“Apple Computer is planning to set up a technical support center in Karnataka on the lines of the one which Dell has in India. Director of Software Technology Parks of India, Bangalore, B V Naidu gave no details on investment and hiring plans noting that it’s for the company to make an announcement in this regard,” The Press Trust of India reports.
Karnataka is a state in Southern India. Bangalore is a city within Karnataka which is best known for its tech industry.
Full article here.
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Oh great!
I hope it’s tech support for their Indian customers. Apple is top dog in tech support ratings, it would be stupid to risk that just to save a few bucks.
This would make me very happy indeed. I like to hear Indian accents.
I don’t have any idea how this could possibly be a worse move for Apple. The India call centers for support have rendered horrible customer feedback for Dell, Cingular Wireless, and many more. This is not a wise “cost-saving” measure at all.
now this really angers and disgusts me.
BOO!!!!
I’m pretty sure they already route some calls to an Indian centre; either that or I am speaking to Indians in some other country with quite strong regional accents. I have no problem with this as long as they are competent, and of course the people answering with British and American accents don’t always score top marks for this either.
Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!
First of all, this would probably not save a few bucks… it would probably be millions upon millions per year. However, if this is true, I absolutely hate this decision. The best thing about apple support is that every time you call you know you are going to speak to someone who actually knows how to speak the english lanuage, and does not have an accent that could kill a cow.
no~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh no! I have a Dell laptop and their tech support is the absolute worst. Not only is the information bad, it’s hard to understand with tech supports thick accents. Bad information + bad communication = horrible support.
It’s a shame to see they’re selling out too. Dell and Microsoft’s customer service has gone to hell since moving their operations to India, and I’m sure Apple’s will follow suit as well. Companies should keep their customer service regional for their customers. There is no excuse for having to call halfway around the world for help with a problem and creating a major language barrier between the customer and the support staff. If you live in India, you should speak to a support person in India. If you live in Europe, it should be someone in Europe, etc.
there goes the neighborhood
The use of Intel chips, the beginning (maybe) of whatever those bad things are that infect Windoze, and now overseas tech support. Well, its been a great 20 years. I just hope I’m overly pessimistic.
This is a terrible move! I have made a practice of quitting any company that goes to foreign tech support.
Let it be known that you don’t like this.
Think of the beautifully labeled “Made In California”.
You slam everyone else with emails that say the
slightest thing negative about Apple, slam Apple
about this. This is absolute doo-doo.
Horrible idea! Indian support centers have bad track record. Apple should know better!
They should talk to the Governor of NC about tax breaks to build here – cheaper labor than California and a skilled native english speaking base of tech workers!
Anyone have Steve’s email addy? I feel like lodging a complaint.
Where’s the MDN take slamming Apple for this.
btw, I’m not inherently against it.
I hope not. I don’t like Indian accents (not the people just the accents). Now Jamaican accents I really like, Mon.
hey, db are you racisist? you don’t think of any situation that English doesn’t work? English is not always good way to talk unlikely you think. well, you only speak English right? learn foreign language. at least, they speak two. you’re not. me? I am speaking three different language (Korean, spanish, Russia, expect English), living in U.S.
A local Indian report says that Apple will be opening a support centre there. As usual, Apple have said nothing.
People who live in America seem to imagine that the whole world revolves around the US. They may be surprised to discover that Macs are sold in other countries and those customers will also need support.
Until such time as Apple announces that an Indian call centre will be taking over from an American one for American customers, there is no need for any of this hysteria.
No! That would be a huge mistake for Apple. When I first got my G5, it had the famous video-card problem. My first tech call was a person who had a hard time with English, and actually gave me an instruction which would have damaged my Mac. I hung up, called again. This time, good ol’ Apple Service did their magic!
Apple, re-think this blunder.
Not a good idea.
I hope the European centre stays in Ireland. I love the Irish accents, even the really harsh Ulster ones.
Apple should set up a technical support center in Wales also. That way we could hear similar accents to the Indian ones and not understand either of them.
Hmmm… MDN quiet on the hard ones? Weenies.
Anyone have email addresses of Apple dignitaries.
AlanAudio, by the time they announce it it will be
to late to stop. It has nothing to do with imagining
everything revovlves around us, it is jobs, it is that
Apple has bilions of dollars in the bank. Companies
outsource because of cheap labor. Key word, cheap.
Apple is first and foremost an american company.
You buy it, you love it.
is anyone else noticing MDN’s pages taking forever to load today?
/Safari
Oh great, Apple is moving to a place that puts cows on a higher pedestal that my Mac…
I would hate to have to work in tight cubicle with those people, anybody there ever heard up deodorant?
And before anybody flames me, whoever said that either worshipping cows was defensible and that body odor was racist?
Hey, Edward, your English ain’t working so well, either…
Thank God I live in a major city where we have a local Apple Store. I won’t ever bother calling for customer service if this happens, that’s for sure. I’ll just have to carry my Mac/iPod in to the Genius Bar at the retail store for service.
Great. Now I won’t be able to understand them. Well, I’m glad I have an Apple store in my city. I’ll just rely on them.
Re: edward
It is not a Racist thing. But the purpose for the move is likely to save money, and you often get what you pay for. The language issue is significant – A large portion of Apple customers are in english speaking countries and so native speakers are a plus. But i have worked with Indian support centers before and i always leave with a lower opinion of the support. If they have the same quality service then my complaint is only that it is a loss of US tech jobs.
US tech workers, again are marginalized. Sad, very sad. (going out to get a slurpee, brb)
I hate this although I never call Apple for support (too expensive)
Having been in the software industry and having experience with offshore services I can tell you that the savings are pretty significant (not just a few bucks).
I’m sure this will be to help customers world wide. With such low per capita income I doubt India is that big of market for Apple.
little by little It appears that Apple is turning into what it once opposed.
All of a sudden I dont feel they no longer want to think different
I think this may have already happened in some way. I called Apple Care just last week and “Nimi” answered the phone. She had a very heavy Indian accent and was obviously just reading from a list of questions instead of actualy listening to and understanding what I was saying. I had a hard time understanding her, and she had a hard time understanding me.
Repitition may be the seat of learning but is sure begets frustration as well.
After 10 misunderstood minutes with Nimi, I was transferred to a “product specialist” who was in California. This guy was a native English speaker, and we got to the heart of the matter without any trouble, or frustration at all.
If Apple does open a customer support center in India, I hope it is not to be used for outsourcing United States customer support phone calls. I certainly understand the need or desire to use labor that is less expensive, I have a team of programmers stationed in Mumbai and am in the process of hiring another in Bangalor. I have to do this to keep my product price competitive in the U.S. market but I don’t have my customers speaking with anyone in India. I don’t want them to be as frustrated with my company as I was when I called Apple last week.
mw= stage It could be set for customer support disaster.
As a longtime Mac owner and Apple shareholder let me make a few comments. Tech support should be LOCAL– so if it is for India fine, but only for India. The same would apple if it were Canada or anywhere else. It’s not about race or culture– it’s about MY home country.
When the last decent paying American job has been moved or outsourced, just exactly what will 300 million people do for a living? Not everyone can be a lawyer/doctor/teacher/policeman. It seems like just about every other job in this country is subject to export. That leaves pimp/prostitute/drug dealer/fry cook/Prison Guard/Dell Online Sales Counselor.
If you are an American, the trend is not pleasant to consider. The US is being invaded by tens of millions of illegal aliens, which force down wages while burdening our public services. At the same time ‘US’ companies are dropping benefits for what US workers they still have and are exporting jobs to any number of countries as hard as they can.
Apple has already long ago shuttered it’s US plants and shipped the jobs to contractors overseas. Steve Jobs is famous for saying that stealing (relative to music) is bad karma. Maybe so
The systemic theft of jobs by China, Mexico and India is bad karma. The practice of highly profitable companies abandoning workers in search of ever cheaper wages and no environmental laws is bad karma. The use of slave wage labor is bad karma. Enriching a country that has nuclear missiles pointed at you may be bad karma, but is galactic stupidity for sure. What goes around will ultimately come around.
Bottom line-If tech support moves offshore, Apple will have sold me it’s last AppleCare, etc. I’m really tired of this kind of sh*t. It’s not polite to say it, but it’s the truth.
Please, no. American Express (imagine the irony) has already done this … and I’m one of the weirdos who refuses to talk with anyone about my account unless they’re in the US. I can’t see how my calling 5 times and tying up 5 different people just to handle a simple issue can be cost-effective for them.
doesn’t mean they can’t hire people fluent in English and easy to understand. It doesn’t have to be just like Dell.
