PC Magazine’s Jim Louderback looks at “discount MP3 players.” Of Apple’s The iPod shuffle, Louderback explains that it’s “the only player with a built-in rechargeable battery; the others use double-A or triple-A disposables. And… It’s tops in sound quality of all the music players we’ve tested at PC Magazine Labs.”
Louderback, “Let’s face it. When it comes to music, style counts for a lot. Apple’s line of music players can layer a patina of hip onto the most fogyish of 50-year-olds. Buying for a teen? Seeking to recapture that lost youth? Pick up the iPod shuffle. Want more storage for less with no sticky DRM issues, and a display as well? Target the Memorex MMP3682 instead.”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: Apple’s iPod shuffle has no “sticky DRM issues.” The iPod shuffle plays MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, AAC (8 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Music Store, M4A, M4B, M4P), Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4) and WAV formats. Apple’s iTunes Music Store sells songs with DRM, like any WMA-based also-ran online outfit with two big differences: Apple’s iTunes is the only online music service that works for Mac and Windows users and the DRM is the least restrictive or “sticky.” It’s also the most dominant with over 80% market share according to Nielsen/SoundScan. There’s absolutely no need to subject yourself or your loved ones to a Memorex MMP3682 (catchy name, huh?) to avoid “sticky DRM issues.”
This isn’t a hard thing to understand, especially for someone with Louderback’s experience. So, what’s going on here? What does Louderback mean by “sticky DRM issues?” If you’re going to impugn a product in your so-called “review,” please explain at least semi-clearly what the heck you’re writing about.
Lance Ulanoff, Executive Editor of PC Magazine, oversees all strategic, editorial, and production activities related to the magazine’s Web site:
Jim Louderback, Ziff Davis Media, Editor-In-Chief for Internet properties:
unbelievable! Hell is cooling down!
Not that this is clear from the article, but he may be referring to the recent problem many people had with their Shuffles not playing songs downloaded from iTMS.
has a few problems playing songs from iTMS too, I hear…
http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@681.TAXNaQAtT8Q.1@.68b2c084
Actually… iTMS has the sticky DRM issues. To which the iPod is intimately tied to via iTunes. So actually, the iPod line is one big sticky DRM issue.
For many fans, it’s a non-issue at the moment.
For me, I refuse to be play the part of enabler and allow Apple to lock me into buying nothing but their warez.
“Apple the Master” is not for me – it may be for many – but not for me.
Mac & PC Guy
– iPod user… but not iTMS
Actually… iTMS has the sticky DRM issues. To which the iPod is intimately tied to via iTunes. So actually, the iPod line is one big sticky DRM issue.
For many fans, it’s a non-issue at the moment.
For me, I refuse to be play the part of enabler and allow Apple to lock me into buying nothing but their warez.
“Apple the Master” is not for me – it may be for many – but not for me.
Mac & PC Guy
– iPod user… but not iTMS
Actually… iTMS has the sticky DRM issues. To which the iPod is intimately tied to via iTunes. So actually, the iPod line is one big sticky DRM issue.
For many fans, it’s a non-issue at the moment.
For me, I refuse to be play the part of enabler and allow Apple to lock me into buying nothing but their warez.
“Apple the Master” is not for me – it may be for many – but not for me.
Mac & PC Guy
– iPod user… but not iTMS
Lance Ulanoff is a veteran AppleHater. Why would he ‘correct’ Louderback?
Mac and PC guy –
Since you seem relatively intelligent (just uneducated)…
Buy a song from iTunes. Burn onto a CD. Rerip to your hearts content.
How the hell do you think this means you are an “enabler” and locked into Apple “warez”?
Just another cluess idiot spreading false information.
To Mac & PC Guy –
Um – OK – that’s fair. But, I think the question at hand is whether one DRM is any better or worse than the other. Since you don’t use either microsoft’s or apple’s DRM you don’t really need to worry about it –
But, does that mean that the iPod has some ‘sticky DRM issue’ that the other players do not have?
MPCG: “For me, I refuse to be play the part of enabler and allow Apple to lock me into buying nothing but their warez.”
However, being locked into Word, Excel, IE is fine. No conflict in your soul. Anyway, I guess you prefer that M$ be the Master – as they should be.
Who cares. In the 21st Century, in the technology world, Apple wins hands down and everyone is spitting nails over it. The best player. The icon. The best OS. The best looking products. Chic. Sassy. Impressive. And just plain cool.
