“There’s a lot of buzz online about the glossy LCD screen on the new generation of iMacs, called the Aluminum iMac. Some people love it and some hate it,” David Morgenstern blogs for ZDNet.
“A matte surface is better for evaluating color in images,” Morgenstern writes. “From Apple’s viewpoint, most of the target market for the iMac doesn’t care whether the screen is glossy or matte. Then again, some customers will prefer the glossy screen… I can imagine that the glossy screen is also easier to clean and that would appeal to education market customers.”
“‘Apple is trying to discourage iMac sales by pros. With the move to Intel [processors], Apple lost a lot of speed and performance issues between the desktop and iMac. The iMac did almost everything. I mean, why isn’t that 24-inch [iMac] a layout machine? It is. So the only way to discourage a designer is to put a shiny screen on it,’ suggests Karl Lang, a color scientist, product developer and a former colleague of mine at Miro Display.
“So, there’s really nothing wrong with a shiny screen on an iMac. It’s okay to love that shiny screen,” Morgenstern writes. “But if color evaluation is important to you, and you want a Mac, then you will have to step up to a pro machine. Or live with the shine.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Note: Among others, Power Support sells Antiglare film which is made from absorbing liquid crystal filter that reduces the glare from fluorescent and sun light to allow easy viewing. The special Antiglare film not only reduces the utlraviolet radiation emitted from the monitor by 70%, reducing the burden on your eyes but controls the deterioration of your liquid crystal monitor by blocking out ultraviolet light and protects it from scratching and dirt. The Antiglare film is made from a material that does not require tape to apply to the monitor so all you need to do is place over your display. Power Support’s website’s iMac section currently says, “Coming Soon.” We imagine that others, too, will soon be providing anti-glare film for Apple’s 20-inch and 24-inch iMacs.
Reportedly, current iMacs employ anti-reflection technology in their glossy screens. For more in the differences between traditional anti-glare LCD screens (matte) and the new high-gloss anti-reflective LCD screens (featured on Apple’s iMac and MacBooks), ScreenTek has an interesting, if somewhat technical, article here.
I returned my 24″ iMac because the glare was too distracting in my office. I guess I’m not alone.
ME.
I like my matte screen imac, never did like glossy screens.
“But if color evaluation is important to you, and you want a Mac, then you will have to step up to a pro machine. Or live with the shine.”
…or plug a Cinema HD into it since you should be using 2 monitors anyway. But given the option, I’d still get a matte.
will not buy a glossy imac. hate reflections. love being first to post.
The iMac has a glass cover over the glossy screen, yes? Of what use will coating the cover do with after-market anti-glare applications?
Ack! What happened? I know I was first. I know it.
I saw the new iMacs at the Apple Store.
I vote for a matte option.
Funny, I’ve been doing production design for 17 years and have yet to own a matte monitor. So WTF is this “matte surface is better for evaluating color in images” BS?
if this helps apple make money then I am all for it
I think there is a lot of crap being talked about the glossy screen. I have had my new 24″ iMac for 2 weeks, and reflections are not an issue. Its only really reflective when turned off!
I found the display to be too bright at times, but a program called Shades fixed that.
I bought a new 24” iMac after it came out and my biggest concern was the screen. I’m a graphic designer so the glare was a huge issue for me until I actually saw it in person. Since I’ve had it at home for about 2 weeks now, I don’t even notice the glare. Instead the colors look amazingly saturated and compared to the Dell screen that I have at work (hooked up to a G5 tower) it shows detail and color accuracy that a cheap Dell could never provide. I’m a happy camper, but I’d imagine that Apple would offer an option for a matte screen sometime in the future.
I don’t care if Apple offers a matte option; if it doesn’t cost them more to have two options, go for it.
I love the glossy screen on my 24″ iMac; I upgraded from a matte notebook, and everything looks so much crisper and shinier now.
Reflections should be solved by having proper lighting and screen position in your room. I see how this is hard to guarantee with a notebook, but the iMac deserves a whole room setup of its own.
People have always got to find something to bitch about….
500 grit sandpaper works great
I do extensive Photoshop work, and am planning to buy a Mac Pro early next year; I’m considering either the 23″ cinema display or Eizo’s 24″ CE240W graphics monitor. The money is not really an issue for me, so I’ve been going back and forth on which monitor to buy. If Apple releases new monitors, and they are all glossy like the iMacs are, my decision will have been made for me – I’ll go with the Eizo.
ME! ME! ME!
I want matte!
“if this helps apple make money then I am all for it”
I think they are doing just fine in the money department.
Anyhow, consumer buying will decide if the iMac should have a matte screen. At that time, I am sure they will release one.
If you don’t like your options with the current iMac, get something else. When making an investment as large as a new computer, never simply “settle” – get what you want (or hold out until what you truly want is available).
This is not my post, but is this true?
