A Lesbian, formerly employed by Apple Computer as a human resources compensation consultant, has slapped one of the nation’s largest computer manufacturers with a discrimination lawsuit.
This lawsuit, filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California in San Francisco, may be one of the largest discrimination lawsuits filed against Apple Computer by a Lesbian.
The amended complaint, filed on May 16, 2005, alleges that Shaune Patterson was suspended for one month and then subsequently wrongfully terminated from her position, after she complained that her white counterparts, who were junior to her, were making higher salaries than she was. Patterson alleges that the suspension came one day after she complained of racial discrimination.
Patterson, who has an MBA from the University of Texas, amended her complaint to include claims of sexual orientation and genetic characteristic discrimination. Prior to her one-month suspension, Patterson alleges that one of Apple’s managers wrote a memo describing her as a “rather obese-sized black lesbian.” According to Patterson’s attorney, Waukeen McCoy, “Apple discounted my client’s achievements, choosing to base the decision to discipline not on her performance, but rather on her size, race, and sexual orientation.” McCoy was the lead plaintiffs’ attorney in one of the largest U.S. History racial discrimination suit, Carroll v. Interstate Brands Corporation, which rendered a verdict for $133 million in August of 2000.
Source: PRNewswire.
If its true, Apple deserves a little more than a slap on the wrist…
However isn’t Apple very liberal? Discrimination just doesn’t seem to fit their persona…
Interesting the development of this story will be.
Advice for Patterson: less doughnuts and more “hot dogs.”
I take it the person in question is not from the island of “Lesbos”; therefore you shouldn’t be capitalizing “lesbian” unless, as always with MDN, there is some proselytizing involved.
At least we know MDN is always evenhanded when it comes to platform comparisons…
Human Resources has to be one of the most bloated (hah) and wasteful parts of a company. All these losers do is turn into demi-Gods who have the illusory belief that they are actually managerial and important. These people go into HR because they aren’t qualified for anything else.
Since when is Lesbian a proper noun???
Hey, let’s not forget that lesbians played a major role in developing the internet to its state of greatness that we all take for granted today.
“Apple discounted my client’s achievements, choosing to base the decision to discipline not on her performance, but rather on her size, race, and sexual orientation.”
What achievements? Eating a lot of Krispy Kremes?
“Patterson alleges that the suspension came one day after she complained of racial discrimination”
Can you say, “Gold digger?” I knew you could.
“…claims of sexual orientation and genetic characteristic discrimination.”
Gimme a fscking break.
This is simply another ‘Anna Ayala’ making vacuous allegations to try and get a wad of cash out of Apple.
Hey Shaune, do your damn job and you won’t get fired.
The word “lesbian” is capitalized in the press release. MacDailyNews did not add the capitalization, so don’t blame MDN.
I’m a little in shock at the immature posts being left here by readers. This lawsuit isn’t a joke, and neither is attacking the person filing the suit. If there is any truth to the accusations, then Apple must find the manager who created the memo, and discipline them, even going as far as firing them. There is no excuse for such behavior in corporations these days. However, if she is bringing this lawsuit against Apple without any facts to support her case, then she has little chance to win.
It is entirely possible, that this is a case of someone who is trying to play the role of a victim, bringing attention to themselves. I have seen this in the past. “I’m not like you, you don’t understand me, I don’t like being left out, I’ll make you pay attention to me.” and of course, this causes problems within the company, and so the ‘troublemaker’ is released from their job, only to come back and cause a bigger problem.
I’m going to watch this particular case closely. I want to know if there is any basis for it, or if this is a case of someone taking advantage of Political Correctness to gain money, or revenge over something.
Oh freaking please. It is so not true. I’m so sick of racial discrimination law suits. THEY ARE ALL CRAP.
White counterparts make more. My guess is the white counterparts work harder, don’t run around worrying about their whiteness as part of their daily routine, let alone thier sexual orientation.
All these suits do is harm people. Yup, American Business folk, think long and hard before you hire gays, lesbians, women, or black people. Especially any combination of those. One false step and you get sued for a hundred million dollars.
sounds like it’s straight from
CrazyAppleRumors.
heheheheheheheheheh
was she a ninja????
Dak Roland. Give it a fricking break.
This is just a case of a big fat black lesbian looking to get rich quick.
“Oh woe is me. I’m a big fat black lesbian, and all those skinny white normal people don’t like me.”
Lose some fricking weight and stop bothering people about your race and sexuality. Concentrate on the job and everything will be fine.
And another thing… how does she know how much others make unless she’s abused her positiion in HR to check their salaries. She should be fired for that alone.
I dunno. Suing in America for obscene amounts is just too prevalent. If this person got canned for the wrong reasons then I guess she should get some compensation but 133 million is ridiculous.
The size of the settlements that come thru pretty much guarantee that people are gonna be suing if they even have a wisp of a chance of a settlement. Much better odds than buying a lottery ticket I would say. Companies have to think of this as one of the costs of doing business I guess. And we all know who the costs of business end up getting passed along to – We the Consumers.
Black
Lesbian
Fat
Ooooohhhh!
BIG $$$$$$$$$
Here’s the likely story:
– Employee doing a poor job. Supervisor tells her to improve. (Occurs multiple times)
– Employee gets upset. Starts believing she is being discriminated against and looks at everything as a racial/sexual orientation slight. Finally claims racial discrimination.
– Supervisor decides there is no racial/sexual orientation discrimination occurring. Believes employee cannot work well with others as long as this claim is on the table. Suspends employee while further investigation occurs.
– Investigation occurs. No discrimination is found. After further discussions, Supervisor decides to terminate employee because no common ground can be found – atmosphere has been poisoned.
– Employee sues.
Anon
that is a terrible, terrible comment. I feel terrible for laughing at it.
thelonius
Statements of the form ‘all _____ are _____’, when applied to human behaviour, generally tend to be self-discrediting. Fine for physics, not fine for persons, if your aim is to convince anyone of anything.
