“For users who want the slick BMW or Lexus of computers for a slight premium over the more pedestrian models, the Mac clearly wins. But the basic guts and functionality aren’t all that much different from Fords and Chevys. It’s a smoother, more enjoyable ride, but most people and corporations don’t mind a few bumps if they can pay less,” Dan
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Am I the only one noticing this trend of talking the Mac down and the iPod up in the same sentence? Are these journalists trying to kid us that they are being objective, or are they subconsiously wanting Apple to kill the Mac and become an iPod seller to justify their crappy Windows purchase?
Farber has a point, as far as Apple’s approach to business users over the years. But targeting consumers has allowed them to float lightly, rather than getting locked down into problem platforms. They’ve been able to update meaningfully and repeatedly, and have now achieved a rock-solid OS equalled by none. Now they’re good and ready to take a look at biz, and biz is starting to notice. Once the movement gathers momentum change will be swift.
The error here is ‘the basic guts and functionality aren’t all that much different’.
That’s true of BMW versus Ford, but not of Mac versus PC. The physical hardware may well be very similar in both, but the underlying software absolutely is not.
They are absolutely similar in terms of functionality. Apps available on both may be virtually identical, but Mac has much better software architecture. Think Windows Registry, think uninstall nightmare.
I gave up on Windows after the So-Big virus messed up three of my computers, and I enjoy the Panther interface. BUT ,no, Mac has not given me way less trouble and irritation than XP. I have reformatted twice, taken out haxies, only used Apple memory and still have Kernel Panics and power management problems. My experience is that both platforms have the user spending too much time tweaking instead of being productive. Until one can turn on their computer appliance and use it with the reliability of a TV I don’t think it productive to take offense at criticism based on user experience, no matter what the source.
B Savage… Rest assured that your Mac experience is nowhere normal.
Are you running OSx? I’ve been an iMac user for 2 years… and have never had any problems. I’m on the computer 10 hours a day at least… it runs my business and my life.
After two decades of continually losing data and time with MicroSoft operating systems – I finally have a rock solid reliable computer. Thank you Apple.
B Savage,
I develop software (meaning stuff that often goes out of its way to do something really bad) including real time networked software, and I used to have problems with OS 9 and earlier, but I have never been able to cause a kernel panic on OS X. I have never had to reformat a hard drive.
I’m a bit skeptical about the reported issues that “B Savage” has had. This sounds SO far out of line with the reality that I and every user I know has ever experienced with OS X. Very suspicious.
B Savage, possibly you should not install haxies, I don’t and haven’t encountered problems that would cause me to reinstall. It is possible that your kernel panics resulted from bad Apple RAM as well.
B Savage,
It sounds like you are practicing standard Windows behaviour in attempting to deal with your Mac.
Formatting your HD is in most cases only needed in truly extreme cases.
Also… if you are installing haxies you should expect problems.
I wonder what B Savage is running on his computer? The only time I had a problem with my iBook was right before the motherboard failed last October. Other than that, I’ve never had a kernel panic with OS X.
And my iBook stays running 24/7. Don’t reboot unless a System Update requires me to.
He’s ZDNet editor and pays people to make house calls to help with computer problems?
I’ve had kernel panics on my mac with OS X, though not since 10.1. To think that *no* Macs *ever* have problems is to invite ridicule. Maybe B Savage has got a lemon of a computer. That can happen. To think that Macs are perfect, or anywhere near perfect, is just dumb. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Mac considerably more (like, way more) than the PC I have to use at work, but it’s not without its headaches. (don’t even get me started on the crappy new Panther finder)
For those that have XP and OSX in the same room….could you please keep an honest tally of crashes….and restarts. Those statistics will come in handy. I am a curious joe and I like real world results. Anyone?
Those who do not actually have any credible experience with the Mac OS yet insist on writing comparison articles lack credibility themselves.
Only equally misinformed readers would believe their claims as anything more than weak attempts at putting Windows in the same league with the much superior OS X. A laughable exercise indeed.
As for stability issues:
I just refer to one of our iMACs that has been running off the same boot of OS X Jaguar for the last 3.5 months without the need for a restart.
I have yet to find any version of the Windows OS that would be able to run this long without encountering major issues requiring a reboot.
Of course there are a few Mac users that have had problems, but compared to Windows, these users are few and far between and in no way approaches the level of instability Windows users deal with as a matter of so-called NORMAL operating behavior.
Bottom line:
Mac users tend to demand far more from their computers than Windows users. They rely on the machine’s reliability as an integral requirement for earning their livings as creative professionals. What most Windows users would consider a necessary evil of personal computing experience, is simply not acceptable to a Mac professional.
I guess when your personal time is worth so little in real world dollars and cents, you can afford to look the other way at the thousands of wasted hours the average Windows user expends in a lifetime dealing with the mediocrity that is the Wintel experience.
The only time I had a Kernel panic with OSX was with Virtual PC (MacOSX 10.1.5 and VPC5.0 – a known problem that was fixed in a VPC update). Since then, I have only had to force quit the occasional application.
MacOSX is a dream.
