“Until recently, Bill Gates has been viewed as the villain of the tech world, while his archrival, Steve Jobs, enjoys an almost saintly reputation,” Leander Kahney writes in a commentary for Wired News. “Gates is the cutthroat capitalist. A genius maybe, but one more interested in maximizing profits than perfecting technology. He’s the ultimate vengeful nerd. Ostracized at school, he gets the last laugh by bleeding us all dry.”
“On the other hand, Jobs has never seemed much concerned with business, though he’s been very successful at it of late. Instead, Jobs has been portrayed as a man of art and culture. He’s an aesthete, an artist; driven to make a dent in the universe,” Kahney writes. “But these perceptions are wrong. In fact, the reality is reversed. It’s Gates who’s making a dent in the universe, and Jobs who’s taking on the role of single-minded capitalist, seemingly oblivious to the broader needs of society.”
“Gates is giving away his fortune with the same gusto he spent acquiring it, throwing billions of dollars at solving global health problems. He has also spoken out on major policy issues, for example, by opposing proposals to cut back the inheritance tax,” Kahney writes. “In contrast, Jobs does not appear on any charitable contribution lists of note. And Jobs has said nary a word on behalf of important social issues, reserving his talents of persuasion for selling Apple products. According to Forbes, Jobs was recently worth $3.3 billion which puts him among the 194th richest in the world, and makes him the 67th richest American. But the standings were shuffled on Tuesday with Disney’s $7.4 billion acquisition of Pixar Animation — a deal that makes Jobs’ Pixar holdings alone worth some $3.7 billion. But great wealth does not make a great man.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Note that even Kahney, soaring in mid shark-jump, can’t bring himself to write that Gates “earned” his fortune; just “acquired.” How did Bill Gates get that all of that money? Did he somehow “acquire” it legally while illegally abusing a monopoly? What exactly did he do to get it? Dupe typewriter company IBM into using an “operating system” he picked up for a song, constantly fake the Mac operating systems over the years, buy some companies, pretend to be innovative, etc? Bill Gates is a business genius, sure. He’s not a software genius. He’s not a visionary. He’s been following Steve Jobs for decades now and pretending to be a tech leader. In case you missed it: Windows is an upside down and backwards Mac, folks. Gates put the icons on the left side of his fake Desktop, renamed Trash to Recycle Bin, ran the whole thing through Microsoft’s patented “Intuition Destroyer,” boxed it up and hired The Stones. For this he deserves our adulation?! Sorry, but we’ll have to pass, Leander, as we’re still in our right minds.
Leander, we read about Robin Hood. We know about Robin Hood. Robin Hood could’ve been a friend of ours. Leander, Gates is no Robin Hood. Don’t believe everything you read in TIme.
As Kahney writes, Steve Jobs is an intensely private man. Kahney suggests that Jobs could be giving vast sums in private, without publicizing it. It is appallingly crass for Kahney to criticize Jobs and then praise Gates for publicizing his every contribution. Kaheny actually has the gall to write, “On the evidence, [Jobs is] nothing more than a greedy capitalist who’s amassed an obscene fortune. It’s shameful. In almost every way, Gates is much more deserving of Jobs’ rock star exaltation.” Kahney must have lost his mind; from jealousy perhaps? Hey, as long as it’s high season for impugning people’s motives willy nilly and without any facts, let’s go! How’s it feel, Leander?
The way in which people approach charity, how much money people give or don’t give to charity, and which charities they may or may not support is none of Leander Kahney’s or anybody else’s damn business.
Our advice to Kahney is to put down the TIme Magazine, go read Jobs’ 2005 Commencement Address to Stanford University, and take Jobs’ advice to heart, “Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life.”
Saw thins on Macworld.com – go get him boys!
Seems to me that the implication of the article is that Gates has bought his popularity with a pay check wheras Steve Jobs has not.
MDN, switch to decaf.
As usual, an Apple entity gets more criticism than it deserves. Why stop at Jobs. Let’s make a list of all top executives and their activities. Lets hang them all in the town square.
The ends doesn’t justify the means, and no matter how you cut it, Microsoft was found guilty of unfair business practices and monopoly. Just because they got off with hand slap doesn’t change this.
FWIW, I think gates SHOULD be giving away money considering how it was aquired. I don’t find Gates to be a genius, although he is certainly a saavy businessman. His company developed their product in a vacuum, without a true competitor. No Apple never did compete in that space despite what people might think. It’s easy to create a middle of the road product when you don’t really have anything driving you. Microsoft has proven this over and over.
To criticise Jobs is just ridiculous. It’s especially ridiculous to criticise him by comparison to Gates.
Bill Gates only does charity because it brings about a positive image for Microsoft as well as give Bill Gates nice tax breaks. I can see that Melinda Gates is passionate about what the Gates Foundation is doing, but not necessarily Bill Gates.
Even if Gates gave away every penny, he still wouldn’t be liked.
You can’t buy charisma.
I am here to assuage the guilty, to facilitate non-problematic removal of aforementioned ill-gotten gains … and everyone goes home happy. Your receipt is in the mail.
It’s so amazing to see how many people were plainly blinded by the dollar bills from Bill, that Bill knows how to play the publicity with his weath & people just fall right into his game, Stupid isn’t it? Well lets hope Bill will pick this writer up & give him a position as his personal writer, Hey Leander, nice job kissing ass but you know most people are smarter than you.
Apple had an answer to such idiots in their early days… works for those who speak bad about Gates and Charity and also for those who speak about Jobs and lack of charity…
“You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them,
disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing that you can’t do is ignore them.”
While I hope SJ does give a fair amount to charity (which would also mean he doesn’t self-promote every time he does it), SJ IS doing an enormous amount for society by providing innovative, productivity-enhancing, aesthetically-pleasing products and services. Just because he is in a for-profit company does not minimize that contribution; the money doesn’t make it “dirty.” SJ is the embodiment of how an individual can use the power of the market for positive ends.
