We received notice from Apple last evening regarding their rejection of our resubmission of the Manhattan Declaration iPhone/iPad app to the Apple App Store. This is an appalling response from Apple. Nearly 500,000 Christians have signed the Manhattan Declaration including representatives from many major Protestant denominations, leading Catholic Bishops and leaders of the Orthodox Church.
Apple is telling us that the apps’ content is considered “likely to expose a group to harm” and “to be objectionable and potentially harmful to others.” Inasmuch as the Manhattan Declaration simply reaffirms the moral teachings of our Christian faith on the sanctity of human life, marriage and sexual morality, and religious freedom and the rights of conscience, Apple’s statement amounts to the charge that our faith is “potentially harmful to others.”
It is difficult to see how this is anything other than a statement of animus by a major American corporation against the beliefs of millions of Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox citizens. It is our sincere hope that Apple will draw back from this divisive and deeply offensive position. The corporation’s leaders must be made to understand that they do the country no good service in capitulating to efforts to stigmatize, marginalize or defame people on one side or the other in important moral debates.
We will be taking this to Apple’s App Review Board after they come back from the Christmas and New Year’s holiday observances they mention. If Apple is in good faith, perhaps they will be willing to submit this matter to arbitration. We will keep you informed. Until there is more to report, we will not be making further comments on this matter.
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Readers too numerous to mention individually for the heads up.]
Apple doesn’t want to be associated with controversial content. That is their right. Go pitch your message via other means.
This is just plain old stupid for Apple. Either you support free speech or you censor like the Chinese do.
Good for Apple.
They are not “capitulating to efforts to stigmatize, marginalize or defame people on one side or the other in important moral debates”.
They are staying out of it.
The whole purpose of this app is to be rejected so some group can vent it’s disingenuous sanctimonious outrage. It succeeeded.
@ Ubermac:
The US government has to honor our right to free speech. Private corporations are under no such obligation. Don’t confuse the two.
Has there ever been a time in history when nonsensical Religious Faith hasn’t resulted in harm to “others”?
@ Ubermac
Supporting free speech doesn’t mean that you have to provide the forum for every nutcase out there. Apple isn’t trying to prevent them from posting on Android, they’re just showing some minimal standards on their own store somewhat like a free market would allow. Following your line, either you support Obama, or you’re a Fascist trying to overthrow the government…
Attention-whore1: “If we launch this little web app on the web, nobody will notice.”
Attention-whote2: “But if we submit an app to Apple and they will reject it we can tell all the click-whore news outlets about it and gain a ton of attention!”
Attention-whore3: “Yeah! Let’s do it!”
Same goes for all so-called *apps* that does not need iOS and could be done better on the web than as a waste of space on someone’s small screen.
Imagine what Fox News would have to say if Apple approved a similar Muslim app…
Are you liberal posters so blinded by your stupid ideology that you think this is good for Apple!? You wouldn’t be saying this if they had removed an app for controversial gay marriage. This is censorship all the way which the left is only against when it affects them.
Religious sects or movements or organisations, however numerous, have no right fo demand other organisations, groups or individuals kow-tow to their demands.
It’s a sad day when Apple sensors and some MacUsers consider Christian teaching as dangerous, undesirable and intolerant. I thought I was a citizen of the USA, not the USSR, Nazi Germany or Facist Italy.
If you don’t like the App don’t buy it. The App is not vulgar or obnoxious. Apple sensors and it’s supporters are the intolerant and obnoxious ones. Shame on all of you!
What if 500,000 christians wanted to put out an app that declared slavery of african-americans to be part of their religion. Would that be called “freedom of speech”? How about honor killings? How about selling your daughters for money? That’s in the bible, so it must be ok.
Just because bigotry is hiding behind religion does not make it decent or moral. Apple has my full support on this and good for them not to buckle under harassment. If only Obama had the backbone Steve Jobs has.
And by “controversial content”, I am talking about gay-bashing and anti-science nitwitisms such as these two:
1) “Each of these signers has committed to speak and act in defense of biblical truths with respect to the three issues it addresses.”
2) …“the Manhattan Declaration simply reaffirms the moral teachings of our Christian faith on the sanctity of human life, marriage and sexual morality”.
Religious kooks can go and do their holy roller stuff in their churches, where they preach that the universe is 8,000 years old (biblical truths) and gays can “cure” themselves by embracing Christ (marriage and sexual morality). And it seems they are always concerned about human life as long as it is a fetus inside someone elses’s body; I’ve yet to see religious kooks picketing outside of some jail after a boyfriend is jailed for beating the daylights out of his girlfriend’s 2-year-old child.
