“Since my post yesterday about the $20 iPod touch software update several readers have contacted me to explain how Apple had to charge for this update because of generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP). This issue, so I’m told, is much the same as the way Apple had to charge $1.99 the 802.11n enabler for the Intel-based MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Personally, I don’t buy this,” Adrian Kingsley-Hughes writes for ZDNet.
“According to experts it is important to note that there’s nothing in the GAAP requirements that forces Apple to charge its customers for a software upgrade. The only requirement imposed by GAAP is that Apple must account for the separate value that the software brings,” Kingsley-Hughes writes.
Here are the new apps that have been added to the iPod touch:
• Mail
• Stocks
• Maps
• Weather
• Notes
Kingsley-Hughes writes, “To try to justify that any of this offers a $20 value is hard, especially when you consider the overall value that MacBooks and MacBook Pro customers got from the 802.11n switch on. Over the life of a MacBook that has to represent more than $1.99 worth of value if I’m paying $20 for a few apps, does it not?”
Kingsley-Hughes writes, “And finally, can someone please tell me what the difference is between the iPod touch upgrade which costs money and the Apple TV upgrade with is free and transforms an existing Apple TV device into what PC World is calling a substantially different product?”
More in the full article here.
One could say that those who purchased iPod touch knew what the device did and thought the price was right for what they were getting. If iPod touch users want to add more functionality for $19.99, then can. If they don’t, they don’t.
However, with Apple TV getting a massive upgrade for free and iPhone also getting significantly upgraded for no charge, it’s almost impossible to explain to consumers why Apple’s charging for one, but not the others. (We say “almost impossible to explain” because iPhone and Apple TV are amortized over 24-months, iPod touch is not; therein lies the rub) The better question: Is the update worth $19.99?
For consistency’s sake at the very least, Apple should either charge for all upgrades of this type or for none or do a better job of explaining upfront that, unlike iPods and other products, iPhone and Apple TV are special cases that are subject to free upgrades over a certain period.
[UPDATE: 11:58am EST: Fixed incorrect link code that was affecting display of the full MDN Take.]
oh, just pay it already.
bitch and moan, bitch and moan.
that is all people
I didn’t like paying.. but.. man oh man.. is this worthwhile.. It was well worth the 20 bucks, imho.
It transformed my ipod into a pda.. Just being able to read, send, and store email is a big plus.. especially when I can now read .xls, .doc, and pdf documents on my iPod. Not to mention that the google maps application is freakin awsome!
Call me a fanboy.. but if you have an iPod touch and don’t do this.. your a fool.
He’s right. I’m an Apple Fan… but this was lame.
“Personally, I don’t buy this,” Adrian Kingsley-Hughes writes for ZDNet.”
Personally, I don’t care that you don’t buy this, you cheap bastard.
Too many hit whores oozing from stained house trailer carpet.
I think Apple should give away all of its software for free…from here to infinity….those greedy bastards.
If you do not want the extra Apps … then do not buy them … you bought the iTouch without them .. Apple is giving you something more for a few more bucks!! If everything were free the stock would reflect it ..
How about you pay it for me and I won’t bitch and moan…
good god, you pay over 40% of your income to taxes (state, fed, sales, property, fica, ect ect ect combined)
you don’t complain about that.
Really, I think it should be $1.99 per app. And you can pick which ones you want.
What makes no sense is that they are giving it for free on new iPod Touch models.
There must be something to do with licensing for the Maps, Stocks, and Weather apps… That costs Apple something. Because all sorts of software upgrades on the iPhone have cost zero/zilch/nada
“And finally, can someone please tell me what the difference is between the iPod touch upgrade which costs money and the Apple TV upgrade with is free and transforms an existing Apple TV device into what PC World is calling a substantially different product?”
Because the they are accounting differently for the iphone and the apple tv than they did for the ipod touch.
from CFO Peter Oppenheimer:
“The executive said that it will report revenues attributed to both devices on a subscription-like basis, rather than count only the one-time costs associated with each device as they occur.
Both the phone and media hub will receive a relatively steady amount of software features for free over their respective lifespans, meaning that the income from each sale in effect amortizes the software development costs after the product is released.”
Twenty bucks to add programs I didn’t think would ever be available on my device. Took two seconds to approve that purchase.
For those that complain, why are you ok with a $79 price tag for iLife when buying a new Mac gets you that stuff free?
It’s the same thing.
it is greed in my opinion.
also making users who want these apps but iTunes store is not available in their country angry. no way to get the upgrade withou itunes store.
Complaining over $20 is silly, but if it now comes on any new iPod touch now for free, I can understand some grumbling. If Apple continued to make it a $20 updgrade, in a way that would actually be better. It would be like buying additional software.
Clearly there are aspects of the optional new software that Apple did not author and must pay a license fee to distribute. The terms of the license must already cover new shipping iPod Touch’s but require the fee for retro upgrades.
Maybe I’d be more sympathetic if they charged me $20 for my iPhone update. I don’t know. That being said, the improvements made to the iPod are far more substantial than the improvements made to my iPhone. Is it worth $20? Yeah, probably. It’s $4 an app, which is peanuts, really.
From the start the Apple TV and iPhone were going to be accounted for over 2 year periods with for the very reason that they were going to develop the product and add extra features. An iPod has always been a fixed product, you buy a particular model based on its specs and which one best suits you. The iPod Touch came with fewer apps than the iPhone to begin with, apps that could have been included but weren’t. There should have been no expectation that there would be updates or that if there were they should be free.
Once the iPhone has been out for a couple of years and we get subsequent versions I doubt they’ll continue the practise. We’ll likely just get new OS versions like with Macs – for a cost.
I’m not saying its worth $20 but that’s a different issue.
There should be continuity, it really is nonsensical why the Touch users get boned and the iPhone users enjoy a free roll.