What a very odd point of view this guy has. I’m sure that most people who read it will know its pushing the bounds of possibility.
Jobs is paid a $ a year by Apple, and his wealth is on paper only.. I wonder what Gates is paid in a naaverage year?
And of course, the greater the success at Apple, the more a few idiots will want to take it down..
After you have enough money to live as comfortably as you wish for the rest of your life, there are only so many things you can do with the rest of it.
Gates is proving to be a control freak AND a political animal which is a shame, he should stick to conning the world. It’s what he’s best at.
Leander – what happened to all your Apple love?
I thought you were one of the “cult” leaders.
What a stupid piece. “Lack of visible Charity” bashing?
I mean… come on.
All the extra productivity that the Mac OS gives the world vs. Windoze
folks chasing viruses and pop-ups while using the hideous Windows UI is charity enough.
Get a grip.
– ndb
what a turd.Just like microsoft donates old computers & software to developing countries. In their best interest. The greediest capitalists- Carnegie, Pullman, et al., have always donated huge sums of money. whether thats guilt money or PR money I don’t know. That din’t stop them from exploiting the small guy.
It’s easy for Gates to fight against the repeal inheritance tax. Gosh, his children might get half a gazillion dollars instead of the full gazillion. The filthy rich who “aquired” money by being in the right place at the right time also tend to the leftand be generous as opposed to the right- while people who work their ass off to get their loot tend to want to hold onto it- the fault of the self-made man (Socrates).
Lets not forget that while Gates is giving away millions to charitable foundations, his foundation also invests heavily in pharmaceutical companies, who’s goals are not to cure illnesses, but rather make them treatable and forcing people to shell out a lot of cash for their drugs.
Criticising Steve Jobs is stupid, the article says it has no clue what he does in respect of charitable endeavours. Assuming Steve Jobs does donate a proportionate sum to Gates does that mean that charity is worth more if you tell people about it? Of course not. If they had definitive proof that Steve Jobs did nothing charitable then you could argue that it was mean and overtly capitalistic of him, but they don’t.
Full credit to Bill Gates for all he does but comparing the two people in an arena where you don’t have all the facts makes no sense and is just cheap and easy.
I really do appreciate what the Gates Foundation does. And it should not be overlooked what Bill and Melinda Gates do in the area of philanthropy.
My problem is that no matter how many billions that Gates gives, it puts absolutely no pressure on his standard of living. He could give away 99% of his net worth and still be infinitely more wealthy than 99% of americans. So he gives away a couple of billions. That is wonderful, and the world is better off for it, but it isn’t a burden on him and it doesn’t make him a saint for doing it.
I donate an infinitely larger percentage of my net worth to charity than Bill Gates. When I donate money to charity I feel it. Does it make me better that Bill? No, but $1B to Bill is pocket change to a regular american. Bill deserve no special adoration for his charitable giving. At least no more than someone who contributes cookies to a United Way bake sale.
Remember that poor kid who was killed for his iPod in NY, Steve called his father personally (and didn’t want the press to know about it). Somehow I doubt Bill would have done the same.
Bill Gates is trying to buy a lifetime’s worth of indulgences, probably because he’s afraid of going to hell….
Your Mama –
You don’t give an infinitely larger percentage. It is definitely finite.
Kahney has those green eyes. I bet any public donation that Jobs has given is more than the sum of what Kahney could ever hope to give in three lifetimes. Plus, Jobs works for a dollar and earns his salary by making his company perform in the marketplace. Lastly, it is far more admirable that Jobs is humble and does not take credit for his gifts unlike Gates’ thinly veiled attempts at charity to reduce his taxable obligations to the government. Jobs is a true leader, Gates is a copycat in every sense of the word.
sosumi: i may hate M$ as much as the next guy, but contrary to popular belief Gates is not a robot. i would be surprised if he wouldn’t act in the same manner.
>MDN wrote: The way in which people approach charity, how much money people give or don’t give to charity, and which charities they may or may not support is none of Leander Kahney’s or anybody else’s damn business.
An easy way to defend Jobs giving zilch to the world and Gates giving multi-billions. With the MDN logic, it doesn’t even matter. Billions of dollars to help the world do not matter.
Ahhhhh…. it all makes so much nonsense to me now.
>MDN wrote: The way in which people approach charity, how much money people give or don’t give to charity, and which charities they may or may not support is none of Leander Kahney’s or anybody else’s damn business.
An easy way to defend Jobs giving zilch to the world and Gates giving multi-billions. With the MDN logic, it doesn’t even matter. Billions of dollars to help the world do not matter.
Ahhhhh…. it all makes so much nonsense to me now.
>MDN wrote: The way in which people approach charity, how much money people give or don’t give to charity, and which charities they may or may not support is none of Leander Kahney’s or anybody else’s damn business.
An easy way to defend Jobs giving zilch to the world and Gates giving multi-billions. With the MDN logic, it doesn’t even matter. Billions of dollars to help the world do not matter.
Ahhhhh…. it all makes so much nonsense to me now.
>MDN wrote: The way in which people approach charity, how much money people give or don’t give to charity, and which charities they may or may not support is none of Leander Kahney’s or anybody else’s damn business.
An easy way to defend Jobs giving zilch to the world and Gates giving multi-billions. With the MDN logic, it doesn’t even matter. Billions of dollars to help the world do not matter.
Ahhhhh…. it all makes so much nonsense to me now.
I was thinking of purchasing Kahney’s “Cult of Mac” book but this guy just lost a sale. Not only is his article way off on Bill Gates’s description but it is totally unfair to SJ. To prop up Gates as some deserved tech innovator is just wrong.
Anyone know his email address so that I can personally tell him I won’t be buying any of his stuff?
