“The music industry is pushing bitter technology rivals — most notably Microsoft and Apple — to shake hands in the interest of promoting digital downloads, Billboard has learned. Hardware makers and digital format developers, including many traditional adversaries, are engaged in private talks aimed at meeting the music industry’s goal of compatibility among competing digital music devices by 2005,” Brian Garrity reports for Billboard.
“‘There’s a substantial discussion going on among these companies about interoperability,’ says Paul Vidich, executive VP of strategic planning and business development for Warner Music Group. Consumers are embracing commercial digital music in increasing numbers, and the trend is likely to be aided by a Pepsi-Apple promotion launching Feb. 1 during Super Bowl XXXVIII. But incompatibility among certain digital music services and portable players remains an obstacle,” Garrity reports.
“‘Consumers are going to demand that there be interoperability in devices and software players,” Vidich says. Executives with knowledge of the talks say much of the focus is on transcoding — the process of converting a file from one format to another,” Garrity reports. “It is impossible right now for consumers to directly convert a file protected by one type of digital rights management (DRM) into another type of secure file.”
Garrity reports, “While this is not specifically an Apple and Microsoft matter, many of the practical issues center on compatibility between the two tech giants. Music from Apple Computer’s iTunes Music Store — the leading seller of digital tracks — cannot be transferred directly to any portable device other than the iPod. Those who compete with iPod by and large support Microsoft’s Windows Media Audio (WMA) format. At the same time, tracks from every other legitimate service — a field that includes Napster, MusicMatch, RealNetworks, Wal-Mart and Sony — are incompatible with the iPod. To load iTunes tracks on a device other than iPod or to load songs from a rival onto Apple’s device, consumers must burn the tracks to a CD and then rip the tracks from the CD back to the computer in the MP3 format.”
“Executives at some device makers — such as Richard Bullwinkle, a senior product manager at Rio Audio — have complained that Apple has been resistant to overtures about making secure iTunes files compatible with other devices,” Garrity reports. “With Apple controlling much of the nascent legitimate digital music market, the onus for concessions in the compatibility debate largely falls on the company — a prospect one rival executive likens to ‘unilateral disarmament.’ “‘Increased operability is great for consumers. But if you’re in Apple’s situation, it’s not in your interest to do this,’ says a source.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Apple has the number one legit online music download service with their iTunes Music Store. Apple also has the number one player, the iPod. Shouldn’t the rest of the industry embrace the Apple standard, just like every other standard that has come to the fore in other areas; or is Apple a special case to these people? Don’t change a thing Apple – you’re winning the war.
It’s important that all manufacturers agree on how the DRM that is encoded into AAC is interoperable, but WMA does not need to be included. I feel consumers will continue to reject WMA, but unless Apple are planning to release an entire range of audio products for all tastes and budgets, they cannot seal WMA’s coffin with only the iPod. A partnership with Philips, JVC, Panasonic, B&O etc that allows Fairplay encoded files to be played on their digital audio devices (believe me, they will be working on them) is essential at this time. Apple get this bit right and Microsoft’s opinion will matter a lot less.
“Shouldn’t the rest of the industry embrace the Apple standard,”
I think they would like to but Apple wont let them. Hence the reference to “Apple has been resistant to overtures about making secure iTunes files compatible with other devices”.
Apple is starting to look like a monopoly and should be made to open up its DRM.
When nobody else had a workable answer, Apple stuck their neck WAY OUT and set up the iTMS. The GREEDY RIAA companies, instead of rewarding Apple with a period of exclusivity, let everybody but Roto-Rooter into the fray. Apple needs to walk a careful line on this. All the RIAA member companies see is MONEY and don’t give a damn about Apple.
The sheer weight of the Windows/WMA format could crush them if it is not handled well. The obvious choice would be to add HELIX DRM to the iPOD, so that AAC files from RealNetworks can be supported. This adds to the support base for AAC (MPEG-4 Audio) and helps a natural non-WMA ally. Asking RealNetworks to drop WMA support in order to get Helix DRM on the iPod would be a fair option.