I think it’s principally because anything relating to the iPhone would garner massive media coverage, presumably vilifying Apple since mainstream media is so eager to exploit any iPhone hype. While the Touch demands far less media scrutiny outside of fanboy worlds such as ours.
People are forgetting that this upgrade utilizes SkyHook technology for the maps function. I’m sure that Apple had to pay SkyHook a licensing fee and that the $20 is related to that.
The iPhone doesn’t require the SkyHook technology for Google Maps, so the upgrade didn’t cost Apple anything.
This is probably the only really valid complaint of all the incessant whining we’ve been hearing.
The same whiners will buy beer and pay a pemium for pizza and delivery that ingredientwise, costs about $3 to make on Super Bowl Sunday. Not only will they spend $30 to $40 bucks minimum for a one night game, they will tip the delivery guy at least $5.
A $20 UPGRADE IS NOTHING!!! Bunch ‘o’Whiners
If the ZDNet dude doesn’t think these apps are worth 20 bucks, then he shouldn’t buy them. That’s pretty simple. What’s his point? If they’re that worthless to him, why does he even write about them? He apparently won’t be using them anyway.
I will say, however, that I think Apple made a mistake originally when they gimped the iPod touch by omitting these apps. I’m glad they fixed the mistake for future buyers.
If the author did their homework or actually contacted an accountant, they would learn that providing major new funcionality that did not exist (or promised) when the product was sold would require an expense on Apple’s P&L;. AppleTV is accounted for like iPhone (subscription) and future funcionality was implied.
Why should a software company give away its main product for free? Remember, this is major new funcionality and not just an upgrade of existing features. If classic commerce is becoming greed, then I think you fools need to look in the mirror for the problem.
____________
Sent from my iPhone (with Mail, Google Maps, etc. included and already paid for)
Here is my take on it.
There is a fine line between free upgrades and charging for it.
People that purchased iPhones have to commit to spending money on the device for the next 24 months. Also, apple is treating the iPhone like it would a computer. Some upgrades are going to be free. The ability to SMS multiple people is not a “new feature” it was something they probably thought wouldn’t be a big deal. However, it turned out to be some of the most commonly regarded disappointments about the iPhone (and trust me, there are not many disappointments, it’s a sweet device).
The multiple SMS was a fix. Remember, they are going to Firmware 1.1.3, not 2.0. If they were going to 2.0 with a ton of new apps and features, then they would probably charge for it.
On the iPod touch, just like every other iPod, you get what you pay for. Once you see it, you like it, then you buy it. You don’t expect new features to be added to it for free. The iPod touch wasn’t designed to be an email client or a mapping companion. It was designed to play music. They only stuck Safari on it so that when you are on public WiFi, you can accept the web page that makes you agree to the terms. That way you can get on WiFi iTunes at places like starbucks and such.
Now they are saying, “Hey, if you want to add more functionality to your iPod touch and turn it more into a PDA type device, then for $20 you can do it”. They included it in the new iPod touches because honestly, who would want to buy it without it. For all that matters, they could add $20 to the price and add them and people would still buy them.
I don’t think GAAP has anything to do with it.
As for the AppleTV, Steve basically in laments-terms said “the first one was a failure, so we are going to recall them all and replace them with a new one.”
You don’t see Tivo, or MovieBeam, or any of those other guys recalling their devices or offering a new device in it’s place. Apple just did something that really hasn’t been done before and it won’t cost them really any money to do, but the customer service side is going to be spectacular.
I think they way it was handled was perfect. Good job Apple.
$20 for an iPod touch software upgrade?
And the flogging will continue until the moral improves.
“If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth — and get busy (milking?) on the next great thing… – Steve Jobs
Just ignore the updates. Or else buy them if they are worth 20 $.
It’s that simple.
Here’s the solution:
1. Google “Sarbanes-Oxley”.
2. Shut up.
Remember the fiasco with the price reduction on the iPhone? Enough users complained and were rewarded!
If enough of you complain and loudly enough SJ will probably give you a credit of $10-20 to use on future purchases at apple.com.
Buying software for a computing device is a no brainer. If you want the enhanced functionality that the software gives you, buy it. If you don’t, don’t buy it.
If you want the software but you don’t want to pay for it, steal it. But remember, if you do the crime …..
If you can’t live with this rationality, STFU.
$20 too much for a software upgrade that people will use day by day, but $20 for a lap dance that lasts 3 minutes is A-OK.
iPhone users are being charged for each upgrade. It’s build into the AT&T;subscription.
I don’t agree with forcing iPod touch users to pay $20 for upgrades though.
Funny thing is, as of yesterday, the iPod touch is 20 euros cheaper here in Holland. So the difference is now about 38 euros. That’s too much to justify for what are basically 3 iphone apps and 2 dashboard widgets. They’re all useful, but come on!
Why not throw early adapters a bone here and make the upgrade a symbolic 0.99 or 1.99
The Mail & Maps apps alone are worth $20 to me.
I did try to update my iPod Touch, but through some “glitch” yesterday, Apple ended up double-billing me for $42.18 and the update never downloaded.
I contacted Apple by email and by phone yesterday. I was told it would be taken care of today, but so far I haven’t heard anything back from them.
Trying to be patient, but starting to get a little frustrated.
1. The Touches should continue to be sold with the apps they originally were shipped with.
2. Apple should have released these 5 apps as an “Expansion Pack” or “Plus Pack” or whatever so it appears to be more equitable across the board.
I downloaded the software package yesterday, and felt like I got a new iPod! Having the mail program alone was worth the $20, just Google Maps is worth the $20! Add the stock tracker and weather info, and that’s just more frosting on the cake!
I look at it this way. iPod Touch users have a choice to pugrade their device, if they want, to add features that us iPhone users already paid for.
iPhone users didn’t get their upgrade for “free” by a long shot, especially those that paid $599 for one last June only to see it drop to $399 a mere 60 days later.
We pay AT&T;$60+ per month every month to simply use our iPhones, while no iPod touch user ever has to pay a dime after the original purchase to use their product. So I’m not exactly sympathetic to the whiners out there over this trivial $19.99 fee for a major upgrade.