Yesterday I had questions on my .Mac account, (ever try
calling Apple about .Mac?) so I called Apple Support and
talked with a very nice gentleman in OHIO. I apologized
several times for bothering him, but he helped me solve
my problem. It was great and one reason we use Apple.
“Nimi” will absolutely not do what they man in OHIO did.
I know there are Indian Apple users, and Irish and…. But
if a call to Apple is placed in India it should be routed to
an Indian call center. If ones is placed in Ireland it should
be…
Using Indian call centers for american customers concerning
an american company with a “Think Different” motto, in
my mind, is wrong.
India for Indians,
Exactly right.
Anyone who has called up would probably notice that lots of AppleCare calls are already sent to Bangalore. Outsourced, rather than Apple employees.
DB:
“and does not have an accent that could kill a cow.”
I hope you realize the irony of that statement.
Oh no! Not sure how much more indian support i can handle! Sure they print humans like postage stamps in that country so i realize that it’s compelling…but it really cheapens the support “experience.”
NOOOOOO!
Where are the nameless weasels and their “take” on this? They are quick to sing Apple’s praises whenever Jobs breaks wind, but when it appears that there is a potential for Apple to do something very unpopular, and monumentally stupid, like this we don’t hear a peep from the hack jobs in charge here?
Nothing?
Wow, ballsy!
Maybe they are busy finding another 6 or 7 pixels on the page to stick up another ad.
Great idea! if this can keep just one indian family from moving to the US then it will be absolutely worth every penny!
Most Americans complain about accents.
Most Americans have never been outside the country.
Most Americans do not even have a passport.
It’s hard to take seriously complaints from people who are so sheltered and parochial.
Come on people. The secret to talking with people who come from different backgrounds than you? Practice! It’s not that hard, really, once you try.
There’s a whole world out there to explore, discover, and understand. (Apologies to NASA…)
Having spent literally countless hours on the phone to the Indian subcontinent trying to sort out problems with Netgear equipment, I do not want to do the same for Apple. I prefer the genial Irish accents I’m (so occasionally) have to deal with.
Why does Apple hate America?
I called AppleCare support the other day (from the UK) and got through to an Indian gentlemen. In India. So I think it’s already happening, although maybe not on every call.
Six months ago it was a Dutchman in Ireland. Couldn’t understand a word he said either.
Where were you guys when Apple closed its factories in the West, like the USA and Ireland? Nobody objected moving production to Taiwan and China – even Mexico wasn’t cheap enough anymore. Now you are concerned over this? When were you when people lost their jobs when factories in the West closed because production moved East? Did you go on the street and protest together with the workers? Did you stop using the products the companies made that were produced in China or India? Did you tell the companies that you prefer MADE IN USA, even if it meant higher prices? Did you stop buying your precious Levi’s and Apple? No? THEN STOP WHINING!
dude! you high? i’ve been ALL around the world and parts of it are wonderful! But there are parts that are way Way WAY overpopulated…india is one of those places. given a choice i would not do anything to encourage that country to “grow”. They are so grossly out of control all ready. You fear for the environment? Humanity? Do NOT support companies with serious interests in india.
Observations-
1 It’s funny (strange) that US based companies are ‘American’ when they need something like economic protection, but ‘internationalist’ when it comes to everything else. Their only loyalty is money and not to customers.
2 Our (US) government has sold us out to foreign lobbyists, foreign companies, industry trade associations and their money. Both parties. For quite a while. Their only loyalty is to money–not to the citizens.
3 State and local governments are giving away billions of tax breaks or site improvements to foreign companies while putting the screws to US firms. The tax burden is shifted to US firms and individual taxpayers. Their loyalty is to ‘new’ money– not constituents.
4 The countries that are recipients of all of these job exports have no OSHA, no labor unions, no wage and hour laws, few restrictions on child labor, no existing or enforced environmental laws and a definite cultural and legal bias against women. Do you really want to support that?
Those $150 a pair athletic shoes with a ‘swoosh’ on the side have been found to be made in a factory working children as young as 12 in Vietnam. These children work for wages measured in the cents per hour for 12 hour shifts with no A/C or breaks. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Some factories in China employ prisoners whose crime is wanting to worship in a certain way or hold to the radical idea that they should be able to elect their government. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Not all voting takes place at a polling place. You also vote with your dollars at retail and in stock ownership. It’s time to call the people responsible for this to account. It’s time to tell the truth. I’m sure that is ‘good karma’.
Observations-
1 It’s funny (strange) that US based companies are ‘American’ when they need something like economic protection, but ‘internationalist’ when it comes to everything else. Their only loyalty is money and not to customers.
2 Our (US) government has sold us out to foreign lobbyists, foreign companies, industry trade associations and their money. Both parties. For quite a while. Their only loyalty is to money–not to the citizens.
3 State and local governments are giving away billions of tax breaks or site improvements to foreign companies while putting the screws to US firms. The tax burden is shifted to US firms and individual taxpayers. Their loyalty is to ‘new’ money– not constituents.
4 The countries that are recipients of all of these job exports have no OSHA, no labor unions, no wage and hour laws, few restrictions on child labor, no existing or enforced environmental laws and a definite cultural and legal bias against women. Do you really want to support that?
Those $150 a pair athletic shoes with a ‘swoosh’ on the side have been found to be made in a factory working children as young as 12 in Vietnam. These children work for wages measured in the cents per hour for 12 hour shifts with no A/C or breaks. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Some factories in China employ prisoners whose crime is wanting to worship in a certain way or hold to the radical idea that they should be able to elect their government. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Not all voting takes place at a polling place. You also vote with your dollars at retail and in stock ownership. It’s time to call the people responsible for this to account. It’s time to tell the truth. I’m sure that is ‘good karma’.
Observations-
1 It’s funny (strange) that US based companies are ‘American’ when they need something like economic protection, but ‘internationalist’ when it comes to everything else. Their only loyalty is money and not to customers.
2 Our (US) government has sold us out to foreign lobbyists, foreign companies, industry trade associations and their money. Both parties. For quite a while. Their only loyalty is to money–not to the citizens.
3 State and local governments are giving away billions of tax breaks or site improvements to foreign companies while putting the screws to US firms. The tax burden is shifted to US firms and individual taxpayers. Their loyalty is to ‘new’ money– not constituents.
4 The countries that are recipients of all of these job exports have no OSHA, no labor unions, no wage and hour laws, few restrictions on child labor, no existing or enforced environmental laws and a definite cultural and legal bias against women. Do you really want to support that?
Those $150 a pair athletic shoes with a ‘swoosh’ on the side have been found to be made in a factory working children as young as 12 in Vietnam. These children work for wages measured in the cents per hour for 12 hour shifts with no A/C or breaks. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Some factories in China employ prisoners whose crime is wanting to worship in a certain way or hold to the radical idea that they should be able to elect their government. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Not all voting takes place at a polling place. You also vote with your dollars at retail and in stock ownership. It’s time to call the people responsible for this to account. It’s time to tell the truth. I’m sure that is ‘good karma’.
Observations-
1 It’s funny (strange) that US based companies are ‘American’ when they need something like economic protection, but ‘internationalist’ when it comes to everything else. Their only loyalty is money and not to customers.
2 Our (US) government has sold us out to foreign lobbyists, foreign companies, industry trade associations and their money. Both parties. For quite a while. Their only loyalty is to money–not to the citizens.
3 State and local governments are giving away billions of tax breaks or site improvements to foreign companies while putting the screws to US firms. The tax burden is shifted to US firms and individual taxpayers. Their loyalty is to ‘new’ money– not constituents.
4 The countries that are recipients of all of these job exports have no OSHA, no labor unions, no wage and hour laws, few restrictions on child labor, no existing or enforced environmental laws and a definite cultural and legal bias against women. Do you really want to support that?
Those $150 a pair athletic shoes with a ‘swoosh’ on the side have been found to be made in a factory working children as young as 12 in Vietnam. These children work for wages measured in the cents per hour for 12 hour shifts with no A/C or breaks. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Some factories in China employ prisoners whose crime is wanting to worship in a certain way or hold to the radical idea that they should be able to elect their government. Is that ‘bad karma’?
Not all voting takes place at a polling place. You also vote with your dollars at retail and in stock ownership. It’s time to call the people responsible for this to account. It’s time to tell the truth. I’m sure that is ‘good karma’.
First Intel, now India. I don’t think that this will fare well on their top rated support.
What’s next, provide support for Windows users after they can get the OS installed on an Intel Mac?
OH god!!!!
All I can think of is “Thank you! Come Again!!!”
AHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Where do we contact Apple to protest this. This would be worse than the hockey puck mouse and floral iMac.
Hey ‘Outsourcing & Blah blah blah’- –
Beautiful speech. Really. No, really.
