“One of the hottest selling items this holiday season has been Apple’s iPod. But many stores ran out by early december [sic]… And many of us dont have 200 bucks for a music player. So should you consider a cheaper, off brand player? Kathy Grau, like many parents, found an iPod atop her daughters wish list this year. ‘My daughter wanted an MP3 player…She’d prefer an iPod…But shes 11 so shes gonna get an MP3 player.’ Why? Because Kathy learned there’s a big difference between the hot iPod and the not-so-hot mp3 players from Sony, RCA, and others. The price! While the red-hot iPod nano sells for 199 dollars…Kathy could grab an RCA Lyra for just 39 bucks. ‘You can find them as cheap as 39 dollars…they do the exact same thing.’ Here at hh gregg’s florence store… Digital music expert Chris Benzinger says if you can live without the iPod name …You’ll find lots of cheaper alternatives. Chris says this imitation iPod from Toshiba has the same bells and whistles for a lot less… So don’t waste your money,” John Matarese writes for WCPO in Cincinnati.
Full article here.
UPDATE: December 22, 2005, 11:17am:
Email from John Matarese:
As a responsible reporter, I feel it my duty to respond to the dozens and dozens of e-mails I have received since an excerpt of my recent iPod report was posted on MacDailyNews.
I would ask anyone to read the complete report on my webpage, which uses the term “Dont Waste Your Money” in its proper context. There is an enormous difference between what I wrote and what is being said third hand about my report.
The problem is that my “signature” line is being taken out of context by people who have never seen me on TV. Cincinnati’s ABC affiliate is NOT saying “don’t waste your money on a iPod” That is the name of my segment. Every report I do, every day, ends with “Dont’ Waste Your Money”.
It doesn’t matter if I am reporting on new Toyota cars, a law in Congress, or –heaven forbid –the latest problems with Microsoft’s Windows software (Yes, I have criticized Microsoft many times). Every single story ends with ” Don’t Waste Your Money.”
I did not tell people not to buy iPods.
As for iPod alternatives, I stand by my report that they are ideal to give to an 11 or 12 year old who is asking for a music player. Anyone with kids in 5th grade or Junior High knows that gadgets are often lost or stolen after 3 weeks. We’re talking about giving a pre-teen a $200 iPod, which they will shortly fill with $300 of downloaded iTunes music, and then possibly lose by February.
For parents looking for something to give an 11 year old (after all, an 11 year old girl was the original focus of the story, not a tech savvy Mac user), an inexpensive RCA Lyra or similar is a perfect gift. $39 to $79…and as it holds only 80 songs, no worry about running up a $500 music bill on Mom’s credit card.
I agree the iPod is “best in its class,” and that most other MP3 players don’t compare. But it may not be best for everyone.
John Matarese
WCPO TV
“Don’t Waste Your Money” reporter
Matarese obviously doesn’t get it and, based on this article, the only place in town for which he’s qualified to do news reporting is WKRP. You can buy a used Ford for a couple grand that, to the mentally challenged, will also seem to “do the same thing” as a new Lexus. You can also buy an off-brand TV, personal computer, circular saw, electric toothbrush, wine, or anything else; as always, you get what you pay for. Sheesh, it seems so obvious doesn’t it?
Of course, if Cincinnatians don’t buy iPods, they won’t be able to watch commercial-free ABC TV shows on them, would be less likely to use iTunes to purchase and watch such shows, and would instead be stuck with dinosaur WCPO’s broadcasts, thereby supporting this quality of reporting for a while longer. So, this article could be considered quite self-serving, to say the least.
In the end, we really only have one question: what the heck’s in the water supply in Cincinnati?
UPDATE: December 22, 2005, 11:17am: So, give your “11-year-old” an iPod shuffle ($99, 120 songs, with iTunes and iTunes Music Store compatibility). Regardless of the branding for these reports, to have the tagline and the headline say “Don’t Waste Your Money” leads readers and viewers to the inevitable conclusion, “don’t waste your money on a iPod” for your kid. Non-iPods don’t do “the exact same thing” as real iPods. To pretend otherwise and report that sticker price is the only difference does a disservice to WCPO’s viewers and readers. We highly recommend the sturdy and inexpensive iPod shuffle for kids, runners, etc. You and your kid get what you pay for.
[Note: Matarese’s reader feedback (the contents of which are included in the update that features his email above) was pulled yesterday because WCPO requested we remove a post by “John Matarese” as they said the post was not from Mr. Matarese. We pulled all such “Matarese” posts, as WCPO didn’t specify a particular post. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused.]
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Related articles:
Cincinnati NBC affiliate calls Apple iPod ‘potential cyber-smut porn device’ – November 30, 2005
Leading Catholic cardinal warns parents about buying iPods for Christmas due to porn – November 17, 2005
Cincinnati Enquirer: Keys to choosing digital audio player – August 31, 2005
all you’re doing is sending traffic to these sites and giving them more reason to write articles that are obviously just troll-like in nature.
thanks for beating on the idiots day-in and day-out in any event…always a good read.
I can buy boots at Payless; two pair for 40 bucks. Or I can buy a pair of Eccos for $300. I’ll stick with Ecco. You get what you pay for. Hey, that’s catchy.
cheap things are more expensive, amazingly most people in the Mp3 market realize that… will the PC market wake up?
Lots of people in Ohio pride themselves on NOT having the best stuff. It’s a reverse snoobishness– if you have really good stuff, you must be full of yourself or something. I left there about 10 years ago and now when I go back, it always surprises me. Not everyone is like that, of course, but it’s a very real phenomenon unfortunately.
Some competitors can match the iPod on price, but by cutting corners (using microdrives instead of flash, poor-quality components, etc.).
