“‘Apple’s playing this strategy where they want to create a walled garden’ around the Internet, Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch remarked at a tech conference in San Francisco. He then compared the company’s moves to the deployment of railways with varying gauges in the 1800s, which precluded compatibility with the trains of rivals,” Letzing reports. “‘If you look at what’s going on right now, it’s kind of like railroads in the 1800s,’ Lynch said.”
Letzing reports, “‘I don’t think it’s the role of the company to exercise that judgment over what people are making,’ Lynch said to a smattering of applause, while charging that Apple’s practices are ‘preventing healthy competition.'”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: We liken Adobe to a software company run by lazy illogical ingrates.
MacDailyNews Note: Note to advertisers: (including those who advertise via third-party ad networks and become, in effect, our advertisers): Your Flash-based ads are no longer reaching the most well-heeled customers online: 50+ million iPhone owners. They’re also not hitting 35+ million iPod touch users or 1+ million brand new iPad users. If you care about reaching people with discretionary income, you might want to consider dumping your flash-based ads and moving to a more open format that people with money and the will to spend it can actually see.
Help kill Adobe’s Flash:
• Ask MarketWatch to offer HTML5 video via the customer support web form here.
• Ask CNBC to offer HTML5 video via the customer support web form here.
• Contact Hulu and ask them to offer HTML5 video via email:
• Ask ESPN360 to offer HTML5 video instead Flash via their feedback page here.
• Join YouTube’s HTML5 beta here.
• On Vimeo, click the “Switch to HTML5 player” link below any video.
By the way, do not buy Adobe’s Photoshop Elements until you have tried Pixelmator’s free 30-day trial. We use Pixelmator daily.
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Those that can – Do
Those that can’t – make Loud Noise
Give us back Aldus or Macromedia, then there will be competition
So desiring content delivered via an open standard vice a proprietary bloated piece of outdated garbage is akin to railroads of years past. Adobe CEO is nuts at best – sell short on adobe ?
@ jalopy
You got it…that’s the key…unbundle Adobe so we can get the best application operating unencumbered from the 19th or 18th Century mindset.
Adobe, squealing like a stuck pig that’s near death.
I’m a marketing consultant and designer. I’m running cs4 and it completely sucks. Going back to cs3 and sure as hell have no interest in cs5.
I really hope some company comes along and tears adobe a new one. So pissed at them. Crappy product, crappy service, crappy mindset.
Lynch is so full of crap. If he’d done his damned job and made Flash reliable, then Apple would have wanted it on the iPhone.
-jcr
How about if Adobe changed Flash to generate both Flash and HTML5 compatible video?
Adobe, You’re really asking for it.
You will loose this war so miserably, that it would be a lesson for the ages…
You want an all out war? You have no allies.
You will collapse. start saving those exorbitant upgrade $$$, because you’ll be paying high legal fees to defend against every one and a few class actions, while selling less upgrades to pissed off users.
I think the railroad analogy is a perfect example of competition in action. If Adobe believes that “Apple Railroad” is laying an incompatible “track” in the marketplace, then Adobe should be unconcerned, as the market would ultimately render “Apple Railroad” obsolete.
But clearly, Adobe IS concerned. Which belies that they believe that their own “tracks” may not be the guage of the future.
If Adobe wants an analogy to describe what’s happening int he tech sector right now, try this: Adobe is fiddling with building railroads while Apple is perfecting the Lear Jet…
To bad the latest facts show adobes flash losing marketshare to H.264 big time. It looks like adobes railroad is coming to a dead end. While Apples railroad is expanding with no end In sight. Apple looks to the best technology to do the job. Adobe looks at the same old thing over and over.
“‘Apple’s playing this strategy where they want to create a walled garden’ around the Internet”
So, by attempting to steer people towards OPEN standards Apple is trying to create a walled garden? Huh?
Magic word: living – This fool is living in denial.
I have to think Adobe makes a crapton of money from Flash, because that’s the only way their recent behavior makes any sense at all.
The problem with this “railroad” analogy is that the gage of the tracks are analogous to today’s HTML Open Standards … they are the conduit to the media product.
To continue the analogy, Apple has called that only locomotives with the Apple set of controls (Deadman’s Switch, etc) is licensed for use. Otherwise, go use someone else’s train.
Adobe’s Flash klunge is an attempted replacement for Apple’s engineer’s controls of the locomotive – – and effectively, Adobe is saying “Trust Us” (with the locomotive’s controls), and Apple is simply saying “No”.