“I don’t agree with forcing iPod touch users to pay $20 for upgrades though”
Show me where people are being ‘forced’ to buy this. I’ll wait.
@ ChrissyOne
Well put.
just jailbreak it you ninnies
Personally, I’m glad Apple even offered it.. Usually, if they come out with new features, you have to give up a perfectly good product to buy a whole new one just to get some extra features.. I’d much rather have the option to pay for new features than be locked out of having them at all. Sure, it’s a bit pricey for the upgrade, especially knowing it was already developed, but I’m happy to have it.
Could it be that those who are bitching the most are switchers who come from a world where everything was free, if you know what I mean?
Or those who don’t even own a Touch and are just haters and would like to make everyone else feel just as miserable as they feel?
The next round of bitching will be when these same people begin whining that the battery in the Airbook can’t be swapped out. Yup, that’s right, and they will never own one…
“Comment from: deepdish
good god, you pay over 40% of your income to taxes (state, fed, sales, property, fica, ect ect ect combined)
you don’t complain about that.”
You need to check out Ron Paul… abolish the IRS and income tax. After that we will all have more money in our pockets and hopefully some of the bitching will stop.
The Dude abides.
I think that the GAAP was exactly why they charged for it! I would suggest to you all that If you want Apple to keep it’s nose clean put up the $20 and shut up or don’t update to it! No body is forcing you to update your touch to keep it functional, just to add the new features you probably thought would never come to your touch.
They should have just made the new apps available for varying prices through iTunes.. a la carte.. Want Mail? $4.99.. weather widgets? $3.99. Just like software you buy for your mac, or Games you buy for the iPod.
Never buy the first of anything!
anyone know if the ipod update is available for pirating yet?
torrent anyone?
A better question is why is the screen resolution on the Touch inferior to the screen resolution on the phone?
Arrogant Steve’s answer: if you want the good screen resolution, buy the phone.
That, my friends, is an outrage.
Got it. Paid $20
Worth every penny.
Love it.
Thank you.
Should it have been there in the first place or have been a free upgrade? Well, that would have been nice. But so is free beer.
@ Wallace the Man
“Never buy the first of anything!”
For once I agree. Even if I really like the MacBook Air, I’m going to wait for storage to go up and the cost to come down a bit on SSD drives. 128GB would be the sweet spot for me.
“But so is free beer.”
Unless it’s Schaefer Beer or Pabst.
$20 for the upgrades beats having to buy a new touch. I bought an Airport Extreme 3 weeks ago. I don’t suppose there’s a software upgrade that will install the hard drive coming any time soon.
What a bunch of whiners. If you can’t afford 20 bucks then you should not have bought an iPod Touch. Go get yourself one of those cutting edge Zune from MS. By cutting edge, I mean, the best they can do is a new paint job!
The difference is in how Apple records the revenue for each item (I’m an accounting dork). For the iPhone and Apple TV, they defer the revenue over a period of time, based upon the intent/ability to expand and enhance the product….for iPod Touch, they recognize immediately – if they start offering free upgrades they would need to start deferring the revenue for those as well…this is an accounting policy election, and in order to avoid changing that they have to charge for upgrades.
I have no major complaint about the cost. An iPod touch did what it was advertised to do and the upgrade adds functionality. But that is OK for those who can upgrade. This is only available via the iTunes store and a lot of people round the world cannot access this for purchases (podcasts are fine), so will be unable to make that upgrade legally.
Can’t believe this guy is bitching about $20. He probably spends more than that on coffee in a week. Just getting email functionality on your iPod Touch alone is worth $20.
5 new applications for $20.
Think about it.
-The iPhone/iPod Touch SDK will be released next month.
-Developers will be creating new applications for these devices.
-Where are they going to sell these applications? iTunes
-What is the price going to be for these applications? $3.99
This is just readying customers for what is in store starting next month. If you want to put apps on your iPod, you will be paying $4 each for them.
The five that were released yesterday are to ensure that customers at least have a mail client, notes, etc. before the developer community has a chance to make new, different and/or perhaps better versions. If Apple already has their versions on your iPod, a 3rd party will have to really show something exceptional to get you to buy it.
Am I the only one that thought Steve looked a little uncomfortable when he said the price, like it was something they’d had to put in but he wasn’t happy about it?
Here’s my take – the real reason they’re charging for the upgrade is because it violates some terms of the agreement with AT&T;for the iPhone. That’s why the iPod Touch didn’t get those features in the first place. AT&T;put their foot down and told Apple that if they’re going to bring out an almost iPhone clone iPod that AT&T;get no sniff of the profits from that it would have to be a “downgrade” from the iPhone to encourage consumers to get the iPhone instead. Obviously they didn’t consider the lack of the cellphone a big enough draw card to stop people forgetting about the iPhone and getting an iPod Touch instead.
AT&T;saw their profits from the iPhone being pilfered by Apple via the iPod Touch and made it clear they weren’t going to stand for it.
But obviously Apple feels strongly enough about it to do it – so maybe the $20 goes straight into AT&T;coffers to compensate them for their loss?
—
See my technology blog at http://tumbleseed.torrfamily.org/
In the case of GAAP, Apple “recognizes” revenue on AppleTV and the iPhone differently than the iPod Touch. Apple does it over 2 years on the iPhone and AppleTV, but not on iPods. This allows them to offer enhancements to those two products that significantly increase it’s value after the initial sale without running afoul of SEC restrictions.
I own an iPhone, and of course I’m happy about the software upgrade, and I like the fact that it is free. If it were $20, I’d still pay for it.
Personally, I’d be thankful to Apple that I didn’t have to buy a whole new device to get the extra functionality.
I agree with those who had said: BUNCH OF WHINERS!
I just wish they’d put better details about the Mail app on the website. I just find the basic one paragraph blurb and the few pics. I’d like a better rundown of the features, or maybe that’s all there is to it.
