“Macintosh users proved to me that they’re a dedicated and strong-willed group of compute [sic] users – unafraid to let their feelings be known. Then again, that’s also true of Tony Soprano,” Andrew Kantor writes for USA Today. Kantor’s article is a response to our article from September 03, 2004 entitled “USA Today writer attempts to downplay Apple’s role in Virginia Tech supercomputer.” Kantor describes MacDailyNews as, “a small Web site called Mac Daily News [sic],” and accuses MDN of throwing “a tantrum featuring as much spittle and venom as they could squeeze out of their keyboards.” We stand by our original article because, to paraphrase Andrew, “We can like what we want, hate what we want, and use what we want. We like Apple. You like Windows. Tell us how wrong we are all you want; we still prefer Apple, and at least we base our opinions on the use of both platforms’ current OS versions.” Also, we were right, which helps; the proof is the very existence of this article. Kantor doth protest too much, wethinks.
“Despite the foam-at-the-mouth accusations from the MDN folks, I don’t hate Macs. (All right, I hate OS9, which I’m stuck on at work. I also wasn’t thrilled with Windows 3.0.) Apple did a brilliant job with OSX – it created a slick, powerful, beautiful computer. It’s too bad only Apple sells them,” Kantor writes.
MacDailyNews Take: That was froth from our cappuccino, Andrew. And why is it too bad only Apple sells Macs? Isn’t that a major reason why Macs tend to work seamlessly while Wintel’s hodgepodge of manufacturers creates a morass of issues, tech calls, and headaches for the unfortunate users of that platform? Apple has chosen to control the whole widget in order to present a better product. Throwing too many cooks into the Mac kitchen would diminish Apple’s slick, powerful, and beautiful computers. It’s good that only Apple makes Macs. The Wintel way is right if market share and turning the personal computer into a commodity are your goals, not if the satisfaction of your end user is your goal. Mac users are generally happy with their Macs, most Windows users cannot fathom being happy with a personal computer, for obvious reasons.
“I think Macs do a lot right, and some wrong. Ditto for Windows. Ditto for Linux. I use Windows because of the amount of software available, because of the choice of manufacturers, and because it’s easily compatible with the rest of the world. By the time OSX came around and eliminated that last problem for the Mac, I was already comfortable with my PC,” Kantor writes.
MacDailyNews Take: We know from personal experience with both Mac OS X 10.3 and Windows XP Pro that Macs get quite a lot right and not too much wrong. We’re not just comfortable with our Macs because our work has stuck us on Windows 95. We use the best of both worlds and the Mac OS X platform is markedly better, it’s really no contest. Windows is kludgy and gets quite a bit wrong (malware, viruses, spyware, adware, unintuitive user interface, crashes, etc.). And let’s get serious, Linux on the desktop for the average user isn’t yet here. We use current Macs and Windows, but choose to use our Macs because the software we need is easily available on the Mac (there are over 18,000 Macintosh applications and software titles) and we’ve already explained that we don’t subscribe to the theory that choice of different manufacturers all trying to make the same end product is beneficial (unless you’re trying to drive down prices and increase end user frustration).
“But guess what? Even if I did hate the Mac, I’m allowed. I can like what I want, hate what I want, and use what I want. I like orange. You like blue. Tell me how wrong I am all you want; I still prefer orange,” Kantor writes. “Curse-filled letters screaming and calling me an idiot for not using a Mac certainly won’t convince me that it’s a community I want to join. As one person on MDN put it, ‘People want a computer, not a cult.'”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Why would anyone bother writing about something they don’t understand and haven’t properly experienced? Andrew Kantor, as described by USA Today, is a “technology writer, pundit, and know-it-all who covers technology for the Roanoke Times.” Well, the Roanoke Times desperately needs to upgrade their Mac computers’ operating systems. Apple killed Mac OS 9 over two years ago. Shouldn’t “technology writers” proclaiming to “know-it-all” be using current technology instead of a dead operating system?
The basic facts speak volumes:
– Mac users generally love their Macs.
– Windows users can’t understand enjoying a personal computer that much.
If someone spent, say 8-10 hours per day using a product, don’t you think they’d wonder why those Mac-using people seem to really love their computers, while they just tolerate their Windows machine when they’re not utterly ambivalent about it or totally frustrated by it? Wouldn’t you wonder why Mac users love their computer when you and none of your Windows-using friends can muster more than “a computer is a tool, it’s a machine, not a religion” mantra? Would you try to fool yourself by pretending that there’s some mysterious cult brainwashing these poor Mac people? Or would you finally stop and think, “hey, maybe there really is a better way!”
Since we’re just “a small Web site,” we’re sure Andrew won’t mind a nice, reasoned email or two from our readers who’ve read his full article. Send an email to Andrew Kantor by visiting his Kantor.com site’s contact page here.
I dunno, I think he’s trying to be neutral in his article, which shows remarkable restraint. Honestly, why do some people have to resort to name calling and ad hominem attacks? Were they raised by wolves?? Laying out an argument in a rational and reasonable manner will get a more positive response than going all flame-war on a guy with a jillion readers. Articles like this make the Mac communtity seem like a bunch of anti-social, emotionally stunted retards, all because some folks can’t present their side without going the profanity route and questioning a writer’s parentage.
