“You succumb and buy your kids ‘Let it Go’ on iTunes to play over and over on your phone – but are you thinking about what happens when they get their own devices?” Lou Carlozo reports for Reuters. “Even though you bought and own it, you can’t pass it along, transfer or give it away because of the way digital purchases are structured.”
“As parents come to realize the limitations of their Apple ID… they are frustrated. All the apps, songs and movies they’ve purchased are quarantined in their own accounts. When the kids branch out to their own devices, they pretty much just have to start over, with limited workarounds,” Carlozo reports. “‘It’s extremely frustrating to casual users and advanced users alike,’ says Mike Wehner, a writer for The Unofficial Apple Weblog. ‘It’s an opaque system and, goes against Apple’s message – it’s not very intuitive. And there’s really no built-in solution, which is what everyone is looking for.'”
“Apple spokesman Ted Miller says that while you can have up to 10 devices on the same ID: ‘You can’t transfer between Apple IDs and you can’t merge Apple ID accounts.’ The issue is largely ‘a technical question,’ and policies regarding Apple IDs and transferring are laid out in the company’s terms of service. Experts have their own theories, though,” Carlozo reports. “”‘It’s partly a technological issue but more significantly a licensing situation,’ says Eric Slivka, editor in chief of MacRumors.com. “On the topic of simply merging two Apple IDs, Apple CEO Tim Cook and his representatives were telling customers two and a half years ago that Apple was working on a solution. But so far – nothing.’ As for how Google handles things, it’s pretty much the same… ‘They don’t own the content they’re selling, they’re simply acting as the middle man,’ TUAW’s Wehner says.
Carlozo reports, “One way around this dilemma is to separate the IDs of family members as early as possible and to share anything desired through iTunes.”
Read more in the full article here.
Our family of 4 has had 4 independent Apple ID’s since the time when Apple allowed you to have an iTunes account without a credit card attached to it. Since each account can be linked to up to 5 computers and an unlimited number of iPods, we have been able to easily share any content acquired by any of us. Now my kids are young adults and are sharing their purchases with the whole crew.
Great foresight Dusty!
I set-up my Apple ID the year I got married. Thankfully this isn’t an issue for me and won’t be for another decade til my kids get older.
We had this same issue with my grandson. I screamed bloody murder about it for years, until (unfortunately) I was proven right. For years, he and his older sister shared an ID. Birthday and Christmas gifts were pooled into the same ID. Now big sister is getting ready to head off to college with HER ID and years of HIS purchases. Finally, his parents got the point set him up with his own ID. I gave him a generous gift card to try and replace his lost stuff. I suspect that this is a widespread problem and it would be great if Apple would address it, but I don’t see an easy solution due to the rabid nature of the RIAA.
RIAA isn’t in question here. Even if you, the same person with the same name, address, social, phone number and all the things that make you digitally you, have 2 different accounts you’re screwed. Let’s say one you set up an account for iTunes before iCloud and then during the marketing and misunderstandings of how their products work by the local Apple store attendant you set up another iCloud account which then started racking up purchases on before you realized that all your older apps and song purchases were in another account. There is nothing Apple can/will do to merge all that data and history into one account. You now have a choice of using your original account and not having access to all your newer iCloud account purchases or vise versa. Apple honestly doesn’t have any motivation to really fixing this because it doesn’t affect their bottom line and is actually good for money. Forcing people to buy content twice means more revenue and customers aren’t making enough of an uproar about it publicly to make it PR nightmare worthy… Needless to say that although Cook said they were working on this 2 years ago, I’m sure buy now this initiative has been disbanded and they aren’t actually working on it anymore. People forgot, so they forgot.
To imply that the reason behind not allowing merging of account is the possible loss of revenue from re-purchasing content is rather misguided. The amount of revenue that Apple is receiving from such cases (a user with two Apple IDs and purchases on both of them, who wants to consolidate, but cant, so he buys duplicates of same content) is so negligible that it doesn’t register on anyone’s radar, certainly not Apple’s. This is the same as claiming that Apple’s main reason for making the iPhone battery inaccessible to consumers is all the extra revenue from battery replacement service (number of those is just as negligible).