I’ll probably upgrade this weekend. I’ve wanted Mail on the touch, and the weather/stocks apps are useful as well.
better question is why is the screen resolution on the Touch inferior to the screen resolution on the phone?
Arrogant Steve’s answer: if you want the good screen resolution, buy the phone.
That, my friends, is an outrage. —Not the Question
Outrage? Is it an outrage that Mazda’s four-door sedan doesn’t come with the same engine as the Z? Grow up!
Can’t believe these people are carrying on about $20. As Apple fanboys, We’d gladly pay $100 for the upgrade or whatever Steve asks for….
Apple products are delicious, sexy, gorgeous, and elegant: that’s a lot more important than functional. The back of our stuff LOOKS better than the front of the other guys, Hahahahahahahaha (everyone laugh at Steve’s joke!!!!!)
Steve ought to raise the the already too high prices of ALL Apple products 20% or more…. We don’t need cheap people… We can’t sell junk (and ANY product without an Apple on it is JUNK)….
I sure we see a New Mini Tower next year!!!! I’d price it out at about $6000 to keep the cheap people away!!
Yesssss!
@ Tom
“I’d price it out at about $6000 to keep the cheap people away!”
If only there were some way to keep you out of our chat rooms, too.
1. The Touch is phenomenal with or without the upgrade.
2. I am buying the upgrade because I want it.
3. I just purchased a 24″ iMac and and a MacBook Pro. I had to pay for them too.
4. I don’t know why Apple charges for somethings and not for others. I give some of my massage clients deals and some not. It’s commerce.
Has this place ever been so whiny? Shut-up already! You sound like a bunch of old women complaining about the price of bananas at the supermarket.
Cheap.
Oh come on. I’m paying an extra $75 a month for the iPhone. That’s why they’re not “charging” me an extra $20.
You iPod people get a great offer — to upgrade your software with some great and very useful apps and all you do is complain.
Maybe what they say about Mac users is true. Ya’ll’er starting to feel entitled.
shogun is the winner this round!
either buy the iPhone and pay per month or buy the touch and pay for major upgrades if you want them.
everyone else shutup, or learn about SOX.
The Early-Whiners are at it again…..
Just my $0.02
P.S. Now we know why SJ did not introduce the G3 iPhone…163 days to go….
Ok, I’ll go with the idea that the $20 pricetag was caused by a GAAP requirement to account for the value of the upgrade for accounting purposes. This in turn is put in place to account for the value in regards to the shareholders from what I understand.
Now, if this is really the case, why hasn’t the pricetag of the Touch being sold as of today also increased by $20?
Seems to me that on one hand Apple is stating that they need to account for the additional value that the upgrade provides, but on the other hand, doesn’t need to account for that increased value on the Touch’s they are selling as of today.
If this is not the case, then are we to believe that they are ‘eating’ the additional cost of adding the apps to the new Touch, and accounting it as such? So the question is, if they are willing to eat that cost on the new units, why are they not willing to eat some of the cost on the upgrade?
I’m not saying the upgrade should be free, but I agree that it is overpriced. And claiming that they had to do this because of a GAAP requirement just sounds like a cop out.
One upgrade (Apple TV) provides for possible new income streams, while the other (iPod Touch) does not. That probably played into the decision to provide one upgrade for free and charge for the other.
Just imagine the bitch and moaning had Apple upgraded the iPhone to 16 GB and kept the price the same.
Microsoft gave away the Zune 2.0 software to buyers of the Zune 1.0 device FOR FREE! Apple using GAAP as an excuse is very very weak. All charging for the update does is make life easier on their accountants. They don’t HAVE to charge.
jesus – what’s with all the bitching? the iTouch was sold as a media player. the maps/mail stuff is extra!
put it this way: if you download street fighter II for your verizon phone, it’ll cost you $8. what’s $20 for a couple of killer apps that turn your media player into a PDA?
With all respect I think you’re missing the point.
Programing costs money. Every software upgrade(excluding bug fixing) is paid for, either upfront, or in other revenue streams.
Apple TV is receiving a free upgrade so apple can make money through movie rentals.
Apple upgrades the iphone to add value to the phone and their relationship with their mobile partners. For this they receive monthly revenue from every phone bill.
Apple is adding value to the ipod touch and $20 is about right(in my humble opinion).
Also remember if Apple can’t charge for software how all these new developers going to make money programming for the iphone and ipod touch.
The 1.99 802.11n upgrade was not a upgrade. It was always there, and planned for in the sale cost of the computer, but could not be activated for standards issues.
@Homie
Upgrade of the Zune for free for what? Ahahaha You guys call that an upgrade? All they did was enable the hobbled device with a firmware update. Because the original coding was crap, they needed time to fix it. Ahahaha.. Listen iPod touch users got real HTM eMail, Google Maps with location enabled, directions. Its practically the entire US Nation Phone/Address directory in the palm of your hands. Notes, Stocks and awesome Weather status from anywhere you go. C’mon comparing that crappy Zune Update to the iPod Touch is like comparing your go cart to our Ferrari! You trolls are funny as hell.
To rickokid: Nice work on the blog.
Umm, maybe they have different screens because they are TWO DIFFERENT DEVICES?! Ever though about that? Wow…
Damn expensive bananas.
Not only do you have to pay if you want the upgrade but it also makes your screen glossier.
Thats Insanity, It’s a good update but it’s not worth $20. maybe $2.99 if Apple wanted to profit. But this should of been something free.
I paid the $20 and it was worth it. Apple is free to charge what they want for any product, including this upgrade. Nothing in GAAP or Sarbands-Oxley requires them to charge for any additional features that they add to a device during the initial warranty period and this would not prevent them from writing off the entire income at once. They could also bundle updates into the extended warranty if they wanted to. There is no magic to adding additional features. Lots of businesses have to make the economic decision whether to charge for upgrading their users to the latest version. That is purely a business decision. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in GAAP or Sarbanes Oxley that compels a business to charge or not charge.
