“Apple has lost a patent case against its Cover Flow and Time Machine interfaces, despite some of the infringement charges from claimant Mirror Worlds being ruled invalid,” Josh Ong reports for AppleInsider.
“Mirror Worlds LLC filed the lawsuit in 2008, alleging that Apple had infringed on patents for creating “streams” of documents sorted by time. According to Bloomberg, a federal jury sided with Mirror Worlds on Friday, although specific details of the ruling were unavailable,” Ong reports. “The judgment wasn’t completely one-sided, though. Legal news site Law360 noted (registration required) in August that some of Mirror Worlds’ claims again Apple had been ruled invalid for ‘indefiniteness.'”
Ong reports, “The lawsuit was submitted to the Tyler County court in eastern Texas, an area known for favoring patent owners. In a study by Stanford Law professor Mark Lemley, an analysis of ten years of patent lawsuits revealed that the Eastern District of Texas has a higher than average claimant win percentage and a better chance of going to trial.”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Edward W.” for the heads up.]
Someone needs to sue Tyler County, Texas under RICO for conspiring to commit patent litigation fraud. Can we give Texas back to the Mexicans?
Someone needs to sue Tyler County, Texas under RICO for conspiring to commit patent litigation fraud. Can we give Texas back to the Mexicans?
The Texas courts defends patent rights against infringers, particularly those with deep pockets like Apple, that believe they can take whatever they want from small companies with their teams of slimy lawyers.
If Apple doesn’t believe in intellectual property rights, why don’t they quit filing patents?
The Texas courts defends patent rights against infringers, particularly those with deep pockets like Apple, that believe they can take whatever they want from small companies with their teams of slimy lawyers.
If Apple doesn’t believe in intellectual property rights, why don’t they quit filing patents?
Look at the patent illustrations submitted by this company. It’s scary how much they look like Time Machine. Coincidence? Great minds thinking alike?
Look at the patent illustrations submitted by this company. It’s scary how much they look like Time Machine. Coincidence? Great minds thinking alike?
@ Gary,
Apparently you haven’t been paying attention to some of the outrageous conclusions of these kangaroo courts. These are simply the results of corrupt judges and a jury pool of inbred, semi-literate hilljacks.
Check out the demographics of this armpit of America and you can see why these clods can easily be bought off. Being in a dry county, they probably guzzle homemade moonshine and toke on their homegrown weed before they ride their mules to church on Sunday and do some good ol’ Bible thumping.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_County,_Texas
@ Gary,
Apparently you haven’t been paying attention to some of the outrageous conclusions of these kangaroo courts. These are simply the results of corrupt judges and a jury pool of inbred, semi-literate hilljacks.
Check out the demographics of this armpit of America and you can see why these clods can easily be bought off. Being in a dry county, they probably guzzle homemade moonshine and toke on their homegrown weed before they ride their mules to church on Sunday and do some good ol’ Bible thumping.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_County,_Texas
The patent trolls need to be put into their place. If you don’t actually create the product than you don’t have a valid argument and the patent is void. Gosh why don’t I patent every god dam idea under the sun and see what innovative company actually makes it happen. Yeah punish the person who has the guts and intellect to produce it in reality.
The patent trolls need to be put into their place. If you don’t actually create the product than you don’t have a valid argument and the patent is void. Gosh why don’t I patent every god dam idea under the sun and see what innovative company actually makes it happen. Yeah punish the person who has the guts and intellect to produce it in reality.
Does anybody ever use cover flow? While it looks cool, it’s not very useful. I wish I could turn it off in my iPod.
Does anybody ever use cover flow? While it looks cool, it’s not very useful. I wish I could turn it off in my iPod.
Gary,
How dare you come into these hallowed halls of “Apple is God” and spew reason? Readers irbid space can’t think for themselves and can only comprehend that Apple is right no matter what.
Sure Apple defends its IP like these guys. But if don’t invoke the double standard that Apple can do it but others can’t, folks here will look at you as if you have 2 heads with green antenea.
You’ve been warned.
Gary,
How dare you come into these hallowed halls of “Apple is God” and spew reason? Readers irbid space can’t think for themselves and can only comprehend that Apple is right no matter what.
Sure Apple defends its IP like these guys. But if don’t invoke the double standard that Apple can do it but others can’t, folks here will look at you as if you have 2 heads with green antenea.
