“Last week the prevailing viewpoint in the Mac community was similar to the sense of betrayal voiced by David Pogue in his New York Times piece about iMovie 08,” Phil Shapiro blogs for PC World.
“But in the rising chorus of anger you could also hear the viewpoint that iMovie 08 is perhaps a small jewel after all. Hal Cauthen, the co-founder of the iMovie Special Interest Group in Washington Apple Pi, a large user group in the Washington DC-area, differed from Pogue in his assessment,” Shapiro writes.
“Is there a lesson to be learned here? Yes. It’s important to reserve judgment and not be too quick out of the gate with your reactions. Apple sometimes makes big mistakes, but they seldom make colossal mistakes,” Shapiro writes.
Full article, with links to Hal Cauthen’s iMovie ’08 viewpoints in three blog postings, here.
MDN can’t seem to concede…
The people have spoken. Let’s move on!
iMovie ’08 is great, but not a replacement for iMovie HD (at least for a lot of people). iMovie HD is great, but not a replacement for iMovie ’08. So it looks like I’ll be using both. For me, the killer feature of iMovie ’08 is the library of events. Having such easy access to all my movies has helped me enjoy them again (and again).
I’ve also noticed that iMovie ’08 is very buggy. Hopefully it won’t take too long to straighten these out.
Well I was looking a couple of totally unscientific polls on iMove and it seems it really is a vocal minority that hate iMovie ’08.
Kind of reminds me of the Classic OS 9 supporters back in the day when the change to OS X came about. Give it time and you will find that you adjust and start to like the features of the new version.
I for one DO like iMoive ’08 better than ’06. The workflow works for me. With software I take each release as a new release and judge it on the merits of just that title alone not comparing it to the previous release.
What? No MDN take?
imovie is really good
but if you are in he middle of your imovie 6 master peace
or imovie 6 is the only editor you have ever liked imovie 8 can be hard to swallow
I for one think imovie is a great product, imovie 6 was getting out of hand, slow and hard to use.
Apple fixed it GREAT JOB!!
I typically use FCE because I like the control it offers.
There is a huge difference between iMovie and FCE but for many users, iMovie ’08 is more than adequate and it’s quite fun to use to boot.
I for one, like iMovie ’08 quite a bit and I will use it for all my more simple projects. I love not needing to render and would like to see that ‘feature’ spread across the lineup of Apple’s movie software.
I just used iMovie ’08 for the first time this weekend. It’s so easy to compose a project, skimming is a joy, and there are all sorts of little details that work great (e.g., setting the start and end points for the Ken Burns effect). After reading the first reviews, I thought the new iMovie would be a disaster. But it’s so simple and easy that it’s a lit of fun to use. A little leaner on features than ’06, but that will change as the new program is developed over time.
In other news, Apple loves iMovie 08 so much they are replacing Final Cut Express and Pro with a completely new way of working based upon iMovie 08.
I’m a new Mac user a year old now, coming from the Windows and PC world, the Apple apologists are just as pathetic and stupid as the Microsoft ones it’s embarasing to see them rear their ugly head.
No amount of MDN/Apple partnership on this will change the facts.
iMovie 08 is a HUGE, did I emphasize HUGE? – disappointment to iMovie users across the world. We wanted a robust upgrade, not a dummed down toy.
All the outcry is not about the immediate loss of iMovie HD, but the sooner-or-later fate it faces as ARROGANT APPLE phases it out, makes it unusable via OS updates, Quicktime updates, Intel updates, etc., etc.
No question: APPE”S BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER! EVER!
Shame on MDN for being such a mindless booster of everything Jobs and everything Apple – why not some objective reporting, after all, he’s not perfect and neither his his company.
Apple faithful sustain it all and they have slapped us silly with this even siller blunder.
I think that in time people will learn the true value of the new iMovie. The popularity of sites like Youtube has shown that video doesn’t have to be high quality to be popular. As these kind of videos become more widespread they’ll also become more and more disposable. People will be shooting video pretty much wherever they are and will want to share but often it won’t have any long term value to them – and if it does they can spend some real time on it – which is why I think it’s important that iMovie ’06 is still around.