$129 for the most advanced OS developed for the general population and $79 for the whole iLife suite of advanced aps seems pretty charitable to me.
– or –
Is it that charging $299 for Office is gouging?
If Microsoft had anything like iLife, what do you think they would charge?
I’m not a fan of Bill’s and I do not like how he got his money, but I do like his charity work. I agree that it is nobodies business how much and to whom a person gives money and I am sure that Steve has his charities that he supports. He has very strong political views but tries to keep them separate from his businesses. I respect him for these decision but I also recognize that it is impossible to great a foundation as big as the Bill & Melinda Gate Foundation and not have it publicly scrutinized. Bill Gates is making a difference with his foundation and should be given credit for it. Steve Jobs is also making a difference and should also be recognized, not villainized for being a private person.
How many of you would turn down a Nobel Prize because you don’t like blood money?
Some here may recall that Gates was severely criticized by Ted Turner because he disproportionately failed to contribute to charities sveral years agao. Gates was clearly stung by this criticism, and since then, ne and his personal PR machine have set about to change that perception. They have clearly succeeded as many PR efforts funded by billions of dollars will. I think it’s great that Gates gives lots of money away. Bully, as they say. So what? What has it done for his products or his customers?
Gates’s philanthropy is long overdue atonement. What has Jobs done in his career at Apple that compares with the unscrupulous tactics over which Gates has presided for so many years at Microsoft? And now that Gates has “got religion” we should view him as a saint? God, it makes one want to retch!
>Your Mama: So he gives away a couple of billions. That is wonderful, and the world is better off for it, but it isn’t a burden on him and it doesn’t make him a saint for doing it.
WTF kind of logic is that?! Completely ridiculous!
—
You sum it up nicely in this statement:
>My problem is that no matter how many billions that Gates gives, it puts absolutely no pressure on his standard of living.
Ahhhh….. and yet more nonsense.
>Your Mama: So he gives away a couple of billions. That is wonderful, and the world is better off for it, but it isn’t a burden on him and it doesn’t make him a saint for doing it.
WTF kind of logic is that?! Completely ridiculous!
—
You sum it up nicely in this statement:
>My problem is that no matter how many billions that Gates gives, it puts absolutely no pressure on his standard of living.
Ahhhh….. and yet more nonsense.
>Your Mama: So he gives away a couple of billions. That is wonderful, and the world is better off for it, but it isn’t a burden on him and it doesn’t make him a saint for doing it.
WTF kind of logic is that?! Completely ridiculous!
—
You sum it up nicely in this statement:
>My problem is that no matter how many billions that Gates gives, it puts absolutely no pressure on his standard of living.
Ahhhh….. and yet more nonsense.
>Your Mama: So he gives away a couple of billions. That is wonderful, and the world is better off for it, but it isn’t a burden on him and it doesn’t make him a saint for doing it.
WTF kind of logic is that?! Completely ridiculous!
—
You sum it up nicely in this statement:
>My problem is that no matter how many billions that Gates gives, it puts absolutely no pressure on his standard of living.
Ahhhh….. and yet more nonsense.
How about these folks who have much more the Stevie boy. Wow, journalsts can really be narrow minded and make anyone they want look bad with there little writer hate mongering.
1. William Gates III, Washington, 49, $46.5, Microsoft
2. Warren Buffett, Nebraska, 74, $44, Berkshire Hathaway
3. Lakshmi Mittal, India, 54, $25, steel
4. Carlos Slim Helu, Mexico, 65, $23.8, telecom
5. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud, Saudi Arabia, 48, $23.7, investments
6. Ingvar Kamprad, Sweden, 78, $23, Ikea
7. Paul Allen, Washington, 52, $21, Microsoft, investments
8. Karl Albrecht, Germany, 85, $18.5, supermarkets
9. Lawrence Ellison, California, 60, $18.4, Oracle
10. S. Robson Walton, Arkansas, 61, $18.3, Wal-Mart
Mac & PC Guy wrote, “An easy way to defend Jobs giving zilch to the world and Gates giving multi-billions. With the MDN logic, it doesn’t even matter. Billions of dollars to help the world do not matter.”
The MDN logic on charity is very clear, no matter how you try to twist it: It is nobody’s – but the giver’s – business, not that “it doesn’t matter.”
MDN is correct, as usual.
by the way just look at the Americans, forgot to get rid of the other billionairs
Facts will not sway personal biases:
http://www.livescience.com/othernews/060124_political_decisions.html
MDN magic word “class.” How appropriate.
On December 2004 I gave a good part of my monthly income to charity for the victims of the tsunami, and I didn’t tell most of my friends or my family, because I most certainly didn’t do it to get some kind of recognition. I simply did it because it was the least I could do to help.
Whether we’re famous or anonymous, I think that many people among us face our conscience, and do whatever it needs to be done in order to help people in need, without expecting anything in return.
It’s very cynical to imply that each famous person who gives money to charity should publicize his good deeds, so that other people can gloat and write about it. Perhaps someone should write a computer program to help Mr. Kahney to keep track of all the times he helped other people, and publish his own charity hall of fame.
“He has also spoken out on major policy issues, for example, by opposing proposals to cut back the inheritance tax.”
Actually, this is probably an act of self-interest.
From Wikipedia:
“For 2005, an estate with a value less than $1,500,000 would not pay a federal estate tax and most likely would not have to file a federal estate tax return.”
>Fred Mertz wrote: It is no one, but the giver’s business, not “it doesn’t matter.”
Completely agreed… for life in a vaccuum.
That being said, I don’t bother to tell people how much I give to charity.
It’s a bit different for people who choose to live in the public eye. As a consumer, I’d feel much happier knowing my dollars are going to someone who is compelled to use a portion of it to do something positive in the world.
Do you still share the narrowminded view that MDN has?
>Fred Mertz wrote: It is no one, but the giver’s business, not “it doesn’t matter.”
Completely agreed… for life in a vaccuum.