The irony is, given the chance he probably would find OSX to be superior. If he’d take some initiative and go down to his local Apple dealer and check it out, instead of letting his newspaper’s inertia influence his decisions, he might then understand why we’re so dedicated. Perhaps he’ll be able to see through the name-calling and see that all of the responses from this site are a kick in the pants to get him to see the light…
just send him 39$ so he can get one spyware program removed .. and let him be .. poor guy
Just another dipsh*t anal-yst that has no clue what the f*ck he’s writing about. How these losers get paid for doing no work whatsoever is totally beyond me…
and maybe send him also a bus ticket so he can get to the nearest Apple store (as rogozhin suggested)
yeah, with a name like that i’ll be shot down. but the guy has a point. the article was about the super computer and was a great article about the super computer.
MDN basically attacked him for no reason. the discussion at mac rumors kinda proves that.
you guys find good news, but sometimes you heads are a little too far up steve’s butt. let the computers speak for themselves.
MDN is right. Send Andrew a sensible email that asks how he can make any informed judgments when he is stuck on OS 9 at work and admits he’s “already comfortable” with Windows. I even apologized for the previous emails that cursed and were offensive. I have assured him that there is no cult – we just have better computers than him and wish he would switch so he could enjoy computing more. You’d think a tech writer would want to enjoy computing, wouldn’t you?
(BTW: if MDN was so “small,” do you think Andrew would have bothered?)
He was trying to be nice,
Mac users bit his head off, with personal attacks. Once again you invite personal attacks on a person who is trying to be honest. He isn’t biased againist Mac’s, He is biased againist your bashing him and being wrong about it.
Grow up.
MDN just proved Andrew right.
Regarding the original MDN article – they have every right to critique Kantor’s anti-Mac slant. It was subtle, but it was there. And only on MDN will you find critiques of this kind. I agreed with MDN at the time and still do. You may not. To each his own.
Regarding this article from MDN and the best quote, “The Wintel way is right if market share and turning the personal computer into a commodity are your goals, not if the satisfaction of your end user is your goal. “
Spot on!
Too bad only Microsoft sells windows.
I truly think writers write these type of articles just so they can get email feedback from Mac users. A writer then gets thousands or whatever emails and then writes another column souting this fact. And why does another c article always follow? Because they write it in a style to confirm how important or widely read they are as a “Tech Expert” based on all of the repsonses recieved.
Most of these writers, this one for sure are just light weight wanna be’s. They wanna be a writer, tech expert, taken seriously. Well they are insignificant at all of the above. Mac users should ignore them and not respond. A hack is a hack.
I wrote the guy after the original article was published and didn’r rant, rave or otherwise act like a frustrated Dell user. A little civility is in order, but the guy is obviously a PC head. He states that he hates OS 9, which gives you an idea about how progressive the IT department at USA Today/Gannett is.
“We know from personal experience with both Mac OS X 10.3 and Windows XP Pro that Macs get quite a lot right and not too much wrong.”
Please tell us exactly what Macs do get wrong. People deserve to know both the good and the bad about Macs. If Mac users are truly as informed and objective as they claim to be, then they should be able to freely say what’s wrong about the Mac without fear of retaliation.
“Shouldn’t ‘technology writers’ proclaiming to ‘know-it-all’ be using current technology instead of a dead operating system?”
ROTFLMFAO!
I remember reading the original article that elicited all of the response, and I found it really minimized the role Apple played in providing the core architecture for the project. It seemed like a lot of credit was being dolled out, with a definite bias against admitting that Apple had really contributed anything beyond simply “making the boxes” used.
What I am getting at is MDN, although admittedly quite reactionary some of the time, plays a necessary role in the Macintosh community in rooting out (and rooting out quickly) such ant-mac sentiment that many tech media take against us on a regular basis. They have a front line approach of revealing and trying to correct this bias (or simply not tolerate bad reporting and misinformation of said media).
I find it interesting that this author has essentially been able to write a biased article, received a lot of reader flack about it (both “good” and “bad”) and has now chosen not only to whine about it, but separate two distinct segments of the Mac community and pit them successfully against one another – like one is better than the other for some reason.
Windows users don’t get it – they wonder where the secret meetings are and what the special mac-handshakes is this week and are amazed at how tight and defensive we can get as a group sometimes. When we function as the “underdog” to a certain extent when up against such monolithic powers as Microsoft, we need to be vocal when we are wronged in the press.
Apple is fighting a pretty crazy battle to stay alive (even though we have it pretty good on a day to day basis), and while the success of the iPod is a wonderful and happy thing (and I hope it will push computer sales), we have to be vigilant when the media spins stuff incorrectly.
The spin of the original article required a response, and that’s what he got.
(edited version of MacRumour post)
News about Cherry OS
“It’s been the biggest nightmare of my life,” Maui X-Stream software developer Arben Kryeziu said of the Internet passions and fraud accusations stirred by its claim and which have forced the company to delay selling the product over the Internet.