What all you iMovie ’08 haters don’t seem to understand is the user interface far exceeds the previous iMovie in terms of ease of use and comprehension. Although it lacks the effects and themes, the important thing to remember is the revolutionary style of creating movie projects which Apple implemented in iMovie ’08. There’s nothing with wrong with making something less complicated if you can create the same quality output or better compared to the previous version. In this case iMovie ’08 can’t because of the lack of themes and effects but in the areas which ’08 does have the same features the latest version is clear winner. Apple is most likely intending to add themes and effects back when Leopard is released since it would most likely utilize Core Animation, a technology found only in Leopard. If this is the case iMovie ’08 will be able to quash anything iMovie ’06 could dream of making all sides of users happy.
You said, “No question: APPE”S BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER! EVER!
Shame on MDN for being such a mindless booster of everything Jobs and everything Apple – why not some objective reporting, after all, he’s not perfect and neither his his company.
Apple faithful sustain it all and they have slapped us silly with this even siller blunder.”
While I will not call you an MS troll, you sound very much like one. While I do not like that Apple is killing Appleworks and other products v(I wish they would let some third party keep selling it) my comments on that, iMove08, and other Apple issues as well as others here, sound different than yours.
True Apple fans may not agree with Apple when they decide to do something, and we do not mind voicing our opinions, we usually have a tone of consideration in our written voice.
But the MS trolls usually sound different!! Its like they are always saying the same thing with different words.
— “Apple did something bad. BAD APPLE. Kill Apple!!!!! Apple will turn on (you) er, all of us and doom us!!!”
How many postings have we seen here for any Apple product, where we have seen trolls??? claiming doom and gloom everytime Apple did something unexpected (or expected for that matter.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> ) They almost sound as obnocious as Zune Tang, almost. But they use words that are more — somehow — understnading. But not by much.
So, will I keep iMove 6, of course. And I will enjoy how it does things. But will I use iMove08?? Hmmmm, magic 8-ball says, “chances are good”. LOL
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
You said, “No question: APPE”S BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER! EVER!
Shame on MDN for being such a mindless booster of everything Jobs and everything Apple – why not some objective reporting, after all, he’s not perfect and neither his his company.
Apple faithful sustain it all and they have slapped us silly with this even siller blunder.”
While I will not call you an MS troll, you sound very much like one. While I do not like that Apple is killing Appleworks and other products v(I wish they would let some third party keep selling it) my comments on that, iMove08, and other Apple issues as well as others here, sound different than yours.
True Apple fans may not agree with Apple when they decide to do something, and we do not mind voicing our opinions, we usually have a tone of consideration in our written voice.
But the MS trolls usually sound different!! Its like they are always saying the same thing with different words.
— “Apple did something bad. BAD APPLE. Kill Apple!!!!! Apple will turn on (you) er, all of us and doom us!!!”
How many postings have we seen here for any Apple product, where we have seen trolls??? claiming doom and gloom everytime Apple did something unexpected (or expected for that matter.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> ) They almost sound as obnocious as Zune Tang, almost. But they use words that are more — somehow — understnading. But not by much.
So, will I keep iMove 6, of course. And I will enjoy how it does things. But will I use iMove08?? Hmmmm, magic 8-ball says, “chances are good”. LOL
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
You said, “No question: APPE”S BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER! EVER!
Shame on MDN for being such a mindless booster of everything Jobs and everything Apple – why not some objective reporting, after all, he’s not perfect and neither his his company.
Apple faithful sustain it all and they have slapped us silly with this even siller blunder.”
While I will not call you an MS troll, you sound very much like one. While I do not like that Apple is killing Appleworks and other products v(I wish they would let some third party keep selling it) my comments on that, iMove08, and other Apple issues as well as others here, sound different than yours.
True Apple fans may not agree with Apple when they decide to do something, and we do not mind voicing our opinions, we usually have a tone of consideration in our written voice.
But the MS trolls usually sound different!! Its like they are always saying the same thing with different words.
