“Microsoft Corp., the world’s largest software maker, as early as 2003 considered a partnership with Apple Inc. or creating its own digital music player to rival Apple’s dominant iPod,” Dina Bass and Bob Van Voris report for Bloomberg.
Bass and Van Voris report, “Microsoft, displeased with hardware partners Creative Technology Ltd. and Dell Inc. that made players using Microsoft’s Windows Media software, talked about building its own device, according to an e-mail exchange between Windows chief Jim Allchin and media software executive Amir Majidimehr. The correspondence, introduced into evidence in a civil antitrust trial against Microsoft in Des Moines, Iowa, was made public today.”
“Allchin, who started the exchange in an e-mail entitled ‘sucking on media players,’ also suggested he talk to Apple Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs to get the iPod to work with Microsoft’s media software for fear the iPod would ‘drive people away from Windows Media Player.’ Microsoft introduced its Zune music player in November,” Bass and Van Voris report.
“‘My goodness it’s terrible,’ Allchin wrote about one of Creative’s devices. ‘What I don’t understand though is I was told the new Creative Labs device would be comparable to Apple. That is so not the case,'” Bass and Van Voris report. “Majidimehr replied ‘Now you feel our pain.” He said Microsoft was providing cash incentives to get the partners to improve devices. If that doesn’t work ‘it is time for us to roll up our sleeves and do our own hardware,’ he wrote.”
Bass and Van Voris report, “Microsoft sold ‘hundreds of thousands’ of Zune devices during Christmas, according to Microsoft’s Entertainment and Devices Division President Robbie Bach. Apple sold 21.1 million iPods last quarter.”
Full article here.
At least Allchin doesn’t need to change the subject of his future emails, as the re-badged Toshiba GigaBeat, which they call “Zune,” fits the billing of Microsoft “sucking on media players” perfectly.
Microsoft just doesn’t get it. They do not have the attention-to-detail, the taste, the hunger to strive for perfection, or the proper personnel in the correct creative environment necessary to produce user experiences anywhere near what Apple offers. Microsoft Windows is woefully behind the Mac, still, after some 22 years of trying to be “just like a Mac.” The Zune software next to iTunes is a laugher. The Zune next to an iPod is a joke. The Zune next to an iPhone’s iPod is just plain sad. At their best, Microsoft is a cesspool of mediocrity.
Why is Microsoft’s mission to make cheesy copies of Apple products and market them to the ignorant? How can Microsoft’s management and employees be proud of “their work” or are they just proud of how much they reap from suckers who don’t know any better?
In the future, when Microsoft execs trumpet their partnerships (remember URGE, Napster, etc.?), keep in mind that they’ll probably be emailing each other about how much their partners suck when they really ought to be looking in the mirror.
Related articles:
Windows chief Allchin 2004 email: I’d buy a Mac if I didn’t work for Microsoft – December 11, 2006
The Motley Fool: Apple makes Microsoft’s Zune a paperweight – January 10, 2007
PC World writer’s advice for Microsoft: ‘Stop making crap’ – July 27, 2006
Apple again leads Consumer Reports’ survey for notebook, desktop computer tech support, value, more – October 16, 2006
Apple Mac desktops, notebooks top PC Magazine’s Annual Reader Satisfaction survey – again – August 22, 2006
Apple far outscores all other PC makers in Consumer Reports Computer Tech Support Survey – May 05, 2006
Apple Mac desktops, portables top PC Magazine’s 2005 Reader Satisfaction survey – August 24, 2005
Apple Computer products top PC Magazine’s annual ‘Best of the Year’ survey – December 16, 2004
Apple Macs top PC Magazine’s ’17th Annual Reader Satisfaction Survey’ – August 10, 2004
Apple leads PC Magazine’s 16th annual Service and Reliability Survey – July 10, 2003
We really only have anecdotal evidence that the quality of Apple’s products may have declined in recent years, not empiracle scientifically gathered statistics. Still, anecdotal evidence often is the starting point that motivates creation of those scientific studies.
Whatever the reality, this much is true: One of Apple’s greatest challenges going forward from here is to maintain a legendary level of quality as the company ramps up production and market share and creates all new product lines. The use of outsourced components and labor from multiple Asian companies operating in different factories must be a dificult juggling act. I sure hope Apple has a tough S.O.B. overseeing quality control.
“No one in this world, so far as I know, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.”
HL Mencken(1880–1956), Tribune (Sept. 19, 1926)
Comparing the trolls: Ask Yourself, may, after years and years of diligent study in focused antagonism, maybe get to somewhere near the level of Zune Tang. But probably not. And, at any rate, it’s also apparent that he won’t ever have as much fun doing it.
