Dell plunged 15% to $18.72 in pre-market Inet trading after saying it expected fiscal second-quarter earnings of 21 to 23 cents a share, below the average analyst estimate compiled by Thomson First Call of 32 cents a share, due primarily to aggressive pricing in a slowing commercial market.
The Round Rock, Texas-based Dell now sees earnings of 21 to 23 cents a share for the July period on revenue of about $14 billion.
Current market values:
• Apple – $51,064,500,320
• Dell – $44,447,732,640
MacDailyNews Take: If Dell ceased to exist today – say Michael Dell sold the company and gave the money back to the shareholders – nobody outside the company would care. Another Windows box assembler would simply slide into place and the mediocrity would continue unabated.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Survey shows big jump in consumer interest in buying Apple Mac; Dell takes steep slide – July 06, 2006
The Wired 40: Apple #2, Microsoft drops to #36, Dell falls off list – June 28, 2006
Dell laptop explodes into flames at Japanese conference – June 21, 2006
Time Magazine on Apple’s 13-inch MacBook: ‘Dell and HP should be very worried’ – June 07, 2006
The Channel Insider: Dell is no Apple – May 31, 2006
Will Dell’s retail computer stores work sans inventory? – May 30, 2006
Dell to open retail stores – May 22, 2006
Dell burned by selling machines at bargain-basement prices last quarter, pain may not be over – May 09, 2006
Dell warns 1Q earnings will miss mark; shares tumble – May 08, 2006
Apple passes Dell in market value – May 02, 2006
The Motley Fool: Apple ‘may be the next Dell’ – April 07, 2006
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
Payback? Wall Street didn’t like Apple passing Dell in market value – February 09, 2006
Apple Mac is #1 in European education market, pushes Dell down into second place – February 03, 2006
BusinessWeek: How can Apple be worth more than Dell? – January 20, 2006
Steve Jobs emails Apple team: Michael Dell not the best prognosticator, Apple worth more than Dell – January 16, 2006
Apple now worth more than Dell – January 13, 2006
Apple primed to pass Dell in market value – January 12, 2006
Corporate IT buyers fuming that Apple has Intel Core Duo Macs shipping while Dell and HP wait – January 12, 2006
Financial Times: Dell and Microsoft can never hope to attain Apple’s Mac aura – January 10, 2006
Struggling Dell has lost its mojo while Apple shows rapid growth – November 07, 2005
Apple growing faster with more innovative products, better support than ‘one-trick pony’ Dell – November 01, 2005
IDC: Apple shows rapid growth, holds 4.3% U.S. market share on 48% growth – October 17, 2005
Michael Dell say’s he’d be happy to sell Apple’s Mac OS X if Steve Jobs decides to license – June 16, 2005
Why buy a Dell when Apple ‘Macintel’ computers will run both Mac OS X and Windows? – June 08, 2005
Apple Macs are less expensive than Dell PCs – April 25, 2005
Dell CEO: Apple can’t just have one product and then say they’re the innovative leader of the world – February 22, 2005
BusinessWeek: Rather than dismissing Apple products as fads, Dell should try starting a few – January 31, 2005
Dismissive Dell CEO not impressed with Apple Mac mini, calls iPod a ‘one-product wonder’ and a ‘fad’ – January 17, 2005
Michael Dell owes Apple an apology; Apple up 176 percent vs. Dell’s 13 percent in past 12 months – January 15, 2005
“rollout of Windows platforms to well over 10000 seats”
Second thought, don’t go there. They’ll probably have you killed to keep this wonderful knowledge, of how to instantly replace all Microsoft Windows PCs with Macs, from the world.
You’re current the biggest threat to Windows dominance on the planet. be careful.
If Apple disappeared tomorrow, Windows development would become even slower than it is now, if not nonexistent. Microsoft only “innovates” when it’s forced to (look at IE), and when it does it relies on Apple for most of its ideas.
That’s why Apple is driving the PC industry.
HIMSELF SAID:
=====
BUT: the truth is, (sinse I work for Apple in one of their stores), we don’t work on commission, and we…
=====
If you work for Apple, you need to go back and get re-trained on company policy regarding outside communications. FYI.
