Mark Rogers, Apple Computer’s UK managing director, “has good reason to be ebullient,” Graham Stewart reports for The Scotsman. “Apple has recently displaced the PC manufacturer Dell to take the No1 spot in western Europe, with a market share of 15.2%… ‘We’re very pleased with the progress we’re making in education,’ says Rogers. ‘It’s only in the last few years that we have emerged in Europe, and we’re seeing a similar increase in our share in the UK [which stands at 12.5%].’ Rogers says the iPod ‘halo effect’ is partly responsible for this upturn. ‘We’re seeing the iPod being used to deliver lectures to students and it’s also being used in podcasting.'”
“Apple’s success in education is particularly strong in Scotland, claims the dominant Apple dealer here, Scotsys, which recently merged with the Edinburgh-based IT company, the Adventi Group. ‘The uptake in further and higher education for courses based on Apple technologies has been increasing over the last few years,’ says Scotsys managing director John McAleenan… McAleenan says confidence in Apple is at an all-time high, but is nonetheless frustrated by the attitude of corporate IT departments. ‘There is a complete distrust of the Apple platform by IT professionals. I’m fed up with people saying they can’t have Apple in their networks. It’s not difficult, it’s just that they don’t want to understand the technology or they can’t be bothered,’ he says,” Stewart reports.
“Apple is clearly hoping that its recent decision to use Intel processors in its computers, in preference to IBM chips which are now targeted more towards games consoles such as the Xbox, will boost its fortunes in the corporate IT market, but it is likely to be a tough battle given Microsoft’s overwhelming dominance and the mistrust of Apple technology in this environment,” Stewart reports. “Apple is clearly hoping that its recent decision to use Intel processors in its computers, in preference to IBM chips which are now targeted more towards games consoles such as the Xbox, will boost its fortunes in the corporate IT market, but it is likely to be a tough battle given Microsoft’s overwhelming dominance and the mistrust of Apple technology in this environment. Apple’s decision to open its own worldwide network of retail stores is an attempt to change attitudes to its personal computers
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Corporate IT “pros” in general have hitched their wagons to Microsoft. Often in the name of vendor “choice,” they defend their decision, even though, in the end, it almost always results in ultimately depending on a sole vendor anyway: Microsoft. In our experience, IT “pros” will employ almost any convoluted logic to defend their choice, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they made the wrong one. The Mac is more dependable, more secure, last longer, and the end user enjoys using the Mac more than Windows, which means they’re most likely to produce more since they are not fighting the user interface and Windows issues; this makes Mac users more productive than Windows users overall.
IT people have been given the role of “decision makers” when they should not have that power. If CEOs and upper management in many industries want the upper hand over their competitors, they’d be smart to learn about technology, investigate the Mac’s advantages, take back the decision-making power, and make the best technology decisions for their companies. If that means they’ll have to reduce their IT departments because Macs are less prone to trouble, so be it. Obviously, IT “pros” will not decide to move to the Mac platform if it means their staffing levels and power within the organization will be diminished. The open-minded IT person, one who will seriously consider the Apple Mac option, is a rarity in the extreme. Apple will have an uphill battle breaking into corporate environments unless and until the decisions are made by people focused on benefits to the entire company, not by those who are choosing technology that helps bolster their own job security and power.
Find out more about what Apple Macintosh can do for your business:
• The Apple Store for Business
• http://www.apple.com/business/
• http://www.apple.com/itpro/
• http://www.apple.com/business/mac_pc/
Mac OS X Business Software
Accounting & Finance
– Accounting & Bookkeeping
– Payroll & Customizable Finance
General Productivity
– Calendar & Contact Management
– Cross-Platform Compatibility
– Communication Tools
– Office Productivity Tools
– Office Suites & Word Processing
– Project Management
– Spreadsheets & Databases
Marketing & Sales
– Design, Layout & Publishing
– CRM & Direct Mail
Data & Network Management
– Remote Access
– Server Management
– Storage & Backup
Online Business
– Online Collaboration
– Content Creation & Selling
– Web Development
At an Apple Retail Store near you, special presentations and demos for business professionals are held every Wednesday. More info about Business Day here.
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Related MacDailyNews articles:
Apple Mac is #1 in European education market, pushes Dell down into second place – February 03, 2006
Apple Mac hits #1 in Western Europe Education market – February 02, 2006
Defending Windows over Mac a sign of mental illness – December 20, 2003here.
