– billions of dollars from a no-bid contract to the Vice President’s very recent “former” employer as a result of the Iraq war (is there any worse moral violation than creating a war, knowingly sacrificing thousands of lives, in the name of profit?).
– completely ignored the world, the pleas of the entire UN, to not enter into a war with Iraq. As a result, and precisely as the UN had predicted, global terrorism exploded and thousands of civilian lives of our allies were lost.
– knowing the incredible loss of life he has already caused, both, directly in war and indirectly via terrorism, he now wants to invade Iran for similarly insane reasons with the added risk of nuclear involvement. …and still no mention about going after his friend, Osama.
– placed a close friend, who’s completely unqualified, in charge of FEMA and resulting in unnecessary delays in disaster relief, resulting in the death of thousands of citizens and billions of dollars in property damage. Even after seeing his friend’s blundering ineptness to manage in a crisis, Bush wasn’t even able to take control himself.
– edited a scientific environmental report from NASA, minimizing and hiding the severity of global warming, so as to protect his big business buddies from major financial losses.
– etc… etc… etc…
How many national and global disasters, how many lives lost and wounded, does a President have to create in the name of personal profit until a nation should remove him from power?
Here’s something that’ll blow the pundits’ minds: I lean both!
I’m conservative on fiscal and foreign policy issues (deficits, elective wars, etc.), but I’m progressive on social issues (government out of the bedroom, preserve the Bill of Rights, etc.).
There – it is possible to hold multiple ideas in one’s head at the same time!
BTW, the Republican party that went down in flames on Tuesday was not conservative in any way, shape or form. Most dyed-in-the-wool old-school conservatives I know were elated at the thrashing of Tom DeLay’s profligate, craven “Class of ’94.” Now maybe the GOP will return to its roots. Either that, or it’ll continue to slight righwards into fascism while the Democrats take up the mantle of fiscal conservatism. Of course, that’ll leave our tree-hugging friends on the far left without a party… but so be it.
I can curtsy, wanna’ see?
Centre-right here. Most of us are centre-something.
The liberal media brain washed the sheep mentality public into thinking the economy was terrible, we are losing the war, and Bush amd Republicans are terrible. Couldn’t be farther from the truth but people are stupid. If you pound out the negative news over and over sooner or later the sheep will believe it. None of it is true by the way. The economy is kicking ass, we are not remotely losing the war, and Bush and the Republicans are the best thing this country and world could have right now. There are more scandals going on in the democrat side, as usual, than the few plaster all over the media about the Republicans right before elections. I’ll say it again the majority of people are stupid followers. The democrats will screw this all up and lose everything in 2008 and beyond. Mark my words.
Simon,
You are a pscho! You need help fast.
I myself am a major republican and I of course use a mac. Who is the NYT to talk? They are probably the most leftist newspaper outthere. They are just talking out there *** as usual.
Harvey MUST be a troll.
You can’t be for real.
JIM LEHRER: Does the Iraq experience make it more likely or less likely that you would take the United States into another preemptive military action?
DUBYA: I would hope I’d never have to. I understand how hard it is to commit troops. I never wanted to commit troops. I never — when I was running — when we had the debate in 2000, I never dreamt I’d be doing that. But the enemy attacked us, Jim, and — ah — I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us.
— President Bush again conflates Iraq and the 9/11 attackers as “the enemy”, First Presidential Debate, Coral Gables, Florida, Sep. 30, 2004
Simon,
All presidents screw up one way or another. It seems the more recent ones do it more. It’s really a function of the time we live — access to media, recording devices, information exchange, et cetera — not that they screw up more. George Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, et al have all screwed up, we just don’t have the records of all their foie pas.
MDN is not a political pundant, it is a Mac site. Get off of your high horse and just enjoy your Mac and iPod. Go be political on someone else’s site.
By the way, I am a middle man myself. I will vote according to who I think will do a better job.
wow – so this is what i get for sleeping for a change – i miss a politically charged article and the comments logs are astronomical.
and no, davida, i did not drop off the planet, but did get your email – thanks.
and if anyone ever wondered – or cared, which i doubt either, for the record i am a registered republican. but i am thankful the GOP lost both house and senate. i am scared though since the dems “appear” to have no strategy nor direction, but they have 2 years to figure themselves out. and for the right leaning group – no, the dems will NOT roll back the tax breaks ushered in by the GOP – they are locked in until 2011, so you can breathe easier now.
and for the left side, no, there will be no quick pullout from iraq. we may see an actual strategy and hopefully some clear objectives, but no, we are they to say for a while. and before anyone starts sulking or cheering that rumsfeld is out and should have been kicked out long ago, you forget that rumsfeld has tendered his resignation twice before and bush did not accept it. you can’t blame rumsfeld for the mess, this one bush has to shoulder. rumsfeld is a smart man and knows politics and knew when it was time to get out – bush never let him until now.
so now we can move on, re-commense your vitriolic attacks against each other and scream corruption whenever it suits your fancy. me? i will still be sitting here, enjoying a nice glass of pinot noir with some pan-seared pork, sauteed potatoes and pineapple relish. mmm.
Always Right,
Yes, intellectual diversity. In a media world that was all moonbats at the the time, a wingnut brings diversity.
In Europe you are left-wing when somebody has socialistic democratic feelings, in the USA you are to be left if you are a democrat. Lets hope for Hillary C..
Listen .. this is the second site that I’ve been freqenting for years that’s now suddenly got people in it saying how there are other places on the web to talk about politics.
This pisses me that folks seem to think everybody should shut-the-fuck up or take it elsewhere after all these years of turning a blind eye, at best, to the fascist freaks that took over America.
I’m not going anywhere else. I’m staying right here. And I’ll say whatever I need to .. especially when MDN leads with a topic headline like the one it used for this discussion.
1. Here’s an idea:
Rather than getting caught up in some stupid label, how about doing what makes sense? Who gives a damn if its left, right, middle, top, bottom?
As in “convince me”? Isn’t that your duty as a Citizen?
And, isn’t blindly taking one side FAILING in your duty as a Citizen?
Yes, this means that extreme ideas should be moderated, ignoring some extreme situations, when considered from the perspective of common sense. And is there any other perspective worth considering?
2. When politics is about getting your party elected, instead of making the world/country a better place, there is a big problem.
Why don’t you label lovers see this?
3. Aren’t deficits EVIL? Unless something else changes, they’re just a deferred tax increase, with interest, after all – the sneakiest (and most expensive) tax increase of all. And they result in increased interest rates – a double whammey.
How can anybody seriously defend this?
And when will defenders stop defending this – at 9 trillion debt? 12 trillion? 20 trillion? 50 trillion?
Remember that the International Monetary Fund had to bail out the United Kingdom in the 1970’s because nobody would lend them money anymore, so this isn’t academic.
If this happens in the U.S. it will be much worse, given the size of the U.S. economy relative to the world. How much longer before China and Japan (the bank the U.S. uses for a lot of its debt) start saying “we’ll only loan you money if you, say, cut military spending (one of the biggest ticket items, and an easy one to cut) by 10%”? And, since the U.S. is running deficits, and needs the the money, how can the U.S. refuse?
This WILL happen at some point. Is it absolutely necessary to go right to the edge of causing this?
4. Electoral abuse is legal:
– bribing politicans (“campaign finance”) – lobbyists are now writing the laws, literally, in some cases – they paid the bribe, after all.
– plain old fraud/lying – why can’t politicans be held to the same standard as corporate leaders – no lying to the shareholders (in this case, the voters)? if you lie, you go to jail and lose your job?
– electoral fraud (changing electoral district boundaries to favour one party – gerrymandering) – why not just say the other party isn’t allowed to vote? In fairness, I’m amazed that the House changed hands to the extent it did, I was concerned that the system was too rigged. Fortunately a big chunk of registered party voters still change their minds.
– voter suppression. Banning voters directly or indirectly is grossly unfair, as is voting twice. Surely it is only fair to have lots of voting stations, well equipped, well run, and to bend over backwards to count EVERY vote, once. Why can’t felons out of prison vote, anyway? They’ve served their time, after all.
– partisan hacks running elections – aren’t their fair objective people left?
– why can’t politican appointees be charged with fraud/direlection of duty, by the courts, i.e. in an objective, non political way? One word: Katrina. Another two words: Iraq Reconstruction.
Why aren’t people freaking out over that?
Can’t all people agree that free and fair elections are important, and not currently happening?
5. Has it occured to you that partisan hacks are simply con artists playing a lot of people for fools? Who is more likely telling the truth: a shrill extremist screaming about bias in the media, or moderate media?
And that shrill political entertainment is simply a blood sport? (And, arguably, hate speech, a lot of the time)
And that there is a big chunk in the media that are simply trying to report news as best they can, using imperfect tools – humans?
And that reasonable politicans are simply trying to make the world a better place? Hint: look for people who try and reach out, listen, think, try and compromise like adults. And, no,this doesn’t mean you’re weak, but you’r thoughtful and strong. Only weak bullies refuse to compromise.
Tyk
“I’m on the right. I don’t have a liberal bone in my body.”
Careful Tyk, there are a lot of liberals who would like to change that!
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(now come on, that’s just funny)
Macca
“but I’m progressive on social issues (government out of the bedroom, preserve the Bill of Rights, etc.).”
I applaud you stance on the issues, similiar to mine, but there is nothing more “progressive” about liberalism than conservatism, as the term implies “looking toward the future”. Not to gripe, just an obsevation.
Also, and THIS outta start some sh!t, but preserving the Bill of Rights is on the conservative agenda, as in Constitutional Conservative, ie Justice Antonin Scalia, one of the greatest Supreme Court Justices ever.
“bond co. stooge”…
I know you probably meant to include them but my father’s generation along with our liberal Prime Minister MacKenzie King also helped to defeat Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.
Oh, and ‘Smith’….
“Black Republican Mac User…….I also got a high IQ.”
HaHaHaHahahahahah……you slay me.
What, that wasn’t a typo?
I love listening to political debates. Why anyone thinks one party is any better than the other is beyond me. If either party has been in power more than one election cycle, I tend to vote against the incumbents, as it is pretty clear that they all get corrupted fairly quickly.
This election, I voted all republican, because I am in a very blue state (New Jersey) and the democrats here are all a bunch of crooks. They have been in power at the state level for the past decade. By the way, everything you see happen on the Sopranos actually does go on in New Jersey
TowerTone – I was using “progressive” in the sense that, considering the past six years of regressive, oppressive government, any change in course would be progress.
By the way, I consider protecting the Constitution both conservative and crucial to our freedom. Another reason why the version of the GOP that died Tuesday is not conservative.
Wow. too many to even read!
I am a libertarian conservative and don’t understand why to think different would require “left-leaning”. Rush Limbaugh is only one example where this has been proved false.
Anyway, I just wanted put my 2¢ in.
Jeez after this election we may no longer be able to afford Macs. Small business took a big hit and we will lose our tax credits that most of us channeled toward iPods and Macs. Interest rates will rise and the economy will weaken. But we will most likely get out of Iraq 4 to 6 weeks sooner so I guess it will all be worth it in the minds of the uber-left. I don’t agree with everything “R” but at least they promote capitalism and can distinguish a social issue from socialism.
Macca
being Republican does not make you conservative. Unfortunately, being conservative means you usually have to vote Republican. I say this not against Republicans, but against Democrats.
Could you explain what has been regressive-oppressive about the Bush Administration to you, personally? Have you felt your personal freedoms affected by anything more than the medias need to grab your attention for their almighty need for the advertising dollar? Just curious.
Re: TowerTone-
“…but most of the low income people I know-and it is a whole bunch, almost all vote Democrat.”
Well…. THAT’S interesting. So happens that most of the condensending closet racists i know, and i’ve known a whole bunch, almost always vote Republican. Wonder why that is?
Solid red righty
Johnson, Jr
what is your point? I hope it is not that I am racist, because I was quoting someone else and giving my perspective, and race was NOT brought up until you mentioned it.
Or are you saying most poor are black? Wow, what a racist statement.
Now, it IS a fact, and one taken for granted, that most blacks vote Democrat, but I haven’t seen that enter the discussion.
all I KNOW is…
conservatives are morally bankrupt idiots.
liberals are emotional knee-jerk hacks.
libertarians are bomb-making hermits.
socialists are lazy work-striking losers.
communists are wacko facist lunatics.
fundamentalists are aliens.
evangelicals have small penuses.
this is why i vote venutian.
Only 2% of the workforce is on minimum wage. Of that 2% most of them are high school and college kids. The average length of time they are on minimum wage is 1 year.
Raising minimum wage is a feel-good policy based on phony economics. Hence why the Democrats are making it their pet project. The government has no business dictating what people are worth. Individuals make that determination by hard work and education.
TowerTone – the current centrist Democratic party is far more conservative than the current GOP. Weird, I know – but true.
Pay-as-you-go spending is conservative. Not getting embroiled in elective wars is conservative. Protecting the country against terrorism rather than fostering more anti-American terrorism is conservative. Conserving the environment is, well, conservative.
The old “tax-and-spend Liberal” meme just doesn’t hold water anymore, especially coming from a party that has borrowed-and-spent the country into massive deficits. Under the GOP, congressional earmarks are up 700%. Non-defense domestic spending is up a bunch, too.
As far as personally being affected by the Bush administration’s war on the Constitution? Well, no, I guess I haven’t. But things like abolishing habeas corpus, warrantless wiretapping and demolishing the wall between church and state affect my overall sensibilities as a true-blue patriotic American.
What happened is that the Republicans aligned themselves with dangerous neofascists and crackpot neochristians for purposes of siezing and holding power. That WAS wrong. And until they publicly disalign and blatantly repudiate that wrong .. the Republicans remain as imminent and frighteningly dangerous persons.
This crap about quiet reconciliation is garbage. Republicans need to clearly understand just how dangerous they are with their careless self serving alignments. And that’s not likely to happen until their perspective absorbs those circumstances.