— “Apple did something bad. BAD APPLE. Kill Apple!!!!! Apple will turn on (you) er, all of us and doom us!!!”
How many postings have we seen here for any Apple product, where we have seen trolls??? claiming doom and gloom everytime Apple did something unexpected (or expected for that matter.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> ) They almost sound as obnocious as Zune Tang, almost. But they use words that are more — somehow — understnading. But not by much.
So, will I keep iMove 6, of course. And I will enjoy how it does things. But will I use iMove08?? Hmmmm, magic 8-ball says, “chances are good”. LOL
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
You said, “No question: APPE”S BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER! EVER!
Shame on MDN for being such a mindless booster of everything Jobs and everything Apple – why not some objective reporting, after all, he’s not perfect and neither his his company.
Apple faithful sustain it all and they have slapped us silly with this even siller blunder.”
While I will not call you an MS troll, you sound very much like one. While I do not like that Apple is killing Appleworks and other products v(I wish they would let some third party keep selling it) my comments on that, iMove08, and other Apple issues as well as others here, sound different than yours.
True Apple fans may not agree with Apple when they decide to do something, and we do not mind voicing our opinions, we usually have a tone of consideration in our written voice.
But the MS trolls usually sound different!! Its like they are always saying the same thing with different words.
— “Apple did something bad. BAD APPLE. Kill Apple!!!!! Apple will turn on (you) er, all of us and doom us!!!”
How many postings have we seen here for any Apple product, where we have seen trolls??? claiming doom and gloom everytime Apple did something unexpected (or expected for that matter.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” /> ) They almost sound as obnocious as Zune Tang, almost. But they use words that are more — somehow — understnading. But not by much.
So, will I keep iMove 6, of course. And I will enjoy how it does things. But will I use iMove08?? Hmmmm, magic 8-ball says, “chances are good”. LOL
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
I can just imagine how MDN would try to put a positive spin on Apple cutting half of the features in Leopard in order to make the operating system easier to use.
Seriously, why is catering to the youtube crowd supposed to be a good thing? What next, .mac turning into MySpace? iTunes cutting features down to only play and stop, because ya know, only giving the user two buttons would make listening to music much simpler, and iTunes is free, so why make iTunes all fancy and stuff?
Hmmmm, see here is another possible MS troll.
On the surface this sounds like a reasonable post. But read it closely and we see: “I can just imagine how MDN would try to put a positive spin on Apple cutting half of the features in Leopard in order to make the operating system easier to use.”
Leopard has not even shipped and already they are making half baked comments that have no basis in reality. An old MS troll trick.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
And while MDN does tend to support Apple decisions, they also “wag” the finger at Apple too. I say before one complains to loudly, try the product, see if Apple has kept you from using your old version, and finally…. try Vista for a week, . . . . . . .
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
— then make some solid compaisons!!!
en
All the gnashing of teeth reminds me of when Dylan went electric–the folk community screamed betrayal. But Dylan went on to be better than ever.
Perhaps a better analogy is when Apple changed to OS X. We had to learn a new way of doing things. It took time, but it was worth it.
Same thing here, I think. I just did my first iMovie ’08 project, using video imported from iMovie HD, and it was quick and easy. For sure, all the plug-ins, etc will follow. Have some patience, folks; I’m sure Apple thought a lot about this before overhauling the software.
“Leopard has not even shipped and already they are making half baked comments that have no basis in reality. An old MS troll trick.”
– Either you lack comprehension skills or you don’t comprehend sarcasm because you apparently completely missed my point. I was not trying to say that Leopard is cutting features. Rather, if Leopard were to cut features, would MDN apply the same logic to that as they did to iMovie?
Having just made a quick movie with the new iMovie 08, I’ll have to admit it does have a bona-fide place for making ultra quick mash-ups but is definitely NOT an adequate replacement for iMovie 06. It’s simply not precise enough nor does it have enough features. Both are necessary for different reasons but I’ll hazard a guess that Apple will discontinue the iMovie 06 progression and force those wanting semi-pro video editing features to buy their Final Cut Express. I’ll be keeping my iMovie 06 version as long as it still works.