They can stop demanding that Apple participate in helping them to promote their worldview.
Don’t they say the same thing as the “God hates f@gs”. I think it is a duck. Apple is right on this one.
Good. And for anyone crying about free speech, it doesn’t apply. The app
Store is a store just like Walmart. Walmart doesn’t carry porn because they don’t want too. Such is life. Apple’s retail store wouldn’t carry something with this message why do you expect anything different from the App Store?
@Bikercrd
Yes, you are spot on. They just hide their “God hates f@gs”-message behind wholesome sounding rhetoric that seems hard to argue… unless one thinks about what their agenda is all about.
Before you knee-jerk libs or progressives or whatever you pinko commies are calling yourselves today go ape-shit:
In the last U.S. presidential election, neither Biden nor McCain nor Obama nor Palin supported “same-sex marriage.”
“Apple’s statement amounts to the charge that our faith is “potentially harmful to others.”
Never a truer word was said.
appropriately, the magic word is “clearly”.
Is the Manhattan Declaration akin to declaring Iran’s nuclear ambition like the Manhattan Project? In which case Apple has every right to kick that running dog Ahmadinejad in the bollocks!
@ Reality check:
Same-sex civil unions seems a reasonable compromise to the “marriage” issue.
But opposing full-fledged, in-your-face, “we’re queer and we’re here and we want to have first dibs on adoptions just like straights so we can feel fully equal and accepted”-gay rights is not what the kooks behind the Manhattan Declaration are trying to oppose. They are promoting the view that gays are doing evil by acting out on their feelings and that the only proper remedy for being gay is lots of prayer to their god to cure their disfunction.
@ Seeker of the Truth
<snark>Apple gets to do what Apple wants to do: They are a private company. Either you are in favor of free markets (Apple get to do what it wants) or you are a Communist.</snark>
I am a liberal and I actually wouldn’t have a problem with that app in the App Store. If you want to be a Christian zealot, go right ahead. There’s enough in that “Declaration” that’s anti-Christian to make my blood boil. And at times the “Declaration” seems to contradict itself. And throughout it, it is self-serving. As a Catholic, I would never sign it.
One point: Most of this “pro-life” screed goes after abortion. Yet, not once, is mentioned anything about being anti-war, against the death penalty, nor a call to speak out against deadly dictatorial regimes with which America does a lot of business. This is hypocritical. And anyone who signs it is a Christian in name only.
Americans are getting a reputation for wackjob religious fanaticism just like those we criticize.
Apple has full right to take a stand, and not get whipsawed into being a tool of the right wing Faux news crowd.
They are against “Don’t suck, Don’t swallow”. Good.
@X
Then they shouldn’t suck and swallow.
@X
And if they are against,
” rel=”nofollow”>fudge packing, they shouldn’t do that either.
Freedom-Avoid joining in in any arbitrary “Organized Belief System” including religious, and political. All groups based on arbitrary beliefs are divisive and confrontational by nature. These groups only exist based on a “belief” that they are right, thus everyone with a different “belief” must be wrong.
Apple, please continue to disable the propaganda these groups try to circulate. Thank You!
Good for Apple! The App Store belongs to them, and they can choose what they want to sell and what they don’t want to sell. It’s that simple.
An infinite number of delusional bigoted child molesting fabulists still add up to a bunch of BS foisted on people for the purposes of fear mongering and fund raising amounting to extortion in this life for an imaginary “afterlife” which is being held hostage.
Who really cares what these nuts think? They are a curse to realists everywhere.
Can anyone ever even estimate the total amount of harm caused to people throughout time thanks to the phonies who have cooked up literally thousands of gods out of thin air? And then posed as the spokesmen of these gods?
That there is a constitutional amendment indemnifying this scam is a travesty.
Whenever someone approaches you saying that a supernatural being told them that it’s their job to follow you around and chastise you for your own good, run the other way.
Children ought to be kept away from any organized religion until they’re 18. Segregating little kids from others and filling them with fears of fiery damnation for eternity just so you can squeeze money out of them all their lives is a crime.
US government does not honour free speech either. They pressed everything possible to close Wikileaks so American people woud not know what and how is done in the world on their behalf.
None of Americans actually voted for some of these mean acts that were exposed by Wikileaks and, surely, government should be aware that somebody some day will leak the truth about what they are doing.