I agree that these lawsuits have an air of opportunism about them, but saying that “they are all crap” is a disservice to legitimate complaints. There are still some dinosaurs roaming around corporate America. Just as we need to be vigilant about punishing those who put forth and capitalise on frivolous lawsuits, we also ought to be vigilant to eradicate corporate sexism racism, and homophobia.
Hey Steve,
I wish Microsoft was as good on this subject as Apple is! This woman doesn’t have a chance. She shouldn’t have chosen to work for a company with such a sterling reputation for treating gays and minorities as fairly as Apple does. They make Microsoft look moderate on the subject!
Why do the words “fat angry Lesbian” have such a nice ring to them? hm….
While I understand the need to defend Apple (I do it a lot), unless you know the background of the story, I wonder how so many posters can judge the case by the short story on MDN. I’m no fan of big lawsuits either, but unless you’ve really been discriminated against, I don’t believe it’s so easy to understand what it feels like. Yes, Apple is one of the most liberal companies I know of, but I am sure that there are still employees (and bosses) that are prejudicial. It could be that the comments are real. It also could be that this is a baseless lawsuit. But to decide that she’s a lazy fat bitch just from this story is unfair. Then again, if you’re that judgemental, you’re probably not going to take my word for it, now are you?
Hey, my magic word is “reaction”!
“Advice for Patterson: less doughnuts and more “hot dogs.”
Holy shit, that is one funny post. It’s wrong, sure. But funny as hell.
“It is so not true. I’m so sick of racial discrimination law suits. THEY ARE ALL CRAP.”
thelonious Mac,
That is just about the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this forum, and that’s saying a LOT. So by your logic, the Brown vs. The Board of Education suit, which struck down segregated schooling and is seen as one of the cornerstones of the civil rights movement, was “crap”? Minorities getting the right to vote was “crap”? Methinks,you’re full of shit.
And all you folks making disparaging remarks about “fat black lesbian gold-diggers”, it’s up to the courts to decide whether the case has any merit. Until you know the details, I’d strongly suggest that you all shut the fuck up. Blindly rushing to Apple’s defense by making truly offensive remarks about the complainant only marks you as pinheaded fanboys. Just because Apple makes products you like doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re a likable company.
I’ve said it here before: separate who they are from what they do. I think that Sean Penn is an insufferable jerk, but he’s one of the finest American actors ever, and I love his films; I think that Steve Jobs is one of the greatest visionary minds in the tech industry, but I don’t think a more arrogant prick has ever walked the earth. By all means, love your Macs, but retain some objectivity obout the public corporation that makes them.
Give me a break!!! Being fired is ALWAYS about race, sexual orientation, etc. isn’t it? They’ve always got to play that card, never take responsibility for their own shortcomings, and try to suck a company dry instead of getting off their own fat ass and moving on to something else. The most dangerous person in the world: Black Lesbian. Makes me sick. I trust Apple is smart enough to terminate for the right reasons and will defend it’s position vigorously.
So what if the memo describer her as a “rather obese-sized black lesbian”.
If she is obese she has no claim for that adjective.
If she is black she has no claim for that word as well.
And lastly if she is lesbian then she cannot claim that is inaccurate either.
It seems to me that the manager concerned was merely applying ‘truth in advertising’ type legislation to his memo.
If any of the above are not true then she can claim for libel and possibly the other points as well, however a perfect defence against libel is either
“the statements are true” or
“the author reasonably and sincerely believed them to be true”
For her to win a claim on the basis of sexual, racial or size discrimination she will have to demonstrate far more than a memo that appears to be true.
As for her juniors getting paid higher than her, she better be careful. If there is a bonus component to the pay package she will have to prove that the bonus calculations were unfairly applied. If Apple can demonstrate that the others fairly earned any bonuses and that the same rules were applied to her, then she is done for. At least if there is any justice, she will be.
On the other hand, if she has been discriminated against and she can easily prove it, then she should win. Not $133 million, that is disproportionate.
Anyway, that’s my two bits worth.
I love how people make it out to be that Apple did this. It was most likely her superior that did this, not the whole company. I’m sure that the person who wrote that letter with those remarks is going to be terminated and she will be asked to come back, that is if she wants to come back.
And anyways, if someone brings alligations against someone else in a company, don’t both get suspended until it can be sorted out. You know, so they are not causing tension at the work place. All we know is she has been suspended, then laid off, what about the other person or people involved. And how do we know it wasn’t related to her work. Intil we know everything, this is someone screaming racism. We don’t know if she got up in front of everyone and screamed out, “I’m big, I’m black, and I’m a lesbian!” Then in the memo that got sent out about the commotion, they described her as saying that she is big, black and a lesbian. She might have done that out burst because MS pulled out of the Gay rights thing.
Who knows. Until all the evidence is layed out, this is just alligations.
Could it be possible that she was hired in the first place because she was “fat, black and Lesbian?”
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Here’s some advice for Patterson: Go straight and lose some weight.
Oh yeah, BTW, apply for a job at Microsoft. You’ll fit right in there.
it all depends on how the manager was using that description. We will probably never know how much of a factor her physical appearance was in her being fired, but the manager should really have known better than to be so careless in a corporate email. he should be fired just for being careless and stupid. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that this woman should win this lawsuit. It just goes to show that it doesn’t hurt to be a little considerate. If he hadn’t written down those few words, this wouldn’t even be happening, and as a manager, he should know how things like that can be used against him.
and also, since when has physical appearance not played a role in a person’s success? A lot of times, first impressions play a large role in our views/attitudes towards a person. We all do it, we all draw conclusions based on appearance. For example, one study shows that taller men on average make more money that shorter men. The reason being that a person’s height plays a factor in how succesful he is. Not that stereotyping is right, but it shouldn’t surprise us, and filing lawsuits and creating discrimination laws isn’t the solution.