You can compete by copying their products. You can sue them to get some of their money. You can poo poo them by writing negative press. But it doesn’t matter. It’s come full circle. APPLE HAS WON!
“Not that this is clear from the article, but he may be referring to the recent problem many people had with their Shuffles not playing songs downloaded from iTMS.”
This happens from time to time and is usually easily fixed by updating the software on the iPod in question.
Louderback is a spasmo. Even still, he should haven gotten this right.
One person said to me once “when is Apple gonna get out of the proprietary business with iTunes.?”
My reply was “oh, and Windows Media ISNT proprietary?”
He quickly shut up.
MW ‘friends’ as in, friends don’t let friends do Windows.
DreamTheEndless & MDN:
Nothing’s changed — it’s still Apple’s problem. MS is willing to let iPod play tracks w/ their DRM. Apple refuses. Other players would be happy to play songs downloaded from iTMS with the FairPlay DRM, but Apple refuses.
Someone’s not playing nice with others, and in this particular case, it’s Apple. They’re the problem, not a solution.
“For me, I refuse to be play the part of enabler and allow Apple to lock me into buying nothing but their warez.”
It’s amazing to me this false sense of choice that Windows users display. They have no idea of how played they are by Microsoft.
Microsofts new ad campaign for Vista (blech) should be:
“Microsoft Vista: All your life are belong to us”
>DreamTheEndless wrote: Um – OK – that’s fair….But, does that mean that the iPod has some ‘sticky DRM issue’ that the other players do not have?
You’re absolutely right. To me, DRM is a one big mess. Companies are using it as a lock on customers to limit choice, fair use, and such. MS is doing it, Real is doing it, but Apple is the big leader with a extraordinary market share in downloads and hardware sales.
So yep, the more fair thing to say is… DRM/DMCA is a big hot and sticky mess.
BTW: Thanks for you comment. It’s nice that some here can disagree or comment on others thoughts without getting ugly. Have a great day!
—
>Wha…!? wrote: However, being locked into Word, Excel, IE is fine. Anyway, I guess you prefer that M$ be the Master – as they should be.
I do use MS Office. It lets me get an amazing amount of work done. I use it mostly on my Macs – I own several and my office runs Macs almost exclusively. I use FCP/LiveType/Motion/Compressor/etc, Media100, and a bunch of other stuff on Macs.
Are you still going to stick with the “you’re locked in to using Word and Excel” line of thinking?
Hmmm… there are Wordperfect, NeoOffice, Pages, etc… so are you really locked in? And besides, what does the Word/Excel have to do with DRM problems?
>Chris wrote: Since you seem relatively intelligent (just uneducated)…Buy a song from iTunes. Burn onto a CD. Rerip to your hearts content.
What a great way to counter-argue… open with an insult.
Anyway… isn’t that prohibited in the license agreement? I know, I know… we Mac users are honest and all that… but c’mon that’s a big hassle.
Download $1000 of songs from iTMS and what player will you buy in 2 years? I guarantee you will stick to iPod, like it or not!
As much as I love and use my iPod daily, I don’t want to get locked into Apple and only Apple. Every iTMS download is a $1.00 lock into buying an Apple in the future. And well… that’s just plain wrong to me.
Either open the iTMS/iPod/DRM license, or supply some sort of transition program to allow users to bring songs with them without having to resort to the hack/illegal burn-a-cd-and-rerip-to-your-hearts-content mechanism to get fair user out of your purchase.
Insults aside, have a great day just the same.
>DreamTheEndless wrote: Um – OK – that’s fair….But, does that mean that the iPod has some ‘sticky DRM issue’ that the other players do not have?
You’re absolutely right. To me, DRM is a one big mess. Companies are using it as a lock on customers to limit choice, fair use, and such. MS is doing it, Real is doing it, but Apple is the big leader with a extraordinary market share in downloads and hardware sales.
So yep, the more fair thing to say is… DRM/DMCA is a big hot and sticky mess.
BTW: Thanks for you comment. It’s nice that some here can disagree or comment on others thoughts without getting ugly. Have a great day!
—
>Wha…!? wrote: However, being locked into Word, Excel, IE is fine. Anyway, I guess you prefer that M$ be the Master – as they should be.