“The hackers smashed it all to hell. We had a bunch of servers up for this, and they just destroyed them,” he said. “The purists out there get their backs up about anything affecting Macs.”
http://starbulletin.com/2004/10/15/news/story2.html
I love his.. I can like blue. You can like green. We all like the smell of napalm in the morning, arguement.
As if there is no logical reason for liking Mac over Windows.
Tralalalala.. it’s all arbritary.. you like having icons on the left we like them on the right.. doodoodoo… there’s really no rationale to why i would invest $1000-2000 in hardware and software… it’s all arbitrary after all… I don’t have to explain WHY i ‘like’ something..
truth is, as much as MAC has a small market share, MDN represents a smaller share of MAC users.
it goes down every day that their followers write “1st Post!”, and that they do not have the humility to admit when they’ve gone too far.
I hope MDN and other MAC crazies don’t become what they most loath – an impediment to greater adoption of the best computer system on the market today and the foreseeable future.
i think this is my favorate part:
MacDailyNews Take: Why would anyone bother writing about something they don’t understand and haven’t properly experienced?
hmm. well the original article was about a supercomputer. now, MDN, how many of you editors have used the VT supercomputer?
giving mac users a bad name like ‘zealot’ is NOT the way to get people to switch. though it will get people like me to read other sites. if macintosh is the intelligent choice, then we, as a community, should pretent ourselves as such.
even against thurott, who is just a propagandist.
That’s why I always say to you morons, don’t go sending a bunch of stupid childish e-mail. If you want to write a civil, well thought out letter that’s fine, but every one of these stupid articles reported by MDN doesn’t deserve a flood of insulting e-mail.
I live in Roanoke, Va., and can attest that most of his other computing articles are pretty much a rah-rah for the status quo. He hasn’t been here very long though, and from his often haughty tone of his articles, I wonder if he wasn’t driven out from his previous soapbox.
He bases his comparison of WinXP, with OS9. That seems logical. Not.
When he gets called on it by some the more excitable in OUR community, he brays out ‘zealot’.
Geez, if you’re gonna call us names;-, couldn’t you come up with a new one? We’re just as tired of the out-right lies, faint praises, inaccurate specs, OUT-OF-DATE facts, finger pointing, irrational hatred, claims of software non-availability, claims of incompatibility, claims of equal security issues… … …
Andrew, next time you compare Mac OS with Windows OS, could you please compare the ‘features’ of a CURRENT version of OS X, and not discuss a very tiny portion of the whole communities users’ behavior against an inanimate object? Or maybe you could compare the the Chevy Optra against the loud Philipinos that drive the Chrysler Neon.
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I can understand why he is upset. A bunch of childish fools could not conduct themselves in a proper manner and sent the guy a ton of hate mail. What they should have done was write intelligent letters letting him know the virtues of the Mac and Mac OS X and that you disagree with his article.
Never fails…. a couple fools make the whole community look like arrogant childish dweebs.
The Dude abides
Hey, even IF people sent childish e-mails, this guy is SUPPOSED to be a professional writer. He needs to grow up and just accept that everything he writes is not going to be accepted by all.
His response was completely unprofessional. As a newspaper editor, I would have strongly cautioned him to not go after those who questioned him. If he wanted to address their overall concerns, fine. But to act childish and throw what amounts to a tantrum over it, silly.
Journalists get nasty e-mail all the time (I know because I get my fair share.). You have to just ignore it and not take it to heart.
This guy is very insecure.
It’s typical that the extremists of any group give the group itself grief. This is just another example.
Dude, you’ve got it right.
Tyk, YOU NEED TO GROW UP YOU MORON. YOU OBVIOUSLY DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING. CLEARLY NO ONE WOULD EVER HIRE YOU AS A NEWSPAPER EDITOR, SO IT’S POINTLESS TO DISCUSS WHAT YOU WOULD DO AS ONE.
There, do you like it?
I strongly caution you not to go after me for questioning you.
Well my my, somebody actually had the unbelievable gall to say MDN and it’s fanboys have gone a little too far?
It’s unfortunate, because the least some of the posters here could have done would have been to bring the problem to light before things like this started happening… what? We did?
Oh.
I see nothing illogical or wrong with any of MDN’s statements above. I see plenty wrong with Kantor’s. When he stoops to calling MDN “small” it is uncalled for (plus, with over 1,000,000 page views per month, MDN could hardly be called a small site), childish and shows what a small man Kantor really is – he couldn’t hide it. MDN saw it and pointed it out with the original critique and now this one.
Bravo, MDN – not bad for a “small” site!
tyk
Great point about journalistic professionalism…
Was writing a similar take in the MacRumour forum and it shut down on me before I could post it.
I’m sure any journalist who writes a biased article against the mac community is inundated with a similar deluge of email/mail (good and bad) but would never write another piece to whine about it.
2�
Doesn’t Dell only sell Dells?