I believe the only reason Apple isn’t really making an effort to do anything about this is the effort to actually develop a way to consolidate / merge two iTunes accounts (or to delegate / transfer purchases between accounts) is because the number of people who would need such a service is rather negligible and would make such development work not worthwhile.
so, what it sounds like is that people are trying to make Apple ID a family account, when it’s not, and has never been marketed or positioned by Apple as a family account, and then getting upset that it’s not.
You don’t know the history. Originally, each account had to have a credit card in their name. This went on for several years. People were not trying to make it a “family account”. Apple set it up that way. At the beginning of iTunes, there was no way that or an child or early teen (in moderate income family) could have their own account because of the credit card requirement.
When my youngestdaughter went of to college in the USA (We lived in Japan at the time), I was able to move her tunes over to her own account. There were two ways to do it:
1. make a CD in a discombobulated way (through iTunes) and it could then be copied onto a second person’s computer and into their iTunes.
2. There was an app out called DRM Remover that would do the same thing, and it was easier for me than the iTunes method.
DRM Remover and the iTunes CD were legal for making backups. And because I purchased the tunes for my daughter and don’t listen to them anyway, I felt not remorse as to having done anything illegal. The immoral aspect was the methods of the RIAA and the way that Apple set things up to prevent the ones it was purchased for – from owning them.
Sorry for the previous post’s terrible grammar. Home early with a fever but can’t keep away from MDN! 😉
Or just use one account for everyone in the family. A Family Apple Id. You can purchase things with more than one AppleId… for individual purchases.
Having children is frustrating, this is a frustration of parenthood, not of Apple’s product. I happen to love the fact that all my purchases stay with me, never have to worry about losing it. If it’s seriously THAT frustrating to you that you can’t handle a $0.99 app being stuck on your account and can’t share it, then you probably shouldn’t be a parent to begin with.
The issue isn’t the 99¢ app you don’t want, it’s the hundreds of dollars worth of music the kids bought using the family account that they have no way to take with them when they strike out on their own.
There is one solution that will not fail, just buy physical CDs and rip your own. It’s legal, just as being able to own and transfer ownership of items purchased as digital copies should be legal. Trouble is, that kind of obviates the whole iTunes store concept.
You’re sounding an awful lot like a cheap Samsung customer. When they go off on their own they can get a job and buy their own music. Or the parent should think ahead and setup their own account and buy them iTunes gift cards like everyone does in my extended family.
And you’re sounding like a good little RIAA/MPAA lapdog, buying the exact same thing more than once when you shouldn’t have to.
Physical media purchased by the parents’ credit card can be taken by the kids when they go off on their own. Obviously physical and digital worlds aren’t the same, but simply asking for the ability to transfer digital ownership is not an unreasonable request from an end-user perspective.
And asking that does NOT make someone a “cheap Samsung customer.”
In the digital media world, you’re not “buying” anything! You’re paying for the privilege to listen or watch something. That agreement between you and the artist is handled through a licensing fee.
In the physical media world you’re buying the container that the artist’s presentation has been stored in, but you’re not buying their song or show. Part of your purchase price covers the licensing fee and part of it covers the cost of the container. And yes there are restrictions on just what you can do with that presentation on that physical container. Of course, most people ignore those restrictions.
You do make a very cogent distinction between the digital and physical processes for accessing content. There is no restriction on selling the “container” or giving it away. It would be wrong to pass it around and let a lot of people rip copies, it is not wrong to pass it around and let others view or listen to the CD/DVD.
Perhaps things would be less confusing to people if Apple stopped calling the transaction an iTunes Store Purchase and started calling it a rental or lease. Because with a purchase, whether a physical good, like a book, or an electronic good, like access to content, you own the good.
I’m not disputing that there are differences between digital and physical products. At all.
I’m calling out the0nly0ne for labelling someone a “cheap Samsung customer” for asking a perfectly valid (from the end-user’s perspective) question.
I can’t even believe how stupid you are. The thing I enjoy most about buying anything on iTunes is that no one can take my stuff from me: the borrowed movie that returns damaged if at all for example. Fuck you and your children! They can buy their own shit dude!
Oh! And who said I was buying it more than once? I bought it once, I will keep it, and anyone else can so whatever the hell they want with their own account and their own money.
LOL. Name calling to swearing. Your argument is invalid.
So in order to share music in my family (which people have been doing ever since sound was recorded), I should have to spend time going to the store, buying plastic case and disc that I have to store somewhere at home, spend time ripping the CD to digital format, and all just so we can have one Apple ID to manage with payments? Ridiculous.