I do use MS Office. It lets me get an amazing amount of work done. I use it mostly on my Macs – I own several and my office runs Macs almost exclusively. I use FCP/LiveType/Motion/Compressor/etc, Media100, and a bunch of other stuff on Macs.
Are you still going to stick with the “you’re locked in to using Word and Excel” line of thinking?
Hmmm… there are Wordperfect, NeoOffice, Pages, etc… so are you really locked in? And besides, what does the Word/Excel have to do with DRM problems?
>Chris wrote: Since you seem relatively intelligent (just uneducated)…Buy a song from iTunes. Burn onto a CD. Rerip to your hearts content.
What a great way to counter-argue… open with an insult.
Anyway… isn’t that prohibited in the license agreement? I know, I know… we Mac users are honest and all that… but c’mon that’s a big hassle.
Download $1000 of songs from iTMS and what player will you buy in 2 years? I guarantee you will stick to iPod, like it or not!
As much as I love and use my iPod daily, I don’t want to get locked into Apple and only Apple. Every iTMS download is a $1.00 lock into buying an Apple in the future. And well… that’s just plain wrong to me.
Either open the iTMS/iPod/DRM license, or supply some sort of transition program to allow users to bring songs with them without having to resort to the hack/illegal burn-a-cd-and-rerip-to-your-hearts-content mechanism to get fair user out of your purchase.
Insults aside, have a great day just the same.
>DreamTheEndless wrote: Um – OK – that’s fair….But, does that mean that the iPod has some ‘sticky DRM issue’ that the other players do not have?
You’re absolutely right. To me, DRM is a one big mess. Companies are using it as a lock on customers to limit choice, fair use, and such. MS is doing it, Real is doing it, but Apple is the big leader with a extraordinary market share in downloads and hardware sales.
So yep, the more fair thing to say is… DRM/DMCA is a big hot and sticky mess.
BTW: Thanks for you comment. It’s nice that some here can disagree or comment on others thoughts without getting ugly. Have a great day!
—
>Wha…!? wrote: However, being locked into Word, Excel, IE is fine. Anyway, I guess you prefer that M$ be the Master – as they should be.
I do use MS Office. It lets me get an amazing amount of work done. I use it mostly on my Macs – I own several and my office runs Macs almost exclusively. I use FCP/LiveType/Motion/Compressor/etc, Media100, and a bunch of other stuff on Macs.
Are you still going to stick with the “you’re locked in to using Word and Excel” line of thinking?
Hmmm… there are Wordperfect, NeoOffice, Pages, etc… so are you really locked in? And besides, what does the Word/Excel have to do with DRM problems?
>Chris wrote: Since you seem relatively intelligent (just uneducated)…Buy a song from iTunes. Burn onto a CD. Rerip to your hearts content.
What a great way to counter-argue… open with an insult.
Anyway… isn’t that prohibited in the license agreement? I know, I know… we Mac users are honest and all that… but c’mon that’s a big hassle.
Download $1000 of songs from iTMS and what player will you buy in 2 years? I guarantee you will stick to iPod, like it or not!
As much as I love and use my iPod daily, I don’t want to get locked into Apple and only Apple. Every iTMS download is a $1.00 lock into buying an Apple in the future. And well… that’s just plain wrong to me.
Either open the iTMS/iPod/DRM license, or supply some sort of transition program to allow users to bring songs with them without having to resort to the hack/illegal burn-a-cd-and-rerip-to-your-hearts-content mechanism to get fair user out of your purchase.
Insults aside, have a great day just the same.
> hammer: It’s amazing to me this false sense of choice that Windows users display.
If you’ve read any of my posts in the past (I even mention it in this current thread)… I use mainly Macs. What were you saying about false sense of choice again of Windows users?
As a Mac user, I see that the Windows platform allows for way more choice. There are more than a handfull of items I see in the Windows world that I’d like to see available on the Mac…
But since we’re all about making fair commentary here on MDN, there are several things on Mac I’d like to use on Windows.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
> hammer: It’s amazing to me this false sense of choice that Windows users display.
If you’ve read any of my posts in the past (I even mention it in this current thread)… I use mainly Macs. What were you saying about false sense of choice again of Windows users?
As a Mac user, I see that the Windows platform allows for way more choice. There are more than a handfull of items I see in the Windows world that I’d like to see available on the Mac…
But since we’re all about making fair commentary here on MDN, there are several things on Mac I’d like to use on Windows.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
> hammer: It’s amazing to me this false sense of choice that Windows users display.
