Thurrott: If Microsoft can secure Windows, why can’t Apple secure iTunes Music Store?

“I subscribe to a line of thinking that goes like this: Windows is attacked so often because it controls such a large portion of the market. Period. So we might be able to apply this thinking to another popular software market–online music services, in which the Apple Computer iTunes Music Store dominates,” Paul Thurrott writes for Paul Thurrott’s WinInfo. “Predictably, iTunes, like Windows, is attacked far more often than its Windows-based competitors. Or is it? The truth is that iTunes is compromised far more often than Windows-based services, but how often hackers attack Microsoft’s Digital Rights Management (DRM) scheme is unclear. Regardless, iTunes, like pre-XP SP2 versions of Windows, has fallen time and again under the withering attack of hackers who are intent on gaining access to the service. Doing so is amazingly easy. Last week, infamous encryption hacker DVD Jon broke through Apple’s weak security and offered Windows and Linux users a way to purchase iTunes tracks without DRM. Apple fixed the hole, of course. But a day later–just 1 day–DVD Jon was back with a new version of his hack that foiled Apple’s efforts. My question is simple. If Microsoft can secure a system as complex as Windows, why can’t Apple secure one service?”

Full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: Thurrott “subscribes to a line of thinking” that is obviously wholly unique this side of schizophrenia; we can’t help wondering if his rate is competitively priced to Napster To Go’s $14.95 a month. If Paul stops paying his fees, would he start thinking logically? For entertainment purposes alone, we hope Microsoft never stops covering Paul’s subscription expenses.

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75 Comments

  1. iTunes hasn’t been ‘attacked’. It hasn’t been ‘hacked’. Access to the music store has been accessed by a third party program that does not apply the DRM to the music the same way iTunes does. Solution? Apple changes their distribution to now apply the DRM to music on it’s server, before it transmits the information to your iTunes client. Now, no matter which client conects to the music store, the music paid for (this is key, you have to PAY for your music before you download it) is downloaded WITH the DRM already in it.

    Thurrotts idea of security leaves a lot to be desired. And did he actually say “If Microsoft can secure a system as complex as Windows..”?!

  2. “If Microsoft can secure a system as complex as Windows, why can’t Apple secure one service?”
    Did I miss something here. Is he saying that Windoze is secure?
    Gotta luv Thurrott!

  3. OMG, this guy must have lost his job writing propaganda for the USSR. No WAIT didn’t someone once note that he does this crap on purpose in order to get hits from all of us Mac users? I’m not sure.

  4. “If Microsoft can secure a system as complex as Windows, why can’t Apple secure one service?”

    The first part of the premise is false. MS havs shown “time and again” that they cannot secure Windows, and the results are *devastating* for users.

    Hackers intercept Apple’s DRM stream, and that really is devastating for no one. The only victim is Apple, as they have to answer to the record companies.

    But the reason is understandable. DRM cannot thus far be applied to the purchased music files until they are downloaded. The hackers interrupt the DRM process, and they have the music file– big whoop– not really a hack so much as a work-around. And no one’s data is compromised.

    Again, big whoop. Almost makes me want to “thorrott” up.

  5. Microsoft can secure Windows? They haven’t done that yet…

    As for this iTunes stuff, I don’t know enough about it to have a thought. But it doesn’t sound right….

  6. He’s demonstrated that he is a total dumbass time and time again.

    What gets me is that he blatantly bends the truth to suit his message.

    Apple have a problem with someone masquerading a program as iTunes. That’s not hacking a server at all.

    It is truly amazing what journalist think they can say.

  7. “I see MDN doesn’t really have any response for Mr. Thurrott. So how ’bout it, then? Why is iTMS hacked so continuously?”

    Two DVD Jon incidents = continuously??!! Such as for years, like Windoze? Fact is, MS have demonstrated that they cannot secure Windoze, so TurdRot’s premise is false from its inception.

  8. Let’s consider the inaccuracies:

    If MS can secure Windows – already covered.

    iTunes has fallen time and again – time and again implies more than twice.