But I’m sure the record companies don’t care about who has what DRM. They’re there to push thier product which is music under thier lockdown. A move like this would work because they want everyone who has an MP3 player to be able to buy (read: rent) thier songs from anywhere. The only favorite they’re playing is thier own, they want to sell music, and I’m sure they don’t really care how it’s packaged. They’re in the music business, not the technology business
This is great Apple is giving Microsoft a taste of their Monopoly Medicine. Great Job Apple and Bill how does it feel to be on the outside looking in.
I have to go with Steve Jobs on this one. The whole reason that the iTMS exists is to sell iPods. If you want your device to play AAC with Apple’s DRM then you either need to OEM the iPod from Apple or license the Apple DRM system for non-portable music players. If you allow people to play the iTMS files on other players, it kills the iPod sales.
I agree with ‘john’. The article says Apple won’t play. I can see Apple’s position on this – licencing up AAC/Fairplay will not sell iPods, and won’t make as much money as iPods.
I also agree with ‘NoPCZone’. Making Helix work on iPods would seem to be a win-win to me. After all, Apple says the money pickings are slim for music downloads. Let Real do the work, and sell the iPods to play the music.
Mike
“Apple is starting to look like a monopoly and should be made to open up its DRM.”
Do we really want to have this conversation John? How much money is Apple making off this “Monopoly”? Compare it to the shit Microsoft is doing and this is NOTHING! Apple is locking in their strategy which is sell iPods. It’s they’re technology so they have every right to go out and license it as they see fit. Their competitors made the mistake of going with WMA and now they’re starting to see that it’s a big problem for them. Apple had the momentum and they should have gotten on the train. If I was Apple I would wait until 1 or 2 of the services die off then license out AAC w/ Fairplay. Microsoft will be opening up their own store soon so do you REALLY think they are going to offer anything other than WMA? And, what make you think that Microsoft won’t try to lock in their own player? We already know that the Portable Media Player will only play WMA audio files and WMV(?) video along with MP3 and MPEG4.
Mat: I think it is relevant to have this conversation yes. That is why I mentioned it. As to Apple not making money of the iTMS I think that is not entirely true. Have a look at: iTunes margins ‘exponential’ � Apple exec http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=7815 “According to Apple’s director of product marketing Chris Bell, “the Music Store has a positive margin that will grow exponentially”. If AAC/Fairplay controls most of the market and will not license it then they are a Monopoly. I don’t like Monopolies – Period. They are bad for the consumer. I say make the DRM/Format universal and let people compete on a level playing field. Just because MS has abused its position in the past doesn’t mean Apple should now do the same.
Mat: I think it is relevant to have this conversation yes. That is why I mentioned it. As to Apple not making money of the iTMS I think that is not entirely true. Have a look at: iTunes margins ‘exponential’ � Apple exec http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=7815 “According to Apple’s director of product marketing Chris Bell, “the Music Store has a positive margin that will grow exponentially”. If AAC/Fairplay controls most of the market and will not license it t
MDN’s take is a bit off base. Assuming everyone should except a format as standard due to it’s prevalence is what Microsoft is all about. I’d rather Apple plod along like they are and prove their format is better, not win by default ala MS.
Hey.. I agree with Dave H. For this to REALLY work, Apple should license the AAC/Fariplay to other vendors to produce hardware. I think of Apple folks as “early adaptors”.. and so it with ITMS, iPod and pay downloads as well. How long before more and more folks decide that WMA has cheaper players, and is ‘good enough’ for the masses?
Does anyone think that giving a 8 year old a $250 iPod to listen to Barny Songs makes sense? I think that Apple will contiune to garner market share with the iPod as the high end player for music, but unless they can manage to produce SOMETHING that plays AAC/Fairplay for people without $250, then guess who’s going to take over that share of the market?
