“To some, Apple has had five chances to build a proper Mac OS X Finder and has failed each and every time. The Classic Mac Finder was a magnificent achievement in software engineering and the Mac OS X version was a pathetic imitation. Their logic has it that Apple should have just ported it over to its “world class” operating system without any alteration whatever. That would have been a great accomplishment and they should not have tampered with success,” Gene Steinberg writes for MacNightOwl.
“I will not, for the sake of this commentary, get involved in any speculation about the alleged desire on the part of the Mac OS X programming team, headed in large part by former NeXT people, to ditch as many traditional Mac elements as they could. That sort of speculation isn’t going to change the situation one whit. Instead, let’s look at the existing Finder, and see if there’s room for improvement,” Steinberg writes. “Some of the folks delivering their own wish lists for Leopard suggest that the Finder is way overdue for a major overhaul. It’s time for Apple to sacrifice some of the needless eye candy visual effects and do something practical that will provide a true 21st century file viewing mechanism.”
Full article here.
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Hey coolfactor,
Check your keyboard. The Command key is the Apple key.
As Steve J would say, “speed, speed and more speed”. Finder’s main problem is that it is too slow, even on a 1.5 PB with 2 gigs of RAM. Updating it to work with Mactels may, if we are lucky, solve that problem for all of us.
Carbon will not be ported to Intel.
Had to laugh at that statement. If you thinkn carbon’s not getting ported along with everything else, you’re sadly deluded. Most of the big apps, including Logic (IIRC) and FCP are Carbon. Photoshop, Quark, Dreamweaver et al are all Carbon. It’s a big enough job for them to switch to xCode and sort out the byte order of sections of code let alone completely re-writing for Cocoa.
Carbon WILL be part of Leopard, and WILL be part of the Intel OS-X.
Hopefully though, they’ll introduce a Cocoa Finder and one that has a certain consistency to the look and feel, is fast, and doesn’t (for example) get locked up if the iDisk is not responding.
Nope, OS 9 Finder was snappier. The OS X Finder is an improvement in some ways, and a degradation in other ways. I found the article had some merit: there IS room for improvement.
One other thing I just thought of: the arrow buttons (backward and forward). I really hate that the “Backward” button will only go back to the folder you started from when working from within an app. It should go all the way to the top of the hierarchy no matter where you start from.
I much prefer OS X’s Finder to OS 9’s. Having said that, there is still room for improvement. My current annoyances: Folders and files that jump out of view when you rename them. Default column widths in column view should be auto-sized. The final column in column view is often partially off-screen in save and open dialogs. It is still S-L-O-W at times; waiting for the beach ball in Finder is the worst. I think it would be more intuitive in list view if you could click anywhere on a row to select the respective item; the row highlight is misleading. A new and easy way to assign Spotlight keywords would be great.
Default Folder X is a great utility. I think it adds a lot to Finder’s usability.
Avi has it half right. The reason for the lack of changes in the OS X finder is because it has to be the SAME finder that OS 9 uses. I believe that classic launches up a separate finder on run, but it accesses the same files and folders that OS X does, so they both have to be compatible with each other. The limitation of the finder being Carbon is because of this requirement.
Since intel macs will drop compatibility with classic, the finder can more freely mutate when that occurs. Will likely be kick-started with leopard, and then completely revamp in 10.6
What should Apple do about the Mac OS X Finder?
Whatever they want to.
You want something different? Make your own.
I agree with the author. Finder needs A LOT of work! I’ve used the finder since OS 6. I preferred the Classic finder. Even in Tiger, my productivity in the FInder is now worse than in classic.
I’ve asked before, why is there not a contextual menu where I can control/right click on an file and move or send it to a folder or wherever I want? Right now I have to drag an item to a folder within a folder etc, waiting for them to all hopefully pop open, and then lose my place and try again.
Or I have to open separate folders which is fine but ahrd to do if you have your preferences selected to not open a new window. I can make it so that the finder will “always open folders in a new window” or not, but how do I select these options “on the fly” without going into preferences each time?
Creating links in the sidebar is the only easy way I have found to trasnfer a file from one filder to another really. But I don’t want to have to do that for one file transfer per day.
Also, the “save” command has always been buggy in OS X. I name the file I want to save but if I accidentally click on an existing file in an exisiting folder, it renames my file to that! Very frustrating!
On that note, Safari, once again, has lost it’s “save file as” option where I can actually choose where I want to save a file.
I think the finder is just fine, and for me it also works at it did in OS9. However the Finder Search was a lot better in Panther. Just using the little search bar on top of every window proved a much quicker search than using Spotlight now. Spotlight works great – though not for me – but the Panther Finder Search should be brought back in its simplicity to quickly search, and actually finding files!
