“Adobe has just posted a rather comprehensive FreeHand to Illustrator Migration Guide as well as a brief technical resource paper to their Design Center. Although it’s thoughtful of Adobe to put together such helpful guides for longtime FreeHand users, one can’t help but think the writing is on the wall for FreeHand and its users. Nevertheless, the guides appear to be helpful and worth a look if you happen to be considering the switch,” George Penston reports for Creative Toolbox. “It’s interesting to speculate what Adobe is planning on doing with all the competing products they now have in their product lineup. I think many of us felt FreeHand would be the first or obvious casualty of the acquisition…”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Nick” for the heads up.]
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Related article:
What will users lose as Adobe swallows Macromedia? – April 19, 2005
Adobe to acquire Macromedia in $3.4 billion stock deal – April 18, 2005
so sad…Lets hope Adobe AT THE VERY LEAST takes some of the things from freehand and incorporates them into illustrator. I hate being forced away from a superior app.
About damn time they got rid of that POS
MW – finally
Superior app? What make and app superior when evey time you open a doc the type re-warps and even re-wraps when you change the color of type. What a joke..
Freehand is crap. It’s time for it to die.
MDN word: seemed. Freehand seemed good, but it wasn’t.
ipodboy — I think you should learn write correctly before posting anythings.
Please proofread your comments before you post!
gforce is correct. FreeHand had so much more flexibility than Illushitor, which still can’t do multi-page documents. Plus, FreeHand is still lean and mean in its current version. Illushitor, on the other hand? Can you say “bloated” and “slow”?
Yaah. I knew you could.
Ohh, and . . . pardon my language, kids. Mister Rogers is just a little pissed at Adobe. Can you all say “pissed”?
Freehand – a love/hate relationship…either you love it or you hate it!
And now, you either love that it might be going away, or you hate that it might be going away…
Now what about Director. Don’t tell me Flash is up to replacing this quality tool.
Okay?
You are just another uninformed mindless troll that has been brainwashed into thinking that Freehand is the best – You go to any printer or design house and see what the real aplications are that are used and I will bet that it sure as hell isn’t Freehand.
Would Adobe consider putting up Freehand for FREE downloading? Perhaps this could entice many to pay for an upgrade to Illustrator later.
Freehand and Illustrator are ILLUSTRATION programs NOT Page layout apps – Whay the hell do you need multible pages in an Illustration program – If that is all Freehand has over Illustrator – what a waste.
I agree with gforce, there are several things that Freehand did much easier than Illustrator does. Like text wrapping around a circle for instance. In FH, if you want the first word on top of the circle attached by the bottom of the text and then a second word on the bottom attached by the top of the text, you merely need to hit the Return key. In Illustrator, It’s 10X harder, and just poorly planned. There are several other features of FH that are easier too, but that’s the one I find most irritating.
Don’t get me wrong, Illustrator has some superior features too, and FH has been getting worse with each release since 8 which was the best IMHO. I really hope they take the good things about FH and add them to AI.
Freehand is crap? Give me a break. Illustrator doesn’t even offer multi-page support. Plus is it’s print/document setup and palettes are a pain in the ass to use. I should know, I have to use both everyday. There’s something to be said for Freehand’s simplicity.
Oh my god! They killed FH!
I only hope Xara can compete. The only think I like from adobe is Photoshop. And that’s because there’s not that much choice out there.
ipodboy: You’re clearly a little boy, especially if you have to guess what “aplications” are used at real design houses and printers. You know, since they all take vector files with no problem, dipshit.
I run a “design house”, and we’re far more efficient with FreeHand than we ever were with that bloatware known as Illustrator.
The best thing Adobe could do would be to study and dissect the code base from FreeHand and learn how to make Illustrator leaner, while incorporating many of FreeHand’s superior features.
Now go sell crazy someplace else. We’re all stocked up here.
this is so sad. I wish someone would buy the Freehand sourcecode and get back to the coding. It’s beyond me how this app could be killed off because of illustrator. Even tho I work fluently in both apps, there is nothing close to freehand when it comes to pure vector modeling. Yes, lots of things suck in Freehand – but overall, I’d say that FH is closer to perfect. I remember some stats a couple a years back of all those high-profile designers and/or famous design studios who almost all were die-hard Freehand users. I think it was in ComputerArts or the like. Me Company, Designers Republic, Tomato, Method Studios, Glass Works, Imaginary Forces etc. At least the stats made Illustrator look quite tired.