If you’ve read any of my posts in the past (I even mention it in this current thread)… I use mainly Macs. What were you saying about false sense of choice again of Windows users?
As a Mac user, I see that the Windows platform allows for way more choice. There are more than a handfull of items I see in the Windows world that I’d like to see available on the Mac…
But since we’re all about making fair commentary here on MDN, there are several things on Mac I’d like to use on Windows.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
Mac & PC Guy,
I refuse to be trapped into a subscription based DRM.
Also, the iTMS is one of the only, if not the only, music store which works on both Mac and PC. And therefore I believe that instantly makes it a more open, flexible system. Unless someone is out to steal music and distribute it, I’ve never had a problem with the iTMS DRM. It allows me to do everything I want.
Why iTunes?
I use iTunes to manage my music and iTMS to listen to 30 sec clips. Okay, I’ve also downloaded over 600 legal songs. I have no problem supporting the artists and Apple for that matter. I now have over 600 songs that I WANT to listen to. I’ve spent somewhere around $500 over the last year on iTMS (several “buy CD”). Let’s see $500/$10 is 50 CDs I could have bought elsewhere($10 CDs is being generous). Off those, I would have acquired, at the most, 250 songs I would have really listen to (5 songs per CD, generous again). True, I have to use an iPod (or CD’s) to listen to my iTMS music. Then again, no company has tempted me to ebay my iPod.
Why not Napster?
Sure, I could have paid Napster $180 for the last year (wait, they haven’t had unlimited music that long). With Napster, I stop paying and my music is gone? Talk about being locked into buying someone’s warez, forever. Oh yeah, let me burn a CD to play in my car so I don’t have to use a low quality FM transmitter. What? I can’t.
Just my take, I may stand alone.
Mac & PC Guy,
I refuse to be trapped into a subscription based DRM.
Also, the iTMS is one of the only, if not the only, music store which works on both Mac and PC. And therefore I believe that instantly makes it a more open, flexible system. Unless someone is out to steal music and distribute it, I’ve never had a problem with the iTMS DRM. It allows me to do everything I want.
Why iTunes?
I use iTunes to manage my music and iTMS to listen to 30 sec clips. Okay, I’ve also downloaded over 600 legal songs. I have no problem supporting the artists and Apple for that matter. I now have over 600 songs that I WANT to listen to. I’ve spent somewhere around $500 over the last year on iTMS (several “buy CD”). Let’s see $500/$10 is 50 CDs I could have bought elsewhere($10 CDs is being generous). Off those, I would have acquired, at the most, 250 songs I would have really listen to (5 songs per CD, generous again). True, I have to use an iPod (or CD’s) to listen to my iTMS music. Then again, no company has tempted me to ebay my iPod.
Why not Napster?
Sure, I could have paid Napster $180 for the last year (wait, they haven’t had unlimited music that long). With Napster, I stop paying and my music is gone? Talk about being locked into buying someone’s warez, forever. Oh yeah, let me burn a CD to play in my car so I don’t have to use a low quality FM transmitter. What? I can’t.
Just my take, I may stand alone.
Mac & PC Guy,
I refuse to be trapped into a subscription based DRM.
Also, the iTMS is one of the only, if not the only, music store which works on both Mac and PC. And therefore I believe that instantly makes it a more open, flexible system. Unless someone is out to steal music and distribute it, I’ve never had a problem with the iTMS DRM. It allows me to do everything I want.
Why iTunes?
I use iTunes to manage my music and iTMS to listen to 30 sec clips. Okay, I’ve also downloaded over 600 legal songs. I have no problem supporting the artists and Apple for that matter. I now have over 600 songs that I WANT to listen to. I’ve spent somewhere around $500 over the last year on iTMS (several “buy CD”). Let’s see $500/$10 is 50 CDs I could have bought elsewhere($10 CDs is being generous). Off those, I would have acquired, at the most, 250 songs I would have really listen to (5 songs per CD, generous again). True, I have to use an iPod (or CD’s) to listen to my iTMS music. Then again, no company has tempted me to ebay my iPod.
Why not Napster?