-hh
No, Mr. Lynch, Apple is trying to keep the Interstate highway system open to all consumers, regardless of which car they choose to drive — a marked contrast to making everyone drive a Flashmobile.
The railroad analogy is perfectly accurate. However Apple is laying down standard gauge track (HTML5, C,C++,obj-C) and adobe is building its own narrow gauge trains (flash).
Anyone else noticing how few Flash ads are showing up on MDN lately?
FUD BS.
That’s better MDN. Now you’re making it clear that it’s Adobe’s management who you regard as lazy ingrates, not all of the staff.
My own beef with Adobe relates to what they did to Macromedia’s FreeHand.
Micro Me:
The fish stinks from the head.
I just tried out pixelmator yesterday and wow its pretty awesome. If only it had a few other additions to it like applying layer styles and the ability to turn them off or on it would be soo much better.
Unbelievable hypocrisy….. Unbelievable.
Adobe is no pussy – as Steve is discovering in ways he may not have predicted. Oh, he’ll win but it’s going to take longer and there will be blood stains in places he may live to regret.
There are ads on MDN? That AdBlock Plus for Firefox works well, I guess.
Pride come before the fall. Goodbye Flash, we won’t miss you.
Hey Kevin, “Go Fsck Yourself” With ur Antiquated Crap.
FAIL. I can’t just start Safari, Firefox, Opera, or even Internet Explorer and view Flash content without installing a plugin. When I can do that, then be can rant all he wants about a closed system. But for now, Adobe still doesn’t understand that Flash is the walled garden.
Flash plugin = railroad gauge
The Apple/Railroad analogy is preposterous on many obvious levels.
Adobe cancelled their mobile version of flash (development) a few years ago. Now they are bemoaning their bad decision and now trying to get folks to feel sorry for them. Kinda hope that Apple buys them when they become a penny stock company and build some good stuff.
I’m getting annoyed by Adobe.
I’m hoping Apple invents it’s own professional suite of photo editing and vector drawing proframs.
Lynch was expecting CS5 to sell like gangbusters. Now there’s no reason for anyone to get it.
God help the ignorant fools who actually believe this utter nonsense.
Apple’s train track isn’t the only one in town–it just skirts around the seedier parts of town. The parts of town a person would want to avoid–if he were smart.
They’re not even telling other companies to stop building their tracks–just that their highly stylized, ultra-cool, expensive trains will no longer run on other companies lines.
And who cares if it IS the only track in town–IT’S GOIN’ TO THE PROMISED LAND, BABY!!!
I’d ride that train any day!…..except Thursday’s–that’s the day I give grandma her bath.
Marginalizing Adobe by applying a label proves nothing.
@MEES
Apple isn’t going to support their production and creative software they are still selling much less invent anything new.
Apple is a mobile device company. The Mac and its OS are history.*
*Source: Steve Jobs
Well I say Adobe is like Microsoft.
Continuously putting out defective products hoping their customers will not notice or just wait for yet another defective upgrade.
“‘Apple’s playing this strategy where they want to create a walled garden around the Internet”
If this were true, Adobe would have a valid point.
However, the truth is:
“they want to create a walled garden WITHIN the Internet”
The fact is that consumers know this going in, and there are numerous other choices if consumers do not like this arrangement.
Adobe’s board and shareholders better put some muzzles on their management. Every time that they publicly comment on this subject they come off as self-serving boobs. Their analogies are lame and logic is completely non-existent. Adobe is clearly banking on the typical end user being totally ignorant on the issues involved in this debate.
So Adobe, go and build your own Tablet and make it run Flash and whatever else you want it to. Quit crying about Apple.
Does MS let it’s customers run Flash websites on the XBox 360? Oh, right, it doesn’t have a web browser. But that’s their choice. Are you going to claim that just because something has a web browser that they MUST allow you to pollute it with Flash?
A “Smattering of Applause” ? Sounds like the audience is more sophisticated than Mr. Lunch. Certainly more polite!
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Adobe makes magenta onion shift cone sprat in left smoothie and in clip from.
See, I can string words together too. Makes perfect sense doesn’t it!
The issue here isn’t whether or not Flash is reliable, buggy, or just lazy. It’s does Steve Jobs get to play God and pick and chose what technology or what programs we are “allowed” to play with? He has created his garden, called us his children, and said, “Thou shall not eat from the tree of Flash.”