The answer is simple
Western Europeans are smart, they know what’s best and have the best intentions for their children.
Here in America it’s all about greed, school officials getting kickbacks from salespeople from the likes of Dell and Gateway.
That’s right, salespeople get commissions, which they share with school IT officials who sign on the dotted line.
It’s common practice, and that’s why Apple’s school sales are down in the great USA.
Corruption kills.
Apple must build computers for Corporate IT. Corporate IT is not going to buy “All in Ones” and they are not going to buy laptops that don’t have port replicators.
I complitely agree with MDN take.
This might be possible if Apple actually had business applications that ran on OSX. Except for Office (which is missing Visio, Access and Project) nothing in the corporate world runs on a Mac. Who wants to run Safari which is incompatible with virtually every interactive site on the planet instead of IE?
And what few tools exist are usually years behind the Windows equivalent. From Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft to Stellent and Siebel any software out for OSX is old, broken, and has a completely different look and feel to the Windows version. No company is going to purchase overpriced computers with an unproven OS and no applications. Everyone in corporate IT departments are trained to work with Windows and fully understand how to set up network shares based on user logins (Something OSX falls flat on its face on).
Apple should stick to producing stereos and cheapo computers for schools and stop trying to break into the real world of business computing. They don’t have hardware, software, consultants, applications or know how to keep businesses running.
MDN’s take is right on the money. We see this kind of thinking from these “IT pros” and worse, getting really snotty at times.
However there are a few that will come around when we show them what a Mac can do and how easy it is to integrate into their existing networks.
Schools are pretty much the same, but the school systems buy a lot of Dells because they are dirt cheap.
One school superintendent likes the software that is bundled with the Macs, but is waiting for Apple to make some computers that are as cheap as their Dell boxes.
A lot os schools buy entry level iMacs (sans the optical drive).
can u feel the water slipping through cracks in the damn?
dam?
(a little hungover today)
Knowledge is power, and most IT pros enjoy their monopoly on IT knowledge in their corporation. Introduce a technology they know little about and they feel threatened, and will attack it rather than risk admitting their lack of knowledge.
Exactly, exactly, exactly!
You cannot believe the crap I hear from IT types. Every kind of excuse, new and very old.
I just send them a polite e-mail with the info disputing their ideals.
What is really funny is in the big companies, they have a marketing department of 10-30 Macs that they ignore. Strange, this group runs fine with no help from IT.
That is what really drives the point home.
Later
“orporate IT is not going to buy “All in Ones” and they are not going to buy laptops that don’t have port replicators.”
What’s so important about the port replicator?
Mac Realist, I think you’re living in a surreal universe.
Apple isn’t trying to break into corporate IT; it has said on numerous occasions it’s not interested in that market (yet). Such moves are all in the imaginations of the pundits.
Adobe and Macromedia are in the creative industries where Apple still has a strong presence, and the Mac and Windows versions are normally released simultaneously (Lightroom is even out for Mac first). And since when is a different look and feel to the Windows version a bad thing??
Anyhoo, with the business market maturing the real money to be made is in the consumer space, and Apple has the best-in-class products it needs to grow market share in that sphere.
Oh, one last thing: In what respect does the network-centric OS X fall flat on its face…?
Ok lets talk corporate and why they don’t switch to Mac, except in certain situations/graphics etc.
1: Hardware flexibility, there is none with Apple since the OS is tied to hardware.
Buisnesses like to choose similar platform hardware vendors because they know some come and go, at least they don’t have to throw away all their investment in software if Gateway kicks the bucket.
2: If Apple sells Mac OS X seperatly, their hardware sales will suffer because they make more profit selling hardware that can’t be copied vs a OS that can.
3: Microsoft, this beast has grown so big it’s not going anywhere. They have provided a OS (although not as good) that caters to everyone. Apple doesn’t do that.
Competition with M$ will result in both OS’s given away for free, resulting in no income for Apple.
4: Apple history, Bill Gates is still in charge of M$, Steve Jobs (and many other CEO’s) have come and gone at Apple and this resulted in instability of the company. Corporations don’t like that. It costs them money to retrain and lost productivity from too much change.
Mac’s are good in locations where change is occuring and the people can adopt because it makes them better at what they do.
Mac’s make good personal, educational computers, also they make good computers where reliability of the OS is very important, like deadline operations at newspapers.
