“Addressing a call by Free Software Foundation Europe to use the open-source codec for plugin-free video, Jobs warned that it may infringe on patents and could face a lawsuit, though not necessarily from Apple,” Electronista reports. “He suggested that H.264 fit the definition of an open standard and admitted it wasn’t necessarily what open-source advocates would expect.”
Electronista reports, “‘All video codecs are covered by patents,’ Jobs wrote from his iPad. ‘A patent pool is being assembled to go after Theora and other ‘open source’ codecs now. Unfortunately, just because something is open source, it doesn’t mean or guarantee that it doesn’t infringe on others patents. An open standard is different from being royalty free or open source.'”
Full article here.
what is an open latter?
I can’t tell what an open latter is either,
but it has a nice rung to it.
The opposite of an open former.
People are screaming…. The doors have opened.
@T
An Open Latter is obviously an Ogg Letter.
http://webkit.sed.hu/blog/20100427/what-are-javascript-and-svg-good-built-flash-engine
Steve Jobs is king of the World.
http://wiki.github.com/tobeytailor/gordon/
Of course, Apple critics are still insisting that “Thoughts on Flash” is, in fact, a closed letter from Steve Jobs – not an “open” one.
I’m gonna open another beer.
H.264, MPEG-4, Theora, Vorbis, Speex, FLAC, Dirac codec and Ogg, Matroska containers.
“Of course, developers can rely on the H.264 codec and hardware acceleration support of the underlying operating system, like Windows 7, without paying any additional royalty.”
But they will need to purchase a licence to encode their content for commercial uses, esp. after the grace period (2016).
Patent Pool Being Assembled To Go After Theora
Well, this certainly explains a whole lot. Both Apple and Microsoft have stated that the legality of Theora is highly debatable, and as it turns out, they knew more than we do – most likely courtesy of their close involvement with the MPEG-LA. Responding to an email from Free Software Foundation Europe activist Hugo Roy, Steve Jobs has stated that a patent pool is being assembled to go after Theora.
@ T, Monger, ChrissyOne, iQuack et al
An open letter is one which is published openly rather than sent directly to the recipient as a private communiqué.
Here are two examples:
One from Steve to the World at large
And one from Hugo Roy to Steve
Authors tend to use open letters in an inclusive way to encourage a response to a topical issue by invoking a debate in the public gaze, rather than a private approach which may be ignored by the recipient.
@Sir Gill Bates: make mine a Boddingtons!
Adobe Implement H264 Acceleration for Flash on Mac OS X
I think it’s about time we got an Adobe category. Apple recently made public an API to allow OS X software access to hardware H.264 acceleration (albeit such acceleration is only available on chipsets since the Nvidia 9400M–early 2008) and Adobe have already baked this in to a beta preview of Flash 10.1 “Gala”! Update: Steve Jobs himself weighs in on Flash (via Engadget): “New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.”
We’ve talked about this on OSNews in quite some detail already. H264 is no better than Flash. This video codec is proprietary and patented up the wazzoo, and therefore, wholly incompatible with the very concept of an open standard. To make matters much, much worse, the licensing body that oversees H264, the MPEG-LA, has stated in no uncertain terms that they will not hesitate to sue ordinary users for using the video codec.
C1
I saw the Doors in September 1968 in San Diego. It was groovy! But it was the Chambers Brothers opening the show.
Well, this was about as inevitable as Apple not losing a super-secret iPhone prototype: Google and Adobe have pretty much formed an alliance against the iPhone, in true the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend style. The agreement between the two companies is clearly a big middle finger towards Apple and the iPhone. Update: Apple has finally added a framework to Mac OS X that will enable accelerated Flash video content – something Adobe has been asking for. This should enable Adobe to greatly improve Flash video performance on Mac OS
Never walk under an Open Latter!
@ting. Sure I know what an open letter is but what is an open latter.
Adobe is using Theora H.264 in the Flash container… for Gala – and Google Android.
Go get them – Steve – they bad – ain’t they….
Flash video most often these days is a container that contains h.264 video. Saying that h.264 is no better than Flash, is like saying Shell gas is no better than a BMW gas tank. One has nothing to do with each other. Now if you said Flash vs say a HTML5/Javascript player i mplementation I might understand (but still disagree).
@ Ting,
Had to look it up on Wikipedia; sounds interesting. If it’s as good as Guinness I’m sure I’d enjoy it.
omg:
I don’t know what was discussed at OSNews, but what you are saying is simply NOT true. Adobe is the sole owner of the proprietary Flash technology. It is them, and only them (i.e. one SINGLE company) who decides who gets to use Flash and who doesn’t. Mac users have many years of frustration as proof how well this works; ever since Adobe went Windows, Mac became neglected and disregarded, and products were never on par. Meanwhile, MPEG-LA is a company that manages patent pools for MPEG standards. These are NOT property of any ONE company; these are OPEN standards, and MPEG-LA handles licensing for patented components. The company’s motivation is to provide license to EVERYONE who requests it.