As the courts have ruled, hate speech does not qualify as free speech, and the Manhattan Declaration is hate speech to its core. There is no fixing it. The authors need to go about fixing themselves by embracing the tolerance that Christianity teaches.
@ Amerrican
Getting a reputation for wackjob religious fanaticism? America has always been considered by the rest of the world to be populated by wackjob religious fanatics – it was even founded by “Pilgrims” (read “wackjob religious fanatics”) escaping “religious persecution Europe” (read “their religious views were way too extreme for mainstream Europe”).
And with all the comments no one has even addressed my point about censorship, or what your comments would be if they pulled your favorite liberal app (which I can guarantee is offensive to kore Americans than this one).
@mactricity
No one is claiming Apple doesn’t have the right to pull the app, but their reasoning is just plain stupid for a company as smart as Apple. Apple has the right to sensor an app that the majority of Americans would agree with (despite the noisy minority here), and I have the right to tell them Howe stupid I think it is; that’s what makes America great.
And from some of the childish immature comments on here like X, Greg L, and numerous others, I’m even more confident I’m on the “RIGHT” side
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Censorship and cowardice. Apple should believe in God, thinking of its company history.
@Seeker of the Truth- there are a number of posts here addressing your “point”… it’s not censorship protected by the Constitution. It is the free market doing what the free market does. The tyranny of the so-called “majority” isn’t protected here, and Apple can tell them to go fuck themselves if they want to. It’s their store and their investment. It’s as simple as that. All of your other troll-baiting crap is meaningless.
Atlas will Shrug this one off as well. The free market ALWAYS wins….
If you are Christian and wish to read about Christian values on your iPhone or iPad may I recommend the Bible App.
Steve, stick to your guns and tell these fsckers to go fsck themselves.
This is no better than that worthless, public-whoring Greenpeace cartel that ALSO used Apple to get attention. Same shit, different toilet…
@Seeker of the Truth
“… offensive to kore Americans than this one).”
Are you sure you don’t mean “kkkore Americans”, like yourself?
You feeling content that you’re “right”, doesn’t make you correct.
And, gee, capitalizing “right”, putting it in quotation marks, and then even putting a smiley after it, so that, wow, we really get it – How clever!
People like you make it apparent that Apple is making the right (correct) decision here.
Thank you, Apple, for taking a stand against hate.
As a Christian I’m saddened by what I read in these comments. I’m also a devoted Apple “fanboy” as they like to call us, and I sickened by the intolerant attitude of Apple on this issue. The Manhattan Declaration (which most commenting here have NEVER EVEN READ) is not hate speech (unless the Bible is hate speech). Many of would like us Christians to simply shut up about how we feel and what we believe, except in our churches – oh yeah, then go ahead! It’s amazing to me how tolerance is the in word now except there seems to be tolerance for everything and everyone(gays,abortionist, etc…) except Christians. If you don’t like or agree with the app, fine – DON’T GET IT. In that respect it’s like a television station. I have signed the Manhattan Declaration because I believe it. We’re trying to get our message out – though many would like to stamp out any form of Christian expression. Sad day!!! Come on Apple – reconsider! There are others who are offended by your actions. Or maybe you only care about offending a small percentage of people.
Fsck you, Christians. Go take your hypocritical messages of hate elsewhere.
@macbill – Okay, WHO’S the messenger of hate here?
@ rclc
“The Manhattan Declaration (which most commenting here have NEVER EVEN READ) is not hate speech (unless the Bible is hate speech)”
Is the Koran hate speech when it suggests killing of infidels?
If not, then should Apple support an app that suggests the same?
If so, then why do you think the Bible’s hate speech is more okay than the Koran’s?
Apple doesn’t want fart apps, either. They both stink.
It wouldn’t matter if the app was a book of cookie recipes. Apple can reject whatever they want. It’s their store and they make the rules. Don’t like it? Move on and get it elsewhere. Personal responsibility… a trait lacking in automatons with their mob mentalities…
I guess this means that my pro-gay anti-christian app doesn’t have a hope in hell.
he he he….
Apple can do any damn thing they want to. It is their product. If the Christian alliance doesn’t like it, I’m sure they will do just fine on Hemorrhoid… errr… Android or Web O’Mess… err… Web OS.
Wait, I think God just spoke to me… no, that must have been a bit of undigested pie.
Kinda funny reading about intolerance from the Christians, considering the writings (including the bible) is seriously anti-gay. Kind of like barking from the safety of their dog house of worship.