As a mature adult, who owns several Apple Products, including a G5, frankly $250 seems really high for a music player. Not that its not worth that amount, just that its more than i want to pay for a device like that.
I suspopse its possible for Apple to stick to their current plan, untill they see their market share begin to erode, but by then it’ll be too little too late I’m afriad.
I suspect that there is a lot more going on in these talks than this article says. Are they trying to get Apple to license FairPlay, or trying to get Apple to switch everything to WMA, or looking for some conversion process?
Considering that a unified DRM would put control into one company’s hands, they probably will settle on a conversion process.
I would expect the “music industry” (as represented by Warner, I guess), would like Apple’s solution better, because the DRM is separate from the music format (conceptually, at least). FairPlay could be applied to WMA files, MP3, Ogg, or whatever. But the slant of the article is trying to make Apple more reasonable, not make Microsoft more reasonable.
It looks like Microsoft has maneuvered well, once again. By giving WMA away to music sellers for practically free, and by handling the tech stuff for them, they have amassed a lot of support for WMA. That is where the “pressure” is coming from. Apple’s market share against Microsoft’s irregulars.
Apple will probably do nothing about this for the better part of this year. Then, I hope they put FairPlay up for licensing.
Reading this site is swallowing a brain tumor sometimes.
We have the extreme nitwits who state that the other compainies should use AAC/Fairplay when one of the points of the article is that they can’t–Apple won’t licence it to them.
We have others suggesting that Apple hold out and try to win the format war. Read between the lines, for f-ck’s sake–they’ve pretty much won the format war.
The other sites and harware companies don’t want to fight AAC/Fairplay. They want to license it.
Ball’s in Apple’s court–do they want to use iTunes to force everyone else out of the player and online sales market, or do they want to licence Fairplay and make a vig on every track sold and every player sold.
If any other company was involved I would be sure that they were going to keep kicking the other guys in the nuts for another six months and then license. But with Apple you never know–they do seem to have an incredible knack for rescuing defeat from the jaws of victory.
P.S.: I think licensing FairPlay will not affect iPod sales too much, because iTunes would continue to work best with iPods only. The licensing would let other music seller’s use AAC/Fairplay with their own jukes, but the best juke would work seamlessly only with the best player. The only result would be a the ability to collect music from different sources.
Jerk said…But with Apple you never know–they do seem to have an incredible knack for rescuing defeat from the jaws of victory.
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That has been true in the past at times. But, I think Jobs is a very different person now, with a whole different perspective. I would bet he has learned a whole lot about marketing, merchandising, phased roll-outs, and multi-channel distribution just through Pixar. The movie industry does a much more effective job in maximizing profits then the music industry. The music industry basically throws out a CD and that’s it.
I would be amazed if Jobs and his gang don’t have a detailed plan on each phase of the iTunes/iPod juggernaut, including licensing FairPlay or adding WMA support when appropriate. You just don’t open your kimono wide on the first date. And this phase is the first date.
And I would bet the music industry trusts Apple far more then Microsoft. I don’t think the record companies will let Microsoft win this. They’re scared to death of losing control to Microsoft.
Oh hell! Just hire DVD Jon and have him create a “WMA deDRM” AAC converter and be done with it. Let’s move on. Dont have time for this crap. They obviously dont want to use Fairplay. Fairplay is a seperate company from what I understand (there are two of them…dont get them mixed up – Fair Play and Fairplay is trademarked by Veridisc) I dont think its the licensing issue (it may be – I doubt it). I think its more. I think its succombing to Apple’s wrath that they could dominate the music format world and they dont want to admit to it and be embarrased at the same time.
Apple created an elegant system that just works and those that use it love it. Where are the consumer protests? There are none.
If Apple had a small slice of the pie no one would be arguing.
