“When Apple uncharacteristically showed an early preview of its tentatively named iTV set top box, analysts of all stripes jumped to share their take on what the box is, what it will be able to do, and how it might change the landscape of TV,” Daniel Eran writes for RoughlyDrafted. “Here’s part one of the more entertaining bits of rampant speculation, which asked: Where’s the DVR?”
“Despite the fact that nothing in Apple’s demonstration or the released specs even hinted at recording TV, all the analysts wanted to know just how Apple planned to shove a DVR into this tiny box. Inconceivable! The DVR mystery was quite a puzzle. For starters, there’s no tuner, no video inputs, and no Firewire on the iTV. Considering that Apple invented Firewire, and that US FCC regulations require cable boxes to supply Firewire, it would seem reasonable that if the iTV were intended for recording TV, the idea of putting a Firewire port on the box would have occurred to Apple,” Eran writes.
“Apple apparently realizes that the DVR market is already well represented, fairly mature, and entirely profitless. Users might love their Tivos, but the company that makes them lost nearly $50 million this year as it struggles to shore up Tivo sales with experimental new popup advertising tests,” Eran writes. “Much like its WMA platform, Microsoft’s stab into the DVR world offers too little integration and too much complexity. It’s also too expensive and demands too much commitment from users. Predictably, it’s also selling about as well as Microsoft’s WMA gear.”
Eran writes, “Of course, Apple doesn’t need to introduce DVR capabilities to the Mac. Elgato Systems already ships a highly regarded DVR software package, and …also already uses the name EyeTV.”
Full article here.
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apple didnt invent firewire, and while we’re on it, that is just apples name for it, sony etc use other names, apple was however a large financial backer (as were sony / dell etc) for it.
Apple’s iTV: Where’s the DVR?
—————-
There is none, and there won’t be one because Apple sells TV content for $1.99 at the iTunes store. Releasing a product with a built-in DVR would kill their iTunes TV content business.
Hello, Mr. Obvious here. I’d just like to state that [obvious] and [apparent] will be happening this [obvious]. With regard to the [obvious], it’s [apparent] that [obvious] will be feature-for-feature [obvious] than the competition. [Obvious] specifications don’t really matter at this point, and that’s all we have to report [obvious] since we [obviously] don’t do much to make a living [apparently].
Goodbye [obviously].
i agree that at this point dvr could impact itunes sales, but even if you wanted dvr you wouldn’t add it to the itv.
iTV streams video from your mac. so your dvr would be there. on your mac.
bjf
andy – actually they did. It wasn’t entirely Apple. Apple, Sony and others were creating it as a whole.
the name Firewire is Apple’s. And actually, at hte beginning, was charging .25¢ per unit that was shipped using this name. That’s one of the reasons some manufactuers when with 1434E ( or whatever it was called ) and sony went with iLink.
This is exactly what I thought when his Steveness showed the “iTV”. It is perfect Apple design in that it does one thing and one thing only and does it very very well. If Apple added in DVR capability the “iTV” would very quickly start to look like a microshaft media center. Personally I don’t need nor want the complexity of a DVR when most of what I do is watch movies. The iTV appears to be the perfect solution to my ever growing “Wall-o-DVDs”.
well it has a hard drivem all it will need is an input or tuner for dvr functionality
dont forget that this product hasnt even been released yet…
where’s the beef?
“It’s in there!”
Let me answer
Where’s the DVR?”
First off, most HD content is going to be HDCP DRM encrypted in the US by 2008. So DVR ability is going bye bye.
“Despite the fact that nothing in Apple’s demonstration or the released specs even hinted at recording TV, all the analysts wanted to know just how Apple planned to shove a DVR into this tiny box. Inconceivable! The DVR mystery was quite a puzzle.
No DVR what so ever. The iTV is going to act just like a modern cable box with a hard drive inside, downloading movies and allowing you to watch it for a certain time, then self delete. Only difference is it will work over the internet instead over cable.
For starters, there’s no tuner
No tuner needed.
no video inputs
What the fsck is HDMI? moron. Look up HDMI for spec’s.
and no Firewire on the iTV. Considering that Apple invented Firewire, and that US FCC regulations require cable boxes to supply Firewire, it would seem reasonable that if the iTV were intended for recording TV, the idea of putting a Firewire port on the box would have occurred to Apple,” Eran writes.
Firewire is on cable boxes true, but it’s extremely difficult on Mac’s to utilize the Firewire for HD.
Also there is this problem with HDCP DRM chips not being on the recieving end of the Firewire cable.
The iTV is going to be a content delievery system integrated with FrontRow over the internet, it’s going to compete with the cable boxes.
The reason Steve jobs demo-ed it before release is to tempt Hollywood with a alternate to the cable monopolies.
I tried this and it’s a pain in the arse software is too old and one has to be a developer to get newer versions I believe. Worth your effort if interested.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2349&p=3
A DVR Tuner does not have to be big. A number of companies are making hybrid NTSC/PAL/HD tuners no larger than a V1 iPod Shuffle.
Great take Mr. Obvious,
I personally don’t want a Movie or TV collection on a hard drive, because:
1) I have to buy the hard drive
2) When the hard drive fills up, I have to delete Movie or TV shows I bought, or buy another hard drive
3) A hard drive is a mechanical device that receives no maintenance, and will fail eventually. So I have to back it up with…another hard drive.
So the inability to burn my purchased content to DVDs is a showstopper.