That being said, I don’t bother to tell people how much I give to charity.
It’s a bit different for people who choose to live in the public eye. As a consumer, I’d feel much happier knowing my dollars are going to someone who is compelled to use a portion of it to do something positive in the world.
Do you still share the narrowminded view that MDN has?
>Fred Mertz wrote: It is no one, but the giver’s business, not “it doesn’t matter.”
Completely agreed… for life in a vaccuum.
That being said, I don’t bother to tell people how much I give to charity.
It’s a bit different for people who choose to live in the public eye. As a consumer, I’d feel much happier knowing my dollars are going to someone who is compelled to use a portion of it to do something positive in the world.
Do you still share the narrowminded view that MDN has?
>Fred Mertz wrote: It is no one, but the giver’s business, not “it doesn’t matter.”
Completely agreed… for life in a vaccuum.
That being said, I don’t bother to tell people how much I give to charity.
It’s a bit different for people who choose to live in the public eye. As a consumer, I’d feel much happier knowing my dollars are going to someone who is compelled to use a portion of it to do something positive in the world.
Do you still share the narrowminded view that MDN has?
The article read…
“For a person as private as Jobs, who shuns any publicity about his family life, this (giving privately and unannounced) seems credible. If so, however, this would make Jobs virtually unique among moguls.”
After the first sentence acknowledging that “this seems credible”, the writer is WAY out of bounds with conjecture and machinations of his own imagination. However, he wasn’t far off the mark when referring to Jobs as “virtually unique”, in all respects.
MDN: “Leander, we read about Robin Hood. We know about Robin Hood. Robin Hood could’ve been a friend of ours. Leander, Gates is no Robin Hood.”
Geez, MDN, you guys are so confused. Go back on the Prozac.
Robing Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor.
How does your Robin Hood analogy work here?
Sometimes one wonders which 13-year old is at the controls of MDN each day.
—————
MDN “But the standings were shuffled on Tuesday with Disney’s $7.4 billion acquisition of Pixar Animation — a deal that makes Jobs’ Pixar holdings alone worth some $3.7 billion.”
MDN – you guys are stoned, blatto,zonkers. Steve Jobs´ Pixar holdings were worth exactly what his Disney holdings are now worth. He did not go from having a net worth of $0 when he owned Pixar stock to $4 billion when he traded it for Disney stock. It is the same net worth.
I applaud Bill Gates for donating his money to charitible organizations. I hope it helps all those that need it.
MDN can suck PowerPC G3 chips.
I actually think that BG’s donations are genuine. By that I mean I think he really cares about what he donates to. That is not the problem with mr William H. Gates.
The problem with this article though, is that a good deed does not make a bad one go away. If I robbed a bank and gave half (or all) of my money to the red cross I might get friendly nods and slaps on the back. But I would get them in jail. The fact that BG is generous and (I think) farsighted in his donations doesn’t change the fact that he is giving away other peolpes money.
And as for making a dent in the universe, yes BG undoubtedly has made one. The question mr Kahney should be asking himself is: what kind of dent? The Soviet Union also made a very definite dent in the world, as did leaders like Josef Stalin. Was that good? There are other leaders that come to mind (but which I better not mention lest this thread derail, let me just cite Plato: “This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector”) that are also making very real but not very positive dents in the world. What would the (computing) world have looked like with a reasonable MS and a reasonable BG these last three decades? Kahney definitely implies “worse”. I’m not so sure, to put it mildly.
Bill Gates’ donations stem purly from a publicity need to “correct” the perception that he was an evil guy. Nothing more. Not that the money isn’t needed but don’t believe that he wasn’t coerced into donating.
I remember people complaining loudly that the richest man in the world had never donated a penny to charity.
It was only after the complaints that he start donating money.
He is still a pure capitalist and doesn’t’ do anything that doesn’t potntially generate a return of some sort.
Altruism isn’t in Bill Gate normal nature – it doesn’t fit into the capitalist conservative theme.
Give to charity? Shouldn’t those people be working for that money? I did!
Hank,
The IQ of the MDN Take writer is several orders above yours, friend. Don’t feel bad, MDN’s IQ and writing ability is higher than most anywhere you look.
By using the Robin Hood analogy, MDN is calling Gates a thief, but not an honorable one. MDN’s subtext in headline form: Gates not Robin Hood, just common thief.
As for the second quote you criticize MDN for writing: MDN didn’t write it, Kahney The Shark Jumper did.
The amount of money that Gates give is ridiculous next to the total amount of money he actually have.
It’s like if we give 1 penny to help to cure cancer (for exemple), and tell everybody about this wonderfull act of charity…
And everybody get abused
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I agree that Gates does SOME good things with his blood money, but that doesn’t excuse him or his company for the ways in which they acquired it in the first place.
And just because Gates publicly reports all of his donations (partly so he can get some good PR), doesn’t make him a saint and Jobs a demon. There are a lot of people doing great things for those less fortunate every day that never receive nor seek any press attention for it. How does Kahney know what Jobs donates or doesn’t donate to charity anyway?
“Of course, Jobs and his wife may be giving enormous sums of money to charity anonymously. If they are funneling cash to various causes in private, their names wouldn’t show up on any lists, regardless of the size of their gifts.
For a person as private as Jobs, who shuns any publicity about his family life, this seems credible. If so, however, this would make Jobs virtually unique among moguls. Richard Jolly, chairman of Giving USA Foundation, said not all billionaires give their money away, but a lot do, and most do not do it quietly.”
Let’s keep this in perspective…
For Bill Gates to donate $1 Billion to charity equals the equivalent of him donating about 2% of his total fortune. The other 98% he keeps for himself.
Now with that in mind, is that really saint worthy? And obviously he could afford to do much, much more to be quite frank about it. Does he deserve credit? Yes. But he certainly won’t be a candidate for sainthood anytime soon for giving up 2% of his net worth to something worthwhile.