“Should of”?
I think you mean “should have” or the contraction, “should’ve”.
How do you know it’s not worth $20? Compared to what? Your empty wallet?
Petition for free upgrade !
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/freeappi/petition.html
Greatgodamighty, it is so painful reading the stupid comments made by people who simply refuse to listen to the explanation for the pricing differential.
The iPhone’s income has been spread out over 4 year’s for accounting purposes. So, for example, if Apple made $100 profit on the iPhone, instead of indicating a $100 profit in the year the iPhone was sold, Apple would take a $25 dollar profit in year 1 and a $25 dollar profit in years 2, 3 and 4. The only reason they use this convoluted form of accounting is so that Apple can provide free upgrades without having to restate earnings as required by the hideous new accounting laws.
Apple choose not to use this accounting procedure with the iTouch. So they have to – by law – either charge for upgrades or restate earnings each year.
I’m sorry that some people, like the author of the original article “aren’t buying this”. But ignoring reality does not make Apple wrong – it only makes you look foolish and uninformed.
Apple
I wouldn’t have been bothered if these 5 apps would be an extra for _any_ iPod touch. But the ones now in store (the same model like the one that I bought) come with the apps preinstalled, because they come with firmware 1.1.3.
Discrimination between early adopters and current buyers is what’s bothering me.
“Discrimination between early adopters and current buyers is what’s bothering me.”
So, start a classless action lawsuit. Better?
I made the purchase and was DOUBLE CHARGED.
If the itunes store can warn me if I am downloading a free song a second time, why could they not warn me that I was paying twice?
And there is no easy way to communicate to Big Apple that they have done me wrong and need to refund the second charge. There is a button to report a problem. Clicking that seems to get no attention.
not good
“I made the purchase and was DOUBLE CHARGED.”
Tell your credit card company. There’s a free 800 number. They will remove the second charge.
Apple is essentially introducing a new version of the iPod touch – it costs 20 bucks more. If you want to upgrade your existing one – you can.
Makes sense to me.
To all the people whinging: would you have preferred if Apple released an updated iPod touch with the new apps that obsoleted your current purchase?
I think people are confusing “update” with “upgrade”. Updates to existing software are, and should be, free. Upgrades introduce new functionality and often come with a cost. How often, if ever, has anyone got somethin’ for nothin’?
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RE: Randal via iPodDailyNews
Call Apple and let them know you were double-billed.
Here’s the number: 1-800-275-2273
You’re not the only one that this happened to.
This isn’t a major upgrade folks, it’s too little too late. I remember when i got my first ipod and breakout was an easter egg, the update that gave me that as an approved game was free, so was the ability to play gapless albums on later iPods.
Fact is, they had better software on the iPhone, that took time and effort to cripple to put on iPod touch, and iPod touch buyers like myself actually paid for the work that went into that… now we have to pay again if we want to have something undone that we didn’t even ask to have done yet paid for, so we pay twice to get once.
There’s no way in hell you can talk me out of my personal opinion that this is a pretty low move for a company like Apple, whatever their reasoning may be. but really who cares. put some effort into solving world hunger or something, all this bitching isn’t gonna help anyone and ya’ll know it!
What about us, the ones who are willing to pay the upgrade —happily or not— but don’t have access to the iTunes Store? This, believe me, is really outrageous. Why is this the absolutely best option to distribute the upgrade? Is Apple really thinking to own the distribution of the iPhone – iPod Touch Apps through its iTunes Store? That is so absurd. I am really, really pissed off.
Does iPod touch support Yahoo! push e-mail like the iPhone?
Complaining about prices! That’s all former PC users know how to do! Expect more of the same whining as more of them switch to Mac.
I guess it’s a good thing?!
Explain why apple is putting the new software on new iPod touches at no extra charge for them. We end up payin $420, the new buyers pat 400 and get the same
The fact of the matter is that they are punishing early adopters who already paid a permium to get a new device. In other words, they spat on some of their biggest fans.
I don’t care if it saved them a few thousand bucks in immediate benefits – it was a PR move that said “we don’t want to thank you for your loyalty, we want to gut you for it.” I agree that the software is probably worth the 20 bucks, and at first I was going to just click “upgrade now” right away but then I thought about it… I paid $400 for this thing. $400! I knew it was overpriced when I bought it. This is the same $400 that others are paying who get the software for free.
So go ahead and say i’m bitching, say i’m moaning, but it doesn’t change the fact that it was a dick move;)
Anyway, to say thank you right back, I now have no problem just installing cracked versions of the software. I’ll wait a few more weeks to see if the company changes it’s mind.
Oddly enough, 5 years ago when I visited apple’s HQ I remember being told how the company was proud that it could care about and listen to its customers. Sure I don’t expect them to be able to continue this now that they are 20x larger than they were at the time, but at the same time its interesting to see how the nerdy kid can become such a a jerk once he gets a little fame.
– Dan
don’t complain. if you don’t like it, don’t get them. I thought that I needed them. so I just bought that. now I am happy. $20 spending for software upgrade is not waste your money. if you feel not, go and grab burger King. then your belly will be happy too. but that’s all.
This just proves that MS service packs are worthless.
For all of those who think the iPhone owners received its upgrades because they are paying monthly cell phone and data charges to AT&T;, you are wrong. The iPhone users are paying AT&T;, and the other foreign service providers, for services not upgrades.
When you bought your iPhone, you paid, in advance, for all future upgrades. Apple booked a portion of all iPhone sales as unearned revenue with the intent to earn that revenue in the future with upgrades to the product. They hold that revenue in a quasi liability account. As they earn that revenue by issuing upgrades to the hardware’s software, they can reduce that liability and increase actual revenues.
