“I think it can now be safely said, in hindsight, that Microsoft’s entry into the browser business and its subsequent linking of the browser into the Windows operating system looks to be the worst decision—and perhaps the biggest, most costly gaffe—the company ever made. I call it the Great Microsoft Blunder,” John C. Dvorak writes for PC Magazine. “All of Microsoft’s Internet-era public-relations and legal problems (in some way or another) stem from Internet Explorer. If you were to put together a comprehensive profit-and-loss statement for IE, there would be a zero in the profits column and billions in the losses column—billions. The joke of it is that Microsoft is still working on this dead albatross and is apparently ready to roll out a new version, since most of the smart money has been fleeing to Firefox or Opera. This means new rounds of patches and lost money.”
Dvorak writes, “Microsoft should pull the browser out of the OS and discontinue all IE development immediately. It should then bless the Mozilla.org folks with a cash endowment and take an investment stake in Opera, to influence the future direction of browser technology from the outside in. Then, Microsoft can worry about security issues that are OS-only in nature, rather than problems compounded by Internet Explorer.”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Scott” for the heads up.]
MacDailyNews Take: The U.S. should just hook up John C. Dvorak to a steam-powered generator and we’d all have free electricity for as long as he lives. Now, in this case, by chance, Dvorak’s actually correct. IE causes nothing but headaches for Microsoft. Internet Explorer is the Windows of browsers. Of course we mean that in the worst possible way. That 80% or so still use IE should tell you just about all you need to know about the majority of humans. Furthermore, those that design web sites to be Internet Explorer-only are talentless hacks.
On a Mac, we use Safari, FireFox, Camino, and Netscape in that order. If stuck with a Windows PC, we’d use FireFox with a Safari-like theme.
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Related articles:
Firefox breaks 10% mark, Microsoft’s Internet Explorer lost nearly 4% market share in past year – April 04, 2006
Security report shows Microsoft’s Internet Explorer was unsafe for all but seven days of 2004 – March 22, 2005
Penn State’s IT Services recommends dumping Microsoft Internet Explorer immediately – December 09, 2004
Security expert: Don’t use Microsoft Windows, Office, Outlook, Internet Explorer – December 09, 2004
Microsoft Windows, Internet Explorer products reflect arrogance, sloppiness – November 21, 2004
Web Standards Project: Abandon Microsoft Internet Explorer and ‘Browse Happy’ – August 25, 2004
IT managers loath to switch from flawed Microsoft Internet Explorer – July 07, 2004
Securty expert: Microsoft Internet Explorer ‘just cannot be trusted, use alternate browser’ – July 02, 2004
Security firm warns of new Internet Explorer flaw, advises ‘use a different browser’ – July 01, 2004
Microsoft axes Internet Explorer for Mac – June 13, 2003
I had no problem accessing my hotmail account on Safari until I opted to try out mail live beta. I deleted IE for mac over a year ago and currently have Firefox and Opera next to Safari in my dock. I prefer safari over any other browser I have ever used, but Opera 9 has some really great features that I hope Apple will adopt into Safari.
When it comes to IE, that program almost singlehandedly helped to solidify MS hold on the computer industry in the early 90s. It indoctrinated millions of users and many still think that IE is the internet or at least the only way to access it. IE has become a dinosaur in the browser world because of MS’s horrible bureaucracy. I doubt that MS will make IE 7 impressive enough to beat out all the great extras that firefox, opera, flock offer. At least MS got wise and has removed the need to have IE in order to install updates for Vista, at least thats what I read. I think that IE will only continue to lose ground to Firefox and Safari in the coming years cause people like customization and extras.
I was disappointed to find out yesterday that part of the American Airlines web site (aa.com) is incompatible with Safari. When I contacted them I got the following reply:
“Customers on AA.com using the MAC OS with the Safari and IE browsers
have reported problems when using our Reservations section, “Book
Flights” page, when selecting the ‘Search by Fare’ and ‘Dates Flexible’
options.
As a temporary measure, we have tested and recommend downloading the
Firefox browser for these reported problems when using MAC systems. (1.0
version currently available as a free download in http://www.mozilla.org).
Since Apple no longer supports any MAC operating system version older
than 10.0, we also recommend that customers upgrade their operating
system to a 10.0 version or higher prior to downloading the Firefox
browser.”