It’s not the glossy cover thats the problem, it’s the……
low end LCD on the 20-inch model. Go check it out at your local Apple store. The viewing angle is so bad on this screen that it’s dark to light from the top to the bottom of the screen. The colors wash out if your not within six inches of the perfect angle. Changing the gamma only hides the problem. Some have said that Apple is using a cheap TN screen on this model instead of a ISP screen thay have used in the past. The 24-inch model is beautiful and has none of these problems. I was days away from buying one myself until I tried them out at the Apple atore. I personally dont mind the glossy screen, but until they start putting better LCD’s in the 20-inch models, I’m holding off.
Check the thread on Apple forums.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1091939&tstart=0
@ Mark
The Eizo’s are really nice and worth the money if you’ve got it.
Who wants a matte screen option for Apple’s new iMacs?
A Matte screen option FOR ALL MAC’s!!!
Ok this is the problem. Glossy screens produce reflections, which causes the eye to constantly focus between two (or more) images that leads to intensive eyestrain and headaches.
If you pick up a glossy magazine and get some glare on the page, you tilt or move ever so slightly to eliminate the glare and go on reading.
Now how the heck are we supposed to be able to do that with a heavy desktop computer, or a fragile laptop without it sliding off our laps and to the ground?
I used a glossy screen desktop, I was constantly shifting around in the seat to avoid the reflections because the company couldn’t/wouldn’t change the enviroment to make computing eaiser, safer and more productive.
It’s totally unreasonable to ask people or their employers to incure huge costs in changing the enviroment for what is essentially a design flaw.
Now it’s been proven that glare screens are not totally effective because the eye is still trying to focus between multiple images distances. Not to mention destroying the astetics of a nice computer like the iMac with a cheap glare screen.
How about glare screens for laptops? What a hassle!!
Come on Apple, glossy screens and glare screens went out in the 70 or 80’s. This is a dramatic STEP BACKWARDS in computer evolution.
Sure there are the young who think glossy is the new hotness and some professionals who glossy screens are preffered for color. But the majority of us who use the computer for hours on end in the course of our work, and have used glossy screens in the past, overwhelmingly prefer matte screens.
And the polls back up what I say.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061018-8022.html
http://macslash.org/pollBooth.pl?section=&qid=192&aid=-1
http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=527
(the large amount of MacPoll voters from MacRumors are the younger crowd and perhaps haven’t experienced glossy screen eyestrain, to them glossy looks better)
Hmmm….re: MDN “Note”…is MDN trying to tell those that aren’t happy with Apple’s glossy screens that there is a way to get around what Apple wants its customers to do with an iMac?
All things considered, wouldn’t it be best just to accept what it is that Apple wants its customers to do? Obviously, Apple doesn’t want it customers to be using iMacs for “professional” layout purposes, even if they are capable of it. Otherwise Apple would offer matte screens.
People should just stop whining and use “professional” hardware…just like all those whining about iMovie 08 should shut up and use “professional” software like FCE/FC.
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I was considering a new iMac… but I think I’ll hold out with my old one now and wait for Apple to come to its senses on this one.
Apple offered laptops with an option of either a matte screen or a glossy one. My guess is that they analyzed the sales figures and found that it didn’t make business sense to offer matte screens even as a build-to-order option.
Now of course all the people here are going to jump up and down and say they want matte screens, and so do all their friends, but not everyone in the world who owns a Mac posts to web sites. It’s entirely possible that we’re a loud but tiny minority, and that they get more business in offering glossy screens than they lose in not offering matte ones.
Why do you have to be a pro to be concerned about glare, headaches, fatigue and the health of your eyes?
I’m not a pro and I despise glossy screens.
“People have always got to find something to bitch about….”
Or, it could be that people are entitled to an opinion.
Those huge flat-screen high-end CRT’s didn’t have matte screens. The were glossy and glass. But they did have a clear anti-glare coating on it, probably similar to what’s on my eyeglasses. That’s probably what Apple uses on the glass. So it’s not on the LCD surface, it’s on the glass surface.
As in the past, in the future, glossy will be the “default.” Matte will be the option. It’s obvious which one most customers prefer.
By the way CVS stands for Computer Vision Syndrome.
Your welcome to research the vast information on this subject from numerous scientific sources, it just proves that GLOSSY = BAD FOR EYES.
Apple, give us users A CHOICE!!
Sales at Apple Stores is no evaluation of the general market. People new to computers may think the shiny screens are hot, but seasoned pros simply walk away.
I saw the glossy iMac screens and walked away. Did you record that lost sale? No.
PLEASE APPLE, A CHOICE!!
“But if color evaluation is important to you, and you want a Mac, then you will have to step up to a pro machine. Or live with the shine.”
Has David Morgenstern not heard of the Mac Mini? That blows his whole arguement, doesn’t it?
@ChrissyOne
They are nice, aren’t they. I’ll probably buy the new machine in January after Macworld SF. I’m hoping Apple announces Penryn Mac Pros then. I’ve been saving for this machine for a while, so I want to get the best system possible, even if it means paying twice as much for my monitor by getting the Eizo.
When I mention the monitor to friends, I just get a blank stare – nobody’s ever heard of Eizo but me it seems.
“…..It’s obvious which one most customers prefer.”
