“A report this morning claimed that AT&T employees were being instructed to push Windows Phone and Android smartphones over iPhones to customers,” Alex Heath reports for Cult of Mac.
“Several readers have since shared their experiences of AT&T reps pushing Android phones over the iPhone, with one even noting that a buddy who works at AT&T gets more commission on Android smartphone sales,” Heath reports.
Heath reports, “According to a new testimony, it appears that Verizon may be also instructing/incentivising its reps to push other smartphones over Apple’s iPhone.”
Read more in the full article here.
MacDailyNews Note: CNN.com reported Verizon was doing this back in May.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Readers “Dan K.” and “Arline M.” for the heads up.]
Related articles:
AT&T orders retail staff to sell anything but the iPhone, sources say – August 1, 2012
Hard sell: Verizon Wireless clerks pushing Android phones over iPhone – May 5, 2012
AT&T commits to Google Android phones and tablets – February 7, 2011
Time for Apple to build more stores!
Crazy AT&T salesman story: I went to an AT&T store to get an iPhone, I told the salesman that. He was so focused on selling me a droid phone, that I finally got frustrated and showed him on online software ad that shows ME using a Mac…. he still didn’t get it. I bought an iPhone from Radio Shack.
so what is the financial incentive for the phone companies to do this? maybe people who buy android don’t use the phone as much and thus the phone companies are getting paid for unused features. there has to be a financial reason for this.
maybe it’s much easier to track Android settlers
AT&T and other phone companies pay a premium for the iPhone. Larger subsidies per phone equals less profit, and they are also probably concerned about the degree of control Apple has over their business practices and bottom line.
When AT&T had the exclusive on the iPhone in the U.S., it brought in lots of new post-paid (contract) customers. But AT&T gave an unprecedented level of power to Apple for that privilege. Now AT&T has to compete with Verizon and, with the Android phones (particularly the Samsung iPhone copies) gaining a bit of steam, both AT&T and Verizon would like to take Apple down a notch and recapture some of that lost control. That’s how I read it, anyway.
Maybe. It could also be that the current line of iPhones is starting to have some supply constraint and they don’t want to run completely out. Plus, starting in September those other phones are going to be an even harder sell. The idea that a customer is weak minded enough to be steered away from the real deal to a pretender is unfortunately true.
Think about it: iPhone has higher subsidy paid by carrier, and the price for any given data plan is about the same as Android, but iPhone users use far more of it.
As a company they want users to pay for service/resource but use it as little as possible.
And the sales guy doesn’t care if the Android return rate is higher–as far as they care, that’s for the chumps at the customer service desk to deal with.
Usually, the sales person’s commission is cancelled if the customer returns the phone. So yes, they will care.
As others have reported here on MDN in the past, this is AT&T reps weren’t pushing MicroNokia phones, favoring Android or Apple.
I wouldn’t count out the notion that Android makers are a little desperate; beyond the lower subsidies, there may be other financial “incentives” flowing to the carriers and their sales staff.
As was mentioned above, a first had account that sales folk get more commission for selling Android. These folks are generally poorly paid; I can see how that would sway them.
Maybe Apple needs to restrict iPhone 2012 shipments to Verizon, AT&T, and any other carrier that engages in such behavior. But then, it would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Restricting shipments would indeed be very bad. It won’t drive enough customers to other “friendly” carriers. In some cases there plain isn’t a viable alternative, or they like the family plan or other part of the contract that they’d lose if they didn’t upgrade right away.
End result: more Android sales. The dedicated base won’t mind waiting, but there’s more than enough “casual” iPhone users who aren’t that locked into apps and are lured by the bigger screens, etc.
the obvious solution would be for Apple to lower their margin on the iPhone in exchange for a carrier committing to declining OEM incentives and spiffs. That would level the playing field, and on a level playing field, iPhone wins, picking up more market share.
AT&T pushing the product that make the the most profit is a common business practice….not the best for their customers but most businesses rarely think of what’s best for the customer over profit. What is no surprise is that the one company that has the customer’s experience it’s primary focus makes HUGE profits and outsells the competition even when the sales people attempt to steer customers away from them…Apple
I wonder what the greater source of profit is? Is it the initial sale of a phone or is it it from the monthly fees paid for minutes and data? I have no insight here but it would seem that a long term customer would pay more for the subscription than for the initial purchase of a phone that, in practice, only lasts about two to three years.
