Yesterday, we covered an article in which Paul Thurrott asserted that he had “little doubt that one could possibly configure a Dell workstation that undercuts a Mac Pro,” to which we responded, “Then do it. We’ll wait.” Well, the wait wasn’t very long. Paul got to work and first erroneously figured out the Dell was $1279 cheaper, then was chided repeatedly by the online community to fix his mistakes (some examples: here and here), eventually got it right, and in the process proved himself wrong.
“There’s been a lot of baloney published online about the pricing of Apple’s Mac Pro lately. I’ve had numerous emails from readers curious why I won’t ‘admit’ that the Mac Pro is not only competitive with a certain Dell workstation, but it’s actually quite a bit cheaper,” Paul Thurrott writes for Paul Thurrott’s Internet Nexus.
Thurrott reports, “Here’s what I did, and I think this is where most Mac Pro/Dell workstations comparisons go wrong. I tried to configure two nearly identical systems as cheaply as possible. That is, I upgraded the video card in each to be the same exact video card. I got the same hard drive. The same memory. The same processors. And I used the Dell workstation model that most closely matched the Mac Pro.”
Here’s how it came out:
Dell Precision Workstation 490 (32-bit) = $5,530
Apple Mac Pro = $4949
Apple price advantage = $581
“I won’t make any excuses here (though adding a display lowers the price difference), as my point orginally wasn’t to ‘prove’ that Dell was cheaper, only to logically compare the two systems in ways I don’t feel were done accurately online previously,” Thurrott writes. “So sure enough, you can configure an Apple workstation that is cheaper than a Dell. There you go.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Fool.
Related MacDailyNews article:
Thurrott: Apple Mac Pro ‘at least competitive and often cheaper’ than similarly configured Dell – August 17, 2006
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
what a Turdoh
A sphincter says- “what?”
He’ll never get it. It’s the OS fool!
Well, the one mistake he still makes is that the baseline video card that Apple provides can drive a 30-inch monitor well for most applications (see review from Anandtech). The problem with Dell is that if you downgrade the Quadro, you won’t save much. And the difference between Apple and Dell will result in another 300 bucks or so.
Are we doing a little backpedalling there, Paulie?
“So sure enough, you can configure an Apple workstation that is cheaper than a Dell. There you go.”
That’s pretty good but I’m waiting to hear him admit that you can’t configure an Apple to be more expensive than the dell. This statement makes it sound like it takes work to get the Apple to be cheaper, when in fact its the other way around. From all the figures I’ve seen as long as the computers are in the same league, the Mac Pro is less expensive.
At the dell website right now, the 2.0ghz quad Xeon is more expensive than the 2.66ghz Mac Pros. When you can increase your speed by 33% and save $100 why would you go with Dell?
Paul Turdrrott
Does anyone actually read his bubbling rambles?
What is that sound??? Oh, it’s the sound of Turdott grinding his teeth in seething anger. Get used to it, jackass! You have a long couple of years in front of you!
You save $500 AND get OS X? How could anyone pass that kind of deal up?
Lay off, (lemme ‘splain,)
He has made a HUGE first step – admitting that reality is not like he had imagined. It’s not hard to find plenty examples of people who tenaciously cling to their illusions despite all evidence to the contrary (try the AM dial, for example.)
I expect this truth will re-emerge in his consciousness repeatedly for a while – creeping into his thoughts while he’s driving, brushing his teeth, laying up at night staring at the ceiling.
I further predict that for Paul, using Windows won’t feel so good anymore. He’ll pick up a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, but eventually will stop using Boot Camp except for the odd review article. And OS X will remind him of the joy he felt with his first computer, when everything was fresh and new.
Someday Paul may become a huge force for lighting the way for the millions to leave behind their paths of self-destruction and switch.
Dell lost a lot of cost advantage when they let AMD into the mix. Poor Dell, boo hoo
What is hilarious is how painful this is for him. He is supposed to be objective, since he’s a reporter, and it’s so terribly OBVIOUS he is emotionally attached to one side. That’s where his credibility goes straight down the toilet.
Of course, Paulie fails to point out that the Dell is a 32-bit workstation, and in the future will be either 32-bit, OR 64-bit.
The Mac on the other hand, will be both a 32-bit AND A 64-bit workstation.
What’s the value of being able to run your legacy 32-bit apps alongside your new 64-bit apps, without performance loss?
Thurrott said he could configure a Dell cheaper than a Mac Pro desktop and he did. He only use a single processor configuration instead of two but he did get a cheaper Dell desk top.
Of course, if he had compared his Dell to a Mac mini it would have been more expensive. Equal configurations mean nothing to him. The mini is cheaper than the Dell he chose and it is a desktop. By Thurrott’s standards of comparison the mini wins.