I’d hate to hear that this is a common thing, I respect Apple greatly for their focus on diversity. This does not reflect that message. I happen to be a lesbian and my dream job is to work at my local Apple Store, I would hope my exceptional job performance would determine what I am payed and that pay wouldn’t be detrimented simply because of my sexual preference. I hope this either turns out to be fake, or Apple gets what they disserve for it if it’s true.
you know, i can understand the need to defend apple against all the fud and general misunderstanding that populates the net and traditional publications, but the negative knee jerk reactive comments take it to a new low.
i would bet that the vast majority of the negative comments on this board where posted by white hetrosexual males that are in some way threatened by a black lesbian.
these comments alone demonstrate that racial and sexual discrimination are alive and well in this county. discrimination only serves one purpose: it gives small dicked pimply white boys an impotent illusion of superiority in an ever increasing world where they are being pushed futher out of the majority.
on a more rational note, the merrits of this case will be determined in the courts. if they’re found to be baseless then apple can sue for it’s court costs. if they’re found to have merit then apple will have to pay and the manager(s) should be fired. this will probably never make it to court, they’ll be some kind of settlement as well as some kind of mandatory diveristy training.
are you guys for real?
Not only are some of these comments ignorant in the most offensive way, they really expose to the world the juvenileness of Macatistas.
Shape up, this is a very public forum and your comments make all Mac advocates look really bad.
I mean ” Go straight loose some weight.; “Advice for Patterson: less doughnuts and more “hot dogs.”” what the F is that.
Why don’t you “just go windows and never look back” jerks.
Who the hell needs people like you and Rush Limblah representing mac users.
And the the same A..H…s wine about being attacked constantly by ignorant Windows users.
how is this different.
Again just because Apple makes amazing products does not mean that they have some bad eggs working for them.
It would be amazing if Apple where the best employer with the best environmental record and the best community practises, but the reality couldn’t be further from this ideal as we have been witnessing recently. (lawsuits against bloggers? hello?
recycling policies? what?
Making their resellers life difficult? how does that help?).
For Apple to be at it’s best we need to be really sharp about it’s business practises and really check the company on any of it’s policies implied or real.
If you trully love Apple then you would take accusations like this seriously and demand explanation from the company.
Not attack the victim.
We are not Taliban.
doods.
not cool.
not cool.
PS, I am neither ah woman nor a minority so keep your trap shut with the disparaging comments.
“My guess is the white counterparts work harder, don’t run around worrying about their whiteness as part of their daily routine, let alone thier sexual orientation.”
With people like you around, who assume the white people work harder, why should the white people worry? I guarantee they think about their coworker’s blackness, lesbian-ness, and obesity all the time.
It’s the privilege of the majority that you don’t have to worry about being the only _whatever_ in the office, that you will be judged on your merits, and you will be given the assumption of innocence by morons like you in any situation.
With every passing day it becomes more clear that the MDN readership is mostly straight, white, ignorant, male teenagers. At least I hope they’re teenagers–that leaves some possibility that they might learn something as they get older and realize they don’t know shit about anything.
Seems pretty obvious to me, but apparently not to many other MDN readers, that We Weren’t There, and consequently we don’t have anywhere near enough information here at our computers to make a sensible judgment about whether this was a lazy employee who got fired for being a pain in the ass and then cooked up a scheme to get wreak financial revenge, or a woman who had a Very Bad Boss who fired her because he was encumbered by severely neanderthal prejudices, or even a case of corporate policy that discouraged minorities from receiving equal opportunities and equitable pay.
However, I would tend to discount the latter possibility (which has to be the basis of this lawsuit for it to be worth anything), simply because the Apple campus is rampant with societal fringe of every shape, size, and color, including bearded men in panty hose and high heels, extremely obese managers, physically challenged programmers, Little People, right-wing Libertarian wackos, schizoid vegan CEOs, and even acknowledged Salesmen.
But since nobody here has any idea what went on in this case, why not just let the lawyers, the judge, and the jury, do their job? Maybe the result will be interesting. But probably not.
Hh my god whoever “Thelonius Mac” is; he better change his pseudonim now, because “Thelonius Monk” is about to come and kick his ass.
Reading some of these posts all I keep thinking about is TALIBAN.
Most of the posts sound like the same facist chauvisnistic drivel that the taliban used to spew about women, other religions, and different people.
Taliban: “you got raped, but you are a woman therefore it’s your fault because you tempted the man by being a woman.”
Thelonious Mac (ugh I am sorry Monk) : “If you are fat and a lesbian AND black, then the only way you can get money is by extorting us upstanding, objective, heterosexual, white male business owners.
Therefore no matter what the merrits of this suit, you are the one who is to be punished.”
My god not only do I not want people like TM representing Mac users, I think he is the kind of person that makes me ashamed of both being a man and of being caucasian.
YUK… F…ing Hitler youth. get a f…ing life you looser.
Being obese, black and lesbian when fired…. isn’t that what they term a PC Trifecta?
in which case those involved need to be fired and the company needs to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
Women in the workplace… sigh!…
I knew some of you were racist and blind to it. Why don’t you let the facts come out before your draw your conclusions.
1) To Seabasstin – would you please just shut your whining, liberal, politically correct pie hole? People like you(and Dak Roland) are more offensive to this world than the people that made the “disparaging” comments. You, and other spineless fish of your ilk, are what allowed this country to get to this point of “I am “special”, and if you don’t agree I will sue”. YOU disgust ME with your sanctimonious attitude. Just do us all a favor and s t f u!
2) Well, I am sure when she was hired she was probably an obese, black dyke yet that didn’t stop them from hiring her now did it?
Christ, if only she were in a wheelchair, too, this would be the jackpot!
Political Correctness has run its course. Now common sense will apply the backlash in “spades,” so to speak. This big fat black carpet muncher deserves nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Period.
Now let the bleeding heart hippie tree huggers castigate me for speaking my mind and what I believe to be the truth.
She is a woman.
She is obese.
She is of color.
She is a lesbian.
She should work in government. She has everything going for her. If she spoke French also, she could go right to the top here in Canada. 6 figure salary in no time. That MBA she has might slow her down though. She may be over qualified for government work.