So far .. I haven’t seen any signs that they’ve got the picture. Have you seen it yet?
Macca
Good points. some things to consider, though.
When looking at spending and debt, you can’t compare amounts, you need to compare % of GDP, which is kind of like America’s income vs bills-you make more, you spend more. I am not saying we shouldn’t curtail the spending, it is just not near as bad as the media would like to boast. (our debt relative to GDP was higher under Truman)
The “Old tax and spend liberals” never went away, they are just a smaller minority now. Nancy will prove this.
The earmarks are appalling, but they are used more now because the “good ole boy” system was changed to this.
Habeous Corpus is not abolished. Please name an American you know of where this has happened. I covered this in depth on one of the other “longest post” from MDN.
There never has been, and God forbid if there ever will be, a “wall between church and state”. Check our first amendment, not the ACLU.
“Maybe we can get back to seeing tampon commercials instead of political ones!”
I think there’s some overlap there.
/leans left on some issues, right on others.
Right all the way baby! However, I like to see mac sales growth on the left too!
Some things can bring us together no matter how far the gap is!
“Science be praised! We will kill all the table eaters. Their answer to the ultimate question is different from ours. Ours is the true answer! They chop trees down for tables when they have perfectly good bellies to eat off of!”
(Or something like that, I am going by memory)
I got tired of counting, but doing the sudo-math on the this MDN post as of right now, it leans slightly to the right, with a healthy number of libertarians and independents being counted into the tally.
I know that many of my politically conservative, non-Mac using friends see Mac users as being predominatly liberal, but I’ve always believed this to be a misconception.
I’m a liberal libertarian. I don’t think the gov’t needs to be in my life. But I do believe the gov’t has a role to protect citizens against enemies, both foreign and domestic. And I take that to mean protect us even from big business that would screw us all if given the chance as in pollution and safety. So I believe the gov’t must provide checks and balances against big business.
I believe we have the right to bear arms, just not use them whenever we want because we have a permit to carry one. I believe that smoking should be illegal in public places. I believe that marijuana should be legal as it is safer than alcohol. I’m against affirmative action, yet I understand that sometimes its still necessary because people are people and there is still discrimination. I believe in low taxes, but cut the taxes on the poor and middle class first, not the corporations or wealthy. I believe Congressmen should hold office for a maximum of 12 years and campaigns should have a maximum amount of funding. I believe we should SERIOUSLY find alternative energy and that doesn’t mean drilling for oil in Alaska and off our coasts. Eliminate the need for oil, period. And finally, I don’t believe the gov’t should have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. In fact, I don’t think the gov’t should be in the business of marriage at all. Marriage is a religious or personal celebration. I should be able to choose whomever I want to share my taxes with, my property with, my life decisions with. Why do I need a marriage license? Just another revenue stream.
Oh, TowerTone, don’t worry about it. We all understood what you meant and it’s okay. We’re entitled to our opinions and observations, right? That was yours and I had mine. But ask yourself… why did you mention BLACK? I didn’t. Check my post. I didn’t mention a color or who voted what. There are many different low income people in this country… latino, Native American, white, etc. People of all colors vote in both parties and I’ve met racists of ALL colors. Nope, I didn’t write or allude to most poor being black… you did. Hmm… Closet racism is a sneaky thing.
TowerOne – I agree that the paleo-liberals are still there but are in the minority. I hope they realize that this election was a big mandate for centrism and moderation.
As for habeas corpus, I’d say that Jose Padilla, who was held without charge for something like three years, counts as an American who hasn’t had his due process rights afforded him. The point is, that the new rule basically says that the president can designate anyone he wishes as an “enemy combatant,” who would not have the right to face his accusers or even know what crime he’s charged with. That’s the problem.
And the whole “well-they’re-terrorists-so-they-shouldn’t-have-rights” thing goes up against one of the basic tenets of western jurisprudence – the presumption of innocence. At one point Amnesty International (I know, I know) estimated that more than half of the people at Gitmo were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hell – look at that Canadian of Syrian extraction who was wrongly branded as a terrorist and was rendered back to Syria, where he was tortured and held for a year without charge!
The point is, America should be a beacon of justice in the world – spoken about in the same breath as torturers like Saddam Hussein and Idi Amin.
Funny stuff: NY Times: Do Mac users lean left?
Did I miss something?:”How about it Mac users? How did you vote yesterday?”
Was there a vote for Mac users yesterday? I checked around and I did read something about some vote by the terrorist axis of AENUS (Australia, England n United States) but nothing about a vote for Mac users. I think important news like that would have reached a Mac user like me.
Maybe Apple should review their voting notification when Mac users are called to vote.
I sure hope they don’t lean left, last time I looked, those that truly fly use both wings.
Whoops. I mean “NOT spoken about in the same breath…”
And I think the point is, Mac users aren’t necessarily right or left, politically – they’re just smart.
I didn’t read all the comments above.
To tell you the truth I’m a little afraid to.
But you’ve got to be a very special kinda dumb to still support this administration, whatever your leaning. Too much power, too much money, too much corruption.
Way to clean house, America.
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-c
MW: ‘started’ (something I couldn’t finish)
I love it how the Reps have been saying “Miss Palosi” with an audible sneer. And above where someone said “Go get him, girls!” in regard to their ability to catch Bin Laden.
And you say you’re NOT the sexist bigots those nasty liberal make you out to be?
No… I see a lot of Rush Limbaughs up there. And if you like that sort of man, then you must be a real big hit at parties.
Here’s a message from women:
NONE of us want to fuçk Rush Limbaugh. Or you.
-c
MW: ‘several’ (oxys an hour make Rush a happy boy)
“…you’ve got to be a very special kinda dumb to still support this administration, whatever your leaning.”
well put, ChirssyOne.
MW: “choice”. ‘Nuff said.
whoa, Chrissy… you’re on a roll!!
Thanks! Now I’m just waiting for more nasty messages from Compassionate Conservatives on my MySpace. ;P
You guys rule.
Oh wait! Not any more.
-c
MW: ‘hand’ (me another oxy, Rush, I’m gambling with Bill Bennet at Foley’s Gay Casino)
ok, but …
It’s the neocons and their sympathizers that are going to have to be doing all the reconciling, imho. Anybody thinks that America is going to continue meet those dangerous people even as little as half-way is in for some even bigger suprises than they got in the elections.
These folks are either going to get their rhetoric free of neocon fascist apologisms or they can sit back and watch the leadership of that dishonest cabal of political thugs rot in prison while they sweat it if they’re not perhaps the next to go. Then we’ll see if they still keep shooting off their mouths with their self serving distortionist agenda.
I saw what happened after Vietnam, eh? A few war crimes trials and those careless warmongers start shutting up right quick like. Yes indeed.
@ Towertone
You wrote: “You also failed to mention the whole controversy is not over stem cell research but instead over cloning.”
You also fail to see how wrong and reprehensible it is to make fun and humiliate someone for having a terribly debilitating disease like Parkinson’s or MS. Would it be okay in your books to make fun of Ronald Reagan for having Alzheimers, slowly fading into a state of dementia? No, you wouldn’t laugh, because THAT’S something you actually would care about.
It’s obvious to me Rush doesn’t have a good point and his only method of discourse is under the belt dd hominem attacks at the level of a 5 year old (and an immature 5 year old at that).
This is because YOU ARE A SOCIOPATH WITH NO SOCIAL AWARENESS OR RESPECT.
But, I’m wasting my breath, because you simply can’t understand that since you are what you are. A fish in water.
Just wait. Someday you’ll get a debilitating disease, afflicted with pain, unable to take care of yourself, and then you’ll say to yourself, “Geez, this sucks! Maybe it’s not so funny after all!” And all the neocons will be ready to let you sink deeper into a terrible state because it’s the “moral” thing to do.
Quick, better hurry up! You’re probably what, in your 60s? Only a few years left to join the army and kill some Iraqis!!! Maybe you’ll even get to kill some Koreans!!!
If Microsoft reads the responses to this piece in the NYT it will shit itself…
The Tipping Point is almost here guys…
MS is DOOMED..
The comments here say two things: right wingers think reality is “liberal,” and think their fantasy world is real.
“Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.”
There may not be a whole hell of a lot of difference between us canucks and our neighbors to the south…except when it comes to politics. You folks seem to really divided by it…to the point of rage at times. Here in Canada our political parties are pretty much interchangable and equally despicable to every citizen.
I voted left. And I’ll do it again until this damn war ends.
Love the new shuffle.
Mo,
Very interesting insight. I think you may have us yanks slightly misinterpreted though. Whatever our “leaning” we all believe all of our government reps are despicable.
definitely leaning to the right here…
i think here are more rightie mac users than ppl think. maybe it’s just me but the majority of my friends are conservative.
To the right , to the right , to the right right right!
3 Ibooks
1 MacBook
2 IPods
How many more states does it take to make it a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage?
Heh heh heh
MW: “Bill” as in Clinton:
Longest economic expansion in American history
More than 22 million new jobs
Highest homeownership in American history
Lowest unemployment in 30 years
Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years
100,000 more police for our streets
Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union
Protected millions of acres of American land
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families own stock than ever before
Most diverse cabinet in American history
“If they focus on Clinton’s accomplishments, it’ll have to be a 10-year course.” [James Carville]
And throughout it all, he had to endure a R-sponsored witchhunt and a press that printed every negative rumor without bothering to check facts. Strangely enough, the flabbergasted right-wingers couldn’t understand why his popularity kept on increasing. In the end they pinned him with a sexual pecadillo that was nobody’s business.
Oh, six Macs, silver-spooned atheist, fiscal conservative, social libertarian.
IvoryTowerTone says [regarding president Bush quotes]: “Do you ever, just for shits and giggles, try to understand what he is saying, instead of how he says it? “
I posit this quote for IvoryTower to explain to me what it is that President Bush is really saying:
“That’s George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing about him is that I read three—three or four books about him last year. Isn’t that interesting?”
— May 5, 2006
Towertone comes back with this childlike response: G-Spank Get your sister to do your homework
That’s all you got?
This is what is called GETTING OWNED
TowerTone, you have an encyclopedic mind that has no logic board. All you do is spew a bunch of information to blind yourself from what is two inches from your face. That’s what extremists do, I suppose.
Hey Toby,
Get ready, there are going to be a lot more wars because of the middle east and muslims coming your way. No matter who is in charge. The fanatics will keep attacking us with bigger and stronger weapons. At least Bush has the smarts to go after them. Iran and Siria need to be taken out too. N. Korea next. The rest of the world sits back and does nothing letting these psychos get stronger. Just wait Toby and friends. Unfortunately you will see.
ChrissyOne=Bull Dike Lesbian
To Road PUKE,
Go f*ck yourself you terrorist!
Always Wrong at it again. You are pathetic. You will see how pathetic the democrats turn out to be. Just watch. Harry you hit it right on the nose friend. You are not troll.
davida you are a dirt ball.
Ned Lamont’s grand father was a card carrying communist. Confirmed.
I have to agree with Harry. What a shame. All of the liberal media Bush bashing finally took it’s toll on the Republicans. God help us with the tax you to death-terrorist appeasing Democrats in charge. Always Right is the perennial troller.
GOP = Gay Old Party
Just ask Foley.
Funny how the rednecks in here are acusing Dems of being soft on terror, when the Bush administration has made terror worse through the war on Iraq – according to the FBI and CIA. (http://dni.gov/press_releases/Declassified_NIE_Key_Judgments.pdf)
Chrissy One writes –
“I love it how the Reps have been saying “Miss Palosi” with an audible sneer. And above where someone said “Go get him, girls!” in regard to their ability to catch Bin Laden.
And you say you’re NOT the sexist bigots those nasty liberal make you out to be?
No… I see a lot of Rush Limbaughs up there. And if you like that sort of man, then you must be a real big hit at parties.
Here’s a message from women:
NONE of us want to fuçk Rush Limbaugh. Or you.
-c
MW: ‘several’ (oxys an hour make Rush a happy boy)”
Hey Chrissy – just to let you know…..
Women are NOT equal to men, in any way. You aren’t as smart, you aren’t as qualified, and you are ruled by your effing emotions. Women should NEVER be allowed into a position of power. You have no testosterone – therefore no “balls”. Now STFU and go make me dinner.
And BTW – we don’t want to f*ck you either you overweight pig with saddle bags and not tits. Go start a support group.
To “Roder”
“ChrissyOne=Bull Dike Lesbian”
No, transsexual lipstick lesbian. And it’s Dyke, not Dike, you idiot.
Get it right. =)
And thank you again for reminding me why I’m not into guys.
-c
Mr Happy
GOP = Gay Old Party
Just ask Foley.
Or ask Barny Frank. Barney condones faggot prostitution rings run out of his own home.
CMC: “You have no testosterone – therefore no “balls”. Now STFU and go make me dinner.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
Actually, I still do. But no worries, I’m getting that shit removed.
And thank YOU, for making me cherish my lesbianism even more.
=)
-c
MW: ‘response’ (in the form of low grunts)
Vice President Cheney’s daughter is a lesbian. She was head of his re-election campaign in 2004. She is why Cheney is not personally a supporter of banning gay marriage. Nothing like a little personal perspective to help you get a clue, right?
ChrissyOne – damn, you are a seriously fucked up individual.
You are a tranny going to become a woman – so you can be a lesbian? WTF? Why chop of the twig and berrys if you are just going to be boning your future labia licker with a strap-on? What a fucking idiot.
Jesus – you HAVE to live in SanFran
You libs will be handing everything right back to the Republicans in 2 years. Enjoy your moment in the sun while it lasts. Good luck, you’ll need it.