In this instance, when an iPhone user downloads the iPhone 1.1.3 upgrade, Apple will charge the SALE of the 1.1.3 upgrade against that unearned revenue account, the advance payment made when the iPhone was purchased… and increase earned revenues. iPhone users have ALREADY PAID for this and future upgrades.
iPod Touch owners bought their iPod outright… there are no unearned revenues associated with that sale. Under GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles), a company like Apple cannot GIVE away assets because that would be depriving their stockholders of value. The iPod Touch upgrade software is an asset with value… and to properly transfer it to the iPod Touch owners, it MUST be sold for an adequate return on Apple’s investment. If they merely give it away, stockholders would be justified in suing management for decreasing the value of the company. Ergo, it must be sold… and it must be sold for a profit.
Pay the $20 and be happy.
Remember that with the iPhone Apple has a monthly income flow to offset its costs. Not so with the Touch. In my mind the Touch is a great product. I have a contract with another company for my cell phone (better service and price than ATT in my case), but the Touch gives me what my cell phone can’t. It’s a great combo.
i literally just got the ipod touch the day before the upgrade was announced. at the very least it should give people who bought the device within say 1 week a free upgrade.
power of monopoly.
You bought your touch ONE day before the keynote? Well, live & learn my friend……You’ll know better next year,,,,,lol
The fact is that Apple has betrayed customers once more, and for some perhaps for the last time. They are in the process of trying to bring iPod Touch customers back to their palm and away from jailbreaks before they release the SDK in February and third party apps run rampant. However, by charging for apps that jailbroken iPods can get for free Apple is providing no incentive to return. Everyone in the iPod Touch community has been excited about the SDK release for some time, but with this blow from Apple, there is a chance that most users could continue to turn to Installer (through the jailbreak) for their applications and leave Apple out of the mix entirely. Smart move Jobs!
GAAP or whatever, learn the way of Apple. This is not just moaning or bitchin… This is about how apple sees its customers as long term milking cows! If MS should also obey the rules of GAAP, but for some reason they release all their updates for free… Whatever the software you can count, not to mention that they are software company and hence they should charge every bit of updates…
This is one of the reasons apple will stay under shadows, and continue to convince people they reinvent something… All they did is a user interface, which SJ already said in one program on tv. They didnt invent anything but just ease of use UIs… and huge amount of marketing…
Lets get back to the issue of charging as little as $20 for update… If GAAP is an excuse, how do you explain $20 asset, with new devices you get it for free for the same device u bought today, $20 liability? In my opinion nothing to do with GAAP or anything, it is plain BS that apple is using as an excuse and continue to milk people… Something that is invented already 1 year ago, can not have value! it can only have profit! these apps are already programmed a year or so ago, they are just ported?? (in my opinion just copy and paste to ipod and hey new invention) to something that is already proved working… (google jailbreak hackint0sh) u will get them already free… if you feel obliged to pay apple, no one can stop u fanboys, if u believe the bullshit of asset or whatever, you already gave them 300% asset when you purchased the device! so wtf is $20 asset BS? oh yeah it is apple M$ is evil, apple is good, pay all money you have to them…
Here’s the problem.
I purchased the touch after hearing about all the wonderful updates and new apps Apple implied they would come out with.
Nobody, not a soul, even hinted that these updates would cost anything.
And to add insult to injury, Apple is not charging a dime for anyone buying the touch from here on.
That’s crap.
As a consumer, I’m entitled to let large corporations know when I feel I’ve been wronged.
In the past, I’ve done this through emails and phone calls to said companies.
However, since the instant obsolescence of HdDVD, the change in memory configuration on MacBooks from last September, and now this touch upgrade, I’m done purchasing new.
From here on out, I go to Craig’s list and Ebay for my tech needs.
I feel slighted. I feel like I’ve been duped. I keep backing the wrong horse.
That’s just how I feel (and apparently tens of thousands of others…).
Call it complaining, call it bitching, call it whining.
What do I care?
I’m pissed.
hey angryshortguy, i am sure you are not alone being angry… apple has not done this for the first time, and there are enough damn fanboys of apple to tell u how apple should charge u… hey fanboys, u might be damn rich and might have tons of money to give to apple, why dont u just donate all your money to apple? saying things like maps is worth $20, mail worths more… just show how much blind apple fanboys are… maps is google, and all they do is UI to use it, mail is also an interface if u are luck ur mail provider has support for it, not that apple invented anytg, just UI to access it… u can do this already from safari for free anytime… stocks? is also another scam to add to… notes? a basic text editor with nice background… if u still think u should pay for it,dont wait just pay/donate to SJ or wait for the jailbreak
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> fanboys are just blind lovers… what u pay for may be uniqe design doesnt mean u should support it all the way while it is being priced over 300% of its original…also u should expect some respect if u pay 300% profit to apple, and get damn apps free… u should not be a victim for waiting 1 day to buy something.
“…also making users who want these apps but iTunes store is not available in their country angry. no way to get the upgrade without itunes store.”
Yes. Not to be able to get the upgrade is worst. The upgrade should be on Apple Online Stores…
Exactly: outside of the iTMS universe it gets worse. Angry? You bet we are angry…
And certainly using the Online Stores would help, but not much. There are five or six countries where Apple has an Online Store but not an iTMS (mine included). Even if that could resolve my personal issue, what about those customers in countries without iTMS or Online Store? That is why we are angry with Apple.
This is the new mentality … Why should I pay for anything …
I’ve got friends at work making 60 thousand a year who have downloaded whole libraries of recording companies and haven’t paid for an operating system or application their whole lives …
They scam it off the internet ..
They’ll be the ones crying when they lose their jobs because their employer can find someone in China to do what they do for next to nothing …. What goes around comes around …
Happy freeloading you scum!
@ Nick d
ACTUALLY.
The current iPod models in Apple Retail Stores without the newest update have been marked down $20 to compensate for the upgrade. When the iPods with the new apps come in, they will be $299 and $399.
Stop complaining. Check your receipt, if you are still within your return period you can contact a retail store and get a price adjustment.