Anon,
For Liberals, free speech only applies if it matches their warped world view. Anything else is “hate speech.” How convenient. No wonder they don’t occupy the White House, run Congress, run the Senate, or own the Supreme Court.
With out a doubt the most ridiculous fscking commentary from everyone i’ve ever seen…….the fact is all u COMPUTER USERS will ever do is fscking talk talk talk talk talk,….. too scared to put ur life on the line for anything real, u would never actually do anything but talk talk talk talk… .drop this subject… i hope whatever the truth is in this matter will come out and justice served……but to hear this useless commentary….. it disgusting, we’ll all be judged one day, ridiculous absolutely ridiculous,
Ps. i work for apple, i think its the best place i’ve ever had the priveledge to work, but if this is true……let justice be served………..
its pathetic that i even had to post a message on this stupid subject…..so i to am a riduculous foolll,,,,,,,, we’ll all die some day….
Mmmmm… Big Fat Black Lesbian’s.
All your comments suck, you should use Windows
If that is true, Apple should blame the wrong manager.
I don’t think that being gay is wrong when you work at Apple.
I’m gay and I still want to be pride working with a mac.
Would you want someone who made these comments deciding whether you’re hired, promoted or fired?
Re: many of these posts…
“The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity.”
-Harlan Ellison
’nuff said.
You hate-filled bigots should join the KKK. Then you could lynch as many black people as you want!
Make sure you get a double membership with the Christian Coalition, so you know you are doing God’s work when the people you lynch are gay.
dennis,
well said. My thoughts exactly.
I can’t believe you guys changed the title of the article to “Obese-sized Black Lesbian …” from the former “Lesbian files…” Regardless if the suit is true or not, that just smacks of sensationalism. We don’t even know if the woman is obese rather just that some idiot was stupid enough to call her obese.
I’ve always heard that Apple was a cool place to work for lesbians and gays; but just because an organization is cool doesn’t mean all it’s employees are. So it’s well feasible that some employee did act discriminatory to her; it’s also feasible that if an employee did perform discriminatory actions that they may or may not have anything to do with her being fired. That’s what the “discovery” process for the case well explore.
“From: Charko May 21, 05 – 05:00 pm
dennis,
well said. My thoughts exactly.”
that goes double for me.
MDM Magic Word: “choice” as in….
One may either work to make a contribution to the betterment of our society… or work harder to be a better asshole. It’s your “choice”.
I blame Newsweek.
And to be comprehensive, I think she’d also need to be a midget quadriplegic over the age of 65 to get all the discriminatory bases covered.
MW: along. As in “Can’t we all just get…”
all you people who carelessly fling around the word “liberal” and “hippie” or whatever, you’re simply ignorant and prejudiced against things that are different from you or things you don’t understand. people like you are PART of what ruins justice… BUT, at the other end, there are the EXTREME liberals, the ones who are morons by ignoring justice in a different fashion… by being spineless and giving the REAL gold-diggers a break because they’re colored/gay/whatever.
BOTH EXTREMES ARE WRONG. too many people in this forum see things only as black and white… no pun intended. and this two-tone bullshit is what ruins real justice.
the memo may have presented only facts, but it did so in a manner that was unnecessary. it’s kinda like saying “this person has a big wart on their face and is very unattractive” – even if it’s true, it’s not necessary.
so if the memo is real, the person who wrote it needs to be punished. if this woman IS gold-digging, SHE needs to be punished for tying up the justice system with her crap.
so you apple apologists AND you moron white/hetero-power jerks AND you spineless liberal extremists ALL need to shut up and wait for the FACTS to come forward. i hate to sound like an asshole but i just find it so amazing that nobody can really look at this thing without putting their own slant on it. and it is that slant that makes for poor judgment.
alright… that’s enough out of me.
I’m not sure what’s wrong with the descriptive terms…
Obese – Either she is or isn’t. I could understand if the manager called her “fatso.”
Black – I assume she is a black woman. Isn’t Black the currently accepted term. She is a black woman. There’s nothing wrong with saying that.
lesbian – Well. The only way anyone at Apple could have known she was a lesbian or not would have been if she let it be known she was a lesbian.
I could see this person being upset if she was a slender, straight, white female. Then those terms would have been untrue. Or if they called her a porky-dyke-(insert any derogatory black reference).
It also depends on the context of the memo.
I’d like to read the entire memo before passing judgement.
Did the memo indicate she was fired because she was an obese, black, lesbian?
Or did the memo simply use those terms to identify which employee was being fired for some other valid reason.
obese…check
black…check
lesbian…check
a perfect score on the oppress – ‘o – meter
might as well giver the money now and save yourself the legal fees
“…giving the REAL gold-diggers a break because they’re colored/gay/whatever”
Sorry, Matt, but by using the word ‘colored’ you have automatically become a racist, too intent on your own selfish, white worldview to learn the currently accepted terminology for another ethnic group.
The liberal handbook now requires me to ask, “And what color would that be?” in a sarcastic, imperious tone.
by using the word ‘colored’ you have automatically become a racist…
Penalty,
That’s kind of a severe assessment don’t you think?
I know people who are older (in their 50s and above) who use the word “colored” out of habit and are anything but racist. At one time that word was accepted.
After all, do you know what the letters, NAACP stand for?
You’re not being very tolerant for a liberal.
OK, so a fat woman, a gay woman and a black woman walk into a bar all together… stop me if you’ve heard it…
After review…
I’d fire the manager.
Why?
Because he or she wrote…
Obese-sized
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use the additional word “sized”.
Obese says it all. If someone calls someone else obese it’s obvious that they’re referring to their size.
YOU’RE FIRED!
The company where I work is majority white and MOST of them are losers. Just like anywhere, a few hard working ones make up for all the lazies that just want to attend meetings, take smoke breaks and talk about their children.
I say that to say this, it’s VERY hard to get fired from anywhere nowadays. Of the last 4 people (that I know of) at my company that were doing poor jobs, one was demoted, one was moved to a position where they couldn’t do as much damage, one (contractor) had their contract ended and one was allowed to steal until the amount stolen meant it was a federal case.