You’ve been warned.
If my damn iPhone didn’t make stupid spelling corrections, “irbid” would have been “in this”.
But hey, maybe there’s someone who holds the patent to make these things work correctly but won’t license it to Apple. I say they should just take it.
If my damn iPhone didn’t make stupid spelling corrections, “irbid” would have been “in this”.
But hey, maybe there’s someone who holds the patent to make these things work correctly but won’t license it to Apple. I say they should just take it.
I spent a year in Tyler one week. It’s a surreal place, more Old South than Texas. The typical mindset is anachronistic by a century, and that’s how they like it.
I spent a year in Tyler one week. It’s a surreal place, more Old South than Texas. The typical mindset is anachronistic by a century, and that’s how they like it.
@ Gary,
First, the patent system is completely broken. Patents are getting issued for general capabilities and extremely general implementations that are not truly unique. Some patents are actually being issued for things that make no sense at all.
I was asked to review a patent this past week that was actually issued. A major aerospace firm was thinking about getting involved with a small company based upon some “new technology” they invented. I reviewed the underlying patent for them. The patent described a system that not only *could not work*, the description and claims actually violate *several* laws of physics!
Also this particular court has never, as far as I have heard, held that a patent is invalid or too vague. The most it has done that is adverse to the patent holder is not support the claim. The majority of the time this court supports the patent holder’s position even if the relationship between the patent and the implied infringement is extremely tenuous.
@ IMadMac2
This court is a patent troll’s paradise. Sane people’s animosity toward this court has nothing to do with the concept of “Apple is God” as you put it. It has to do with this particular court being so pro patent holder that awards are made in the patent holder’s favor even in cases where the patent should be ruled invalid.
@ all,
I’m a patent holder. I have six patents that have been issued, and a few more in process. Each of them are very explicit in their claims. I don’t support general or nebulous patents. If someone were to explicitly and directly violate those patents I’d go after them. However, I’d go after them for specific implementations through direct and clear examples of how the infringer violated explicit claims in the patents (one patent has almost 100 claims to make it very, very clear what is and is not patented).
Additionally, I believe the court should have sanctioned the lawyer for filing claims that were “ruled invalid for ‘indefiniteness.'” Unfortunately, this court will likely never do this.
I will never support vague or inaccurate patents. This court does. I hope Apple appeals, if only to move the venue out of this court and get to somewhere there can be a truly sensible legal ruling can be made.
@ Gary,
First, the patent system is completely broken. Patents are getting issued for general capabilities and extremely general implementations that are not truly unique. Some patents are actually being issued for things that make no sense at all.
I was asked to review a patent this past week that was actually issued. A major aerospace firm was thinking about getting involved with a small company based upon some “new technology” they invented. I reviewed the underlying patent for them. The patent described a system that not only *could not work*, the description and claims actually violate *several* laws of physics!
Also this particular court has never, as far as I have heard, held that a patent is invalid or too vague. The most it has done that is adverse to the patent holder is not support the claim. The majority of the time this court supports the patent holder’s position even if the relationship between the patent and the implied infringement is extremely tenuous.
@ IMadMac2
This court is a patent troll’s paradise. Sane people’s animosity toward this court has nothing to do with the concept of “Apple is God” as you put it. It has to do with this particular court being so pro patent holder that awards are made in the patent holder’s favor even in cases where the patent should be ruled invalid.
@ all,
I’m a patent holder. I have six patents that have been issued, and a few more in process. Each of them are very explicit in their claims. I don’t support general or nebulous patents. If someone were to explicitly and directly violate those patents I’d go after them. However, I’d go after them for specific implementations through direct and clear examples of how the infringer violated explicit claims in the patents (one patent has almost 100 claims to make it very, very clear what is and is not patented).
Additionally, I believe the court should have sanctioned the lawyer for filing claims that were “ruled invalid for ‘indefiniteness.'” Unfortunately, this court will likely never do this.
I will never support vague or inaccurate patents. This court does. I hope Apple appeals, if only to move the venue out of this court and get to somewhere there can be a truly sensible legal ruling can be made.
I had great sympathy for David Gelernter after he was attacked by the Unabomber, but now he is just another patent troll.
I had great sympathy for David Gelernter after he was attacked by the Unabomber, but now he is just another patent troll.