He did not use a 64-bit Dell platform in his correction. He did not use an equivalent video card either. Still the Dell was more expensive.
See what Darling Fireball had to say about Jackass Thurrott
Hey guys, at least he can admit when he is wrong. We owe him a tiny smidge of respect for that. The ability to correct oneself in the media is the cornerstone of credibility. I would like to see MDN at least acknowledge that Paul has done the right thing for once (if only begrudgingly).
I think calling him a fool, after showing humility, is rather crass. Remember, we’re Mac Users and we take the high road. Save the snide remarks for the PC users who don’t know any better.
Loved that take, MDN.
Nice to see PT eat crow. Hilarious!
So what if the Dell monitor is cheaper? Just buy it instead of the Apple monitor. That’s what I did and it just works! (Like everything else on the Mac.)
Maybe looking at a Dell monitor would make Thurott feel less insecure.
I forwarded a copy of this article to Paul. I think it sums it up better than I could. He can now claim that his new site is award winning. Congratulations!
http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/jackass_paul_thurrott
I ask that everyone not use the phrase, “Macs are cheaper than Dells.” I cringe when I read that as nothing is cheaper than a Dell. Less expensive, yes. Cheaper, No!
Here’s the fun part of Apple computers being priced BELOW Dell computers.
Dell aggressively lowered prices to pick up market share against Hewlett/Packard. Well, the results are in AND, Dell did not gain any market share, BUT, they did lower profits by 51% on higher revenue.
Now the fun part is that Dell CANNOT lower prices any further (in fact they may have to raise them), which means that Apple has negated Dell’s ONLY market advantage.
Apple Computers are now not only superior in design, integration of hardware and software, and OS, but they are LESS EXPENSIVE as well.
Game, Set, Match.
What Thurrott should have said is this
“If you configure a Dell workstation to match the Mac Pro, it will cost more, but with a Dell you have the option to configure it with less features and add your own when your ready from the endless supply of third party companies. Something you can’t do with Apple product. Take for instance the lack of third party PCI video cards, I rest my case.”
As usual all Thurrot proves is that he’s a bonehead.
MDN:
I think you spelled it wrong… it’s “Tool” with a “T” not an “F”
mac myths debunked…
more expensive (now cheaper)… check
incompatible (now based on standards and same hardware)….. check
no software (can run mac and windows software)…… check
The only thing they really have now is that windows has a larger market share. That is the only arguement. Steve has really taken out all of the barriers to entry for the mac platform.
I think Intel is using Apple as its cat’s paw to buy back into the server business. Apple is now the one significant computer company that uses Intel CPUs exclusively in its computers. Any win for the Apple Macintosh is a win for Intel. I have to suspect that Intel and Apple have agreed to lower margins on the CPUs for the Mac Pro and also for the Mac Pro itself. Intel gains by getting back the market it has been losing to the Opteron. Apple gains by getting switchers for its high end products, especially in corporations. Intel and Apple are playing a win/win game.
I can hardly wait to hear about corporations switching to the Mac Pro, even if it is only intended to run Windows. Experiments will then naturally take place running OS X. And we know what happens next.
Alec,
nice one.
He’s not including windows 64.
Add $130 to the mac for 10.5, and add windows 64.
The price diff gets even more extreme.
Holy crap that guy is a moron and flat out douche. Even in losing he doesn’t really admit he is wrong.
‘Thurrott’ and ‘Fool’ gets you 28,000 pages….
goddamnit MDN, quit quotin this guy, he is irrelevant…stick to real news.
Love the MDN take. Best ever.
It is nice to see Paul finally pony up to the truth. However it was only after he was called out on his B.S. by numerous people. All in all, by the tone of the updated article it seems that while he may have admitted being wrong he still doesn’t buy it, deep down… Reality can be hard for some people.
Heya Lobster, you say “So sure enough, you can configure an Apple workstation that is cheaper than a Dell. There you go.“
You got it wrong, as usual.
The real thing is YOU CAN’T configure a DELL that is less expensive than a Mac Pro. You pay MORE and you get LESS.
Got it finally?! And as usual you proved once again how your head is full of shit.
Give Paul a break; he is grieving.
He went through denial with the first reports on OS X on Intel results by trying to refute every one of them. Later, he got angry and frustrated at those who spread the results. Now he is bargaining to see if he can lessen the loss by trying to find scenarios that make the price difference invalid. Soon we will not see Paul for a while as he enters depression. Finally, he will reach acceptance and you will start seeing reports from his “Supersite for Mac OS X.”
But wait, “Paul Thurrott’s SuperSite for Windows is dedicated to providing all of the information you need to evaluate Microsoft’s upcoming Windows platform technologies. This Web site provides continuous updates about these future Windows platform products and related technologies, while offering reviews and technology showcases, all designed to give you the information you need to decide which upcoming Windows version is for you.”