Mr. Johnson
When you brought up race, I asked you if you meant black for clarification, and then expanded on that IF you did, and if not, no harm. Now ask yourself, why was race brought up?Hmmm.
macca
I agree with you in spirit, but I can’t honestly say that I am convinced our leaders have gone to the point of 1984. And I’m sure many will argue the gate is open. Well, that gate will be shut when the law sunsets, as these type have before. I would also add that Mac users are AWARE as well as smart. Good post.
ChirssyOne
I must be an extra very special kinda dumb. In your world, they probably don’t make a bus short enough for people like me. (oh shit! I just pissed Frank off with more of my bigotry)
G-Spank
I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have told you to get your sister to do your homework because she probably IS your homework, and her name is Frank. Nice try.
“You are a tranny going to become a woman – so you can be a lesbian? WTF? Why chop of the twig and berrys if you are just going to be boning your future labia licker with a strap-on? What a fucking idiot.”
Yes, much worse than someone who insults strangers on the internet.
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-c
MW: ‘almost’ (as fun as Herman Goering)
You just keep on dodging the question you can’t answer, IvoryTowerTone. What a pussy.
OOHHH G=Spank
you are what you eat, Frank
I just can’t stop looking at this brilliant piece of literature, CMC..
“Women are NOT equal to men, in any way. You aren’t as smart, you aren’t as qualified, and you are ruled by your effing emotions. Women should NEVER be allowed into a position of power. You have no testosterone – therefore no “balls”. Now STFU and go make me dinner.”
I mean, how can I stop laughing?
Are you 12?
Have you beaten up any blacks or gays today?
Sniff any bicycle seats on your way to work at 7-11?
(sorry, that was an insult to 7-11 employees everywhere)
tee hee…
The Republicans must be *very* proud of people like you.
-c
Am I the only old fucker in here? Doesn’t anybody besides me remember Vietnam and its aftermath.
There sure as heck will be a lot more Arabs coming our way, but they won’t be terrorists and they won’t be waging war as you predict. Rather, they are going to be upstanding American immigrant workers and businesmen and they are going to be our neighbors. Bigtime. Arabic food and music are great, by the way. You’ll surely like them both.
Hey Andy
I remember TOO much, including Congress zeroing out aid to South Vietnam after they thought “the problem was solved”
Sound familiar?
Bush’s jackbooted thug John Bolton will NOT be confirmed as ambassador to the United Nations.
Taking ’em down one nazi at a time. Yes, yes, yes.
Maybe Bush should have played up the terror card.
Your all gonna die if democrats are in control, the terrorists will be at your doorstep.
whadda muck up
Democrats *are* terrorists, haven’t you heard?
I mean “Barak Obama”… how obvious is that?
Sounds terroristy. Listen to my truthiness.
-c
MW; ‘give’ (peas a chance)
Sure thang Mr/Mrs Chrissy/Chirssy
I prefer Purple Hulls, with buttermilk cornbread, fried potatoes, and some squash and or eggplant, followed by home made banana ice cream and a nap.
Labor Day will never be the same now that my grandmother has passed.
CMC,
Have you ever heard of Margaret Thatcher?
She probably has more balls AND more testosterone than you…
ChrissyOne,
I’m a lesbian too, but I’m keeping my twigs and berry’s.
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TowerTone,
What are Purple Hulls?
TowerTone – sry about the typos. If we had a real login system it would not happen (hint hint)
But other than that, I have no clue what you’re talking about.
And it’s ‘Miss’
Jerry T – good for you. the world needs more male lesbians.
-c
MW: ‘days’ (and confuse)
In all candor, I DO NOT think that Mac users lean left.
I think one’s political leanings are irrelevant. (as far as OS’s).
But really, WHERE IS Osama.
I thought it was the BUSH family that had close ties to the Bin Laden family.
What’s all this crap about Democrat-loving terrorists?
As I stated before, they are planning RIGHT NOW.
WHAT IS OUR OBJECTIVE/MISSION IN IRAQ?
And, if Bush is so tough, why no action on N. Korea & Iran, who BOTHE taunt us?
Now, hold on there Jerry T
I thought you said you were from Texas.
Purple Hulls are only the next best thing to Jesus returning. They are peas whose pod turns purple when ripe, and so do your fingers when you shell ’em.
Now get on down to the Farmers Market by the tracks close to that shiney glass Hyatt bildin in Big D and get you a mess.
OK, now y’all know how I feel when some y’all speak that Germin.
Miss-You
I hope you don’t take offense, but I have to make a post that I can’t resist but at the same time-try to laugh.
“Where’d everybody go?”
TT
I’m conservative on defense, and liberal on social issues, most of them anyway.
I’m thankful for the regular posters on this forum who have had the courage to use their regular handles when discussing their political beliefs. It’s apears that many are inventing new and interesting handles because they don’t want to have any repurcussions from their insult laden diatribes.
My hat is off to Towertone, G-Spank, ChrissyOne, and AlwaysRight and other regulars for speaking your mind and putting your handle out there.
It’s people like Towertone that are ruining America.
What a good country gone to waste by a spoiling elitist group of rich white men.
You’ve never been outside your country; you don’t know what’s there. There are billions of poor people because they’re making YOU rich. And what do you do for them? You advise them they should be grateful.
I tell you, Americans need to get one thing straight: the rest of the world shouldn’t be grateful to you, YOU should be grateful to them! It’s only because of their slavery that you are enjoying the comfy lifestyle you have.
I’d tell you to grow a social conscience, but that’d be like asking a plant to grow in concrete.
But I shouldn’t make too much fun of Towertone and his ilk; after all they’re disabled. Morally disabled.
And Towertone, the reason why you’re a BIGOT
is because you think some things such as
pain and suffering and oppression
ARE FUNNY.
And that’s because YOU’RE NOT LIVING IT.
BIGOT
BIGOT
BIGOT
The root of fascism and communism is BIGOTRY. And that’s YOU – bigotry incarnate.
But you’re stupid and you have no self-awareness. Therefore, no responsibility.
And another thing:
The USA IS MICROSOFT.
Bill Gates is the most powerful man in the world.
Down will fall Microsoft and America with it.
All you right-leaning mac users are oxymorons (as well as plain old morons too).
@ Mr. Tone
When you brought up race, I asked you if you meant black for clarification, and then expanded on that IF you did, and if not, no harm. Now ask yourself, why was race brought up?Hmmm.
Because, in your post that started this conversation, you sounded like a condensending racist.
“…but most of the low income people I know-and it is a whole bunch, almost all (add blanket statement here).”
“…are criminals”? “…chew tobacco”? “…eat SPAM”? Any time someone starts a sentence like that it makes me wonder… Hmmm.
Reminds me a lot of Archie Bunker.
THAT’S what I’ve been trying say all along.
But Towertone won’t change. He doesn’t think he needs to. No one can convince him of that. It’s up to him to change himself, and he’s pretty self-satisfied. Every post he makes reeks of self-satisfaction.
There is a correlation between self-confidence and racism / bigotry. A balanced self-confidence is usually correlated with holding fewer racist beliefs and attitudes. On the other hand, extremely poor and extremely HIGH self-confidence leads to more racist beliefs and attitudes.
Towertone is obviously of the latter sort; someone with way too much self-confidence. Typical bragging American, ready to shoot their mouth off because whatever the hell comes out of it just gotta be true.
Frank,
I don’t remember TowerTone ever saying he was rich.
And I for one am grateful for the slavery that made us great. I also think that the former slaves are pretty grateful to not live in Africa. Well if they would admit it anyway. Who wants to live in abject poverty with terrible tribal and ethnic conflict?
Now don’t misunderstand that I am saying that slavery is good. I’m saying that ancestors of former slaves in America have been Europeanized and wouldn’t want to live in African like conditions.
And I’m talking about a modern Africa with post colonization, but still European style governments and infrastructure. We can only guess what Africa would be in terms of advancement had Whites never visited. We do know however, that in regions of very little white presence they still live in mud huts and hunt in tribal clans just to stay alive.
Now for all of these modern day slaves of big business you refer to. Blame that on their own governments who are too greedy and corrupt to protect the rights of their own citizenry. Often these abused laborers are members of another tribe or ethnic group than the leadership, so much for the elitist groups of white men theory.
So those billions of poor should rise up and throw off the shackles of their own governments and learn to not be so racist themselves. There is just as much ethnic cleansing going on between black tribes as there is whites against others.
You might want to take a look at South Africa as well. That was a shining example of modernity and economic growth rivaling any European nation and America per capita. Until the end of White leadership that is. Now it is a poor, corrupt back hole just like most other black governed African nations. Is it racism to point out that S. Africa is vastly worse off economically and educationally since the end of Apartheid? If so why? Those are facts.
Finally, I don’t know where you are from and I don’t care. But if you live in a modern free society outside of the U.S., you probably owe us a big thank you for that.
The UN just voted 184 to 4 to again censure the USA for it’s continued embargo of Cuba. Now, how many of you conservatives in here find themselves in agreement with that overwhelming reflection of world opinion? C’mon. Be honest. You ready to join the human race yet?
I’m betting that you aren’t. Even for something as simple as that. Go ahead. Prove me wrong. I’d just love to hear it.
Change to metric. How backward cn you get!?
Well, Jerry …
Frankly .. I hope you go to prison with the rest of the Nazis. Your kind piss me off so bad I feel like puking. You better hope we never meet in person, you goddamn racist asshole.
OK GWM
Check here
http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/funfacts/embargo.htm
and explain to me, a simplton, why it is that in the 46 years of trade embargo with Cuber, twenty of them were under Democrat administrations, and many of those years they had control of both houses of Congress.
Even Carter didn’t normalize, although he lessened restrictions.
And what did Cuba do to show some goodwill? C’mon, goddammit, they did the same thing every Communist, Socialist, Totalitarian, and Facist country does when we try to negotiate, they turn around and screw US and then blame US through the media and the U.N.
Then they open their prisons and send them to Florida
Cuba was also the main funnel to the Sandinista from Russia to push Communism onto the mainland.
As far as right now, I could care less what Cuba does or what Washington gives them. Give them all work visa’s, school deferments, whatever, it doesn’t matter, because whatever we do for them will be used against us.
I never specified a party TowerTone. I specified “conservative”.
Yeah, I know that’s skirting the issue. But I’m of the firm belief that conservatives have sold their souls and I just wanted to offer a simple example of how out of touch they are with the world .. regardless that the so called liberals aren’t really all that much better themselves.
But yeah, you’re right. And it’s definitely an ‘American’ problem and severe deficiency that spreads across all of society.
gwm,
Thankfully I live in a free society where someone can be a Nazi, Communist, conservative or liberal and express what beliefs and ideals they choose without fear of going to prison.
You apparently are a liberal worldly type that believes in free speech so long as everyone agrees with you. You think people with opposing views should be locked away. You realize that’s what the Nazis did, right? They locked up those that didn’t agree.
Don’t forget you did ask the smug little question in the first place. If you don’t want an answer then don’t ask.
I also liked your little threat too. That sure is open minded of you. But if you do want to meet let me know. I told you where I live, but I do travel a lot, so I may be in your area and I am always up for a get to know you.
Say Jerry,
I’ve posted my locale in here a dozen times or more. Do your homework.
You can holler all you want about American freedom of speech, but where I am they toss Nazis out on their ears just for talking like Nazis. I can’t help it if they don’t do that where you are. Furthermore, this is an internationally attended forum where I can call you on your revolting racist remarks as much as I please and with a little luck, I might not end up being the only one.
TowerTone-
After some consideration on the subject of our discussion I wish to correct myself. No, this is not an attempt to further insult you but rather a genuine correction on my part. You may still find it insulting but it is a correction I feel is necessary.
Upon reflection, I wish to amend one thing I said earlier. You are probably NOT a racist. But I do contend that you are a condescending bigot.
Now this may not sound like much of an improvement, but it is an attempt at clarifying what I honestly believe was not an accurate assessment before.
No, this is not sarcasm nor meant to be a joke. This was meant to be a genuine correction, albeit not a very flattering one. That being said, the original comment still had a slightly racist tone.
All previous comments and opinions, with the exception of this correction, remain the same.
Raymond J. Johnson, Jr.
MW: “period”
Good night.
Mr Johnson
I will give you the benefit of the doubt, for the moment, to see what you mean.
The area of Texas I am from has a high percent of low income people, including me for awhile, and it is heavily Democrat.
I know many people through years of living there, and very few of the poorer people that I personally know vote Republican. These are the people I am refering to. They are my friends, my family, my classmates, my co-workers, my kids friends parents, my relatives friends, and my relatives friends kids co-workers parents.
Now explain to me how that is racist, and if so, what is your definition of racism? Mine is prejugding people that you do NOT know.
To me, this is an example of prejudice
“Any time someone starts a sentence like that it makes me wonder… Hmmm.
Reminds me a lot of Archie Bunker.”
All you know of me is that I am a conservative and usually vote Republican. That’s right, I said usually. I reply to someone about low income people voting Democrat, because I know “a whole bunch” that do. Here is that post, where I am replying to Mr. Jones about another person’s post
Mr Jones
(“Uneducated, low income (or no income) people tend to vote for Democrats”
I don’t think he meant ONLY these people vote Democrat, or that all Democrats are poor and stupid, at least I don’t think so.I voted Republican even when I was poor. but most of the low income people I know-and it is a whole bunch,almost all vote Democrat. So I can only speek from experience, not polls or stats.)
And what do you come up with?
(Re: TowerTone-
“…but most of the low income people I know-and it is a whole bunch, almost all vote Democrat.”
Well…. THAT’S interesting. So happens that most of the condensending closet racists i know, and i’ve known a whole bunch, almost always vote Republican. Wonder why that is?)
And my reply-(Johnson, Jr
what is your point? I hope it is not that I am racist, because I was quoting someone else and giving my perspective, and race was NOT brought up until you mentioned it.
Or are you saying most poor are black? Wow, what a racist statement.