5: Volume: Apple can’t provide the world’s computers, nobody really can. Only lately with the Intel proccesors does Apple have a chance to increase market share because they are not hindered by their suppliers.
6: Developers: most developers don’t bother with the Mac platform becuase the developement cost for profit ratio is too high. Now that Apple is on Intel processors, perhaps they will make it very very easy to take a Windows code and compile it for Mac OS X with little trouble or cost to developers.
Then we can start seeing Mac OS X and Windows versions on the same software disks again.
This would be a significant marketing boost for Apple.
Oh I forget, get your Mactel Mini dissassembly manual here
(and fast)
homepage.mac.com/hogfish/
MacRealist
“This might be possible if Apple actually had business applications that ran on OSX. Except for Office (which is missing Visio, Access and Project) nothing in the corporate world runs on a Mac. Who wants to run Safari which is incompatible with virtually every interactive site on the planet instead of IE?”
Corporate IT does not use Access. Everything database related is done via an ODBC connection to either SQL or Oracle. Merlin is a good Project alternative, and OmniGraffle does the work of Visio. As for Safari, the best browser for corporate Macs is Firefox due to it’s NTLM authentication and better compatibility.
“And what few tools exist are usually years behind the Windows equivalent. From Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft to Stellent and Siebel any software out for OSX is old, broken, and has a completely different look and feel to the Windows version. No company is going to purchase overpriced computers with an unproven OS and no applications. Everyone in corporate IT departments are trained to work with Windows and fully understand how to set up network shares based on user logins (Something OSX falls flat on its face on).”
Everyone? Even the Cisco or UNIX team? I’ve said this before on this site. Don’t confuse the desktop support drones with the IT Dept. They are the bottom of the food chain in most companies when it comes to decision making.
“Apple should stick to producing stereos and cheapo computers for schools and stop trying to break into the real world of business computing. They don’t have hardware, software, consultants, applications or know how to keep businesses running.”
Real IT World? Haven’t I heard that somewhere before? ©
MacDude is way off. There’s one reason and only one reason IT “professionals” keep buying PCs with Windoze… IT KEEPS THEM IN A JOB. If Bob in accounting keeps getting crashes, if there’s always a threat of some virus, etc., THEY HAVE A JOB.
I was at a school board meeting the other night. All the members use a laptops which tap into an “agenda” program which gives the members all relevant supporting documentation as votes are being cast. NOT ONE worked right and two members couldn’t even discuss points they wanted to because they couldn’t get the computers to work right. The IT guy came in all smug, going computer to computer, showing he’s worth his taxpayer’s funded salary. They all laughed over it, I found it appauling.
To top it off, they play these Student of the MOnth videos using a Windoze laptop that is projected on a screen. Two tries and finally the first video played. It got the end and had some sort of errors pop up left and right. The second video never did play. Yeah,.. IT Departments are just a real brain trust… They waste so much productivity in our economy it’s sickening.
There’s a problem not being recognized when discussions are raised about about corporate computer usage.
The IT pro’s job in most cases is to dumb-down their computers so that workers are given no choice but to work at their specific tasks.
It is a matter of relegating workers, to use their time at work in job performance tasks only. The last thing corporations want to do is to encourage their workers to become diversified in computer usage skills. Corporations don’t see their role as being one to enhance their workers’ chances to attend to personal matters while at work, for example. No personal bill paying from the workplace. There are exceptions, of course, but what the Mac has always offered in terms of extrawork opportunities scares the living crap out of IT people, causing them to behave as perversely as they seem to be.
The Macintosh is a liberal machine. Corporate interests are drastically more conservative.
Only when corporate IT people can dumb-down Macs conveniently will they accept Apple products. Again, there are corporate exceptions.
First of all, the article states that Apple hopes to win over IT, but reasons this by arguing their switch to Intel. This is just flat out wishful thinking. Apple is not at all concerned with the IT space. All of their products and development are target at the home user and creative professional. They offer no office productivity software, no groupware messaging system, no computers targeted for the office space, no server strategy, and no strategy for conversion of business software to their platform. They have products that could fit into these areas, but as of yet, Apple has not attempted to do so. In fact, even their programming languages, like Cocoa or WebObjects, are not promoted.