Now, if Apple went the rental model, where for 2 bucks you temporarily unlock a movie on a video vault on the internet and stream it to your big TV, THAT would be another story…Cheaper and faster than Blockbuster or Netflix, and potentially way more selection.
DVR is so last century. Why would anyone want to record broadcast programming when you can go to iTunes and pick it off the list and stream it. Perhaps this is where a subscription will come in? All the tv you can stream for one set price? Maybe Apple plans to dramatically increas their available shows and just bypass the whole DVR thing.
“oh and one more thing…the mac mini you have connected to your TV, it can be used as a DVR with our all new Front Row software”
FireWire is the name given to the external wired interface specified by the IEEE standard 1394. It is also known as i.Link or IEEE 1394.
This message has been brought to you by the letter K and the 4.
Corrections regarding FireWire origins and nomenclature.
And just to belabor the point –
From the 1394 Trade Association (http://www.1394ta.org/Technology/)
“History of the IEEE 1394 Standard
The 1394 digital link standard was conceived in 1986 by technologists at Apple Computer, who chose the trademark ‘FireWire’, in reference to its speeds of operation.”
Actually, Apple did invent FireWire back in the mid-90s. They just never actually used it.
Anyway, regarding the DVR, the other big issue with the DVR is that the gateway to the television world is generally owned by someone else–satellite or cable here in the U.S. It’s my understanding that the majority of television viewers here in the U.S. get their TV through satellite or cable and not through broadcast.
So while you might have a cool Apple DVR, you’re still going to hit the clunky cable interface if you decide to order a movie online. Once you go to the cable or satellite world, you lose the Apple interface.
Mr. Mac HD Man,
It was suggested that the HDMI is video OUT on this unit, but I supppose that we need more information. My HD cable box has HDMI, so maybe iTV is HDMI in.
However, as this pre-announcement is so unusual for Apple, I highly doubt that what was shown is what will actually be delivered when it is launched in any case.
Given the lenghty coverage of what seems to be missing on this unit, as well as the recent comments from those that have seen it (ie. Disney’s Bob Iger) concerning what is does have, such as a hard drive, one really gets the sense that there is a lot more to this than what was actually said.
Apple initiated Firewire design and development, but brought partners in early on so that it would not be a Mac-only technology. I know, i was working at Apple in an engineering capacity when it happened.
It would be cool if you could plug in one of those elgato usb stick tuners into the back.
To I WANT MY iTV:
Regarding the “complexity of a DVR,” have you seen/used a real-live Tivo? Unlike Windows Media Center and the knockoff DVR machines being pimped by cable operators, Tivo has a refined, elegant, and easy-to-use interface that I think is the closest thing to a Mac-like product ever to come from somebody other than Apple. (Front Row + DVR Recording = Tivo). I handed the remote from a newly-installed Tivo to my wife (who’s most definitely not a technophile) and she had it down cold in about ten minutes without ever cracking a user guide. As they say, it just works. That’s a big part of why this gizmo was referred to by FCC chairman and Tivo fan Michael Powell as “God’s Machine.”
Still, count me as one vote in favor of an Apple DVR solution of some kind. Especially since Tivo is STILL dragging their feet on the Mac version of their Tivo-To-Go software. Though I’m obviously a Tivo junkie, it’s always good to have more than one way to do something. And IMAO, the only company that could nail it as well as Tivo has is Apple.
MW: Order, as in “I’d order an Apple DVR solution in a heartbeat.”
-RG
“DVR is so last century. Why would anyone want to record broadcast programming when you can go to iTunes and pick it off the list and stream it. “
Because it’s free and it’s high def. Who wants to pay for crappy lo res copies of free TV shows?
“so maybe iTV is HDMI in.”
The it would have no HDMI out port, which would suck.
“Given the lenghty coverage of what seems to be missing on this unit”
its the iMediaCenterExtender. No magic, nothing new to see here.
“Still, count me as one vote in favor of an Apple DVR solution of some kind.”
Sure, Linux and Windows have had DVR solutions for years, it’d be nice to see Apple finally catch up in this area.
What the fsck is HDMI? moron. Look up HDMI for spec’s.
video I-N-P-U-T-S
A couple things:
From a design standpoint, it seems strange that they would choose a shape that matches nothing else in your electronics/TV cabinet, stand, etc. Makes it ugly as anything but a standalone device (which it wouldn’t be). This tells me either A) this isn’t the final form factor (in which case why show it?) or B) something else is going to be made to go with it (larger drive box, cable box, media box, mini, etc.) OR C) they just don’t want it to look nice with our existing hardware (Tivo, PVR, VCR, Cable box, etc.).
Is it just me? I’m not going to give up buying DVD or HD/BluRay disks for low-quality downloaded media that I pay extra for (or rent).
One last thing (slightly off-topic) – the subscription model is okay for some, but when I die I want my stuff to go to my kids. With a subscription model it evaporates instantly unless your progeny want to keep paying for it. I haven’t seen anyone mention that point yet. What do y’all think?
“Who wants to pay for crappy lo res copies of free TV shows?”
theya re 640 x 480.. thats better than STV..
terestrial HDTV isnt very wide-spread – itunes has hundreds of TV shows.
As long as its better than average, and affordable it will be the delivery method of choice.
“terestrial HDTV isnt very wide-spread – itunes has hundreds of TV shows.”
Surely you jest. I think the statistic is that 99% of US households can get at least one over the air HDTV station. Personally I get about a dozen, every major network.
check out http://www.antennaweb.org, you might be suprised.