By the way, people are complaining NOT because they hate Apple but because they want to voice their opinions to make sure Apple does a good job on their next release. Sure Apple puts a lot of thought into their product releases, but they also listen to complaints from their customers (as any good company does). Complainig about an Apple product does not make someone a MS troll; it merely identifies those that are passionate about the brand they love.
Imovie 08 is alot better for me Imovie 06 i used a couple of times but it was too cumbersome for me
THe new version is innovative, incerdibly fast at putting something together I for one am very pleased.
If I want to make a fancy DVD I use IDVD not Imovie and I always did… So no it wasnt a huge mistake or one at all in my opinion and there are alot of happy users out there snf 06 id dtill ditting on my system gsthering dust if I want some of those older features but frankly O dont need them
If Apple wanted to do stuff with YouTube they should have just added the youtube output to the existing iMove.
The new iMovie is crap.
No it is NOT crap..
It is better for me by a mile
If you dont like it stick with the free version of the old movie as it rocks so much for you
Man I am sick of the bunch of moaners
Do they not have the brain capacity to open the old copy and use that but enjoy the new features of the new one..
Stop moaning you lot, get a real life
shane blyth: Yeah, we can still use ’06, but that’s just glossing over the fact that Apple reduced the capabilities of iMovie. For all the ballyhooing that Apple does about the Mac and iLife being great for creative stuff, iMovie is now less of a true video editor than (gasp) Windows Movie Maker.
Apple could have made it easy on themselves by making iMovie ’08 with two modes: ‘Basic’ which would be what we get in ’08, and ‘Advanced’ which would reveal the features removed from ’08 such as the timeline and audio levels.
@Brau: “Having just made a quick movie with the new iMovie 08, I’ll have to admit it does have a bona-fide place for making ultra quick mash-ups but is definitely NOT an adequate replacement for iMovie 06. It’s simply not precise enough nor does it have enough features.”
Right on, Brau! Which is exactly what all the legions of Apple customers have been saying too. This is not an uprising against the good things in 08 – it’s against the loss of the accumulated good things from 1.0 to 06.
Rory has it exactly right – Apple needs to combine the ease of use and faster engine of iMovie 08 with the feature set iMovie 06 already had. For Jobs to build up a base of users – indeed iMovie’s entire reputation – on software that at VERSION 1.0 did more than this ‘upgrade’ is totally, unequivocally, 100% wrong.
Speaking of “wrong”; it’s pretty clear that MDN posting this story, and all these previously unseen screen names coming out of nowhere and cheering “Hooray for 08!” immediately after, are all part of a Steve Jack ‘plant’. He’s either trying to A] rehab is ruined image, B] create an ‘astroturf’ movement that will (he hopes) bring enough of the ‘lemmings’ around to his way of thinking, or C] both. But whichever you want to latch on to as pre-eminnent, it shows all of you in no uncertain terms just how little the guy running MDN actually respects the opinion of the average Mac user. He won’t accept his previous ‘take’ was wrong-headed, he won’t give any weight to the VAST majority’s needs/wants when it comes to Jobs decisions …
Basically he’s a tool. And decent Mac fans are just website hits to him.
The Magic Word is the only part of this sight that speaks the truth. What do I mean? The one I will have to type in this very moment is – I kid you not – “real”. Fucking freaky, but it does shit like this all the time!
Abide The Word, MDN … Abide The Word.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”cool grin” style=”border:0;” />
As Rory said, it’s really too bad Apple did not incorporate the two together to accommodate basic and advanced users within one app. That would have silenced all the critics. That said, at least it did not erase my iMovie 06; for that I’m very glad.
@@Stubbern Facts (snicker, snicker) and @@me
There are currently 241 reviews of iLife 08 on Apples own online store. You have to be a member of of .Mac to be able to leave a review. well over 80% of the reviews are negative.
I doubt that MS trolls are spending the $$ to leave negative reviews at the Apple Store online.
Seems like lots of posters recently on MDN have come over from the Microsoft ‘Get the Facts’ campaign !oxymoron alert!.