After all, it’s the overall experience that no one else can match. When you’re buying an iPod, you’re not just buying a music player, you’re buying a lifestyle.
I wonder how much M$ has been paying WCPO-TV and their owner E.W. Scripps? Only in “Censor-nati”…
MDN MW: “month”, as in sales of competitors are shrinking by the month
I went to school at University of Cincinnati in the mid-80’s. It has just gotten worse since I graduated. the University was great but everything else in the town felt like it was years behind the rest of the country. ACK! If anyone is still looking for iPod Nano, this place in Philly has them in stock: http://bundycomputer.com/ It’s a small apple reseller. We do not have an Apple Store in Center City but we do have two resellers. Bundy still has white and black 2gig untis and white 4gig units. They also have white and black in the 30 and 60gig sizes.
“they do the exact same thing”
So, I phoned John Matarese’s surgeon. I convinced him that since that loose thread coming off his sweater does the exact same thing as sutures that he could save a significant amount of money using the cheaper alternative. Enjoy that POS MP3 player in post-op John. Idiot.
just because the iPod is rather expensive for an 11-year-old’s toy doesn’t mean the writer should say “don’t waste your money” to everyone. while i agree that i personally would never get an iPod for a child, making a general statement like that is ridiculous.
Well…
This IS the city that had Jerry Springer as Mayor is it not?
talk about appealing to the Least Common Denominator!
i love that old saying…
with the ipod… u only cry once
The NEW Creative Vision:M is an example of something crappier costing _more_ …
Apple is enjoying the economies of scale that come with being the market leader. This means they can negotiate flash, click wheel, and other parts at prefered rates – just like Wal-Mart et al. So Apple can make their players cost just enough to make a good profit while making it difficult for competirion to undercut them on price (hence the Vision:M is 10% _more_ and iPod).
Plus, 80% of the market is a key saturation point and every additional % is more and more difficult to attract because what has worked for the previous 80% hasn’t yet for the remaining 20%. To attract the super price sensitive 20% they don’t have, Apple would have to slash margins which could actually reduce their overall net income on iPod sales.
“Well…
This IS the city that had Jerry Springer as Mayor is it not?”
Yup, and he also anchored the news on WLWT-TV 5 (the NBC affiliate) for many years….the station was actually in FIRST PLACE during that timeframe.
MDN MW: “use”: as the city of Cincinnati could use a reality check
Who cares let people buy whatever they want. I like my iPods and iTunes, some people may want a cheap alternative. Thats them not me. To echo someone else, you get what you pay for.
nothing good is cheap
cheap cars
cheap girls
cheap bear
cheap food
cheap friends
cheap computers
cheap paint
cheap haircuts
the list goes on.
MDN has it right, you DO get what you pay for. When people tell me how cheap they got their Windows box, the next thing they tell me is about all the trouble they are having with it.
Most of these people think that Macs are too expensive, are toys, are good for graphics and vid, are “not the standard” and on and on and on.
They make up and rationalize all these excuses and reasons of sticking with their ugly, cheap boxes running a third rate OS that cost them much more in the long run. It’s just crazy.
There is no other consumer product in human history that makes it’s users more miserable, causes more downtime or gives more headaches than Windows.
People that use Windows like to brag about all the applications they can run, but Mac users speak about an elegant, easy-to-use total user experience…and a great industrial design.
Macs aren’t expensive and you CAN get used and refurbished machines in a thousand places, so these people really don’t have an excuse.
Now John Matarese has the right to his opinion, the right to express it as well.
However, that does not make him correct in his opinion.
I will get down off my soapbox now.
There are some people that cannot afford to give a $200-400, so the $39 whatsitcalled is an alternative for them.
The good: they get to give their kids something they want. The kids also get to learn first hand that the $39 is inferior to the iPod. Next year, they’ll ask for an iPod again.
Gonna be a lot of unhappy kids christmas morning in Cincinatti. Not to mention their parents when they try and jump through the hoops to get music on the things.
The Cincinnati Guide to Cheaper Alternatives:
Toilet? No way. Bucket.
Gun? Nope. Throw your bullets really hard.
Bed? Sheesh. We’re not made of money. Floor.
Fruit? WHAT? You think those things grow on trees? Wax fakes stolen from Wal-Mart.
Wife? Huh-uh. Canister vacuum cleaner. MUCH cheaper in the long run.
Music? You can hum can’t you?
Computer? A what? Heh heh, you said “puter.”
Freedom? NOW you’re talking. You said “free.”
</rant>
“Cool kids have iPods.”
Windows users take great pride in maintaining, fixing, and upgrading their computers. When I see the “Start something” campaign for windows I just see people starting to fix their computers all the time (while a great sense of enjoyment).
Mac users take great pride in showing what all they have done on their computers. They like to show the DVD the made of their vacation pictures, the song they made in Garageband, the home movie they made of the footage they shot during the holidays, the playlist they made for their iPod in iTunes, or all the work they managed to complete because they didn’t have to spend all their time fixing their machine.
They are both machines…. it’s just that one of them let’s you do something other than constant maintenance.
So, MDN is basically saying that someone that buys a used Ford because it can successfully transport them to desired destinations (like a Lexus or any other brand) is mentally challenged. Great.
While it’s certainly true that in many intances you actually do get what you pay for, many of you ignorant sheep apparently don’t grasp that not everyone needs/wants the same features.
Do you seriously think all parents are going to care whether their young children can watch TV shows on their mp3 players much less be willing to spend an extra $150 for that unwanted feature?
Using the MDN logic, everyone here should only be using the most expensive PowerMacs because, you know, anything less is stupid and anyone willing to spend a thousand dollars on a less capable iMac is obviously mentally challenged.