It is not clear from this whether they are interested in fixing the web page, but it is disappointing that their developers don’t support Safari. (I also don’t understand why they capitalize “MAC”).
IE 6.0 is OK, IE 7.0. looks like it’ll be similar to Opera a couple of years back. It’s way more stable than Safari, which is still the most unstable browser I know, although nice to use when it’s up. Shame it doesn’t have decent ad blocking though. I guess Firefox is my favourite, but I do like the new Opera with it’s built in Bittorrent. That’s very handy – I downloaded the latest Eclipse with it a couple of days ago, and all you have to do is drop the torrent onto Opera and off it goes. All in all though, I don’t understand the big deal with browsers. All I really use are bookmarks, forward and back and various plugins. If they’re supported, all I then require is stability and speed. IE has both. Safari only speed.
PLEASE KILL THAT SHIT!!!!!!!! for me web devel its big thing!!!!! no more shit browsers! AMEN
Insane my ass…
So what are you doing here? See?
Besides, you should do your homework before posting and know that WebKit and JavaScriptCore, the foundations of Safari, are present in many Apple apps, including your beloved iTunes…
>Camino is the best, runs faster then Safari and renders form fields/buttons etc better then Firefox.>
Nothing runs faster ‘THEN’ anything else.
Try than.
MW – various- as in people use various ways to spell.
“I’m . . . gonnnnnnnaaaaaa . . .
get me a shotgun and kill all the IE’s I see
I’m gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the IE’s I see
When I kill all the IE’s I see
There’ll be no IE’s to bother MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I’m gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the IE’s I see.”
Safari breaks when it tries to render an ASP page That is the only thing IE is good for on a Macintosh.
aa.com capitalizing MAC is stupid, but many make this mistake. MAC refers to the physical address of a CPU. What the site should say is:
“Customers on AA.com using the MAC OS with the Safari and IE browsers
have reported problems when using our Reservations section, “Book
Flights” page, when selecting the ‘Search by Fare’ and ‘Dates Flexible’
options.
As a temporary measure, we have tested and recommend downloading the Mozilla Firefox browser for these reported problems when using Apple® Macintosh® systems. (Firefox is available as a free download at http://www.mozilla.org).
Since Apple Computer, Inc. no longer supports any Macintosh operating system version older than 10.0, we also recommend that Macintosh customers upgrade their operating
system to Apple® OS X(10.2.x or higher) prior to downloading the Firefox
browser.”
Forgot the first paragraph changes:
“Customers on AA.com using the Apple® Macintosh® computers with the Safari and IE browsers have reported problems when using our Reservations section, “Book Flights” page, when selecting the ‘Search by Fare’ and ‘Dates Flexible’ options.
After Micro$oftopoly got tagged by the DoJ for building IE into Windoze, Apple did something very similar to OS X after it launched Safari. The code that makes Safari run is down deep and drawn upon by multiple apps, including iChat, iCal, Backup, the Finder, Software Update, iTunes, iWeb, Quicktime, iMovie, Garage Band and iPhoto. Makes ya go Hmmmmmmm…
Using such a setup is a double edged sword. It adds responsiveness & makes development and cross-application integration easier, but also makes any potential security hole the Grand Canyon. Take a look at Apple security updates to OS X before and after Safari came out. Most of them address the same potential vulnerabilities, by class and type, that afflict Internet Explorer.
A great deal of what makes Unix so secure is compromised by this approach. Otherwise, Mac OS X could be even more secure than it is, but Apple has made trade-offs by following the same flawed approach that Microsoft followed when they integrated IE so deeply into Windows.
Want to crash your Safari browser? A well known blog has a picture, yes- a picture, with code in it that will crash Safari faster than you can say Windows. It is not a security hole, but represents a class of problems with Safari that could be used for exploits in the future. You know what they say about people in glass houses– they shouldn’t throw stones.
Don’t say you were not warned.
It may not have been a win for users, but most people (not computer geeks like us, but the average person) still thinks the blue “e” is the internet. This has helped them to keep there stranglehold on the world, and generated a lot of ad revenue for Microsoft.
Wow, even when talking about Microsoft, Dvorak is STILL a moron!