So, if this person was fired, I’m more likely to believe that they’ve got a pretty darn good reason for doing it, and it has nothing to do with performance (you don’t get fired for poor performance, you’re more apt to get fired for creating a hostile workplace).
Heroin,
FUNNY STUFF! LOL!
Question If a white girl said she was harassed then what would some say don’t hire white women. Being a black man I have to wonder when blacks and whites will stop judging people by there skin color and by the content of their character. Another question If you are a man in a relationship and it goes bad because of her, do you classify all women at that point as bitches,whores,hoes,and sluts? I mean, all cases like these can’t always be just because someone wants a free ride black or white.
Maybe the lady in question objected to the memo because she’s got low self-esteem, particularly about her weight. It happens, but some people just accept that they have a certain body shape and while they try to change it, they know people are going to use ‘large’, ‘fat’, or ‘tubby’ as a descriptor. if I was helping a newbie where I work to find one of these obese people, I’d certanly use a term such as ‘large’, or maybe ‘great of girth’ to describe them.
Then again, I work in a foundry, where we’re all pretty much non-PC to start off with, and right bastards at the worst.
As for ‘black’ or ‘lesbian’, well, many people now accept that they are black, or lesbian, or both, fairly readily – and sometimes with pride – so I don’t really see how the lady would be sensitive to those terms.
I wonder if it has occurred to anyone that perhaps she was a shitty worker.
Why does everyone assume that Thelonius Mac is white? Would your perception of Thelonius Mac’s comments change if this poster was black? Black and lesbian? Black, lesbian, and obese? Does it matter?
Take Thelonius Mac’s comments as a black person – could it be they are tired of using race or other “genetic identifiers” to succeed in the business world and to be judged soley on the merits of their work? Would the comments change if Thelonius Mac were a white male?
I find Thelonius Mac’s comments interesting and the replies Thelonius Mac’s posts to make rather significant assumptions. Assumptions, by the way, you should leave out when judging an employee’s performance.
“it’s VERY hard to get fired from anywhere nowadays”
All of the “right to work states” where you can be fired “without cause” unless you’re one of the 10% of U.S workers with a union contract.
I know many on this site are anti union and we have some where I work; many eventually come begging the union for help in extracting managements foot out of their asses.
You need to come out of your cave more often.
Viridian:
Am I to assume you have never heard of Sputnik?
~M
http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm
Of which California is NOT one… unless this employee was working at Apple’s Wyoming facility.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
your post said “anywhere nowadays”, not California.
Has it ever occured to you that some of your coworkers might include you in the “losers” category?
I know for a FACT that I’m in the losers category
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> I get paid the same regardless of if I’m a “hard working eager beaver” or a “loser”. The only difference is how tired I am at the end of the day. LOL!
I know that this person has a copy of the memo…I did not know that there were so many ignorant people in this world. Would you like to be terminated from your position because of your race? How about because of your weight or appearance. If you answered yes, you are sick and should not be in this country.
Another thing, the memo was not given to the plaintiff while she was working for Apple, it was received in records obtained from the company after the lawsuit was filed; thus, the amended complaint.
Maybe those of you who are so negative about this case might need to gather all the facts before making ridiculous statements about someone who decided to take a stand, it is not easy to take a stand when you know you are right against a large corporate giant.
If the person wasn’t doing their job satisfactorily, fine, fire them – end of story. A person’s color, gender, sexual orientation, age, religion or marital status shouldn’t even be a part of the equation – if they’re simply not performing, then a company should have the right to discipline the individual or terminate their employment.
However, when managers start throwing around statements like “black obese-sized lesbian” we have to start to wonder what relevance this description has in relation to the employees job performance. I suspect probably none whatsoever. Then why did the manager say it in the first place? Why did the manager feel that a person’s physical appearance, race, gender and sexual orientation were in any way relevant to the employees job performance?
For my money, it’s the manager who should been sacked in the first place ……….. but, we don’t have all the details yet.
1- It is not a violation to describe someone by their race. Have you ever seen a government form, medical demographic or any similar document WITHOUT it?
2- Being a Lesbian is her personal business, unless she chooses to MAKE it an issue. If she does, it’s ‘in play’ and she loses any sympathy from anybody but the most soft-headed. Militant homosexuality or heterosexuality has no place in the workplace. People are hired and paid to WORK– not pursue a political agenda. If she works in HR she should know that already.
3- Obese/Fat people ARE a growing (forgive the pun) problem in this country. The obese and their related health problems are going to break the financial back of our country if something does not happen fast. Since employers can discriminate against smokers, why not against those who will not lose weight? Although there are a few obese people who have a real medical condition, most just need to eat less & differently. They also need to get off of their *ss and MOVE. Losing weight is no great mystery– it just requires discipline and sustained effort.
4- Sounds like someone trolling for money to me. Few places in the universe are as P.C. as Apple. If she can’t cut it in Cupertino she should look forward to a lifetime of disappointment.
Just imagine what she will do with all the money
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MacDailyNews, you should be ashamed for changing your headline to include the quote that is part of this woman’s complaint.
And for those who will say there’s nothing wrong with it, because she IS an obese, black, lesbian woman–that is not the point. By putting it in the headline, MDN is only repeating the alleged comment that was offensive to the employee–a blatant bias in favor of Apple. MDN has lost its last shred of journalistic integrity.
Imagine this headline: “Bitch who deserved it” requests restraining order against abusive boyfriend
ADVICE!
Please take advice from seabasstin’s post. Inflammatory postings reach people like me who will be receiving my first mac tomorrow.
Your thoughts are your own to keep. However when you post things in public like what I have been reading it make me question the community. I can’t proundly represent a community of Child talk. Still trying to figure out what keeps me coming back to this site!
Perhaps I’m curious
BUT you would benifit your cause more if you were a bit more Humble
i agree with dennis. what’s up with the headline? fox news or the new york post would tabloid an article like this. is this what we should expect from mdn from now on?