Before writing your ignorant posts, try to remember that some people only want to spend a few bucks on an mp3 player with absolutely no desire to watch videos, pictures, or buy online songs.
There is nothing worse than a “cheap bear”.
>this imitation iPod from Toshiba has the same bells
>and whistles for a lot less
surely the thing about the ipod is that bells and whistles are optional extras…
Amazingly, there are other things to use an iPod for
for $199 (from the Apple comparison chart)
“…iPod-viewable photos, contacts, calendars, notes and file storage”
and
“… Free laser engraving”
And then theres the music
The other MP3 players do what?
Thank you hmmm. It took 21 responses in this thread before someone actually hit the nail on the head. Of course you get what you pay for, and of course the iPod is the superior mp3 player on the market. That doesn’t mean that everyone has to go out and shell out $199, just because, as some nimrod said, with an iPod “you’re buying a lifestyle”.
As much as I love all of my Apple gear I don’t feel the need to ram my “lifestyle” down someone else’s throat, especially if they might have more important things to spend money on.
Magic word “believe”, as in don’t believe that buying apple automatically makes you superior to everyone esle.
hmmm,
MDN said that you’d have to be mentally challenged to think that a used Ford “does the same thing” as a new Lexus. To do so would be ignorant of the Lexus’ features and quality of experience over the Ford. MDN is correct, of course. Your amateurish attempt to twist MDN’s words didn’t work.
If you’re “MP3 Player” is memory upgradeable you will spend more getting it up to the iPod’s memory capacity than if you just buy an iPod in the first place. Kid’s already know what us older folks have finely begun to admit to ourselves – There’s never enough memory.
What gets me about articles like this is the verbal slamming: “…don’t waste your money…”. Come on, give me a freakin break. Its like the iPod’s sole purpose is to make us working class folks feel fiscally inferior? I think not.
Look at the iPod from the stand point of value point-per-dollar, and you find that any of the iPod models are an extremely good buy for the money compared to the memory and features of ANY other competing product out there today.
If you don’t feel like buying an iPod than don’t.
Merry Trashmas to you too.
i grew up there. the sports team sucks (go bengals tho, finally after decade long incompetance) and every one there are backward and inbred. it is a horrible horrible state and I am glad to be out of cleveland. What a wretched place.
Living here in Kansas is much better.
John Matarese is a total moron. He does NO RESEARCH on anything he reports. I’ve had it out with him via email on other Apple products.
He did a report on the Cube a few years ago and joked in his ever present dorky humor “don’t buy this bad Apple” but he failed to give a reason.
When I emailed him and confronted him on it, he was a total assh*le when he replied.
So by all means, fill this idiots in box with complaints.
“what the heck’s in the water supply in Cincinnati?”
I know, it’s a total embarrassment. I drink bottled water here.
furthermore, the Apple store in Cincinati has plenty of iPods in stock.
Those other players aren’t any cheaper anyway. And how much music can you play on a 32mb mp3 player?
The iPod is worth every penny and if you can’t afford $200.00 you should just save your money until you can. If you do buy one of those cheap players you will in fact have wasted your money and will kick yourself for listening to this idiot!
If all you need is basic transportation, then the used Ford is just fine.
Clearly, MDN does not have children around 11 year of age (either than or they are that age). Kids that age lose things, break things, give things away. So the point is pretty well made.
And, not everyone has $200 of disposable cash to spend for an MP3 player when there are other real needs to bringing up a kid.
Spoiling kids because Steve Jobs says so isn’t something that I listen to.
Truth Detector,
The point that you obviously did not grasp is that everyone has their own opinion of what a product is intended for. Features may be rendered completely irrelevant depending on the desired use. For someone that is merely looking for a method to get from point A to point B, a used Ford does exactly the same thing as a new Lexus. For someone that wants to listen to mp3s without the need for pictures, movies, online store, and synchronization, many music players are essentially the same as the iPod.
Your amateurish attempt to impose your perspectives and opinions onto everyone else is ignorant and irresponsible.
In Apple’s case, they really are a better value in the long run, sometimes they match or beat competitor’s prices even. Often their products aren’t That much more.
to: hmmm
What this article did was point out that not everyone understands the “total user experience” theory. Sure you can buy a cheaper mp3 alternative and it WILL work, but it will just be a pain in the ass along the way. If they don’t know any better, they will think it’s the bees knees.
A bitter parent who might be sick of the holidays or may not be up on all the newest technology may just think that the iPod is just a big joke and stupid people are paying way too much for them. In this case, that is certainly not true. The iPod, as far as I can tell, offers the best total user experience. From the time you bring it home and open it (which some people find quite satisfying, actually – Apple has this down perfectly), upload songs, and take it out into the world to listen to, it offers an ease of use that is unmatched by the rivals.
As for the Ford/Lexus analogy, I really like that. Why? Because I drove 2000 miles across the country and back. I’ve never seen more Fords broke down in my life. Sure it will get you there for a while, but the experience will be pretty, pretty, pretty crappy. (CYE, anyone?)
I, however, don’t drive a Lexus. I drive a luxury Toyota, a Lexus without the Lexus name.
zupchuck,
An Apple iPod shuffle is $99, not $200. That’s what I bought my 4-year-old to use to listen to children’s tunes in the car.
Poor Kathy.
Besides having a moron for a father, she will be waiting for hours on Christmas day for her moron father to load 512k of WMA files on her new $19 RCA Lyca or Lycra or whatever they call it. When she hears how crappy it sounds and discovers how difficult it is to find her favorite song, she will probably be crying herself to sleep that night.
to hmmm
From the article “You can find them as cheap as 39 dollars…they do the exact same thing…”
Read the article and do some research
For $199 you get much more, but John Matarese doesn’t say what else the iPod is capable of for the price. His article seems to say, that the iPod is just an MP3 player. If thats all it was, it wouldn’t be $199.