Yes, it is.
http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=527
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061018-8022.html
Ever since the aluminum iMacs were introduced and various forums erupted with the “glossy sucks!” cries of woe, I’ve noticed an interesting difference between (most of) those who complained and those who praised the new display.
Over at MacInTouch, there have been a lot of complaints split between people who have never even seen the new machines and those who looked at the new iMacs in stores (often when the displays were dark!), and saw their reflections. In other words, those who visited a store just looked<i> at the new iMacs instead of spending any time <i>working<i> with them.
Then they rushed home to submit comments about “glossy is bad, bad bad.”
In contrast, there also are a number of posts from people who <i>actually bought a new iMac, took it home and <i>worked<i> on it, that say the screens are just fine. In fact, some specifically say text is sharper on the glossy display and they don’t notice distracting reflections in the home environment.
As someone who switched from Windows 6 months ago, is this chorus of complaints about every Apple announcement typical of longtime Mac users? It seems like whenever Apple releases a product, the complainers start up with the familiar <i>it’s not upgradeable-fast-gamer graphics-pretty enough.<i>
Geez, take a look around the normal Best Buy store folks and see the dull reality.
The new iMacs appear to be incredible machines. Wish I could buy one myself.
This was a big issue for me when buying my flat panel HDTV and my wife’s MacBook Pro this past year. The last thing I wanted on my HDTV picture was reflections from the window, lights in the other room, etc. imposing themselves on the screen. I was amazed at how many HDTVs had highly reflective glossy screens. I eventually bought a Sharp Aquos because it had a great picture and a matte screen.
My wife bought the matte MacBook Pro precisely because, in the Apple store, the reflections off of the glossy Pro screen were annoying and distracting. With a laptop, you often can’t pick the perfect location for screen viewing, so we opted for the matte screen. I thought the glossy screens looked just as good as the matte, but I hate reflections and don’t see why, in this day and age, we should have to put up with them.
I haven’t seen a new iMac yet, so maybe the glossy screen is not a big issue. However, I believe the new iMac will have some touch-screen capabilities once Leopard is released, and thus the true reason for the glass screen (note that it’s not glossy plastic).
It is obviously a personal decision based on conditions on where the computer must reside. My son had a choice with his MacBook Pro and chose the glossy. He loves it and has no regrets. I can only say that unless one has actually viewed the new iMacs, you have no place complaining. If you have viewed them and the glossy screen has prevented you from buying then you should definitely write to Apple and let them know that they’ve lost a sale. There is definitely more reflections on the glossy screen, but it offset by the sharpness and saturation of the picture.
It happens all the time. When psychology comes up against physical reality, psychology wins.
I wonder how many of those who complain about the current iMac screen use antiglare coated eyeglasses, and how many use uncoated. I bet the uncoated are in the majority.
(Note to other Europeans: Americans tend to be stuck with fifty-year old glass technology.)
Tommy Boy has a point. CRTs were virtually all “glossy” (i.e. a glass screen surface) for years and years. I have a 21″ Apple Studio Display (a monitor designed for professional color work – it even has a color calibration button) and the screen is most definitely “glossy.” I also have a MacBook and the screen on that seems just fine to me. If anything, the visibility is affected much more by the LCD viewing angle (if you have the lid open too far, the image starts to wash out, etc) than the glossy surface.
…current iMacs employ anti-reflection technology in their glossy screens.
MDN IT’S NOT WORKING WELL
There are dozens of images online showing the glare on these new glossy iMac’s and MacBooks. It’s looks good at first, until you’ve used them for some time and then you find out the truth.
Glossy = CVS
Count me in as wanting matte. I just won’t buy a glossy, no way!
“When psychology comes up against physical reality, psychology wins.”
Cool. I will have to consider that the next time I am trying to cross the street and pondering whether I should step out into traffic or wait for the light.
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The new iMac is actually one of the most accurate LCD’s for color on the market. Apple used an optical grade clear glass that offers color correctness that rivals CRT monitors in color accuracy. With my color sync tools and a hood it is 99.87% accurate when set to optimal values compared to a matte LCD which is only 97.12% accurate with the same optimal corrections, The NEC OptiClear LCD is 99.21% accurate (my previous monitor for color correction). For color eye ballers glossy screens mislead the eye to think that reds and blues are to saturated and they miss adjust the LCDs white point and brightness to compensate. When these eye balled color corrections go to print the colors come out faded or muddy. With matte LCD eye ballers were more accurate because their monitors with miss adjusted on the over saturated side.
Yep Mental is it. TROLL ALERT!!!
“I returned my 24″ iMac because the glare was too distracting in my office. I guess I’m not alone.”
And the wax job on his new Jag was too bright so he took it back too.
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And the water reflected too much so he sold his, just purchased, beach house.
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Yep, spend $2000 with out a second thought then just return it cause your too cheap to buy an anti-reflective screen. LOL I think that is so funny.
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en
Like others, my preference is that Apple give the consumers a choice between the glossy and matte screens. I do understand that doing so probably means a non-glass screen for the matte iMacs.