Apple needs to force a solution here. The biggest problem is the 10 device limitation: We have 5 iPhones, 2 iPhone 3GSs used as iPods (no cell service), an iPod touch, 2 iPads, and 4 Macs. We are way beyond the 10 device limitation, and that is what is ridiculous.
Agreed, but I don’t believe that iTunes supports ripping to CD’s anymore. You have to use third part software for that.
I’ve been using one Apple ID for all my family’s apps and music. I didn’t want to pay for multiple purchases of the same thing.
Another situation, my mother just passed away a few weeks ago. I have to think about what happens to all her music and apps purchases.
Yes, Apple needs to come up with an improved solution that doesn’t make the customer feel like they are being ripped off. (pun intended)
Coming up with an elegant solution to complicated problems is what Apple does best. (when they put their mind to it)
I said ripping from CD to digital format, not ripping to CDs. iTunes still supports ripping from CDs; I just did a series of CDs last week (content not available on iTunes).
iTunes can still burn cd’s you just put the songs you want to burn in a playlist, when your ready to burn the disc you right click the playlist, and select burn playlist to disc.
Non-DRM music bought from iTunes can be put on any Apple device whether or not they’re on the same account. I don’t see a problem as far as music. This USED to be a problem. Am I missing something here?
I am equally confused about what the problem is for music (apps are still a problem though). iTunes purchases since 2009 have no DRM, and if you have a huge collection of earlier purchases they can be upgraded with an iTunes Match subscription (that you would only need once if your conversion is done before the year’s subscription runs out).
Yes, you are missing something here. For a family archive of music or movies, it’s practically impossible to fit it all “in the icloud”. So therefore most people store their stuff on a Mac or PC.
But for apparently no technical reason, Apple does a poor job of instructing people how to manage accounts. Apple restricts people from migrating media purchased from one account to another person’s account. When the kids take their MacBooks to college, they will want their own Apple IDs, but Apple makes it a hassle to move media.
My recommendation: purchase music on CDs. Rip them to the family archive the old-fashioned way at the bitrate that YOU prefer (AIFF or Apple Lossless if you intend to play your tunes over a decent stereo system). Then learn how to manage iTunes for multiple accounts OR learn to manage playlists so that everyone in the family can sync exactly what they want when they want it.
Apple’s every move seems designed to push people into double-purchasing media instead of OWNING the files they download. That is poor customer service.
I’m not sure how you “fit movies or music in the cloud”. Let me see if I got this correct.
Music, movies, and TV shows can get into your iTunes by one of two methods:
1. Purchase on iTunes Store. The purchase is recorded in your AppleStore account and the media file is in the iCloud. At the time of the purchase, media is downloaded directly to the device from which it is purchased and is stored locally on that device (for example, iTunes on your iMac). For all other devices tied to the same Apple ID, media is automatically available for download, or, depending on the setting, is automatically downloaded (provided there is sufficient free space) to the device (for example, your iPhone, MacBook Pro, or iPad). Even if you delete the file from any of those devices, the purchase remains recorded on your account and can be re-downloaded from the iCloud at any time.
2. Importing into iTunes (on a desktop OS). Your media will be stored in iTunes locally. If you want it on any other mobile device, you will have to sync that device to your iTunes (via USB, or WiFi).
The argument is that you can easily move all iTunes music purchases between desktop OS devices (iMacs, MacBooks, Windows) by exporting the media files from the source iTunes library and re-importing into the target library (presumably, via some shared physical disk space, such as USB stick).
There are two major drawbacks to this system. First, you can only transfer music this way. Movies and TV shows are still wrapped in DRM, and cannot be moved between devices outside of iTunes.
Second, the method is cumbersome and unreliable. It doesn’t allow for a mobile user to download that manually uploaded music from their iTunes iCloud storage, unless the user is paying for iTunes match. The only way those mobile devices can get their music is by syncing to the home computer that has the complete iTunes catalogue.
I don’t think I missed anything as far as music. I specifically targeted the non-issue with music, not movies or apps. So your advice to buy CD’s (which is what I do but for different reasons) is not applicable for the reasons of having a non-DRM base of stored music since purchased iTunes music (within the last couple of years) IS non-DRM and CAN be moved from device to device via Mac or PC.