If an iPhone and Android voice/data plan costs the same for a capped data allowance (say 1 or 6 GB like is common in Canada), and the majority of users never go over, then the Android is more profitable for the company.
Why? Because while the users pay the same, iPhone users tend to consume more resources and force the carrier to spend money to actually improve service/capacity (scandalous, I know).
Then of course there’s the bigger subsidy the carrier pays Apple for the iPhone. We’re talking maybe $100 more per user when compared to an equivalent Android phone, but the math quickly adds up (1000 iPhone users = $0.1 million in “lost” profit).
Here in Australia I was playing with the iPhone 4s (already own iPhone 4) and the Telstra sales rep recommended the Samsung Galaxy S3 because everyone has an iPhone. He even told me that the iPhone is crap after using a Samsung S3 for a week.
Even with the carriers worldwide pushing people away from iPhone, it still dominates!! My next phone will be the next apple phone. After using iPhones since the 3G, I’ve never had a problem. Sure there’s restrictions, but I don’t really care, I like my walled garden! Same as my iMac. Life is too short to waste time and frustration on inferior technology like windows and ANYTHING other than iPhone.
Totally agree. Telstra leave a lot to be desired at the best of times. Give me the Apple “walled garden” any day!
As said many times by many people..
The iPhone sells itself. The androids NEED someone to sell it to them.
And there is no way someone going into a store to buy an iPhone… Goes home with an android.
Now I have a dilemma though, my dad needs a new phone, and the iPhone doesn’t work for him. (answer a call with a hardware button and he could) and no… Bluetooth doesn’t work for him either..
So…. Android phone? Or some flip style crap phone? There’s really no choice other than those two. (he’s on AT&T and can’t change btw)
If your dad has a disability that makes it difficult to slide and touch on the phone then no smartphone will work and you should look at a simple kids-style big button feature phone as his best bet.
If he already has a phone that works, why change?
BTW I can answer my iPhone with a hardware button on a Bluetooth headset or the standard iPhone earbuds.
you didn’t read the part where bluetooth is not an option.
it’s not that he’s disabled, 99% he’s wearing GLOVES. and NO don’t mention putting those addend to gloves so he can use the touch screen. rough LEATHER or RUBBER gloves that he’s have to replace those pads daily. it won’t happen.
He uses his iPad in the house all the time, He just can never answer the iPhone in time. (He had an iPhone for 20 days once) He has to take his gloves off to answer it… and in the middle of -10 weather… his hands can’t unlock the screen cause they are cold along with the screen. My dad does not work indoors.. even though he’s retired, he’s either working on his ’23 T, ’37 Chevy, any of his Boats, yard work, welding, woodwork etc.
an iPhone won’t work for him, sadly you CAN answer a phone with a hardware button on android.
and his hands are huge, typing on the 3.5 screen is rough for him, it’s a one finger deal.. a slide out keyboard is actually better for him.
I even looked into one of those bluetooth keyboards that slides out for the iPhone. Still can’t answer a call with a button though.
his old POS phone is on it’s last leg he needs a new phone. it’s an old flip phone, and the screen on the outside isn’t even there anymore.. it broke, and it finally fell out.
and yes I know that if I jailbreak it, he CAN answer with the home button.
I’ve been down this road multiple times here on MDN, everyone thinks they have the answer with bluetooth or those tech gloves/dots. but what nobody understands is what my dad does. he’s not your typical old fart. he has a 40×60 shop and a 2 car garage FULL of tools. And I mean full… there are only paths to walk through. Lathe, Milling machine, multiple presses, 3 different welders etc.
If he got an iPhone, he’d have to jailbreak it to be able to even answer half the time, and one of the defender cases.
Rubbish. Your endlessly dull rant about your Dad is rubbish. WTF has this got to do with Apple products and tech generally? Nothing. I dont CARE what frickin phone your Dad uses.
Go away.
Your response is pathetic and sad. Meanie.
Brain of a fish more like.
If you have nothing constructive to add, STFU and GTFO, troll.
I partially agree with “billy the fish” in that your long rant offers up very little value to this forum. Keep it simple. You’ve already stated that the iPhone is *not* an option, so why are you asking about which Android phone to get here? 🙂 Wrong community.
Don’t discount voice activation…
Siri: “Call from ‘Billy the Fish'”.