This is why I despise analogies in almost all cases. The analogues are almost always selected in order to force an ideological viewpoint into a situation rather than illuminate the situation. Apple is not a monopoly in any way that matters in the cell phone market. That they have a massively successful store can’t possibly make them the only store. So drawing comparisons to said barons only serves to tie Apple’s image to that of an actual abusive monopoly and make emotional pleas to an innacurate portrayal.
No one is forced to buy the iPad. If you don’t like the fact Flash is not available on the iPad go and buy one of the many other amazingly popular and successful tablets on the market that support Flash. Oh wait a minute there aren’t any others.
Too bad you treated Apple like shit this past decade eh Adobe?
Payback is a bitch.
As usual, Daniel Eran Dilger has posted a good take on Adobe’s claim against Apple.
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/05/05/adobes-flash-monopoly-game-against-apple/
Payback a bitch, I can hardly wait for Steve’s response.
I think they have it backwards, Adobe wants a walled garden with Flash while Apple wants an open internet with HTML5, … and control of their platform. Maybe Adobe fears the day when Apples market share is near 100%, then they might wall off the internet!
Here’s the thing Adobe – stand in front of a 200 mph express train and you’re gonna get run over!
We’re at the crossroads of a new gauge of (media) transport. Get on track, or be left standing in the sidings…
What BS.
Apple/Jobs wants open standards (== standardized tracks).
What Adobe wants, are their own tracks beside the standard ones that only their engines can use. Apple retorts by disallowing Adobe’s engines that are modified to run on standard tracks (which do not run very well and use lots of coal).
adumby is just full of hot air…
@Bartsimpsonhead
“…Adobe – stand in front of a 200 mph express train and you’re gonna get run over!
Nice!
Adobe,…meet Microsoft, you’re gonna be sharing a room together for the next millenium.
One More TIme:
Flash/smartphones 2010 = Floppydisc/Computers 1995
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid one can be and yet make it an executive level in a company. This guy is just stupid.
@ edwardd20
I agree. How about Flash just become a tool in the CS kit to create HTML5 video?
I haven’t once seen an Adobe exec tell us why Flash is better than or a good complement to HTML5. They just tell us that it’s everywhere, so we must want to continue to have it.
Hey, Adobe, the Ford Pinto used to be everywhere.
Apple is moving to fast for us… we want the old tracks to stay the way they are coz we are lazy…
The railway gauge may be different but the Apple train is the only one that fits properly.
Why Adobe thinks they’re hot s!@#
This from Answer.com (Wiki Answers):
Adobe: a clay-like material that is formed into bricks or blocks and dried in the sun.
And thisfrom Wikipedia:
Adobe: a natural building material made from sand, clay, manure.
Why Adobe thinks they’re Hot S@!%…
This from Aswers.com(Wiki Answers)
Adobe: a clay-like material that is formed into bricks or blocks and dried in the sun.
And this from WikiPedia:
Adobe: a natural building material made from sand, clay, manure.
Fortunately, markets tend to correct themselves. Google is becoming a big supporter of Flash. Either Apple will kill Adobe, or people will continue using Flash and Android will become more popular because it is perceived by users as being “more open”.
You guys forget one thing. The users don’t care about HTML5, nor any other “open” standard. All they care about is “does it run my program”. That’s what open means. If Google allows it and Apple doesn’t, then Android will be perceived more “open”. Who cares about open standards when you want to use something? Do you really believe the average user even knows they are running Flash? Give me a break. They just click and something works or doesn’t.
It works good on Android and sucks on Apple. That’s all they know!
The question is this “Will it matter?” Google is playing a very good strategy by pushing Flash. It is a smart move. The more Flash they can get out into the wild, the more “inadequate” Apple products will appear.
Apple is gambling, they can kill Flash and maintain more control, and Google is gambling that by pushing Flash, their product will be perceived more useful.
Who will win?
Let’s not forget, that all the other phone manufactures are very interested in Flash, plus lots of set top TV’s are going Flash as well.
If I were an Apple competitor, “Flash Everywhere” could become Apple’s Achilles’ heal.
It is too soon to predict who will win. I wouldn’t count Flash out, Google is pushing it and they are no chump, and more manufacturers will likely jump on the bandwagon because this could become Apple’s weakness. Flash everywhere could certainly throw sand into the gears at Apple.
Also lets not forget, Apple may have the lead now, but everybody is copying them. It is much easier to copy than it is to innovate. Other devices will catch up because they are learning fast. If Flash is everywhere and the other devices are “adequate” compared to Apple. Apple will have some problems.