@ iMadMac2,
“If my damn iPhone didn’t make stupid spelling corrections, “irbid” would have been “in this”.
Well, maybe if you knew how to spell in the first place the iPhone wouldn’t have to try to bail out your stupid ass.
@ iMadMac2,
“If my damn iPhone didn’t make stupid spelling corrections, “irbid” would have been “in this”.
Well, maybe if you knew how to spell in the first place the iPhone wouldn’t have to try to bail out your stupid ass.
Cover Flow is a useless shit anyway. I don’t use it in any application.
Cover Flow is a useless shit anyway. I don’t use it in any application.
@knucklehead buster
Favorite post of all time.
@knucklehead buster
Favorite post of all time.
Will all the coverflow copycat software UI, including many built in flex and silverlight, be notified too?
Will all the coverflow copycat software UI, including many built in flex and silverlight, be notified too?
@ Cubert
i’m personally not impressed with the “similarities”. besides a cascading effect (off to the side), this looks nothing like anything i would ever cry plagarism at.
@ Cubert
i’m personally not impressed with the “similarities”. besides a cascading effect (off to the side), this looks nothing like anything i would ever cry plagarism at.
When you apply for a patent, a patent examiner, after intellligent and proper due diligence is supposed to issue a “challenge” which consists of examples and possible other similar inventions and prior art… You then have to satisfy that examiner that the examples are different or acknowledge them etc…
If anyone has ever been through this process they would be appalled at how stupid and un-comprehending some of these examiners are and how little they understand the technology or patent that they are issuing challenges to, let alone how little of the English language they comprehend…
It once took me 5 years to just get a moron at the US patent office to understand my challenge of their challenge…
When you apply for a patent, a patent examiner, after intellligent and proper due diligence is supposed to issue a “challenge” which consists of examples and possible other similar inventions and prior art… You then have to satisfy that examiner that the examples are different or acknowledge them etc…
If anyone has ever been through this process they would be appalled at how stupid and un-comprehending some of these examiners are and how little they understand the technology or patent that they are issuing challenges to, let alone how little of the English language they comprehend…
It once took me 5 years to just get a moron at the US patent office to understand my challenge of their challenge…
” Everything’s broke” except Apple, that’s why it’s Apples time in the sun.
” Everything’s broke” except Apple, that’s why it’s Apples time in the sun.
Wow, such animosity towards the Texas legal system when California is the haven for frivilous class action lawsuits. I was recently involved with a class action suit involving one (1) plaintiff that alleged millions of dollars in damages for a single product that did not work for them. Any bodily injury? NO! Did they attempt to get a refund? NO! What was the price of the product? $50. Will it go to trial? NO! All they want is the maximum amount of money they can get by shaking someone down. That state should be pushed into the ocean. I have no sympathy for the jerks there that prey on honest people. In Europe, the loser pays the legal fees and court costs. Here, someone files a suit and it costs you $100k just to defend yourself. So, you buy the jerks off. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. Instead it is “Innocent but you have to buy off the plaintiff or else your legal fees will put you out of business.”
Wow, such animosity towards the Texas legal system when California is the haven for frivilous class action lawsuits. I was recently involved with a class action suit involving one (1) plaintiff that alleged millions of dollars in damages for a single product that did not work for them. Any bodily injury? NO! Did they attempt to get a refund? NO! What was the price of the product? $50. Will it go to trial? NO! All they want is the maximum amount of money they can get by shaking someone down. That state should be pushed into the ocean. I have no sympathy for the jerks there that prey on honest people. In Europe, the loser pays the legal fees and court costs. Here, someone files a suit and it costs you $100k just to defend yourself. So, you buy the jerks off. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. Instead it is “Innocent but you have to buy off the plaintiff or else your legal fees will put you out of business.”
Mac-Daddio:
The first question a patent lawyer will ask a private individual who wants to patent something is if they have enough money to defend a patent? Basically the shakedown is also a way to steal first and then see how cheap a price you can get away paying in leu of ful out litigation…sound like a familiar MO?
Mac-Daddio:
The first question a patent lawyer will ask a private individual who wants to patent something is if they have enough money to defend a patent? Basically the shakedown is also a way to steal first and then see how cheap a price you can get away paying in leu of ful out litigation…sound like a familiar MO?