ZT’s verbatim recitation of Gates’ tortuously rambling quote, prefixed by calling it “really smart” is one of those signs that make me think that (1) he’s actually a Mac fan in persona trying to entertain us, like the Stephen Colbert character, and (2) that he’s the same guy as Sputnik. Bonus points for praising the Ditty.
I’m just surprised Gates got through a sentence without mentioning “rich content.”
Welcome to the Socialist. (And my magic word is “social” — you can’t make this stuff up.)
Amen, Arnold Ziffel. Apple products may not be 100% perfect, but they have been in my recent history of a G5 desktop, two PowerBooks, a MacBook and several generations of iPods.
@zer0
yeah dude, I see your point, Apple really cut corners on that iPhone thingy… jeez, only 30 months of R&D and they think that its ready to show the public? What gives!
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And the UI on that thing, man after 30 years of designing UI’s you’d think they’d get SOMETHING right.
I see Zune Tang finally poked his head out of the Redmond rabbit hole. The Tang was all but speechless last week and kept a very low profile after the iPhone announcement at Macworld Expo. I guess it took this long for the brain trust at Microsoft and Edelman PR to come up with a new set of anti-iPod talking points and e-mail them out to the lemmings.
So Zune Tang, just how long do you think it will take your company to try and copy this version of the iPod and Apple’s new software look-and-feel? A couple of years? Five years? 10 years? Check back with Redmon for a sanctioned respnse and let us know. Too bad Apple hadn’t shown this latest iPod incarnation BEFORE Microsoft wasted two years lamely trying to copy Apple’s 2001 iPod product designs.
Welcome back to “The Social” (done correctly, the Apple iPhone way). And start trying to anticpate “where the puck will be next,” you morons…
Typos will be the death of me…
Why is Microsoft’s mission to make cheesy copies of Apple products and market them to the ignorant?
Because without good guys and bad guys, there’s no movie.
Aren’t you happy that the good guys are at Apple instead of Microsoft?
I sure hope not! Let me be clear, I’m a Mac geek through and through and have had nothing short of a perfect experience with Macs. I just hope that the experiences my friends and others seem to be having does not become a trend.
And to everyone else asking to see actual numbers, return rates are something companies are going to keep a closely guarded secret so we may only be able to tell if we look for this sort of thing trending.
Does anyone know if Apple has to release those numbers in their public financial reports?
My source for my claim of significant increase in problems with Mac products is a senior Apple technician in Austin, TX. He serves commercial clients who order multiples of everything – largely MacPros, MBPs, usual support items and bundles of software.
He says that, still today, about one in ten MBPs have case warping problems, and MacPros are running the gamut of glitches and issues uncommon a year ago. His customers are usually tolerant since he simply gets them a replacement machine immediately. However, we consumers are faced with the crews in the Apple Retail Stores who offer to do a refurb job on a new, out-of-the-box, overpriced something or another, and wind up with a refurb machine we paid full price for.
Not a good situation and, with Steve committed to Chinese assembly lines, this situation is the future – just like MSoft, HP, Dell, even Sony.
There you are. The answer you demanded. Call me all the names you want, but what I describe is the absolute reality at Apple these days. Wish all you want it wasn’t so, but wishing won’t make it so.
Microsoft admits that whatever it touches it turns to crap and there is no reasonable expectation for achieving excellence. Eventually, the wave of prosperity that Microsoft has been riding for twenty years will crash on the rocks of failure and mismanagement, crushing Redmond under the weight of unmet promises and mediocre products.
@Ask Yourself
Second hand anecdotal “evidence” is still worth squat.
As are your barely veiled racist remarks, quote: “Not a good situation and, with Steve committed to Chinese assembly lines, this situation is the future…”
I suggest you take a trip to the nearest museum with Chinese antiquities, and look at the craftsmanship of one thousand year old lacquerware and then suggest that the Chinese are not capable of soldering a few components together. Sheesh!
Ask Yourself
Thanks for the response. But still no numbers. You may be right, but at as far as I know, no computer manufacturers publish this data. Therefore, any comparisons with other computer manufacturers is pointless.
Maybe we could have some one here respond with any third party evealutations of computer reliability, for example Consumer Reports?
@askyourself
Even if what you say is true – and one source does not a ‘trend’ make – what is important is that Apple TOPS the customer service ratings. That means that it does a GREAT job of helping people when things go wrong.