Now, it IS a fact, and one taken for granted, that most blacks vote Democrat, but I haven’t seen that enter the discussion.)
I asked you for clarification, because YOU were bringing race in.
And then your smug reply (Oh, TowerTone, don’t worry about it. We all understood what you meant and it’s okay. We’re entitled to our opinions and observations, right? That was yours and I had mine. But ask yourself… why did you mention BLACK? I didn’t. Check my post. I didn’t mention a color or who voted what. There are many different low income people in this country… latino, Native American, white, etc. People of all colors vote in both parties and I’ve met racists of ALL colors. Nope, I didn’t write or allude to most poor being black… you did. Hmm… Closet racism is a sneaky thing.)
There is no “allusion” to blacks being poor. I asked if that is what YOU meant
So I try to be as smug-(Mr. Johnson
When you brought up race, I asked you if you meant black for clarification, and then expanded on that IF you did, and if not, no harm. Now ask yourself, why was race brought up?Hmmm.)
and that brings us back to you (@ Mr. Tone
When you brought up race, I asked you if you meant black for clarification, and then expanded on that IF you did, and if not, no harm. Now ask yourself, why was race brought up?Hmmm.
Because, in your post that started this conversation, you sounded like a condensending racist. )
So I ask you, who is condescending? Do you filter everything through racism? If so, I feel sorry for your pathetic outlook on life.
get some perspective.
Look here http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/9/23/14298/0065
And here http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/politics/15576649.htm
And here http://blog.aflcio.org/2006/08/09/voter-fraud-not-the-problem-opponents-of-low-income-voters-are/
JJ jr
after reading all those post over, and then seeing your last one written while I was writing mine, it appears to me that the cause of your prejudice and the need you feel to project racism into a conversation not dealing with it comes from racism you have endured, which is a shame, but not my fault, nor do I condone it (despite Franks’ wet dream that I do)
So don’t take it out on others just to make yourself feel whole.
If this is a completely wrong assesment of your lack of judgement, and you have this attitude while not suffering from bigotry aimed at you, then you are just an asshole.
“LOL! Man, this is going to be fun to watch for two years! The Republicans are going to end up with a fscking super majority plus the presidency in 2008.”
Yes, it will be fun, now that you mention it. But not fun for Republicans. There still continues fallout from the Jack Abramoff investigations. How many more Republicans will fall. The Foley investigation will show just what the Republican leadership knew and when about this man’s fetish. The second part of the investigations into the 9/11 attacks that was to have been released before the 2004 presidential elections will finally be released. The Scooter Libby trail that I believe is set to begin next year will show just how high up the orders came to release the name of a CIA spy to the public.
Oh yea, then there will be the new investigations into the many aspects of the Iraq war, the warrant-less wiretaps to name a couple. In case you haven’t figure it out yet, Bush removed Rummy because the Iraq war caused the Republicans both houses in the mid-term elections. If the war in Iraq is still raging by the time of the presidential elections, the Republicans will have zero chance of winning the White house in ’08. So, expect Bush to reverse his comment “as long as I’m the President we will not leave Iraq” and begin an end to the war.
gwm,
I don’t mind you calling me or anyone else out on ideas that you disagree with or find offensive. That’s what freedom and debate are about, and that’s what I support.
You on the other had said people that have certain beliefs should be in prison, that’s a very different story. In fact that is the very Nazi ideology you profess to hate. But that is par for the course; you are just one of a multitude of people that exercise Nazism in your anti-Nazism.
I’m a Nazi and would fight any authority that tried to remove you, or your right to express your disgust for me. You are a liberal and advocate prison for the expression of ideas. What a topsy-turvy world we live in…
You’ve slung a mighty heap of lies in your representations of my comments and you know it, dipshit. I’m not even going to bother pointing them out. I stand on my original statements.
And you’re still a revolting racist turd on top of it all, Jerry. Either that or you’re just blowing it out your ass to fill some time. Either way, your initial remarks were disgusting.
gwm,
BTW, I’m a headhunter, not a post hunter; you couldn’t post your locale just one more time?
I do get to Stamford Bridge and White Hart Lane occasionally, maybe that’s near you.
88
gwm,
Mighty heap of lies?
I make one premise and one premise only; you said that I should be in prison because of my ideas. That is what you said.
I say no one should be in prison for any idea, no matter how offensive, obviously as long as they don’t act on said ideas.
Where is the “heap” of lies in that premise that you refer? Or did it not feel so good having your liberal ideology shone for what it really is?
I agree with Raymond J. Johnson, Jr..
Maybe if Towertone would reflect for a while on what he writes, he’d notice, yeah, it is condescending, it is bigoted, etc. etc..
I’m not sure it’s that he doesn’t care. I’m guessing he just doesn’t get it.
And he won’t get it because from his position he can’t perceive it. Probably because he’s too rich, lived too comfortable a life, and the notion of the less fortunate is some sort of abstract lesser being.
People try to explain that what he writes is bigoted, and he shrugs it off in denial, saying others are “projecting” it on him. How can one have an impact on such a person? You just can’t.
Only when Towertone experiences the life of his “lesser beings” will he come to understand.
And regarding Jerry T – I don’t even read it. Unlike Towertone, Jerry T is just a lost cause, waste of time.
Kind of makes you wish both of them would just move to Windows. That’s where they belong.
And something else you just don’t get, Towertone.
“Or are you saying most poor are black? Wow, what a racist statement.”
What a stupid statement. This proves you have NO IDEA about racism or what a racist statement is. It’s really deplorable that you would even write such a thing sarcastically, trivialising the effects of racism on our society. But oh, I forgot, you’re a SOCIOPATH.
It’s not racist to say many black people are poor. If you look at the studies that breakdown income according to race, you will see white people way up there with very few black people. That’s a statement of fact rooted in empirical study, not an opinion based on one’s beliefs an attitudes. And this breakdown that shows African Americans living in much more poverty compared to “whites” – we call it an unequal distribution of wealth. If racism did not exist, race and wealth would be evenly distributed from low income to high income. There’s be as many whites and blacks distributed evenly across the whole range of income. But there’s not, and that’s the problem. African Americans are more heavily distributed at the bottom of the income range, white whites are much more heavily distributed at the top of the income range. This is obviously not right and not fair.
What are the causes of this disparity in wealth? Oh, maybe hundreds of years of slavery, oppression, intolerance, denying education to African Americans, and so and so on (the list is quite long).
Now, if you were to meet an African American and automatically assume that he or she is poor, that would be racist. If you were to ascribe “poorness” as an inherent quality of African Americans, yes, that is racist. Or if you were to say poverty is an effect of being black, then YES, that is racist.
Racism is all about your beliefs and attitudes, and how you judge others.
You mistake “factual” statements, like African American population suffer higher levels of poverty, with racist statements. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW BIGOTED YOU ARE BECAUSE YOU JUST DON’T GET IT. There are generalisations based on study and methodologically sound date; and then there are blanket generalisations that originate in stereotypes, ignorance and cognitive errors.
Educate yourself. Really.
Thanks, Frank
You are projecting your values, and what you believe I think, on me, and you are far from fight. I have probably been poorer than you can possibly imagine. Have you ever had to work a garden to have food? Literally hunt or fish for supper? Work two menial jobs during the week and another on the weekend? I have, and I don’t complain, but don’t you sit there smug and tell the world what kind of person I am when you have no idea, just a mental picture of the type of person that disgust you and you have decided I fit that mold.
Go fetch the “bigoted” quotes I have made, and at the same time I will get the constructive ones you have posted regarding Apple, politics, society, economics, or any other post you have made with a positive attitude.
Ready? Go!
Done! Couldn’t find any on you, and you will not find any racist remarks I made, just jokes, facts, and opinions in a good natured-until attacked-attitude.
Why is this? I will tell you why, Frank, because you are either a loser, which is a shame, OR you THINK you are a loser, which is a bigger shame.
You troll my post looking for anything you can construe in a negative manner no matter what the context so that you can feel better about yourself for taking on somebody that in real life scares you, and that is a person with confidence in his beliefs, because YOU are not like that. You are small and weak, scared to admit to yourself that the world is too hard for you to be accepted, which it is not. I don’t claim to be always right, Frank, but I always speak my mind looking for other ideas, whereas you only condemn ideas because you have none of your own.
Let me hear something positive from you, and if you can, lets see those statement I have made. You now have a purpose in life.
Frank
from your post
“Or are you saying most poor are black? Wow, what a racist statement.”
What a stupid statement. This proves you have NO IDEA about racism or what a racist statement is. It’s really deplorable that you would even write such a thing sarcastically, trivialising the effects of racism on our society. But oh, I forgot, you’re a SOCIOPATH.
It’s not racist to say many black people are poor. If you look at the studies that breakdown income according to race, you will see white people way up there with very few black people.”
read that question I wrote again Frank. I asked if he was saying most POOR people are BLACK which is racist, because MOST POOR PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE WHITE YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just realized you cannot read English and comprehend what the author is saying, now get off my ASS because I am NOT A CHIPINDALE DANCER.
Now go take some reading comprehension classes. This is a typical example where you cannot see my point because YOU HAVE ALREADY MADE YOUR MIND UP YOUR PREJUDICE PRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there, I’m all better now. Time for work…
MW:truth, as in “Frank can’t see the truth for the hate in his blindness”
saw bush on tv today
why does he look so scared?
BTW – if we knew it was going to be this much trouble we would have picked our own cotton.
My point exactly, CMC
When people like Frank and Johnson throw “racist” around at any conversation they deem not “P-C” enough for them, it denegrates the true meaning, and it also perpetuates its effects.
I am not niave enough to imply they are the biggest racist, but in their haste to point it out in conversations that are not about racism, they show their true colors (oh God! was THAT racist?) and that racism actually drives their agenda, much as it does Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
Slavery isn’t gone, it’s just been outsourced.
@ CMC:
If you think picking cotton as forced labour is anything like having people criticise you to make a positive change in society, then you’re out of touch with reality. WAY out of touch. How dare you even complain and whine that people seeking to alleviate the suffering of others is “trouble”, like a ingrown toenail, or a line up at the bank. What a Zune you are.
Maybe if you’re a spoiled rich white American without a clue about the rest of the world.
Also, it is generally accepted that even using the word “Nigger” is racist. Esp. coming from a spoiled white man.
@ Towertone:
You know, from all your bigoted posts you certainly haven’t earned the right to call other people out on their racism. What a joke. It shows a lack of decency to hold up the “race card” if it suits your purposes and then attack people for confronting you about your pure bigotry.
And if you DON’T GET that the majority of black people are afflicted by socially constructed poverty, they YOU ARE THE FUCKING IDIOT.
Instead you wallow about the majority of poor people being white. I mean, jeez, I guess all those blacks don’t know how much the white man suffers while they get a free ride, eh?
Frank
Talking to you is pointless.
I have lived around blacks all my life. And Mexicans, and Native Americans.We are a big mix here in the Ark-La-Tex.
You have no facts to back up you assertions.
You have no right accusing me of racism when you can’t even read.
You are a troll without a clue.
You are a liar, mainly to yourself.
You are lazy in your research.
You whine like a little girl-constantly.
You are scared to read what my words are saying, so you make shit up.
Does your teacher even know you are on the internet right now? Isn’t it about nap time?
I am tired of our discussions. You will not read what I write, so there is no point acknowledging you.(MW) EVER!
Towertone wrote:
“When people like Frank and Johnson throw “racist” around at any conversation they deem not “P-C” enough for them, it denegrates the true meaning, and it also perpetuates its effects.”
My god, I don’t know where to begin with this.
The word RACIST is used WHEN THE THINGS YOU POST ARE OBVIOUSLY RACIST AND BIGOTED!!!
You assume there’s no valid cause behind it. BUT THERE IS. It just doesn’t affect you so you don’t perceive it no even truly care about it. You benefit from it, so you don’t worry about it. Let me tell you, on the other side of the fence, there are people who are worrying about it every day and that is their LIFE.
If you were talking about a Zune, then I wouldn’t think to call you out on your racism and bigotry. But make a racist/bigoted statement, expect people to call you on it. Just because you don’t perceive it as racist/bigoted doesn’t mean people shouldn’t shut up an accept it. It simply means you’re UNAWARE.
How dare you even lecture this group about what perpetuates the effects of racism???!!! What the hell do you know??? You have people WORKING FOR YOU. What the F$$$$ experience do YOU have with social injustice that makes you ready to call others out on it.
You wanna know what perpetuates the effects of racism? Labelling critics of racism as PC. As if seeking out equality and respect for all people is some “oppression rooted in politeness” to you.
You know what else perpetuates racism? Claiming people who try to stop racist and bigoted behaviour as HAVING AN AGENDA. Yeah, I guess there’s an “agenda” to make the world a better place. But non-sociopathic people don’t consider it a conspiracy, they consider it the socially responsible thing to do. Would you claim I have an agenda if you go around punching people in the face and each time you do I tell you to stop???
You might counter “oh, the things I say aren’t hurtful, like punching someone in the face. I would never do that.” The problem is the things you post ARE JUST DAMAGING. The thing is, YOU’RE BLIND TO THE DAMAGES. I’m trying to open your eyes here, and obviously it’s not working.
So, keep on throwing out those punches. Each time you do, I’ll tell you to stop and that you’re hurting others. You won’t listen because you’ll say it’s some form of oppression against you, that I’m “PC” and that I have some sort of agenda. Round and round the circle goes. Except the circle is treating you fairly well, while others get the shaft. So, in the end, what’s the motivation for you to change? None, since your conscience doesn’t bother you. But, like I said, maybe I shouldn’t be so hard on you since you’re obviously, you know, morally impaired.
Oh, and one more thing….
saying-“the majority of black people are afflicted by socially constructed poverty”
is the same as saying blacks are too stupid to get ahead-you goddam racist liberal builder-of-the-socially-constructed-poverty idiot.