Okay, now what?
Okay, now what?
Sheesh, Gary seems to have hit a nerve with some folks on here.
When it comes to lawyers aren’t ALL AMERICAN lawyers slimy and duschbags!
I have sadly had the misfortune of having to hire a USA based lawyer once, that fat retard wouldn’t pick up his pen for less than $500!
Sheesh, Gary seems to have hit a nerve with some folks on here.
When it comes to lawyers aren’t ALL AMERICAN lawyers slimy and duschbags!
I have sadly had the misfortune of having to hire a USA based lawyer once, that fat retard wouldn’t pick up his pen for less than $500!
Stevie will just call in a plague of Locusts to end this. I mean, that’s part of what he learned in the wilderness, right?
Stevie will just call in a plague of Locusts to end this. I mean, that’s part of what he learned in the wilderness, right?
It’s a United States Federal Court, not a Texas state or county court.
It’s a United States Federal Court, not a Texas state or county court.
And Bush talked about solving frivilous lawsuits…start with this one.
Loser pays is the only solution.
And Bush talked about solving frivilous lawsuits…start with this one.
Loser pays is the only solution.
I’m not fond of lawyers, in general, although there are likely many who are good, honest people. Unfortunately they get painted with the same brush as the rest. The same holds true for politicians. I believe that both professions tend to corrupt their practitioners for the same reasons – power and money.
East Texas is not a bastion of reason and fairness. I have been there many times. I know people who have lived there for a long time. Before you assume anything about it, please check the history of east Texas.
I’m not fond of lawyers, in general, although there are likely many who are good, honest people. Unfortunately they get painted with the same brush as the rest. The same holds true for politicians. I believe that both professions tend to corrupt their practitioners for the same reasons – power and money.
East Texas is not a bastion of reason and fairness. I have been there many times. I know people who have lived there for a long time. Before you assume anything about it, please check the history of east Texas.
Something about east Texas boy…
Something about east Texas boy…
If apple have took any decision, then i think he thought it would be much. and i trust on apple.
http://forcefactorsupplements.com
If apple have took any decision, then i think he thought it would be much. and i trust on apple.
http://forcefactorsupplements.com
“Woe to ye lawyers and scribes!” – Jesus of Nazareth
“Woe to ye lawyers and scribes!” – Jesus of Nazareth
I for one actually do like Coverflow. Does this ruling mean Apple will have to do away with it?
I for one actually do like Coverflow. Does this ruling mean Apple will have to do away with it?
@m159
What’s surreal is your time travel abilities. You spent a year in Texas one week? Maybe you should patent that.
@m159
What’s surreal is your time travel abilities. You spent a year in Texas one week? Maybe you should patent that.
And people speculate what Apple is going to do with its hoard of cash. The answer is: Legal fees for the endless stream of lawsuits against them (and the settlements and penalties thereof). Let’s see – how many of their devices in the field now have a cover-flow type of interface in them? Or a Time Machine application? Multiplied by the ‘harm’ or ‘value’ of cover flow or time machine calculated to the patent holder, and that war chest doesn’t look so large.
And how many other patents is Apple defending (or will defend in the future, now that EVERYTHING KNOWN TO MAN has been patented or hinted at vaguely in someone else’s patent?
$40 Beeeeellion dollars – not so much of a shield for the biggest target in this economy.
And people speculate what Apple is going to do with its hoard of cash. The answer is: Legal fees for the endless stream of lawsuits against them (and the settlements and penalties thereof). Let’s see – how many of their devices in the field now have a cover-flow type of interface in them? Or a Time Machine application? Multiplied by the ‘harm’ or ‘value’ of cover flow or time machine calculated to the patent holder, and that war chest doesn’t look so large.
And how many other patents is Apple defending (or will defend in the future, now that EVERYTHING KNOWN TO MAN has been patented or hinted at vaguely in someone else’s patent?
$40 Beeeeellion dollars – not so much of a shield for the biggest target in this economy.
Yes, let’s send Texas back to Mexico. That’s a good idea. Then there will be nowhere in the USA to find a job.
Texas > you
Yes, let’s send Texas back to Mexico. That’s a good idea. Then there will be nowhere in the USA to find a job.