    Doing so is amazingly easy – a miniscule percentage of the world’s population has the expertise. It’s like saying it would be easy for Michael Jordan to beat me in a game of one on one.

    It took DVD Jon 1 day – he obviously hacked iTunes 4.6 and 4.7 together and staggered the releases.

  9. Just a suggestion MDN, when reporting crap from this guy don’t include a link to his website. If you all have a Mac new reporters network, pass it on to the rest of the reporters.

  10. Well, this is actually from one of the many Penton Media websites to whom Thurrott whores his “professional” opinion, so I doubt very much that Thurrott gets any cash from this personally.

    That said, this does actually qualify as one of Paulie’s most surreal articles and one can’t help but wonder if he’s been overdoing the celebrations since Superbowl added to his World Series celebrations.

    What dear old Paul fails to appreciate is that there is a wealth of difference between “hacking” the Fairplay DRM – which is there to inconvenience commercial music pirates and indiscriminate file sharers – and the 100,000+ pieces of malware that infest his “secure” platform due to Redmond’s overweaning desire to build everything into operating system and the holes left as a result.

  11. Jon’s program enables you to play purchased iTunes songs without the DRM. This isn’t new, and it’s not exactly a security problem. You can essentially do the same thing a multitude of ways including the really crude way of using a tape recorder and recording the song through the speaker as you play it. In fact, iTunes itself provides a way of playing and saving purchased songs without the DRM just by creating a CD. Now if Jon had found out a way to download songs from iTunes without having to pay for them, then yes, Apple has a security problem.

    He says that “iTunes…is attacked far more often than its Windows-based competitors”.
    1.) maybe it’s because of Windows. I don’t think Jon ever made a Mac version
    2.) “far more” equals how many? Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t know of any other issues besides DVD Jon’s program.

    “My question is simple. If Microsoft can secure a system as complex as Windows, why can’t Apple secure one service?””
    1.) obvious flaws in this statement beginning with the assumption that Windows is secure, but why doesn’t he flip the question so that it reads, “If Apple can secure a system as complex and superior as OS X, why can’t Microsoft secure one service (like Outlook, Internet Explorer, MSN Messenger…)?

  12. If MS can secure Windows !!!!!

    LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

  13. DakRoland is correct, this isn’t a security issue with iTunes. iTunes hasn’t made your computer less secure, there is simply another program that bypasses a DRM. People running Windows would love to be so lucky.

  14. All you misunderstand old Thouroot. If you read the original article you can notice that the last question was “Why Apple can’t secure OUR (not one) service”

  15. If Microsoft can secure a system as complex as Windows, why can’t Apple secure one service?”

    Since when has Windows ever been secure? PT is nothing but a tool. The CERN alerts pile in my email daily about the vulnerabilities of Windows. Comparing an OS to a single application is not even a comparison.

    The question Paul the Tool should ask is “Why can’t Microsoft secure their OS as well as Apple’s?”

  16. Has everyone forgotten that the hack still requires the song to be paid for? Yeah, it’s a hack, but it’s not an all-out security exploit.

    Yikes Thurrott– I sense a bit of glibness, although it’s considerably off-base.

  17. Why is this site serving up POP-UNDER ads? So that you can piss of Mac users? or give Windoze visitors more ammo to attack you? How short sighted can you be?
    AM

  18. do NOT click through to his site –you’ll only be giving him what he wants. he’s an a$$clown of the highest order and as such does not deserve the hits… “If Microsoft can SECURE a system as complex as Windows…” ???? er… wha?!

  19. Hey I don’t like Thurrott as much as the next guy. But stop ragging on Napster to go. I actually like the idea. I’ve purchased about 400 songs on iTMS. Thats $400. I’ve been doing this for about 2 years. That comes to $16.67 a month. For the same amount of money, I could have a ton more songs on my iPod if I did a monthly subscription. The only way purchasing from iTMS comes out on top is if I stopped buying music today and never made another purchase. And do I really own the song? I can’t sell it. So how do I technically own it? I own CD’s. I can sell them to a used cd store.