@eric : it is not the mentality, it s a fact and you probably will not understand anyway as you are a deep fanboy no need to argue…
@anon: that proves the theory of nothing to do with GAAP or anything… it is a pure fact that apple is trying to milk the original owners who bought the device. Never seen in my life that you buy a pda and updates that should be there is not there and being offered as an pay-if-you-want-to-update way… i think it has been always the same mentality with apple and its fanboys. and fanboys so used to it that they even insist they should be charged for something they should get for free. It would be well understood if apple said ok u have updates but we also have extension pack or plus pack that you can have, well-stated! however gaap or whatever bs reasoning is not an excuse… it s just stupid. bcoz if it was an asset really new ipods should have it as and extension pack like people who dont have it ,well, or people who paid 299 for their device should get a $20 rebate (like they re reducing the price for old models in stock) or apple credit so that they can be compansated as well…
i know u fanboys will argue still, for any reason, until world becomes flat again for you guys as the early days of apple…
Come on! It’s 20 bucks for 5 apps, 2 of which are a pretty big deal (maps and email). It differentiated the touch from the iPhone, and now customers have more choice.
The whinger who wrote this article would be happy if they had not altered the iPod touch offering.
And it’s not strictly an “upgrade” since these apps existed on the iPhone when the touch was initially offered. It is just a software package, sort of like Office or iWork that you can buy if you want it. And for a damn good price.
Apple is stepping up and saying no to intentionally crippling a product.
Plus some of these updates make a bit more sense with iPhone’s edge network capabilities. But if you want to use them on WiFi get the upgrade.
“Never buy the first of anything!”
Yeah – sit around for half a year waiting to save 20 bucks. Then you can retire! That’s the attitude.
If you want to be cheap and play it ultra safe, go get a walkman (just not a new model) and save hundreds of $$.
sparrow, it s not about the money really, it s little already, but little or big the excuse apple giving is unforgiveable, and the way it treats its customers is unacceptable.
i dont udnerstand why people dont see the future, if u dont resist being milked for these kind of little things u will be always milked. remember price cut for iphone? 1/3 off of the price just after 2 months? if it doesnt tickle your ears. nothing will…. you can argue that apple is in its all rights to do whatever they want, true cant argue that, but doesnt mean i cant resist either…
it is a software package yeah, but if you are going to do it the right way, do it same for everyone, not just milk the early adapters who helped them gain their revenues… it is becoming more obvious with apple and getting more agressive milking with every new product coming… i hope they dont forget where they were before? because people are waking up now and see the real face of apple… bullshitting pc in your advertising is ok but howabout bullshitting your customers? think about it?
you are right with first adapters
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> though it s even more right than right for apple rock solid proven!
My Jailbroken iTouch can do even more of this stuff. I’ll stick with it.
Sparrow, Sparrow, Sparrow…
I don’t understand the “sit around for half a year waiting to save 20 bucks” comment. Are you saying that I’d only save the $20 on the update if I’d waited to purchase it used?
You seriously think people are getting full price on a used Touch?
That wasn’t even the reason I’m purchasing used.
It’s my way of feel better that I didn’t add to the coffers of these corporations.
Sony, Apple, Warner Bros, Toshiba, the list goes on.
Plus it forces me to actually have patience before making a large purchase on something I’ll regret not waiting for.
It was wrong for Apple to charge early adopters $20 for this upgrade while including it on newly purchased models.
I don’t have a problem with dropping the price on a product, especially a technology product. But this was an opportunity for Apple to really look good in the eyes of it’s customers.
It failed miserably and now has to deal with the backlash.
It was their choice. Now, as a consumer, I’m making choices based on their decision.
It’s how things work in a free society.
@Swordmaker
Apple gets some portion of every monthly payment to att. They wouldn’t dare charge iPhone customers more for for anything. Touch customers… well, you pay more to get more. On your computer you pay for new software programs, don’t you? Seriously, people, come on. It’s software. These programs are neither required nor necessary. If you want these new programs, buy them! If you don’t want these new software programs, then don’t buy them and be happy with what you’ve got!
For those of you who are outraged over Apples greedy slap in the face to its early adopters of first generation products, and there are many of you, let them know. This is is about principle. It is outrageous that those who purchased early have to pay for something that others will get for free from now on. We’re not talking about a new piece of hardware – we’re talking about a download that should be free for anyone who owns an iPod touch.
You can leave Apple direct feedback here:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html
You can also sign this petition:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/ipod-touch-update-fee
If enough people make noise they might just go into damage control mode and do the right thing. Let others know…post the links everywhere you can think to.
@fanboys: can u guys please shut up and try to see the big picture, u guys are becoming apple’s number one whores…. u suck apple “sj”‘s |)ick and pay for sucking his |)ick… u guys are hilarious… all u do is accept everything apple hands out with blindfolded… u guys are really happy sucking… u guys are happy sucking big or small no matter the size is, but hey dont expect everyone is like u… because u like to suck, doesnt mean we have to suck as well… period…
@fanboys: please try to see that world is not flat anymore since 16-17 century
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> it is round now, so see the sphere…
Ha! I own a Zune and the software updates are all free. None of this pay for your updates trash. Thats why everybody should just throw away their ipods and buy Zunes!
ZUNE
IS
THE
BEST!
dude you rock! zune rocks! as well
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> apple will be alsa come down on its knees at some point as well…
Fuck Apple. They’re exploiting their customers at every chance they get. I hope the company goes bankrupt and Steve Jobs gets his nuts ripped off by the angry mob of sexless losers that once worshiped him.
Frankly, I’m not convinced. Anyway, I’m also upset with Apple. I bought an iPod touch the day AFTER the upgrade was announced and since the iPod I bought did NOT have the upgrade, I still had to pay $20 MORE to get the already announced software.
Apple’s charge policy is unfair and unwarranted, especially on new devices sold after the announcement date. I hope Apple won’t become another evil empire which does all it can to milk money out of loyal customers. I gladly bought Leopard and iWork, but this is NOT fair.
