“Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company ‘scrambles’ to fix internal problems a Microsoft insider has confirmed,” David Richards reports for Smarthouse News. “In an effort to meet a deadline of the 2007 CES show in Las Vegas Microsoft has pulled programmers from the highly succesful Xbox team to help resolve many problems associated with entertainment and media centre functionality inside the OS. The team are also working closely with engineers from the Intel Viiv team. and it is now expected that the next version of Viiv could be delayed to line up with the launch of the consumer version of Vista at the 2007 CES Show in Las Vegas.”
“One of the key components of the consumer version of Vista is the Media Centre code. This will be an optional package in the same way that Microsoft currently sell a Professional and Home version of XP. With Vista there will not be a seperate Media Centre SKU,” Richards reports. “Microsoft has also admitted that it has major problems in it’s Windows division and has has immediatly initiated a total restructure of the division, a move that comes after a costly delay in rolling out its Vista program.”
Full article along with the text of an internal memo written by Kevin Johnson the Co-President of the Windows division here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “mango” for the heads up.]
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Excuse me while I snicker.
All I can say is wow. MS has a Copeland on their hands.
what is the half-life ?
So they pulled people from the Xbox team (which still screwed up– look at the glitches in the 360) to fix up Windows? Good move, real smart. Get the console people to fix PCs.
Amazing……..I think the ship has a huge hole in it……
MDNews Magic Word: “Hotel” as in “I want to get a Hotel in Redmond to watch the action”
*crickets*
is anyone too shocked?
Way to go mango!
I think a lot of what’s mentioned in the article has to do with the Trusted Computing chip being cracked so easily.
(Apple used it to supposely lock Mac OS X to hardware and of course it failed)
Apple is most likely hard at work with a stronger lock for their OS, just we don’t hear about what Apple’s up to internally all that much.
But I’m sure Microsoft will not make their deadline, on top of that, there will be years of bugs because of the legacy kernel still being supported.
This, combined with Office 2007 being delayed, if Apple seriously invaded the enterprise market they could make serious market share gains.
Of course Intel would limit processor production and slow Apple up.
WinTel Alliance, got to love working with the devil.
Hey Bill and Steve: just trash the whole thing and save everyone the trouble…
60%? This must be the “amazing wave of innovation!”
Five years later, one rewrite and 60% incomplete and they expect it to ship in January?! Yeah, right. In what fairy tale land is that going to happen? They could get all the programmers in the world to code 24 hours a day for the next 6 months and they would not have come one step closer to approaching the fit and finish of OS X. Gosh, I hate Windows.
I get the sneaking suspicion that this cluster*#!! will somehow adversely affect MS Office for the Mac out of pure bitterness. I can see Monkey Boy Ballmer jumping up and down like a crazed lunatic in the Mac Business unit stoming on Macs and boxed versions of Office for Mac hollering at the top of his lungs as he drags MSBU developers by the hairy armload kicking and screaming to the abysmal Windows development building. Heaven forbit his giant tongue not kill anyone in the process.
Write 100% of the code from scratch and run XP in a Virtual Machine.
Whatever Mycrowsoft releases in January, it will bear no resemblance to what was once called Longhorn.
My prediction is that “Vista” for consumers won’t be released until mid summer 2007.
Mycrowsoft has always been a shoddily managed firm. What we are seeing now, is the ugly underbelly after its abusive business practises have been stripped away, revealing the sloth that is Mycrowsoft.
The only innovation at MS is their use of the word over and over in their memos and interviews.
I think BE is still for sale. It’s not too late.
[…] The team are also working closely with engineers from the Intel Viiv team. and it is now expected that the next version of Viiv could be delayed to line up with the launch of the consumer version of Vista at the 2007 CES Show in Las Vegas.”
…or they could give Apple a shot at coming up with something that appropriately uses Viiv.
As someone said, rewriting 60 % of the Vista code and then have time to bugtest it before januari 2007 simply isn’t possible. If this figure is correct, and I think it seems suspiciously high, then we won’t see Vista for atleast another year… If not longer.