I know I’m gonna stay with Freehand – and I’m not alone.
“Would Adobe consider putting up Freehand for FREE downloading?”
If FH were free, 80% of AI business would disappear.
Uhh….anyone who complains about Illustrator not being able to do multiple pages really doesn’t get the concept of layout. Illustrator and Freehand are for doing vector graphics, like logos….just because it’s possible to do a full magazine spread in .AI format doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. I can’t stand getting these huge bloated 200MB illustrator files from graphic customers that could have just as easily been 4MB quark or InDesign layouts.
This is a surprise to no one. I use both and the latest version of Freehand sucks compared to Illustrator. There was a time when it was more even, but that time has come and gone.
That said, I do miss the curved text function from the Illustrator 8/9 era….
Yeah these things might bee easier to do in Freehand but try to do those things in a consistant and repeatable manner. The results will always be different. This is especially bad if you are producing anything where accurcacy and consistancy are important. You just can’t do these things in Freehand – I will agree that Illustrator is a little slow but it really is much better.
Winchester — stop focusing on one aspect of FreeHand’s superiority. Just because you don’t find multi=page support worthwhile doesn’t mean everyone else agrees. It’s a godsend of a feature for comparing multiple versions of artwork in the SAME document.
But FreeHand also handled type MILES better than Illustrator . . . and unbelievably for Illustrator, FreeHand still does!
Illustrator just has so many ticks and quirks that NEVER seem to get corrected. Annoying, annoying , annoying . . .
Uhh….anyone who complains about Illustrator not being able to do multiple pages really doesn’t get the concept of layout.
Uhh…maybe you don’t get that other people use these programs for other purposes. Duh!
You don’t know the history of bezier curves. I do.
Thanks mac user 47 – at least someone here isn’t brainwashed by Freehand. Do they still make that program?
Okay?
Yeah – it handles type so well that every time I open up the file the type has re-wraped differnetly
the align functions in illustrator (as for all Adobe apps) are just as close to stupid as it gets. It’s still not possible to lock one object, select it – then us it as a (locked) reference object. BTW, this even works with single bezier points in FH. Calling this an important feature would be the understatement of the century. Can Illustrator do this? No. Do illustrator lemmings care? No. That is – until I show them what this means as of workflow enhancement. Now, this is just one out of many many things so much better solved in FH. Heck, Illustrator can’t even clone objects. Wait, I still run CS1 – maybe they copied some stuff from FH in CS2, dunno.
btw, sorry if this is a double post – MDN seems strange today
ipodboy — that’s because you’re 12 and don’t know how to manage your fonts yet.
Also, this just in: You’re a tool.
Adobe will be combining Freehand and Illustrator, to create Adobe Frustrator.
Can’t clone objects? wow I guess Illustrator’s copy-paste in front or in back (damn I can control where it goes) must have passed you by..I think that it has been in Illustrator at least since version 6.
“…I use both and the latest version of Freehand sucks compared to Illustrator…”
mind elaborating upon that statement…for the rest of us not seeing the truth as clearly as you? Maybe an example of one issue – and how you solve it in illustrator and then – how you cannot solve it in freehand. Thanks, I’m just curious.
Okay? I think you are the Tool and Yes I do know how to manage my fonts – it is just inexcusable that just changing the color of text will re-wrap type in Freehand. All your cutsie little things in Freehand are not well suited for real production. Don’t get me wrong Illustrator has a lot of improving to do but it is still miles ahead of Freehand in terms of production.
Very well done, Ted. Adobe Frustrator. It will be like dating a chick for months who tells you no when you make your move. The package will include 2 large blue balls.
Do you really want to know where my “freehand” has been today?
Cool trick: hold command and option and one can select text vertically. Amazing, you learn a new thing about Mac OS X everyday.
hey, “whatever” – copy+paste (in front or wherever) is a 2-click procedure whereas clone is a 1-click task. Just FYI.
And the second click in Freehand is to move it to the position you need it in at least in Illustrator you are done.
Hey guys who are bashing Freehand . . .
Freehand is indeed superior in many ways over Illustrator. Just because print shops use Illustrator as a standard does not make it better. Most print houses are not technologically advanced. They are the lowest level of the industry.
We all know that IE has a majority share of the market, so does Windows. Are they better?