I’m shocked about the homophobe and racist tunes that some of the above posts play.
I hope this does NOT reflect a big part of the Mac community.
Or maybe we just THINK NOT DIFFERENT after all… 🙁
purely circumstancial, it won’t hold in court.
It’s amazing how racist most of you guys are.You’re the people who still polute the world.
If I were me, I’d fire myself, just for reading this article. Then I’d sue myself, for unjust firing. After that I’d sue the goddam government for allowing a poor jobless person to be put through the pain and mental suffering and anguish of court proceedings. Plus, as I have a left big toe which is slightly larger than my right big toe, that makes me a minority group, so that’s gotta be worth a few extra mil.
Then I’d move to – nay buy and move to – a Pacific tropical island on which to retire, and employ lot’s of black obese lesbian women to run my own personal HR department.
Then I’d get sued by slim straight white women for discrimination, have to sell my island paradise to pay court imposed fees, and be back at square one.
I think I’ll apply for a job at Apple.
jboy,
It’s not the Mac community, it’s the United States in general. A big part of EVERY community is racist and most of us won’t ever know. Just recently I found out my best friend I’ve known since grade school is racist. I had no idea. Then again, when we’re just hanging out, there was no one for him to be racist against so I never COULD have known.
this is like your greatest PC-nightmare come true
reminds me of
german punk rock band “die toten hosen”
CD: Unsterblich
released 1999
song: lesbian black handicapped
http://www.dietotenhosen.de/en/veroeffentlichungen_songtexte.php?text=alben/unsterblich/lesbische.php
punchline
“lesbian black handicapped can be assholes, too.”
too darn funny
The right-wing racists are the ones that put Bush in office. They can’t be all bad… ummm… wait… yes, they are …and… uuuh… Bush really sucks (current approval rating is under 45%, even republicans think he sucks!)… and so does the Republican Congress totally suck. You’d think that with all of these good and pure religious types having their buddies in BOTH the White House and Congress, things would get done, the American society would thrive with such religious folk having all of the power. Right? Isn’t that what we were lead to believe?
But the US is quickly going down the crapper; economically (what happened with the $8 billion in oil the US got in the first few months in Iraq for “rebuilding the country” so Americans wouldn’t have to foot the bill… WHICH WE ARE!?), militarily (base closings), morally (altering the Constitution to outlaw love between two people based on their own bigoted and warped misinterpretation of the Bible) and socially screwed (not secure any longer with the Republicans raping the Social Security system for their own gain). The US is going to Hell in a basket and the “morally-pure religious” Republicans are holding the handle.
Democrats always said that Republicans are greedy, self-centered, pricks. How much more proof do you need?
The Republicans were right with ONE thing; they said that if they were to ever run BOTH the White House and the Congress, things would change. They were 100% correct!! Now, the nation will pray for a Democratic run government in 3 years to fix all of these problems. Why don’t people learn? It seems like Republican memories fade every 4 years once the nation is back on track and stable so they can rape it again.
When the greedy fight amongst themselves, no one wins!!
Bigots, I’d burn them all if my idea of Christianity were anything like theirs.
I call bullshit! She just wants money for the liposuction.
Ah, so many people who know so much about the circumstances behind the alleged events.
Come come my plebian posters, allow the courts to adjudicate the matter. That’s what they’re paid for.
fat, lazy, greedy, black lesbian
To half of you people: please stop being stupid, it’s very annoying.
For the others here’s something to think about.
> NoPCZone:
>It is not a violation to describe someone by their race. Have you ever seen a government form, medical demographic or any similar document WITHOUT it?
Actually yes, all of them, but I don’t live in the USA
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Here, any data processing of personal characteristics beyond those found on an ID card is simply illegal. That leaves name, date/city of birth, gender and social security number. Plus maybe height, what older documents called “distinctive traits” (amputed legs, glasses and such) and perhaps eyes colour since it’s mentionned on passports as it isn’t obvious from ID snapshots.
This has very real consequences on the way individuals relate to each other (they simply do, as opposed to relating to each other’s “community”).
Other consequences such as total lack of any “race” (or religion or whatever)-related criminality statistics puzzle US “specialists” to no end, which doesn’t stop them from drawing paranoid assumptions instead of realizing the extremely obvious facts that:
-a- There is NO scientific basis for “racial” categories, so any use of that “information” is a fallacy bound to cause flawed reasoning and flawed societies. Reality is already complex enough to avoid basing a society on non-existant distinctions, or on your preferred toothbrush, sexual fantasies, or imaginary friend for those whose governments still consider BELIEFS as relevant to public matters as facts (not to mention those who boldly claim “faith-based” politics, scaring the hell out of anyone who thought the West exited obscurantism about 1k years ago).
-b- One doesn’t steal an apple because of skin colour or religious belief: it has to do exclusively with poverty and social injustice (or less often with mental disorders). So it is pointless to calculate ratios of black killer teens or white corrupt CEOs: nothing will ever come out of it that wouldn’t prove stupid the day another colour of teenager becomes dominantly poor or another colour of CEO takes precedence, which WILL inevitably occur as long as colour will have any other meaning than colour. Such simple notions won’t become mainstream in the US as long as discussing politics will be “inappropriate” (which is unique among democracies), making it more comfortable to blame nature for deviant behavior (and thus to just cage deviants).
-c- Stupid thinking leads to stupid decisions and poor relationships with reasonable people (if I were to govern a country with one of the top higher [detainees|executions]/population ratios in the world, I’d feel pretty stupid trying to convince anyone of letting me kill foreigners to free them “too”).
Yes, I know, point (a) above shocks ignorant morons: blacks are no more a distinct race than redheads in biological terms, all attemps to show otherwise were politically motivated and mostly vanished after the decolonization of Asia and Africa. But decolonization never occured in America, so maybe you need stupidity. Too bad it makes you so dangerous and damaging to the rest of us as stupidity spreads faster than knowledge.
Tempting is the stupid side, easier it is.