A great deal of what makes Unix so secure is compromised by this approach.
Your point almost seemed to make sense, until you threw the bit above.
Unix is the most secure system not because its networking capabilities (ftp, http, mail systems, etc) but because of its user and permissions philosophy.
Unix was invented on a time when being a hacker was just being a clever programmer.
All of the troubles we have today come from the single fact that networking computing came before the realization of it in a comercial wise landscape.
Remember: the unix creators are on a different trip now, i.e., Inferno.
Unix has been Networked long before it ever hit a desktop. It’s not that it is networked, but how it is networked. Pushing aspects of the Browser and Networking down deep in the OS is where the genie gets out of the bottle. Below a certain level permissions do not apply. It is below this level that both MS & Apple have put critical components of Networking.
Regular Unix was not structured that way & for that reason.
This guy tends to go for radical positions:
One day he claims that OS X is dead and gone, the other that MS should stop developing IE.
Let me tell ya: both won’t happen.
He’s not right with the first, and he’s not right with the second.
A proper recherche would probably help to raise the level of his articles.
A client has a G3 w/ OS9 and Explorer 5 freezes so we went to MS’ Mactopia site for the newer 5.x version.
NO GO! You can’t even download it anymore — WTF !?!
Below a certain level permissions do not apply.
The question then must be: why?
We are probably getting to the gist of the matter: does the unix security model could scale well to the www era or was it doomed from the start?
Why there is an Inferno project after all?
These are the kind of questions one must ask if discussions on security want to claim for some relevance. Everything else is fanboyism.
I love the fact Apple changed to an underlying unix system, but many of the present security issues lie in unix’s historical reasons. I’m not saying they should’ve known better, but that they couldn’t foresee the future…
it’s absurd to think that MS would not have built a web browser .. but.. the way they squeezed it into the OS is mental. Just build an app, ship it with windows.
“MAC refers to the physical address of a CPU”
Nope, MAC refers specifically to the data-link address of a NIC. A computer can have more than one MAC. For example, on my iMac I have two interfaces, en0 & en1, both with six octet MACs.
“Microsoft should pull the browser out of the OS”
But MS CAN’T remove Explorer from Windows, no matter what!
Remember all the court testimony?
If MS pulls IE from Windows, the Feds reopen the antitrust case with a vengeance (not to mention likely perjury charges against MS execs). It’s a nasty catch-22, and I can’t say I feel any sympathy for MS.
MS’s only way out is to not embed Explorer in Vista. But does MS want to intentionally delay Vista at least another year? (Not that anyone seriously expects Vista to meet its current January 07 date anyway.)
After Micro$oftopoly got tagged by the DoJ for building IE into Windoze, Apple did something very similar to OS X after it launched Safari. The code that makes Safari run is down deep and drawn upon by multiple apps, including iChat, iCal, Backup, the Finder, Software Update, iTunes, iWeb, Quicktime, iMovie, Garage Band and iPhoto. Makes ya go Hmmmmmmm…
May be true, but you can uninstall Safari by a simple drag and drop. Not true with IE on a Winblows system. (see my post above)
> MDN wrote: The U.S. should just hook up John C. Dvorak to a steam-powered generator and we’d all have free electricity for as long as he lives.
Guys! You’re just too funny sometimes. Your comments are just as applicable to yourselves as they are to Dvorak.
Amazing that you don’t see it. Amazing that the majority of your readers don’t see it.
Camino/Shiira is better than Firefox for the Mac, but iCab is my utility browser of choice. Opera is quirky.
Yes, I’ve been enjoying my Safari. It’s faster, simpler, and better than Internet Exploiter. But one thing that IE does that Safari isn’t able to do is access web documents that were generated using Microsoft Windows.
We all know that Windows has their own ways of doing things, and that includes generating HTML code. In perfect Microsoft style, they generate HTML that only Internet Explorer can read. I can’t even fool these pages by using Safari’s User Agent. It just won’t let me view some of these pages.
Since everyone in business thinks that the Windows way is the only way, they are going to have a hell of a time doing without IE as their browser of choice. It’s just another Dvorak fantasy and us Mac user’s wishful thinking. Good luck with that.
I’ll still happily enjoy using my Safari, but I won’t delude myself into thinking that it’s the only thing out their worth using.