I don’t know what this guy is talking about. There is nothing wrong with the finder in OSX. I certainly don’t want to go back to an OS9 finder.
Love the guy (earlier) who said (words to this effect) “OS X is great as it is; oh, yeah, as long as I have Quick Keys.”
Point is, OS X is great, and most of us would never, ever want to go back. But if it were perfect, there wouldn’t be so many add-ons making money: Default Folder X, Quick Keys, SnapzPro, Suitcase X, Super GetInfo, File Buddy and on and on*. My main complaint (versus pre-OS X) is speed. I just think that on a machine as brawny as a dual G5, stuff at the desktop level should just… happen faster. Aqua’s great, but give me speed.
*Yes, I know I jumped a bit past the Finder there, but those are all tchotchkes built to handle some function also addressed by OS X in a much more limited way, so…
I thought the whole point of Spotlight was to eliminate the need for hierarchical, folder-based organization. Spending a lot of time improving the file viewer would be focusing resources on the old way instead of blazing forward on the new (and better) way.
I agree with others that instead should work on improving Spotlight and Finder search speeds.
Path Finder is an excellent alternative – although I’m sure there’s a philosophical discussion to be had about how much integrated functionality a file browser should have, and how much should be left to individual applications. Path Finder aims to offer everything itself, including PDF viewer, editor, image manipulation, etc.
Brodie – Spotlight in no way eliminates the need for hierarchical folder-based organization. It’s complementary, and great if you’re disorganised. However, hierarchical folder-based organisation still has an awful lot going for it – it’s far faster and more efficient than searching for stuff all the time. Ultimately, a search will always return a long list of stuff, most of which is irrevelant. You then need to look through all the crap and select the thing you were looking for. It’s actually far easier to navigate straight to a folder and select what you want to use. Humans like hierarchies and order – it’s actually a far more natural way of organising information than no structure with search. What’s more Spotlight is in need of serious improvement – it’s really very slow (Google desktop is way faster under Windows) and I wish it would cache my searches, instead of searching for everything from scratch every time I search for the same item.
down: “I name the file I want to save but if I accidentally click on an existing file in an exisiting folder, it renames my file to that! Very frustrating!”
Funny you should mention that, because it is one of my favorite features of Finder. I’ve never had it happen to me accidentally, though.
Mokas Uncle:
“Having used both the pre Mac OS X Finder (8+9) and the OS X Finder I must say that the OS X Finder is much better. But it is indeed still lacking many of the nice features I was used to when I used the NeXTSTEP Finder.”
He’s right.
The problem with the file browser in OS X is not that it is not enough like the Finder in the Mac OS. The problem is that it is not enough like NeXT’s file browser. For example, “column view” is great, but loses much of its point when you have no shelf to work with. Apple buggered up what NeXT already had merely to please whining old-tyme Mac users. It’s a crying shame.
I believe the Classic Finder was pretty good for it’s time… that is until the late nineties… the Mac OS X Finder improves on many things but ultimately fails by trying to be both spatial and browser-like. These philosophies are mutually exclusive in my opinion and don’t go well together.
What I’d like to see from Apple is a fresh answer to the question: “How do I access and manipulate my files?”
A deep pondering of this question will hopefully lead to other such as: “Why files?”
When we question the basic assumptions of today’s GUI we come closer, I hope, to revolutionizing interface design and usage of a PC/Mac.
Will this happen. Probably not.
What was once the heart and sole of the Mac, the current ‘Finder’, or what ever you want to call it, has been relegated to just another app – and an average one at that. In a nutshell – aesthetically it’s ugly. Its slow. It hangs. It’s inconsistent – all the hallmarks of Microsoft software, not Apple. Even developers today are critical of Apples inability to deliver a more robust Finder – one that doesn’t act and feel ‘glued’ together.
I agree with Gene Steinberg. I would have expected a greater achievement after 4 years from Apple, but it seems these days Apple are more interested in the sizzle, not the steak.
What’s even more amazing is 2 guys from cocoatech.com have done a far better job of getting it right with Pathfinder, and Apples team of engineers can’t, or just can’t be bothered.
Reality Check:
“I wish it would cache my searches, instead of searching for everything from scratch every time I search for the same item.”
Why not make a Smart Folder if it’s something you search for often? It sounds like that’s kind of what you’re talking about.