I am a long-time Mac user and I read the original article and did not find any anti-Mac bias; at least none that should result in emails with profanity. I don’t know why some Mac users want all journalists to always praise the Mac.
Just give it a rest people-in fact all Mac aficionados should practice a one year moratorium on trying to convince everyone, especially Wintel using folk, that Macs are superior. The iPod is already doing that. I think we do Apple more harm than good by this constant evangelizing.
An alternative outlet for the fans is to read CARS daily <http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/>
Peace
MDN: You should buy these books:
THIS and THIS
Hywel
You should buy this
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060540745/qid=1098119177/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-4529342-1408665
I completely agree that curse filled e-mails won’t convince anyone of anything except the lunacy of the writer. As for the rest. . . it seems like he is trying to backpedal a bit and be more reasonable.
(BTW, aren’t there now over 25,000 titles out for OS X? Wasn’t that in Steve’s WWDC Keynote?? I know it hasn’t changed on Apple’s Panther page, but I think I remember hearing Steve say that.)
Getting mad at this moron will not solve anything. (might be fun though) Send him links on the real deal, let him see his mistakes.
The reason Kantor got so mad and won’t let it go? MDN outed him in their original piece. Kantor didn’t like being caught red-handed so publicly. Kantor should leave it alone now – he’s lost.
It’s funny that people here miss the essential part of the article. The MDN community are a bunch of retarded, paranoid, little kiddies. Other communities like the ones at Macrumors and Ars.Technica are mature.
*Proud not to be part of MDN*
heh,
obviously, as you just posted you ARE a part of the MDN community (proud or otherwise).
An underlying motivation of Andrew Kantor’s “piece” was to split the mac community into two groups: the low brow MDNers, and the high brow MacRumour types. And you fell for it hook line and sinker. How does that feel to be manipulated so effectively? Read both of Andrew Kantor’s articles again, and figure out where your motivations should truly fall…
heh
I’m glad, your not a part of MDN
Well I read Andrews article on Virginia Tech Big Mac, and I really think MDN is out of line. You guys try so hard with your MDN take thing, that you totally loose perspective. Andrew is right.
MDN owes Andrew an apology. No doubt. You are an embarassment to the Mac community, and it’s for this reason that I rarely read or post here anymore.
You may not think of yourself as a “small website”, but your small minded, closed, paranoid atti
librium: That was pretty funny. Thanks. It’s what we call each other at work for working where we do, doing what we do. I can forward that to some of my colleagues.
MDN is not a community. I think we come here for the links to news and to troll. Sometimes there’s some meaningful discussion, but not that often. It degenerates into name calling pretty quickly.
That’s part of the appeal, of course. Despite MDNs pretentions of Mac user being more intelligent and wealthy, this place is remarkably like watching the Jerry Springer show. (or maybe even like participating in it sometimes).
This is Mac Daily Flames after all – not exactly the first point of call for objective reporting and debate.
We all come here to let of steam, dont take us too seriously USA Today.
Have to agree with knowsbetter and the others all proclaiming MDN is out of line in this case.
To everyone else – come on – we’re Apple fanatics, not terrorists.
I suspect many of the writers of these letters are under 25 (and possibly many at MDN are too), since I seriously doubt a mature adult would feel it necessary to write to an author of a fairlyl innocent article and swear their keyboards off to him. Very rude.
Learn some manners people. And grow up as well.
Maybe if we weren’t seen as such a bunch of cry-babies we’d be taken more seriously.
Also, have you ever stopped to think that maybe some of the things which you write/do are actually going against Apple’s beliefs? Or don’t you care? Do you really think they’d condone the writing of nasty letters to article authors (perhaps with the exception of Mr. Thurrot :^)? It’s not going to help their cause put it that way.
And whoever said it’s a computer, not a religion was spot-on.
[I actually wonder if MDN has taken the point of view of this being a war, and is war-mongering amongst all you sheep to boost their publicity?]
[yes, I said sheep. Baaa.]
Hywel
Same here LOL
Hywel: “MDN is not a community. I think we come here for the links to news and to troll. Sometimes there’s some meaningful discussion, but not that often. It degenerates into name calling pretty quickly.
That’s part of the appeal, of course. Despite MDNs pretentions of Mac user being more intelligent and wealthy, this place is remarkably like watching the Jerry Springer show. (or maybe even like participating in it sometimes).”
well said
I agree his article was slanted.
�But before you Mac people start giving each other high-fives�
VT went into the project without a predisposition to a specific HW or OS platform.
Mac folks CAN be proud because VT chose the best platform from a performance per $$$ perspective which is better then say- �We chose the Mac because we like Macs� And that says a lot about the Mac.
Kantor was also incorrect in saying the 970 Processor �isn’t available to the Little People� because it is. Anyone can go out and buy the same Xserve models used at VT.
That said-
Receiving load of profanity laced emails is not going to convince anyone that one OS is superior to another OS.
So perhaps we should all chill out a bit…
…and save our flame-o-grams for Kerry supporting liberal mother f_ckers.