My view (pun intended) of the new iMacs is that the screen is absolutely horrendous. It’s like looking at mirror – this is true at the Apple store where their products are put in the best light possible (pun intended again – I’m on roll
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> ). The new iMac’s screens are much worse than the MacBook’s.
As MDN stated, Reportedly, current iMacs employ anti-reflection technology in their glossy screens.
All the more reason to offer us a choice – their anti-reflection technology does NOT work with the glass screens.
Peace.
All hail the matte finish!!!
I’m ready to purchase a new iMac – just not one with a glossy, reflective screen. So I’ll wait until Macworld Jan ’08 for, hopefully, a new iMac with a matte screen – and if we’re lucky – a better graphics card – look at barefeats.com for a review.
The glossy screen looks GREAT – as long as you use it in a room with no windows or lights. In perfect conditions, it looks perfect, in anything less than perfect conditions, you are looking at a reflection of a window, of anything bright – including the user, chairs, clothes or anything else that isn’t black.
The Mac mini is underpowered and when you ad everything in to get it on par with an iMac, it is more expensive.
A Mac Pro would be great, after I win the lottery that is.
If anyone has had glasses without the anti-glare coating and has to put up with reflections of their own faces – or for those of you who remember the glass CRTs that reflected anything in front of them – although the eMac seems to be an exception – then you will appreciate the need to have an option for a matte screen.
Been using ours for weeks, now, and neither my wife nor I have any problems with “reflections”. If we want to see what’s behind us – like the large windows to the sun deck – we need to use Photo Booth. The sun lamp is no problem. The sky light is no problem. There ought to be glare, if glare were to be a problem. There is none.
CVS is old school, a possible problem for users of cheap CRTs. The iMac uses an LCD – entirely different technology, believe me. I survived decades of CRT use without this problem, am not worried about it. Perhaps I should re-phrase … I’ve worked in IT from the TTY days (60s), through the CRT days, into the LCD days without developing a problem identified as “CVS”. How many years do you have to work how many hours a week in order to get this “syndrome”?
Dave
I agree with Tommy Boy. Think about it… if matte was so good for clarity and professional color work why are Nikon and Leitz lenses not matte, huh? They coat every piece of glass in the stack and they are glossy down to the 10 millionths cm. Matte screen finish is cheap compensation for low pixel density… and with the industry becoming more dense… coated glossy is the future… i personally suffer eye strain with matte screens…
@ NeonRed
You’re kidding, right?
I was so looking forward to a new iMac but I would rather wait and see if the non-shinny (matte) becomes available. Glossy only will have to be fixed and quickly. Apple usually does better with its pre-market testing.
A matte screen option for all Macs.
Let Apple’s customer’s decide, not take whatever SJ decides is in their best interest.
Is it time for another 1984 commercial where someone shatters SJ’s image on a glossy screen? While holding an iPhone?
I am a Graphic Designer who is staring at the gloss 12+ hours a day and when I had glasses, it maybe had a glare, but then I got Lasik and Glossy Rocks. No Issues Here.
I think all the complaints about the glossy are from the geeks who have 1983 glasses that are 1/2 inch thick and can’t see crap anyways!
MW: “Then” as in “Then I got Lasik!”
Funny… 100% of the creative pros I know (design, pre-press, photography, video, film, web) have embraced the glossy screen. Perhaps not at first, but in the end, when all had been said and done, not one of them would be caught dead with a matte display screen.
Even Steve has openly said the public clearly preferred glossy over matte. You tell me where ZDnet came out with this one. I certainly can’t see how they would come up with this.
Weird…
I love the 24″ iMac. I use it professionally and it makes my 23″ Cinema display look pale (both displays are calibrated). I do graphics for a living and my suite is setup so I don’t have ANY glare issues.
Most of these complaints are from people who are theorizing, not actually using it in a controlled situation. This is one of the best Macs Apple has ever built.
@Islandgirl
Welcome to the Mac world. Yes, a large number of people bitch and complain every-time Apple releases a product (no matter how wonderful it is).
Many Mac users want everything their way and feel there should be no compromises. Too bad business/life doesn’t work that way.
I just saw the new iMac for the first time at the Apple store on Saturday. LOVE it. LOVE the new keyboard (still hate the Mighty Mouse). But… needs a Matte screen. Badly.
I just updated a department with 15 mac mini’s instead of iMacs, buying Samsung 19″ monitors. The reason? The new iMacs were not available in a matte finish. A secondary reason is that wide screen doesn’t work as well as a conventional aspect ratio for business work.
Now I’m not tied to apple anymore for screens, and if they stop making the mini I can migrate to pc’s. Plus I saved a few hundred bucks per unit.
It’s like apple doesnt want business customers who arent in graphics.
Think about the market. Home users mostly use their computers in the evening, work users mostly use their computer in the daytime with more ambient light. Pro Mac users tend to work in jobs where color is important and glossy screens are better. So Apple is catering to the majority in both core markets with glossy screens, and glossy screens can have a matte film over them but the reverse is not true.