“Microsoft only “innovates” when it’s forced to (look at IE), and when it does it relies on Apple for most of its ideas.”
I’d say that Microsoft continually looks at where it’s strong and weak compared to the competition and integrates good ideas other people have.
Likewise other people, Apple included, rip off Microsoft’s ideas.
And I’d agree Microsoft respond quickly to threats, and at their own pace when no threat exists. But it’s hard to argue with that as a business practice, focusing attention where you need to.
Apple’s situation is that they’re continually under threat, a few wrong steps and they’re dog-meat, the iPod’s big growth years are behind it, and the Mac doesn’t really offer anything people can’t get with Windows.
In the browser space, it’s Firefox that’s had the big effect, and before them Netscape, not Apple.
But Microsoft’s product line is huge and goes well beyond Windows and a browser, and Apple’s effect on most of those products is completely non existent.
In any case, it’s well established that Apple wasn’t the source of most of it’s ideas, they just “borrowed” or licensed other people’s ideas.
We’re still looking for that one true Apple invention (other than firewire), and still looking for one made this year. Heck I’d settle for one in the last couple of years.
@SteveJack >
Actually, to my shame, I was used by a major oil company because my Mac knowledge enabled them to work out how to move away from Macs. But if I didn’t do it, somebody else would have done and the money looked better in my bank account. After that, I just got a reputation for rescuing difficult projects that were encountering resistance.
With every post, you reveal yourself as someone who knows very little about the “real” world of IT as well as being a bit of a “bait and switch” merchant who never addresses the issues put to you.
The client on the desk in corporate environments is largely interchangable: most users have no specialist application, although there is possibly a “line of business” app like CRM or ERP which is increasingly published through a Web front-end. And a significant proportion of the remainder are based on terminal emulation environments (like 3270 or VT220).
So what we’re talking about is Office: Office is available on a Mac, and is – arguably – better on a Mac as it focusses on genuine user needs rather than a bunch of meaningless bloat that nobody in an average company – remember that the average company in the US has around 35 employees and the average in the UK is around 18 – will ever deploy or learn to use. Then the only “advantage” that Windows has is Exchange/Outlook, which – given the size of the average company – would probably be bettered served by Kerio’s MailServer running on OS X server. Even so, I could use Entourage or other tools to get to Exchange servers whilst migrating them to a less predatory environment.
If I want to implement a typical 25-user system (file/print/e-mail/web server/DBMS), I can do it more cheaply on a fully Macintosh network than I can on a Windows network (largely because of MSFT’s predatory CAL costs) so not only can I purchase a more solidly engineered system with better inate security, but I can also pay less for it. Also, by using a Macintosh core, I can support both Windows and Mac clients as equals – something that MSFT’s Small Business Server singularly fails to achieve as much by crude marketing-led design as anything else.
There is – to finish off this tiresome argument – nothing that a Windows machine can do that a Macintosh can’t do, except possibly act a a source of spambots, a target for spyware, adware and viruses. However, if you want a Windows system to do the same things as a Mac, you have a problem…
How do you ensure the security of Windows system, without spending more time and/or money?
How do you offer Windows users with special needs the same universal access tools as a Mac, without spending more money?
As for your comment about the removal of Windows systems causing chaos, you have to balance that against the chaos that they cause: back in November 2004, a routine Systems Management Server job at the UK’s Department of Work and Pensions left 80,000 civil servants without their computers and they had to resort to writing out cheques by hand to benefit claimants. Whilst this was mainly the fault of systems admin staff, the paucity of security in the Windows architecture means that staff have to execute more patches with greater frequency thus increasing the risk of a major outage.
And if you’re looking for an Apple invention in the last twelve months, try this.
And if you don’t believe that is a world-changing patent, God forbid you should ever suffer from a crippling attack of arthritis that renders you unable to press a button, flick a switch or turn a control knob.
“nothing that a Windows machine can do that a Macintosh can’t do, “
I beg to differ. Outside the core apps like the office suite, email, web browsing there are thousands of applications only available for the PC.