Open-source proponents often (deliberately?) confuse terms ‘open standard’ and ‘open-source’. Open source generally means that no fee can be charged for a license to use the technology, while open standard allows using patented technologies. The open standards are different from proprietary standards in that open standards are accessible to anyone who is willing to pay for the necessary license, while proprietary (closed) standards are a property of a single company, which chooses what to do and whether to license the technology or not. Big difference.
@ Predrag
Should copy and paste that response on text edit. Simply because they will bring up the same point over and over and over again. Until it finally sinks in, if ever.
Steve has been communicating a lot since he got his new iPad.
You’re right about that. I just took a look at that OSNews site; they are a very passionate bunch, but really detached from reality.
This Theora codec is as obscure as they could possibly come. Why on Earth would any mainstream manufacturer bother to develop technology that supports it, if nobody actually uses it (outside of the very narrow circle of übergeeks.
Ok T, you got me with the ‘latter’ thing.
You can join me and Sir Gill Bates down the pub for a pint of Boddingtons!
omg,
“We’ve talked about this on OSNews in quite some detail already. H264 is no better than Flash. “
Wow dude, way to start out. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don’t even have a concept of the difference between a Data Pipe, and a codec.
Even if anything else you said actually made sense (which it didn’t BTW) no one with a clue would have read it because you blew it completely in the first sentence.
@ Ting,
Great commercial! Forget the pint – I’m goin’ for an Imperial gallon! Wahooo!
@ Jubei:
@ Predrag
Should copy and paste that response on text edit. Simply because they will bring up the same point over and over and over again. Until it finally sinks in, if ever.
Yes. In fact, MDN, add the quote to your banner.
> what is an open latter?
Isn’t it some sort of fancy coffee drink?
“H264 is no better than Flash. This video codec is proprietary and patented up the wazzoo, and therefore, wholly incompatible with the very concept of an open standard.”
I’m not speaking of quality or container vs codec – nothing of the sort.
I am saying, neither technology is suitable for the concept of OPEN – as Steve Jobs openly talks about Flash.
iPhone is proof in the puddling – no need for Flash.
To omg:
You continue to confuse the concept of open source with open STANDARDS. Let me say that again: You continue to confuse the concept of open source with open STANDARDS.
Nothing about H264 is closed. ANYONE can pay for the license and use it; there are no arbitrary restrictions or limitations due to platform differences, etc, because it is an OPEN standard (unlike, say, WMV, which Microsoft owns and decides who can license it and who can’t. Or Flash, owned by Adobe, which decides who can license it and who cant. Or, … you get the picture, I hope).
And I would totally agree about the iPhone being the proof “in the pudding”: It relies on OPEN technology (such as MPEG-2, MPEG-4, H.264 and similar), but takes a principled stand against CLOSED, proprietary technology (such as Flash, WMV, WMA, RealMedia and similar).
@Sir Gill Bates: A gallon? Eight pints?
Now you’re talking! We’re off on a pub crawl!
“T” – you joining us?
Go here to read Daniel Lyons BS on Apple and Steve Jobs.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/236890
I stopped using Ogg files when Apple embraced MP4 (AAC).
Hey – thanks to straighten me out on all that stuff there – but – how am I confused with open source… H.264 is not OPEN SOURCE nor did I say it was. I clearly said it was not suitable for open standards.
I understand you – so – where did I confuse you?
Not once have I made reference on open-source nor did comparing anything to open standards. I never made any mention that H.264 is CLOSED either.
You’re reading into things beyond what I noted.
Perhaps, you have a comprehension issue – but you seem to be quite an intelligent person so – lay-off your lectures. You’re preaching to the wrong guy.
And Uncle Fester’s cousin – you missed the point too… simply put – I was referencing the OPEN ness of the technologies FLASH and H.264 — not the way they function or the way they are used. And the iPhone/iPad are extremely successful and will continue to be – without FLASH content.
The topics of these past few days has been… FLASH and whether or not Apple has made a good move. About the proprietary of technologies from Adobe… I believe they Apple has. That’s Apple has made the right move. Got it!!!!
If one is to explain in detail the stories and topics prior to posting a rather simple comment – well then we are all on the wrong page — that would be rather ridiculous – then again, perhaps beer is an appropriate topic here – duh.
Thanks all for your comments on my comment – rather then the topic in which this page is about. Keep up the good fight. Apple rules.
When trying to build a product based on multiple technologies the only thing worse than a technology you have no control over (flash) is a technology no one has any control over (Ogg).
Businesses can’t build on Ogg because they just cant predict or depend on it. No one in controls means no one invested enough to defend or support it.
Sorry I am late to the thread.
I fell off the proprieter’s open ladder
and had to get stitches
on my open sores.
Now what were y’all talking about?
i really hate mac computers – why cant apple make yahoo work same as cps… i got yahoo version 10 and my bf always busy typing here and he got version 3… he says it a beta – i just don’t get it… mac are to be more safe and macs no viruses … but why they cant be same version software
It’s great to see a CEO who is familiar and conversant with the details of his technology.
I mean that in general, since it’s so often absent.