Texas > you
If we disregard for the moment the whole “state of the patent law in US” debate, this patent-infringement loss strategically doesn’t mean much for Apple in that both cover flow, as well as the Time Machine UI are very narrowly defined, have fairly unique use and don’t represent the fundamental core of Apple’s new technologies, specifically those epitomising the iPhone.
We don’t know what parts of the claim against Apple were thrown out, but Apple has no need to be too concerned, since all these patent trolls want is some cash, and it all goes away. In other words, this is not HP, or Google, winning some key patent, requiring Apple to re-engineer their user interface around it (since big ones like HP or Google would presumably NOT want to license such patented technology to competitors).
Strategically, this doesn’t really mean much. The court in question has a proven track record, so it isn’t like Apple had not expected the possibility. Much like many other tiny little patent troll fish out there, this one will be properly paid off, all the lawyers involved will get themselves a new BMW or a boat…
If we disregard for the moment the whole “state of the patent law in US” debate, this patent-infringement loss strategically doesn’t mean much for Apple in that both cover flow, as well as the Time Machine UI are very narrowly defined, have fairly unique use and don’t represent the fundamental core of Apple’s new technologies, specifically those epitomising the iPhone.
We don’t know what parts of the claim against Apple were thrown out, but Apple has no need to be too concerned, since all these patent trolls want is some cash, and it all goes away. In other words, this is not HP, or Google, winning some key patent, requiring Apple to re-engineer their user interface around it (since big ones like HP or Google would presumably NOT want to license such patented technology to competitors).
Strategically, this doesn’t really mean much. The court in question has a proven track record, so it isn’t like Apple had not expected the possibility. Much like many other tiny little patent troll fish out there, this one will be properly paid off, all the lawyers involved will get themselves a new BMW or a boat…
And we also don’t know if this will be appealed by Apple or not…
And we also don’t know if this will be appealed by Apple or not…
There’s no doubt, Apple will drag on with the appeal, before agreeing to pay $200+ million (according to Bloomberg). After all, Apple legal department is receiving salaries to do precisely that — defend Apple in court.
There’s no doubt, Apple will drag on with the appeal, before agreeing to pay $200+ million (according to Bloomberg). After all, Apple legal department is receiving salaries to do precisely that — defend Apple in court.
I don’t have a problem with patents per se. The problem is with patents based not on a product but on a process or look/feel. This, some what, all started with Amazon, who was able to defend a patent for one-touch purchasing. This win opened the floodgates to process based patents that are based solely on an way of doing something (an idea).
BTW, Apple once upon a time did try to fight MSFT over the look and feel of Mac OS, which Windows obviously copied.
I don’t have a problem with patents per se. The problem is with patents based not on a product but on a process or look/feel. This, some what, all started with Amazon, who was able to defend a patent for one-touch purchasing. This win opened the floodgates to process based patents that are based solely on an way of doing something (an idea).
BTW, Apple once upon a time did try to fight MSFT over the look and feel of Mac OS, which Windows obviously copied.
Looking over what is provided in the source article, I have to ask:
What was actually on trial here? Patents or the US patent system? Considering the fact that the lawsuit is dickering over dead basic database technology with cute GUI elements sprinkled on top, I have the opinion that the loser is the US patent system, or rather its creative victims.
How about I patent the human elbow! I’ll make <I>$billions<I> suing Gawd!!!
Looking over what is provided in the source article, I have to ask:
What was actually on trial here? Patents or the US patent system? Considering the fact that the lawsuit is dickering over dead basic database technology with cute GUI elements sprinkled on top, I have the opinion that the loser is the US patent system, or rather its creative victims.
How about I patent the human elbow! I’ll make <I>$billions<I> suing Gawd!!!
What a bunch of crybabies. Hope you never work for a little company and one day some big bad company (not apple of course) takes your patent. You probably think music should be free too.
What a bunch of crybabies. Hope you never work for a little company and one day some big bad company (not apple of course) takes your patent. You probably think music should be free too.
I don’t know the specifics of these cases, but didn’t Apple loose “look and feel” lawsuits in the 80s? Its sounds like these cases are “look and feel” which would be unfair to Apple since Apple lost such cases previously.
I don’t know the specifics of these cases, but didn’t Apple loose “look and feel” lawsuits in the 80s? Its sounds like these cases are “look and feel” which would be unfair to Apple since Apple lost such cases previously.