Have you ever tried to run any of thousands of vertical market business applications, do serious CAD on a Mac, any form of electronic design, run a CNC machine, develop software for embedded electronics, control a manufacturing plant, run any of the thousands of little “Glue” apps that people build to do things in VB or Access with data from those ERP systems? The list just goes on and on.
I didn’t think so.
Could you rewrite anything on the Mac platform, or port it? Sure. Could you migrate to similar apps on other Unix platforms? in some cases, yes. But that’s not the point. Today it’s not a direct substitute.
So while I agree there’s a large number of things you can just switch over, you can’t switch everything. But coming from Mac to PC you can. A Mac’s capability is a subset of the PC’s.
Security on Windows desktops is easily achieved by the competent. You can’t blame Windows for the incompetent acts of British civil servants (Is there a more technologically incompetent group of people anywhere else in the world, the UK civil service in particular and the UK in general? Well somewhere probably there is but you have to look hard)
And based on your responses I doubt you had the level of senior involvement in the projects that you claim to have had, nor worked in any major role in any large IT shop. It sounds like you put together small networks for small businesses. In that case I agree, where they only want generic productivity apps, web browsing or terminal emulation, not specific vertical market apps, you can do the job with a Mac.
“bit of a “bait and switch” merchant who never addresses the issues put to you.”
I keep bringing people back to the initial points I made, not irrelevant side issues, but nevertheless, give me the concise list of things you think I’ve missed addressing and I’ll respond.
Just as a reminder the initial position put forward was that if Apple faded from the scene, people would be able to switch to other products and get on with life without major disruption, and that I do not dispute that the same is true of Dell.
As Cramer would say…BOTTOM LINE….
STEVE JACK HAS QUITE OBVIOUSLY NEVER USED MAC OSX OR ILIFE OR FINAL CUT PRO OR KEYNOTE OR BONJOUR IN ANY SERIOUS WAY
(sorry, playing around with a Mac for a couple hours does not sufficiently demonstrate its life changing ability and efficiency to get your work done in the most seamless way compared with the alternative)
newton’s right — guy’s probably never really worked with a Mac for any length of time. that’s why he’s ignorant.
and ignorance is a “terrible shame. terrible, terrible shame.”
“major disruption” is a vague and subjective term. people could always “switch” to other products — I’m sure some people switch to or from an iPod every day — but the ease of use and seamless nature of the Mac experience can’t be duplicated on Windows — just like you can’t duplicate the security problems of a PC on an inherently more secure Mac. both would cause major disruptions to millions of users of Macs and millions more who use iPods. the disruptions might not last for several months, but definitely longer than any disruption caused by Dell going away — which would probably resonate for a week, tops. they make the same exact things as many other companies, so, just order from any of more than a dozen other sources. only Apple makes Macs and iPods.
ease of use, seamlessness and hella better security trump “switching to something else without major disruption” every time.
The majority of users in the world don’t use CNC machines, and you’re being a disingenuous fuckwit for trying to change your argument again. It’s the 80/20 rule – 80% of users use 20% of the available functionality of a machine. most users in a given organisation are – as likely as not – administrators in sales, marketing, HR and accounts, they neither require nor understand CNC machines or CAD programs.
Another thing you should possibly learn to do is some more research: have you read this release? No, why would you stuck in your own little world of ignorance.
As a question: If security is so easily achieved, how come Microsoft have been so singularly incapable of building it in at source? Maybe – by your own standards – they’re incompetent. So – to sum up your position – we should entrust our computing future to people who are incompetent. Interesting logic. Do you aspire to a career in IT support once you stop flipping burgers? Because that’s the only justification for that kind of reasoning.
Of course, your argument is specious: nobody would ever propose or expect all the machines running Windows be replaced overnight. Given time and appropriate porting of Visual Basic into REAL Basic and C-based code into the Mac’s own development tools, Windows has nothing that the AVERAGE company couldn’t replace in a Mac environment in less than six months and nothing that an Enterprise class customer couldn’t replace in 18 months given political will and a budget. Of course, it would cost money to implement – but seeing as you could afford to fire 80% of your IT support staff, you’d probably be quids in within three years.