Adobe’s products are not superior, they just have had an upper hand in marketing and getting their products setup as standards.
Both Illustrator and Freehand have their strengths. But both could really use an overhaul as well.
If Freehand is so good then why do ALL printers accept files in Adobe Illustrator and only a few accept Freehand files? This should tell you something.
did anyone try to run freehand in Rosetta? Does it break? That would be a dealbreaker for me.
My poo is a plug.
What happens when it pops out?
“A Real Design Professional” you try to get printing plats correct out of Freehand then you will understand why printers use Illustrator – and It isn’t Adobe’s Marketing
If Freehand is so good then why do ALL printers accept files in Adobe Illustrator and only a few accept Freehand files? This should tell you something.
Most printers around these parts take both types. And one in particularr I know of prefers Freehand.
DAMN. I am going to miss Freehand.
That was the better app. I especially loved that perspective guideline tool.
Give me that name of that printer and I will make sure to stay miles away from them. – I guarantee they aren’t printing anything that matters.
Hey a real design professional:
I am sure there is a prepress house that just loves when your jobs come in and they have to fix them. NEVER ask a designer what the best program is. Ask a prepress technician who has to fix all YOUR shit to make YOU look good for YOUR client. Freehand has always generated more postscript errors when RIPping files than Illustrator. Most “professionals” — and YOU use the term loosely because you are a designer — open your Freehand EPS files in Illustrator anyway. Unless you are the kind of ass that gives them Freehand native format files.
So remember that the next time you enter a piece to win some stupid design award because somewhere there is a prepress expert who made your job work on press AND YOU DON”T HAVE A F*CKING CLUE.
“whatever”, sorry – I don’t understand your workflow.
“…And the second click in Freehand is to move it to the position you need it in at least in Illustrator you are done…”
Now, why would I move it after I cloned it? The point of cloning is that I don’t want to move it. If I wanted to duplicate/replicate an object, group, outline or whatever to a different position – I would just hold alt. and drag it manually.
I agree that there might be some better features in Freehand but for the overall application Illustrator wins so hopefully what comes out of this is that they will add some of these features to Illustrator. I am sure that the reason that they are killing it is that it is not worth the cost to bring the antiquated code up to a level to convert it to a universal app
To place it in front or behind the original object – Sometimes I want it in front and some times in back (all right no smart comments on that please)
If I clone is it on top of the original object of behind?
I am waiting for your reply, real design “professional”.
“Clone” is the same thing as “Copy in Front” or “Copy in Back”
erich is right.
Thank you “A Real Prepress Professional” I couldn’t have said it better – I too work in the prepress field and you couldn’t be more right – Boy those misguided Freehand users
clone can’t be the same as 2 different commands –
Ha Ha! Very funny Angolina! If you were to go there, I’d make sure you were on the blacklist. And every other place I could find in town.
Man, this is almost as bad as the politcal articles.
Bush uses Illustrator!
There, I combined them both. How’s that?
illustrator doesn’t support HSB or HSL when using the “color adjuster” and live-scaling type is…kinda hard. But there are better plugs for ai and the postscript files are mostly cleaner. Overall the freehand solution is far more feature packed and intelligent as of workflow or straight forward problem-solving. But I need both in my daily work. I would be upset if illustrator would disappear as well.
So, is Dreamweaver next?
Billy Bob – go have some of those biscuits with mustard and go back to bed
I’m not a offset pre-press guy but it’s my understanding that they (printshops in town) all went direct to press or digital in the 90’s. You “professional” guys are still making plates? I think
you’re behind the times. Still using Syquest drives, too?
“whatever” – sorry, now I see what you’re aiming at. And you’re right. Only that I rarely use “in front” or “in back” like that. I try to layer the objects instead. More control. Also, please don’t get me wrong about my ai bashing – I use the app on a daily basis and I like it for certain things. Actually, ALL my final vector outputs go through ai – it’s just cleaner than FH. However, straight modeling requires (in almost all cases) less steps in FH compared to ai.
Angolina- MMMF…Some calls it a Kaizer blade. I calls it a slingblade.
In Illustrator, there is an option to CFopy in Front OR Copy in Back. Freehand does not give you an option. It justs puts it on top of the current selection. Glad I could clear that up for you anonymous loser.
Actually most are direct to plate not direct to press – Why do I want to buy 6 to 8 platesetters attached to my press when I can have one that services many presses? especially today when they can make plates in less than a minute.