(ha ha just kidding on the last line)
Seriously though, Lets welcome our PC brethren with open arms, love and positive feedback about the benefits of OSX.
oh jeese, that sounded like it came from a tree hugging, no bath taking hippie, Burkenstock wearing, Liberal.
(ha ha ho ho again on the prev line, please can�t we all just get along, no I don�t know how to spell Burkenstock, cause buy cheapo sandals, too lazy to look it up for a quick post)
But really, enough with sending spiteful emails to people.
well said b. Hilarious!
MDN is doing fine. It caters to its audience very well, as can be evidenced by this column.
Anyone who comes to an unmoderated news site to find balanced opinions will be searching for a long time.
Personally, I don’t take MDN seriously… I just use it to find a consolidated area for mac news… a portal to other news sites.
and it is fun to troll and watch others troll.
i think maybe mdn did go a little far.
they probly dont mind the free attention tho :p
:Kantor was also incorrect in saying the 970 Processor �isn’t available to the Little People� because it is. Anyone can go out and buy the same Xserve models used at VT.”
Bzzzt! Wrong! The VT XServes are 2.3GHz not 2.0GHz.
Over the years, the type of rabidly offensive mac zealots who write the profane garbage that Andrew received, have been the biggest problem with the Mac. If you really want people to pay attention, try treating them with courtesy, otherwise they will just hang up.
As for whether Andrew was right or wrong, who cares? Free speech is something we should all be entitled to without having to endure rude harassing messages. If you’ve got a point to make or an opinion to share, try to remember the manners you should have been taught in kindergarten.
Macs are great! It’s just too bad about some of the users…
Birkenstock.
Okay, for all the Repubs that went to a nice Ivy League school.. none of you seem to have a handle on the English language.
Then again, Birkenstock isn’t a word.
I think it’s ‘fuzzy English’
Sweet.
I think there a lot of people on this board that are out of touch. There are still many publishing operations out there running OS 9, because they don’t just own one Mac that they run a Panther installer disk on. They can have hundreds of Macs and they have to adjust their entire workflows, including any specific high-end publishing plug-ins or utilities that haven’t been upgraded, or they are still using Quark 4 because the later versions suck. And the bigger the operation, the more complicated it is to coordinate the upgrade.
Furthermore, I agree with those who are posting that MDN and Mac users are out of line. I have been a hardcore Mac user since 1985, but I have to say that the most strident Mac users can be like the most strident Christians, Muslims, etc. which is to say that they can be excruciating to be around. You Mac attack dogs aren’t helping switchers, you’re scaring them away.
The only contentious thing in the original article was:
These aren’t your run-of-the-mill Macs; each sports a 2.3 GHz IBM PowerPC 970 processor, which isn’t available to the Little People. But before you Mac people start giving each other high-fives, you should know that the university didn’t say, “Hey, let’s make a supercomputer out of Macs.” They were interested in that PowerPC processor, which IBM happened to sell to Apple for those Macs. (All right, one high-five is allowed.)
These machines weren’t generally available at the time. The article is correct.
The problem, is the implication that those 970 chips were nothing to do with Apple and indeed that the design of the boxes themselves and the supporting chipset were irrelevant.
This is something that is worth pointing out. It’s something that is midly annoying. It’s something that is worth correcting or rewording slightly. But there are ways and means to do this, and spitting bucketloads of vitriol at the guy is not going to achieve it.
As has been pointed out somewhere above, the kudos is that they didn’t give a monkey’s chuff about the platform as long as it did the job and met the budget. And Apple could do that where competitors could not. It was fastest and cheapest. And not only with this rackmount solution, but it was also fastest and cheapest with the previous bulky desktop G5 solution.
True. So I can’t get the exact Xserve model, big deal. The PPC 970 is available for the ‘little people’. You could buy the 2.0 GHz Xserve or the 2.5 PowerMac. Plus IBM is selling it in one of their servers (the H-series, I think)
Mr Kantor:
I enjoy reading Mac Daily News on a daily basis. It never ceases to amaze me how many Tech writers like yourself spend so much news print “writing-off” Apple and the Mac platform. I long ago gave up trying to constrain people to use Macs. You are correct: it is your right to live in mediocrity if you so choose. But I also get tired of hearing people whine about their viruses and spyware problems since those issues are not on my radar scope thanks to a large guardian cat called “Panther.” you give out a lot of advice and you probably do it out of a desire to help people. So here is some advice for you. If you like to listen to music get an iPod. I don’ really care to listen to music but my ipod has revolutionized my musical life. Since your primary job is word-processing you can do that on anything from a 15 year-old Tandy to a 3″ thick Dell laptop but the coolest way is on an iBook or Powerbook. And if somehow you just cannot pull yourself aware from the rest of the agni redmondi then leave us free spirits alone to enjoy ourselves!
Jon Bell
Woodruff, SC
The wording isn’t great. “The 2.3GHz version is a special order for VT. Other customers are limited to a 2GHz version from Apple”, might have been better. But really, this is being blown up out of all proportion.
I’ve written stuff here in the past and been flamed for being a sickass gay PC loser or whatever, even when what I’ve written is almost impossible to be anything other than pro-Mac. So what hope does a non-mac tech write have to please all of the people here ? Zero. It’s not even his job to keep the people here at MDN happy.