My glossy screen, a CRT, is a problem in mid afternoon where it is located, near a window and the sunlight reflects on me and reflects in the screen, it’s less of a problem if I wear a dark shirt. As I look out of the window fairly often I exercise my eye muscles correctly which perhaps compensates for other eye problems using a screen. Notice how avid book readers and computer users tend to have to wear glasses earlier on in life? – ever see a librarian without glasses or contacts, maybe but they are few and far between. It’s because the eyes’ leness are operated by muscles and the same as any other muscles they need exercise. Keeping the muscles static by viewing at a fixed point for too long is perhaps more of a problem.
The eye is not designed to constantly view either fixed focus or glossy surfaces, our bodies weren’t designed to look at computers, there will be some trade-off.
@ Mark
Not really. Light and optics are what they are. I like AK Mac am a production designer and i am sitting in front of six monitors now.
All glossy, but coated…. i can and have to, control the ambient light for color and proofing with respect to my monitors. A mixed array LCD and CRT…. In my use glossy is important and preferred.
I can appreciate that a notebook used in conditions totally outside of the users control. matte has its utility. That does not change the clarity and sharpness and crisp edge issues that make extended screen viewing, professionally possible. Which brings me to the sort of tongue-in-cheek lens comparison– Lenses demand perfect surfaces, so as to not introduce distortions.. screens do too!
@ Diggs
Yes you are correct, the TFT on the 20” iMac has been downgraded. White 20” iMac used state of the art IPS (In Plane Switching) TFT panel, while the aluminium 20” uses low end TN (Twisted Nematic) TFT panel. Maybe Apple needed to put a glossy surface to avoid old-to-new comparison of 20” iMacs. But have to admit that this was a great way to get a new lower price point for the 20”!
@ Diggs
Yes you are correct, the TFT on the 20” iMac has been downgraded. White 20” iMac used state of the art IPS (In Plane Switching) TFT panel, while the aluminium 20” uses low end TN (Twisted Nematic) TFT panel. Maybe Apple needed to put a glossy surface to avoid old-to-new comparison of 20” iMacs. But have to admit that this was a great way to get a new lower price point for the 20”!
“There is some stuff in our industry we wouldn’t be proud to ship. “
Somebody’s kidding somebody. Apple chose the silver and black color scheme because it would “appeal to pros” [from a related article in MacWorld) but is “trying to discourage iMac sales to pros”[MDN]???
The Apple Store in Corte Madera, CA tells me that they can’t keep the MacBook Pro with matte screen in stock. Everybody wants matte and all they have to sell is shiny. It’s costing them sales.
Color accuracy has nothing to do with my objection to the iMac’s glossy screen. In a darkened room, the colors are beautiful. In normal room light, however, the reflections are more than annoying—they’re overwhelming. Another Apple customer told me that the glossy screen costs Apple 30-40% less than the matte screen of the previous model. I don’t know if this was an accurate statement, but it sounds about right considering what a dubious choice glossy screens are from the standpoint of usability.
Some have remarked about the more limited viewing angle and gamma shifts of the new 20″ screen. Did they perchance change from the S-IPS LCD panels they used on some of their displays? For me, this alone might suggest I wait until they release LED panels like that on the MBP 15″.
As to the glare issue, it’s something I contend with on my new Plasma screen. I deal with it by shifting viewing position, shutting off lamps, etc. and just focusing on the program. With a computer display, that may not be so easy.
Aye for the matte screen.
That is all.
Did not think that I would like the glossy at all when I got my new iMac. I had to have an intel chip need to run parallels so I got the new 24 inch to replace my 20 inch iMac matt screen. Tell you what, I love the screen it looks great! The colors are just great and so much richer than my G5 iMac. Besides all the CRTs had glossy screens for years and very few manufactures offered mat screens on CRTs or it was some kind of add-on screen.
I want an iMac…but i definitely won’t buy one with a glossy screen. I prefer to see what i’m working with on the computer rather than stare at a reflection of myself all day.
“…..Besides all the CRTs had glossy screens for years and very few manufactures offered mat screens on CRTs or it was some kind of add-on screen.”
———————–
Yes, that’s because LCD monitor technology wasn’t around yet.
As soon as it was, it became a god send for people who actually used their machines for hours at a time. Glossy screens have been around before, I hated them then and still hate them now.
But as has been mentioned before, Apple slapped a glossy display on the new iMac to try and help hide the fact that they are no longer using the quality LCD panels that they used to.
Glossy can make anything look good to an average Joe. The fact is that with long-term use, glossy displays are bad for your eyes and they are bad for your brain. It’s proven
“Oh WOW honey, look at the colors…. Ooh Aah!”
Yeah I’m bleeding edge on everything Mac but this time I’m waiting for matte. I wasn’t blown away by the new look (which to me somehow already seems dated), and it wasn’t thin enough to overcome the annoying gloss. And gloss by definition means reflective – you can’t have shiny without reflective. So saying this glossy screen has an anti-reflective coat seems retarded to me – am I alone here? If you have to move your head around until you don’t see the reflection of the screen… isn’t that because of the glossy reflection? And if you have a black screen it’s like looking at a mirror. How is that anti-reflective?
My glossy Macbook gets so dirty and spotty all the time it’s disgusting – I’m constantly cleaning it. Hope Apple learns from this obvious misfire.