Leander Kahney may have point.
Donations to help our society are good.
That is why I suggest that everyone who subscribes to Wired cancel their subscription and donate the refund to their favorite charity.
And of course please email Wired magazine and let them know that Leander Kahneys thought provoking editorial has started your campaign to help better our society.
Steve Jobs favorite charity is Al Gore.
Heck, he´s keeping that loser off the street. that´s something to applaud.
Judge Bork – the MDN quote: “Gates is no Robin Hood.”
So if Gates is no Robin Hood then he does not steal from the rich and give to the poor….as Robin Hood did.
MDN is saying that Gates is not a thief.
Judge Bork your IQ is the same as MDNs, low and falling fast – whoops you are MDN.
Bill Gates is a nice guy that makes crappy software. Steve Jobs is a jerk that makes great software and hardware. I would rather go bowling or fishin’ with Bill than Steve. I like Bill more than the excessive self-esteem, exaggerated dignity and pretentious behavior of Steve Jobs. But when it comes to buying a computer I would pick Apple everytime.
Gates is basically finished … since quite a while back. Think about it: “Chief Software Architect” of mass mediocrity.
His “wealth” was a problem in need of a solution. Invest in new businesses and grow the economy? Sorry, no expertise there other than screwing some little software guys or leveraging the monopoly.
But charity … well, you benefit the needy, get a tax deduction, earn recognition, respect, and maybe even banish some of the nasty smell that won’t go away. What a great idea! And the beauty is that it won’t cost much. It’s money you can’t spend on youself — it’d attract the wrong kind of attention; it’s obscenely plentiful even if mostly paper; you’d have to pay tax, and you certainly can’t “take it with you.” A foundation it is then … and the only name you’d put on such an endeavor would be … your own.
MW: “Lay” off Jobs.
I really don’t give a crap what people contribute of their own money. It’s their money – they can do whatever the hell they want to do with it. They earned their money, I earn mine. I don’t want people telling me what to do with mine, I’m not going to tell them what to do with theirs.
And considering how freakin’ liberal Steve Jobs is, I’m kind of glad I don’t hear him whining about whatever cause is en vouge this week. What the hell does Steve Jobs know about solving the world’s social problems? The guy makes iPods and cute cartoon movies for God’s sake…
No, Steve Jobs is cool because he introduces cool products and is charismatic. The guy comes out and starts preaching about how we all need to save the whales, and I’m immediately turned off…
Billy Gates is a Godless wad of snot of a man.
MDN, Judge Bork, Dave H, you guys have it right.
I bash anything pro Mac.
Some people do what they to and try to atone for its impact on the world in other ways. Some poeple do what they do and it is their contribution to the world.
BG can give away his entire fortune and might break even for how he got it and the suffering that Windows imposes on the world every day. SJ could not give away a penny and still be in balance because of the grace brought to the world by Apple.
The above is a bit harsh and single dimensional (read: cheap shot). I read somewhere that BG contributes 1% of all charitible giving in the US. I doubt that his $50B or so worth is 1% of the total worth of individuals in the US. So where the hell are the rest of us. If I were as rich as BG, I hope I would have the wit and charity to give a bunch of it away.
Macbones: The estate tax only applies to estates greater than $1.5M, which is less that 2% of the population. Most Congressmen and Senators are millionaires. Guess who the repeal of the estate tax will really benefit. Not you or me, since the estate taxes not collected will have to come from other sources, like income taxes. Once again, the cost of running the country is shifted from the very wealthy to the middle classes.
iDon’t
Thats the truth
Steve Jobs was ranked the Forbes top ten hardest CEOs to work for.
but its undeniable even to IT drones that Mac is far superior then Windoze.
Mr. Gates live in Bangladesh and give all your money away a leave computers to Apple, because it sure makes my life much easer.
I find it sad that people are so disillusioned with the business side of things, that people can’t separate the difference between microsoft the company and bill gates the man. Whether bill gates has 45 billion dollars or 3 billion dollars, the man has done amazing things.
Over the past several years, he’s given away close to 30 billion dollars of his personal fortune. While that still leaves him with more money then most could ever dream of, the amount of money that Bill and Melinda have given away if far and away the most generous amounts of money ever given in the history of the world.
The reality is he’s given a huge amount of his personal fortune and continues to give more. Well beyond the average donations that people in his billionaire bracket do (and i’m talking about percentage of donations to personal wealth. Not just dollar amounts). He doesn’t have to give that much money away.
There are so many other things to criticize when it comes to microsofts business and criticizing bill gates’ personal donations doesn’t help apple in any way. Your petty jabs at bill gates doesn’t make the mac a better platform. It doesn’t make the ipod more usable.
It’s macdailynews people. Let’s keep our eyes on the ball.
i think the real question after reading this article is really ‘How many fuckn idiots are their in the in the world?’
…and why do most of the them use windows?
Mac & PC Guy — What a maroon you are.
You actually think that giving away money is a sign of worth as a person? Are you KIDDING me?
I actually thought that most people in this day and age had realized that wealthy people like to give away money because . . . are you ready for it dipshit? . . . because they HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE THEIR TAX BURDEN!!!!!
What a f*ckin’ tool you are. You, and people like you. “Oooohh, he gives away more of his money than HIM, so HE’S a better person.” Bullshit. The people who give away the most are usually the scummiest of the bunch.
I’ll take a person like Jobs — regardless of what he gives or doesn’t give to charity, which is NONE OF MY BUSINESS –over a putrid wank like Gates anyday. Jobs actually does more for the world with the wealth and employment and economy he creates (and inspires) than Gates, who . . . who . . . oh yah, that’s right — who HAS SUCCEEDED IN BOGGING DOWN GLOBAL PROGRESS WITH HIS HORRIBLE SHIT-FILLED EXCUSE OF AN OPERATING SYSTEM!