And just as a reminder that you’re a smug, self-satisfied cretin with no sense of history, let’s first of all remember that the Web to which you’re posting was created by a British scientist working on assignment to a European atomic research organisation. Let’s also remember that the SMS screw-up was the fault of EDS, which is – as far as I remember as a former contract supplier – an American company (actually the stupidity there is in retaining EDS to do anything anywhere). BTW, if the British are so technically incompetent, how come so many of the senior positions at Lockheed’s SkunkWorks are or have been filled by Brits. But then again, we did invent the jet engine. How come the UK is the centre of gravity for the motorsport industry? And why is the UK in the forefront of genetic research, whilst the US thrashes about deciding whether to re-run the Scopes trial.
As a closing point, it should also be noted that various US institutions have had problems with Windows, including – IIRC – some functions of the FAA, which is just where I’d want issues.
BTW, nice try with the trolling calling my professional record into question: I have references from my customers commending the work my company has executed in the past: I can provide proof of being the PM for 2650 clients migrated to Windows 2000 in 28 weeks, including application testing of over 150 “non-standard” applications, a project which won several awards from the Corporate community here in the UK. So bite me.
“STEVE JACK HAS QUITE OBVIOUSLY NEVER USED MAC OSX OR ILIFE OR FINAL CUT PRO OR KEYNOTE OR BONJOUR IN ANY SERIOUS WAY”
The point is substitutes for all these apps exist. These are not things that make a Mac indispensable.
“the disruptions might not last for several months,”
And you’re right. You seem to be agreeing with my initial point. People would pick up other products, they would get on with life.
“ease of use, seamlessness and hella better security trump “switching to something else without major disruption” every time.”
These are somewhat intangible things, which are still the subject of much debate as to whether those proposed Mac advantages actually exist or not outside the minds of Mac users. But even if you turned out to be right, you’re balancing that against an 100% inability to get things done because the corresponding app doesn’t exist. As noted the Mac has a subset of PC capability.
Is Photoshop on a PC harder to use than Photoshop on a Mac? Does the switch even require much thought? Please…. is ILife the best suite of apps to do the job it does, or even suitable for professional business use for anything? Nope.
Are most Windows users plagued by viruses to the point where the can’t get work done? Only in the minds of Mac users.
Would Apple users just switch to ordering PCs and the PC versions of the Apps they use today, and get on with life? Sure they would.
So basiclym you get 45% of Apple earning per share but a share price is just 30% of Apple – that’s a 50% more income per buck invested, pretty good deal.
Except they also seem to exist in the mind of many commentators.
Didn’t one of the anti-virus companies recently endorse the Mac as a better platform from a security perspective?
And doesn’t the US Government (I think the DoJ or the FBI or somesuch) specifically mandate the usage of Macintoshes for ‘secure’ applications, whilst specifically forbidding the use of Windows for those same purposes.
And where precisely is the Windows equivalent of Bonjour, other than in Apple’s release of Bonjour for Windows. Please don’t say UPnP because the two things aren’t even close. Where is the Windows equivalent of Spotlight? Or Expose? Where is the Microsoft equivalent of Xgrid or Xsan?
BTW, how’s Vista coming along – still going to make its 20th or 200th revised shipping date? Or is it going to be late, sorry later.
And I think you’ll find a Windows machine has subset of a Macintosh’s functionality. If I have a Mac, I can run Macintosh natively, as well as running Solaris, Unix, X11, Windows, Linux and what have you in an application box. If I have Windows, I might be able to do a lot of that – but I can’t run Mac OS, so – as a computing Swiss Army Knife – the Macintosh wins again.
And you still haven’t answered my point: if Dell are doing such a bang-up job, why has their market cap declined by over 50% in around 15 months whilst Apple’s has increased by 50% over the same period. Maybe you should be applying for a job and sharing your executive expertise. That should get rid of them a little quicker.
“the disruptions might not last for several months,”
And you’re right. You seem to be agreeing with my initial point. People would pick up other products, they would get on with life.
NO, he also wrote “…but definitely longer than any disruption caused by Dell going away.”
Stop parsing text.
“ease of use, seamlessness and hella better security trump “switching to something else without major disruption” every time.”
These are somewhat intangible things, which are still the subject of much debate as to whether those proposed Mac advantages actually exist or not outside the minds of Mac users.