Sure, I could have paid Napster $180 for the last year (wait, they haven’t had unlimited music that long). With Napster, I stop paying and my music is gone? Talk about being locked into buying someone’s warez, forever. Oh yeah, let me burn a CD to play in my car so I don’t have to use a low quality FM transmitter. What? I can’t.
Just my take, I may stand alone.
>PC Apologist wrote: MS is willing to let iPod play tracks w/ their DRM. Apple refuses. Other players would be happy to play songs downloaded from iTMS with the FairPlay DRM, but Apple refuses…Someone’s not playing nice with others, and in this particular case, it’s Apple. They’re the problem, not a solution.
Hmmmm… seems like you’re trying to confuse the issue with facts, thus you are a troll.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”raspberry” style=”border:0;” />
Isn’t it amazing how this is never discussed?
Great point, PC Apologist!
>PC Apologist wrote: MS is willing to let iPod play tracks w/ their DRM. Apple refuses. Other players would be happy to play songs downloaded from iTMS with the FairPlay DRM, but Apple refuses…Someone’s not playing nice with others, and in this particular case, it’s Apple. They’re the problem, not a solution.
Hmmmm… seems like you’re trying to confuse the issue with facts, thus you are a troll.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”raspberry” style=”border:0;” />
Isn’t it amazing how this is never discussed?
Great point, PC Apologist!
>PC Apologist wrote: MS is willing to let iPod play tracks w/ their DRM. Apple refuses. Other players would be happy to play songs downloaded from iTMS with the FairPlay DRM, but Apple refuses…Someone’s not playing nice with others, and in this particular case, it’s Apple. They’re the problem, not a solution.
Hmmmm… seems like you’re trying to confuse the issue with facts, thus you are a troll.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”raspberry” style=”border:0;” />
Isn’t it amazing how this is never discussed?
Great point, PC Apologist!
Mac-PC Guy, there’s nothing illegal about burning a CD of downloaded music (which you should do anyway to protect your investment) and then ripping to MP3. It’s even easier to use Wiretap Pro, and RIP to MP3 while playing the music in iTunes.
I don’t want to get locked into Apple and only Apple.
You’d rather get locked into Microsuck?
Do you do much with computers? I notice you don’t use HTML tags.
I have read articles before from Louderback that were sheer nonsense. This is a mild example.
MS is willing to let iPod play tracks w/ their DRM. Apple refuses.
Who wants crappy WMA files? How would it benefit ITMS?
Other players would be happy to play songs downloaded from iTMS with the FairPlay DRM, but Apple refuses.
I’m sure they would, and Michael Dell would be happy to sell Dells with OS X. Anybody who is too retarded to get around the DRM so as to load music into their non-iPods doesn’t get my sympathy.
MPCG: “there are Wordperfect, NeoOffice, Pages, etc…”
Does the ‘real business world’ use these products? Or do they default to Office?
Yes, I can use these Apps, but If I intend to do business with others, what becomes my ONE choice?
–
MPCG: “what does the Word/Excel have to do with DRM problems?”
“For me, I refuse to be play the part of enabler and allow Apple to lock me into buying nothing but their warez.”
“‘Apple the Master’ is not for me – it may be for many – but not for me.”
You refuse to be locked-in. So, why is Apple’s ‘lock-in’ worse than MS’s?
Oh, I forgot, I ‘can’ use WP, NeoO, Pages. Whatever!
I’ll gladly take the challenge of using WMP exclusively for one month if you use WordPerfect exclusively during the same period.
Too sticky for you? You’ve got ‘real’ work that needs to be done? DRM lock-in ISN’T the same as media lock-in?
What of Janus?
>Wha…!?:
What are you talking about? You bring up Excel/Word… YOU bring it up.
And so I respond… and then you argue what seems to be the opposite of your original post.
Are you just trying to argumentative or merely just not making sense?
>Wha…!?:
What are you talking about? You bring up Excel/Word… YOU bring it up.
And so I respond… and then you argue what seems to be the opposite of your original post.
Are you just trying to argumentative or merely just not making sense?
>Wha…!?:
What are you talking about? You bring up Excel/Word… YOU bring it up.
And so I respond… and then you argue what seems to be the opposite of your original post.
Are you just trying to argumentative or merely just not making sense?