— Master Yogurt
HAHAHAHAHA,
dude, this is soooooo funny.
hahhaahahahahahah
Oh wait, I can refine a bit:
Tempting is the dork side, easier it is.
Now beat that one.
Matt: Is that song on the German ITMS? That could be a telling sign!
lol.
has it ever occurred to anyone how unnecessary it is to mention that Patterson is a “rather obese-sized black lesbian” in a company memo? why couldn’t the manager just refer to her by name instead of attaching race, sexual orientation, and physical descriptors?
“… something to think about”
Not really, VRic – your silly points are the worse examples of pseudo-scientific tripe on this page (and that’s saying something!). I can’t decide what silly statement in your rant are the most amusing, but here are my favorites:
“…Reality is already complex enough” – reality is only a complex subject to confused nihilists, doggedly re-reading “Fathers And Sons” and trying to find something worthwhile to talk about.
“…who thought the West exited obscurantism about 1k years ago” – bafflingly vapid statement, but great use of the word “obscurantism”.
“…One doesn’t steal an apple because of skin colour or religious belief: it has to do exclusively with poverty and social injustice (or less often with mental disorders)” – so only victims of society are thieves? Does anyone place any responsibility on the individual, or is everyone now a victim? How about murderers? Rapists? Animal Bestialists? Are they just poor victims, too?
“…(if I were to govern a country with one of the top higher [detainees|executions]/population ratios in the world, I’d feel pretty stupid trying to convince anyone of letting me kill foreigners to free them “too”)” – ??? – Is this just a broadside at Bush, or was there some adolescent point here?
“…But decolonization never occured in America, so maybe you need stupidity” – Actually, we conducted a forced decolonization called the American Revolution, so I’m not sure what you mean there, but I assume it’s just another mindless rant against america.
Whether she is obese, black and a lesbian, and these are facts. As many people have pointed out, she should just get on with her work, and it should have nothing to do with it – I agree.
As a result I also agree that as this manager was obviuosly writing a memo regarding work (he should be), then like she shouldn’t make a deal about being obese, black and lesbian – HE SHOULDN’T EITHER!
If he was comminucation about anything related to work, and her performance, these FACTS about her are irrelivant. That’s the point.
You know she may be just a lazy arsed bi%@h. But now because this BONE head of a manager brought her colour, weight and sexual preference into a company/work related document, he’s given her a case.
Also IF she had made a complaint about wages being possibly biased, and THEN she was suspended, with little other reasoning, again this BONE head of a manager needs to be fired.
Being in HR she could have LEGALLY have access to wages information. She did state that these other employees were in more junior positions, so it seems fair to ask why. If I found out that my collegues in less senior positions were being paid more than me, I’d complain too. If it happended that the ONLY common trait to differentiate their wage conditions to mine was that they were of a different race/religion etc, I’d also be likely to suggest that that may be the reason.
Of course when making the complaint/enquiry as to why this may be, I’d expect my employer to respond. If they can show me that my performance is sub-standard, or that I have less responsibility (unlikely if I’m in the senior position), then I may accept that, or take my skills/knowledge elswehere.
I’d certainly be pissed off too, if I had an e-mail sent around the office describing me as a average-sized, white, heterosexual, and was then suspended without reason. The fact is I am an average-sized, white, heterosexual, but that is irrelivant to how, why, or how well I do my job. The suspension also would seem like retaliation for asking a resonable question (well reasonable if there is a REASONable answer).
My 2 cents.
Luke
Wow, the racist bigots have really come out of the woodwork today. I had to check that I was, in fact, reading MDN and not some teenage gaming website. Viridian and other voices of reason – thanks for standing firm against willful ignorance. I was going to post a reasoned plea for tolerance and suspending judgement, but I just couldn’t get past the urge to feed a page full of obscenities to the pinheads. Glad someone around here has a level head.
Ah hell, I can’t resist:
All you gay-hating, fat-hating, woman-hating, anything-different-hating morons, I hope your Macs morph overnight into virus-infested 10-year-old Compaqs running Windows 3.1. Oh, and don’t forget to go sit on a sharpened broomstick.
“genetic characteristic discrimination”
Or as it used to be called, eats too much.
This here is another great advertising page for Apple and Mac users. KUTGW, fanboys… I wonder if this content couldn’t get MDN in trouble, even. Oh well, free speech and all that.
For the fools: no matter how skewed your opinions are, the fact that she’s a butch black dyke stopped being irrelevant at the moment that that boss-man thought it appropriate to mention these facts in that memo.
—-If I found out that my collegues in less senior positions were being paid more than me, I’d complain too.—-
If I found this out…well, to me it’s still over 60 thousand a year (good wage for my area) and a damn sight better than the Toys R Us job I had that paid $3.35. If it’s enough to live on, pay bills and afford the occasional small luxury, I don’t care WHAT they make.
Dave – Win3.1 for you, buddy. Many people who are seriously obese did not get that way by overeating. Genetic hormonal and glandular problems can give people an extremely low metabolic rate, which adds on the fat no matter how little they eat. I knew a guy in college who ate less than I did (and I’m a pretty light eater), but he weighed 400 lbs.
Hybrid – Broomstick for you. “Dyke” went out with “Dago”, “Spic”, “Wop”, “Heeb” and “spear-chucker”. “Redneck” still works for you, though.
Hard to go – I’m glad to know that you have such a positive outlook. Really. But, there’s also the issue of fairness in question here, and some people take it seriously.
The USA has never been so divided.
You have Democrats on one side who claim to be the rulers of the universe and if you dare disagree with them you are a racist, sexist, religious hate mongerer. They control the media, Hollywood and public schools. They have no regard of history and wish to revise it at every turn. They want to control individuals by warping their sense of reality and removing religion from everything. All the meanwhile, they see themselves as “progressive” and “open-minded”, but they can’t stand the opinions of those who disagree with them. They wish this country was more like Europe and have no issues giving up more national freedom to get there.