I’m, I’m cryin’ here.
Touched, I am.
Now give me my f*ckin’ computer.
I’ll take fries with mine.
Get used to hearing that. When it’s over you can take counter orders at Mickey D’s or wear a smurf suit at Wal-Mart. Thiose wages will buy you a really nice Mac…NOT!
Re-Accented, high I am… not!
India’s population density is hardly the issue here.(*) Instead, it’s good to know you’ve been all around the world.
Did you take the time to learn any languages of those places? (If you learned more than a few tourist phrases, congratulations.) I bet you found that the natives spoke English a lot better than you spoke their language.
The real question relevant to this forum: Did you learn to cope with the accented English these people spoke? If so, how long did it take you? What tips could you offer to someone starting down that path now?
Given your experiences around the world, maybe you could clue in the people in this forum complaining about accents?
(*) Btw, last time I checked the UN Development Program data, education and economic development are among the best ways to reduce overpopulation, poverty, and forced migration.
Can someone make me an Apple logo wearing a turban?
LOL
why don’t they have halloween in india?
because someone stole tha gahndi
(i heard some comic tell that joke)
I don’t care who I talk too about tech support as long as the information I receive is current, correct, and useful.
Agreed, and I can understand them. I just had an Indian Tech support agent and I had to ask him to repeat what he was saying over and over again, due to an accent.
I found it frustrating.
Indian Tech Support centers may be the kiss of death for a company. My brother purchased a Dell laptop one year ago from the company’s Consumer Division. This qualified him for support through India. Unfortunately, he had to use the support because Dell’s laptop are no longer the reliable products they once were.
For two months, he suffered through a series of nightmarish Indian tech support experiences. The reps did not know the product and though they tried, they could not answer ridiculously basic questions unless scripted answers were available in their database.
Worse, badly broken English responses made the cryptic calls little more than frustrating, and sometimes pathetically comical experiences. He finally came to his senses (sort of), and packed up the laptop to return it to Dell, BECAUSE THE SUPPORT WAS PATHETIC.
He then repurchased the very same model through Dell’s Business Division. This qualified him for U.S.-based tech support, which is significantly better. Unfortunately, he encountered many problems with this laptop too. It took about nine months, and three replacement laptops before the problems were resolved.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR VALUABLE TIME WITH INDIAN CALL CENTERS. You’ll come out ahead if you chop off your hands, gouge out your eyes and handle the computer problem yourself.
The posters above submitting racist flamebait just to get a reaction should realise just how lame they are.
Please, grow up a bit. It makes you look very sad.
Way to go Apple! Lets screw some more American workers in the quest to save money. Why I can see it now, we saved 1 million dollars per year and added it to our billion of cash we have.
Good move. Makes me want to NOT buy a new mac.
This is a REALLY rediculous idea. VERY bad move, what the hell are they thinking?????
INDIA???? Are they insain?????
It is a marketing moved to get more bodies into the apple stores.
now you will have to make an appointment with a mac genius.
Apple UK have already been doing this for a while. Current UK tech support is handled in India with calls being refered to a “technology specialist” in Cork, Ireland in the event that the problem is too severe for their staff in India. I’ve had need to use it and it wasn’t too bad.
Y’know, I kinda hope this happens. Why? ‘Cuz it’ll answer a huge question:
Is the problem India, or is it Dell?
I have a funny feeling that the Apple support may gain a bit of an accent, but otherwise be just as good as ever.
The company I work for farmed its IT support to India as well. As a result, many people in our company no longer bother to call IT support when something goes awry – they just complain and let the problem get worse.
The accent of the people at a foreign help desk isn’t the problem that I’ve noticed. The problem is in cross-culture communication. People in foreign countries learn what would be best described as “the Queen’s English”, which is pure formal English. Read many of the postings at MDN and at other websites and you will see it laced with slang. Our day-to-day conversations are also filled with slang. We Americans are so used to slang that we don’t even think about it. If a person isn’t raised in America, he or she is unlikely to understand the nuances in “American” English.
The problem is compounded when they merely read back straight from the book or computer screen just as one would read a script. The original problem gets confused when communicated to the person in the foreign country and further confused when misinterpreted and read back.
Sorry Apple, this is a really bad idea. Tech support should always remain in the country that it is intended to serve – Indian tech support to support the people in India and American tech support to support Americans. Send the support to a foreign country because it’s cheap and you will get exactly what you pay for. Should Apple follow through with this, it is not likely that I’ll ever purchase Apple support again.
And by the way, I agree that it will look bad on MDN if they don’t eventually weigh in on this.
Wow, there are a lot of really racist comments here. I thought Mac users were better than that.
If it’s a situation where all calls will be taken there, I’m not happy about it either, but not because they’re Indians. I don’t have anything against them at all, but I hate the fact that an American company is giving away jobs to another country and letting the Americans go. That being said, get used to it. I highly suggest reading the book, “The World Is Flat” by Thomas Friedman. This is the future folks. Calling them derogatory names isn’t going to keep us competitive. We’re entering a time of transition similar to the industrial revolution and I fear Americans are ill prepared for what’s coming. We can’t sit here making fun of people in turbans who talk funny while we watch Jerry Springer and allow our kids to fail math and science classes. We desperately need to wake up and look at what’s happening in the world because if we don’t, it’s going to leave us behind.
English is the language of England. Surprise surprise. That means that people living in America have American accents. (BTW, there are also many American accents.) Some Brits have a hard time understanding American accents. Also, all educated people in India speak English. It’s their official language. (Guess what? America doesn’t even have an official language! Don’t believe me? Look it up.) They are NATIVE English speakers. Most of you all speak in one of the American accents, the Indians speak with a Indian accent. If the chief reason why people aren’t happy with the service is because of the accent, then they best keep in mind that the tech person maybe having just as hard a time with your American accent.
I don’t like thick Indian accents – but when I had to get help with Lotus Notes an Indian support person provided me excellent help. Solved my problem right away. We even chatted about the weather and food.
F**k, NO!~
Sure they are cheap labors… but at what cost? Brand and customer loyalty is not something Apple can afford to save a few million dollars on… They have spent billions and decades on their brand and customer loyalty!
I have known and heard of people switching from Dell to other computers (including Macs) because of Dell’s terrible customer service in India (strong, sometimes impossible to comprehend accents, indifferent attitudes, poor knowledge, impatience… etc).
I wonder if Steve knows about this? This move doestn’t seem to fit with his obsession with the “User Experience”. Not that the caller’s experience would necessairily be bad (I’ve had mixed results with Indian tech support), but Apple would be sacrificing control over the quality of service (and we all know how much Steve loves control).
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!!
NOOOOOOOOOOO
this is the thing i loved about apple/hated about dell (yeah i owned a dell not too long ago)-every – EVERY time i would call tech support they were american, easy to understand etc. i had the worse tech support with dell EVER because of this…they put you thru to some indian guy who doesnt even know half our language. GRRRRRRR i’m so mad i just spit.
APPLE I KNOW YOU CAN DO BETTER.
“Most Americans complain about accents.
Most Americans have never been outside the country.
Most Americans do not even have a passport.”
LOL talk about making generalizations about another culture, you just made a ton of generalizations about Americans. My comments had nothing to do with nationality or ethnicity it had to do with receiving wrong information on several occasions from Dell customer support based in India AND the staff at the call center having very poor English skills which they should have if they are trying to serve an English speaking customer. It just makes common sense to speak the language of your customer no matter what language that happens to be because when your on the phone with someone, thats ALL you have.
I stand by my comment, my experiences with Indian call centers have been full of frustration and most times without any result other than hanging up the phone and googling for the answer.
Tec support: “Good evening, this is Apple’s Tec support. May I help you?”
User: “My Mac can’t boot up.”
Tec support: “Try bang-the-dash!”
LOL!
RE:”Most Americans complain about accents.
Most Americans have never been outside the country.
Most Americans do not even have a passport.
It’s hard to take seriously complaints from people who are so sheltered and parochial.”
Call it racist, call it parochial if you like. You don’t know me well enough to be making judgements about me.
I use computers for communication. When a company does something that leads to LESS communication, why I am I supposed to accept it for reasons of political correctness?
You racist Mac suckers make me vomit. I am happy to take your job so you become MacDonald burger flipper. Ha! I will buy Dell in Mumbai – much better quality and price than stupid iMac. And my brother is Vista programmer. He say it will make your shit OS X look like OS/2. Hahahaha.
On those rare occasions when I’ve had to have technical support for my Xserve I’ve consistently gotten better service from “in country” as opposed to the overseas support sites. It’s only partly a matter of communication skills, though that is a factor. Personnel at overseas call centers are often biding their time until their next, better gig, and often could care less. Apple’s own personnel are not only closer to the product, but are typically more experienced. They cost more, but they’re worth it.