No, they’re not. YOU say they are, but that’s how we’ve determined your ignorance with regard to the issue.
Is Photoshop on a PC harder to use than Photoshop on a Mac?
Yes, it is. As one example, color correction, matching, and consistency (crusial to effective Photoshop use) are much, much harder to achieve (some say nearly impossible) on a PC than on a Mac. That’s not a subjective datapoint.
Does the switch even require much thought?
See above answer.
Please…. is ILife the best suite of apps to do the job it does…
Your ignorance of things Macintosh is further revealed — it’s iLife, not ILife. And yes, in its market space it probably IS the best suite of app’s for the job.
…or even suitable for professional business use for anything?
Straw man.
Would Apple users just switch to ordering PCs and the PC versions of the Apps they use today, and get on with life?
I believe it’s already been stated that no company is an island. That’s not being argued. Rather, it’s the EASE with which people could “get on with life”. You keep downplaying it — or not even addressing it — because quantifying the EASE against the fact that it could be done at all disproves your position.
“The majority of users in the world don’t use CNC machines, and you’re being a disingenuous fuckwit for trying to change your argument again.”
The majority don’t make Final Cut Pro movies either. but just about every manufactured object in your house relied on a CNC machine (for prototypes, tooling or actual manufacture) or CAD program at some point. So it does affect your life in a very significant way.
It’ll affect it much more than if your iPod vaporized.
“how come Microsoft have been so singularly incapable of building it in at source?”
They continue to improve. Unix wasn’t secure for it’s first 30 or 40 years either, still has problems. Note my argument wasn’t that Windows is perfectly secure. That’s an example of a distraction on your part.
“have you read this release?”
A link to a as yet unreleased product. Yep, lets all switch from stable proven tools to the beta program for this product. You’re a smart IT consultant. Give me more good advice.
“PM for 2650 clients migrated to Windows 2000 in 28 weeks”
Sounds like a lot less than 10,000. And was it from Mac to Windows or Windows NT to Windows 2000?
Anyway as I noted, claiming to be the best at something in the UK isn’t jumping a very high bar.
You can always find a few bright spots, but for the most part Technology Leadership and UK parted ways a long time ago (Don’t know if it was before or after invention of the gas turbine jet engine 70 years ago, and seem to remember The Germans also manged to independently develop the same thing and certainly managed to actually use it for something first).
Nobody doubts that the UK had a golden age for science, but that was a long time ago.
“Windows has nothing that the AVERAGE company couldn’t replace in a Mac environment in less than six months and nothing that an Enterprise class customer couldn’t replace in 18 months given political will and a budget.”
Don’t disagree, but now we’re apparently requiring 18 months, a desire to do it, and the budget, not just a trivial swap. Whereas a vendor can stop buying Dells one day and start buying HPs the next with very few issues.
C’mon. Tell me you can get the board of a large public company to approve a switch from Dell to Apple as easily as you can get them to approve a switch from Dell to HP.
If Dell disappeared, you can bet that people’s first thoughts wont be “Gee, we’ve always been thinking about Macs, now’s the time to migrate”…
MCCFR — “Maybe you should be applying for a job and sharing your executive expertise. That should get rid of them a little quicker.”
Ouch!
@ Lack >
It’s only really a deal if the buggers pay dividends or use the money to buy back stock and reduce dilution. If the share price keeps declining against a declining share count, a loss is just a loss.
From above:
Funky Dunky: “If Dell went away tomorrow there would be barely a hiccup from the public or the tech world, since they bring nothing to the table except low-priced commodity boxes. A “specialty” which can be easily and quickly filled by dozens of other manufacturers.”
Darren: “Dude, Apple’s absence would be noticed way more than Dell’s. Sure everyone would adapt, that’s life, but Wall Street and iPod users and even the media would feel a big loss for quite awhile longer than if they suddenly lost Dell and their Dell Dimension XZV5800-TL or whatever.”
River: “the disruptions might not last for several months, but definitely longer than any disruption caused by Dell going away — which would probably resonate for a week, tops. they make the same exact things as many other companies, so, just order from any of more than a dozen other sources. only Apple makes Macs and iPods.”