There are only 2 concerns at this point: the availability of a $99-$199 player and the need for a larger “complete” library of music. Apple is working on the latter and if there is a great enough demand will produce a “cheaper” player.
Bottom line is: Apple did their homework and everyone else is crying: “… but the dog ate mine..”
I agree that Apple should hold out for a while and squeeze then license Fairplay out. The margins on software are incredible. People could then buy a crap music player for cheap if they want but every one sold would then further lock Apples hold on the market (ala M$ business model but in this case it would just help to even the field a bit and hopefully open things up for a bit of growth in Apples Computer market share)
iTMS = #1 in dollar sales and music volume iPod = #1 music player
Why should iTunes cater to the other music players? It might be different if the iPod were not the #1 player.
The wanna be companies should be licensing fairplay so they will be compatable with the #1 music player. If all the wanna be music stores were fairplay/ACC format, Apple would have all of the them pushing up the iPod sales, and still have the easiest and best online buying experience with the iTMS.
Just another thought, with 100,000,000 songs through the Pepsi promotion, and HP selling iPods, (oops, hPods) wouldn’t that make most online music services think that maybe they should be compatable with the #1 player, the iPod?
Out of all the online music services, isn’t Dell the only one offering a player as part of the package? For everyone else just selling songs and not making a big profit, they should be falling all over themselves trying to have their files work with the #1 player
From the article
“Executives at some device makers — such as Richard Bullwinkle, a senior product manager at Rio Audio — have complained that Apple has been resistant to overtures about making secure iTunes files compatible with other devices,”
Meaning Apple will not support WMA. Mr Bullwinkle didn’t say Apple has been resistant to making Rio players compatable with the iTMS. A small difference, but enough to make me wonder why people have commented that Apple is stupid for not licensing fairplay. Apple has never came out and issued a statement saying “We will not license Fairplay”
But again, Rio makes hardware, it doesn’t sell songs. I still think the online music vendors would be better off by selling ACC/Fairplay songs that would work with the iPod. They might not get many Mac users to go for their service, but they would probably pull in Windows users who love the iPod, but don’t want to buy music just cause the iTMS is Apple. In fact, for that kind of user/customer, being able to have a cool iPod, but buy songs from somewhere else will drive more iPod sales that wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
OK, I’m done, thanks for reading my ranting
” I still think the online music vendors would be better off by selling ACC/Fairplay songs that would work with the iPod.”
You obviously cant read. The other music vendors want to sell songs that work with the iPod but Apple wont let them.
Why does everybody think that Apple monopolizes with AAC+Fair Play? Has the battle been won? Is AAC+Fair Play the de facto standard for a foreseeable time? The answer to both is no. Apple is still battling MS with their WMA with newcomers coming in: Sony with their ATRAC and Real with their Helix. AAC+Fair Play maybe the de facto standard NOW, but the battle is still early. Has anyone forgotten a small company that ruled the market with 80% but was crushed by a giant called Microsoft? Yes, that company was the first to commercialize a web browser. “Monopoly” in a newborn market is not a monopoly.
Ceeding control to AAC+Fair Play or licensing WMA for iTunes and iPods is a big mistake that Apple should avoid right now. Why should Apple try to kill itself or give the victory to MS? When the market matures which is definitely not now, Apple should open up Fair Play. For all who complain, do you really want Apple to drop the ball when it starts to get interesting? For the music industry, is that how to thank and what you want to do to a company that bravely took the risks to open up a legal download market?
Monopoly? If you think along this line you are all bonkers.
A monopoly is the exclusive power, or privilege of selling a commodity;the exclusive power, right, or privilege of dealing in some article, or of trading in some market; sole command of the traffic in anything, however obtained;
How that does apply to Apple and iPod? Are you claiming no one can sell music online? Or that others should be able to get the blueprint from Apple for iPod and start using the same techonlogy?