Oh by the way, any organized group that explicitly tells me to join or burn in hell for eternity… can burn in hell for eternity.
Although I’m not gay, any group that says you will burn in hell for eternity because the person you fell in love with has the same equipment you do, can also burn in hell.
You can submit an app that defends civil rights or helps people exercise their civil rights, but you cannot submit an app that seeks to deny other peoples’ civil rights. This is a pretty straightforward policy. You cannot force a store to carry products meant to impinge on others’ civil rights.
@ rclc
As a Christian, I am saddened by your signing that.
@Seeker
I could care less about what Apple does/does not do with their app store. If you wish them to have the “Declaration,” please, by all means, sign their little petition. But please leave the whole right/left debate out of it. You’re right wing. I get it. Doesn’t make you correct.
WAY TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!
Christian teachings what a joke.
Organized hate and discrimination. As well free pass to inflict injury. Can you say Tillman Murder?
If gay rights are to be protected, how long before the government requires the protection of child molesters. After all, it’s not their choice, it’s just the way they are. Will every network want to ensure that they have the “new” demographic being treated and represented positively in their programming? It would appear that if you wait long enough, everything but morals will be tolerated.
Yes I agree that Apple (as a private company) can accept or reject any app they want. I WANT them to have that right. However, their reasoning (again, coming from an Apple lover) is poor to say the least. “It may cause harm” … “it might offend”. How about the rest of us (many of us by the way) who do believe these truths. No big deal if we’re offended. Also, as I’m reading the comments on this post, and the only comments that seem to be filled with “hate” are those with anti-Christian comments. As I said, tolerance for everything and everyone except Christians. It’s one way only now a days, but Jesus warned of these days too.
@Amerrican:
America isn’t getting a reputation for having wackjob religious fanatics – study your American history… America was FOUNDED by wackjob religious fanatics and the American landscape has been home to the craziest cults in the world.
As far as Apple’s stance… I’m quite happy with their choice to stay out of it. Honest, I don’t feel it’s that their faith is “potentially harmful to others.” It’s more likely that their faith’s followers are “potentially harmful to others.”
There sure are a lot of gay fag sausage-swallowers on this site.
Hint: Lay off the man pudding for a second and get a clue. You can have a secular civil union to brand your abnormal “lifestyle choice,” but you can’t have “marriage.”
As a gay apple fan boy, I am proud of apple for this rejection. Rclc, the problem is your religion is a belief and not a fact. I do not share your beliefs. Your non-tax paying churches inject themselves into Politics. I don’t come into your church and tell you how to worship but you want to come into my house (under my roof) and dictate my happiness. Well fsck you.
When apple donates money to fight prop 8 steve said it was a civil rights issue not a political. That is Apple’s POV and end of story.
This is no different than Walmart not selling explicit CDs.
@mactricity – I am saddened by your not wanting to sign it. Christians who reject the truths of the Bible are free to believe what they want. It’s all “relative”. They can take what they like and throw out what they don’t like.
@Mike f – My belief system touches EVERY area of my life – including politics – yes, how I vote. That what true belief systems do. BTW, I assume that gays have “no political agenda”?
Has anyone see how many apps are on the Bible? There are like 10 Plus pages of Iphone Apps Free and Paid. Do we need another Religious app in the store? Maybe the the target audience should not be people who believe in Technologies and Science. We believe on Darwin and the right of all people to live as they see fit as long as it does not infringe on another life.
@Latentimage – Again, let me say it. No one has to buy or install the app, so what’s the big deal. Maybe it’s just likeminded people looking for others who believe like them. I seriously doubt that those who disagree with the app would install it or even give it any time at all. So, why are they all crying out to have it removed? I seriously don’t understand. … My cable company provides porn stations for those who wish to view it. I prefer not to so I don’t have any of those stations on my TV. But I don’t spew hate toward those who do or demand that TW remove the stations. … Back to Apple. Yes, they do have Bible Apps that pretty much say the same thing (as well as so much more) as the Manhattan Declaration, and they allow those. How long before they remove those “hate filled” apps too?
I’ve been a Christian for almost 62 years. Kudos to Apple for taking a stand against the haters. Jesus didn’t say anything about gay people. He said many things about justice and mercy. Do unto others and all that.
@KathleenVS – As I stated earlier, there are “Christians” who choose the parts of the Bible they want and reject other parts they disagree with. With no absolute truth, everything become relative to the whims of anyone. *(BTW, just because we believe something is morally wrong doesn’t equate that with “hating people”. I think that people who steal from others is wrong, but would still reach out to them in love.) I’ll state it again, most of the hate filled comments I’ve read here have been against Christians, not the other way around.