Finder, the dock, putting apps folder on dock, etc. are all slow, awkward ways to locate and launch apps. Windows’ Start button has always been a good idea, admit it or not, to lauch apps. The RECENT ITEMS of the Blue Apple menu is the closest thing we have to a fast way to locate and launch apps. The Finder is pathetic. It’s like opening MY COMPUTER in windows and going through window after window to find what you want. It’s time to do away with it. You can only put so many things on the dock and desktop before it gets ridiculous. The dock is cool but lack of text with icons often causes hesitations and miscues. Turning RECENT ITEMS into a full-blown application navigator is the way to go IMHO. OSX just doesn’t cut it when it comes to locating and launching apps compared to, ahem, Windows. Anyone who uses both OSs agree?
I do think the Finder needs some serious attention from Apple and the user community. One thing Ive seen in Vista screenshots are great thumbnails of documents and PDFs instead of a generic icon. I would like to see the info panel for files to be a bit more powerful and allow the user to view the document in a popup window similar to the Dictionary function ‘command, shift, D’ in Tiger, instead of having to open Preview, Office, or textedit. Also the finder doesnt handle pictures as well as it should. I have a large collection of gifs and jpegs that I dont keep in iPhoto as they are things Ive found online or been emailed, but didnt want in my photo program. I would also like the ability to keep my desktop icon free if I should choose.
For leopard in general I would like to see a more powerful Clipboard built in. Also to squeeze in some more functionality into the menubar. I really get a lot of use out of MenuCalender.app and You:ControlTunes.app. Also I think a lot of people have found color labels very useful and might be interested in the capability to change the color of Application windows for those of us that are extreme multitaskers. Spotlight is great, but it could use a but more refinement, I used to use Quicksilver, but found that I could do most of the things I was using it for with Spotlight, and so far there are only a few things I miss from it. It would be nice to have Automator actions included in the spotlight menu.
Safari can take a few pointers from Flock and Firefox, Webkit is opensource now right? How about making it easier for developers to build extentions for Safari? or Including support for del.icio.us bookmarks, flickr, and blogger (Since Apple and Google have some ties anyway). Safari could also add some features to its bookmarks, quick search inside Safari, try to make it easier to organize bookmarks inside folders or better yet allow the user to mark bookmarks with labels like Gmail or del.icio.us. To be honest I have come to hate folders and find smart labels much more useful and save time. Also I sometimes find that I have identical bookmarks in several folders and would like the ability to show duplicates like in iTunes.
I think a lot of Mac users would like to be able to keep Windows Media Player off their machine and use Quicktime to view those WMV files they find online. How about allowing Mac users the ability to convert WMA & WMV ala iTunes for Windows.
Also Apple needs an easy way for users to run maintenence scripts, I for one dont leave my powerbook on all night to allow UNIX to run its scripts and have been using Mac Janitor weekly to get the best performance.
Automator still takes a bit too long to load up on my 1.25Ghz Powerbook, granted I could up my RAM but as Apple is selling all its machines at 512MB it would be nice to see some speed increases in Automator.
In iLife I really want iPhoto to load faster, scan through pictures faster, labels, versioning like in Aperature. Maybe Flickr and Blogger functions. Also it would be great if Apple would make more how to videos for iLife, especially Garageband, I saw a great presentation at the Apple store in NYC and learned a lot about Garageband that I had no idea about.
iMaki: A faster solution than either the Finder or Start menu is to use a launcher like LaunchBar, QuickSilver, or Butler. It’s a great way to launch anything without cluttering your Dock or having an unwieldy Start menu.
I would like to see the function from Classic wherein you were told how many items and how big the items were in the trash before you deleted them.
Other functions/features it would be good to have include:
1. the window shade function added as an option,
2. add a force empty of trash even if the permissions are not correct
3. Automatic addition of thumbnails for all pictures
4. Quick functionality to watch a simple slide show of all the pictures in a folder
5. Voice modem capability so I could use the modem to dial someone and the computer as a speaker phone
6. A quit all running applications except the finder function
8. The old “clean up the desktop” function from classic
I am sure there are more but that is a few right off the top of my head.
I am desperate for Quit All Open Applications option under the Apple menu.
Other than that, I agree with the author of the article that speed and consistency of behaviour are the main issues that indisputably require attention.
An interesting thing happened to me the other day that highlighted a problem with both the Finder and Spotlight. My default download location for a particular app is to an external HDD, which I forgot to power on.
The download happened anyway, but when I realised what I had done, I could then not locate the downloaded item with either Finder or Spotlight, despite the fact I knew the exact file name. I had to stuff around and find the folder “volumes” and found a new “Lacies 500-1” had been created. I moved the file to the now activated Lacie 500, and then had to deleted the “new” volume.
Very weird!!