    Besides, does MDN complain that they pay for cable tv every month? What a waste of money. What happens if you stop paying? You no longer have any of the shows you watched. Same principle.

    So when Steve Jobs announces the iTMS subscription, make sure you blast it as being stupid just like Napster to Go.

  20. “Annoyed” wrote, ”How upset can the RIAA and friends get? They are still getting their blasted money.”

    Very upset when the download did not include DRM and that file is distributed to 100’s of people. Instead of “earning” hundreds of dollars, the RIAA got part of a buck. DRM is the cornerstone for the RIAA to “allow” for the legal, purchasing of music. Apple NEEDS to be concerned about unauthorized access to iTunes. Even the perception of “not being secure” is a problem for Apple. Wasn’t it Mr. Jobs himself that pointed out to the record companies that Napster could be hacked?

  21. Why does everyone assume that if I use PyMusique to download a song, I’ll post it to P2P networks to share with others. Have you people been so brainwashed about DRM that you think a person can have a song free of DRM who doesn’t share it out? Why would someone even want to share a song that they PURCHASED using PyMusique? Do you think CD’s should be banned because they don’t have DRM? After all, if I buy a CD, I must be a thief because there is no DRM to prevent me from sharing the songs to a P2P network.

    It sounds to me like there are a lot of people on this site who would be out of control thieves if they weren’t saved by DRM music. I guess a lot of you must thank Apple everyday for “saving” you from the temptation of purchasing CD’s and copying them to P2P’s. Thank God for Apple and DRM.

  22. Keep in mind, this only works on WINDOWS computers running iTunes. The security problem is essentially STILL with Windows. Apple is just having to compensate for this lack of security with fixes on their end. At least SOMEONE is. iTunes+Mac=one widget. ANYTHING+Windows=a freakin’ mess.

  23. “The truth is that iTunes is compromised far more often than Windows-based services”

    Is it indeed? Please provide specific examples instead of making groundless statements.

    “Why is iTMS hacked so continuously?”

    Hairbo,
    Same goes for you. Do you know of any examples of iTunes being compromised, much less “continuously”, or are you merely taking Thurrott’s statements at face value? Just because he says it doesn’t make it true.

  24. I love it that Thurrot can still pull in the comments like this! He sure still hasn’t lost his touch!

    It’s been such a long time since we heard anything controversial from him that we thought he may have swithched sides!

    Look out,, Enderle will be next.

    BTW split my sides laughing at this page…

  25. Folks,

    Thurrot’s logic is actually correct. In the form “p implies q”, when p is false anything can be put in for q and the proposition as a whole is correct. “If elephants are made f green cheese, then Thurrot is as smart as Einstein” is a correct proposition – logically speaking. Thurrot’s problem is his lack of touch with reality…

  26. Sunhawk owns a patent covering client-server music sales involving a client application arbitrating the purchase, authorization and download of music files that are encrypted on the server side with the receipt of a key by the client application that is needed to access or play the encrypted music file.

    Checkout US Patent number – 5,889,860

    This somewhat limits how Apple is able to manage transfer of music that is to be DRM controlled.

  27. Actually iTunes is more than one program, even by platform. iTunes for Windows uses the Windows webkit (IE) and the Macintosh version uses the Apple webkit (Safari). Throw in Quicktime (the engine that is at the heart of of iTunes), Rendezvous (Bonjour?, I favor something else) , & synchronization. That’s a very complex collection of code. The fact that PT and most everybody else sees it as a simple application speaks volumes about the quality of Apple’s software developers. Apple just makes it look easy.

  28. SHAME on ANYONE who clicked on his link!

    This guy is shameful and REALLY should be ignored.

    He was funny but now the only thing funny about him now is what other’s write about him.

    He’s a shithead that would be only to pleased to sell his grandmother for another 1k.

  29. For those who are proclaiming about not clicking on TurdRots links, why not tell MDN not post such obvious tripe to make anyone with a couple of firing synapses to check out the whole story to make sure MDN isn’t stuck along in the same sort of reality distortion field as the authors it abhore before commenting on it here?