I’m just curious: why do so many who profess to be Christians (or most any religion, for that matter) lack the ability to discern the difference between allegory, parable, and factual history? I really don’t understand.
Knowing the source of the Declaration, and having a very clear handle on Freedom of Speech, my guess is the the Declaration contains a significant amount of rhetoric that, recited aloud and directed toward a just-out (or outed) high school kid, would be considered an outrageous example of bullying. The kind that continues to lead many gay teens to suicide.
Sufficient reason to reject the app on simple grounds of human decency. Something that organizations like this want us to believe is at the heart of their mission, but whose behavior and speech betray.
They have an f’ing web app for it…
@8^þ – Actually most Christians do understand the difference between allegory, parables (which Jesus used often) and factual history. We just happen to believe that TRUTH can be spoken through all of them.
@rclc You also pick and choose among Bible verses. Do you condone slavery? Polygamy? Subscribe to the Leviticus Code? Reading the Bible is not really enough. It must be understood within the context of its history. Do you think God faxed the King James version down? A biblical scholar you surely aren’t.
@Scubaboy – So I guess a Christian teen, if he or she were reading many of the comments on this posting could possibly go out and commit suicide too.
Again, most of the true hate speech that has been posted has come from those speaking against Christians. People must understand that believing something is morally right (marriage between man and woman, not taking the life of a baby inside the womb, speaking hateful toward other people) is not the same as hating those who disagree with them.
Apple is not listening to what this group is saying. Listen up, Apple, and you will see that these people affirm life, marriage, and freedom. Disagreement does not equal hate. Apple should stop acting like the 1984 commercial that made them famous.
@KathleenVS – Actually great comments Kathleen. I’m a New Covenant Christian. That means that we believe that Jesus fulfilled the law – especially that which was pictures, types, shadows symbols – of the truth that was to come. “Hermeneutics” is rightly interpreting the Bible by the Bible. For Christians, this is looking at the OT from the perspective of the NT. So, I actually agree with you that when people base a belief system on something found ONLY in the Old Testament, that is dangerous. However, the truths in the Manhattan Declaration are all upheld in the New Testament. However, so is grace, forgiveness and love. I know, because I was most undeserving of any of it; yet am a recipient of it.
Sad to see how confused posters here what free speech is all about.
This is what decades of fast food and TV brainwashing has done to the American public.
@ron – you sound like marriage is something to be proud of….. yeah…. I know…. you’re one of those “Sanctity of Marriage” freaks that is probably on his 3rd marriage…….
Yesterday’s Notes from MND’s staff-meeting:
Jeez, hit counts am little low for the year.
Well, political posts draws like flies to shit.
And hey, throw in a little religion – nothing like ol’ time religion.
Yeah, and something about gay-bashing to draw the looney libs
Holy shit Steve, great idea!
Throw in a mention of Fox News, just for insurance….
Steve, you are the Queen of hit-whores!
Liberty is dead. In 20 years we’ll all be c*nts.
Do any of you know that Apple supported gay marriage (Prop 8) in the 2008 CA elections? Don’t like it? Go buy a Samsung phone and a Dell PC.
@rclc the one and ONLY agenda gays have ever fought for is equal rights and privileges under the law. If your church chooses not to accept gays, fine no one is forcing you to. But I pay the same share of taxes as anyone else and deserve equal rights, privileges,and protections under the constitution I pay to defend.
Oh how surprising. The people behind the Manhattan Declaration didn’t get their way, so now they’re writing psuedo-religious propaganda against Apple again.
“500,000 Christians have signed the Manhattan Declaration”
Wow! Almost 500,000? That’s like every Christian in the world ever! No, wait. There are somewhere north of 1 billion people claiming to be Christian, so these almost 500,000 Manhattan Declaration singers comprise an extremely insignificant number of them.
“Apple is telling us that the apps’ content is considered “likely to expose a group to harm” and “to be objectionable and potentially harmful to others.” Inasmuch as the Manhattan Declaration simply reaffirms the moral teachings of our Christian faith on the sanctity of human life, marriage and sexual morality, and religious freedom and the rights of conscience, Apple’s statement amounts to the charge that our faith is “potentially harmful to others.”
The Manhattan Declaration seeks to reaffirm homos as being subhumans and deny them the same liberty that heteros get to enjoy. Your “faith” is potentially harmful to others. And I put that in quotes because it’s just bigotry dressed up as “faith” to justify it, which is quite an insult to legitimate Christianity.