Um, wow. How on Earth can Microsoft possibly pull this off by January?
Not to mention the fact that they just changed their management of the project….
Derrick: “The only innovation at MS is their use of the word over and over in their memos and interviews.”
exactly!
As I recall, Mac OS X 10.0 was not quite ready for prime time either. The difference is that Apple was the only hardware manufacturer effected, and they were able to ship dual-boot machines with the legacy OS along side OSX. Somehow, I doubt M$ will allow machines to ship with both XP and Vista on them. And you just know Dell, HP, et al are counting on Vista to give them a big sales boost. Delaying it hurts a lot more than just M$.
How long until one of those manufacturers tries to strike up a deal with Apple to license OSX? And would Jobs do it if they ponied up the $?
Thought I saw this quote:
This gives one real confidence that this software will be a winner. It is clearly a very well managed software project with clear objectives and no doubt it will make IT Executives very happy to know that they can look forward to many years of problem free, secure computing under Windows VISTA. End quote.
Rob Enderle
Global Computing Enterprises
60%.. Internal problems?
GO Microsoft!
it was true 30 years ago when it was first written, but it is still true today :
“Adding more personnel to an already late project only makes it later”
MW : “eyes” the eyes of the computing world are on redmond
60% WTF that cannot be right..can it?
Delays, delays and more delays…..
60% of Vista going to be re-written. Hmm…i thought 60% of XP was re-written in order to the birth of Vista
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Now seriously, why do i have the impression that Vista is not going to be like we have seen until now?
Morale within the Vista development team must already be at an all-time low and sinking fast.
First a major management re-organisation, then they’re going to be throwing out 60% of the code that they’ve spent the last five years writing, the Xbox programmers will be muscling in on the project and the whole thing must be delivered by January, so nobody in Redmond should be thinking of making any arrangements for Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Then factor in Ballmer’s farcical keynote and his abrasive manner, think of the torrent of stories telling of how bad things are within all parts of Microsoft and it’s hard to see any way that things can get better.
Personally I’d like to see Vista launched at CES 2007. It will be the same week as the Apple Expo and would give Steve Jobs the most perfect opportunity to perform a killer keynote. However, if just 10% of the stories attributed to Microsoft insiders are true, I can’t see Vista launching in a useable state much before 2008.
Microsoft sucks.
MDN Magic Word: “good”. Good thing I don’t own any of their stock or shit programs.
So… I understand why Steve have sold 430 000 AAPL. He is going to work at Microsoft Windows Vista soon!
Did microsoft not already rewrite a large part of Longhorn/Vista?
All that money, all those people, and STILL not make your already delayed and delayed and delayed headline.
Monkeyboy Ballmer comes in the day after the “yet another delay” anouncement, promising computer heaven in 2006. Right. Then the next day the news about the management troubles. Way to go! Now the news about 60% of the code needing to be rewritten in say….6 months time.
This company is in serious trouble.
unless of course they’re all smarter than we are and this is a giant hoax.
The thing is that at least when Apple launched 10.0 they had the foundations there, subsequent versions have basically solidified what they had and built cool new features onto it. Microsoft have just spent millions (billions) and ended up with some deformed bastard child of their old code which doesn’t work. I don’t like Microsoft but if they’d started from scratch and made something good I’d be the first to congratulate them. As a consumer I don’t really care who does what, all I want is good software – Microsoft don’t and seemingly can’t offer that.
I’m also hoping this delay will allow Apple time to pull a few weeds of its own. After 4 years, maybe we’ll finally see the ‘real’ Finder in 10.5.
I think they should bite the bullet and rename the operating system again, to a moniker that fully describes its bloated structure and potential performace in the market place.
YES I think the Microsoft Titanic operating system would be the perfect title. Its big, over hyped, full of holes, users have to choose what class they can afford and it will be a total disaster when (if) launched.