The fact is, most companies will not switch to OS X because their propretary software doesn’t run on it and it is simply too cost prohibitive to port it or rewrite it. Perhaps switching to Intel will help, but as of yet, Apple hasn’t done anything that would lead me to believe they want this space. I conclude that Apple is focusing on their core competancies and leaving corporate IT alone.
iPod “triPod” featured in Scary Movie 4 trailer
see here
http://www.scarymovie.com/main/public/video/scarymovie4_trailer-480×272.mov
I love Macs but if I ran a big business I’d have to have Windoze PCs. Why? Because you can’t trust just one supplier!!!
Mac Realist, you are obviously a troll and have no clue whatsoever about what you are vomiting here. Go take a walk, moron.
IDon’t, How many suppliers provide Windows? With Macs in a buisness situation, you would find that they would have a much longer lifespan than PCs (4-6 years instead of 2-3).
It’s sad how this country dosn’t understand that when computers are involved in education, they should be computers people can actually get work done on- NOT go through a myriad of filters and restrictions, resulting in slow interntet connections and buggy programs.
The only Macs in the school are in the Art and Music departments; It gives people the false sense that that is the only thing Macs are good for. I found out that our school could’ve gotten eMacs for cheaper than the Dells we got- and probably would get alot more done, too.
However, Isn’t the Mac supposed to be “The Computer for the Rest of Us”? That was it’s original motive.
It makes so much sense that Apple is not in the business of ‘converting’ the corporate IT culture, at least for the foreseable future. Just look at the numbers involved if suddenly there was a “Mac Revolution’, Apple couldn’t hope to get the manufacturing ramped in time and that’s only the tip of a huge iceberg.
Look at the iPod situation last year, just for a single product line Apple had to spend a lot of cash upfront just to secure the flash memory and not have a gaping hole in the sales.
I still believe that there are plenty of small companies, who cannot afford an IT dept., they are fed up with firefighting their Windows machines, they don’t have any super bespoke software and would look at Apple as a very viable alternative. I am thinking of architects, doctors, dentists etc.
I don’t even want to see Apple beat MS.
However, I do see a point could come where the market share takes on such a value that Apple could license the OS to other selected manufacturers. But by then Apple would have such a diverse revenue stream that losing some hardware sales in exchange for greater market presence would make more financial sense.
the true fact is its fusion of these factors and then some more
+1 apple is in a higher price
+2 windows 2000 is realy an enterprise os very stable and very easy to use
+3 in a big corporation nothing is allowed tomake error of any kind like in theat school meeting
+4 loads and loads of pirated windows software are there for the young to learn and try making them future windows it guys
+6 yes using network shares in windows is reliable and easy..also user management
iDon’t wrote: “I love Macs but if I ran a big business I’d have to have Windoze PCs. Why? Because you can’t trust just one supplier!!!”
Computers are just an assembly of hardware parts. To make them useful, you need software. What software OS does a Windows PC use? Microsoft Windows. Where does Microsoft Windows OS come from?
One supplier: Microsoft.
Here in Norway the government just bought 30.000 Solid Works licenses for educational use. Solid Works does not exist for mac, so there wont be any macs soon in our schools… Too bad.
Having worked in the corporate world, I can affirm that the second paragraph in MDN’s take is spot on. Too many IT groups are staffed by arrogant, ignorant shitheads. It’s a rare breath of fresh air when you meet someone who is reasonable and nor an anti-Mac bigot.
I can’t speak for all businesses, but my organisation relies on MS Enterprise Project, MS Sharepoint Server, Panagon (a corporate document access system) and a Peoplesoft application. There are *no* Apple equivalents to these. Apple’s got a long way to go before it can conquer more than the SOHO or creative studio markets.
“Apple history, Bill Gates is still in charge of M$, Steve Jobs (and many other CEO’s) have come and gone at Apple and this resulted in instability of the company. Corporations don’t like that. It costs them money to retrain and lost productivity from too much change.”
What the hell is this? You completely lost ANY credibility with this statement. It’s been almsot 10 years since Steve came back to Apple, and Bill doesn’t even run the day to day operations at MS anymore. Regardless of these facts, there isn’t this wild instability at Apple you are accusing them of having. If anything talk to any person who works in R&D at MS and ask them how many time in teh last 4 years Microsoft has changed direction on teh development of VISTA or wahtever they are calling it this week.
My adviceto you, stop smoking weed.
MDN Writes: “Apple will have an uphill battle breaking into corporate environments unless and until the decisions are made by people focused on benefits to the entire company, not by those who are choosing technology that helps bolster their own job security and power.”