And now . . .
SteveJack…: “Whereas a vendor can stop buying Dells one day and start buying HPs the next with very few issues.”
“probably IS the best suite of app’s for the job.”
There’s NO WAY that iLife’s Apps are even close to the leading products in their categories.
Are you defining the job as crappy low end home photo editing and management, movie, web page and music creation done on an Apple Mac?
But again it’s irrelevant. Perfectly acceptable sustitutes exist, people would switch and get on with their lives.
Pathetic, what’s your point? Everybody’s saying the same thing. A Dell PC is easily replaced by any other PC.
The only point of contention is whether an Apple PC is easily replaced by any other PC.
^ Ignoring all of my other points. Again, parsing text. Tsk tsk tsk.
You said, ” . . . is ILife [sic] the best suite of apps to do the job it does… ?”
I said, ” . . . in its market space it probably IS the best suite of app’s for the job.”
You asked for a “suite” of app’s. iLife is such a product. A suite. Please point out a competing suite of app’s on the Windows side designed purposely to do the same thing.
Also, your comments about iLife’s operational effectiveness reveal your lack of experience with the actual product.
And now you say, “Perfectly acceptable sustitutes exist …”
“Perfectly acceptable” is somehow equal to an award-winning suite of applications renowned for their ease of use?
NOT!!!!!!!!!
Pathetic is right. You are.
@SteveDork: “The only point of contention is whether an Apple PC is easily replaced by any other PC.”
And they’re not. Which, like most PC users, you’d understand if you had ever actually used one.
Excellent, lets get this straight. If iLife disappeared tomorrow you can’t think of a single way to get the same jobs done?
Personally I beleive anyone who’s serious about any one of those things that iLife does already isn’t using iLife to do it.
Ken the Wanker said “And they’re not. Which, like most PC users, you’d understand if you had ever actually used one.”
Ok, specifics please. What can you do with your Mac that you can’t do with a PC. Please don’t say something like be more loyal to Apple.
Wow, what a tool.
2650 was one project for which I know I still have the references to hand.
There were another 7500 seats done in around five or six projects.
As for touting unreleased products, one word: VISTA. I was merely providing proof that Apple continues to attract ISVs, they already have IMSI and numerous other CAD products, now they’re going to have another CAE product. Whereas your camp is actually trying to sell the benefits of VISTA when it hasn’t even got a solid shipping date and is probably some nine months from delivery at the very minimum.
Don’t disagree, but now we’re apparently requiring 18 months, a desire to do it, and the budget, not just a trivial swap. Whereas a vendor can stop buying Dells one day and start buying HPs the next with very few issues.
Which I believe was the original point of the article. Dell could – indeed should – disappear from view in around five years, it has not one single unique selling proposition. And indeed HP could take their slack, as could your smarter elder brother (I’m assuming your still not of an age where you can use a soldering iron without a supervising adult). Or the company could be smart and buy a Mac, get all of the benefits of that platform and still have access to Windows. Which is a unique selling proposition. If you don’t understand that concept, go take Marketing 101 or whatever. And you still haven’t answered my question: If Dell are so good at what they do, why is their market value sliding so precipitously.
The only person who put up the ‘straw man’ Windows systems disappearing overnight argument was you. So, given the fact that (sadly) it won’t disappear overnight, the realistic argument is that it would take a major enterprise 18 months to move from Windows to Mac just as it took the corporate I mentioned previously around 18 months to move from Mac to Windows. Curiously it also cost several hundred million dollars globally, and it probably never generated the much vaunted savings given that support staff had to be increased in every site – one site in West London went from a team of twenty to well over one hundred. And where there was a second-line team of two servicing the needs of over 1000 Mac users, suddenly there was a team of twelve supporting 2000 users, plus a first-line that went from two to around ten. Sounds like a bargain to me.
BTW, coming from a country where George W Bush can be President (so long as Dick tells him its OK), I would be careful about making comments about high bars if I were you. How are your Enron shares? Or your Worldcom shares? Obviously, if being a lying, cheating scumbag carried some form of award, Messrs. Lay and Ebbers would be the best in the world. But then the bar in your country is so low.