‘Microsoft have just spent millions (billions) and ended up with some deformed bastard child of their old code which doesn’t work. I don’t like Microsoft but if they’d started from scratch and made something good I’d be the first to congratulate them.’
Wern’t they supposed to have done that with NT the precursor to XP and grandad to Vista? Has it run out of legs already, or was this new technology a myth in the first place. Yup difficult one that, NOT.
It would take a miracle to ship vista by 01/2007 if they restructure the organisation and rewrite the thing with 10 months to go. I assume there will be further feature-cuts (bug-cuts?
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” /> ).
Lets assess those numbers. Now 60% of the code I can figure out, I mean those programmers will have to go and remove “deeper Bill deeper”. Of course they haven’t mastered the cut yet…LOL
But 2007, isn’t that a typo, I mean should it not be 2070?
MS are in a bit of a pickle really, a large proportion of their user base only use MS OS because of the legacy support , yet it is this legacy support that makes it impossible to move forward. Millions of lines of untidy coding that even the most talent and motivated programmers in the world would struggle to work with. I’m sure MS would consider releasing a totally new product but this would put them more or less on a level playing field with their competitors and obviously that is the last thing they want!
spyinthesky said:
“…they should bite the bullet and rename the operating system again….
YES I think the Microsoft Titanic operating system would be the perfect title. Its big, over hyped, full of holes, users have to choose what class they can afford and it will be a total disaster when (if) launched.”
LOL!
Absolutely Classic! I’m saving that one to send around.
Thanks for the great laugh :>
I can’t wait to see this develop over the next 12 months. What an interesting position to be in for Apple.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall in Cupertino!
I get the sneaking suspicion that this cluster*#!! will somehow adversely affect MS Office for the Mac out of pure bitterness.
If MS stopped producing Office for the Mac that would be no big deal:
1. The same way PC folks still use Office 97 Mac users could hang on to Office Mac 2004 for at leats the next 3 years.
2. In the meantime, Apple would release a real iWorks suite with he spreadsheet missing piece.
3. Also in the meantime, NeoOffice could get better at speed.
I already usei it for all M$ formated files that I receive from other users and, although a little slow, it works perfectly.
Don’t worry about M$ or Office for the Mac no more. They are history.
Apple was going for “Copeland.” Instead, we got Mac OS 8 (otherwise known as Mac OS 7.7).
MS was going for “Longhorn.” Instead, they got Windows Vista (otherwise known as Windows XP Service Pack whatever).
I am so happy Apple took the hit back then, and abandoned Mac OS 9 (err… Mac OS 7.8) and started over. I supposed they actually started with NeXT, and not from scratch, but close enough…
I think it is time for Microsoft to do the same. If they are bold enough to make that move, they might actually deserve to call themselves “innovators.”
Looks like Apple might be sending out new Leopard builds.
60% rewrite by December? Vista will be like NT4. Totally unusable until service pack 3.
M$ should do what Apple did years ago: develop a brand new operating built on tested technologies and slowly transition customers to that new system. Trying to please everyone does not work.
Imagine if M$ had a team developing something radically new (never done that before) and as it matured in secret, put more and more resources into it. When it was ready for public consumption, release it to the early adoptors and geeks who love to try new things and are not afraid of system crashes. Get feedback and improve the OS over time and eventually switch all resources to the new OS team and kill off the legacy OS.
Sound familiar? It is funny that M$ copies Apple in many things, but not in the most important things. They need to copy Apple’s long term strategy.
I have a question.
How can the “professional” version of Vista be all set and ready to go for a fall 06 release but the “home” edition is so messed up that 60% of it needs to be rewritten?
Does this make sense to anyone?
Stephen
I think it might be to do with the fact that the corporate version does not have the media facilities. And according to the article, the problem is with te media facilities.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they had done something so fucked up in their media routines, that it opened up all kind of secuity issues… requiring a fundamental rewrite.
Kinda like how viewing certain JPEGs can open up your system to a virus in XP….Only on windows would such a thing happen
Good question Stephen. I have one as well. What about the towels? In all this talk about the major rejiggering of personel and code at MS, not one little mention of towels. Poor towels, they used to be so important.