Were Apple to setup a support center for their Indian customer base (do they even have one?) that would be one thing. In the meantime, I’ll add my voice to the general consensus. This is a bad move.
It’s funny to me how oblivious many Americans are to the accents that they speak.
A previous post said:
“…the staff at the call center having very poor English skills which they should have if they are trying to serve an English speaking customer. It just makes common sense to speak the language of your customer no matter what language that happens to be…”
Wow. I guess if you don’t speak English with a mid-western / west coast American accent, you “have very poor English skills” or aren’t even speaking English at all.
“Those Australians, Brits, New Zealanders, Irish, South Africans, Fijians. Philipinos, Belizians, Indians, etc, sure do talk funny. They should learn how to speak English without any funny accents. Just like me.”
The irony of the previous statement is lost on SO many Americans, it’s not even funny. And you wonder why the world dislikes you? BTW, don’t blame Bush for your own shortcomings.
I think your claim to be an Indian is a lie. I think you are just another Windows loser who is masquerading as an Indian to incite some people to make anti Indian comments, so that you can use their words against them. You are a liar. But, what can you expect from a Windows user?
Bottom line is bottom line. As some have suggested, mayhaps this is for other than US customers. ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY THE FREIGHT? Personally, I would pay an extra fee if that is what it takes to get some help when looking for help, but alas, Apple too goes the way of the Punjab Gurudwaras seeking the Golden Temple of Darbar Sahib? huh?
MW: son, as in, “Son, what ARE you talking about?”
I am Proud Indian Windows Winner! You are Sad Mac Loser! Ha! We give best technical support in the world. You cannot even speak proper English. You must first go to oxford and learn.
No one is buying your lies. C’mon, get off it will ya! I guess your criticism against me is true, in that I’m not SPEAKING proper English, I was WRITING it. That was funny though! Oxford. LOL!
It’s hilarious to read the comments of all the people who say that everybody is being racist and that it’s no big deal. Is it racist to want to receive support in the native language you speak? No.
India support has made me want to break my phone in half many times before. I don’t care if they know how to speak basic English or not, and I don’t care of they’re “oh-so-intelligent” because they speak multiple languages. I have a friend who had to call Dell support about a problem she was having with a desktop of hers, and the person that she got on the phone basically gave her directions to break her computer and then had no idea how to put it back together. Certainly most of the people who knew a thing or two about computers would know when something sounded fishy, but not all of us are computer-intelligent, and so we’ll listen to anything that a support person says.
I used to believe that Apple would be the computer company who stayed faithful to their American users and keep their support superior and American-based to make it easier to receive the information you needed on a given subject. I used to believe that Apple was devoted to making sure that they gave the most pleasant and effective experience to the user. I used to believe that Apple cared more about their customers than to want to do this when they know it’s an obvious mistake just to save a bit of money.
If they’re doing this to make a support center that is only for India and if they continue to have their American-based support available to people calling in America, then it’s all fine and good and I’d say go for it. But if they plan to make all of the support based in India, this part of Apple’s gone rotten.
lets see.
computers all made in China by the same people making other brands. Call center in India by people who were working for Dell last week.
doesn’t much sound like an American Company. I guess we may keep the Apple Profit Center in the USA.
You do not believe me? India is future of all computing. Mumbai is silicon valley of 21 first century. OS X will become iPod music operating system for stay-home housewife.
“And you wonder why the world dislikes you?”
Oh, I don’t wonder and I really don’t care. This idea of cultural equivolence is bullsh*t and I think it’s pretty obvious that most (not all) Americans agree.
To the Proud Indian, I think it’s great that you love your country and I’m glad you’re proud to be an Indian but frankly I wouldn’t trade places with you on a dare. I’m not dogging you, I’d just rather be an American. And evidently, so would a lot of other people from all over the world.
Nope. I don’t believe you, and no one else does either. Heck, I know some places in India too. Andra Pradesh (the heartland of India), Goa (former Portuguese colony), but that don’t make me an Indian. PLEASE stop impersonating an Indian. You make them look bad. You ain’t no Indian!
ndelc …… your observations are quite correct but will fall mostly on deaf ears.
The world is now a Global economy. A global economy means more than selling KFC in every city throughout the world. It means that every product and service that you sell has to compete on it’s merits with whatever the rest of the world can offer.
You’ve already seen how automobiles and motorcycles from foreign companies can take over established markets. You know that Apple products and most of the parts inside them are made in the far east. Do you have a locally made camera, printer or TV ?
It’s inevitable that other countries will attempt to sell services too.
You don’t beat them by calling them offensive names or mocking them. You don’t beat them by using restrictive trade practices or penalising them. You don’t beat them by banging your chest and being jingoistic.
The way to beat them is to offer something better. If you’re intelligent, you trade on that intelligence. If you’re imaginative, you sell the fruits of your imagination. Being well educated is the key to future prosperity – and that’s not the same as merely graduating from college. Being well educated also means being wise, well-informed and forward looking.
Many of the comments made on this thread reveal a worrying degree of ignorance and prejudice. If most people are as insular as is implied here, then they won’t see what’s happening beyond their borders and the competition will overwhelm them before they even realise that it’s coming.
This isn’t merely a problem for the US, Europe faces similar challenges, but the big difference is that Europe is getting prepared by being more competitive and changing the way it does business.
To put a Mac spin on it, look at how Apple introduced iTunes and hardly anybody noticed. The iPod made few ripples when it was launched. Even iTMS wasn’t much of a story as it was only available to US Mac users. But Steve had put some strategically important elements in place and then he just made a small adjustment by opening it up to Windows users and getting distribution deals around the world and within a year, the three elements had combined to become a massive Global phenomenon which is still gaining momentum. Virtually nobody saw it coming and it succeeded beyond anybody’s dreams.
China is doing exactly the same sort of thing that Apple did but on an infinitely bigger scale. They are placing strategically important elements for the future. They are educating their population. There is more technical infrastructure than ever before. Chinese businessmen are negotiating big deals, their factories are busy, they have masses of raw materials, energy and other resources. Above all they have an immense workforce and that workforce is becoming an immense market.
You may scoff and sneer to your heart’s content, but all the time that you ignore what’s happening beyond your borders, the less time you will have to react.
The world will be a very different place in 25 years. Existing dominant nations will lose power and influence while others will gain power and influence. Attitudes such as those displayed on this forum will only hasten that process.
I agree that apple should keep it’s call centers local for tech support. But what’s most disgusting is some of the blatent and subtle racism I’m seeing here. Turd Ferguson is a moron and the worst kind of racist… the kind that doesn’t think he/she/it is one.
Some of these comments that are coming from Mac users who love their Tink Different slogans and commercials (a campaign that used a famous Indian and “cow worshipper” in Gandhi) is sad.
The only fair comments to this whole thing are ones that logically argue that call centers should be local for local customers. Issues of accents, body deoderant (meaning you Turd), etc. having nothing to do with this. Would Turd say the same thing if the center was opening up in England? Would you, Turd, complain that you wouldn’t be able to understand English accents through their bad teeth? I doubt it.
Disgusting.
Check out
http://www.illwillpress.com/vault.html
Tech Support and Tech Support II
I’m proud, too.
Who said anything about culture? Americans seem to think that they invented English and criticize people who don’t use it in an American way, even though it’s not even the official language.
Everyone thinks their own culture is the best, and EVERYONE is wrong. People come to America for freedom and opportunity, and they bring their culture with them. If you have ever been to an ethnic neighborhood in America, you would see that people don’t abandon their culture when they arrive.
And another thing. To “Proud Indian”: As an Indian myself I think you’re part of the problem. It’s sad to think that the generally educated and smart Indians have fallen for Bill Gates and Windows. India is a Windows world and that sucks big time. If you knew half of what you claimed to know then you would know that Vista is a OS X rip off and as usual, late. So, please, save yourself the embarassment and don’t boast about Vista.
And to all you other, uninformed morons. English is the second official language of India. Your bad user experiences with other Indian call centers are a part of the overall bad user experiences with those companies. I’m sure Apple will do a better job at hiring than Dell. Your inner mac user has to understand that, has to be smarter than your inner racist.
Still disgusted.
My brother says Vista will have special code to DDOS all Mac in network. So users will say OS X does not work and call for Indian tech support. He says it is Bill Gates secret plan. We like his plan.
uhhh… I thought apple already had indian call centers. I have called Apple and gotten a man with a very thick indian accent who did not know what he was talking about. Maybe that was a ffluke, maybe Apple had an Indian American at a call center here but this guy was definitely not a native english speaker.