And by CFopy I mean Copy.
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So sorry to see you back down, erich. You need to sack up, dude and take a stand. Or is your real name John Kerry?
ipodboy – you don’t know you ass from a hole in the ground. Your opinions about Illustrator being better than FH show that you don’t have a f*cking clue as to what you are talking about.
Now do us all a favor and shut your idiotic mouth. You are not only wasting space on this message board but you are wasting space on the planet Earth.
It is paste in front or paste in back I guess you cant put it behind in Freehand with out another click or 2 damn that is convenient.
Ampar: Dreamweaver is better than GoLive. They would probably dump GoLive before they dump Dreamweaver. Part of the reason they bought Macromedia is because Dreamweaver was kicking GoLive’s ass. Although I use GoLive to set up my sites, I eventually end up hand coding a lot because GoLive and Dreamweaver both add some terribly horrific scripting code.
Chris – go on and do your little wimpy web designing in Freehand then and leave the real work to the people that know better.
Freehand! Freehand! Freehand! Freehand!
BillyBob: Just because prepress and print shops go digital, doesn’t mean that skilled prepress technicians are no longer needed. Everything goes through a digital workflow. And files are still preflighted electronically, images are still edited in PhotoShop to improve final quality, and files sent to a RIP can be checked electronically ALL before outputting to plates. Printers may not go to film first, but clients still need to approve a digital proof and sign off on a press sheet.
As far as Syquests go, my Dual G5 Desktop with 3GB of RAM, my Dual G4 Desktop with 1.5GB of RAM and my G4 graphite Desktop with 1GB of RAM don’t seem to have a Syqest drive. But they al have internal or external SuperDrives, smart ass.
Freehand was almost as bad as Corel Draw.
Now that FH is dead (yes!) and there is no Corel Draw on the Mac, maybe print shops can breathe a sigh of relief.
And now, future generations can learn the RIGHT WAY to build QUALITY vector illustrations to put into LAYOUT APPLICATIONS that will OUTPUT correctly.
I reckon I’ll have a large
ipodboy – wtf are you talking about? Obviously my statement is correct if you think Freehand would be used for web designing.
You are a dipsh*t. I sincerely hope you don’t attempt to make a living using either Freehand or Illustator. If you do – well, just remember that the post office is always hiring. You’ll fit in well there.
You are right, masterbator.
Thank You Filk3 – Yes another voice of reason
Chris –
Web Designing now that is an oxymoron.
And yes I make a great living using Illustrator every day and probably a much better living than you asshole!
I made a poopy!
I create vector drawings, cartoons, comics, illustrations for publications and ad agencies. Have all the vector drawing programs, but I always come back to Illustrator.
I look forward to Flash working more closely with Illustrator.
I’m sure Illustrator CS3 will incorporate a good bit of Freehand’s unique features.
Freehand is definitely more inefficient during pre-flight than Illustrator. Postscript nightmare.
All right, allright . . . what’s the big frickin deal?
Learn to dance in Illustrator, and then we’ll talk. FreeHand is for unemployed loosers and morons. I chalenge anyone with a valid e-mail address to post and prove that they actually make real money with ShitHand.
Come on, chumpf*cks! Pony up or beat off.
I only work real professionals.
Finally the real people are chiming in – thanks Brenton and Vector
now now
Let’s play nice boys and girls. This has been the best forum in a while. I just sit back and enjoy. My friend and I used to debate this issue years ago but now we are past that. You like what you like. Tell us to pry your cold dead fingers from your favorite app.
MW serious
as in, man you guys are serious about your favorite app.
I made a poopy!
You can all suck my ass! Just like my mother.
And yes I make a great living using Illustrator every day and probably a much better living than you asshole!
Signed,
ipodBoy
All statements from an Illustrator user. I won’t be switching anytime soon.
Flik3,
Now if we can convince “designers” to stop submitting MS Word files for press work.
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ipodboy – sorry, even though you may be used to getting flamed I don’t need to immitate you to make a post (or a point). Whoever made the posts above that you THINK were from me – well, they weren’t from me.
Trust me, I have no problems pointing out what an idiot you are and signing my name to that effect.
Amen – justified
“Now if we can convince “designers” to stop submitting MS Word files for press work.”
Or Publisher. What the hell am I supposed to do with that? I have to forward it to our PC and convert to WMF. Yuck!