DD
I have had Kernel Panics daily since installing and reinstalling Panther- including the updates thru 10.3.2. Every few times my G4 tries to sleep the screen shuts down but not the CPU. This is despite hauling it in to Apple for memory checks, and running NO haxies or wierd stuff. If you check Kernel Panics on Google you will find that I am not alone.
….and yes, I’ve trashed preferences, run Diskwarrior, shut of stuff in my startup etc, etc etc
Hey BS/B Savage (same guy)?
The only Kernel panics I’ve had were due to my USB hubs. I think the problem is that they are powered by the USB and don’t receive additional power. The panics came when my ‘puter tried to sleep. I don’t have it go to sleep anymore and I have no more kernel panics.
I am going to replace the USB hubs and see if that resolves the issue.
Have you taken your Mac to an Apple store and had the genius bar look at it? That’s a good place to go. What about the Apple discussion boards on [url=http://www.apple.com/support/?]http://www.apple.com/support/?[/url] Also good!
Trust me about reliability. I have used Windows since Windows was invented, and Macs since OS 4. Deep down inside, Windows is a nightmare. You may not recognize it yet, but you will!
B Savage: Move the microwave away from your computers. You can walk into another room to heat your bean burritos.
From the article: “”On the other hand, Apple has achieved extraordinary success with the iPod.” Why is this relevant to the article? It seems to come out of nowhere.
hi b savage/bs
your problem is so atypical – you can’t say it’s an os thing. have you tried creating a new account?… have you tried setting your machine to not sleep?
Atypical problems are rare by definition–but of course they do happen sometimes! And it you’re the unlucky one, it’s no fun. Any time I hear of frequent problems with a cleanly-installed OS X, I strongly suspect a hardware failure. Apple has the lowest failure rate of any PC maker, but Macs still do break down. Best of luck tracking that down. An intermittent hardware issue is the hardest to locate. Your hardware test CD is a start, though.
As for me, even OS X Public Beta was more stable than any OS I’ve used, including OS 9 and and Windows XP. Panther is better yet
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“…We suggest that if Farber was honest, he would admit his Mac have far fewer problems than his Windows PC’s. That has been our experience with Mac OS X vs. Windows XP, which holds true to form over the past 20 years of Mac and Windows use.”
Not to pick nits, but Windows has only been truly usable since Win3.0, so the Mac has about six years or so of advantage in that respect!
BS: Quit driving your Mac like a PC, you have to unrelearn some pesky driving techniques, such as customising the hell out of the interface with Haxies and stuff.
All USB hubbers out there: if you have a PowerMac, chuck the hub out of the window and get a decent PCI USB card, if you need more ports, add them to your box instead of adding kernel panics to your life.
PowerBook USB hubbers, read on:
A client complained because her mouse started acting weird, (freezing every couple of seconds) and she had experienced some kernel panics. Her setup consists of a printer, a CD burner, a 2-button scroll mouse, an Apple keyboard and a set of SoundStick 2:1 speakers. Pretty much everything was connected to her PowerBook through a USB hub: BAD THINKING.
The best USB hub for the Mac is an external Apple keyboard. Seriously, follow me on this one. I set up my client’s gear thusly:
1) trashed the USB hub. R.I.P
2) connected the keyboard to the PowerBook
3) connected the mouse to the keyboard
4) connected the SoundSticks to the PowerBook
Sounds lame for a technical advice, eh? You’d say “Where’s the Printer and the CD Burner connected?”. Oh yee of little faith, read on:
Now, my client has flawless mouse behaviour, and since she won’t be using the printer and cd burner concurrently, she can easily plug either device to the keyboard when needed.
In under three minutes and absolutely not touching her Jaguar install, I solved many problems by simply rethinking the plumbing. Remember that USB hubs are pushed by sales droids, because virtually all USH hubs are nothing but a plastic shell with some basic wiring and circuitry. Dirt cheap to produce (a handful of bucks) and are agressively marked up, tha math is easy: sell a Mac or sell half a dozen USB hubs, the profit is equal.
i have a Albook 1.25 MacOS 10.3.2 (never reformatted)
and a home built 2.6p4 800fsb ddr400 etc…. Win2k SP4 (had to reformat once)
the HONEST uptime of the mac is a few months, but that is only because of our friend software update. The PC needs to be restarted 3-5 per week.
Most of the Restarts on the PC side are caused by DX9-DX8 games.
Look at this- I’ve turned a comment about an article into a tech support board! Seriously, I appreciate all the feedback. Just to let you know definitively about my Mac G4 Dual processor experience. There are no haxies/usb hubs/messing with my computer. As for driving windows, the OS X book sits right by my keyboard and I may hold the world record for researching this particular problem. The only non-mac equiptment I use are a logitech wireless mouse and a logitech usb microphone Only had the mike a few days). My kernel panics seemed to come after OS X 3.0 was upgraded to 3.1 and worse in 3.2 and I am beginning to wonder if installing the earthlink total access program has exacerbated the problems. My trip to the Apple Brain counter was more than frustrating by the way.
As to the original comment I made, please be assured that I have no intention of ever returning to Windows, I really enjoy the Mac. I have bought my daughter an I-Mac already and will be buying my wife a replacement (maybe I’ll give her mine and get me a G5) for her Dell next month.