I wasn’t sure about that 970 process thing thanks for pointing it out (demmit). I’ll be more careful next time.
I also agree with Bob-
I get the feeling that the folks that frequent MDN are a bit narrow-sighted.
So, the opinions expressed in MDN or by the MDN posters may not be representative of the Mac community as a whole and certainly isn’t representative of the computing community (if it was the market share numbers would be switched).
Birkenstock, okay.
Anyway-
Inform don’t inflame.
The big story is…
“All right, I hate OS9, which I’m stuck on at work”
Wow it is the near the end of 2004 and USA Today�
is still using OS 9.2.1.
I could under stand that choice a few years ago but if they can’t make OS X work with their printing systems they should have moved to XP a long time ago.
OS 9 adds no value to their business.
�
My hometown is Roanoke and, while it is a great area in which to live, I am not at all surprised that the author still uses MacOS 9. Maybe I ought to start a collection to buy an iMac G5 for the Roanoke Times…
Well, at least this article wasn’t insidious. Blatant is more like it. He was backpedaling pretty hard trying to justify himself too. Especially his comment:
“I said the computers used at Virginia Tech were not available to the general public � the “Little People” as I called us. At the time it was built, they weren’t. Today they are.”
Is time shifting to justify fallacies a legitimate argument? If I say something like “France owns New Orleans” and someone calls me on it, can I then justify it by saying “I said France owns New Orleans – at the time the city was built this was true Now it is not.”
Seems like he is really grasping to avoid admitting he made a mistake.
P.S. Please stop flaming the analysts. It just makes them even more certain that they are right. Besides, it takes away from the legitimate arguments in favor of the Mac and makes us all seem infantile. Politely correct misinformation, if necessary, and offer logical and helpful advice and commentary, if you must.
I understand that being kicked around and ridiculed for years can make a person defensive. But that is counterproductive for encouraging the current expansion of the Mac to new users. I shrug off irritation at being called a “Mac fanatic” or part of the “Mac cult,” but the too-vocal Mac minority is painting the unfavorable picture that the rest of the world sees.
Umm, it’s just a computer.
Get a life. Take that passion and love for a little box of chips and transfer it to the people in your life. Maybe then you guys at MDN wouldn’t be so angry and paranoid. Oh, and another thing. When this guy says “it’s too bad you can only buy it from Apple” maybe he’s commenting on the fact that, if there were some competition, the damned thing wouldn’t be so incredibly overpriced — a particular byproduct of competition you seem to be missing. COMPETITION is GOOD for the CONSUMER. It breeds innovation and determines true market value (whatever the hell that means).
Please, just go hug your children and put your keyboard down. The war is over.
“…..There are still many publishing operations out there running OS 9, because they don’t just own one Mac that they run a Panther installer disk on…”
Bob.. while this statement might be true,… it’s also true that just about any Macintosh which can run OS 9.x … can be made to run OSX ..
All you need is something from . Here … and maybe.. This Little Ditty from Ryan Rumpel…
While the costs of upgrades might be cheaper than new computers… one must also factor in the additional costs of OSX software…
And on the comparison of OS9.x to WinCrap XP (whichever version) … I’d much rather use OS 9.x than ANY flavor of WinDoze !!
MDN Trolling again?
Oh what the hell, it’s action! It’s drama!
But then again the USA Today writer asked for it with a article ‘it’s all IBM’ and nothing of Apple.
Well Apple produced the PPC chip with IBM and Motorolla you clueless idiot.
Read the original Kantor article about the VT Supercomputer. Ask yourself why he goes out of his way to minimize Apple, Mac, and Mac OS X. He was forced to mention Apple, Mac, and Mac OS X, because without them there is no VT supercomputer, but he sure didn’t seem to want to give them any credit. IBM gets the credit. Unix gets the credit. Read MDN’s piece about Kantor’s article and tell me what they got wrong, if anything:
http://www.macdailynews.com/comments.php?id=P3377_0_1_0_C
I have to agree with MDN on this whole Kantor thing. He has a bias and it shows through and he’s just upset that MDN pointed it out and his editors at USA Today noticed.
MDN wrote, “Why is it too bad only Apple sells Macs? Isn’t that a major reason why Macs tend to work seamlessly while Wintel’s hodgepodge of manufacturers creates a morass of issues, tech calls, and headaches for the unfortunate users of that platform? Apple has chosen to control the whole widget in order to present a better product. Throwing too many cooks into the Mac kitchen would diminish Apple’s slick, powerful, and beautiful computers. It’s good that only Apple makes Macs. The Wintel way is right if market share and turning the personal computer into a commodity are your goals, not if the satisfaction of your end user is your goal. Mac users are generally happy with their Macs, most Windows users cannot fathom being happy with a personal computer, for obvious reasons.”
AMEN!
‘Kantor describes MacDailyNews as, “a small Web site called Mac Daily News [sic],”‘
ROFL. How far up your own ass can you get?