“It is difficult to see how this is anything other than a statement of animus by a major American corporation against the beliefs of millions of Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox citizens.”
Almost 500,000 is not several million, dear. So it’s real easy to see this as something other than a statement of animus against the beliefs of millions. Please learn to count.
The corporation’s leaders must be made to understand that they do the country no good service in capitulating to efforts to stigmatize, marginalize or defame people on one side or the other in important moral debates.
You mean like the Mahattan Declaration’s efforts to stigmatize, marginalize, and defame people who are attracted to the same sex? Yeah, I agree. It would do the country no good service for Apple to capitulate to that.
@Seeker of Truth
“You wouldn’t be saying this if they had removed an app for controversial gay marriage.”
Gay marriage doesn’t stop people from having any rights, whereas the Manhattan Declaration specifically intends to stop people from having rights. See the point?
Probably not.
Dont these retarded slack-jawed knuckle draggers have enuf hate with the Rush Fat-Ass Limbarf app? Hate theres an app for that
This is getting way overblown. Here’s how I look at it and I think this is the right answer. I own a retail gift store. I carry all kinds of products. I don’t carry anything related to smoking, however, because I think it’s unhealthy and dangerous. No one will ever be able to make me carry cigarettes, cigarette lighters, or anything of the like. Would anyone here assert that the state or some other party should be able to force me? Same with Apple. It’s a private corporation. What it carries is its own decision. You don’t like it, then don’t buy Apple. It’s an open market and anything beyond that is inconsistent with American ideals of free market capitalism.
God is imaginary. If only people would accept this obvious fact, there would be no controversy.
In fact, if it wasn’t for religions (and especially christianity) burning our best minds at the stake and stifling original thought, we’d probably have eradicated poverty and hunger, be running OS XXX on quantum computers, and have colonies on Mars.
Face the facts, religitards: God is Imaginary
@NHL
I had to put the smiley face to make sure idiots like you got. You got it; I’m proud of you. Did the smiley face do it for you?
@liopapa
Tyranny? What a dumb statement. Whose asking you to download the app? Nobody on the RIGHT is forcing anything down your throat.
With all the predictable irrelevant responses here, I can see why the country went the way it did in November with the so-called tea baggers. That’s only the beginning. Wait until 2012.
I’m Libertarian, so I don’t care what you do or believe (unless it harms another person), so stick a sock in it with your predictable stupid accusations about the RIGHT forcing their ways on you. Simply untrue. The only point about the app is that for all of human history marriage has been between a man and a woman, and now a minority wants to redefine it. Live with and have sex with whomever you want, but it ain’t marriage.
…Manhattan Declaration singers?
lol @ self.
Why do I keep proofreading my comments after I post them? Geez.
Believe what you want to believe, just keep it to yourself. No one else cares, no one else should; especially a global corporation (or any government if you want to get picky). Have to applaud Apple for keeping it that way. You want to keep a manifesto on your phone? Type it up and put it there – no one else is interested; it does not need to publicly displayed for an army of disciples to make it the “number one download” for a week to “prove” something.
The declaration does nothing, it says nothing, it means nothing that hasn’t been done or said throughout history – “we are right, you are wrong ; and if you disagree, you are persecuting us”.
Get over yourselves; there are new levels of Angry Birds to get through – that is more newsworthy than a bunch of hypocrites who have forgotten what the definition of what hate speech truly is.
@ Ubermac
Mayhaps you need to refresh yourself on what “free speech” is. It is *not* a requirement that Apple host any and all comers to their store. Anyone is free to advocate whatever lunacy — within legally defined limits — that they wish. No private entity is required to be a purveyor. Eg. rclc is free to quote the Bible to whatever end he wishes, as I am free to quote the Upanishads if I wish; however, MSN does *not* have to provide either of us, or you, the space on their boards to pontificate.
@ rclc
I am an apostate who is very curious…
How do you reconcile a hermeneutical interpretation of the Bible with the facts that
– the King James Version is a translation by committee (with some word choices made so as not to offend the king)
– the KJV is also not the complete canon, but a subset chosen by the Council of Trent in 1546
– the Talmudic oral tradition led to the OT, so that OT was to be interpreted in light of that tradition (Jewish hermeneutics are very different from Christian).
On the other hand, MDN isn’t the place for that discourse.
Seems to me the creators of this app are some great IRL trolls.