And yes, if an MP3 player is all you want, well get the cheaper one
g,
I’m sure your Toyota cost less than a Lexus, but I’m sure you’re happy with it none the less and would probably not like to be considered mentally challenged for liking a product that you deem as useful for your needs even though a more expensive product can do more.
And guys, I’m not saying that the iPod is not a good deal. Just let other people live their own lives, not the ones that you think they should live.
gypsy,
Yes, the article was poorly written, but that does not mean that everyone that chooses to not buy an iPod deserves the harsh criticism that a person usually finds here at MDN. (I own two iPods and would not dream of buying anything else, but I also respect other people’s opinions)
my dad is a cheap ass
buy me an ipod you bloody basturd!
to: hmmm
“I’m sure your Toyota cost less than a Lexus, but I’m sure you’re happy with it none the less and would probably not like to be considered mentally challenged for liking a product that you deem as useful for your needs even though a more expensive product can do more.”
Maybe the humor was lost on some people. Lexus is made by Toyota.
In this case, I would liken the analogy to the iMac and the top-shelf PowerMac.
11 year olds brandishing iPods?
Seems to me to be a muggers charter. Not sure I’d let my 11 year old daughter out with an iPod – I’d also buy the $39 model…
Zupchuck said,
“Spoiling kids because Steve Jobs says so isn’t something that I listen to.”
When did he say this?
Poor kid, her mother buys her the wrong cloths, the wrong shoes, the wrong coat and now she has to face her friends and classmates using the wrong MP3 player.
She will probably run away from home before she’s sixteen.
g,
I am well aware of the connection between Toyota and Lexus, just not of the supposed humor that you speak of. Did it ever occur to you to wonder why car manufacturers produce different models with different price points? Every car buyer needs the vehicle to do at least one thing, drive, which all of them do. Yes, they are all the same in that respect.
I emailed this knob licker about his article and was polite. I bet 10 bucks i get a dirty email back.
g,
Using the iMac/PowerMac analogy, which I mentioned much earlier, if your 11 year old kid asks for her own personal computer, would you be more inclined to buy her a $3000 PowerMac or a $1000 iMac?
Ahem. First, a Toyota is a Lexus, or more exactly, Lexus is a division of Toyota Motors. Their engineering is the same, their development of motors, combustion, timing, etc is the same, more leather interiors in Lexus. Lexus was the premium brand developed because people in the USA wouldn’t accept paying 50K for something that said Toyota on the hood, unlike car buyers in Asia.
Second, this TV guy obviously doesn’t do his homework. A reconditioned shuffle can be purchased from Apple for the price of $79.00. Now we all want a deal, but I personally don’t think $79 is the worst price in the world for the best MP3 player technology in the world. That dolt of a reporter doesn’t know that any Ipod is merely the front-end to the marvelous music system designed by those clever folks in Cupertino and points elsewhere. Now maybe Kathy Grau’s 11 year old daughter isn’t ready for the responsibility of the ipod. That isn’t my call. But if she were my own, I would have no problems forking out the bucks for an Ipod for her.
hmmm
Its not that they decided to not buy an iPod, but that the article and I believe the reasoning for criticizing the iPods price is based on incomplete research and inaccurate feature comparisons of what the price actually incorporates.
i am 12 and i would totally PUKE if my parents got me some inferoir mp3 player.
if anyone wants to chat with me, my aol im screename is XoFoDoFo13244. We can trade musik or sumthin
Actually I dont own an iPod, although I’m thinking of getting the shuffle for work. I have a woodworking shop (I work for myself) and I wouldn’t mind having a string of music I like playing. I really dont need the song selection.
I’m an northeast Ohio native but I’ve lived in Cincinnati for 12 years now. It’s a decent town if a bit uptight and overly self concerned. In my view John Matarese is a poodle. Cinti has a long popular consumer advocate on its CBS affiliate and Matarese has to pump himself to compete. If you guys could see and hear how he wags his schoolmarm finger at the camera when he scolds with his “Don’t waste your money” catchphrase, you’d be chuckling at him for the noob he is. Some days he just reads copy from Consumer Reports. ’nuff said.
BTW, my water is filtered and conditioned.
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hmmm,
I don’t think you are understanding what I’m saying. I see what you are saying…yes, a Ford will get you from place to place for a while, but the experience will be crappy.
I wouldn’t buy an 11 year old an iMac, I’d buy them the Mac mini. I’d have the iMac!
As for an mp3 player, I’d get them a cheap shuffle and tie a brick on to it so they don’t lose it….
Now, for the car analogy. How’s this:
Ford=crappy no name Windows box
Toyota=iMac G5
Lexus=Top of the line PowerMac
I’m saying that the iMac and PowerMac are both fine products, hardly in the same ballpark as a Windows, especially a crappy Windows box.
I hate Ford and I don’t even consider them in the same realm as Toyota or Lexus, except that they are in fact automobiles. If you drive a Ford or whatever and are happy with it, that’s fine. But I’ll bet money that my Toyota is better quality in the long haul.
A friend of mine who drives a big honkin’ Expedition said that he thought my car was better and would last longer, even though he did like his car.
A family friend is in an ironic position: they own a Ford Expedition and a late 90’s Lexus. They hate the Expedition. I’ve ridden in it, as well as an Explorer, and I hated them both. Someone would have to pay me to drive something like that.
Anyway, the point is, yes, these are the same things, computers or cars or mp3 players, but they are NOT all the same.