I read Kantor’s original article and it’s clear that he doesn’t want to give Apple any credit for the VT supercomputer’s success. I mean it’s obvious. MDN just wrote about it. It’s about time this bullshit (subtle and not-so-subtle) was exposed. Just like Dan Rather. Bloggers will enforce the truth and expose hidden agendas for all to see!
The real question is: How much “Wintel” advertising revenue does USA Today depend upon?
Now look through the USA Today and note the ads. It looks like good business for USA Today to keep people off Apple Macs and on the Wintel teat to me.
People, get real.
The article was about the supercomputer. It was a good article, albeit light on the overall facts.
So what if he didn’t mention enough that it was a Mac thing, and that Macs are awesome. We use them, we know that.
If you want to get Macs exposure, this sure isn’t the way to do it. I mean really, grow up some of you. Reminds me of the same bullshit back in the day over which is better; the TRS-80 or the Apple ][. Again, who cares? Use whatever you want and let others use what they want. Make a suggestion if you’d like, point out the differences if you must – and let them be.
oh boo hoo, usa today is a newspaper for illiterates. and that has nothing to do with apple
I find it funny how Mac users know just how much software there are out there. I don’t think thats something we should advertise, it just makes us look stupid. I have two Powerbook G4s, one PowerMac 8600 and 6400. I rather have more quality software than quantity. PC users that use the “not enough software” bit when they talk about Macs are beyond idiots. Give me one good program that does it right vice 5 competing crappy ones. Who cares if we have over 18,000 software titles out there. We have better quality software for the Mac. Even Office is better on OS X than on Windows.
I just read the article and it is biased. This guy is lightweight if he’s going to get upset over a few over the top people. They’re in every crowd, Windows included.
i honestly would love to see some other manuf. makes boxes that run osX.
can you say “IBM-Compatible?”
How about “Apple-Compatible?”
The original Kantor article is painfully biased. It seems like it hurts Kantor to compliment Apple or the Mac. He can’t bring himself to do it and tries to credit anybody but Apple for the VT supercomputer. MDN was/is right.
“…..How about “Apple-Compatible?”….”
ottomabulb…
Its been done before…
Check ebay, and you might find some Power Computing … Motorola .. and even the “awesome” DayStar Genesis 4-processor machines running Mac OS…
That was a failed “Gil Amelio” experiement and when they got rid of him and brought His Steveness back.. the brakes were put on that program…
Since then AAPL has flourished, and the rest … as they say … is hysterical !
These MDN tantrums are INCREDIBLY embarassing for our mac community that I love so dearly. The community loses credibility with each childish act.
Let me tell you a tail of a business such as mine. I fix x86-based computers for a living. I know the problems they have inside and out but let me lay out the OSX problems I have for you. Lets start with the fact that not all software is equal. Quickbooks for example is very different from its Windows counterpart. I called in a Quickbooks expert/Accountant to help set up my accounting system. Little did I know that the Apple version is not even explained to its certified trainers. QB is also incapable of some of the basic functions in QB Basic for Windows. I looked at MYOB and Peachtree but MYOB is light years behind QB and there is no Peachtree for Mac. I ended up buying a Dull and Peachtree and selling my QB on eBay. MY MAC CAN NOT EVEN HANDLE BASIC BUSINESS FUCTION LIKE BOOKKEEPING! So please stop telling people that macs have all the software a Windows user would.
“……Little did I know that the Apple version is not even explained to its certified trainers….”
hmmm ….could it be that their “certified trainers” have never even seen a Mac before ??
I wouldnt conclude that the app in question is faulty just because you or the “certified trainers” arent familiar with it…
It might have been easier (as well as much cheaper) for you to spend some time, yourself, learning the app..
You might have discovered … as in many other applications made for both platforms … that the Mac version is more intuitive, and .. in the long run… easier and more productive to use than its WinDoze counterpart…
“…I can like what I want, hate what I want, and use what I want. I like orange. You like blue. Tell me how wrong I am all you want; I still prefer orange.”
Ummm… that doesn’t sound like journalism there Mr. Kantor, that sounds like an agenda.
MDN is right. Kantor is a condescending moron. Being a moron is excusable, condescension is not. I’ve written hundreds of polite missives to condescending morons and jerks and it is a waste of words – politeness only invites more condescension and raises your blood pressure. Here’s a flash – words, polite or otherwise, never change anyone’s mind or illuminate the error of their ways. However, condescending, arrogant, twits like Kantor need their eyebrows singed occassionally to let them know there’s an audience that knows he’s not as smart as he thinks he is. Don’t ignore them – turn on the flames.
There is no excuse for badly researched, unbalanced material.
When you write, you’re filling a gap in the literary spectrum. You should always be aware of this and aim to produce work of the highest integrity.
That’s true, MDN is the most stinking fanboy site for Macfags.
Macfags
You very smart.
… and this comes as a surprise to anyone here. Many Mac users here are sheep, quick to jump behind anything MDN says in favor of Apple and quicker when they speak against MS and XP.
MDN isn’t a news site in that they research, write, and publish information. They link. They link. They link.