Oh, and it’s been a pleasent troll free stroll though the comments this morning no?
Gates wants to hang on to legacy compatibility, he is adamant about this and it’s the best thing that ever happened to Apple.
This latest news just goes to show how BIG that ball and chain of legacy Windows crappola is.
Here’s a question, “what have all the engineers at MS been doing to justify their existance for the last 5 years? Service pack releases?”
Anybody want to take a bet on whether the Vista ship dates slip farther?
The Micro-Sloth Internal Memo Stated…<b>
“1. Software + Services: Position for the next wave of innovation relative to our vision for Windows Live….”
and…
“2. Growth: Focus on the key growth opportunities ahead of us, specifically online advertising, emerging markets, and enterprise computing…”
I think these two points are very telling as to where Micro-<b>Sloth sees the future, not as much in selling their whatever version of OS they have, but that the momentum is moving towards server-side, cross platform, web-based applications that basically render M$ impotent, or at least unnecessary.
MDN:EAST, as in…No Fool Like and Old Fool!
The big news here is the stated one, the delay being made for the sake of getting the media center code right and coordinating with Intel’s Viiv architecture. This is a very big deal. We are at the cusp of the transition to HTDV with a 2009 date to complete the transition. The market for media center products is huge.
Microsoft can just look at Apple’s architecture for the media center with Front Row, Bonjour, wireless connections, remote control, iPod connections and the Mac mini as a stalking horse for the media center hardware box. They are shaking in their boots as Apple threatens to run off with the market for the next big thing.
I just hope that Apple gets enough early adopters of its media center products to give them a thorough test, before Apple puts out their updated media center box and software for the living room.
Shut the place down and give the money back to the shareholders.
To put it all in easy-to-understand speak:
MICROSOFT ARE IN DEEP SHIT.
Oh My! Happy Friday, indeed. 😀
See what happens when you have a fckin monopoly? People get lazy and get groupthinkish all of over the place.
At least Vista is appropriately named… its something you can see far away but not every really touch or capture.
How appropriate.
I am really amazed at how the news from Redmond seems to get worse every day. What will be next?
ms , the wang of the 21st century
“60-percent of Windows Vista code to be rewritten”
But they can’t decide between Morse or the Alabama Code of Law for sex offenders.
01000001011011100110010
00010000001110100011010
00011001010010000001101
11001100101011101110010
00000110100001100101011
01100011100000010000001
11001101111001011100110
11101000110010101101101
00100000011101110110100
10110110001101100001000
00011000100110010100100
00001110111011100100110
10010111010001110100011
00101011011100010000001
10110001101001011010110
11001010010000001110100
01101000011010010111001
10010111000100000010000
01001000000110110101110
10101100011011010000010
00000110110101101111011
10010011001010010000001
11010101110011011001010
11100100010000001100110
01110010011010010110010
10110111001100100011011
00011110010010000001100
11001101111011100100110
11010110000101110100001
01110
“Microsoft has pulled programmers
from the highly successful Xbox team . . .”
In fact, Clippy will sport an AK-47 and dust you in a spray of bullets if you don’t heed his instructions. Blood everywhere.
A car that needs to be 60% rebuilt is considered totaled.
If Vista is that big of a mess, the other 40% needs to be rebuilt also. And not in hurry-up fashion either. No product that’s “scrambled” together has any hope of quality.
“Get the console people to fix PCs.”
At MS, the marketing people are getting the console people to help the Windows people fix their OS. Really, could it get <b>any</y> worse?
MS is losing credibility by the minute.
When will the PC industry finally have enough?!?
“Of course Intel would limit processor production and slow Apple up.
WinTel Alliance, got to love working with the devil.”
Not a concern now with AMD kicking Intel’s a** on the PC side. Intel will support Apple if they can sell processors.
Longhorn/Vista, should be renamed Forlorn.