Now we know Microsoft is worried. Now we know Microsoft can’t win. What they don’t know is that FUD only works when hand in hand with bribery (search Preston Gates Ellis) and bribery doesn’t work with consumers when they ripped them off first, and second, and third time around.
That’s not saying some genuine mac users are pissed with changes, change is difficult, even changing from Windows to Mac is too much for some people, but even 80% negative from a loyal fan base is not that bad a score, it’s the pissed people who complain, the happy people just get on with it.
What remains to be seen is how it comes out in a few months time, how Apple responds, how users adapt. Remember OS 10.0, loads of gripes, some got fixed, some people adapted, by 10.3 the world was singing it’s praises.
@Gandalf
Great analogy comparing the transistion of OS 9 to OS X to the current iMovie dilemma. Many features from OS 9 such as spring loaded folders weren’t added till Panther and they also still letted you run OS 9 for when you needed it not unlike Apple still letting you use iMovie ’06. Apple will most likely add all those old features back into iMovie ’08 over the course of this year and they will be way better!
Great point!
Interesting that MDN always, always thinks contribution to these discussions from those of us who are stuck with PCs at work are trolls.
MDN is usually justified in their strong support for Jobs and Apple.
They would be even moreso if they didn’t expose their over-the-top bias by defending something as indefensible as the iMovie 08 blunder that has stabbed the great majority of the iMovie faithful squarely between the shoulder blades.
” Many features from OS 9 such as spring loaded folders weren’t added till Panther”
And the reason they were added back in is because loyal Mac users COMPLAINED about it.
At the Apple Store online iLife ’08 has 287 reviews now, still only 2.5 stars out of 5.
iWork ’08, on the other hand, has a rating of 4 out of 5 stars with 90 reviews.
Does anyone, besides me, find it rather odd that a number of people (who have apparantly never been bothered enough to post anything before) are now rushing in to defend MDN from fellow Mac users?
And isn’t it also odd that MDN is now attempting to find vindication of its “take” by referring to blogs at PC World?
I’m just waiting to read MDN takes (or the absence thereof) of iMovie reviews from Dvork and Enderle.
It’s no wonder there was no MDN take on this guy’s article. This guy is using the same sort of rational as MDN. From the article: “As software users, it’s our duty to look for the intentions of the software designer.”
WTF!! This is insane. The designers intentions don’t mean squat. This guy is as big a tool as Dvorak, Enderle and others of their ilk.
If software works for me, it works. If it doesn’t, then I don’t use it. The only “duty” I have (or any user has) is to determine whether or not a particular application “works” for them. And to abide by the terms of the software EULA.
And that brings up another point.
If Apple didn’t want people using iMovie for “professional” or commercial purposes (several software companies do this sort of thing), then they should have stated that in the EULA for iMovie and in any promotion for the iLife suite. Something alnog the lines of “Not to be used for commercial purposes.”
Why didn’t they?
Maybe it was because Apple was too busy promoting iMovie to non-video professionals in various businesses as a tool that could give them “professional” looking results with their promotional activities.
In other words “for commercial purposes.”
@@Spock:
I’m not saying we shouldn’t complain about the lack of features, just do so in a civil manner. Yeah its missing some features such as themes and effects and a few other things which as a said in my 1st comment are probably going to be added back with Leopard. But look at the blinding bright side:
It added a iPhoto like way of organizing your video library.
Skimming(with sound),selcting movies like text
keywords
rating parts of clips(not just whole clips)
adjust color
croping
events
can automaticly add transistions
selcting parts of music is just as easy as selecting video
titles length can be adjusted live
youtube
lots of other things
And if you think about it, iMovie ’08’s editing style would work great on any future multi-touch Mac
It’s designed for the iphone. The skimming,moving, shifting, simple titling lend itself to a multitouch iphone app. Just wait and see. Shoot with a camera similar to the Panasonic Jobs highlights in his keynote, (8 Gig flashcard) load it straight into the iphone, edit quickly, send to wherever you wish. This is what Imovie will be all about.
get over it children