I don’t mind the language barrier, I can usually decipher even thick indian accents but in my experience the reps at call centers in India aren’t trained as well as those in America. After calling dell tech support a billion times I realized that most of them knew less about my computer than I did and were typing things into a computer and trying to get me off the phone as quickly as they could, whether they had fully resolved my issue or not. If Apple starts routing all their calls to India, but they train them well and it is not he soul crushing experience that it is when I call Dell, I couldn’t care less about this move.
But then again I think it’s already happened or they have at least been testing a small call center there for over 6 months which was the last time i called Apple tech support.
Bilbo Faggins, like all racists, you’re a coward. If you had the balls you’d publish your email so that people could respond to your “sand n*$*$ers” comment directly to you. But then again, you don’t deserve the time of day or a dignified response of any kind.
You’re a sad excuse for a human being.
I knew this would become an anti-Indian bash fest as soon I saw the headline. I cover my face in shame of being a Mac user when I read stuff like this. I’m not in this for the people, I’m in it because Macs are a joy to use.
I see you didn’t extend the same courtesy. Neither did I. I just don’t care what racists think/feel/say.
Once again, AlanAudio, spot on.
Hey MDN, fix your site. I shouldn’t have to scroll to
the left just to read the whole post.
And I am so surprised that you have nothing to say.
With all your whining with easy topics…
to the right, that is.
AlanAudio,
Very well said, but I’m afraid you’re right about it falling on deaf ears.
Regarding the quality of call centers, in my experience, I don’t think it has anything to do with where they are, most of the time, the person answering the phone has very little knowledge of the product and troubleshooting and relies on a scripted book to fix the problem. This seems to be helpful very little of the time. I’ve called Comcast tech support on several occasions, spoken to someone right here in the USA, and known in less than 30 seconds that they had no idea what they were talking about. When it comes to issues with my Mac, I usually rely on the Apple Discussion Boards. I don’t think I’ve ever had an issue that wasn’t quickly resolved there.
Lastly, just so my previous post wasn’t misunderstood, I don’t think objecting to opening a call center in India is racist. I’d rather Apple kept their call centers local too. I was referring to comments about deodorant, turbans, and the term “sand n****r”. Truly disgusting. I’m honestly surprised to see that people that ignorant are capable of making the intelligent choice to buy a Mac.
I’m not the one making racist comments, Bilbo. I have nothing to hide from, you clearly do. I won’t be extending any racist, any courtesy of any kind. If the editor’s of Mac Daily News haven’t responded to your racist comments then I feel it’s the responsibility of the users to point them out to them. It’s too easy to “not care” what racists say because A) this was not the appropriate forum to make such comments and that must be addressed and B) this being a mac lovers site you and others are creating a bad impression of what mac users are like and C) BASIC F*#@IN’ RESPECT & DECENCY ARE IN ORDER HERE.
“People come to America for freedom and opportunity, and they bring their culture with them. If you have ever been to an ethnic neighborhood in America, you would see that people don’t abandon their culture when they arrive.”
Unfortunately this is true. Everyone loves their culture, they are just not big enough fans of their own country to stay there and bask in it.
So everyone who lives here already is supposed to be “tolerant” of it.
Rather not, but thanks anyway.
If it was so good back home you should never have left.
So here is the deal, if I buy a product here in the US, by a company based in the US, I want to talk to someone here in the US.
Not someone with an adopted “American name” like Charlie or Mike who has about as much grasp on the English language as the crew at my local Dunkin Donuts.
And although it might be not politically correct to feel that way, let alone voice that opinion, I am too tired of listening to the bleeding hearts to give a sh!t.
Dell’s tech support has been abysmal since they shifted to off shore call centers and my bet is the same will be true of Apple if they do so as well.
Nothing wrong with saying that. It’s the truth. The truth may hurt, it may seem mean and ugly, but that doesn’t make it any less of the truth.
How about this, I am sure people in other countries, with other languages, don’t want to hear some American with a southern twang on the other end of the phone when they call tech support for one of the products sold in their country. I wouldn’t blame them. It’s ok to expect to be serviced by someone you can understand, and who understands you.
There is nothing inherently wrong with that. Unless you love to be ‘PC’ and are one of the bleeding hearts I spoke about earlier.
I would bet that most of the people who claim being incensed by the “racisim” on this thread feel the same way. Secretly at least. But they feel better about themselves if they label other people a “racist” for telling the truth.
They should conduct a little experiment.
You call Apple tech support and are presented with an option. you push “1” for tech or sales support from someone in the country you are calling from, or push “2” for someone “offshore”.
Since Apple always puts the consumer first this is a good way to determine in a practical way what their own customers prefer.
The bleeding hearts who love to the show the world how open they are can struggle trying to firm up a communications gap with someone in India or China or wherever by pressing 2. And everyone else can take their chances with someone within their own borders.
But here’s what I am betting; all the people on this thread who have jumped to the defense of off shore call centers would be right along with the rest of us when we hit that the number 1 on our touch tones. Of course they will feel better about themselves because they have made an effort to stomp out the tyranny of a “racist” few on a Mac news forum, but deep down inside they want clear and concise help to their tech problems just like the rest of us. And the best way to get that is to speak to someone who speaks the same language you do, and doesn’t have some manufactured name to make callers feel at ease.
But keep lying to yourselves and claim otherwise…
It’s not about race or even nationalism. I don’t care about that. It’s about ME man! All I want is to get a cheap Mac and be able to support it. If I CAN’T understand the person trying to help me then I just get frustrated. And I begin to equate that brand with frustration. This has already happened to me with both my telcos. I dread having to do business wid dem bekase day ca-note speek engrish. It’s not racist..it’s just the fact Jrak!
I agree with you that the call centers should remain local but you miss the point on the racist issue. You fail to call to the table the blatant racism that has surfaced on this thread. Comments by Turd Ferguson and Bilbo Faggins as an example.
India and America are two wonderful democracies separated by a common language.
I work in an industry that has a lot of the queen’s commonwealth, and former commonwealth’s citizens in it. Language issues do arise, but we’re able to work through it face to face. When the issues are technical, and the conversations are long distance – the frustration levels on both sides goes up.
Unfortunately – my experience with Indian call centers are that they are scripted, unhelpful, and a serious waste of time. The idea of talking to someone who is reading from a script, and reading that script in a dialect that makes it difficult to understand, is not good customer service.
It’s got nothing to do with nationalism, or racism. It’s just bad business. Piss off the customer and they won’t buy again.
Grow up. By writing that sad Chinese accent you not only played the card you tipped your hand. Pick up your white sheet and hood at the door. The Western world is so insular that in the long run it’s going to kick you in the ass. China and India are on the verge, and this is a reality, of becoming the next Super powers. Open your minds and try to see the world beyond your corner 7-11.
wheeee!
I e-mailed the webmaster about that bloody NOOOOO..(etc) post above hours ago. That and the lack of new articles seems to indicate they’ve knocked off early for the weekend.
Anyway, I’m off out for an English, and I’m going to want it extra mild. See ya.
And for those unlucky enough never to have watched it, it was very funny.
Some of the entries on this thread are disturbing to say the least. The debate about whether the call centers in India are good or bad is a valid one. However, when issues of race and flat out racist comments are allowed to go un-checked you allow for debate of unrelated issues on your site, not to mention tarnish the otherwise great quality of service you provide. I sincerely hope you will address this issue ASAP.
“I agree with you that the call centers should remain local but you miss the point on the racist issue. You fail to call to the table the blatant racism that has surfaced on this thread. Comments by Turd Ferguson and Bilbo Faggins as an example.”
What would you like to address? They feel how they feel. In fact who knows if they even really feel that way? Maybe they are just trying to get people riled up.
In the end if it doesn’t address the crux of the matter so why address it? Life is too short to care.
We have people here expounding on the Globalization of America, a business reality, but not one that the average customer wants to deal with when it comes to a product they purchased where they live.
The job of business, of corporations, of anyone making big dollars off of “Globalization” (which may just be the buzz word of the decade), is to make that reality transparent to the consumer. Do off shore call centers do that? Come on!
Joe User who just sepnt two grand on an iMac wants his machine to work. He is not interested in the business machinations of the company who sold it. He lives in Oregon, he has a white picket fence, he was promised tech support for up to a year on his product, he doesn’t want to struggle with understanding just what the hell it is the guy on the other hand is saying to him, and he damn sure doesn’t want to listen to the person on the other end awkwardly interpret what it is he is saying.
The reality of big business today maybe globalization, but it shouldn’t be on the consumers back to “broaden their horizons” and be tolerant of the fact that the person on the other end of the line got a refresher course in Western vernacular two weeks before.