Monopoly abusers like Gates should be seen and not heard.
Kind of like Mac & PC Guy’s brain.
Mac & PC Guy — What a maroon you are.
You actually think that giving away money is a sign of worth as a person? Are you KIDDING me?
I actually thought that most people in this day and age had realized that wealthy people like to give away money because . . . are you ready for it dipshit? . . . because they HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE THEIR TAX BURDEN!!!!!
What a f*ckin’ tool you are. You, and people like you. “Oooohh, he gives away more of his money than HIM, so HE’S a better person.” Bullshit. The people who give away the most are usually the scummiest of the bunch.
I’ll take a person like Jobs — regardless of what he gives or doesn’t give to charity, which is NONE OF MY BUSINESS –over a putrid wank like Gates anyday. Jobs actually does more for the world with the wealth and employment and economy he creates (and inspires) than Gates, who . . . who . . . oh yah, that’s right — who HAS SUCCEEDED IN BOGGING DOWN GLOBAL PROGRESS WITH HIS HORRIBLE SHIT-FILLED EXCUSE OF AN OPERATING SYSTEM!
Monopoly abusers like Gates should be seen and not heard.
Kind of like Mac & PC Guy’s brain.
Mac & PC Guy — What a maroon you are.
You actually think that giving away money is a sign of worth as a person? Are you KIDDING me?
I actually thought that most people in this day and age had realized that wealthy people like to give away money because . . . are you ready for it dipshit? . . . because they HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE THEIR TAX BURDEN!!!!!
What a f*ckin’ tool you are. You, and people like you. “Oooohh, he gives away more of his money than HIM, so HE’S a better person.” Bullshit. The people who give away the most are usually the scummiest of the bunch.
I’ll take a person like Jobs — regardless of what he gives or doesn’t give to charity, which is NONE OF MY BUSINESS –over a putrid wank like Gates anyday. Jobs actually does more for the world with the wealth and employment and economy he creates (and inspires) than Gates, who . . . who . . . oh yah, that’s right — who HAS SUCCEEDED IN BOGGING DOWN GLOBAL PROGRESS WITH HIS HORRIBLE SHIT-FILLED EXCUSE OF AN OPERATING SYSTEM!
Monopoly abusers like Gates should be seen and not heard.
Kind of like Mac & PC Guy’s brain.
Mac & PC Guy — What a maroon you are.
You actually think that giving away money is a sign of worth as a person? Are you KIDDING me?
I actually thought that most people in this day and age had realized that wealthy people like to give away money because . . . are you ready for it dipshit? . . . because they HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE THEIR TAX BURDEN!!!!!
What a f*ckin’ tool you are. You, and people like you. “Oooohh, he gives away more of his money than HIM, so HE’S a better person.” Bullshit. The people who give away the most are usually the scummiest of the bunch.
I’ll take a person like Jobs — regardless of what he gives or doesn’t give to charity, which is NONE OF MY BUSINESS –over a putrid wank like Gates anyday. Jobs actually does more for the world with the wealth and employment and economy he creates (and inspires) than Gates, who . . . who . . . oh yah, that’s right — who HAS SUCCEEDED IN BOGGING DOWN GLOBAL PROGRESS WITH HIS HORRIBLE SHIT-FILLED EXCUSE OF AN OPERATING SYSTEM!
Monopoly abusers like Gates should be seen and not heard.
Kind of like Mac & PC Guy’s brain.
It is sad that so many people in this forum are blind to what is really important and how they let that ignorance cloud their thinking and their opinions. It’s no wonder Mac users are considered a cult.
Mac & PC Guy’s Brain,
Did you know that you sound like a 5 year old?
Charity is definitely nobodies business except the givers and receivers.
But sentimentally I’m right with MDN on this one.
We are really stupid people if we believe this liberal garbage by Kahney. Who cares who gives more and who does not?
Gates is really not trying to stop this inheritance tax cuts. It just sounds good to the flaming liberals. Most wealthy people in this country have work arounds in place so they don’t pay this death tax.
I know many small mom and pop business and family farms that have gone belly up because of this liberal death tax. If anything Gates would be a bully by close the American Family Farm with keeping the death tax.
The best thing we can do to help the poor is to open up real honest capitalism and free trade everywhere. If you look at where the really poor people are in the world, they have dictators, no free trade and tyrants as leaders in their country.
I guess the way I see it both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are doing a great job creating jobs and expanding capitalism. Liberals hate the “Capitalism” word but like it or not it works!
wmd
Balzac once said, “Behind every great fortune lies a great crime.” The very fact that the world can support billionaires is a crime given the number of people who starve each day.
I’m not going to fault Bill Gates for his generosity. It’s far more important than looking good on stage. As for Steve Jobs, maybe he’s just as generous in a less overt way. Honestly though, I doubt anyone could keep hundred million dollar donations secret.
There are two memes here. First that Gates is good because he uses his money and name for good causes. Jobs is bad because WE DON’T KNOW that he gives anything to help the “less fortunate.” This assumes that Steve doesn’t give. It’s possible. But for someone who has expressed, in many fora (that plural for forum), that he believes in Karma, it is unlikely that he is that selfish. This is just a provocative article because he needed to get something to his editor.
The second meme, which I find much more offensive, is the belief that those who are successful don’t deserve to use their success any way they choose. This jealousy is what fuels those who want to tax the successful out of existance because “it’s not fair” that they are rich. If Bill or Steve give away all they earn or keep all they earn it is fine by me. They should be the ONLY ones who decide that.
Gates is like Robin Hood, takes from the intellectually rich and then gives some to the poor (enough for a good tax break no doubt)
But please don’t let him dress in tights when in public!
The real question is, what has Kahney done with his money since he is in the wallet of Jobs? People can be so critical but never look in the mirror. I bet I will never see his name on any list for donating anything.