You can thank another Johnson, and Texan, for that-LBJ
still no quotes of mine
Towetone so artfully wrote:
“saying-‘the majority of black people are afflicted by socially constructed poverty’ is the same as saying blacks are too stupid to get ahead-you goddam racist liberal builder-of-the-socially-constructed-poverty idiot.”
To be clear: you don’t get it. The cause of this poverty is not “being black”; the cause is our society’s amazing ability to undermine the efforts and intelligence of African Americans.
AFFLICTED. As in a virus afflicts someone and makes them sick. The origin isn’t in the person who’s sick; the origin is in the external virus.
And guess who’s the virus in this case, Towertone?
But the virus doesn’t affect you, so really, how could you care, Towertone?
You live in a fucked up world, Frank.
And you blame everybody else for it.
And you still don’t know how to read.
Yeah, you’re right. I do live in a fucked world, and it’s the same one you live in. The thing is, I see how fucked it is, and I want to change. You’re benefiting from all the fuckedness, so you see know reason to change.
If you post something bigoted, I will keep telling you it’s bigoted until you realise it and stop. If you feel I’m blaming you, whatever.
Frank
I have never been hired at a factory, though highly qualified, for three reasons.
1) I was not in the military
2) I am not a college graduate
3) I am not a minority
I was told this repeatedly in the 80’s until I gave up. You know not who you speak to.
Hope you can read this,
you Illiterate racist.
If you say minorities have it so good because they get hired at factories before the whites, then I definitely know who I’m talking to: a stupid bigoted moron with no clue.
Answer me this, then Towertone: where are you today? Did not getting that factory job result in a life of poverty? Don’t tell me your success is due to your hard work, perseverance and intelligence, ’cause there’s plenty of minorities who could match or beat you on those accounts.
No, you rose pretty high up because everyone who’s not white are undermined. But, like I said, why would you care since it doesn’t affect you?
you are absolutely amazing Frank.
I tell you I have had reverse discrimination, and not even complaining, just stating it as a fact and once again, you prove you cannot read.
All you can do is read the bad that is in your fucked up mind into whatever someone else writes.
I never said minorities have it so good.
It took me ten years of self employment-remember me paying my South American workers more than my whites?-and then ten years at my current job, to even be able to afford a Mac. This all while I tried to make enough so my wife could be a stay at home mother.
You have lost it Frank. You absolutely have me pegged wrong. The problem is your perception of the world . Get out and live some. And quit thinking you are so morally superior, you elitist child.
Towertone, even the concept of “reverse discrimination” is racist. Even using the word “reverse discrimination” is racist.
And no, I don’t feel a whit sorry for you. You know in many minority families, they don’t have the luxury of the wife staying at home. All the family members, elderly and young work and get paid little. Sometime they work more than 1 job. And they’re STILL in poverty.
And if you think I’m “elitist” because I want an end to bigotry and intolerance, the machinations of a society that undermines perfectly decent, intelligent and able members of our society just because they don’t look white, then I really have no idea what to say. Really, I don’t.
I didn’t think you were a lost cause before, but your last few posts – though less bigoted than usual – made me think otherwise.
I won’t “bother” you anymore. There’s no point speaking French to an Englishman until he learns the language. And really, you’ve been through so much. It would be cruel of me to keep it up. Poor you.
MW: Special. As in, you’re “special”, Towertone.
Well that’s mighty white of you, Frank.
I ask pity from no one.
I have lived among poverty for years, unlike your elitist self.
There were blacks, Mexicans and Native Americans working the same menial jobs I did. Cajuns, too.They had the same oppotunities I had, and most (unbeknownst to a person like you) took them and bettered themselves.
They don’t need your pity any more than I do. They were men, unlike you-a pitiful lost elitist looking for a cause when he doesn’t even know how to read. Good Luck learning reality.
My ancestors owned slaves. At one point one ancestor owned over 50 of them.
Then that gay Republican Lincoln freed the slaves.
At the time, slaves were auctioning for around $3500 each (strong young males).
So, I guess my ancestor was robbed of the equivalent of about 50 MacBook Pros by damn Yankee Republicans.
Ah, the good ole days…
TowerTone, looks like you finally found a counterpart to sling mud back and forth with. You must be so happy.
doesn’t look that way from here, G-Spank.
And as much as I disagree with you, Frank has shown that there is much worse to deal with, as you at least have good post on Apple subjects.
What you discovered in your post is beyond me. WAAAYY beyond.
Have a good weekend.
Thank you, G-spank.
Yes, TT & Frank.
Take it outside, or get a room!
Besides, who wants to talk about racism!
More politics!
(Bolton’s on the way out).
Now, HOW ARE WE TO PAY THE $2B A DAY IRAQ INVASION PRICE TAG?
Any ideas? While we’re interfering in a sectarian situation over there, and Halliburton subsidiaries are charging American Soldiers up to $45 for a sixpack of coke?
What whores.
Let me get this straight, Always-
It would not bother you for me to take a quote of yours and distort it? Then make claims you are a racist when you have spent your entire life abhorring it?
I agree, it’s boring watching people go at it like this, but I’ll be damned if someone is EVER going to claim I am a bigot.
Call me stupid, uneducated, ugly, whatever. those are opinions. But my back really bristles up when someone plays the race card to make them look “Superior” while at the same time claiming I am a bigot.
And me and Frank getting a room? Yeah, that was funny.
Have a good weekend, too.
TT-
Nothing personal.
I didn’t even read through all of those posts. Sorry if I offended you.
No problem, I figured you meant it lightly.
but Frank has pushed too many buttons,
and I might be a bit jumpy. Sorry.
Wow, I just started reading the last 20 or 30 posts and I would say anyone who defines race as color is living with a chip on his shoulder. If one doesn’t understand that the only differences among us is the fact that we are male and female, one can bear children and one cannot and that without the mixing of those two nothing will exist in one generation outside of technological and physical (insemination)intervention. I put that last bit in there for those of you who want to justify homosexuality. You have bitten into the apple of stupidity and not knowledge. Just remember it is you passing it on to your children who will in turn spit the same stupidity to the generation that follows.
Have a nice day.
PS To get the post back on track I think that there are more who lean to the right then left who own Macs.
There are at least two types of bigots.
Type 1 bigots are usually people who harbour so much insecurity and self-hatred that they seek out offensive and socially damaging behaviour just to feel “big” and temporarily escape their painful self-loathing. Examples of this type would be CMC and Jerry T. There’s no point discussing anything with them, because that’s exactly what they want: attention. Paying attention to them will only bring on more racist and morally indecent comments. They are a lost cause and best to ignore them.
Type 2 bigots are usually decent people who for whatever reason have acquired bigoted beliefs and attitudes and are somewhat uncomfortable with them. But, they don’t want to be bigots and are morally opposed to bigots. Thus, they experience shame when they think that perhaps they have possibly done something bigoted. But instead of dealing with their behaviour, they deny it because they’re afraid of feeling shame. Once you get them beyond that fear of feeling of shame (because shame is not necessary and it’s not nearly as important as changing their bigoted behaviour) they will actually modestly agree that perhaps they’ve done something harmful to others and they try to move on and improve themselves. One just needs to keep providing them with feedback that, “Hey, what you said is bigoted and please stop” and over time they’ll change.
I thought of Towertone as a Type 2 bigot, and then today quickly started to think he’s a Type 1. Now that he’s mentioning that I’ve “pushed his buttons” it’s obvious that he’s sensitive about the issue and likely is afraid to feel shame for his actions. So, I’d say he’s definitely a Type 2. which means there’s hope. He just needs to get over his fear of shame, and realise shame isn’t important or necessary. It’s okay to say, “Oops, I’ve done something unkind and possibly harmful, I’ll try to watch myself from now on.” All that is asked is that he refrain from a harmful behaviour. And he will grow as a person and eventually feel better about himself and the world with this new found freedom from shame.
And just look. All this time all I’ve been asking Towertone to do is recognise that the things he’s posting are bigoted, and to stop posting such comments, as such comments hurt others. He denies it, says others aren’t hurt, and if they’re hurt it’s their own problem, without realising how he is responsible as well. Denying his own social responsibility is sociopathic, but brought on from his strong inner sense of decency and fear of feeling shame for his actions. If he can overcome his fear, then he can feel better and more free, and he will begin to actually behave as his conscience advises him.
There is a good man in Towertone, he just needs to clean up his behaviour and it will come through.
Just to add a little bit to what I already wrote and this is strictly for your education. Please read the following book:
The Origin of Species
by Means of Natural Selection,
or
The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life
This is the book that is used in evolution for those of you who dont believe in God. It was written by Charles Darwin and was one of the favorites of Adolph Hitler. So everytime you hear about racism, say thank you for your teacher in class who taught you about evolution.
I don’t get what opie said, but I’m guessing he’s a Type 1.
To the right,
to the right,
to the right, right, right!
Frank,
You’ve done a good job trying to prove why African Americans are so poor. Whites secretly undermining their growth right?
Well you may have a point, but whites (Anglo-Germans) undermined the Chinese, Mexican, Italian, Polish, Irish and every other group that we didn’t like at the time. But all of those other groups seemed to overcome the undermining by turning to their own communities to establish themselves.
Why haven’t the blacks turned within to grow? They could have built banks, stores and other services within their own communities like the other groups did to build an economic base for themselves but they didn’t. Are they not smart enough? The ones that I know that do want more out of life and try to excel are viewed as abandoning their community not strengthening it.
When someone succeeds from other ethnic groups they are viewed as a success and a testament of their group, not as an Uncle Tom trying to be the man. There is a lot of self defeatism in that group.
And all of these notions about why African Americans are amongst the poorest don’t answer why Black governed nations in Africa are amongst the most corrupt and poor in the world.
Again almost every nation and ethnic group has been conquered and colonized by the whites. But most of the others have overcome that and grown economically in the world. Not the Blacks in Africa, why? Are they not smart enough?
Before applying any of your wisdom to someone else put the shoes on your own feet to see if they fit.
Some wise sage once told me that there are basically three things tht are hard to do.
1, Climb a fence leaning towards you.
2, Kiss a girl leaning away from you.
3, Helping someone who doesn’t want it in the first place.
Try not to guess when you think your figuring people out. You may be surprised!
Those who lean to the left usually act that way.
Jerry, I’m not going get involved with you in any discussion,but if you sincerely care and want to figure out what’s up with the corruption in Africa, I suggest:
A. Read up on the history of Africa, starting with the Romans. A real history though, not something made up by Hitler.
B. Figure out that maybe all blacks in Africa are not the same and have different cultures, and yes, different governments. Moreover, there are plenty of white governments that are incredibly corrupt as well, in case you didn’t know.
“Arguing on the Internet is a lot like being in the Special Olympics.
Even if you win… you’re still retarded.”
SmackInDaHead,
I think you may be the smartest person on this forum. Great reply!
I really like Franks scientific assessment of me based on a bombastic reply to someone else’s arrogantly smug post. Some people are just too smart for their own good.
I’m glad I’m type 1! Type 2 is the first loser, remember if you’re not first you’re last!
MW/she…as is she (Chrissyone) is hot!!!!
“Why haven’t the blacks turned within to grow? They could have built banks, stores and other services within their own communities like the other groups did to build an economic base for themselves but they didn’t. Are they not smart enough? The ones that I know that do want more out of life and try to excel are viewed as abandoning their community not strengthening it.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood,_Florida
http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/Departments/hpolscrv/VdeLaOliva.html
You really, really couldn’t handle the full truth. But for the sake of your own spirit, you should try.
Jerry T, Type 1,
Is it only a “real” history if it agrees with your conclusions?
That sounds like gwm’s reply to me; he is a liberal and promotes free speech if he likes what you say. Otherwise he promotes prison for those that express ideas that he doesn’t agree with. Yeah, I’d say that’s pretty liberal.
And any history that tries to blame sub-Saharan problems on the Romans is ridiculous. They never made it that far. And all of the African colonies they did have are doing relatively well. Of course those nations in North Africa are Arabic, Berber etc. and not Black. And of course if you think of countries with Presidents for life as doing well.
And yes I know that all Blacks in Africa are not the same ethnically or culturally. But all black governments are failing. So if they are all failing across all the different cultures and regardless of tribal ethnicity, does that imply something deficient in the whole?
I agree with you kind of that there are plenty of corrupt White governments. I personally think that the Bush administration is one of the most corrupt on the planet.
But I mean the kind that exists in Africa, where it goes right down to the traffic cop standing on the corner. Corruption so rampant that it retards ALL national growth, economic or otherwise. You do see that in other areas, 1980’s Latin America for example, but you don’t see it as a whole and as persistently as you do in sub-Saharan Africa.
And none of that has anything to do with Hitler or the Romans.
BTW, my people were enslaved by the Romans too. Am I owed some sort of reparation from the wops?
Tower Tone said: “And as much as I disagree with you, Frank has shown that there is much worse to deal with, as you at least have good post on Apple subjects.”
Why thank you Tower Tone, now I feel bad coming at you as hard as I did. I did get you on that quote, though.
At least we both agree that Macs kick ass!
bond co. stooge,
I know that terrible events like this have happened. Hell a Black man was dragged to death by Whites from behind a vehicle not too many years ago in my State (1998). But for every Rosewood and James Byrd how many other communities and people are out there that weren’t terrorized.
And again this says nothing about why Blacks fail in their own continent of Africa too.
Jerry T
The answers to your questions can be found in this documentary, or even better the book: “Guns, Germs, and Steel” (National Geographic).
Watch it or read it and you will be informed.
You’re still in here two days later making up phoney interpretations of the words of others, Jerry? heh. k. Serves MDN right for going with a politicized topic, I guess.
By the way .. MSNBC is currently running an online poll about impeaching Bush, eh? Seems that as they approach a half million responses, it’s running about 87% in favor of impeachment. Maybe you oughta hop on over there try to balance things out a bit?