“concerned kid’ looks to me like a fed trolling for sexual predators
Judge Bork,
So why don’t you drop a CD of children’s tunes in the car CD player and sing along with them? You don’t want to be annoyed, so you buy a $100 pacifier?
Thank you, point made.
And to “zupchuck’s kids” – if you can still hear me (becuase you aren’t deaf from wearing earphone 24×7 from age 4) by the time you’re in high school, buy your own <insert must-have item here> with your own money.
g,
Steve Jobs says so every time he puts an iPod commercial on TV, makes a keynote presentation at a quarterly meeting or MW Expo. He’s a great saleman because he makes your kids want what ever other kids with parents who placate their kids with the coolest thing because they feel guilty.
hammer:
Thanks! I’m still chuckling over “knob licker!”
didn’t know I could use the internet, did you “daddy?”
i got news for you. mom told me who the real dad is.
“i’ll never tell…”
g,
Actually, I don’t think you quite understand what you’re saying. Why might you buy an iMac instead of a PowerMac? Well, because they essentially do the same thing, and for your needs, the features that the PowerMac offers may not be that important to you. And for an 11 year old, a Mac mini would do the same thing for her as would an iMac or PowerMac. The point here is that for some people a lower end model will do essentially the same thing as a higher end model for.
Switch over to the mp3 player comparison. For someone that has perhaps 15 songs that they want to play without using a bulky CD player, a cheap $20 player is going to do the same thing as a $200 nano. Yes, there are other things that can be done with the nano, but that doesn’t matter to the 11 year old, or the parent that has to shell out the money.
Ah, but you say the experience will not be the same. Perhaps, but the music will still sound the same, right? Maybe that’s all that’s important to the parent that’s on a limited budget.
breaking news
an offbrand (already announced they were quiting the business) 128Mb mp3 player is cheaper the a top brand 2GB mp3 player.
Wow thats just amazing
Buy three POS players for more $$ than ONE iPOD will last you during the same time period?
Penny wise and Dollar Stupid is the person who takes this guy’s advice.
” many of you ignorant sheep apparently don’t grasp that not everyone needs/wants the same features.”
Is being able to use something easily, or at all, a feature?
I can just hear the conversation
“OOh daddy, its a … Lyra!?!, but i wanted an iPod!”
“oh those iPods are way overrated. Here, this works just as well.”
“well, ok, lets put some music on it”
“Ok, lets see….”
(4 hours later)
“Well, i couldnt get music on it, but what the heck, you got it didnt you.”
Yeah, I worked with that lunkhead Materese. He was always stoned. Ironicaly, that “Don’t Waste Your Money” putz still owes me money for a dime bag.
“hammer:
Thanks! I’m still chuckling over “knob licker!””
I call em like I see em and this guy is king of the knob lickers.
I got into a virtual email shouting match with this guy a few years ago over his moronic review of Apple’s Cube. He couldnt justify anything he said in his three sentence “report”, he just wanted to try and be clever by using the phrase “don’t buy this bad Apple.”
I emailed him nicely and challenged him on what he said and in response I got a scathing email about how much better he was than the competing station’s consumer reporter and still didnt give me basis for his statements. After two days of emailing, he finally saw the error of his ways and caved.
I mean after all someone like him wouldnt want facts to get in the way of a great storyline.
Even the local rock station went on for years lampooning this guy.
to: hmmm
I shouldn’t have signed up to this thread by email! I feel compelled to write back.
Look, I get what you’re saying. However, I don’t understand how you can even be on a Macintosh website saying this. The whole thing about the Mac is that it offers an unsurpassed user experience. So does the iPod.
That user experience is completely DIFFERENT than another mp3 player or Windows.
You are now comparing iMacs to PowerMacs. They are essentially the same thing, but the iMac doesn’t have the muscle the PowerMac has. They can both have Bluetooth, USB, Firewire, Airport, etc. BOTH of those products are significantly different than a Dell or Gateway or whatever. It’s like comparing a top of the line V6 to a V8. They are built with the same quality and craftsmanship, just one has more power. Oh god, another analogy.
I don’t know how else to explain it. It’s basically about the human interface part of it.
If you want to put 15 songs on an mp3 player instead of burning a CD, well, then I can’t help you. Anyone who would buy an mp3 player to play 15 songs…well, what can I say.
I live in Cincinnati. It is a shame that we continue to get bad press at the hand of a few idiots. John Matarese sometimes has some good things to say, but when I was listening to this, I nearly tossed my lunch. I do as well as my wife, sister-n-law, nieces, nephew all own ipods, as well as Macs. Just remember Cincinnati has a good Mac following. We do have an Apple Store. I don’t think that it’s fair to be critical of the whole town based on Matarese’s opinion. Please keep your comments to him only. Thanks.
g,
and the whole thing about my argument is that the whole user experience is kind of a moot point when you’re dealing with an 11 year old whose primary interest is to listen to songs, which any mp3 player will allow you to do.
I am not comparing an iMac to a Dell. My point, which I will reiterate yet again, is that there are different models for different types of users, and your choice depends on what you need. Now if you extend that point out just a bit further, you will see what I mean about mp3 players. I am not saying that any mp3 player is the same as an iPod in any respect except that it plays music, and for some people, that is all that is necessary, especially when they may be on a tight budget for a child that really doesn’t know the difference. This has nothing to do with Apple versus Windows or anything like that.
hammer,
It’s really not that hard to put songs onto an mp3 player without iTunes. Just ask any of the Windows users that bought an early iPod and had to sync using musicmatch.
RCA’s own website lists the Lyra sell price as $399, NOT $39.