I bought 3 itouchs one week prior to Christmas for my kids for $399/itouch….Two weeks after Christmas I’m told I have to pay $20 per itouch to upgrade my itouchs with software which is now included with itouchs being sold after Jan 15th, 2008, for $399….Because I gave Apple my $1,200 two weeks early, they are rewarding me with a $60 additional charge to upgrade my itouchs with software that is now standard…..Sounds like a deceptive way to rip-off some money from early purchasing consumers to me………..Awful similar to the debacle Apple got into whebn they cut the price of the iphone last year after numerous people had just purchased the phone for a higher price……..
Apple makes good design products but started being really annoying and total money monkey… they are trying their best to squeeze every penny… especially they bring a product, people buy, after 1-2 monts they give 50% discount…. if this is not rip off (for fanboys it is OK that if apple gives shit to them they will accept and eat it) i dont know nothing… instead of rewarding their first customers, they are like purposely punishing them for buying products early… what in the world is this business model called? oh i m sure some fanboys will come out and say oh they give refunds / credits etc to reward, yeah right if mass people dont complain they will give only shit (which fanboys love any kind of shit apple says)… apple is doing suck the milk out of the first cows, and suck even more later…. but reward the ones who waits patiently….
maybe if we wait a while, it will be free…?
Let’s be clear about something here. Apple is not charging for the 1.1.3 update. What they are charging for is a software add-on package which expands the capabilities of the iPod Touch. Would everyone be in such an uproar if Apple had announced that this new software package was available to all for $20.00? I doubt it. Where I think they went wrong on this is by including with new touches but making people who already have the touch pay for it. It seems to me that those who purchased from an apple store at least might have some recourse but it would require taking the time to research it. My wife bought her touch to replace a 3rd gen iPod because it died. She bought it at Costco so we likely have less recourse there. On the other hand, she paid something like $20.00 less for it so it kind of evens out.
In any event, my point remains as stated above, this is not a required software upgrade, but rather an extra option that just happens to be free with new Touches just the way iLife comes with every new Mac.
It would be nice if we could CHOOSE which apps we want. I have NO use for stocks!! Notes and mail would suit me. I wouldnt mind paying maybe 4.99$ per application. But all five?? COME ON!!!
@marc:
you are right about apple’s update as extending capabilities, but probably you are lucky as well, as you bought your itouches just at the right time… but how/what would you think that you paid full price like most previous/first owners, and overnight they annouced it the way it is now? Would you be still saying “it is ok”, ” i paid already 3x$XXX price and i am happy to pay another $60 for overnight update”
Apple does not let us choose. They blackmail people to take the update: If people don’t buy it, the automatic sync is disabled as the user is required to manually select “Sync” from the File menu.
There was a discussion thread on the Apple website. Apple has censored it, but it still shows up in the Google cache:
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:UJwn_-JlG9IJ:discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6503733&tstart=0+messageID+6503733&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Basically the “No Thanks” button did not work, causing the iPod Touch software update nag screen to always show up each time the iPod would be plugged in, preventing the automatic sync.
And today, the “Not Thanks” button leads to a page with an “Ok” button that does not dismiss the page, thus preventing the iPod summary page from being displayed, and still preventing the automatic sync from occurring.
This is some scam. In the Apple’s censored discussion thread, one user caved and paid the $20 just to get rid of the Update Nag screen after explicitly mentioning that he did not initially want the update.
—
I just hang up with Apple. They offer no help or explanation.
Itunes is very slow to recognize Ipod without internet access. In my case, it doesn’t. So I have to:
– start itunes
– connect ipod touch
– click on the ipod touch in itunes
– disconnect internet
– wait for the “no internet” nag from itunes
– get access to ipod playlists
– re-connect my internet.
Now why I don’t want to pay $20 for the upgrade? Because if I’m going to be paying $20 for every monthly upgrade, then I might as well buy any other expensive alternative out there. Hardware depreciates 50% in the first year, fully in two. Paying 5% of its value for monthly upgrades, is already an additional charge to the estimated $20 in depreciation I’m paying for owing an Ipod touch.
Apple knows what they are doing. That’s why they go broke every now and then, when the rest of us figure out their B/S
Personally speaking, I am outraged that Apple is charging early buyers of the iPod Touch $20 for a system update that ought to be free.
While I understand Apple’s decision to charge money for the new applications the new $20 “application pack” also includes a SYSTEM UPDATE in the form of the home page editing, web clips, and lyrics features. All of these are updates to the currently existing iPod Touch software and NOT new applications, which means that they ought to be free to all users of the iPod Touch.
Adding insult to injury these applications are all hidden in the 1.1.3 system update, a whopping 104.4mb file that all users must download if they want to fix bugs in the system. These applications can only be used when you pay Apple $20 to “unlock” them, but even if you decide not to buy them they stay on your iPod taking up precious space that could be used for songs, videos, or photos.
Apple is normally wonderful when it comes to providing system support and updates, but having them shaft early adopters and loyal fans like this is offensive and shows that Apple has absolutely no regard for the iPod Touch community.
You can leave Apple direct feedback here:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html
You can also sign this petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/freeappi/petition.html
I have been snatching Apple Ipods since they came up with the flash memory. I still own the first portable MP3 player that came out. Paying $20 it’s not a problem for me. I just don’t believe that any of it’s features adds any value to what I need from an MP3 player.
If Apple could add Exchange Mail to their Iphone, if their Itunes Store collaborated with the other music download sites to offer a wider selection of music, and if their ipods had better technical support, they would have wiped all competition in mobile phones, online music, and mp3 players. It’s like BMW that will not put a darn input sound jack on their stereos and prefer to offer it as an alternative option for $500, when a cheap Hyundai Elantra has it by default on theirs. Is it creed or just some stupid corporate ideology?
The latest Itunes update seems to have taken care of the Ipod software update problem.