Regardless .. President Pelosi is sounding better and better with each passing posting you make. Yum. ahahaha!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/
What’s the icon to the right of Rumsfeld in the dock?
Inquiring minds want to know.
gwm
Not to jump in but that is about what I would expect from PMSNBC, the station that brings Keith Oberman ot all(of the few that watch), not that there’s anything wrong with it…
interesting email I got today-
“In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England’s Prime Minister Tony Blair’s words during a recent interview.
When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America, he said:
“A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in .….. And how many want out.”
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
#1 Jesus Christ
#2 The American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET BOTH OF THEM.”
MW: together
I only learned about Olberman a few months ago, TowerTone. Me? I liked the guy. He seemed honest.
That said, I fully understand that the MSNBC poll is not scientific. It does seem to be the case however, that you might have to dump your browser cookies to re-access the voter page in the same browser. At least that’s how it seems to be working out at my house. That circumstance would appear to at least offset some potential critique of intentional voter distortion. Read it however you want, however. I happen to think it’s at least indicative of a widely popular sentiment.
And .. because it looks like a Microsoft icon, I did hunt around a bit over at Microsoft dot com, but I couldn’t ID that icon in the Dock next to Rumsfeld. Somebody gonna clue us in?
TowerTone,
I may not agree with you on #1, but I damn sure do on #2.
And Tony Blair is correct. I may at times advocate building walls to keep people out, but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to live in one of those countries that build walls to keep you in.
Gwm,
You said that I belong in prison with the other Nazis because I have Nazi ideas. You said that, in your own words. Read your post, that’s what “YOU” said. No phony interpretation by me.
Now, if you didn’t mean it literally, or it was a knee jerk reaction, or wish to retract “YOUR” statement because imprisoning people for ideas and thoughts doesn’t sound too liberal when you really think about it, that’s fine.
But like I said before, your reaction was the exact same as 95% of the so-called liberals. You are a mirror image of those you profess to hate. You are just as conservative and bigoted as anyone else that can’t stand or tolerate opinions that differ from their own. You’re just a different side of the same coin.
That’s why I find it funny that I’m a Nazi and advocate tolerance and acceptance for all and you are a liberal and advocate thought police…
G-Spank,
I looked that up, and it looks very interesting. I’ll definitely look more into that. Thanks!
gwm,
I would be up for impeaching Bush and the whole lot of draft dodging scum leading us right now.
Cheney and Ashcroft had seven deferments when their nation called. Bush ran to the State side national guard. Great fucking Patriots they are.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it forever…Ashcroft the singing senator, please sing me a patriotic song about them there deferments!
I hate the whole lot of them!
Noop. That’s not what I said, stalker. You’re shit outta luck on that particular line of hooey.
G-Spank,
Wow, you can get a complete transcript of the “Guns, Germs, and Steel” show at:
http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/
Very interesting indeed.
Thanks again!
MW/reached…as in g-spank may have reached me this time.
Gwm,
Here is your entire post:
Well, Jerry …
”Frankly .. I hope you go to prison with the rest of the Nazis. Your kind piss me off so bad I feel like puking. You better hope we never meet in person, you goddamn racist asshole.”
And in another post you claim to throw Nazis out on their ears.
In your liberal view of the world is it a common practice to be violent to people that you disagree with? Don’t get me wrong I know plenty of Nazis that love to do violence to others; they just don’t claim to be liberals. And of course they are Nazis, one expects them to be violent.
So do you advocate thought police, prison and violence for ideas that you disagree with or don’t you?
BTW, stalker seems a little gay to me. I didn’t mention you in those posts, just your comments. You insinuated your way back into the conversation.
Tranny I dig, gay I don’t.
A quote! There you go.
I said only what I said pal, and not what you redefine it as. I’ll betcha you’ll still be in here choking on it a week from now.
man. i guess most mac users are nazis and republicans who believe that there is no need to stop spending and hating each other and killing innocent people and torturing people and mutilating their bodies for profits and killing and torturing and mutilating and white power and bullshit.
i’m buying a pc.
Frank says pc’s are for bigots.
please help us,
Well that’s what gwm seems to think. And he calls himself a liberal.
God I hate liberals that can’t stand or tolerate the views of others…
gwm,
Yeah you said what you said. Which was; that you want me in prison for my ideas. If you don’t like it, don’t say it.
I’ll save an armband for you. Do you want the standard red and black swastika or do you prefer pink?
“By the way .. MSNBC is currently running an online poll about impeaching Bush, eh? Seems that as they approach a half million responses, it’s running about 87% in favor of impeachment. Maybe you oughta hop on over there try to balance things out a bit?”
This is just pent up frustration over the last several years. On the surface it would seem just and fair considering what this country has been through in the last several years, but this will never happen.
There is the pending Libby trail whose outcome may force Bush or even Cheny to resign. Even if they don’t resign, this trail may damaged this presidency further. Regardless, if anything forces Bush from office, we have Cheney to look forward too. This guy has about half the approval and trust rating of Bush. That’s bad. And if Bush were to leave office prematurely, Cheny and he are so closely tied together that Bush may drag Cheny down with him or at best further damage Cheny’s already very weak approval rating. Any way you look at it, it leaves America in a weaken state.
America can not afford an impeachment of the presidency. America has too much on its plate with the Iraq war and all. Bush will very likely deal to bring an end to the Iraq war before he leaves office for a guaranty he will not be impeached.
There are on-going investigations and well as new investigations that will commence when the Dems take control that will further show who this administration is and who it really represents. This will have to do.
C’MON! Bush isn’t “really” the prez. He’s an electable “puppet”.
Cheney runs the show.
Are you kidding? BUSH IS LITERALLY AND IDIOT!
Although, I detect a change in his countenance, as if he is just waking up.
(Hey, I really AM the prez, and I’ve been led down a fool’s path. Well, I AM the decider, and now I’m gonna start actually makin’ the decicions).
Very possible.
He’ still stoooopid though.
And a dangerously religious nut, (doesn’t understand separation of church and state).
I don’t know if I missed an answer here (can’t reread this many posts!), but WHAT IS that icon in the dock, next to Secretary Rumsfeld?
bjr
I’m afraid you will be disapointed when they drop the charge against Libby, seems he didn’t do anything wrong other than give testimonies that didn’t match. Now if there were other charges, or if he had any connection to the alleged “crime”, the charge he faces now would stick. As is, he had no reason to lie, and memory fails the best of us.
the same goes for Delay. I know how much the Dems hate him, but that is because he was effective, so they took him out. The rule that forced him to resign is a Republican policy, the dems don’t even have a similiar rule, which is you have to step down if indicted-not charged or found guilty, just indicted. And this was done by a DA in Travis County, Texas (beautiful country around Austin) who had to have SIX grand juries called to get ONE indictment. Wqhat happened to the first five?
Now, there may have been some laws broken by his staff, evenby him, but what they did to get him out of office was itself a crime.
Always Right,
It’s Firefox.
It’s the shredder function for Office.
Developed for Enron…
Being indicted by a grand jury is no small matter. Libby was indicted only for lying to the grand jury. But what did he lie about, the release of a undercover CIA agent to the world. Libby’s memory may be a little flakey but not those of others who were questioned about this case. A grand jury won’t indicted someone unless it believes it has hard evidence of misdoing. I don’t believe a foggy memory will hold up as much of a defense
Considering the nature of this case, where the right hand man of THE VP of the US is being investigated for a crime that is punishable by death, I ‘m sure this grand jury made goddamn sure they had an air tight case. Libby was indicted, but not Carl Rowe nor anyone else.
I don’t know if the President can pardon someone that implicates him in a crime. But considering how Bush has dismissed parts of constitution, bill of rights, the laws of this land and even international laws that protect out own military in times of war, I don’t believe Bush will allow this to stand in his way.
bjr
I know a good story is hard to let go, but this is from the Washington Post, no less
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/31/AR2006083101460.html
I agree there is plenty of corruption in the District, always has been. I just hate when they go after someone for the politics, and not the crime.
Strange how we never hear much about this anymore
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021502752.html
Or Abramoffs connection to Harry Reid via the Indians.
None of this excuses the Republicans from their crimes, but there is a long, long list of people on the take, and partisanship will only slow down the hunt.
To date, the only person that I’ve heard being indicted for the CIA spy case has been Libby. This isn’t just anybody, but the closest aid to the vice president of the USA.
Democrat Jefferson was caught with the money and the Dems forced him out. There is no denial (except on Jefferson’s part) nor a coverup. That’s why it is not a story.
Abramoff only gave money to Republicans. The indian tribes were clients of Abramoff. A client of Abramoff’s firm does not work for Abramoff, rather the firm works for the client. That’s why they are called clients. This is like saying that Abramoff’s barber donated money to the Dems, therefore, the Dems took money from Abramoffs barber. The money came from the barber and not Abramoff.
You forget that these indian tribes were Abramoffs clients as well as his victims. Abramoff pitted one tribe against the other and made millions off these tribes. He also referred to these people as “monkeys”. Now these indian tribes are suing Abramoff.
AP report on election coverage
“LOUISIANA:
While change was the watchword nationally, Louisiana incumbents led in every congressional contest. Five Republicans and one Democrat will return to the House. Embattled Democrat William Jefferson, subject of an FBI bribery probe, led a field of 13 candidates but faces what is expected to be a difficult runoff Dec. 9 against fellow Democrat Karen Carter.”
It is the hypocracy of the reporting, leading to a demand for action, resulting in the lack of common sense in prosecuting these cases that infuriates me. Almost invisible evidence on Delay, and it is national spotlight. A goddam video, audio, and money on Jefferson, not to mention he had the National Guard take him to his home during the Katrina rescue just so he could get his cash. Now that doesn’t mean don’t check into Delay, it means the media is a leftist tool.
In the cae against Libby, it was known from day 1 that Armitage was the leaker, yet he was told NOT to admit it by the Special Prosecutor so he could go on a fishing trip and have power for two years. What a rediculous waste of taxpayers money, government resouces, and national attention. But since it helped the Democrats, like the Delay trap, newswires ate it up, demanding their readers to take the blood they were offered.
As far as the ones caght red handed, Abramoff or not, when convicted, I hope they rot in Hell.
Throughout Europe, dozens of US government operatives are wanted by the police for kidnapping in connection with extraordinary rendition activities. Additionally, the German courts are on the brink of going after some of the highest American government officials for criminal activity relating to the war and to war prisons specifically.
These circumstances are not likely to continued to be taken lightly by the American public, given the current mood of the nation, imho. I think Americans are finally coming to understand just how bad it has gotten in their government, and I suspect that this developing circumstance of self awareness does not bode well for the likelyhood of avoiding the initiation of similar criminal indictments of government officials in the United States.
Nobody wants to be known as a Nazi and nobody wants to be a pariah. America will likely work hard to rid itself of that. I really do think it will.
You libs are sick in the head. The libs are the true haters. You’re the ones causing all of the division. Punish successful, hard working people to feed the free loaders. Republicans have no problem helping the truly needy but we do not want to enable the slackers out there that look for free hand outs at the expense of the hard working. The libs are so pathetic when dealing with national security. Look how happy the terrorists and Iran are that the dems won. You can thank the liberal media for that victory. Habitualy pounding away with negative press and lies finally tricked the middle of the roaders into voting the wrong way. You’ll see in 08. It will all shift back to where it should be.
What asshole did you crawl out from. Pointing out the truth and injustices in America is not spreading hate. It is informing the masses of conditions that are and can affect American lives. In the case of national security you and your kind forget Bush was in charge on 9/11. There was evidence of plots and yet nothing was done. Yet Bush was all to eager to sound the alarm after 9/11 and leading up to the 2004 presidential elections of threats and plots that never seem to materialize. Then to proudly claim we haven’t been attacked since. Did someone forget the anthrax attack. How many recommendation from the 9/11 commission (Bush was against the creation of this commission) has Bush in-acted?
Yes, I watch Fox too. The Dems don’t come into power until January ’07 and Fox is already pointing to comments by Dems in the past calling Bush names and that the terrorist are listening and that this will embolden the terrorist to once again to attack. Thanks Fox for keeping America so safe.
This is the same network that allowed Hannity about two months before the elections to say that America had indeed found WMD in the form of biological weapons in Iraq. And that he was waiting on all those anti-everything-good Dems to apologize for daring to doubt the president.
Of course, he failed to mention that the US military had already discredited these weapons. These weapons were from the ’80’s and they had degraded so much that a person almost had to lick them in order to become infected. Fox News, fair and balanced. Yea, like an oval wheel.
The only Network that lies is Fox news. The other networks state the news as is, good or bad. America voted the Republicans out-office because they had a Napoleon complex. They wanted to rule the world with Bush as the emperor. Don’t hold your breath for Republicans in ’08. Before ’08 many more Republicans will be disgraced and forced out of office including those in the current administration.
Olie,
In science, subspecies and race may be used interchangeably. I would guess that Darwin, being a naturalist rather than a sociologist used the word race to mean phenotypically unique populations of animals. As I recall, he was a Christian and was famous for his studies on finches. You probably ought to investigate further than the title of a book. It is also a bit rich to imply that he is in any way responsible for Hitler. Knowledge can be misused and misinterpreted.
Nothing puts coin in MDN’s coffers better, or faster, than a little well-positioned opportunity to bait those who are only too delighted to engage in some heated political jousting…
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I’ve been shocked, provoked, sickened and amused by the comments on this thread so far. It’s interesting to note that the powers at MDN have chosen to give up masking the use of expletives in posts, as they once did in the not too distant past.
Me, I couldn’t care less who leans in either direction politically, or straddles the fence for that matter, as long as they do it while using a Mac.
This whole thread totally blows Zeller’s assertion not just out of the water, but utterly and completely off the planet.
Hope he sees it!