As for the legacy excuse, does it make any sense? Can the legacy systems run Forlorn without a new GPU? Isn’t the point to get people to upgrade? I mean what are those late-adopters going to do? Jump ship to Apple? MS needs to think more like Apple, and drop some of the legacy support that keeps holding them back. Six years for a new OS is ridiculous, and how much better will it be than XP2, anyway?
You got to feel for the people working at Microsoft, many of which probably knew and wanted to rewrite Windows completely long ago. Yet, as usual it is the guys making the obscene levels of income that make the really bad decisions.
And if they had made that decision long ago, MS would probably have a kick ass operating system to offer now instead of all the myriad problems. Oh well.
How about this possibility:
They brought in the XBox team to write the PPC version of Vista to run on the 360. The XBox 360 is the ultimate trojan horse into the livingroom.
Maybe Paul Thurrott said it best when he said Longhorn looked like a “train wreck”.
Paul Thurrott, the Prophet.
Steve Ballmer must go.
Many companies depend upon Windows for thier sales. Hopefully windowws-only software developers will see this as a sign that they’d better diversify rather than being dependent upon MS.
Windows Titanic? That is insulting to the designers of Titanic. Titanic was the best technology of its day and met its fate due to an iceburg. If MS built ships it would sink before it left the harbour.
This is a little off topic and I had to check the original aticle just to be sure, but that is one of the worst written articles I have ever seen. That site needs to fire either the writer or the editor. I have never seen grammer that badly before and have it pass for journalistic writing. I mean, nobody even talks that way. However, concidering the state of tech reporting (or any reporting for that matter), it does not suprise me.
“If MS built ships it would sink before it left the harbour.”
It would probably be incompatible with water.
Imagine the sides of the U.S. Microsail tattoed with millions of disclaimers and incompatibility warnings. With Ballmer at the helm giving the order to destroy the lifeboats (and towels) and Bill clinging to the railing and screaming in his best Kermit voice, “I’m King of the Whirled.” (He had a ghost writer so it didn’t matter if it made sense.)
Microsoft delays Office relaunch
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4840848.stm
Well.
As a fading potential switcher, I think I’m heading back into the switching idea
Some version of Vista will ship iin 2006. If not, many large businesses are going to massively complain and/or file suit. MS has a Software Assurance Program that allows companies to buy software and guarantee all updates for the next three years. They started this in 2003 when it was assumed that a lot of software would be released in the next three years. In that time, there has basically been nothing of significant value released. Office might be pushed back and Vista is on the border. This program is the reason they are pushing so hard to get businesses the Vista update before the end of the year.
It is going to be pathetic when it does come out because it is not going to be anywhere close to ready for mass use.
A major LOL when I saw the headline and read further.
Vista’s going to be the worst MS Windows. Ever. These guys just don’t know how to make it.
the xbox team is probably the only talented group in microsoft with the exception of the MacBU — the “problems” that have been attached to the xbox360 is no more than the “battery issues” tied to the iPod… I am a mac nut, but i must say i was even impressed by the total package that is the 360.
Must be mighty tempting for Apple to license out OS X in the current climate (particularly when PC makers have been banging on their door). Add a fully fledged iWork with Office compatibility and the battle for the enterprise would be on.
Alas I can’t see this happening as long as Apple are opening Apple Stores to flog their own boxes.
MS depends for its future on keeping VISTA compatible with its legacy apps. Yet, at the same it now seems its future is jeopardised because it can’t break away from the legacy and do anything new.
Not a nice position to be in.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer, fat, bald, person. Don’t fire him. Keep him roped to the wheel until we watch his fat face going under the water shouting “I love thiiisss companeeeee. Developers, developers, developgphphhhuuurrrrr…….”
And 40% of Vista will be varying percentages of animal fat, cereal filler, brewer’s rice, chicken meal, corn gluten, mechanically separated beef, semisolid soy protein, particles of rat feces, software engineer’s fingernails, ground up office furniture, raw skeletal monkey muscle meat, chopped up little birdie’s feet, stolen code, bacteria listeria, ammonia, bile, urea, polysorbate 60, modified corn starch, cellulose gum, whey, sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium phosphate, salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup solids, erbium (for additional flavor and tracking purposes, Jimmy Hoffa, stem cells, vanilla extract, and the lyrics to “I Love the Nightlife.”