I’ve been using my new 20″ for almost two weeks and have no problem with reflection. The screen is beautiful and much better than my 17″ Cinema display. At first I was skeptical about glossy but after using it at home I really like it.
I love all the fanbois who have glanced for a few minutes at the iMac in the store, pronounce the glossy screen “unacceptable”, and then proceed to lecture all the people who HAVE ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE COMPUTER, USED IT FOR WEEKS AND HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT WHATSOEVER! Along with the thousands upon thousands of folks who love their glossy-screened Macbooks…
Ridiculous.
Get a clue. YOUR REQUIREMENTS ARE YOUR REQUIREMENTS ONLY. Do not try to impose them on everyone else. We do not all demand the fastest video card, gigabit ethernet, Firewire 800… we do not all want to pay 2 grand for our computers!
If a given set of specs doesn’t suit you, cool. You don’t therefore have to trumpet it to everyone who will listen- and try to bend everyone’s needs to your own.
You don’t like glossy? Well, people vote with their wallets- you are obviously in a small minority.
Get over yourselves.
I’m hoping Apple will ultimately offer a choice of screen options witht the new iMac. I don’t need a Mac Pro, but the glossy screen is kind of a dealbreaker for me. At least offer it with an anti-glare glass.
And, yes, I have gone and looked first-hand at the iMacs in the stores.
Glossy screens (CRTs) have been around forever and are a must for designers and videographers that need to see true colour characteristics.
But there should be a choice not to have it.
Glossy looks great.
But I really prefer matte.
I “color correct” my files by the numbers, not the appearance on the monitor. I don’t care how accurate the calibration, if you rely on the look of the colors on the screen, your final printed piece will look bad.
I just find that when I show a client a proof on-screen, I get a better response from the matte display.
MW “Fear” – We fear change.
“Apple is trying to discourage iMac sales by pros…..So the only way to discourage a designer is to put a shiny screen on it.”
That’s the Apple attitude I don’t like.
A lot of agencies I know of, including ours, are using a mix of iMacs and Mac Pros, but in talking with other designers today’s iMac is the better balance of price/performance. While the Pro is often the speed champ over the iMac (where’s my mini tower Apple?), frankly we don’t need all the extra expansion we’re paying for out of the box. The ‘one size fits all’ tower line is actually better geared for video pros.
With gloss screens, many users claim they don’t have issues – thats nice. However for designers matte displays in a controlled environment just do a better, more consistent job in our line of work. They help diffuse many colour and lighting issues that we were seeing on a gloss screen (the macbook we tested was okay, but not good enough). That’s why Apple offered the matte option with the Macbook Pro. So, when we saw the new iMacs were in gloss only, we instead found and purchased 4 slightly used 24″ ones with matte displays.
So thanks for the discouragement Apple. You missed out on a sale, we got what we needed and saved some money in the process.
Matte is my vote too. 17in PB user w00t for PPC!
“Who wants a matte screen option for Apple’s new iMacs?”
iDon’t.
I do, no because of glare but I just do not like the glossy. I have it on my macbook and it is ok but really not that nice kind of annoying actually.
Matte Heads – guess what if you are in the matte LCD panel camp well you are dated. All LCD panels will be moving to glossy finishes over the next few years. Because they are better in image and color reproduction and guess what, that’s right kids, LED back-lighting is much more even on glossy LCD panels. The LCD panel industry is trying to move the LCD panel to be more Plasma panel and CRT like, consumers demand a better look then the unfinished plastic that is and LCD panel. Consumers’ complained and the LCD panel makers have been listening, The complaint the LCD doesn’t look like the CRT in their beloved TVs. For the LCD industry the matte screen has always been considered a limitation. If you go back and look at the LCD Panel reviews as the LCD started replacing the CRT you’ll see complaints that the matte screens look flat and ugly compared to the CRT’s bright, warm and glossy display. Don’t get me wrong here matte finished LCDs have there place in proof reading, programing and non-consumer related products. But, to compete with the almighty TV and it’s largely CRT base, the LCD Panel will not be matte for long. In these early generations of glossy LCD Panels I think Apple made the right move, put the panel under optical glass to 1) protect it. 2) reduce the glossy panels glare as optical glass reduces the glare 3) optical glass is also polarized which also reduces the glass.
The glass plate that is the font surface of the new iMac would cost over $100.00 U.S. to have made to the same spec. used in the iMac, while Apple’s cost far less, just in bulk cost savings and Chinese supplier, it does not reduce the quality of the optical glass.
A word to the wise don’t complain at the train as it runs you over while your standing on the tracks, because by the time the engineer saw you, you were already dead. Glossy vs. Matte same thing in a few years buying a matte LCD panel be like buying a CRT is today. Limited selection, very low stock counts and what is available is poor quality or just left over stock.
“So thanks for the discouragement Apple. You missed out on a sale, we got what we needed and saved some money in the process.”
Yup, they lost your sale of 4 iMacs, but in the meantime sold 20 or 50 or 100 to other people whose DVDs and home movies look absolutely fantastic on those glossy screens… oh, but you went ahead and bought 4 “slightly used” iMacs anyway.