With the Republicans, you have indecisive, greedy old money whose only concern is the bottom line. They pander to the political right, but stab them in the back once elected, claiming to be centrists, but really are becoming no different than the Democrats they appose above. They seem to be willing to sell out this country like the Democrats, but not in the same way. They would rather see all of the jobs in this country go away to India and China so that corporations can become “lean” and “profitable”.
There is a time when people who are stuck in the middle or other parts of the “spectrum” of this fight will grow tired of the bickering of both parties. You think the absent-minded GW Bush is bad? Wait until Hillary is elected and this country becomes an annexed state of the EU with our Constitution being flushed down the toilet in the process.
We need to go back to the only law this country has. No not, activist judges who legislate from the bench or fat, lazy senators or clueless oligarchs. The CONSTITUTION. The same document many people died for on the road of its creation, the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. See? The PC police would even have you believe “revolution” is a bad word.
Stop listening to CNN/FNC/MSNBC/ABC/NBC/CBS/Newsweek/etc. and start educating yourself before all of your freedoms have gone the way of the buffalo. It’s not about PARTY. It’s about AMERICA.
—-The CONSTITUTION.—-
You mean the same constitution that recognized slavery as an institution??
Majikthize
-If someone else wants to be treated fairly, I have no problem with that. I just find it difficult personally to be upset about someone making more than me when what I’m making is what a lot of people WISH they were making. Not to mention those that don’t have/can’t find jobs. And it only get worse as you go higher. I’d REALLY have a problem complaining if a subordinate was making $300,000 a year when I was “only” making $223,000.
Majikthize
That may have been the case with your college friend, but from my experience, the vast majority of obese people are that way because they eat too much. Even if they stick to three meals a day, they have three HUGE meals a day.
Anyway, that’s by the by. I’m sure we could all claim we’ve been discriminated against at some point. I think this particular lady is using every trick in the book to squeeze some money out of a company that fired her. The fact she states so many ways that she’s in a minority proves that to me.
And I’m left-handed, gay, vegetarian, use a Mac and ride a motorbike. So if you don’t agree with my every word, I’m sending my lawyer round
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The same Constitution that allowed slaves to stand, under the law, and assert their right to be free. For the first time in human history. Yes, that Constitution.
Flat-out discrimination is wrong. But in this day and age, and with a company as liberal as Apple, I can’t believe it would happen.
I work at a company similar to Apple where you can’t even reprimand an employee without many months of rehab and HR documentation. Companies like Apple cover their asses so tight, it’s hard for me to see something like this happen.
More than likely, this person was an underperforming worker with a sexuality and racial complex looking for the most minor thing to sue on. I’ve seen it many many times in my management experience.
Think Different?
In the end the problem is still whether we as Mac users can really attack someone for simply saying that the company that makes the products that we ‘love’, has done them wrong.
This is something that seems to constantly permeate the pages of MDN.
If anyone, no matter what their values or agenda is, criticizes Apple, that automatically makes them evil.
The thing is even though the majority of these people have malformed ideas about the Mac experience, Apple the company and it’s products; some of the criticism is not only true, but also really important for us the users and fans to really hold The Apple Organization to task about.
Whether or not this woman is lying or not is not the point.
That a complaint like that can be substantiated with proof from within the company should incite a certain amount of doubt, as well as a certain amount of scrutiny in Apples direction.
Apple is no Angel.
but no one is.
What is important though is for Apple to listen, analyze, and then correct/alter their policies to make sure that situations like this one do not arise regularly (there will always be bad eggs) and that they put in place fail safes that will be able to catch problematic behavior before it escalates.
This is something that all good organizations should do. (I would say all good citizens too–why the hell did people not see trough bush’s crap before the elections).
A lawsuits like this is more problematic then any number of the patent suits Apple is involved in, because it is symptomatic of a whole other set of problems, which can be much much more damaging to Apple in the long run.
If these lawsuits keep occurring they start representing the perspective of the top leadership, which would be sad, considering that the supreme leader himself is a neo liberal, pseudo commie, hippie, pot smoking, anti bush activist, non-christian, with children out of wedlock, who would have a hard time getting work anywhere in middle America for his behavior and attitudes about the world.
But as everything else with SJ, there is a lot of brilliance but also a lot of pig headedness, which is a little terrifying because so many a great leader has been brought down by their hubris.
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Lets just hope that Apple is not going to be affected in the ways that the companies
I don’t understand why some of you are so eager to rush to judgement. “She’s probably lazy. She eats too many donuts. She’s an underperformer. She’s got a complex”. How the fsck do you know? Probably this, probably that, it’s all idle speculation that serves no other purpose than to reinforce stereotypes. This kind of narrow-mindedness makes me sick. Why don’t you all just wait to find out if the case has merit? Don’t you see that by jumping on people who claim injustice, rightly or wrongly, you’re impeding the fight against actual injustice everywhere? You might not believe the claim, but show a little compassion just in case. Otherwise you might just be kicking someone who’s already down.
Maji,
I agree fully with what you say, but reserve the right to use coarse language. I’m a non-PC left leaning person
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—-The same Constitution that allowed slaves to stand, under the law, and assert their right to be free. For the first time in human history. Yes, that Constitution.—-
Only AFTER it was amended. The point being that the Constitution _as written_ explicitly allowed slavery. It also did not allow women to vote. Then it was changed. So to say THE CONSTITUTION isn’t really saying much since it can be changed (and HAS been changed several times).
First, Waukeen Q. McCoy is her lawyer, and you bias typing losers need to read his track record. If it was a black rich company and it was your white wife, sister or mother, would your angry views change? Fake smiley face people are dangerous and the next time your co-worker smile in your face, with that fake laugh, think about this, do they really like me? and if they do why?, self worth will make you sue hateful people. Apple should settle this and fire the manager. Ms. Patterson should get a makeover with her soon to be millions and tell all the haters to kiss her big fat black lesbian ass. It hurts to see a minority get PAID………….shame on the bias fools who have to keep working at Apple. By the way, I’m Mychael Todd Robinson “Robinson Vs Louie” landmark law, I put Waukeen Q. McCoy on the map. Read about it sometime……………