BuriedCaesar,
I found it interesting, though at times a bit terrifying as well. I use a Mac and I am also interested in politics. We used up a bit of bandwidth, but at least the first half of the discussion was interesting.
After reading the discussion, I have also decided that I lean to the left, though there are aspects of social behaviour that I had not even realise existed (i,e, CrissyOne), though I personally don’t care what he/she decides to lop off (in the event it was not all a rather odd joke).
It strikes me that there has been a lot of discussion about hate, fear and retribution, stemming from the actions of the 9/11 terrorists. Those reactions are very understandable and are at the core of every human being. It is very horrible and unsettling to have people come to your country and kill thousands of people for goals that to this day are rather vague (in a genocidal sort of way).
The problem with the current scenario is that what the terrorists did on a rather small scale, we are replicating on a comparatively massive scale in Iraq. I understand that there are many complexities as to how the current situation arose, but on a human level, those of us who felt as though we were on the receiving end of 9/11 can certainly relate emotionally to the family members of those who become the many, many thousands of indirect targets of the current conflict in Iraq.
I have worked with many Islamic people in my career and have gotten to know their families as well. It is of course no surprise that they eat, breath, laugh, cry and raise children to whom they are very devoted – much like the rest of us. In our society, we see personalities that range from aggressive and hate-filled to gentle and loving (as well as all possible mixtures of those and other personality traits). It is again no surprise that Islamic people can display the same range of personality traits. Just as the world tends to view US citizens through the prism of US governmental policies, we are tending to lose sight of the humanity of others as we lump entire cultures under the banners of “enemy” and “terrorist” and view individuals through the prism of terrorist pronouncements and news bulletins.
Those of you who are the most hostile provide me with a glimpse of the hostility that must be directed towards us by the more extreme individuals on the “other side”. Those of you who are the most pacificst provide me with a sense of hope that despite the conflict, there are those in the Islamic world at large, who also yearn for peace and harmony in the world. Regardless of how the conflict resolves itself, it is the people of good will who will have to do the mending and reconstruction thereafter.
I was a youth in the USA during the Vietnam War and currently live in a community in Australia that happens to be predominantly of Vietnamese descent. My Vietnamese friends have harrowing tales of their escape from the aftermath of the Vietnamese civil war. I am not blind to the disruption caused by war and the extreme difficulties in dealing with the aftermath. Conflict is horrible, reconstruction is difficult and real people, much like you and I are affected by it.
By reading these boards, it seems that my awareness makes me “left-leaning”.
Good post, Paul.
However, the problem isn’t just the scale of the retribution in Iraq, it is that Iraq is not where the terrorists were.
All the right wingers on this board can say what they will about it, or me and others like me (some of the more brilliant responses to my posts are “Creepy, very creepy an “you are a truly disgusting person”).
But anyone can study the history of our “democracy-bulding” intentions throughout the Middle East, from sources both left and right.
Where is Osama Bin Laden?
We gave up our search in 2001, in Afghanistan.
Hussien was, what, going to blow us up or something?
Big trouble looms ahead, since we haven’t gotten serious about security, and foriegn policy.
But then again, in America, we have a dufus fake-cowboy for a president.
Please allow me to attempt to put this post to rest.
We can all quote great leaders.
We can all argue semantics.
We can all hope for the best.
But none of us mortals can deny this quote
“We’re dicks! We’re reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the Film Actors Guild are pussies. And Kim Jong Il is an asshole. Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate – and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves… because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don’t let us fuck this asshole, we’re going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit! “
Amen, brother. Amen.
That was stupid.
“We can all quote great leaders.” yet not head their words and even twist their words
” We can all hope for the best.” yet continue to support that which prevents us from doing or being our best
I agree, the statement that followed was stupid and rude. Seek help.
Once again I apologize that my attempt at humor is not near as funny as some who attempt seriousness.
“yet not head their words and even twist their words”
I think the word you were looking for was “heed”
That’s the Brit spelling.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
And remember, while you’re over there, don’t offer to “pat a woman’s fanny”.
bjr,
You are a true idiot. There were WMDs found in Iraq. Not on the scale that you hoped for. But how do you know they were’nt moved to Syria? Also how about the nuclear documents stupidly posted on the web about Iraq’s nuclear program? That proves he was trying to get nukes. NYT wrote about it trying to embarrass the Bush admin but proved Bush right that Sadam did have a nuclear program in the process. The terrorists, Iran, Syria, N. Korea and all of the other bad actors are ecstatic that the dems won. I wonder why? You libs are terrorist lovers and anti-american. Case closed.
Christoff-
Christoff
Where is Osama Bin Laden?
Thought I’d check up what all the recent activity is about over here.
Looks like Towertone’s proving again what a Type 1 bigot he is, an example for all bigots across the nation looking for new and more creative ways of spewing hatred.
Who else but an ignorant, self-centred woman-hating, gay-hating, racist bigot would post a comment like that?
Really, Towertone, grow up. I tell you to stop posting offensive and harmful comments and you spew it out with even more gusto.
What a horrible fuckhead you are. You say things like that in front of your mother?
Hey, you back offa’ my boyfriend.
It’s not his fault he’s impotent.
;P
-c
MW: ‘problems’ (really can be solved with intelligence and civility)
Y’all can suck my tits, you left leaning pussy eaters!!!
Hmmn, yes, I’M a left-leaning pussy eater.
I like that,
I’m going to add that to my resume.
Much better than “Right-Wing-Cocksucker” any day.
-c
MW: ‘reached’ (for it, but it was too small to get a grip on)
Hey now, there’s nothing wrong with cock sucking…or pussy eating.
Reguarding post at 4:53PM
That is not mine.
I was in Little Rock at that time, hours from my home,and y’all know me better, I hope, than to believe I would post anything that reactionary or childish.
My money is on Chief Frank of the P.C. Police Dept, who has done it before, a typical ploy for free speech haters.
I am sometimes amazed, though I shouldn’t be, at the hate hurled at our government, the half lies that are blown out of proportion, the downright BS spew-en admittedly from both sides, that settles no arguments posted on the site.
To think that a quote from “Team America”, which I think is hilarious, could make anybody mad, considering the ridiculousness of it, is a little baffling. (not from Frank though, he hates anything I say or think)
So I guess had someone else quoted this, or something similiar, it would have been read in a different context, which tell me it is time to go.
Re: post of 5:04 pm.
That IS me.
And I meant it.
I have a deep distrust of anyone who cheer-leads for the US government. I regard it as a necessary evil, to be tolerated but no encouraged. I don’t *hate* the government, but I certainly don’t *trust* it, either.
-c
MW: ‘large’ (portions of the population agree)
I want to tell you a story…
It happened, oh, about 3 years ago, give or take. It was on a site called MACNN.COM. Apple had just been rewarded the honor of “totally bitchin’ place to work if yer gay,” and news of said event was posted on said website.
(“You fought with my father in the Flame Wars?”)
Yes, young Jedi, I was there. And JUST after that, considering all the very kind things people had said to one another, under the cover of anonymity and all, the fine people at MacNN decided to upgrade the comment interface and use real logins.
Can I get a SteveJack?
-c
MW: ‘people’ (are sometimes mistaken for lucid)
Always Right
I’m a forward leaning pussy eater (unlike Frank) I lean left and right for effect, though.
Chrissy One
I don’t cheer lead so much as defend them when I believe they are right, and get pissed when they are wrong.
And as far as trust, they are not perfect. and should be watched.
And to finally feed Frank a bone-not the one he wants, I think of homosexuals as you do the government-tolerated, but not encouraged, not hated and not trusted. That isn’t from ignorance, that is from experience.
Good luck to you.
MW:will, as in “many foreigners will gladly trade with you for the privelage to live in America.”
So you *were* gay.
I knew it.
-c
MW: ‘designed” (by higher power. had to be)
No, not by a long shot (pun)
I am the son of a fairly successful interior designer, so I was raised around gays, and found out early in life, they are just people.
Live and let live-it goes both ways.
<h3>Christoff</h3>
Settle down before you give yourself a stroke. What evidence do you site that Iraq had WMD leading up the the Iraq war? I must have missed the earth-shaking breaking news that WMDs were found in Iraq in the last 3-1/2 years. Once the Bush administration realized there were no WMDs they changed their statement mission from WMDs, to freedom , democracy and elections. The last time I checked the US military is for the protection of the US against threats, not nation building or dying on some foreign land so that those people can have elections. This is a perverse use of our military. There were no WMS found except in your private Idaho.
Since you and your like are claiming that there are WMDs, then it’s up to you to prove these WMDs exist. See if can give Bush a hand. For no one has found any WMDs nor proof that there was any program to produce WMDs in Iraq. The Bush administration produced photos from spy satellites and planes showing mobile labs claiming to produce biological agents yet when they were finally located, they were some type portable toilets.
A real threat was the posting of nuclear documents by the Bush administration on the web. What little I heard, they posted plans, engineering plans that showed how-to built nuclear devices. With these plans the only missing element was the nuclear material to make an actual bomb. Way to go Bush. And he and the once-were-republicans have the balls to accuse the Dems of supporting the terrorists because Dems want to actually read a document before they sign it into law, protect the constitution and the bill of rights and have accountability from our government. Crazy.
I also missed that bit of news when Syria, N. Korea and Iran celebrated the victory of the Dems. Oh, I forgot, you saw it on Fox. This network still shows in their tele-prompt at the bottom of the screen those “Terror-Alert warning”. Fox sure knows their audience. Anyone that gives their loyalty and patriotism to a political party over that of their own nation, is the greatest threat to that nation.
Hell, are we still arguing about WMDs?
TT and I were having a moment and ya went and fscked it up.
Look, if you’re not SURE you have found WEAPONS of MASS DesTRUCTION..
You HAVEN’T!
“Well, I mean, *maybe* they could destroy a mass…”
“Oh yeah, it’s *possible*…”
“It would have to be a clear day, though.”
Whatever they are talking about above, it’s NOT a THERMONUCULAR* WARHEAD.
Capisce?
-c
*translated at the pleasure of the president
MW: ‘effects’ (may include dizziness, nausea, and instant vaporization)
Well, here’s some news.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L- 3327439,00.html
http://townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=where_is_the_west&ns=ThomasSowell&dt=11/09/2006&page=full&comments=true
Also, “the greatest threat to that nation” is misguided loyalty, no matter how good the intentions.
bjr,
you are a true terrorist lover. you and you’re ilk will unfortunately find out how wrong you are if you manage to hold on to a majority. the liberal news media which is the vast majority of major news outles did sway the election the wrong way. once another bad attack happens you’ll see how wrong you were. you’ll probably give the terrorists the wmds hoping they’ll be nice to you afterwards. complete f*cking idiots you people are.
Here you go bjr, have fun:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:K6GY36FP0k4J:www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=164006&Disp=9&Trace=on+al+qaeda+democrat+celebrate+cnn&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=27&client=safari
Hey, I’m having a party, and I want everybody to come!!!
Alan.
a sad example of sad clown, standing in the corner-bottle in hand, lashing out at any who come near.
Sore loser.
Sounds a lot like Tom Delay’s sour grapes.
Besides, his premise is all fucked up.
Where’s the fire?
http://news.com.com/2100-1028_3-6135187.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-5&subj=news
hurry, it’s almost out.
Always Wrong,
Wrong again. You are a serious terrorist lover. You’ll be to blame when things get worse. Ahole!
Get ready for unnecessary tax increases! Ye-haw liberal, commie, terrorist lovers.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009243
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/14/D8LCSCI02.html
Liberals = F*CKING IDIOTS-LOSERS
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/14/wiran14.xml
I’ve noticed that the more conservative among you seem to be VERY excited about the whole world ending because Nancy Palosi is speaker.
Kinda sadistic and Un-American, if you ask me.
Is it an American value to want to see your country fail?
Are we really that different?
Sad.
But hey, I guess if the scary scary terrorists attack us next year, and thousands of people die, you can be proud of how right you were.
What patriots you all are.
I’m sure Thomas Jefferson would be proud.
-c
MW: ‘age’ (brings wisdom, but dogma also)
I’m a serious terrorist lover?
Really?
Are you nuts?
Go lick your wounds.
ChrissyOne,
Go crawl back under your eurotrash rock you pile of slime. You too always wrong.
No ChrissyOne, they won’t be right if terrorists attack.
It wil STILL BE THIER FAULT.
What have we done about port security?
Airport security? (Real)
Amtrak?
Railroads?
Nuc. facilities?
IMMIGRATION?
Nothing.
Whiney republicans, very unbecoming.
No, Joey, I am ALWAYS RIGHT!
Just like when I said that Bush would eventually stop saying “stay the course”.
(Of course, I never dreamed he’d be THAT stupid, to say “this was never about staying the course”. What a dufus.)
You know what he is, don’t you?
A FLIP-FLOPPER.
Bush was FOR staying the course before he was AGAINST it.
That means, flip flop, right?
See, I AM Always Right.
Joey – I love you, and I want to have your babies.
“eurotrash pile of slime”
^_^
The vocabulary of the modern-day sanitation employee knows no bounds.
-c
MW: ‘fiscal’ (responsibility means higher deficits. Or so I’m told)
Towertone, you keep proving what a dolt you are.
Dolt dolt dolt dolt dolt.
You know, it doesn’t matter how many Iraqis you kill in the name of a lie and stupidity, you’re still a dolt.
Maybe you can kill the world and then you’ll be able to gloat over it, but you’ll still be a dolt; just no one will be around to tell you.
Americans! Kills all you the non-whites while you can! The Democrats are in power…!!!!
And by the way, Towertone, I don’t need to go pretending to be you and making embrassing redneck posts: you already do it bigotedly better than I ever could.
I must say, as a registered Republican, that I’m glad to see the Democrats get in power. After all, with control of both houses of Congress and a lame-duck President, they should be able to correct all of the problems that everyone keeps complaining that the current Republican administration couldn’t/wouldn’t correct.