It’s an editorial site with writers that are unafraid to speak wonders of one platform and bash all alternatives.
I find the site useful in that it links to real news sites, but the opinions rendered by MDN are almost surely twisted in some manner.
Good link site; skip the editorials.
… and this comes as a surprise to anyone here. Many Mac users here are sheep, quick to jump behind anything MDN says in favor of Apple and quicker when they speak against MS and XP.
MDN isn’t a news site in that they research, write, and publish information. They link. They link. They link.
It’s an editorial site with writers that are unafraid to speak wonders of one platform and bash all alternatives.
I find the site useful in that it links to real news sites, but the opinions rendered by MDN are almost surely twisted in some manner.
Good link site; skip the editorials.
“I wouldnt conclude that the app in question is faulty just because you or the “certified trainers” arent familiar with it…”
And it’s not Microsoft’s fault that their so-called Exchange connectivity solution, Entourage, lacks some important functions found in the Windows version of Outlook.
It’s not Microsoft’s fault that some content on their web site is only accessible with Windows Internet Explorer, and does not display correctly on standards compliant browsers such as Safari and Mozilla.
Microsoft is not the only company that can produce crippled Mac versions of their software. For example, some PC games that have been ported to the Mac are unable to play against PC’s running on the same network. But that’s not the developer’s fault, is it?
And now M&PC; Guy is the official “party pooper” tonight.
Yes, I agree that MDN is a good site for consolidated links to “real” news, but it’s also a lot of fun to see the direction that the editorials take, and having read all the way down this thread of feedback, it seems to be pretty balanced, really, between the trolls, the gut-reactions, the cry-babies and juvenile blasts, the thoughtout responses, and then, if given long enough, the inevitable discussion about the site itself, on which I’m choosing to chime in. Sometimes these feedback loops stay on-topic, other times we end up somewhere north of Pluto. That’s what I think makes this site fun.
you mean a writer described the jerks who hang out at MDN as, (gasp!) jerks? who would have guessed?
uh oh!
you very smart too
Bottom line.
When are you foul-mouthed dorks going to get a clue?
You don’t convince anyone of anything by cussing them out and calling them losers!
You only prove you are bozos.
Steve Jobs
you very, very smart too
MDN admit it when the USA Today talked about your website you felt that your site had finally made mainstream.
I like it that MDN is upsetting some tech writers and making then feel that they are not quilified to do their job. Great Job MDN
I’m a long time mac user, but this site sucks. I’m sick of it. It doesn’t inform, it polarizes. I’m tired of all these immature opinions and insults. All you flamers are a disgrace for the mac community, because you cast a bad light on the mac plattform with your attitude. I’m wasting my time here. Insult me if you wish, I wouldn’t care less. In fact I’ll never know, since I won’t return. Grow up MDM!
Every day I come here, this site goes downhill.
I love my Mac, I like to hear about new stuff that has to do with Macs and every now and then MDN gets the scoop.
I think your editorial team needs to grow up and stop attacking every person who hasn’t ‘seen the light’. My God you’re supposed to be journalists aren’t you? Or is this just some hack site set up by over-revved fanboys? You’re giving the Apple crowd a bad name…
I find the comments on this site to be the worst of all, sounds like the comments section has been over run by abusive 12 year olds who would pee their pants if they had to say the same things to someone’s face.
1st post! = moron
Craigybaby,
I agree.
Buried Caesar wrote: And now M&PC; Guy is the official “party pooper” tonight.
My apologies. It’s just tiresome to read countless the following all the time:
Praise Apple.
Bash Microsoft.
Repeat!
I’m a Mac fan myself, and it’s still annoying.
Buried Caesar wrote: And now M&PC; Guy is the official “party pooper” tonight.
My apologies. It’s just tiresome to read countless the following all the time:
Praise Apple.
Bash Microsoft.
Repeat!
I’m a Mac fan myself, and it’s still annoying.
can I have my puddding now?
MDN has finally lost the plot ..
MDN lost a trmendous amount of credibility.
You wrote a very slanted article designed to provoke your readers into writing clearly emotional, ill-informed responses to the author.
MDN != Macintosh Daily News
MDR = Macintosh Daily Rant
Although you’re probably not capable of it, you should retract the original rant and count your blessings that you weren’t sued for liable.
Futhermore, your criticism of his company’s use of OS 9 is narrow and completely wrong. Most businesses are driven by business decisions. More than likely, there is a technical reason why the mirgation hasn’t happened and an associated cost related to it. There’s also a concept of mitigating risk involved with it.
You openly criticise the non-migration without knowing anything about the infrastructure. ANYONE who is knowledgeable about computers and computing infrastructure knows that this is a common mistake mae by ignorant people (or management).
MDN has no credibility as a technical publication. You may be knowledgeable about the computer you are currently working on, but you know nothing about corporate systems integration.
You need to try this: Shut up and listen!
“It breeds innovation and determines true market value (whatever the hell that means).”
Oh yea .. look at how Dell/Gateway/HP are innovating.. People make me laugh .. really..
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