Within families it’s one thing to consider it “double-purchasing.” But you can see why Apple currently views different devices owned by different people with different ID’s as completely different entities and subject to each purchasing their own media. I don’t think it’s different anywhere else either. I don’t consider it poor customer service so much as a quagmire for Apple to come up with a system that interrelates devices owned by family members and giving licensing permission to share media.
Admittedly, the far bigger problem comes with apps than with music or movies, but if you did have any legacy DRMed music from any source, including older iTunes files, then Apple has no solution for you other than to buy Match and submit yourself to Apple’s nosing around your library with Google-style data snooping. That’s pathetic. But let’s say you have all DRM-free music. Apple doesn’t allow convenient ways for shared family accounts to tag or manage what files are purchased by what actual user. So when daughter goes to college, how does one parcel out her purchases if she used the family Apple ID? Manually. Or, you duplicate all the files (which gets into grey legal areas) and send her off with a new iTunes library that she has to re-edit down to her selections. Well, isn’t that fun.
Apple does not do a good job of training its users how to manage multiple iTunes libaries on a single machine, nor how to merge or split Apple accounts. Obviously Cook’s primary goal is to not to sell more cutting edge hardware — he’s instead staking the company sell Match, to sell duplicate iTunes files, rent streaming content with embedded ads, and to sell more iCloud server rental, to go head-to-head with whatever crap Google rolls out.
Sadly, this means that in iTunes, none of these “services” are easier or more user-friendly than simply managing one’s own collection on a local server where YOU tag whose stuff belongs to whom. You’d think this could be more easily automated, but Doug’s iTunes scripts often do a better job than Apple does at helping people manage their iTunes libraries.
Now let’s look at another natural question. Apple specifically states in its iTunes store terms: “You may not rent, lease, lend, sell, transfer distribute, or sublicense the Licensed Application and, if you sell your Mac Computer or iOS Device to a third party, you must remove the Licensed Application from the Mac Computer or iOS Device before doing so.”
Legal eagles are pondering what that means when a person dies. Can anyone inherit his property that was legally purchased on iTunes? According to Apple, the answer is no — at least, not without significant hassle and possible legal wrangling. That is just wrong, and it’s anti-consumer stuff that Apple should have gotten right by now.
You’re totally right. I think the issue is that the average iTunes just doesn’t understand it. They buy music through iTunes, and then they assume it’s locked to that account, unaware that they can just use copies of the song on any device or computer. It’s an easy assumption to make, given that iTunes apps and video downloads are actually locked to accounts with DRM, and music downloads used to be that way too.
Apple is unlikely to clear this is up. The point of removing this DRM was to make songs easier to use for the ones who purchased them. No need to earn the ire the music industry by informing everyone that it also makes it easier to give copies of purchased music to other users.
In my family we all have separate Apple IDs. But for iTunes we use my Apple ID. Alll purchases go onto the same account and we can access them as we please. The limit on devices is okay as long as you manage it like removing legacy macs that have been retired.
My wife uses my iTunes account, mostly so we can share purchased apps. So far, hasn’t been a problem. I’ve been able to configure iCloud on each device so we’re only sharing and syncing data where it makes sense to. Even set up a nice joint email account on iCloud, that forwards to our separate email accounts. I’m worried though, that I might need branch off her account at some point for some unforeseen reason, and would have been better off doing it sooner.
Does anyone else share their iTunes account like this, and have you had success or problems with it?
i got my first apple id before mac emails existed so i had to use my company email. so i have ended up with two sets of contacts, calendars, etc., with some overlap. i have had to manually move contacts, etc. and then stop using the company email id. but i still have music and apps separated across the two accounts and i am not going to spend money twice on this (i have over 3500 itunes songs and it is cheaper to buy, gradually, used cds from amazon than upgrade to a better bit rate that is still less than ripping a cd to lossless). i have not bought songs from itunes in several years as a mild, probably unnoticed, protest against this inability to merge ids.
Apple had a patent on transferring digital content between accounts, and it was rejected by a court case, I believe. Anyone have a link?
My original .Mac account is now the “family account” for apps and music. We also have individual iCloud accounts for mail, messaging, contacts etc.
My only concern is transferring ownership of the family account after I die.
(As probably noted already it’s possible to be signed in to different Apple IDs on the same device for media and apps than for mail, messaging etc)
Syncing to computers solves the problem. I have music from 4 accounts on my iOS devices.