FTB’s Dad: “Answer call”
(Siri answers call)
FTB’s Dad: “Billy, you’re an idiot, go away”
Ahhaha!
Excellent!
I wasn’t asking which android phone to get him…. I was simply saying I only have a few choices, and none of them include Apple.
and Siri doesn’t answer calls. (Yet anyway)
I use a headset/earphones most of the time and they include a button that answers the phone, controls the volume and hangs up. Most of the time the phone is in my pocket.
and once again…. didn’t read.
Headset… isn’t happening.
Can’t exactly have a headset while wearing a welding helmet..
can’t exactly wear a headset with a stocking cap covering the ears in the winter..
can’t use headphones to get in the way while you grind, weld, use a chop saw etc..
think of using the phone in an industrial setting.
I use a headset, Jabra Icon HD which works great with Siri.. But Using a headset is not an option for my dad, neither is wired headphones.
Hardware button is pretty much it.
My only option is one of the android/blackberry phones so he can text/email with it (he does on his iPad already) or iPhone and jailbreak it and enable the home button to answer a call.
or some flip phone and no email/text.
Either that or hope that the iPhone 5 updates siri to answer calls…
Any iOS 6 beta user know if that may be coming?
(then again, his current phone is shot. his contract is gone.. and i’m not sure he can wait till sept for a phone.)
FTB,
Vast majority of android phones DON’T have a hardware button for answering the phone. In fact, most Android phones today don’t even have the standard four buttons (Home-Back-Menu-Search) as physical (they are often virtual, but always present on screen). The few that do have the physical green-red buttons are the bottom-of-the-barrel, cheap devices by Huawey, Pantech and similar Chinese brands. These are definitely not recommended for someone like your dad.
This pretty much leaves you with the old-school “featurephones” (such as the low-end Pantech devices on AT&T). These don’t require data plans, have reasonably large red and green buttons, large screens (for easier reading) and decent battery life (as they aren’t Android).
Last time I remotely looked at Android phones, they did have ways of answering the calls with a button rather than the touchscreen.
they are easy to root and easy to set up that way. even if they do not have the hardware button out of the box.
Blackberries still have the hardware button though, thats a thought… sad one, but still.
the flip phone is pretty much why he’s going to have to do i’m thinking.
@Bizlaw
having two phones won’t work for him, he’d quit using one after a day i’d guess. too much of a hassle to always swap.
I’m just trying to get a decent phone for him that can email and text. I would prefer an iPhone obviously for iMessage etc.
I have an iPhone, my mother does, my brother in law does, as does my niece. Next week is my other nieces birthday, both her and my sister are getting iPhones that day. (Was planned for a while, but the niece doesn’t know yet)
So in my immediate family that I speak with regularly, everyone has an iPhone. Except my dad…
He uses the iPad, and loves it. But that may as far as he goes with Apple though.
If he wants an iPhone for other times, but needs another way to answer it when he is in the garage, what about that Motorola speaker phone for your car? I don’t know how well that would work in his shop environment, but it might be an answer. Then he wouldn’t even need to handle the iPhone with his gloves.
Another potential might be if he could get a second flip phone or other feature phone and have either his iPhone forward to it when he is in the shop or maybe he could get both to ring on the same number through the provider.
Or simply move SIM card from one to another? This is what ordinary people do all the time all over the world. Apparently, not in the US (where even AT&T and T-Mobile customers don’t realise their phone has a SIM card).
Stylus? Found some 10 for $7.00
just get him a cheap candybar phone from Nokia
This isn’t news. I had a senior student who bought a new iPhone 4 last summer and the same Verizon store sold her a Samsung tablet. I had to tske her back to the store two months later snd go on a major rant to the pointbwhere they were getting ready to call the police. I was screaming at the sales people about how immoral they were snd that it was evil to sell a Samsung tablet to an iPhone buyer at the same time when iPads were right there on the wall’s display. They even had the nerve to say the Samsung Android tablet was compatible with her iPhone 4. Then I left and they gave her an exchange for the iPad albiet with lots of penalties.
Professor Hot Head
lol. Sorry couldn’t resist.
How dare you go off on sales reps. you give us professional berserkers a bad name, you would do better to teach your students to use their brains and how to do a little research on their own, and leave the rest to the professional a-holes like me. 🙂
I think it has to do with money and nothing more.
Money doesn’t talk, it swears.