  30. If this TurdRot article requires a paid subscription to Windows IT Pro, why does MDN pay for one itself?…

    So Macaday, you would agree then – shame on MDN for even publishing the link to Thurott’s article!

  31. Here is one funny comment left after Thurrott’s article defending the moron:

    “I say good for Paul. And I disagree with my IT buddies here.

    As long as guys like Paul keeps up the perception that Windows is as secure as an OS can be, then people will keep buying.

    And that keeps me in a job. Not as high paying as it used to be, but it keeps me employed.

    People forget the complexity and insecurity of MS products has created an enormous industry to support it.

    My family and I thank you Paul. And to the other IT guys here: keep your yap shut. If Windows or the other MS products were really as good as the marketing and the MS friendly press said, you’d be selling real estate–if you were lucky.

    Anonymous User -March 25, 2005″

    (Magic word “Job”)

  32. Windows supershite – his website name is kinda telling don;t you think.

    Anyways, if DVD john had managed to really crack the iTMS, i.e. allow you to DL tunes without paying, then that would have been news. Simply allowing you to buy tunes from Linux is not a crack and the DRM you can remove anyway buy simply burning a CD.

    I guess we should give him some credit though – he finally admitted that Windows is broken!.

    Someone should ask him for his expert opinion as to when it will be fixed – that should keep him tongue tied for a bit!

  33. um… twice is “repeatedly”? Whew… strange. I can’t imaging what it’s like to “defend” something like Windows. I understand if you’re forced to use it for some remaining niche app like MathSoft’s MathCAD or ProE, or SolidWorks… but to defend and prop up junk like that? Kinda like having to argue that Lisa is the funniest Simpson.

  34. It is incumbent upon someone in the community to teach this odious fool the delights of masturbation. This would benefit everyone as it would keep his hands occupied and away from a keyboard.

    It is ever my fervent hope that he someday qualifies for a Darwin Award.

  35. Jeff,

    RE: Your comments about “Napster To Go”…

    You say you spent $400 on songs – and that averages to a little more than a monthly subscription service, the way you figured it. Great.

    However, please consider this… In 5 years, you’ll still have those songs that you purchased, and that “per year” paid average will go way down, especially if you never buy another song, but you’ll still have those 400 songs. If you switch to a subscription service, how much will you have paid in that same time period? As much as if you’d been purchasing them at your previous rate. And, if you then quit paying that for that subscription, for whatever reason, what happens? The music goes away. The playlists go away. And what do you have left to show for it? Receipts and silence. How is it that a subscription service is a better deal than paying for your music once the first time, and never having to pay for it again, versus paying for it again and again and again, month after month, with nothing to show for it when you stop paying?

  36. Jeff, my apologies – Seems you already understand one of the points I was trying to make about your purchased music collection. However, to answer one of your questions – yes, you DO own those songs. Can anyone take that song away from you? No. Can Apple come back and say, “We changed our minds – you are going to have to pay us again to listen to that music”? I sincerely doubt it. Just because you can’t ‘sell’ it to anyone else doesn’t mean YOU don’t own it. You even agreed not to sell it when you bought it in the first place. See http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/legal/policies.html for exactly what you CAN do with your music.

    And be careful, too – if you sell your CDs, but then don’t erase the songs from those CDs that you’ve ripped into iTunes and loaded onto your iPod, then technically, you’ve stolen those songs. Don’t steal music.

    I think Steve Jobs said at one point not too distantly in the past that a subscription model was a “stupid idea” and it would never be a viable, profitable option. Looks like Steve blasted it just fine to begin with. I’ll come back to this site and post a link to a picture of me eating my hat if Apple ever offers a subscription service through iTMS while Steve Jobs is in charge.

    And, BTW, Jeff – I don’t have cable, either.

  37. Jeff wrote: “Why would someone even want to share a song that they PURCHASED using PyMusique?”

    Are you being brainwashed enough by your anti-DRM friends that you can’t realise that almost pirated songs on p2p networks were once bought?