Fess up: you didn’t save much money, did ya? Since the new iMacs start out 300 bucks cheaper than the older ones, and I know you didn’t get THAT big a discount on the “used” ones… since Macs hold their resale value so well… I’ll bet you didn’t pay a hell of a lot less than buying new.
I can’t tell you how many Mac Pro’s I haven’t bought- sorry, they just don’t meet my needs.
Nice going, Apple, you morons!
Face it, folks, if you want infinite configurability, buy a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro. Or, go to Dell.com- ’cause that’s what you’re really looking for.
The rest of us Macheads…. not so much.
This type of MDN article (along with the “polls” someone mentions above) have a self-selected audience. The .005 % of the audience who care will go click, “I want matte screen!” The other 99.995% will glance at the article heading, or the “poll”, roll their eyes, say, “Jeez, who gives a crap?”- and click on by without responding.
There is nothing whatsoever random about these internet “polls” – anyone who goes out of the way to respond has an agenda. Only those who VOLUNTEER their opinion get heard. No one is out there eliciting an opinion from each and every one who passes thru MDN- like an election-day exit poll, for example.
ergo, a meaningless yardstick, if you will.
To answer the question in the headline: I do.
“George Bush doesn’t care about matte people…”
Since when did people start buying Macintosh computers to play DVD’s on?
Since when is a video timeline to “confusing” for most users?
What is Apple becoming a kindergarten computer maker?
Sheesh. Even average Mac users used to be fairly sophisticated and educated people.
Are these steps that Apple is taking as of late really required to woo over the Windows world?
Furthermore, is this what we all really want Apple to become?
Do modern day Macs really need to appeal to the lowest common denominator of folks who need to be wowed by how good a computer looks playing a movie?
Sadly, it’s happening.
Come on Apple, some of us long time users still choose Macs to be creative and productive. iMovie 08 has killed the creativity options out of a once great app, and mandatory glossy screens on the ONLY mid-priced desktop has left a lot of us without a viable option.
WTF?
All screens were gloss until IBM discovered the means to make LCDs cheaply. LCDs were damned expensive, when I bought my PB3400 it was reported that the screen was 50% of the cost.
Lowest common denominator = BS, everyone likes bright colors. Sure the new home users will love them, as do most of the color professionals, so who is doing all of the complaining?
Re?ards – no just a few people who can’t remember the antiglare screen covers that were available everywhere before the days of cheap LCDs?
There is already a choice with glossy screens, there is no choice with matte screens.
I love my Glossy 17″ Hi-Res Macbook Pro 1920×1200 glossy goodness!! Pretty much 0 glare unless the screen is dark.
Matte. Me here. Yes’um. iDo. PLEASE!
“..I love my Glossy 17″ Hi-Res Macbook Pro 1920×1200 glossy goodness!”
*******
Good for you Jonahan.. Happy you like it, as you may have trouble selling it for a decent price. The choice ratio for MBP’s is overwhelmingly matte.
In fact, when I was shopping for my sister’s MBP last month, matte’s were sold out everywhere in SoCal with a 7-10 day backorder, while everyone had glossy’s in stock. The Apple store sales guy at Costa Mesa said that more than 9/10 MBP buyers get the matte screen.
I know it’s nothing scientific, but he also said that matte is the number one reason people will buy a MBP over a MB, even if the MB meets their needs.
So in a sense, I do believe Apple knows what they are doing in creating an up-sell path. People who want matte DEFINITELY want matte!
At least with the MBP you’ve got a choice.
Once again MDN keeps defending Apple for their mistake. You guys must’ve got some pocket money change to keep giving good review right?
I tried a 24″ iMac in the UTC Apple store in San Diego last Friday. I have to confess, I loved it. I did not notice a single reflection at all. I use a 23″ Cinema Display at home, and I didn’t even notice its glossy screen.
I would have no problem using this machine at home.
No way in hell am I spending any money on that piece of crap. First Mac I would not consider buying. Also, I won’t wate any money for iMovie 08.
Now we see the vunerability…
…of sticking with a company that has a hardware and a software platform monopoly.
We can’t move Mac OS X and our investment in apps to another hardware platform that offers what we need, in this case matte screens for our health.
Sure we can select underpowered Mini’s or over powered Mac Pros and micky mouse a Dell monitor on them.
THANKS A FRIGGING LOT APPLE!!!
We’ve already chosen our work environment – a comfortable room with ample natural light – so unfortunately the glossy screen may not work for us. I was waiting for the new models to buy an iMac but am changing gears and now looking for last year’s model. Also, if it’s true that Apple has gone to a cheaper 20″ monitor with lower vertical viewing angle this could indeed pose a problem for designers.
Me! I’d prefer a matte option.
Am using a new 20″ iMac (2.4Ghz) and like it for the most part. The glossy display during the daytime is bothersome with the windows/blinds behind me reflecting too much, but am trying to get used to it. In the evening with lighting bouncing from the ceiling it’s no problem, reflections unnoticeable.