The problem with the article is that the author doesn’t KNOW how much Jobs contributes to charity, so based on what he KNOWS, Jobs is a greedy tightwad. What kind of logic is that?
Every opinion is entitled to an @$$hol3 Kahney is it.
So people are getting in a bother because *they don’t know* what Jobs does with his money? Wait, isn’t that just saying that they’re freaking out *because* they’re ignorant? How do you prove a negative? How do you *prove* that Jobs doesn’t contribute based on one’s own ignorance? It’s patently ridiculous.
How much Gates gives is not my concern. He does seem to be following the path trod by many other philanthropists, and if so, he will be remembered for his generosity long after Microsoft, Inc. is dead and gone. He seems to have changed his focus and that may not be such a bad way to look at it, guys.
Rob Said
“Let’s keep this in perspective…
For Bill Gates to donate $1 Billion to charity equals the equivalent of him donating about 2% of his total fortune. The other 98% he keeps for himself.
Now with that in mind, is that really saint worthy? And obviously he could afford to do much, much more to be quite frank about it. Does he deserve credit? Yes. But he certainly won’t be a candidate for sainthood anytime soon for giving up 2% of his net worth to something worthwhile.”
(this is a question, not a statement of my opinion as fact)
Just had a thought, most charitable foundations make investments that give returns on gains in stock price and etc. If Bill put 1B into the foundation (pulling $$amount out of the air for illustration) The foundation invested the $$, and used the return on investment to fund those charitable contributions. Bill puts down a one time amount, (the small 2%) and gets an entire lifetime of accoloades and recognition without EVER having to give anothern cent? Is that the way the Gates foundation works? If so his ‘personal’ contribution certainly isn’t continuous and ongoing
Does anyone know if this is the case?
IIRC, Gate’s gift giving coincided with the Federal monopoly trials. He needed some good PR. He and his wife seem to have kept it up, which is good, and is still good PR. He’s still pursuing monopolistic actions here and in Europe.
Steve won’t tell you (or “journalists”) what he’s introducing at the next “One More Thing” press conference. Why should he tell you what he spends his money on?
Leander says “It’s shameful.” Tell me Leander, what percentage of your wealth goes to charities? Who made you the charity police? Why are YOU jealous of Steve’s success?
This is a pure Swift-Boating exercise. Start with no facts, make shit up and tear down a successful person.
Further, we should also judge Gates on his ulterior motives, which of course would be difficult to pinpoint. We may be surprised to find his attention-seeking motives ultimately are to puff him up even more than he is. As well, I believe Steve Jobs’ wife is active in ways Steve is not and she seems to have reasonable, not self-seeking directives.
Think Andrew Carnegie.
He is remembered today for Carnegie Hall and all the libraries he built.However once you learn what he did to get those millions, his shine dulls to a sickly brown. Same applies to the Rockefellers, the Kennedys, Astors and so on with varying results.
Gates, while worthy of praise for his charities is not innocent. While hardly a scumbag on the scale of Carnegie and Rockefeller he is no saint.
You people are idiots. Bill Gates has given more than $29 billion to charitable causes. He’s almost single-handedly attacking polio in India. He’s very clearly doing a lot of good for the world. And for MDN to pretend that’s not significant, or any different than was Rockefelller and others did more than a century ago is to show just how out of touch with reality they truly are.
Sure Bill Gates did a lot of bad things, but he was only reflecting the generation he grew up in. It’s not more evil than most other business people over the past 30 years. He’s actually pretty typical. Just luckier than they are.
Steve Jobs has always been a person who prefers privacy. And that’s cool. And the author is completely out of line to attack him without evidence. And to mention Jobs might be better if he is being private about his donations is a good thing – except he then ignores his own statement and goes on to pronounce as fact that Jobs is a scumbag.
The author is wrong about Jobs, he’s right about Gates, and MDN’s bigotry related to all things Microsoft makes them just as hypocritical as the author.
How come nobody ever asks the obvious question of the ultra wealthy?
Would all those people you’re giving charity to needed it if you hadn’t sucked $45,000,000,000 out of the economy for your own selfish interests? Just how much money do you need?
P.S. I have it on good authority he considers charity to be communism. If there were no tax breaks for charity, there would be no Gates Foundation.
Oh, and what’s with M$ Small Business Server Ad?
My sympathies to “Mother Theresa”… the one in the little pointy chapeau, sitting in the corner… that’s you. Bill Gates never gave a dime to anything prior to marrying Melinda. If any credit is to be given, she is the deserving party.
After reading these comments, we truly are a worthless society.
Someone please press the button.
Check out the dates of his giving. History and all that.
His giving stems from two issues: the chiding of bridge pal, Warren Buffet, to become philanthropic and to offset negative perception at the beginning of Microsoft’s Justice Department woes.
Remember the old commercials of Bill and Steve in cardigans in a schoolroom, talking about how bright the future was with Microsoft was? Came out at the same time.
Also, not to totally denigrate the use of the Foundation’s wealth in towards world health issues (with much PR and coverage), there is also a lot of personal and Foundation wealth that is spent in areas of the world and programs that only further Microsoft’s stranglehold on key markets. (See India, educational grants, etc.)
KATE,
Please tell me how an iPod or a Mac running OSX helps someone starving in the streets of India, or that is dieing or crippled from Polio?
While we don’t know what Steve is or isn’t contributing, and it isn’t any of our business, I can assure you that when a mother watches her child starve to death she isn’t thankfully to at least have iTunes. You dumbass.
Oh no! Somebody said something bad about Steve Jobs! Flame away, lemmings!
This is NOT a zero-sum game. Kahney paints Bill as all-good, and Steve as all-bad in the charity game.