    They didn’t appear by magic, someone bought a CD, ripped the tracks and put them on p2p networks. Same can be said about the iTMS tracks that had the DRM removed and are -currently- on p2p networks. Someone, somewhere bought the tune and found a way to put it on p2p using “Robin Hood Jon”s tool. And I didn’t even talk about the fact that there are exclusive tunes on the iTMS.

    Anyway Thurrot is a living proof that someone can spread FUD for Microsoft in the light of the day and that none can do anything about it. Can you imagine the tons of “ghost writers” working for Microsoft that do it in a more subtle way in the mainstream press every day?

    It has been shown that pharmaceutical companies do that, they pay medical journalists to write an article about their product, asking them to put portray their product in a positive way while bashing the competitors product in a more subtle way with numbers and studies. Sometimes the journalist doesn’t even write the article, he just puts his name on it.

  38. re Neil:

    THURROT IS NOT A JOURNALIST!

    Trained Journalists are trained to write accurate, balanced and researched copy.

    Thuurot breaks all the basic guidelines of Journalism becuae he IS NOT a Journalist and never will be.

    Thurrot is just yet another 2-bit internet ‘hack’ who thinks he knows everything oabout everything and he also thinks that ‘his’ opinion is good Journalism.

    If you speak to any IT Journalist and mention Thurrots name they will jusy laugh – because even his peers can’t take the idiot seriously because they know all about his inaccurate and libalus copy.

    Take everything Thurrot writes with a pinch of salt – because everyone does!

    Even better don’t even bother reading his rubbish – maybe the scum will go back undefr his rock eventually.

  39. This isnt really a security threat of any kind except to the record labels and Apples DRM. I wont click on the link to give that bare-assed monkeys uncle a hit, but I doubt he mentions the Napster snafu recently.

  40. Well there certainly is some fumbling BS in Pauls article as usual.

    1. iTunes has never been “hacked” or “attacked”
    2.DVD Jon’s PyMystique was a WIn / Linux app to access the store where you still had to set-up an account and PAY for what you downloaded.
    3. The 2nd version released now only supports Linux, with no future plans for a Win version.

    If you read Jon’s latest blog he explains this was intentionally meant to offer Linux users a way to enjoy what the rest of us do.. the iTunes/iPod experience.

    Shame on Thurott once again.
    And how is Windows secure????
    !
    Sheesh

  41. Not a news item. You still pay for the music and what you do with it is your problem, not Apple’s.

    I don’t really like to DRM on the songs I BUY from iTunes. Gradually I’m removing it from my songs. Do I share them, no, I abide by the rules, I just remove the enforcement. If I had a good way of backing up my iPod I would probably not care. I don’t want to loose my hard earned money if or when my iPod fails.

    Thieving is so common in this country we don’t even look on it as wrong. That said, it’s still not right and DRM isn’t the correct answer.

  42. Just because there is a “hack” or hole” in the iTMS isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In this case, it’s actually a good thing, but it doesn’t affect Mac users.

  43. This logic means then that:

    Windows is insecure because it has larger marketshare… period (not because Mac OS X is fundamentally more secure).

    which must mean

    iTunes DRM is insecure because it has larger marketshare… period (not because Windows Media is fundamentally more secure).

    So marketshare alone dictates security and not the underlying technology.

  44. Hey MDN:

    A couple of hints for ya:

    1. If you want to bash Mac haters, fine, don’t link to them. It’s like handing them money. Don’t reward the Mac Haters. If people really want to read the article, they can google it.

    2. The pop-unders are a beating. Keep making your stupid excuses, but no other Mac site needs to do them to pay the bills. It’s going to be even harder to sell ads when no one comes to your site anymore.

  45. Thurrott should be hired by China Daily as a technology writer he would fit right in and he’s really good at writing these stories with a little twist. Too bad most people see through his writings that he is not as intelligent as he appears to be and that is making him look like a turd. Just wondering how he feels after he has published a story and later realizes he had made a total ass of himself. Would it be intersting to interview him on those grounds: Mr. Thurrott you just made a total idiot of yourself, how do you feel now? Do you feel like you are learning from your mistakes? How about your co-workers and friends, it must be terrible for them? Etc. Now, who would like to do this interview?

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