I find it suspicious that the “consumer” version is the version requiring all that code to be rewritten. It’s common practice in the software community to write code for ONE version. Depending upon what version you buy, certain features of the code are simply turned off. Considering the monolith that is Vista (Longhorn), their programmers don’t have the time to write so many separate versions. Bottom line is that the “professional” version is also screwed up.
Reorganize the Windows division??? The concept of reorganization at Microsoft will be to hire even more incompetent management and to physically move their development personnel from one end of the building to another. Vista is a disaster from top to bottom. Bill Gates’ “Waterloo” is at hand.
This thought just struck me—if the consumer has to wait until January and people are wondering how it can possibly be ready by then, what about the statement that businesses will get it by November? Let’s think about this for a moment:
The big businesses that are the financial backbone of our country and upon which many of our daily lives depend will be running an operating system cobbled together in this fashion. If I remember correctly, Microsoft changed the subscription contract policy such that these businesses HAVE NO CHOICE but to upgrade.
Am I the only one worried about more than just my personal computing experience when Vista comes out?
The real story: Longhorn was originally going to be mostly .NET based code, with 60% of it complete for release. Realizing that the .NET framework is convoluted and poorly designed, not to metion terrible performance as well for an OS to be writtne in, the decision was made to rewrite that 60% of the code for Vista.
It’s funny, I live about 8000 miles away from Infinite Loop, but if I turn off the TV and listen very carefully at the window I swear I can hear hysterical laughter.
But curiously, I think I can also hear what sounds like a Herman Miller chair flying through the air.
Wha!! 60% of the Vista code to be rewritten, that can’t be, and release date is in Jan 2007. How about just changing the name to Windows Delay Pro and forgetting all the official release dates.
News Flash!!!
Microsoft has pulled personal from the janitorial staff to help clean-up the mess with Vista.
I think I just heard a toilet flush.
It won’t be long now — Microsoft, the 8 pound gorilla of the software world.
Vista is in bad shape but you guys might be reading the numbers wrong. It’s up to 60% of the consumer version of Vista. In other words, not 60% of the entire OS, just the consumer bits, specifically the Media Center code.
I read the article in the link, and other than the initial statement, in the openning paragraph, there is no further evidence put forward to back up this “60% Re-write” claim.
I am not saying there aren’t problems at M$ — clearly evident by their restructuring — but without any real details, the writer is blowing smoke!
The author throws out this wild claim, but does nothing to back it up. Choosing to publish an internal M$ email that only discusses the re-org.
I am no fan of Windows, Gates, Ballmer or M$, in general, but this is just FUD.
What’s happenning to journalism these days?
This can’t be right 60% rewritten to the consumer release! Wasn’t this the same great company that had problems with the Date: 00, because nobody thought at the time that the os software would be around for that long. But as I remember it’s the corp / gov that paid out the nose to patch it and who made a win then.
In a related story, Bill Gates has admitted that all previous versions of Windows were also poorly written, resulting in bugs, instability, confusing UI design and user frustration. The current Windows XP and the upcoming Windows Vista inherited many of their problems from these earlier releases.
To fix the problem, Mr. Gates is demanding scrutiny into how Windows 1.0 went so wrong in setting the trajectory of later developments. DOS will be rewritten and reintegrated into current projects in an effort to reshape history and avert the expected domination of Mac OS X in the near future.
“The new focus and reorganization of Microsoft will pave the way for Windows X, our new concept of an operating system that just works”, says Mr. Gates, adding that the expected release date for Windows X is next Thursday.
MDN should not rely on second-hand reports of personal blogs. This story is complete fiction. See http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_No_Vista_Code_Changes/1143232877
Throw out the other 40% and start over.