Damn Billy why did you bring that up? I was trying to forget about Publisher
rasterbator,
what do you mean by back down? I was just giving him (“whatever”) an honest answer after I understood what he originally said. However, since you just brought us all your divine knowledge about freehand – I might point out that there’s a menu called edit…look at the dropdown called “special” – aah…yes, paste in front and paste behind. Guess what – I placed these buggers on F9 and F10. Again, I rarely use them since layering is better when objects are overlapping – at least until flattening/final etc (unless it’s outlines). But as you can see – Freehand has more options than illustrator: Cloning, copy-paste, copy-paste in front, copy-paste behind and duplicate. Now, what would really interest me – do you really know Freehand? And if so – did you win or steal your license?
A Real Prepress Professional,
I don’t know what kind of RIP you are using, but I’ve seen more AI EPS files crash a RIP especially when folks are using those transparency features incorrectly than FH EPS files.
Anyone here working with Canvas? Is it any good? I just remember it as another vector contender. Does it work with 10.4.x at all? I just think it’s pretty shitty with only one vector app and no competition. 🙁
I used Canvas way back. It was using raster and vectors effect/editing abilities together before Illustrator/Photoshop/Freehand. That’s if I’m remembering correctly. I think it was pretty buggy though. Don’t know if it made it to OSX.
let’s have a poll about ipodBoy’s age. Only one digit answers allowed.
My geuss: 9
Screw it, CanI*, or whatever the hell your gay name is.
To rasterbator: I agree. I use DW also. But sometimes you never know with Adobe. I have a sinking feeling that apps will be combined into bloatware. I’ve read rumors about Flash being integrated in to Acrobat (or vice versa). That may not be a bad thing but it could be quite complicated. Especially if they integrate Adobe 3D as well. Just a thought and thanks for your reply.
BillyBob, your as dumb as your namesake. What the hell’s a geuss, dorkhead?
Speaking of Publisher… I’ve had very good luck saving out Publisher files to postscript and then using Distiller to make PDF files. Of course, it has to be done on a PC (which makes feel so dirty!) but the PDFs work fine on a Mac.
ipodBoy,
I think it’s time for your nap.
There are functions in Freehand that are uniue to it that will be missed in Flash. Sad day indeed. I doubt Adobe will sell it, they made that mistake in the 90’s, they won’t make it again.
I know that these forums are not high art, but the language and freaky grammer (not to mention attitudes) make me want to go read a good book.
holy crap yes…somma you guys spell like average americans. now thats scary.
Canvas:
http://www.acdamerica.com/products-x/x/default.html
If you move an object in Illustrator -is it possible to see the distance (in pixels or whatever) it has been moved on the x and/or the y axis? Also, is it possible to add math into numerical value-fields? Say I want to move an object 30 pixels times 3.525 – is there a place where I could numerically say 30*3.525px ? Then, say I need to do this 35 times – is there a duplicate/numeric value for copies? Another thing pretty important – can Illustrator paste inside a clipping path? These things have been around in FH for eons so I’m just wondering if maybe illustrator have features like this as well. /TIA for any answers.
g.rilla/Billy Bob,
yes, Canvas is still around in OS X, even if Deneba got bought out.
http://www.acdamerica.com/
Wow! An illustration software app flame war! Good times. Sort of off topic but I miss MacPaint.
I’m sure Illustrator CS3 will incorporate a good bit of Freehand’s unique features.
Ha! You wish. You might want to consider the depth and complexity of AI’s code base. The AI team is scared shitless of integrating multiple pages. I think a new Spiral Shape Tool is much more likely.
okay, it exist but what’s the strengths of Canvas, if any? Anyone here with Canvas skills? Please, don’t answer with the “if you use Canvas you’re an idiot” kindof ipodBoy language. On the other hand It’s okay to answer even if you’re not a longtime ADC member.
G2: the align functions in illustrator (as for all Adobe apps) are just as close to stupid as it gets. It’s still not possible to lock one object, select it – then us it as a (locked) reference object
If you mean you want to align one or more objects with a single reference object, without having the reference object move, YES, in fact you can do this in AI. You select all the objects you want to align (including the reference object), and then click on the reference object again to establish it as the reference object. Then hit the appropriate align button. Not exactly intuitive, but it works.
FH might not be a bad app if the interface wasn’t so ugly. I have both FH and AI, but I just can’t tolerate FH’s junky UI.