It sonds as you are complaining Ferrari is only sold by a Ferrari dealer: “Oh my goodness, they are the only one selling the Ferrari: it as a Monopoly”
Apple iPod and iTMS has the majority of the market not because they ventured into monopolistic practices. It is because it is the best product and – this time, for listening to music in high quality it is all that matters.
It is not even like Apple is forcing iPod owners to only music from iTMS, it plays a pletora of formats. Apple is not licensing in order not to risk to see its builded reputation of quality by inferior spin-offs.
Imagine a AAC d/l service from Dell: “Hey Apple, your iPod is shit, the AAC music from iDellMS is full of pops and craks, is that your quality? I want my money back” – “Sir, tried the same music from iTMS?” – “I do not care you scum, Dell is selling AAC tunes and you claim the iPod is the best for AAC tracks. You are worst than Microsoft: I want a refund, I’ll newer buy Apple again”.
Sorry, it is a nightmare scenario. Let Apple and the iPod alone. Not happy? Buy something else.
Hi John,
Sorry, I did read the entire article. It never once said anywhere that Apple would not license fairplay.
The article quoted Richard Bullwinkle saying that Apple has been resistant to making secure iTMS files compatable with with other devices. That means Apple will not support WMA
Also from the article
“Music from Apple Computer’s iTunes Music Store — the leading seller of digital tracks — cannot be transferred directly to any portable device other than the iPod. Those who compete with iPod by and large support Microsoft’s Windows Media Audio (WMA) format. At the same time, tracks from every other legitimate service — a field that includes Napster, MusicMatch, RealNetworks, Wal-Mart and Sony — are incompatible with the iPod.”
Since most of the services listed here, Napster, MusicMatch, Real-Networks, and Wal-Mart don’t have players, they should be trying to get their songs in the ACC/Fairplay format to go one the iPod.
Please re-read the article, it never says Apple refuses to license fairplay. It quotes Bullwinkle who blames Apple for not using WMA to support his companies players.
In theory, nothing should be stopping online music services from licensing and using ACC Fairplay. ACC is easily available, and even used by nokia in their phones. Fairplay is owned by veridisc. I’m not aware of any Apple exclusive licensee on the use of fairplay, or any say in who else has the right to license it.
Similar things have been said for Apple computers and clones, “Apple should license OS X to intel”, or “Apple should start offering G4s at $600 and laptops at $900, then they will truly see market share rise”
Yeah, and Apple would be no different in quality than any other PC maker. This time with iPod and iTMS Apple has the quality AND the market share and everyone is screaminp: shame Apple, open up the market!
Totally stupid. Want to listen to iTMS tracks in high quality? get iTunes. Want to carry with you? get an iPod. Monopoly? Are you kidding? There are hundreds of other products around, go ahead.
Not the same quality with respect to Apple? Oh, and since when this is NEWS?
dark, the problem is not about playing AAC format without DRM, that can be done already. iPod is not bound to play only music from iTMS. Fact is competitors have to convince RIAA that their DRM is valid, which is another issue entirely.
AAC is not Apple property, the combo with Fairplay is (sole licensee).
Apple supporting WMA is shooting their own foot at the moment. When iPod will have made all others competitor rust in a drawer (by simply comparing quality) then maybe but then, who will still need that?
It’s too soon in the history of digital music to start calling anyone a monopoly.
The music-seller’s don’t want iTMS to adopt WMA, they want to license Fairplay from Apple so that their music sites can be iPod compatible. Making iPods WMA compatible would serve the same purpose, but would do nothing for DRM interoperability. They want Fairplay/AAC. Apple is holding off for good, sound, business reasons.
But Apple will capitulate soon. Licensing Fairplay will probably keep the power with Apple. Their competitors juke software will have to work with Apple’s DRM server to control restrictions, and that will give Apple the power to determine what the restrictions will be for everyone who uses Fairplay (Labels willing, of course).