There is nothing racist about that. Everyone needs to stop getting their panties twisted in labels. Christ, the reason no one can say anything anymore in this country is because it is not politically correct to have a national identity, or be proud to be American. Instead it’s all about recognizing all the things that are wrong with our country, and admitting to them every chance we have. Because clearly the rest of the world is infallible right? They got everything worked out for the greater good. Right..
But certain truths don’t fall in line with embracing every god damn culture on the planet. Or else we would be stoning every girl that has premarital sex, and covering our women from head to toe.
What that doesn’t sound good? Why not, aren’t we all about embracing the world’s cultures?
Let’s not confuse the question of tolerance, or our “melting pot” identity, or globalization, with good customer service.
Good customer service is at the heart of this discussion, so do everyone a favor and stop making it political or politically charged.
Let’s talk pure customer service.
Off shore call centers DO NOT work well. They don’t. They are cheaper, sure. So are cheap parts. Do you want those in your computer? Even if the production of those parts are putting men and women to work in Zimbabwe? Does that sound like the kind of products you want to get behind? They make break down in a few months and then it will be up to you to convince the guy on the other end of the phone, wherever that person maybe, that it really was manufacturers defect to get it replaced. Sound good? Want to buy stock in the company who makes that their company line?
If not, does that mean do you are against globalization? Or maybe your just not “forward thinking” enough? Or maybe you just like quality. Quality in your products. Quality in your buying experience?
Be careful what you answer, you may labeled be a racist.
There are many Englishes.
There are many accents.
There are many times more non-native speakers of English in the world than native speakers.
(No, these are not generalizations. These are reasonably apparent and confirmable observations of empirical reality.)
In an increasingly globalizing world, it is increasingly likely that we will encounter people who speak differently from ourselves, and need to interact with them for professional or personal reasons.
We’re Mac users, who pride ourselves on being ahead of the technology adoption curve. We place a premium on interoperability (at the network level, the application level, the file format level, etc) in a heterogeneous environment. And we routinely talk about Macs with people who speak a totally different language – Windows.
So why shouldn’t we similarly get ahead of the globalization and language curve, by learning to listen and understand people who speak differently from us?
This would be a real disaster for Apple. One of their biggest selling points is service! Great service. Service you pay, and are willing to pay, extra for. Exporting this would be horrible. One of my coworkers bought a Dell awhile ago based on their service record (which at the time before they offshored was pretty good for PC resellers). When she had troubles she called and was so frustrated at their inability to understand her, her to understand them, and inability to get her problems resolved she has vowed never to buy a Dell again – and is very vocal about it. Apple has a reputation of being the best customer service in the industry – they simply cannot afford to lose this.
I for one would not buy Apple Care if I knew it were staffed in India.
I don’t think anyone is labelling you a racist. However, your comments that anyone who defends the call centre or stands up to the blatant racism on this thread, is a “bleeding heart” is a little off base as well. You are RIGHT about keeping the call centre local. But to simply “not care” and not address blatant racism is not acceptable. It is comments like “sand n#@$%ers” that policticize the issue, not the comments that rise against the use of such terms. There’s nothing bleeding heart about it, in fact, to not care about such things is un-American.
Me thinks Proud Indian is more likely a proud troll.
And to the whiny guy blabbering on about America’s official language, or lack of or whatever – give it a rest. My grandfather came over from Sicily when he was 15 y/o and didn’t speak a lick of English. He wouldn’t let any of his kids speak Sicilian in the house because he knew if they didn’t speak like the rest of America it would hold them back. And he was right. Ethnic neighborhoods are quaint but are filled with people who are either too scared or too lazy to move past their “old world” customs. My grandfather was pretty brave and pretty bright for a guy who worked in a tire factory.
“We’re Mac users, who pride ourselves on being ahead of the technology adoption curve. We place a premium on interoperability (at the network level, the application level, the file format level, etc) in a heterogeneous environment. And we routinely talk about Macs with people who speak a totally different language – Windows.
So why shouldn’t we similarly get ahead of the globalization and language curve, by learning to listen and understand people who speak differently from us?”
Yes, that is exactly what Susie Homemaker wants to do when her iBook won’t boot up. She wants to “get ahead of the globalization and language curve”.
Sure, she might just say she wants her thousand dollar machine to work. But what she reallys wants is to prove want a great concept globalization is by calling “Katie” in Bangladesh and running through her script in awkward English before she checks with her “manager” on what to do next.
Or perhaps she wants a smooth experience having her computers problem addressed with little or no hassle and then going back to working her 50 hour a week job and taking care of two kids?
You know us “lazy Americans” don’t have the summers off, so we are typically on the go quite a bit. Making globalization work so share prices can go up a few cents is not too high on most people’s priority lists.
Especially when Susie’s husband was laid off from his Help Desk job because his company went the Off Shore route. I am sure she just can’t wait to spend her free time “learning to listen and understand people who speak differently from us”
That is customer service at it’s best. Working a day job to earn enough to pay for the machine isn’t quite enough. Now you have to learn to embrace the world’s various languages in order to get a problem addressed.
But that sounds great to me. Doing so will be just another step towards living in a world of peace and harmony. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go slide down the rainbow in my backyard so I can feed my Unicorn.
Bill,
I agree Proud Indian is a troll.
However, your grandfather’s rule against speaking anything other than English in his house wasn’t really necessary. This becomes apparent if you look at intergenerational trends in language assimilation.
Here’s the data on this:
The vast majority of first-generation immigrants who come to the US as children speak English well. (E.g. “79 percent of first-generation Mexican children and 88 percent of Chinese speak English well (or very well).”)
Bilingualism is common among second-generation children. (“Among second-generation Hispanics, 92 percent speak English well or very well, even though 85 percent speak at least some Spanish at home.”)
English-only is the predominant pattern by the third generation. (“Among Asians, the percentage [of the third generation] who speak only English is 92 percent, with the Chinese at 91 percent and Koreans at 93 percent.”)
High immigration levels of the 1990s do not appear to have weakened the forces of linguistic assimilation.
Source: The Migration Information Source, a project of the Migration Policy Institute (an independent, non-partisan, non-profit think tank in Washington, DC). Report available at http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?id=282
I think what Bill is trying to say his father made sure that his family recognized that they needed to make the effort to communicate with their adopted homeland, not the other way around.
Your stats are real nice, but the reality is that people who live in areas where there is a high concentration of multi ethnic people encounter enough people who think it everyone around them who needs to work to understand their language to wish more people took Bill’s fathers approach.
I live in Brooklyn, NY. Most of the people I grew up with had families who felt the way Bill’s dad does.
But in recent years it seems that learning English, or the culture of the place that recent arrivals to America have chosen to live, in isn’t high on the priority list.
Remember, here in US it is taboo to have a national identity of our own nowadays.
I agree that customer service when outsourced is never quite the same. Language doesn’t pose as much as a barrier as culture does. Also, sometimes common idiomatic expressions are not understood.
That being said, if any company can make the outsourced service model work, then it will be Apple just because of their general quality of innovation.
Do you guys really think that this WASN’T coming? Apple had ** $1 BILLION ** in iPod sales during the holiday quarter. They are going to have to support all these devices.
Most likely, iPod support will get farmed out to India, while laptop and computer support will remain U.S. based. If the iPod stuff seems to work well, only then will Apple consider moving computer support offshore.
iPod is the dominant music device and it won’t matter if their customer services sucks. However, that is not true for the personal computer market, and that’s why I would assert that Apple will be careful.
Just Wondering, you’re right that at the point when Susie Homemaker calls tech support, she just wants her iBook fixed. No quibble about that.
But you missed the point. Let’s unwind the tape a bit, shall we?
The real question is what how Susie Homemaker’s previous experiences — say, in her formative years — have prepared her to making a good faith effort to communicate with people who might speak differently from her.
Suppose she had learned a foreign language in school, if she had taken part in cultural exchange programs, or had traveled outside the US, then it’s likely that she might have had some real practice in communicating with people who don’t speak English the same way she does.
That was the point I was trying to make: In an increasingly globalized world, it’s a matter of when, not if, you’ll find it useful or necessary to communicate with someone who speaks differently from you.
The globalization genie is out of the bottle, folks, and it isn’t going back.
In response to this, we all have a choice. We can dig in your heels, or we can get ahead of the curve. (I suppose we could try to ignore it altogether, but I doubt that would work for long…)
I submit that the positive alternative is to get ahead of this curve *now*. This way we can benefit in many areas of our lives (not just a tech support call) by learning to communicate with people elsewhere in the world. And this is an increasingly valuable skill as economies globalize.
Just Wondering wrote: “But in recent years it seems that learning English, or the culture of the place that recent arrivals to America have chosen to live, in isn’t high on the priority list.”