It buys politicians and judges as well.
….and businessmen, and the poor, and preachers, and pot growers, and research scientists, etc, etc, etc
I buy my iPhones from the Apple store, and I do my own research, no way I’d ever trust a sales rep from AT&T or Verizon since they push what the boss tells them to, and have little, or no understanding of the products their pushing.
I believe it. A friend of mine finally tired of her HTC Thunderbolt, which turned out to be as big of a piece of crap as I had told her it was when she bought it new. She went into a Verizon store, specifically for a 4S. Despite her very specific request for a 4S, the salesperson vigorously tried to coax her into another Thunderbolt-like phone (I think it was the Samsung Galaxy S III) even after she complained about the phone being clumsy to handle, running warm and having low battery life – not to mention iCloud integration with the iPad she already owns. In the end, she walked out with the iPhone she really wanted. But it seemed to her that the sales person was somehow incented to push the Android phone.
It has to do with the subsidy of the phone. Android subsidies are less than iPhones. If you have a good product mix the cost balances itself out. Because iPhones have a higher subsidy than android, companies obviously want their employees to push them more (this also happens with the telecom companies in Canada)
Money – carriers pay less to subsidize androids
Apple Hate – Apple already has the best people at their stores, cell stores get the haters
Negotiations – you want us to push your phone, lower our costs, give us spiffs
Incentives – cell sales people get spiffs from android makers for selling them
Makes sense – they sell the piece of crap, then sell another phone when the customer comes back unhappy. 2 or 3 for 1.
Yes also when I was trying to buy a 4s the rep tried to steer me to the samsung android phone which I gave him an earful of sass.
Could it be that the ATT and Verizon are trying to push people off their 3G network and on to the 4G?
What a bunch of unappreciative bastards. AT&T would be filing chapter 11 by now if they didn’t get iPhone five years ago.
Or maybe they got the wind that Apple is getting ready to buy T-Mobile?
Does Android have anything similar to iMessage? Maybe that’s the reason. Apple is taking a lot of money away from them by giving iPhone users free messaging.
iMessage has been crap lately. It’s sending and receiving multiple duplicate messages. I haven’t found a solution yet so I just turned it off 🙁
I’ve see the occasional glitch, but has never persisted beyond a couple of messages like you’re suggesting.
I’ve had several messages claim to be “delivered” but my friend never got them. We compared each other’s Messages history later, they just never showed up.
Not sure what the iMessage system is supposed to do; store the message if it can’t reach the other? SMS isn’t guaranteed delivery, but in my experience those at least those get stored and delivered whenever the system catches up or your phone comes online again (if it was in airplane mode for example).
This isn’t new, look at the music industry, movies, TV, companies don’t like doing business with Apple because Apple runs the show.
They couldn’t “run the show” if they weren’t any good.
Gotta think that ATT & Verizon see the iPhone 5 coming and that means they have a LOT of Android inventory that is going to be worth nothing, so “dump it on consumers now.”
There’s very little Apple can do about those carriers backstabbing them except maybe putting out ads telling consumers to purchase their iPhones online or at Apple retail stores. I feel sorry for those customers who go in for one thing and come out with something they really didn’t want. I always do research on any product I want to buy and I buy practically everything online so I never have to listen to a salesperson’s BS. I honestly don’t trust them at all. I know they’ll sell their souls for a commission because that’s how tough it is to make a living. I know those salespeople aren’t iHaters, they’re just victims of circumstance. Apple is getting screwed from all sides. Carrier salespeople, the blogging media, the court system and Wall Street.
AT&T texted a survey of my experience there. I complained their store manager was untruthful about the phones.
While there may be additional financial incentives being paid by Android/Windows phone, if Verizon and AT&T let the iPhone take over their stores they may as well turn their stores over to Apple. They HAVE to promote other products, because if you want an iPhone that’s what you’ll buy. Without more products than the iPhone, they’ll just become dumb wireless pipes even faster.
98%ers working on the sales floor are far more interested in getting another dollar in their pocket than they are in getting hundreds more in the pocket of their employer? Maybe Apple should provide a little more incentive? Oh wit, they do: the satisfaction rate of Android will be less than the satisfaction rate of iOS and the customer won’t come back to them. I know no Android users that want to do anything more than show others they have a smartphone.
Easy explanation… higher turnover rate = more visits = more sales = more profit. Sad way to live.