Also, I’m guessing the creators or their supporters google “manhattan declaration” to see where it’s being discussed so they can go troll there too.
” that our faith is “potentially harmful to others””
Quoted from the article.(selectively quoted)
And I thought these folks didn’t get it.
For Everyone out there that is so convinced that they Know god is out there judging/watching/dying/whatever, the majority of the planet think your wrong.
You know Muslims are wrong? They know the same about Christians. Think mormans have odd ideas? Examine just about everything that is claimed in any other Christian church.
Providing my my life, liberty or my pursuit of happiness isn’t at risk, I don’t care what consenting adults decide to do , Marry, live with each other, paint each other with blue dye, why do you care?
Some vague concept of morality? The same morality that a thinks being homeless and starving to be the victims problem? The same morality that has a divorce rate threw the roof? That has society idolize people that cheat on their spouses, arrange dog fights, use public funds to bail out private business, if that’s what your talking about, it’s time to change.
So Apple is taking a stand, doesn’t matter whether I agree or not ( but I think this is a slippery slope, they allow web browsers that allow me to find sites that are anti-everything) Apple is a company tha is working their products as they want.
But seriously, there are way worse problems in the world than worrying why two guys want to marry each other. Why does anyone marry each other? That’s your answer.
BTW I doubt I will ever read any more of this thread, so don’t bother trying to bait me. Because I know I’m “Right” <— insert smiley face
Good for Apple!
I do believe in free speech, and eventually this app will probably pass. But until then, I’M HAPPY HAPPY!!!
Religion should be outlawed (my personal view) — It causes more harm then good.
Thank you Apple…
Altogether now:
“KEEP YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS TO YOURSELF, PERIOD!”
“Apple’s statement amounts to the charge that our faith is “potentially harmful to others.””
When taken to its extremes, yes indeed. Under similar circumstances, so are most of the other faiths.
“It is difficult to see how this is anything other than a statement of animus by a major American corporation against the beliefs of millions of Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox citizens.”
It is not a statement of “animus.” Apple simply chooses not to publish your information. That does not prevent people from viewing it via a web browser or other means.
Labeling Apple’s actions as “divisive and deeply offensive” does not make it so. The corporation’s leaders have made the choice *not* to capitulate to the pressure from the Manhattan Declaration group. That is both predictable (based on several instance in the past in which Apple stuck to its guns on controversial subjects) and admirable.
Screw the conservative/liberal debates. We are not all that far from a theocracy.
ron
There sure are a lot of gay fag sausage-swallowers on this site.
Another erudite comment from a closeted queer. Stop hating yourself and admit your orientation already.
montex
Just because bigotry is hiding behind religion does not make it decent or moral.
+5 Internets for montex…
rclc
How about the rest of us (many of us by the way) who do believe these truths
They are not truths. They are bigoted proclamations made from a self-asserted position of authority which has never proved itself to worthy of respect. Religious authorities have asserted a myriad of untrue claims for centuries; punishing, persecuting, torturing and murdering those who disagreed with said religious authority. Cling to all the superstitions you want, and proclaim your faith in the existence of your genocidal poltergeist. Outside of your particular religion, it is meaningless.
I just googled, or rather, Bing’d, “Manhattan Declaration” on my iPhone. I found it. It’s right there. I’m looking at it. So calm down.
“Apple’s statement amounts to the charge that our faith is “potentially harmful to others.”
This is the only truthful thing that these twats have said. Because it’s true. Strident declarations of religious beliefs issued with authority based on nothing but a childish belief in an imaginary super-friend are harmful. History has shown this again and again and again.
<b>If Apple is in good faith, perhaps they will be willing to submit this matter to arbitration.,/b>
This isn’t a negotiation. The Manhattan Declaration is an expression of bigoted religious opinion based on superstition. It’s done. Move on.
@dudeman – Hallelujah!
@Seeker of the Truth: you’re no more libertarian than I’m republican or democrat, judging by your use of the word “majority” and your espousal of the idea that companies should just willy-nilly bow to the wishes of some publicity-seeking cartel. A true individual and true free-market companies believe in personal responsibility, individualism, and freedom to enact their own policies. Everything you have posted is the exact opposite of true libertarianism and objectivism. You have, through your inept deception, succeeded in nulling your weak arguments and I shall waste no more time with you and your trolling.
As Atlas, I have shrugged…
To all those protesting Apple’s decision: If you’re so upset by Apple’s decision, how about you start selling “The Origin of Species” in church bookstores, and teaching evolution at Sunday school.