Am giving myself until the next round of Mac Pros are announced then I’ll decide if it’s bugging me enough to make me switch!
The new iMacs are fine with me. Leave them alone.
I looked at the new (and old) iMacs at both CompUSA and Apple store recently. The new iMac GLOSSY is just way to shiny and distracting for me. I consider this Glossy design decision to be one of the stupidest things Apple has done in a long time. Furniture and some artwork looks great glossy. But a screen that has tiny text print and picture details that I will be looking at for hours – NO NO NO.
I would have considered upgrading from my current iMac G5, but the screen on my G5 is MUCH easier on the eyes.
As well, the new iMac Glossy has a much brighter screen, and can not be turned down very much in control panel.
On my own G5, I have screen usually about 40%, so the new iMac inability to attenuate that fails on that count too. What happened to the user friendly computer for rest of us?
(yes, you can get the program Shades, which intentionally, programmatically overlays a gray ‘filter’ over the whole screen desktop to dim it. A good, clever temporary solution. But it seems nuts to have the screen cranking out huge energy that must then be filtered through a gray virtual lens.)
Re. earlier poster: No this is not just an issue of 20″ vs 24″. Though your point is on target re quality – it seems to be true that Apple used a cheaper TN screen on the 20″, so it is less color accurate and less visible off axis (has a definite yellow-green color when viewed from right side).
I have posted to Apple Feedback that I would like an iMac OPTION of anti-glare, anti-reflective (or ‘matte’ style) screen. Just like it is an option for the MacBook Pro. In fact, in the Apple store you can see the MacBook Pro Glossy vs anti-reflective right side by side.
Please if you value your choices, ask Apple to offer an anti-reflective option. (this in no way will prevent those who love the glossy relections from getting their full dose of gloss… it just gives an option for the others of us who need less glare for the sake of our eyes and vision.) BEST.
Want Apple to continue making matte screens? Speak up here!!
http://www.apple.com/getamac/feedback/
I prefer the glossy screens. Much better colors. People who complain: try actually using a new iMac for a while, then decide. I bet most, if not all, would then prefer the new glossy displays.
(magic word: glass)
Matte forever!
No pun intended here, but yes, my name is Matt and yes, I want a matte iMac.
I’ve noticed some posters who think people who prefer matte screens haven’t given glossy displays a chance.
Sure there are some that haven’t used glossy displays and started computing with the LCD matte screens and think the glossy is hot and not a bother.
What a lot of the majority of experienced computer users know, is that the effects of a glossy screen, not in a totally blackout enviroment, causes a gradual increase in eyestrain and headaches.
At first it’s not noticeable, but over the course of time as the sympthoms of CVS develop, people with glossy displays tend to not enjoy their computing time, cutting it short because of the irritation.
To the casual user, short time on the computer is just fine. But if you have to sit in front of a glossy irritating display, not in a totally blackened room, as part of your job or web management, etc. It’s a big annoyance.
I’ve used glossy CRT’s in the course of graphic design work for many years. We had to employ hoods to block the glare and sit hunched even closer to the screen causing even further damage to our eyes. We even had to wear special CRT glasses.
Is this where we are headed again?
Actually I find matte hard on the eyes. Have had matte for five years and after seeing the Glossy at least you can see the colors.
Actually I find matte hard on the eyes. Have had matte for five years and after seeing the Glossy at least you can see the colors.
More the reason Apple should give users a choice of either.
I do!
Want Apple to continue making matte screens? Speak up here!!
http://www.apple.com/getamac/feedback/
I am typing this on a new iMac 20″
Don’t say you don’t like it until you have used it.
It is the best display I have ever used.
It would be nice to have a choice!
‘..It is the best display I have ever used.”
Actually, it sucks compared to the previous generation iMac 20″ display. Apple went cheap. Off-angle viewing is horrendous on the new 20″.
I NEED MATTE! am a scientific illustrator and the new iMac is completely useless to me as a professional artist. It is a beautiful computer and it has everything I want, however without true color evaluation, it’s junk. I REFUSE to purchase it!
Don’t say you don’t like it until you have used it.
Have used glossy for many years, gave the glossy MacBook and iMac a try just in case. The eyestrain and headaches of my glossy CRT days returned.
It is the best display I have ever used.
Which is relative to what you’ve used before. Which is obviously bad.
However, over the long term, glossy displays will cause eyesight problems. It might not be noticeable now, but the effects start to build up.
When you start rubbing your eyes after long sessions on the computer, you’ll know what we know.
Glossy screens cause Computer Vision Syndrome.
Good luck.
Another problem with the new glossy iMac’s.
Apparantly users can’t access the machine to put more RAM in unless the glass is removed.
Since the glass is fragile and held on by magnets, a specialized tool is needed to remove the glass and void your warranty.
Nice, now we have to pay Apple to upgrade the RAM in our machines too.
Lets all the Apple nerds in snooping on our hard drives.
I want matte.
I will not buy a glossy screen.
I have tried gloss; I hate it.
If you like gloss for its snappy colors, great. But I like matte.
Apple, listen to 50% of your customers!!!!!