I can understand how it might seem that way, but all the available data comparing immigrants in 1990 vs 2000 (i.e. the recent arrivals) point to these immigrants following largely the same pattern as previous waves of immigrants. (Of course, there are individual and regional variations, but the overall pattern remains intact.)
So all we have to do is just wait a generation or two. It is not necessary to abolish the parental language from the home, because the vast majority of children and grandchildren will most likely become proficient in English anyway, regardless of what they or their elders speak at home.
This is probably the worst idea I have ever heard from apple. If I only speak English and not another language why would I want someone to help me out tha t can’t speak English. My parents have a Dell which they got before they new how good a Mac was. I called the tech support a couple of times for my parents computer and I was never able to understand a word they would say. How is apple even going to consider this? If you are not able to understand someone on the phone how would they be any help?????
lets see….
Apple opens call center in India. Jobs that could have gone to Americans in areas that could have used the jobs and the cities that they are in could have given tax breaks, aren’t going to get them. Is it the training? Are Indian techs better that American? Maybe its the cost of workers here? Unions? Medical care?
Thats a shame, isn’t it. Thinking about the cost of workers in India instead of home grown. Is Apple going to pay for me to learn Hindu and whatever dialect that spoken at the other end so that I can understand whoever responds?
It would be great if Apple set it up in any of the states hit by Katrina. Think of the publicity, think of the number f highly trained personnel available for work, think of the tax deals any of these cities would give Apple if it just opened up SOMETHING there.
My musings 2c
MDN: states
keep it in these United States
“I submit that the positive alternative is to get ahead of this curve *now*. This way we can benefit in many areas of our lives (not just a tech support call) by learning to communicate with people elsewhere in the world. And this is an increasingly valuable skill as economies globalize.”
Well I am glad we have years of poor customer service ahead of us to look forward to.
Just a senseless Google bomb
http://www.bkpfd.org
What are you reading down this far in the posts for?
Hey EZMac, according to “Accented” the problem is on your end not theirs. Take a class. Embrace globalization, butchered English, and scripted phone support.
After all, it’s the wave of the future. But make sure you make it as easy as possible for “Mike” on the other end of the phone to understand you, not the other way around.
Gypsy, that is the kind of forward thinking that is frowned upon in both government and big business.
You are not thinking in terms of bottom line and dividends. Get your priorities straight, this isn’t about making customer service better, or providing jobs for Americans, it’s about lining pockets and it’s up to you to start picking up a second language to make sure the fat cats can do just that.
Yea, I know I’m not up on things. Something to do with my upbringing I guess.
And as far as learning a second language, I already have smatterings of Spanish, Jive (or whatever its called now), Korean and Chinese. My English is beginning to suffer.
And by the way, me and business never got along. I was odds with my managers, bosses and whoever showed any level of studipity. I don’t look at the bottom line or dividends. And I DO think that keeping jobs HERE should be top priority. I know a lot of people that are looking for jobs in all types of fields.
As far as the governement is concerned, I try not think of it while I’m dreaming of retiring to British Columbia.
So I guess I’m just not with it and loving it.
If you call tech support you’ll find they are already there–at least it sounds like it from the very thick and difficult to understand accent.
Don’t you think that if your calling from your country reguardless of where it is and you call a tech guy for help that he should be speaking the language that you are speaking so that you can understand what is going on. And by the way why should I support one of the few American companies going to another country just because its cheaper thats total bullshit. I am sick of the United States giving jobs away so that we can hire someone for far less thats just stupid. We give jobs away and then wonder why our economy isn’t going so well.
One of the worst moves apple could make. I know several people who have had to hang up on both verizon and dell tech support because they just couldn’t understand the accents. It doesn’t matter who good the person is if you can’t understand them.
Hey, it could be worse.
They could move it to France. You can’t understand them either and they are arrogant bastards as well.
Bill, you miss the point entirely. The point is that Americans are bigoted about a language that isn’t their own, and your last diatribe makes it even more clear. No one said anything about not learning English while living in the US. You bring up a red-herring, there by dodging the real issue. You accuse people of not wanting to learn English, but you really have no idea if they are trying to learn English or not. Every foreigner I know of is trying to learn English. English is a very difficult language, so maybe you should think about cutting them some slack while they try to learn a hard language. Or is that too un-American for you?
Bastards… I’m dead serious. This is the #1 reason I won’t go back to Dell. I just about gnawed my arm off dealing with their support desk when I was trying to return a monitor.
And my company’s helpdesk for its employees is based out of India. When I give them descriptions to fill into the resolution fields I need to spell out easy words like deploy and provide. And as if Apple needs to save any more money on its 20-30% profit margins. Greedy bastards. I’m ordering my first Apple since my IIe and I’m dead serious if they pull this crap I will seriously consider going back to Windows when it comes time to upgrade and go with some third party company like Alienware, Voodoo PC, or such that still IS based in the US.
141st post!
Woo Hoo!
Yes, americans have a great american accent. But the real problem is very few know shit about computers.
You’ve gotta bear with the accent if you need customer support. As such the number of mac users in US is very small. Out of that, how many of them are technically sound? Out of that, how many are are willing to work as tech support? Out of that, how many are willing to work at 8 dollars an hour. I would say around 3 people in the US.
MDN Magic word(s): Fuck off
Big Al, your mother is from France.
Why should Apple support the economy of the USA, when they can support the economy of India? Duh.
I mean, look at “Big Al”. He outsourced his own mother to France. Now there is a true patriot.
I’m not much a fan of outsourcing myself but, most of us in this forum I’m sure, knows that there is an Apple store not to far from where we live. Why not just go there?! First and foremost you actually speak with a real person who also has direct access to support in Cuppertino.
What a bunch of ignorant, small-town-american racists you bunch are. A call center in India would be as capable of providing first class support as one situated in Cupertino. There is a big wide world outside of the US, with people equally capable. The only reason an Indian call center might give poorer support is if Apple skimp on the training and investment. And that would be true of the good ol’ US of A too. Brown skins and Delhi accents does not imply less capable staff or poorer support. If you struggle to undertstand non-American English accents then I suggest you get yourselves a passport and see the rest of the world a bit more. It doesn’t bite.
Just what we need. yet another person in India taking jobs away from the US and the people that made the company a success int he first place. All to save a buck for Apple. Just so they can join the ranks of Dell, ReplayTV, Tivo and hundreds of other “U.S.” companies that will take our money but refuse to put any more back into it’s economy in the form of wages for its’ workers. Maybe I shouldn’t have bought that G5 DP 2.7 6 months ago….
My #1 complaint about tech support is having to deal with foreigners who barely speak english. I hope that Apple reconsiders this action.
However, since I have never actually used Apple’s tech support (the discussion boards are so much more efficient) I can’t say that I’ll be affected either way.
Montex – I fully agree. I find American support sucks too.
Apple Computer. Designed by a Brit. Made by a Chinaman. Distributed by an Irishman. Supported by an Indian. Profits retained by a Yank.
Few corrections…
Apple Computer.
Established by a rich Finnish investor and an Arab and a Polish guy. Os devoloped by a Armenian guy. Profits retained by a Saudi Sheikh.
(Mike Markkula, Steve Jobs & Steve Wozniak)
(Avie Tevanian, Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal of Saudi Arabia)
Don´t forget all of those in Taiwan, Korea and Ireland who makes these beautiful machines!
Oh.. and the Brit who designs these machines is so cute.
Isn´t it fun to enjoy about the Internet (Brit) and use iChat (Finnish guy) and use your mobile phone (Finnish Guy).
Now I go and eat Pasta (Italian version of Chinese food) or a hamburger (American version of Finnish food).
MDN word: Because
Damn! I forgot!
WELCOME INDIA TO OUR HAPPY MAC FAMILY!
Thanks Steve.
Damn! I forgot!
Those proud Chinese workers who make iPod´s and those Australian tech guys and girls who gives support to Chinese Mac owners.
And remember that AAPL is not an American company..
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AAPL is a Californian company
MDN word: many
Actually I think that I will eat Kebab instead (German version of Turkish foood).
“What a bunch of ignorant, small-town-american racists you bunch are. A call center in India would be as capable of providing first class support as one situated in Cupertino. There is a big wide world outside of the US, with people equally capable. The only reason an Indian call center might give poorer support is if Apple skimp on the training and investment. And that would be true of the good ol’ US of A too. Brown skins and Delhi accents does not imply less capable staff or poorer support.”
Tell that to Dell customers.
Just Wondering wrote: “Well I am glad we have years of poor customer service ahead of us to look forward to.”