We’ll be watching. Elephants have good memories.
I hear elephants are also addicted to painkillers and gay pr0n.
-c
MW: ‘remember’ (I shit you not)
You Americans are stupid.
Really stupid.
No wonder you’re going down the tubes.
Rot there.
“you are a true terrorist lover. you and you’re ilk will unfortunately find out how wrong you are if you manage to hold on to a majority. the liberal news media which is the vast majority of major news outles did sway the election the wrong way. once another bad attack happens you’ll see how wrong you were. you’ll probably give the terrorists the wmds hoping they’ll be nice to you afterwards. complete f*cking idiots you people are.”
Jump back in your bra, bitch. With the ongoing investigations into republican misconduct, if anything, the republicans will lose even more seats. And yes, the media had a great deal to do with the outcome of the election. After all, where do you think citizens of a nation get their info about their country and the world. It’s from their own government and the free press that helps to keep a government in check and inform the people. It was the facts, the truth that people finally listened too. Bush, the republicans and Fox cried “wolf” once too often. Thank God for the free press. God knows if the republicans stayed in power that may no longer have been the case.
If the US gets hit again in the next 2 years that will make it 3 attacks under Bush. Our world just became more dangerous since the republicans released how-to plans for nuks on the web. Maybe this is part of Bush’s master plan. You know, the ushering in of the second coming. Republicans have called “dibs” on Jesus and made him into the republican’s mascot wearing a school jersey with a large capital red “R” on the jersey. Yet they speak nothing about the love and forgiveness that Jesus preached.
i have nothing to add to this mildly entertaining thread other than a wholehearted endorsement of MDN adding proper logins to keep the riffraff out.
Mike K: Go munch on a Zune you turkey.
Peabody — i take your point, however, i will have to disagree. You do make a good case though, and i appreciate your informed viewpoint.
Mike K., I concur.
Yes, logins, *please*
I can hardly spell my own name right most of the time.
But then that’s prolly my damaged liberal female dyke mind that’s failing me.
fa la!!!
-c
MW: ‘dark’ (times ahead for the homo-terrorist-commie-lovin’ US. Better tell your buddy Fred Phelps he was right)
P.S. – Oh, and avatars would be nice. My pics *totally* get hella web hits. =)
Republicans are idiots and bullies. Now they are the Minority party. I hope that DEMS take a page from the Newt playbook and start shoving supeonas up the Bush’s ass. No oversite done for past 6 years. The only good thing is that what is left of the Republican party is just the right wing American Taliban types. We all know what happens when radical religous extremist are in power. Well guys the party is over and it will probably be another 20 years before you even get a whiff of the majority again…that is unless the Dems do the same stupid corrupt things that the Repugnants did.
bu bye bushees
Dear Mike K,
I’m sorry for what I said. I’ve been having a bad day, stressed out, and I lost my temper. It was juvenile of me to post that, and I hope you accept my apology. What I *meant* to say is “You’re a stupid douche bag retard Zune”.
Yours truly,
Peabody
Wow.
I thought I WAS THE ONE who came on too strong.
But it is funny.
You know, how the right-wingers can dish it out, but they can’t take it.
Back to the original topic, though, it is interesting to note, that at least judging by the posters, it doesn’t appear at all that Mac users have a propensity toward leaning only one way, or another.
We Independents use Macs, too.
Where did Johann go?
Speaking of “balls”, how come we haven’t heard from Man Coultergeist lately?
Not even on the Fox InfoTainment “Network”.
bjr
it goes both ways.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/11/abramoff_report.html
Squeaky! Squeaky!
We’re so small
and smell bad!!!
Like Calamata Olives!!!
for Almost Right
http://townhall.com/Columnists/AnnCoulter/2006/11/08/historic_victory_for_diebold!
Blacks vote Democrat
http://townhall.com/Columnists/WilliamFBuckley/2006/11/11/the_inside_story
Well, I’m ashamed of all of you.
Trash, utter trash.
“Speaking of “balls”, how come we haven’t heard from Man Coultergeist lately?
Not even on the Fox InfoTainment “Network”.”
I wish people would stop calling her a transsexual. It’s really offensive to us. ;P
-c
MW: ‘does’ (anything you want it to do. As long as it’s brown)
Peabody i cannot even begin to imagine how difficult it must be to be you. Apology accepted.
– Hey, where’d Towertone go? He’s missing our meeting…
– Who cares, he just makes us look bad anyway…
If it wasn’t so important it would be extremely entertaining watching the libs royally f*ck everything up in this country over the next couple of years. 2008 will through you bafoons right back out of office and the country will be right back on track. The liberal media won’t be able to save your sorry asses twice in a row.
You creepy foreigners who love to America bash are almost as disgusting as the low rent libs. Yes the next two years will be very interesting. The libs will screw everything, I repeat everything, in this country up. Just watch.
Where the hell are you little boys coming from?
Did somebody lift up an old board?
Does anyone ever invite you to parties?
Do women ever want to have sex with you?
Are they in a persistent vegetative state?
“Just watch!!!”
fucking. vogons.
MW: ‘seven’ (miles of bad road? No! Coulter laying on the beach)
Hey Pissy One read it and weep loser:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061114/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear_6
I’ve got one for you too chrissy and eurofreak-commie-lib friends,
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-11-14T205552Z_01_L14452410_RTRUKOC_0_US-NUCLEAR-IRAN-IAEA.xml&src=rss&rpc=22
Can’t wait for your terrorist friends to get ahold of some of that.
Snakes eat their own.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/14/congress.democrats/index.html?section=cnn_latest
chrissy one,
here’s an article in your beloved liberal media out lett CNN that says Republicans are happier than Democrats. Sounds right to me. You libs are a sorry bunch.
chrissy one = fat, ugly, pig
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/11/10/happiness.overview/index.html
“”Speaking of “balls”, how come we haven’t heard from Man Coultergeist lately?
Not even on the Fox InfoTainment “Network”.”
I wish people would stop calling her a transsexual. It’s really offensive to us. ;P””
Wait, Ann Coulter IS a man, right?
Otherwise, it’s a travesty for the trans-gender gay/lesbian folks.
How come Republican pussies have to hide behind psuedonyms when they post?
Snivellers. Whiners. Afraid.
“Just wait…you’lll seee….scary…..creepy”.
BE A MAN.
Be like me.
ALWAYS (repeat) ALWAYS RIGHT.
The next two years under the leadership of Ms. Pelosi will restore honor and dignity to the U.S Government.
Then at least, in the world community, we will once again NOT be viewed as stooges.
Now, if Cheney can just take Bush hunting, and have a heart attack and at the same time have another “hunting accident”, then we can have a REAL PRESIDENT.
Always
I hate to tell you this, but-oh yeah, dammit, I can’t. Code of the time travelers crap, you know.
Well let me go ahead and type “told you so” and leave it at that.
Man is Always Wright ALWAYS WRONG! WHAT A PIECE OF GARGE THAT PERSON IS.
Wendall-
lay off the bottle a little.
Your typing is slurred.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html
Stick this up your asses you liberal-commie-terrorist lovers. F you all.
Never Wrong
Thanks for showing something that most people with at least a foot in the door of reality already knows.
Good luck converting the unbelievers.
Toning down the rhetoric might make it easier for them to check it out, though.
” Stick this up your asses you liberal-commie-terrorist lovers. F you all.”
“Never Wrong
Thanks for showing something that most people with at least a foot in the door of reality already knows.
Good luck converting the unbelievers.
Toning down the rhetoric might make it easier for them to check it out, though.”
Kudos to you both. Another religious organization supporting a piece claiming conservatives are so much better people, family oriented, go to church more often and are actually more charitable than liberals. Remember, charities can never replace the responsibility a government has to its citizens. This person they write about was a Dem, then a Republican and now an Independent. This is piece is as fair and balanced as Fox. We’ll just have to wait and see just how accurate is work is.
Funny how the story doesn’t mention at all on the types of charitable organizations the conservative donate too, except for volunteer work (what type?) and blood donations. Though, I didn’t know that when you volunteered or donated blood, that it is a criteria to state what political affiliation you belong too. Funny. Nor does it say how much more and in which categories conservatives donate than Dems.
Of course these conservatives are the same folk that:
– vote against raising the minimum wage.
– won’t enforce immigration laws to curtail the low-skill illegal immigrants that come into the US.
– want to expand the the H1-B program to allow high-skill foreigners to come into the US to take high skill jobs.
– want to give tax breaks to rich individual and corporations. The trickle down theory, make the rich richer and they will share it with others. They’ll share it alright, with illegal immigrants and their Hummer dealer.
– they’re against all social programs that aid the destitute, children and seniors.
– they support privatizing of SS. Yes, why not give all that money to wall street bankers and see how much they charge you to manage your money versus the government. And when that money is gone, you are on your own.
– are against a national health care plan. They want to create private medical accounts instead.
– are against any laws that protect the enviornment. They view nature (God’s work) as something to ravage and a s a place to dump their poisons.
– high-jacked Jesus for themselves and demonized anyone who disagrees with them.
BTW, ” Stick this up your asses you liberal-commie-terrorist lovers. F you all.”, is not a Christian saying, but rather a neo-Christian saying.
I guess if it would have been written by a lib that would make it credible? You don’t even argue the facts, just go after the source. The Dems have taught you well, child.
1)minimum wage is vote buying. It only helps the politician, the low skilled worker, and no one else.
2)neither side has done this, moron.
3)this is what immigration is about, moron. Get the best people, not the scum.
4)Corporations do not pay taxes, their customers do,moron. The rich already pay way more taxes than most of America.
5)That is stupid, even coming from you.
You know, the more of your crap points I read, the more I realize why you don’t get what the article is about. INDIVIDUALS donating time and money. As a typical lib, you probably do little to help others, and demand the government do it all for you. That is what every one of your points are about, what can the government do for my sorry ass.
Where are your links to facts?
some more history that typical Libs don’t know about conservatives. They freed the slaves, not the Democrats. They also fought the Klan
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=1790
after shitting on the poor for so long, the Dems learned to buy their votes, whereas the Republicans tried to make the country a more prosperous place for all to get ahead in business.
That is why these two ying and yang. You have to have business for a country to prosper. One party helps them. The other party could only figure out how to buy the votes of those who don’t succed and those who blame America for everything.
I love you Mars Revolts and Rummy! These libs are absolutely sickening, creepy, people.
bjr,
What is wrong with privatizing SS? The plan is not to totally privatize it you nimwit. It’s to let people choose whether or not they want to take all or portions out. Me, I’d much rather have MY MONEY invested the way I want it invested. I could make far more money myself with MY MONEY than the government will ever give me back. That’s my decision. If I f*ck it up that’s my problem. That’s how it should be. I don’t have to take MY MONEY out if I don’t want to. bjr, you are a f8cknut.
bjr you jack ass,
I never noticed Never Wrong saying that he was a Christian. Nice assumption moron.
Actually, Arthur C Brooks, is/was a liberal. The website writer makes it clear at the beginning that Brooks was born and raised a liberal. I wonder why. Brooks writes: “For too long, liberals have been claiming they are the most virtuous members of American society.” Really, I have never heard Dems say or make claim to this. Odd he doesn’t site something to backup this bold statement. The Dems, as part of their political beliefs, believe that it is in a nation’s best interest to take care of its citizens, especially those who have the least.
“Still, he says it forcefully, pointing out that liberals give less than conservatives in every way imaginable, including volunteer hours and donated blood.” Really, I as a Dem, donate toys every year for needy children as well as donate food to food banks and even send in extra money on my monthly bill to the local power company for those families who are going through tough times. I have never, had anyone ask me what political affiliation and/or religious denomination I belong too. I have never heard of any blood bank asking in any way what your political and religious inclinations are in order for a person to donate blood. I’m tempted to get his book to see what sources he sites for this info.
This is a feel-good story for religious conservative republications who believe they are somehow better than others and even closer to Jesus. Funny how religious conservatives are the first to stand up and be counted as being religious but are the last to practice the church’s teachings.
The list that ended my last post had only to do with conservative republicans. I guess your anger and rage got the best of you.
“1)minimum wage is vote buying. It only helps the politician, the low skilled worker, and no one else.”
“3)this is what immigration is about, moron. Get the best people, not the scum.”
Your comments above indicate that your family supports you and that you have never had to support yourself by working. You degrade poor people in saying that minimum wage only affects the low skilled workers and no one else. As if low-skilled workers don’t count. You would be surprised by how many people have fallen from their careers and had to begin again from the bottom. Then you go after the skilled educated workers and refer to them as scum. The companies that hire these H1-B foreign workers do so only because they are a lot cheaper to higher and are given no benefits. These foreign workers are not better, only a lot cheaper. The company saves a bundle in wages and benefits and the American worker suffers.
In your America, low-skilled workers are a foot note or don’t count and educated skilled workers are scum. Tell me, who is it that is of worth in your America, asshole?
Dear potty-mouth,
If it is to be believed that SS will run out of money sometime in the future, following a plan that puts less money in SS, by allowing people to invest their SS funds in other ways, yet takes out the same amount of money from SS will only greatly speed up the process of de-pleading the SS fund. It is basic math.
Of course, this is the point. For once this is began, everyone will be weaned off of SS because the system will no longer be able to support itself. Only those who are currently collecting or close to retirement will remain in the SS system.
The younger workers will now have their money in private financial markets that will charge more to manage their money and be exposed to market fluctuations and have none of the benefits of SS. The older workers that are in SS, once they pass on, there will still be some sizable amount of cash in what is left of the old SS fund. What will come of this money?
If you really what control of your own money, don’t buy that new car, (given that you even work) and buy a used car. Go to the SS website and discover what SS is and the benefits it offers to the citizens of this great nation. Then you will understand the meaning the of SS system.