The bloody thing is actually much more expensive than a roughly comparable iPod, not cheaper.
Nothing as easy as doing a Google search.
Even for a would-be journalist.
“hammer,
It’s really not that hard to put songs onto an mp3 player without iTunes. Just ask any of the Windows users that bought an early iPod and had to sync using musicmatch.”
Oh yeah? Well, then how come I had to hold the hands of countless Windows users who complained of not being able to get it to sync with Musicmatch? Maybe it was for you, but certainly not for a lot of people. I know. First hand.
GD:
I realize that there are about fourteen decent, intelligent people in Cincinnati. Just kidding and having some fun. All towns and cities have their fair share of village idiots. Some just like to remind us by writing something inane. :o)
Maybe it had to do with finding the correct firewire card. Either way, I know a lot of people that have not had problems.
Hey John,
Let me be the first to point out that if you “lose” your iPod, you didn’t lose any of the music that is loaded on it, it all resides on the computer that you synced with your iPod
Have you actually ever used an iPod, John?
If this 11 year old child (or even her parents) can figure out the extremely confusing software that comes with the player, we have to keep something in mind: isn’t the 11 year old just going to put Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake on her off-brand mp3 player? Isn’t that where those artists belong?
mw: fear. As in “I fear for her parents when they figure out that no one, especially an 11 year old, knows how to put music onto a third party player in less than three hours”
a) clearly he has no idea what he’s talkinga bout and b) I’m sure he was ordered by his boss to dis the ipod since local affliates think people will stop watching TV and just buy ipod TV shows (ABC affliate).
This is a paraphrase, but Mark Twain said something like: When the world comes to an end I’m moving to Cincinnati because things happen there ten years later than anywhere else.
I don’t drive a lexus. Many others don’t drive lexuses. I drive something cheaper. And i like it, leaves me money for more important things like holidays. Same goes for mp3 players. You don’t need lexus quality. Mp3 players are not that important, please save your money for more important things.
“This is a paraphrase, but Mark Twain said something like: When the world comes to an end I’m moving to Cincinnati because things happen there ten years later than anywhere else.”
But we did have one of the first Apple stores. 16th overall i think.
Hey Kathy:
Glad makes cheaper condoms.
Wow, I’m not schizo. Or a doppleganger of myself.
But, shall ‘I’ return?
Here’s something to think about.
Anyone buying those $39 mp3 players as gifts may find that those mp3 players won’t do anything at all, if the gift recipients have Macs and the player comes without Mac software.
ahhhhhhhhh, the mdn take and its elitist analogies, especially of the car variety…let’s be surprised when people think all mac users are complete jerks.
zzz…
man. i love my ipod and all, but i would never buy a kid one.. kids toys/gifts are abused and lost on a consistent basis.
i find nothing wrong with the dude’s opinion or article.
don’t waste your money.
Gee, a day later MDN updates this page, doesn’t acknowledge they pulled John’s post, or that many readers inquired as to why the post was pulled.
So, MDN “updates” the page with the e-mail to cover it’s arse. Did John or his employer pressure you a little?
If an update was needed, MDN should have created a new page with John’s letter and acknowledged his post was pulled (but duplicated in the new page) to fairly address the questions about pulling posts.
About getting what you pay for – if your 11 year old kid looses your $100 or $200 or more iPod, do you mind replacing it more than if it were a $40 player? In this case, you get what you deserve. Clearly, MDN doesn’t get it when dealing with kids (because perhaps they are?).
Both of my kids (under 10) have iPod shuffles. They work great and we’ve had no absolutely no problems plus they’re completely compatible with my wife’s and my iPods and iTunes setups. I can also give the kids iTunes Gift Certificates for their birthdays, etc. as presents.
MDN’s comments mostly deliver bigoted, elitist – but also downright dumb propaganda. According to these comments, Apple can do no wrong, and if you don’t worship at Apple’s consumer altar, you’re automatically deemed a loser. I’m not wasting my time on this site anymore.
(Btw, I’ve been a Macintosh user for 15 years now, but the attitude on this site is giving us a bad name.)
zupchuck obviously you didnt read the entire update. MDN did indeed acknowledge pulling posts by “John Matarese” on the request of his employer since he was not the one who wrote the posts. You are so damn angry maybe it’s YOU who has an agenda.
An FWIW someone needs to tell John that loading the iPod with 300$ worth of music, only to have it stolen does not consitute a loss of that $300.
zupchuck:
You missed something important in your haste to criticize. MDN wrote above:
[Note: Matarese’s reader feedback (the contents of which are included in the update that features his email above) was pulled yesterday because WCPO requested we remove a post by “John Matarese” as they said the post was not from Mr. Matarese. We pulled all such “Matarese” posts, as WCPO didn’t specify a particular post. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused.]
Will zupchuck acknowledge his error and apologize to MDN?
To be fair, MDN is still a bit misleading in their “Note:”
“Matarese’s reader feedback (the contents of which are included in the update that features his email above) was pulled yesterday because WCPO requested we remove a post by “John Matarese” as they said the post was not from Mr. Matarese. We pulled all such “Matarese” posts, as WCPO didn’t specify a particular post.”
They seem to imply that they pulled all Materese posts at the same time when in reality, they pulled the one legitimate Materese post and left the other obviously fake Materese posts (which they finally pulled today).