W. Edwards Deming talked extensively about this (in terms of delivering quality). In essence, he said most decisions in most companies are made not in the best interests of the company as a whole, but rather in what is good to preserve one’s own ass (my choice of words, not Deming’s). Deming talked about how to promote what is the good for the company.
You people have absolutely no clue to the realities of enterprise IT. Apple doesn’t even come close to having an answer for Active Directory or Exchange Server; the foundation of an identity and messaging architecture that REAL WORLD scales into the millions of user objects and mailboxes. I’ve never seen or heard of an OS X mail server (even in theory) that’s hosting 7,000+ mailboxes. Happens every day with Exchange Server. Lastly, Apple doesn’t even HAVE a roadmap for hardware, while Dell & HP(for instance) commits to a support roadmap, showing the business exactly WHERE you are buying into on the hardware lifecycle and never being surprised by a sudden new model or architecture change just after a large purchase. Stick to iTunes & iPod, there’s no room for a Mac in the server room. I appreciate & enjoy my three Macs as consumer devices, period.
I’d love to hear from the person that’s running 20,000 mailboxes and a 100,000+ object directory on OS X Tiger. Anyone? Didn’t think so.
devnull, you don’t know what you are talkiong about. You really want me to believe you need Windows to run 20,000 mailboxes?
Sendmail anbd any *nix os will run circles around this, get a life…
ppc, thanks for the laugh.
Sendmail is identical to Exchange: minus MAPI, minus HTTP web mail, minus calendaring, minus tasks, minus public folders, minus presence indicators, minus conferencing support, minus direct push to mobile devices.
Get the picture yet? Sendmail is little more than a transport. It is laughable in your attempts to compare Exchange and Sendmail; Apples and Oranges.
Thanks for trying and by the way, Apple (the topic of the article) uses Postfix in OS X Tiger, not Sendmail. But you knew that, right?
Pffft.
Art Pease,
yeah, I’ve been waiting, in vain, for Apple to produce a ‘standard’ (for want of a better word) computer – small (but not ‘mini’) large enough (but not maxi, i.e. not so large as a Power Mac or a PC)
Well designed, full of Apple’s excellent software and with a couple of empty slots.
Price: between $800 and $1200, depending on the configuration.
A sort of topless iMac, but much more flexible.
I have the feeling that in trying to be ‘different’ all the time, Apple are avoiding the obvious and missing out on a huge market.
My 2c .
Aple will never crack the IT Enterprise market until it decides to support Windows on its hardware. Large software vendors that focus only on Windows are NOT going to write those apps for OSX and CIOs are NOT going to approve rewriting of customized internal apps on Windows to run on OSX.
These are the real hurdles that Apple faces however I do believe that they have a shot to be the hardware/os of choice for small to new mid size biz.
Charko, my feeling is your wish may come true. I have a G5 tower and I realized that it is so large because one form factor has to accomodate the hottest G5 quadcore+liquid cooler and that is a big item. Plus all the fans to cool the darn thing.
So I think that the Intel chips will run cooler, need less space to handle that cooling. Next gen PM will be a lot smaller that my PM G5 and maybe even Apple will design 2 sizes one for yoohoo etc and the other for me (more your power user, Motion/FCP/AE )
devnull
With regards an Exchange equivalent on OSX, <a ref=”http://www.hula-project.org/Hula_Project”>you’re a bit behind the times there</a>
Personally I wouldn’t put Macs in the server room. Commodity HP hardware running Linux will do the job just fine. HP, unlike Dell, have excellent support for enterprise hardware.
However, on the desktop, I think enterprises have the wrong strategy. They settle on the one platform which just happens to have the most exploitable vulnerabilities, and put 100% of their users on it. I’ve worked in companies when Windows worms break out. They spread incredibly quickly, even with me applying access-lists all over the routers to block the packets getting between subnets. Companies should have more than one OS on the desktop to cover themselves, and as Desktop Linux still isn’t quite there, a Windows and Mac mix is the way forward IMO.
Oops
Hula Project
PROOF!!
The iPod HiFi is waaay overpriced
http://www.xtrememac.com/audio/speakers/tango.php
devnull, just because OS X currently doesn’t have that functionality doesn’t mean Apple can’t choose to implement it at some future date. I mean, just look at what Apple has achieved in every market it’s *chosen* to enter.
Thanks Dave H, what a laugh. To support your equivalence theory, tell me which of the Fortune 500 are using “The Hula Project” as their messaging solution?