I’m a long time Freehand user. I switched to Illustrator a few months back because I was afraid this announcement was coming. I have to say that after the initial learning curve I like Illustrator better. And it was a steep learning curve. Illustrator is far more complicated to use. There generally are more steps to achieve an end result. Some of you mentioned text on a path or on a circle etc, but also paste into a shape is far easier than the masking in Illustrator. And it retains all of the characteristics of the shape; color fill stroke etc. Illustrator makes this too difficult. There are many more examples of how Freehand is easier to use.
That being said, I have noticed that Illustrator is far more color accurate than Freehand, postscript errors are less on output and it handles imported PDF’s better (though still not great). And I’ve also switched to InDesign CS2 and away from Quark. The integration of PS and Illustrator with InDesign is outstanding. It is a pleasure to use them all together.
I’m going to miss Freehand like an old friend moving away.
g.rilla: I haven’t used it in a long time but you can download a free trial here:
http://www.acdamerica.com/products-x/
Choices are always good.
Despite the ‘hiss and spit’ going on I’ll miss Freehand, used it since the Aldus days and hand in hand with Photoshop CS. Multiple pages are important to me …….. but I’m not moving off the G5 so I guess it’s got a few more years use yet
People, come on!
What about choiche? Yes, personally I like FH better than AI, I admit. But who cares? You may or not. And face it, FH makes some things better, AI is better for other things. I like FH, but for some things I rather use AI. So, OK, we all have our favourites (where we know how to work around the kinks and so on) and “the other one”. But apart from these two, what else can we use? When was one ever better than two choiches? No, I want both to survive. I have suspected this unforunante move since the buy-up. And here (I hope not) it comes.
So, if Adobe is so very sure that AI is so much better, what would be a more appropriate way to show the world than to let the FH code base (all of it) go open source? Let the users decide. Yeah, I know, they would never, ever dare.
I just hope that both of the most prominent (and at the top, the only ones) illustration apps will survive. I really do.
Sorry for the language, I am far from native english….. http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/smileys/# OK?
And P.S. Canvas as well as Corel Draw, good as they are do not even try to play in the same leauge. I (sorry to say) do not know about Xara…
D.Thunder – THANKYOU !!!!!!!!!
unfortunately, this doesn’t work with bezier points. :/
In freehand you can really align anything to anything. Quite addictive.
Freehand vs. Illustrator Flame Wars!!!
I dig it.
Flashback to 1991 – Me learning my first three Mac programs on a Mac Classic:
Pagemaker, Freehand, Illustrator.
Still using Illustrator only.
MW=response \ The response from Cats: “Welcome gentlemen, All your vectors are belong to us!”
Wow, this is like a Windows vs. Mac debate.
Amazing the amount of anger and hate spewed forth on this board about a gahdamn illsutration app.
Illustrator sucks
No, it’s more like a Liberal vs. NeoCon debate.
Well I do use both applications, as both do have some unique features that can be used efficiently.
Although – the alignment does work much easier in Freehand. lock one item, align the other to it. Job done. That drives me nuts in Illustrator.
The other thing – When I paste one item into another item, or mask it off, I am quite happy just to select the elements that are visible on screen. Illustrator still always pops up with millions of light blue lines, even though they are masked.
Then again – Illustrator has the far better selection options (select similar fill colour anyone?), not speaking about the spastic pointers though. And all the twirl and distortion filters rock! And the Gradient mesh is top as well.
One thing I really miss though are the old KPT Vector Effects. Even though both applications feature a lot of those functions, many were unique to KPT – like the 3D effect with no perspective on short length, with proper shadows. Neither Illlustrator nor Freehand can do that properly.
So if they can’t co-exist – combine the best parts of both programmes, and improve on that with something completely new, that users of both old apps see familiarity in and know instantly how to use!
I been using Illustrator since Illustrator 88. ipodboy anda real design professional probably were not even born yet. I have been using Freehand almost as long, but the last version I used was Freehand 8. And yes, erich the smartass, I have always owned legal copies of both products.
I also once used a scanning app that was the precursor to PhotoShop. Yes, there was such an app, and it came with a Barney scanner. The Knolls worked on the app, which gave a few options for color correction on the fly. But slow as hell.
I have tried Canvas (back when it was around version 2) but found it complicated.
I also have tried apps like SuperPaint and Ray Dream Designer (also legal copies of old sh*t).