Regarding religion, here’s a good link: http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm
Opposing hate is always a good and Christian thing to do.
There is nothing worse than bigots hollering under the banner of religion.
Hooray for Apple on this one!
Tom O’Connell
@Reality
“In the last U.S. presidential election, neither Biden nor McCain nor Obama nor Palin supported “same-sex marriage.”
So what?
Kudos to Apple. Keep that (Manhattan Declaration) kind of garbage out of the app store.
Yet I can download OliveTree or Accordance Bible iPhone apps from which the Manhattan Project is based! Shhh else Apple might ban these…
Apple is not censoring anything, they are simply disallowing the app in their market. That’s not censoring. Censoring would be to allow portions. Kudos to Apple for showing a little taste. I think there are enough other venues for these zealots to spew their diatribe.
There sure are a lot of gay fag sausage-swallowers on this site.
If you are a Christian, you should forgive them their sins. Turn the other cheek. Etc.
Deity’s come and deities go, they fall in and out of favour — just look at your days of the week, in English they’re named after pagan and Norse gods not Christian ones.
Apple are a business and they obvious realise that their customer base includes non-Christians be they Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, or non-believers who also have ‘conscience’ and also Christian customers who don’t agree with likes of Manhattan Declaration; they don’t have to offer this App if they don’t want to.
I think it’s pretty funny that it has been signed by many protestant denominations including “Catholic bishops.”
Since when is a Catholic also a Protestant? Doesn’t work that way.
@ Ubermac
there is a difference between companies and governments censoring things
and frankly that should be a web page not an app
Christians are very superstitious . Clause out sells god app always
Go to the App store and count the number of bible apps. I stopped counting when I reached 400! ‘Nuf said.
@howlongbefore?
Hmm. So, you would equate consensual adult relationships (injurious to none) with child molestation, which most, if not all of society, save perhaps for the perpetrators themselves, would agree is abhorrent and destructive, at least to the defenseless minor? Or are you simply trying to make the case that the rest of us should condone your behavior?
If you actually read the gospels, you will find that Jesus was a pretty easy-going guy. In fact, about the only sin he never, ever, forgave was self-righteous religious hypocrisy.
Why should Apple tolerate what Jesus would not?
@Rclc
‘ “It may cause harm” … “it might offend”. How about the rest of us (many of us by the way) who do believe these truths. No big deal if we’re offended. Also, as I’m reading the comments on this post, and the only comments that seem to be filled with “hate” are those with anti-Christian comments. As I said, tolerance for everything and everyone except Christians. It’s one way only now a days, but Jesus warned of these days too.’
What. The. Fuck.
You get offended that you can’t make everyone else hear what you want them to believe? You’re just as repugnant as those jerks that keep passing by with their cars playing trash songs at max level. Want your precious little declaration? Fine. Do it in the Internet, where there are no rules for loud car music, not in the orderly community that is the App Store.
Thank God I’m An Atheist
Manhattan Declaration clearly states that gay people (and those that practice polygamy) are immoral. (Ironically, polygamy IS supported in the Bible.) Apple is under no obligation to support applications that demean a segment of the population.
So, 500,000 Christians support this Bible-wrapped bigotry? Well, the 10,000,000 gay Americans (3% of the populous – low estimate) out-number them just a bit. So who’s the disenfranchised minority now, hate-mongers? Apple knows who’s buttering their bread… and it’s not these homophobes.
@Ron: Those that are so vehemently anti-gay are almost always self-loathing closet-cases. See you at the gay pride festival, douche bag.
“Manhattan Declaration clearly states that gay people (and those that practice polygamy) are immoral.”
Incomplete. The Bible claims that everybody is immoral, including Christians.
Wow. Five pages. Of trolls. Good job, everyone is a winner today!!! (except for a few of you). I would be offended if an anti anything app came out. Even if it was within my
Morals. No anti catholic apps, thank you. And definatly not anti Muslim. I’ve had my dose of hateful already today, thank you.
There already is a Muslim app that describes thier belife. Why can’t they have theirs too…..
@rclc, you say: “If you don’t like or agree with the app, fine – DON’T GET IT. In that respect it’s like a television station.”
I say the same back to you rclc, and your kind. If you do not like marriage betwen two people of the same sex then marry someone of the opposite sex, your marriage will not change, just like television, don’t like LOGO channel, then watch FOX News. Why do you have to force your religion where it is not wanted? It is in fact YOUR religious views, keep them to yourself.