Sounds great though, you can download it from “Dave Miller’s site” and they’re even planning to support Outlook! Exchange equivalent? LOL.
At any rate, the topic I believe was APPLE’S solutions in the enterprise space, no?
MacDude, that thing you linked to isn’t even a shipping product. It’s just a concept and a teaser at this stage.
MacDude, that thing you linked to isn’t even a shipping product. It’s just a concept and a teaser at this stage.
Not a concept, it ships in Spring.
Apple announces a lot of things and ships them months later. MacBook Pro’s for instance.
So your not fooling anyone with that argument.
If I was in the market for a device like this I would wait a bit to save a whopping $150.
But I’m a audiophile and already have a nice 800 watt 5.1 surround sound system that makes both of these devices look like the cheap crap they are.
At least if your in the market for crap, no use paying too much for it.
Apple: For $349, iPod Hi-Fi delivers crystal-clear, audiophile-quality sound in a clean, compact design. Hear, hear.
MacDude: Blow me. Hear, hear.
the IT wars are old and stupid
everyone knows you cant talk sense to an idiot
and
ive never met an IT person with a lick of sense
people talk of mac zealots
i guess they never met an IT guy
but hey
whatever
im happy with my mac and i will be happy with my next one
no matter what the IT guy says
For the past 15 years I’ve worked for in-house design studios for various top UK companies and the idea that these so-called Windows experts know what they’re doing is laughable.
Last year, on a training course, we had a room of 20 Windows XP PC’s, to demonstrate how our new intranet would work. Our IT department stated that it wouldn’t work on the Mac so myself and 4-5 other Mac users had to suffer and think down to the level of Windows.
Anyway after about half an hour a few PC’s stopped working. I mean completely locking up, wouldn’t print, couldn’t see the network – various errors. We called the IT guy over and after about 5 minutes restarting, checking various settings we were just told to use another PC.
At the end of the course (about 3 hours) we must have changed seats 2-3 times. Pathetic. Out of a room of 20 PC’s only a third actually worked. The IT guy (and his cohorts) were useless. These faulty PC’s were taken away for a complete reinstall. The rest of the training for the rest of the company was delayed for a few days whilst test were done. This sheds light as to why PC’s have such a huge market share, and shows the hidden costs that all businesses running on PC’s have to absorb because of the recommendations of so-called PC experts.
On returning to our studio (about 10+ Mac’s all working, from a brand new G5 tower down to a Blue & White G3 – oh yeah, with NO dedicated support from IT, internal or external), we tried the intranet in Safari & Firefox. It worked fine.
Here’s another story: About 6 years ago I attended an Adobe seminar in the UK (in Newark) when InDesign was first being released. First on stage was a guy on a Mac, demonstrating how InDesign worked. Not a hiccup.
The 2nd half of the demo was a guy demonstrating on a PC, showing some of the web applications Adobe had. After about a minute the PC locked up and would start. After trying various things they gave up. The Mac guy came back out and continued his demo, also showing how he used Applescript to enhance his workflow.
This was the funniest thing I’ve seen in ages. The point is the reason why we Mac people go on so much about the Mac, and seem a little ‘cultish’ at times is because Windows people just don’t understand how good they could all have it. We see the above on a daily basis – how much money is wasted, how much productivity is lost, whilst the Mac’s we use continue working regardless.
The reason they won’t let the Mac onto their networks is because they assume that the Mac is as complicated to administer as Windows, and at least they understand Windows (a little – I don’t think anybody truly understands it completely).
Lastly, I had an new IT Manager come to see the studio I run last year, to see what possible security risk we were. On seeing the studio, running Mac OSX, he said, “Oh yeah, Mac’s, what version of Windows do they run then?” And he wasn’t being funny either, he was that clueless. He then went to a Mac and asked us how do you get to a command-prompt. After about 5 minutes he left and he’s not been back to the department since.
Well he hasn’t, his staff have however, because when Windows decides that it not going to work, or when a virus strikes and the network is down and nobody can print or send email, people come to this department to use our printers and email. I long ago realised that I couldn’t rely on the Windows network for printing or email. I keep them separate from the Windows network because being in a deadline based department I cannot afford any downtime.
devnull
The point I was making is that there will be a working Open-Source alternative shortly. All Hula needs is one big vendor to get behind it and it’s going to take off. Novell have obviously spun it off because it conflicts with their commercial Groupwise product.