Let’s be fair. Steve hasn’t been bloody Bill Gates-rich for very long. He makes $1 a year from Apple. His stock, $800M worth won’t vest until later this year. He can’t give away what he doesn’t have. As for his $3.7B of Pixar/Disney stock, is it “restricted” so he can’t sell in the public market? Many founders have restrictions on their shares. Plus, Pixar is barely 10 years old, and hasn’t been public for a decade yet. Steve’s fortune is much more recent than Bill’s. Steve is still building his fortune, while Bill is already in the phase of disbursement, as MS is not getting bigger. I mean, Bill is essentially retired, isn’t he, as Chief Software Architect, doesn’t he just give speeches, and write checks?
In 10 years, if Steve hasn’t given any donations to charity, I’d be a little surprised, but to compare Steve to Bill at this stage of their productive lives is unfair.
Ken,
So you think Steve only makes a dollar a year huh? Ever try to pay your mortgage and electrics on just a dollar. Oh I know, maybe Steve make his wife work, just until the stock vests.
Again I don’t know or care what Steve contributes, but why is everyone else here, who also don’t know, jumping to his defense?
MW/KNEW- Even if we “knew” what Steve is worth, it’s still none of our business.
It’s a good idea for Gates to give much to education…then Apple can follow through with Apple hardware when the PCs fail.
Cornell just got $25 million from Gates
So let’s hope for the best
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The philanthopy of American capitalists is not emulated in all parts of the world. It would be wise to appreciate and encourage this activity. Bill Gates does contribute to very worthwhile causes with donations that rival those provided by nations, but without the political baggage. Such acts are commendable and should be encouraged. The social prestige that results encourages others to do the same.
J U D G E N O T OR Y O U W I L L B E J U D G E D ! ! ! !
First, I was reluctant to post just because so many others have already commented on the issue. But when I started to read the poison spewing from the mouths of people on BOTH sides I had to come in….
Commments on comments:
[1] “SJ is the embodiment of how an individual can use the power of the market for positive ends.”
*** I can’t believe I am even giving any credibility to this statement by responding to it, BUT, I am sorry to say Kate that computers are not going to save the world. That statement came straight out of Jones Town.
[2] “P.S. I have it on good authority he (ED: Bill Gates) considers charity to be communism…..”
*** Your “good authority” better get logical. If you are CHOOSING to give money away that is not communism.
[3] “After reading these comments, we truly are a worthless society.
Someone please press the button.”
*** Sadly, I must agree, and the responses by the Mac community to this article are absolutely child-like. It’s no wonder Windows users call us snobs!
NEXT PLANET PLEASE………
Jerry T insulted KATE with
“KATE,
Please tell me how an iPod or a Mac running OSX helps someone starving in the streets of India, or that is dieing or crippled from Polio?
While we don’t know what Steve is or isn’t contributing, and it isn’t any of our business, I can assure you that when a mother watches her child starve to death she isn’t thankfully to at least have iTunes. You dumbass.”
Well Jerry, If you want to get really technical, the human genome mapping project is done on mac server clusters, and the results are hauled around on iPods….. Go ahead, tell us all that the mapping project research doesn’t make a difference..
Jerry T — don’t be a f-cking idiot. Generating PROFITS for the company you run in a capitalist system benefits almost EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!
Creating wealth, employing people, growing a company so that it’s products and services benefit mankind — ohhh, yaah, such “terrible, terrible” things these are. Asswipe.
Let’s compare that to “charity”. Most of which is sucked up by overhead and salaries and travel junkets and graft . . . how much REALLY does any good? Except, of course, to make the “giver” feel better about himself. That’s all Gates is f-cking doing, the scumbag. That, and assuaging the Feds about the monopoly abuse while bettering his tax debt bottom line.
Oh, and “Mother Theresa” up there- shut the hell up from the grave. You were one of the biggest scumbags when you were alive, filling the church’s coffers while hardly any of the millions upon millions of dollars given to you actually reached the poor at all! Calcutta still poor as dirt, should have some of the best clinics in existence with all the mullah you pocketed. Read Christopher Hitchens reports for the real scoop.
Dirtbag.
Darknite,
I dig what you are saying, but Kate wasn’t talking about the “genome” project. She was talking about “aesthetically-pleasing products”. Read the post I’m referring to before you flame me bad boy.
So, as I stated, the starving in Calcutta don’t give a shit about iPods. They don’t help them one bit! They wouldn’t know what a Powerbook was, even if you served a Curry on it.
Is that your mom calling, I thought so.
Open,
Who said profits were bad? I don’t care about Steve’s profits, his portfolio or how much he does or does not give to charity. Read what I wrote.
The premise of my argument is that it’s none of our business who gives what…but why do so many people jump to Steve’s support? None of you know what kind of guy he is. You don’t know what he does with his money. Why blindly support him?
And like you said in your rebuttal to me, Calcutta is still dirt poor. So I guess those two iPods I bought didn’t help any of the poor after all. Dumbass.
Also, I never said you should give your money to charities. And you don’t know that Gates is a scumbag. I’m sure you don’t have enough money to even get around him and find out. Just like you don’t know Steve is a great guy, so stop sucking at his “teet”.
There’s a short story called “The Wave”, you people should read it.
From Leander’s own magazine, the Microsoft Anti-trust Timeline:
http://www.wired.com/news/antitrust/0,1551,35212,00.html
March 10, 1999: A leaked Microsoft memo blames the press for focusing on Bill Gates rather than the facts of the trial.
From The Gates Foundation About Us page:
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/AboutUs/
Bill and Melinda Gates believe every life has equal value. In 2000, they created the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to help reduce inequities in four primary areas.
Yes, Gate’s contributions are doing alot of good for lots of people. And Yes, Gates contributions were positive PR as Judge Jackson was considering the break-up of Microsoft.
“The charity that hastens to proclaim its good deeds, ceases to be charity, and is only pride and ostentation.” — William Hutton
Kahney is on crack…
No other way ro explain it!
MaWo: ‘really’. As in, “Yes, he really is.”