And I’m also a bit skeptical about the WCPO actually making any such request.
my daughter is 11 years.. and she has saved her own money and bought an iPod shuffle when they came out last spring… she is very happy with it and takes great care of her iPod!
my 10 year old son saved his own money to buy a PSP when they came out in september her in denmark… he takes great care of it by him self…
does the writer of the story refer to spoiled and ingnorent kids that are so stupid, they can not take care of anything at all because they have stupid parents that can’t educate their children to take care of precious things by them selves?
or is he really telling us that EVERYBODY is stupid… the ones who buy the iPods AND the parents that give their children gifts they would like to have AND the kids who are not capable of anything – not even taking care of an iPod they want so dearly?
why do i keep thinking of the word “retard”?
my kids must be geniuses!
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petervrdk,
No, he is referring to children of parents that are not fortunate enough to have the disposable income that is necessary to spend a premium amount for unnecessary products or features. No matter how much better the shuffle may be to some people, it still costs twice as much as others that aren’t as refined. To some people, the dollar savings is more important than the extra 30 seconds it may take to sync the music.
Gee, hard to say who knows less about what, MDN and its readers on kids or Windows sycophants on Macs… ummmmm
Both like to speak authoritatively on subjects they don’t know jack about.
Re-‘As for iPod alternatives, I stand by my report that they are ideal to give to an 11 or 12 year old who is asking for a music player. Anyone with kids in 5th grade or Junior High knows that gadgets are often lost or stolen after 3 weeks. We’re talking about giving a pre-teen a $200 iPod, which they will shortly fill with $300 of downloaded iTunes music, and then possibly lose by February.
For parents looking for something to give an 11 year old (after all, an 11 year old girl was the original focus of the story, not a tech savvy Mac user), an inexpensive RCA Lyra or similar is a perfect gift. $39 to $79…and as it holds only 80 songs, no worry about running up a $500 music bill on Mom’s credit card.’
1-Apple will have sold approx. 40 million iPods by the time December is over.
2-Apple has sold less than 1 billion songs.
If you do the math, you will find that most iPod owners have filled their music players with their own music from CDs, etc
Bhorg is about right; prudence is certainy called for in the case of all children-related gifts. However, there’s more to be considered here.
We’re writing about the iPod here, the number one, hottest item on so many wish lists. There is no other item like the iPod but there are any number of wanna be devices, none of which carries a desire remotely equivalent to that of the iPod.
Prudence, when considered adequately, requires the consideration of placing the child in a second or third class cohort. The child will know the difference as the present is opened. It will be a moment to never be forgotten, of receiving something so crudely different from what was expected.
There’s a difference in being Santa and bring Scroogilicious!
Judge Bork,
I didn’t miss it. There was extra explanation when I posted at 11:42am. There was still the masquarading Matarese post with his e-mail address in it.
MDN is covering its tracks.
In my haste, I missed a “no”. Corrected version:
Judge Bork,
I didn’t miss it. There was [no] extra explanation when I posted at 11:42am. There was still the masquarading Matarese post with his e-mail address in it.
MDN is covering its tracks.
Can anyone say “Mac Lynch Mob”
“MDN is covering its tracks.”
Perhaps we need a Congressional investigation. Since they seem to like spending time ignoring the issues that do matter and poking their noses in ones that don’t, this would be right up their alley.
Perhaps MDN is a terrorist organization (gasps).
“Perhaps we need a Congressional investigation[?]” – good one!
============================ aside =============
But seriously, if John Matarese (or anyone else) saved copies of this page as it has changed and morphed over the last day or so, legal remedies could be considered.
More than one reader has noted that the original, signed post by John Matarese was pulled, and the masquarading (and derogatory) posts took nearly a day later to get pulled. That shows very poor editorial judgement at a minimum.
It all well and good to poke fun and parody, it’s an age old tradition. But if you play fast and loose long enough, you eventually get burned. Somehow, I think most targets of MDN’s ire have enough resources to make its operators squirm more than a little. Remember the hosting server woes back about a year ago?
Do I have an agenda as someone asked? Yes. Perhaps returning a little responsibility and consistency in the “reporting” and commentar and little less revisionist history.
No one needs to be fat to be offended by the Glaser comments. Or have a balding head, or any number of other personal, derogatory facets to their being (as considered by other posters) to be offended.
I think some people might ask – Have you no shame?
Regardless of whether you believe that you should buy an iPod for a young child, there are still are at least two arguments in the original article and the attempt to justify the original article (which may or may not be the work of the author)
1. The author implies that other cheaper MP3 players do exactly the same thing as an iPod, except they cost less. This is not true, they do not function the same and are not as easy to load or use. This is one of the reasons that the iPod is very popular, but was not mentioned in the article.
2. In the justification, it is implied that if you lose the iPod, you also lose all of the music that is loaded in the iPod. This is also not true, the music also resides on the computer used to sync to the iPod. If you believe otherwise, you clearly have never used an iPod and you have no idea what you are talking about.
MDN word: work
Journalism is hard work. Spouting BS is easy.
I think my point was, it’s a frickin mac news site. Who cares. There are way more important issues to deal with in the world. No one seems to give a crap that their civil liberties have been run through the shredder and 9-11 been used as a pretense to justify it.
I’ll leave you with this quote:
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
-Hermann Goering at the Nazi war trials
There you go again MDN. I think your ignorant, bias takes on articles create more Mac haters than Matarese ever could. Just give us the news and shut the fsck up about it.
He can say whatever he wants… but that he has to have a “tag line” is the epitome of why I hate TV news reporters.
I’ve seen the competition, there not cheep. They cost buko-bucks!
The title of the article should have been:
iPod alternatives: if you want to go cheap.
I did get a very thoughtful reply from John today (for real). His tagline might have confused things and may be silly, but he did say that he learned a great deal in the last 24 hours. Unfortunately, one thing he learned was that there are a lot of jerks in the Mac community, mostly from this board. So criticising MDN for any potential anti-Apple bias really is misplaced. The users of this board did more than MDN could ever do make a terrible impression on this guy – a cosumer reporter BTW. It’s exactly this kind of arrogant behavior that still haunts Apple to this day from its first glory era, lets not taint this one in the same way.