No matter what you think the HTC EVO Wimax phone which also can act as a wireless HotSpot, runs Flash, runs the latest Android, and lets you tether at speeds up to 10 times faster than AT&T;with an unlimited data plan will be quite an attraction for many people–and its is coming this summer.
History will likely show that Apple caused the Flash market to heat up because it is the first big thing that the competition can use against them, and make Apple appear to incompatible!
Users don’t care about standards, just geeks!
Anyone can create their own “walled garden” if they have the time and money. The issue, to Adobe’s chagrin, is that a whole lot of people want to play in Apple’s walled garden. Meanwhile, the Flash garden is looking rather barren.
The fact is that Adobe was and is free to compete. The problem is that Adobe failed to successfully do so. When you think of the long and painful path that Adobe software has taken since the mid-1990s, it is clear that the company squandered major advantages and major opportunities through inefficiency and mismanagement. So, now, Adobe joins the ranks of complainers wanting to be made magically whole again.
No Flash. No way.
What an idiot!
Crashed the browser right there for all to see! ahahaha
WOW! Who would have ever thought Adobe, once a premiere, cutting edge, innovative company, would ever get this desperate? It is too bad that leadership there is incapable of truly leading. Can I say that this is the result of offshore sourcing leadership or will I now be blasted with being a bigot?
@ Contrarian – Just got done reading the Roughly Drafted article you linked.
I’m really amazed that nobody is calling Adobe on their near-monopoly position on the internet. How the *#%$ do they get away with saying *Apple* has the monopoly? Where are all the replies pointing out Adobe’s monopoly position and the way they’re abusing it right now??
Just when I start to think there’s no anti-Apple conspiracy, inexplicable things like this make me reconsider.
@ SouthRoad – You might want to read this article (particularly the last two sections) for some pretty strong arguments about how Adobe Flash is far more likely to hobble Apple’s mobile competitors instead of helping them.
Aha, perhaps Adobe’s recent accusations against Apple are spurring a backlash?
Adobe accused on software monopoly – perhaps Adobe will regret the day they tried pushing spurious “monopoly” accusations against Apple, not realizing that Adobe themselves would come under closer and wider monopoly scrutiny as a result.
I like the railroad analogy. Let’s see… Apple builds a maglev railroad that accommodates high speed trains built to fit the specs of the railroad. Apple provides the tools to build such trains at next to nothing.
People build lots of maglev high speed trains and attract lots of passengers.
Adobe wants to build slow trains, using old technology, which run at the same low speed on all railroads, including the old iron ones. Adobe’s trains don’t levitate above the track either – causing wear and tear and consuming lots of power. Apple says go away, your trains are too slow and old fashioned. Build a fast train which exploits the special characteristics of our track, or go and play with your steam engines elsewhere…
Adobe sulks. No-one is interested in buying their trains now.
Apple builds streets, Adobe builds trains
The FTC should instead investigate the terrorist Adobe for using its terror Flash bomb to crash Apple’s system. Apple has been tolerating this terrorist for far too long and has finally decided to remove the Flash bomb. What’s wrong with that? The FTC should set its priority right and not allow terrorists to create havoc.
Surely building railways of different gauges was in fact offering choice (and sometime common sense in regard to the narrow gauge) rather than a Standard gauge that was dictated by the ruts on the roads built by the Romans (and interestingly dictated the diameter of the Saturn rocket) that we have been saddled with since A bit like Adobe when you think of it.
As it turned out unfortunately rather like an earlier form of Betamax vs VHS the wrong Roman inspired gauge was selected to the detriment of innovation since. Of course if the rather superior Broad gauge, as designed and built by Brunel was used instead railways would no doubt have been far more advanced and useful than the present ill conceived compromise that resulted from so called compatibility. Oh and to paraphrase someone else, ‘Mr Lynch you are no Isambard Kingdom Brunel’… not by any method you gauge him by.
And as much as it may be taken as flattery I doubt that even the iPad/iPhone will ‘own’ the internet as he suggests though surely if it did it would not be unlike the compatible system he so desires.
What’s that saying about kettles and pots?
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/05/adobe.says.wont.ignore.html5.for.flash/
“The stance is partly guided by Adobe’s interest in making Flash the centerpiece of mobile app development but does also reflect concerns about the cost of cross-developing when the iPhone is included. Writing apps for both the iPhone and another platform is potentially costly as it would now require producing at least two main versions, with one made using Flash and the other Xcode or another native Objective C tool.”
Kevin Lynch, Xcode is Free… hello – what’s the trouble?
Solution, just give the CS5 suit away as freeware.