But was particularly evident in its absence in the Adobe CEO’s response this week to SJ’s open letter about Flash. Instead of talking about the technology, he called it all a “smokescreen.” And when have you heard Google’s CEO talk like this? Never. They are politicians.
@CHRISTINE ALGOY, you are an idiot. Please leave the room.
Really a educative and informative post, the post is good in all regards,I am glad to read this post.
http://www.articlesbase.com/dental-care-articles/alpine-white-teeth-whitening-review-amp-free-trial-2212431.html
Predrag: It is in the interest of open source proponents to confuse unlimited access with cost-free access as much as possible. More people believe in equal opportunity than in socialism.
OMG
“Hey – thanks to straighten me out on all that stuff there – but – how am I confused with open source… H.264 is not OPEN SOURCE nor did I say it was. I clearly said it was not suitable for open standards”
People are really trying to help you but you keep spinning in circles. (or perhaps that is intentional)
Let me try to simplify- h.264 is an OPEN STANDARD but is not OPEN SOURCE nor is it free (but is openly licensed). Flash is not an open standard (it is proprietary to adobe and closed)
There is a HUGE difference between a proprietary “industry standard” (something that becomes widely used but is closed and proprietary) and a true open standard that you seem to be missing.
c1 you always brighten one’s day, and give us a giggle or two!
Let’s clear something up. Boddingtons was a Manchester (UK) Brewery that brewed beautiful, tasty beer – let’s call the beer Open Source. Then it got bought out by a big conglomerate brewery and thereonin the beer sucks compared to the original one – now a closed source. Boddingtons therefore has a false reputation and if you actually sat and disected the taste then you would agree with me. Now for real beer try Black Sheep. Thwaites was bought out by a big conglomerate and one of the owners set up privately with the Black Sheep brewery. By the way, I’m from Manchester and when it got bought out many people stopped drinking it.
You ask ‘what is an open latter’.
Should be crystal clear … it is a latte with no lid on it, but somebody marked the cup ‘r’
LOL!
@Johnny Carbon Superhero
As I’m taking some vacation in the UK this summer I already bought the Good Beer Guide at the App store.
Surely looking forward to use it!
@Ting – now your talking – nothing like a pint or two or three of Boddingtons…
Hrrrmphh!
Everyone knows OK sauce is best
And here I thought the open latter was a position in the Kama Sutra.
Thanks for the explanation, Predrag.
Software patents is the issue here. No one should be able to stifle competition by patenting softare code it’s just stupid. I’m happy we don’t have that shit here on EU.
“Mommy, when can we open our Christmas presents?”. “Oh, we will open latter”
Sorry
This is pure FUD
New MDN headline;
‘Not happy with pissing off Flash users, Steve Jobs decides to piss off Open Source weenies as well.
Jobs speaks the truth and the open source weenies go ape. That says more abou them than about Jobs.
P.S. Thanks to Predrag for the clear summary of the “open” issue.
Boddingtons sucks arse, why do so many Americans think it is so great if your in the Uk try something different you might be pleasantly surprised.
Good beer guide app what a fantastic idea
Karlv,
“oftware patents is the issue here. No one should be able to stifle competition by patenting softare code it’s just stupid. I’m happy we don’t have that shit here on EU.”
Perhaps you should get some clue before acting the eurosnob part soooo well.
This weeks news:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/26/microsoft_german_fat_patent_appeal_upheld/
@Monger
Bravo! That’s ‘not a step’ clever.
@ Kitch: “Boddington blah blah blah… blah blah think it is so great blah blah…”
Great comment if you live just round the corner from The George & Dragon (like the one near the bridge over the Thames in Marlow).
But not applicable when the only English beer that is readily available is Boddington and it sits next to some weak local brews… or at best, a Caffreys (brewed by Guinness.) Mate, where I live, any bitter with a widget in it tastes good.
Or, to put it another way, which would you rather have: a Mac running System 9 or a PeeCee running Vista/Windows 7?
So Kitch, if you’re up for it, how about a pint of Spitfire or Speckled Hen? Served warm of course.
@ Lucida Grande: OK sauce?
OK sauce?
No way!
HP sauce!
HP sauce on a bacon sandwich. With a Boddingtons (or Spitfire or Speckled Hen) on the side.
Brings your taste buds back to life again!
@ Ting,
Took the wife out for dinner today and darned if they didn’t have Boddingtons on the beverage menu. I had a couple with my Chicken Cordon Bleu, which might sound like a strange combination, but it wasn’t bad. I’m not a big fan of bitter beer, but it’s so smooth and creamy that I didn’t mind. Our waitress said it’s really been popular. Thanks for the recommendation.
@ Sir Gill Bates “…it’s so smooth and creamy…”
Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
By the way, it’s “smooth and creamy” on account of the widget in the can.
Goes great with a curry!
My wife made a chutney, curry, cream cheese and dry mustard dip for crackers. Darn good.
Most articles I’ve seen on this topic is assuming Steve is threatening a lawsuit, when I’ve read rumors of exactly what Steve said, that someone is putting together a patent pool.
Open letters… not open lagers.
Hey Johnny CS
What do you think of these letters: CAMRA