Ampar – I have a copy of the Oreilly ASsociates first edition of the Mosaic handbook that came with a floppy of the original browser, Mosaic.
It sounds like you newbies have no idea of what some of us veterans went through back in the day.
I have to say Ipodboy is about the most ignorant fuck on the planet. I am part of a 500million dollar a year film/publishing firm and we use Freehand almost exclusively. Those using AI are usually completely stunned with what even newby Freehand users are doing because it is easier to learn, makes more sense, and is easier to get at the power.
I can name dozens of people who came to our company touting the benefits of AI only to give it up (except for some very specific tools) within a year.
If Adobe drops Freehand without taking the great stuff out of it and adding it to Adobe they will take the place of ipod boy as the stupidest fuck on the planet.
Illustrator is crap, Freehand is crap, OfficeMac is crap, Indesign is crap
You don’t know squat until you’ve used Ready, Set, Go!
How many fucktwads around here remember that program?
That was the program of programs, it could do it all and it was fast!
It could suck the creative ideas right outta your head!
Jerry T, I did go through the same shit and completely understand and agree. I’m still amazed about the amounts of steps one have to walk through to perform certain tasks in illustrator. I sure wish they could embed some of freehands ideas, doubt it seriously though. If one takes a look at adobes apps and their individual evolutions as of the last coupla years, the word impressive doesn’t really come to my mind. Remember when acrobat was a slick and efficient pdf creator? Look at it now…it’s almost like they’re trying to become the next M$ word. Actually, If one wants to get some fresh takes on editing, one just have to look at 3D apps like Modo or C4D. They have some of the most awesome modeling ideas around…fresh ideas that is. Can you say this about freehand or illustrator? No. Apple’s FCP, Aperture and Motion also have some very nice and interesting takes on oldschool editing problems, no matter if it’s axis- or timeline-oriented tasks. All in all, the loss of Freehand is a LARGE loss for vector junkies. And with only one major player left I don’t see things getting any better. Apple could pull it of I guess – but due to politics etc. they wouldn’t do it. At least not in the near future. And finally to all freehand bashers – most of you sound like you’ve launched the app at some point, fiddled around, whined about one feature you couldn’t find right away and then “that’s it” / “this sucks”. I’m all for evolution, but killing an app altogether is just very hardcore. Especially when it’s an app like freehand or, in case some of you remember, Live Picture. Anyone remember the speed of Live Picture with huge images? LP could handle filters like adjustment layers – something photoshop still can’t do. Ah nostalgia. It’s days like these that make me wonder in what direction the software industry is heading. Large Suites from a few huge houses I guess. Exchanging data will no doubt be easier – but the quality of the individual modules/apps will not get that much better.
mikael and rasterbator (is that a family name?) you sound like youre moving around with soft. remember the killing of Commotion ? I really wonder what people like John Knoll or Kai Krause (remember his meta OS ideas?) is thinking about soft development of today. These people had an enormous impact on things we take for granted today. BTW, what happened with livepicture??? How come no one picked up that code or something? I can only twice the previous comments regarding the killing of superiour softwares. If they at least could make it open source. Also anyone remember Xres from macromedia? the soft heavily sucked but it had potential dealing with large images like LivePicture. What happened? The soft got axed. Oh and yes Freehand has an ugly GUI but awesome editing nevertheless…something i couldnt say about illustrator.
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Adobe should be forced to sell Freehand to a competitor for the second time.
_ PS – I used Harvard Graphics on a 386 DOS PC years before Windows existed. It was pretty fun if convoluted to set type. I switched to Mac for good 3 years later.
nice debate. some twats as usual but some true operators as well. can’t remember a thread like this for some time. i want a white kitten tho…and we need a small bridge…
enamic5,
“…Then again – Illustrator has the far better selection options (select similar fill colour anyone?)…”
in freehand just hit cmnd-F to access the “find & replace” and/or “select” palette. Take a close look what you can do with it. You can either just find/select attributes (btw, more attributes than in ai) or you could actually directly replace the same things (one-click-style). All this based on either selection, page or document. You still think ai’s approach is far better…or faster?
one thing that is truly cool in ai tho – its ability to save a selection. Now that’s awesome.
Apex:
I was at San Jose State to see Kai Kruase introduce Live Picture. It was awesome! THe problem? $3500 for early adopters!