Supersite for Mac OS X would never work. Apple doesn’t release info about future versions and we don’t need Paul to help us decide which 1 version of Leopard is right for us. No wonder he’s so biased.
Besides, Paul switches back and forth on his opinion of Apple so often that his writing doesn’t matter. I read him to watch his misery.
And then of course, you could always configure the stock MacPro with the comparable Dell 690 with 2.66ghz processors.
Apple come in about $1000 less
you can now buy macbooks with windows preinstalled.
http://www.macmall.com/macmall/families/macbook/
Look at it from a business standpoint, it will sell more macs and AAPL will go up…
The Dell should be configured with a 20″ widescreen display to match the Apple 20″ Cinema Display.
The Mac Pro will be cheaper even more.
you can now buy macbooks with windows preinstalled.
———
….You’ve been able to do that since Boot Camp was introduced….. Not from Apple though…
Hey c’mon guys, at least he’s not INSANE like Enderle
Paul Thurott has never been know for an intelligent article.
it’s funny to see someone be such an enthusiast for a such a third-rate corporate piece of crap like windows.
well we should also add software cost.
does the dell have any usable software?
Ah pity da FOOL who believes anything dis FOOL THURROTT writes. Dat boy needs a serrus Whoopin’!!
Well… Mr Thurrott is reading “Outlaw of Gor” and watching “The Matador”. He is used to 5th rate thinking.
I pitty the foo!!!
Thurrott reminds me of some people I work with. These individuals are not simply reluctant to examine the facts; they are actively hostile to objective analysis. I am convinced that some people are so closed-minded, small-minded, and willfully ignorant that any attempt to correct their misconceptions is a futile effort. I wouldn’t expect Thurrott to admit to anything that disturbs his superficial world of self-perpetuating idiocy and prejudice.
I NEVER read anything he writes. It’s the principal of the thing…
MW: came, as in… past tense of… nevermind
I don’t care what the price difference is and I don’t care “how small mac market share is”. I don’t want 50MB of ram and 25% of CPU time taken up by anti-virus, anti-spyware and anti-spam software. End of story. Not only that, I choose quality applications rather than quantity. I don’t care how many business apps there are for the Windows market. I don’t need MS SQL or some obscure time clock application.
I use the mac to perform my every-day tasks without worry and use applications that allow me to be a more creative individual. Like Final Cut Pro as an example. So there you have it.
Gee, Thurrott admits being wrong when it’s laid out for him like that? Could he possibly be developing some kind of grasp of the obvious?
-jcr
Paul is qualified to be a tech writer because he stayed in a Holiday Inn Express the night before.
Why do you continue to give idiots like this column inches.
Hes a fool, let him be a fool on his own time.
You must be familier with the old saying …..
On the Journey through life never take an idiot with you, you can always pick one up when you get there
Annoyed
“On the Journey through life never take an idiot with you, you can always pick one up when you get there.”
Too bad Laura Bush didn’t get that advice.
Two weeks ago, I bought:
(Asus) Mainboard (800 Mhz) (onboard audio and network (2 ‘wired’, 1 WLAN))
(AMD) CPU X2 4.6 Ghz
2 Gb RAM
300 Gb Harddisk
(nVidia) 512 Mb Graphics card
DVD writer/reader
(Be quiet) 400 W power supply
Brand-less case with room for 3 more hard drives, 2 more CD/DVD drives, 2 more RAM cards and two more graphic cards, should I ever feel the need for more)
MS Windows XP SP2 OEM
A true gaming monster, they don’t come much faster.
I had someone build it, for those €50 I couldn’t be arsed assembling it myself.
This whole setup cost me:
€1400. I already had them, but for fun let’s throw in wireless mouse and keyboard (€50) and a 19″ TFT screen (€300) (both can be had cheaper, but let’s not pinch pennies).
Grand total: a beast like that costs €1750
Don’t let yourself be ripped off by Dell or any other PC manufacturer – PCs are to be had much cheaper than from ‘A’ brands, also if you use ‘class A’ components.
Go ahead, compare away, you won’t beat this price/performance with any ‘A’ brand, be it Mac, Dell or whatever other famous name.
Ah, the old “Republicans are dumb” meme. Funny how that’s been the same political analysis from the Left ever since the late ’60’s. But why bother with making a rational argument when you can just call someone a name? Better yet, throw a pie, throw dung, or strip off your clothes! *rollseyes* And again, if dumb people keep beating you in nearly every election, just how smart are you? The obvious answer is that your intelligence is a self-congratulatory illusiary feel-good delusion aimed at papering over your moral relativism.
I configured an Alienware MJ-12 8550i and a Mac Pro with similar components. The Alienware came out to $6,661 and the Mac Pro came out to $4,499.