The player-makers also want AAC/Fairplay license because they want to be compatible with the bulk of the music files out there, and that will soon be AAC/Fairplay. (They are already the bulk of *legal* music files.) Forcing Apple to add WMA capability to iPod would only weaken their already weak position.
The only company that wants Apple to adopt WMA, either on iPods or iTMS, is Microsoft. They would love to be the company deciding whether you can burn that playlist or not. They would probably institute a program whereby you could pay them for a license “upgrade” to get more burns or whatever.
In any case, everyone but M$ wants Apple’s Fairplay/AAC combo–either to get at the huge iPod market or the huge iTMS market.
Seahawk: Last I heard, we weren’t sure whether Apple was sole licensee of Fairplay, or bought it outright, or developed their own with the same name. (They might have worked a deal for the name). All we know is that Veridisc (??) Fairplay site looks dead and their parent company doesn’t mention them.
One thing to keep in mind is, interoperability is coming. Apple cannot stop it. If Apple does not act on it, MS will eventually work out a deal with Record company, so they can write a code to transfer AAC/Fairplay DRM to WMA. MS won’t able to disable the right on AAC/Fairplay, but they will able to get agreement with record company, so users can transfer the music to WMA with its DRM in place.
Apple should consider how to interoperate with other music format on their term, not on someone else. I don’t think making iTune compatible with WMA is the answer. This will only help WMA music stores. The answer is probably making WMA compatible with AAC/Fairplay. Then Apple will have control over what WMA player can do, not MS, like allowing WMA to play AAC/Fairplay and buy music from iTMS, but only allow download to iPod, hPod or any other third party company who wants to sell iPod.
Kenny, I meant sole licensee as a matter of fact, not as owners of the license. It is pretty murky. They might have total rights for a specific amount of time but I guess that would be known by now.
As you say, it seems no one could get first hand info from Veridisc.
s: ” If Apple does not act on it, MS will eventually work out a deal with Record company, so they can write a code to transfer AAC/Fairplay DRM to WMA.”
I seriously doubt this will be ever possible without signed accord from Apple. Moreover, if by that you imply Micros**t is willing to face a lawsuit from Apple, think again, it is not the right moment to act – again – as a monopoly.
MS can license AAC from http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/legal/index.html
I thought MS can license Fairplay from Veridisc, but I guess they sold Fairplay to Apple. MS can still go around Fairplay using same technique used by a programmer in Norway(?). As long as the record labels approve use of the technique, I don’t think Apple can prevent anyone from resampling the music. I doubt Fed will be problem either, since MS is not using its position as a monopolist to kill/prevent the competition, it is opening up the market to more competition.
Seahawk: Too bad. I thought maybe you had discovered some new info. Knowing might shed some light on things, like whether it is Apple or Veridisc who is being coy.
Some one claims Apple bought Veridisc/Fairplay from the owner, Circle Group Holdings.
http://www.macobserver.com/comments/commentindivdisplay.shtml?id=39125
s: thanks for the link. Unsurprising, if true. Veridisc would have been making something of it if Apple weren’t in complete control of it.
Seahawk, haven’t read you for a while. Welcome back.
Here is some more idea on WMA player plug-in Apple should provide.
1) Installing the plug-in will install QuickTime & iTune.
2) The plug-in will allow WMA player to playback AAC/Fairplay tune using QuickTime.
3) If downloading WMA tunes to iPod, the plug-in should ask the user if they want to convert WMA tune to AAC/Fairplay. The plug-in will convert the WMA to AAC and remove DRM record in WMA for that tune (iPod will only play back AAC, so the tunes need to be converted.). The record added to iTune library, so the converted tunes show up in iTune.
4) The plug-in should add a button in WMA for iTMS. When user clicks the button, launch iTune.
5) Allow WMA to access iTune library by clicking on import music from iTune (this can be done by allowing WMA player to list library in iTune).
Note: The plug-in does not allow conversion from AAC/Fairplay back to WMA. I’m sure MS will be implementing that part.