Live Picture was sold and became its own company, headed by former Apple Exec John Scully. That pretty much did it in!
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You may remember Color It! was given away with Kai’s Power Tools, and it showed some promise. But Live Picture was the bomb. The demo showed two 1 GB images composited with effects, and then rendered on the backend.
Kai’s company name changed more times than a Victoria Secret model at a runway show.
I don’t remember XRes, but I do remember checking out Quark at a MacWorld sahow, where they were showing off an image manipulation program that they purchased from JVC that used what they called “lenses” instead of “layers”.
Good times. Good times.
enamic5 said “When I paste one item into another item, or mask it off, I am quite happy just to select the elements that are visible on screen. Illustrator still always pops up with millions of light blue lines, even though they are masked.”
YESSSSSSS!!!! If I didn’t shave my head I’d have pulled all my hair out over this! Drives me insane!
Ted, Adobe Frustrator! That’s an instant classic!
Ampar, I don’t miss MacPaint nearly as much as PixelPaint. There are some things you could do with PP that you still can’t easily do in Photoshop.
As for those saying that FH doesn’t do prepress well, I’d argue that it largely depends on the designer and the prepress house’s abilities. I’ve worked with prepress houses that had no idea how to get FH files through easily and others who never had any trouble at all.
The comment someone made about how no important work is done with FH is about as moronic a comment as one could make. It only shows your own ignorance on the subject.
enamic5 said: “one thing that is truly cool in ai tho – its ability to save a selection. Now that’s awesome.”
Actually FH will export selection(s) in several format choices including Freehand. Go to EXPORT instead of SAVE.
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This FH/AI topic has been one of the most interesting debates on MDN in a long time! Awesome to see fellow Freehanders come out on this one.
I hope to hell, Adobe sells FH off to another developer.
User since FH2 and AI88.
Still have the floppies.
Why not use both?
I like choice.
Illustrator was my favorite plugin for FreeHand.
Workflow consists of how many buttons it takes to finish a simple task.
In that regard FH kicks butt.
But Macromedia dropped the FH ball a long time ago and MX does not compare to AICS2.
Does anyone remember FH10 was one of the first major apps to be ported to OSX? Loved it!
Too bad it sucked…
The main reason I switched to AI full time was customer support. I was tired of being insulted as a long time user with legitimate complaints.
FH is now my favorite plugin for AI.
An ultimate modern vector app is long overdue.
I hope Adobe is up to the task.
A very sad day. Freehand is such an intuitive programme (using it is like working in the ‘real’ world). Illustrator isn’t – it’s awkward and unintuitive.
Apple should buy Freehand – or release a vector drawing Application done right!
maeric,
I wasn’t referring to “save selection/document as…” – I know it’s possible to save the “selected objects” only. I was referring to selections within the document. In ai it’s possible to make a selection of, say, 12 different shapes, save his selection (including a name) within the document, deselect the selection and then load it again later. Basically it’s just like saving selections in PS. FH can’t do this, unfortunately.
The bottom line is there is not a big enough market to support multiples of this type vector software.
At one time or another I have bought every vector illustrating program trying to find a better one – even downloaded the free Microsoft [removed]or whatever they call it now).
The only one that is still used daily on my computer is Illustrator.
For once I picked the one that survived!
Twenty Benson – “(using it is like working in the ‘real’ world). Illustrator isn’t – it’s awkward and unintuitive.”
Don´t know what you use Freehand or Illustrator for, but as a fulltime freelancing Illustrator and animator I use Adobe Illustrator every day and find it very easy to use. (Yes, I own Freehand, too, but prefer Adobe Illustrator.)
All I do is vector illustration work, I don´t use it for graphic design work; posters, flyers, etc.
Both programs are a bit different but once one gets use to either, I can work in both. I just prefer Illustrator – I get things done faster.
Thanks for the memories, ndelc and rasterbator!
I have AI 88 and an early version of QXP on an SE with 4 mb of RAM and a 20 mb HD. Good times.
See ya! I’ve used both and illustrator is def the superior app. It ain’t perfect tho. Reckon it could do with multipage support. Hopefully they’ll grab the good stuff from freehand and make it even better.
Adobe must sell FreeHand.
Rasterbator – I love how you come to the defense of Freehand as the app of choice yet later you say the last version of Freehand you used was Version 8 that was 3 versions ago. Wow that makes you the best authority and I will be sure to listen to everything you say!