Apple have done it right and continues to generate new, HIGHLY LOYAL, customers, to the envy of Microsoft, Dell, HP and in that respect is unlike any other manufacturer in the industry.
Apple do have an good OS and hardware combined together to work well. The OS X Tiger is better then windows because its based on Unix foundation. I Usually recommend people to use Macs. If they cant handle Windows Machines with security issues such as Spyware, Viruses. Bye
Ch.Blackthorne
that’s right, as much as we would like it, MS is not going South. there os a much bigger market for cheaper products that for quality stuff, it’s the nature of the beast.
“The reason for this is Steve’s infatuation with (1) himself and (2) his joy at having countless lemmings in the audience, in the stores and in the media fawning all around him.”
Um, hey idiot, if it wasn’t for Steve’s high standards and attention to detail, APple wouldnt have shipped a high quality product in the last 10 years. In fact, there would be no Apple.
The use of outsourced components and labor from multiple Asian companies operating in different factories must be a dificult juggling act. I sure hope Apple has a tough S.O.B. overseeing quality control.
Shady suppliers and underhanded tactics are currently rampant across Asia. They’ll run through complete garbage any way they can, sometimes with disastrous results. Case in point: at least one power plant has fatally exploded from being unwittingly built with unrated Chinese steam pipe. Google for Datong Power Station, Unit 2.
China has to realize they aren’t being entrusted with five-cent plastic toys. Quality matters, and if they don’t get it together their customers will start going elsewhere. What good is cheap when it’s JUNK?
Apple has proven you can design good products only when you do it yourself. Perhaps the same holds true with manufacturing.
“Evidence: ALL of the Intel products are of lower quality as it pertains to poor fit and finish, poor out-of-the-box readiness to work, and poor initial comsumer impression. Proof: percentage of sales that are returned within the first 30 days for some kind of service – usually something cosmetic, but often involving the internals as well. That’s percentage of sales, so you can’t explain the skyrocketing dissatisfaction index on increased numbers being sold.”
That’s not evidence, that’s accusation and hyperbole. Would you like to post Apple’s returned merchandise numbers? I haven’t checked them in a while. I know that Dell hovers around 23%, and Apple regularly wins for best customer service in the industry. But I’d love to see some evidence to the contrary.
Idiot.
-c
MDN said: “At their best, Microsoft is a cesspool of mediocrity.” Ouch!
That has been one of my personal fav descriptions of Mafiasoft over the years.
Rock on MDN!
Zune Tang wrote: “I love my Dell Ditty almost as much as I like my Zune”
You bought a Dell? So you’re the one! Dell did so well selling those, they don’t even make MP3 players anymore. It’s like owning an Edsel.
Our government department has had Macs for the last 12 years that I have been there and well before that. They are replaced and shuffled down on a regular basis, so I’ve seen a lot of Macs over the years and I can unequivocally say that the quality of the Mac has never been higher. I new 24″ iMac is stunning in it’s quality and attention to detail. Anyone that says that quality is declining is sucking slough water. Customer support has always been stellar. And of those hundreds of machines the only problem I can think of is a failed hard drive in 5 year old eMac. Machines that old are used in a test bed and run 24/7 Our Dells last about 2 years before they go to surplus.
OK, sure, there are lemons with any product, but certainly isn’t the norm with Apple products.
“Allchin at the time was leading development of Longhorn, the code name for Windows Vista, which reaches stores Jan. 30. Allchin, who is retiring after Vista is released, referred to Longhorn as “a pig” and said “we have lost our way.”
I love that! He’ll be getting a Mac next month.
I see the Microsoft of today surviving only because of Windows and their Office cash cow. All they know how to do, it seems, is leverage their monopoly from the DOS/Win95/98 days. First it was software like IE v. Netscape, then WMP v. QT, WinCE v. Palm, .NET v. LAMP and now, Zune v. iPod.
I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but every time they try, they succeed less and less.
Is MSFT just running on fumes?
Now, now. Play nice!!
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Microsoft sold, say 250,000 Zunes in Dec. I say, good for them. I would really like to see their Jan sales, since everything drops in Jan.
But really, Apple is getting ready to push the 100,000,000 iPod sale. That is going to be hard to beat. Even a young high school student I talked to said that if you do not have an iPod, you are not cool.
But as far as the Ford thing. I really have to wonder. Is this a ZUNE thing?
If so then everyone else is blocked out. If its an mp3 player then everyone can connect, buy how do you do control for all those different types of players??????? And since its by Microsoft, the big question is when will MS abandon Ford, like they have everyone else???
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Just thinking.
N.