We’ll see when it gets to v1.0.
Forget usinf OSX, at this stage I’d settle for just being able to use another browser other thab IE. The number of websites [that I have to use because I have to deal with those companies] that don’t work is staggering.
There is one site I use where the main functionality is a login system and then a form with which to submit some very basic details and then the ability to print out copies of documents rather than keep hard copies of stationary. Simple huh? Nothing that shouldn’t work outside of IE? Forget it. For some reason once you log in they have decided to make every link work via javascript using onclick – but it’s ie only javascript. I’ve spoken to their IT departments and heads of other departments and they don’t care. I’ve pointed out that some of their site doesn’t even work properly in IE, told them how to easily fix it and they don’t care. I’ve told them that all their pages are full of bloated html and even demonstrated a way of cutting the size to a fifth of what it was (or more) and they don’t care. Amazingly they don’t even care about the cost savings – and this is just on a website – which doesn’t even require them to buy anything new.
It’s depressing at times.
MW {times}
As it seems to be on topic, I’ve written a Document Management System for the Mac (finished, just bug fixing) since it seems to be a huge hole in Apple’s strategy for the education and business markets. The screen shots are available at:
http://homepage.mac.com/holymackerel/DocHaven/DocHaven/Screenshots.html
I’d be interested if anyone has any criticisms, or comments about whether it has a real market – email me directly.
Fair enough Dave. You wouldn’t infer it from this thread, but I’m the “Mac guy” at work. My Powerbook goes with me everywhere. I’m just not convinced yet that OS X is a drop in replacement for a global AD or Exchange implementation. It frustrates me that it’s not. I agree w/ you about Linux; that will be the one to watch. Take care…
devnull
I don’t know if you’re going to read this, but I don’t think I’ve been clear on my own viewpoint. Personally, I don’t think OSX should be a direct replacement for everything Windows. Why replace one homogenous environment with another? IMHO it’s much better to have multiple OSes on your network, based on the tasks where they are best suited.
Exchange is a great product, but it limits your choices and locks you into Microsoft. You must run it on a Windows box, and to get anything other than basic usage you must use Outlook as your desktop client. This gives the worm writers a standard configuration to target. Hula is effectively Novell Netmail, but rather than only supporting SUSE, NetWare and Windows, Hula is available for a number of OSes and architectures. You can also pick your desktop mail client. All tied together this makes both Netmail and Hula a far more secure option.
I remember there was talk at the WWDC last year that Apple might include and support Hula in OSX Server. I hope that’s going to come to something, but until then, if anyone wants a shipping Exchange replacement that will meet the needs of 99% of companies, Netmail will do the buisness.
I’m glad to see you’re keeping the faith. I still occasionally get stick from a Windows support type about my PowerBook. That’s normally right up to the point where they see me using it to resolve Windows issues without interrupting my usual XWindows or ssh sessions. Then they get interested.
Anyway, must go get a sandwich. Cheers.
Hi Dave, I can see both sides of it. The geek side of me totally agrees with you on the security advantages of multiple platforms out in the field. The business, unfortunately, prefers a single platform to keep purchase, support costs, and end user training down. If Susie’s using Outlook, Sam’s using Thunderbird, Bob’s using Open Office, and Tina’s using Office 2003, we’d have to spend considerably more money to teach our end users how each program works, and the interoperability (or lack of it) between them. That’s where the “single platform” comes in to drive costs down. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just my experience… enjoy the sandwich.
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devnull, you don’t get it. Folks that don’t know how to config sendmail are quick to point the “shortcomings” of this mta. Yes, I know Tiger has Postfix instead, but my ponit is not the choice of the mta, but the fact that there are plenty of rock solid unix mtas that could do the job you describe with other unix tools to do what the mta on’t. The only solution for what you describe is not MS Exchange, that’s what I find laughable, that you belive such a thing.
The problem with the it world is not lack of such a solution but the fact that it is really dfficult to disregard legacy systems and the fact that nobody wants to loose their job using something cheaper and more secure…
Significant penetration in corporate IT market will be next to impossible for Apple. It will be hard enough for Microsoft just to get them to upgrade to Vista.
It’s very expensive to upgrade or replace thousands of desktops, and then you have all these custom VB apps that have been written for Windows.
The IT game is over…well that is unless some CEOs start buying stock in Apple, it might influence some decisions
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