Well, I deplore poor customer service as much as anyone. And for the record, I am fully in favor of companies providing technical and language training to their customer-facing employees.
If customer service is bad, then as others have pointed out this is largely the fault of the managers. Here’s some evidence, admittedly anecdotal, that this is true:
I attended an internal presentation (at a large multinational company that shall remain nameless), where a new manager put up a chart showing how the number of customer service telephone calls answered on time had dipped from 95% to 83% over a period of several weeks, and then rebounded again some time thereafter.
The reason for the decline and rebound? The new manager had enough class not to come right out and say it, but it was clear that the previous manager had dropped the ball and was fired. When the new guy came on, he made the necessary changes to improve service, and then on-time performance rebounded. Shows how bad management can hurt, and how good management can make a difference.
These days, the big idea in customer service and call centers is frontline empowerment, meaning that the customer gets a satisfactory resolution on the spot, with the first service rep they talk to.
An ardent proponent of this approach is, believe it or not, Disney, particularly in their theme parks. But the biggest difficulty in implementing frontline empowerment was Disney’s own management, who feared that their cast members (ahem, employees) would “give away the store” to customers. The underlying attitude of the managers’ apparently was one of distrust, that their customers obviously wanted nothing more than to rip off the company any way they could.
The reality is that the vast majority customers have legitimate concerns, and Disney’s managers had to train themselves to overcome their initial inclinations, and avoid intervening when their employees are handling a customer’s problem.
So it goes…
Reality Check, you need a reality check. Not wanting to have to span a communication gap in order to get back to work does not make someone a racist.
According to Websters: racism, n. belief in the superiority of a particular race.
No one here has said that the Indians are less capable of providing competent tech support because they are Indain. Anyone can do the job provided they have adequate training. Our point is that when you’re dealing with someone over the phone a language barrier is harder to overcome than if you were dealing face to face. At least with body language you have another way of getting your message accross.
Don’t be an ass. The world is full of bigots and most of them live OUTSIDE of the U.S. Adding a language barrier to an already stressful situation isn’t a positive move. Sometimes companies need to look past their bottom line in order to provide first class service. That means Irish users should be able to get Irish tech support and Japanese users should get Japanese tech support and <gasp, I can’t belive he said that!> Americans should get American tech support. If you want to travel the world on your own time, I think thats great. Check out Budapest – it’s one of my favorite cities. But when I’m working and I’m forced to stop because of a computer problem, I NEED to get back to work as quickly as possible. A language barrier is not going to help that happen.
I find it very interesting that you have more concern for the tech support provider than for the person who is trying to earn a living using their Apple computer.
Whatever you say Bill – but not all Indians are incomprehensible you know. It’s up to Apple to recruit staff that can be understood. An educated Indian accent can actually be rather beautiful IMHO.
I prefer Talin or Prague to Budapest, but Budapest is nice. Fortunately in my job I get to visit the 26 NATO nations on a regular basis.
OK maybe I made some stupid remarks about giving jobs away and stuff sorry for that. All I am trying to say is that I want someone that is going to help me out with my problem to be able to communicate with me as effeciently as possible. If I can’t understand that person who am I suppose to get the problem fixed. This goes for anyone no matter what part of the world you live in. If I were Chinese I wouldn’t want want an American to try and help me out.
I havn’t called apple’s support line in a long time, do they have options for languages when you call like push 1 for English 2 for Spanish ect……
well if you were to push one of the languages, the language should be spoken correctly or at least you would hope for it to be right? To me its just common sense to have a tech speak the language of the customer properly.
Well, the greatest thing I’ve learned from this thread is that the only bigots to be found in the world are Americans. And thank goodness for that. The rest of the world is perfect, and is free of racism, false cultural superiority, imperialism, etc.
There are small-minded people all over the world. There are many people from all over the world that only speak their native language (think: little old Italian ladies). There are people from many countries living in America today that don’t speak a lick of English. Alternately, there are intelligent, multi-cultural, multi-language speaking Americans living in America. Ergo, Americans in general are no different than the rest of the world in general.
Get off of bashing Americans. Just like you, we’re smart, dumb, rich, poor, enlightened, narrow-minded, and everything in between.
People who bash Americans are posers, and are exactly what they think they hate about Americans.
MW: projecting
Why do so many of you hate capitalism?
With love from Apu:
“Serving the customer is merriment enough for me. Thank you, come again. See? Most enjoyable.”
Customer: I’d like $2 of gas please. Apu: That’ll be 4.20.
“Oh look. It’s Mr. Homer, my favorite customer. Please feel free to flip through my Playdudes and eat my raw bacon and tell me to go back to some country I’m not actually from.”
“Please do not offer my God a peanut.”
“Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie!”
“You must always follow your dreams. Like my old dream of coming to America and starting a family… or my new dream, of ditching my family, and sneaking back to India in disguise!”
“Yes, yes, I know the procedure for armed robbery. I do work in a convenience store, you know.”
“Good rice, good curry. Good Gandhi, lets hurry!”
“I did not come to this country illegally to see it mocked.”
“Yes! I am a citizen! Now which way to the welfare office? I’m kidding, I’m kidding, I work, I work.”
I called AT&T to cancel my account. This is an excersize in futility by the way. The INDIAN guy tells me “We have to create a NEW account to cancel the old one”.
I said: “F&^k you, give me a supervisor please”.
“That won’t help you sir”
Me: “Wanna bet?”
It helped. Account canceled.
I HATE those f&%king people.
“The one and only social responsibility of business is to make profits.” —Milton Friedman, Nobel Prize in Economics
I will not comment on weather I agree or disagree with that statement. You’ll have to take that one up with Mr. Friedman himself.
AAPL:
[1] Publicly Traded Company
[2] Stockholders demand returns on their investment. They don’t care what a company produces as long as it PROFITS THEM. APPL could produce the best computers/OS in the world, or be a publicly traded large national pizza chain for all they care.
[3] Following 1 and 2 above, AAPL will do whatever it takes to continue growth at the </b>least cost</b> to meet sharholders’ expectations.
Like it or not, this is the nature of the market.
I don’t claim to have all the answers – it’s scope is way beyond any one post or person can encompass.
Yes, Apple is innovative, forward-thinking, and creative in it’s approach to computing. This is why we are so passionate about our Macs.
But there is also a side to Apple that is strictly business, and I believe that this news falls right into that category.
Minor correction:
[3] Following 1 and 2 above, AAPL will do whatever it takes to continue growth at the LEAST COST to meet shareholders’ expectations.
If you don’t make a profit, you don’t survive, and therefore benefit no one.
But this will be VERY bad for business and profits. So less benefit for ALL involved, stockholders, Apple users, and people who work for Apple, Apple dealers, employees of dealers, employees of Apple users, the list just keeps on going.
In the United States, we speak American Standard English. We do not speak the King’s or Queen’s English and do not wish to. What the Brits consider correct is incorrect by our grammar, spelling and syntax and the inverse is true.
The British and Americans are two peoples separated by a common language. Don’t know who said it first, but they had it right.
I like cheese
Folks, wake up!!
This ‘article’ is an absurdly lazy piece.
Apple has been using Indian call centers in Bangalore for at least the past two years.
This is a known_fact_.
To pick this up as a piece of ‘news’ makes MacDailyNews look like yet another amateurish Mac website with questionable journalistic chops. It’s all about getting advertising traffic.
I’m also saddened by the various flames and trolls. Whether you agree with the policy or not, it denigrates everyone when the rhetoric resorts to racist slurs and attacks. I’m personally not in favor of outsourcing due to many of the valid reasons mentioned above. Foremost, the language barrier is troublesome and prevents efficient technical discussion and analysis between customer and technicians. I’ve experienced this firsthand on a number of occasions.
Hee, hee. Weep you ignorant fools who dare question India’s supremacy.
Americans! Grow up please, stop talking non-sense. Indians are much qualified than the local technical dudes in State. If you have so much trouble with the Indian accents, then stop buying computers which are already made in China or made by some other countries, but luckily not ” MADE IN USA”. You have nothing left to be proud on. You sleep on “made in China beds”, you answer your phones by using “made in china” phones, you eat in dishes “made in china”. You leave for the work wearing dresses “made in BanglaDesh or Pakistan or India”. You drive cars “made in Korea or other country”. So what do you have to be proud? Nothing!!!!
Indians are proud to have their accent, they are proud to speak so many languages which is a great asset, but what do you have? Can you speak so many languages? If you have so much problem with the Indian accent, then why don’t you kick out all those Spanish people who does not know the one word of English except “No English”.
Wish you were so qualified that Apple and other companies would not have need to move their call centeres in India.
So please it’s time to think deeply, one time will come that other countries will be running America, and you will lose your own identity.
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