I think one thing Mac users need to learn, and people need to learn in general is there is no need to be hateful and mean spirited. Those who are willing to listen to you will be turned off forever and those who are already adamant against you just get further away. Even the most ardent Mac haters can be swayed with some thoughtful and very positive conversation. I know, I’ve seen it first hand. Lots of it. A whole lot of it.
Those of you who claim to be Apple loyalists, who continue this negative behavior should know that all you are doing is hurting the company. Learn some tact or keep your mouth shut. And if someone insults you for your platform choice and you get offended by it then perhaps you should consider not hanging so much of your self esteem on your choice of computers.
And remember, you’ll always catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.
member
Thank you, Hammer. That was a very well written and thoughtful post.
I think MDN has taken things a bit far on this one. Don’t get me wrong, I own an iPod, a Powerbook, and a mac mini, and they are all fantastic products, but come on. When you read John Matarese’s full article, as well as his email, his arguements make sense, especially when the MDN recommended Shuffle is sold out at most stores in Cincinnati. I know this because I live in Cincinnati and have yet to find a store that has a Shuffle in stock. Some people are unwilling to spend $200 plus on certain things, regardless of how superior they may be, and that is their decision to make. I think it is unfair and unprofessional for MDN to claim it is “where mac news comes first” and to provide commentary that seems to be inflammatory and insult the individual who wrote the article. Yes, it may be just commentary, but as a professional news site, that commentary does influence reader opinions, intentional or not. The assumptions of Mr. Matarese’s professional abilities and qualifications are completely unfair and unnecessary. This is not the first time it has happened either. MDN should be a bit more respectful of its peers and more responsible with the influence it has over its readers.
Who cares. This brand favoritism is ridiculous. If someone wants to save money and get an inferior product, let them.
But hey, the RCA Lyra has a screen and costs $39. The $100 iPod shuffle sure doesn’t!
Hammer writes: “one thing he learned was that there are a lot of jerks in the Mac community, mostly from this board.”
That is the understatement of the year.
If the average poster here had half as much skill in using their brains as they do in using their typing skills, it would be a miracle.
MDN word “chance” as in: Not much chance of that.
Yeah, brent. 120 megs for $39. How does that compare to 512 megs? The iPod Shuffle is a heck of a lot cheaper for the amount of space as that lame MP3 player.
Life is too short to buy only cheap crap.
How many RCA Lyras to you have to buy before you spend more than the low-end Shuffle if your kid is typical and loses things now and then.
And for those who say the iPod does more – the Shuffle can play videos, game, slide shows? Wow! I thought the shuffle just played music.
from reading all this, you guys sound like a bunch of high school kids…
Right on Hammer. I always write a nice, but on-topic reply to these people, trying in ernest to point out what I think are flaws in their pieces.
When a Mac user acts like an ass – all of us look like asses – so KNOCK IT OFF.
Scott
John Matarese sounds like the voice of reason compared to some of the “defend-apple-against-any-slights, percieved-or-real” types found here.
I love Apple as much as the next guy having 3 Macs and 4 ipods in the house but sheeze – give it a rest
Just keep in mind, the internet is the perfect place for spineless wienies to spout off about anything they want, anonymously. The can be as mean spirited and venemous as they want, and are unlikely to ever be confronted for it.
Hammer is right that these losers hiding behind their keyboards give all real Apple fans a bad name, and MDN does a lot to encourage it.
Magic word “Get”, as in these twerps don’t get it.
“Anyone with kids in 5th grade or Junior High knows that gadgets are often lost or stolen after 3 weeks.”
Must be a statement about the United States I guess they have no respect for anything I am gathering.
He might be right, a $39 mp3 player probably won’t get stolen, used or appreciated.
Money to burn.
MESSAGE TO MDN:
MDN is a platform for you to consolidate news on all things Apple.
It is NOT and SHOULD NOT be a platform for your flaming and bashing anyone who says anything anti-Apple. Please take the higher path and don’t make personal attacks on them — rather, just spend time focusing on the issues. MDN, you are compromising your credibility and integrity as a news source.
Minty, don’t waste your breath. You are implying that MDN is a credible news source in the first place, which clearly isn’t the case here.
Magic word “not”, as in MDN is a credible news source, NOT!!!
Can we vote ohio out of the union?
They’re just a bunch of low brow neocon hillbillies anyway.
That’s right, get a non iPod alternative mp3 player. Save some coin. It does the same thing right?
Does this guy have any recolection of what it was like being a kid? How the hot ticket items were wanted by everyone?
Apparently not. So go ahead, get the mp3 player. Forgo the iPod. It’s too expensive and the cheaper one is just as cool right?
You’re child will secretly hate you for it.
Cheers to MDN, countering this obvious FUD campaign by this writer.
There are all sorts of iPods and price levels, and one thing to rememeber is if it’s a MP3 player, most likely the music came from illegal sources as no online seller of music sells the popular music in this format.
As with the iPod at least the option exists to buy the music legitimently via the iTunes Music Store with currently the largest of all selections available.
So MP3 player usually means stealing music and a lawsuit.
A iPod means kids buy their music they way they should.
I agree with almost all of MDN articles, but I think this time they could admit that the reporter has some good points.
11 year old girls don´t need the nano or even the shuffle. 99$ is a lot of money when you are so young, and it´s not sure if shuffles superior design and capacity matters to that young people…
Apple is good, sure, but I can see that in some cases other alternatives is actually the best. (But i bought two nanos in christmas-presents).