Many console gamers would love to see exclusive titles put on their favorite game system. I don’t see Nintendo handing over the latest Mario to Sony or Microsoft. This type of business practice is not new. I don’t expect Apple to allow other PMPs to play music from the iTMS. I will never be able to play my PS1 or PS2 games on an xBox, short of a merger. I’ve spent a lot more money on games than I’ll ever spend on music. Does this mean I’ll always buy Sony Playstations? No. I own an XBOX, PS2 and a Gamecube. Which is very common in today’s game console market. So go buy other PMPs if you want other DRM options. Console gamers quit whining years ago.
Oh for those whom this applies, quit stealing. I know many of you are refering to what you consider legally backing up your music. iTunes makes it really easy to burn all your music to a DATA CD or DVD. This is sufficent, as are all it’s DRM stipulations. If you don’t think so, state your case. So, I don’t care how you justify it. If everyone was taking $.25 out of your hourly wages, would you see it different. If you don’t want to support an artist, don’t listen to their music.
>Neomonkey wrote: there’s nothing illegal about burning a CD of downloaded music (which you should do anyway to protect your investment) and then ripping to MP3.
Read your license agreement before you comment.
Your elegant burn-then-rip-to-bypass-DRM is fine for a couple of CDs of songs. But lets say you download $1000 worth of music, which is 1000 or more songs… how elegant is your burn-then-rip-to-bypass-DRM then?
You are, by virtue of avoiding hassle, locked into buying another Apple.
—
>Neomonkey wrote:Who wants crappy WMA files? How would it benefit ITMS?
… of course the ultimte goal is to benefit iTMS and not users right?
That’s where our thinking differs.
You selflessly endeavor to protect your beloved Apple.
I selfishly endeavor to get fair use out of every hard-earned dollar I make and protect my rights as a consumer.
—
>How would it benefit iTMS?
What a strange thought!
>Neomonkey wrote: there’s nothing illegal about burning a CD of downloaded music (which you should do anyway to protect your investment) and then ripping to MP3.
Read your license agreement before you comment.
Your elegant burn-then-rip-to-bypass-DRM is fine for a couple of CDs of songs. But lets say you download $1000 worth of music, which is 1000 or more songs… how elegant is your burn-then-rip-to-bypass-DRM then?
You are, by virtue of avoiding hassle, locked into buying another Apple.
—
>Neomonkey wrote:Who wants crappy WMA files? How would it benefit ITMS?
… of course the ultimte goal is to benefit iTMS and not users right?
That’s where our thinking differs.
You selflessly endeavor to protect your beloved Apple.
I selfishly endeavor to get fair use out of every hard-earned dollar I make and protect my rights as a consumer.
—
>How would it benefit iTMS?
What a strange thought!
>Neomonkey wrote: there’s nothing illegal about burning a CD of downloaded music (which you should do anyway to protect your investment) and then ripping to MP3.
Read your license agreement before you comment.
Your elegant burn-then-rip-to-bypass-DRM is fine for a couple of CDs of songs. But lets say you download $1000 worth of music, which is 1000 or more songs… how elegant is your burn-then-rip-to-bypass-DRM then?
You are, by virtue of avoiding hassle, locked into buying another Apple.
—
>Neomonkey wrote:Who wants crappy WMA files? How would it benefit ITMS?
… of course the ultimte goal is to benefit iTMS and not users right?
That’s where our thinking differs.
You selflessly endeavor to protect your beloved Apple.
I selfishly endeavor to get fair use out of every hard-earned dollar I make and protect my rights as a consumer.
—
>How would it benefit iTMS?
What a strange thought!
Jim has always been against Apple products from the very beginning. His views got Techtv banned from doing the Macworld keynotes. It wouldn’t matter what Apple did he would always make up some story and twist the facts so it sounded as if Apple didn’t know what they were doing.He has always been against Apple and doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s probably paid off by Microsoft in some way I imagine.
Dream the endless you can’t use Microsofts because they don’t allow Macs to use there system period. You need IE6 and Microsoft conveniently doesn’t make that version for Mac users.
This article wasn’t even worth mentioning here, all it did was lightly skim the iPod shuffle to plug for some other off-brand garbage player.
MDN must have some automated bot working for them.
Get with it MDN
Clearly, Louderback was tight against his deadline, so he ran to Target, did about 15 minutes of product testing there, ran out to his trusty Ford Grand Torino, cranked up the old Toshiba laptop, and tapped this one out on the fly, leaving just enough time to race home, jet a quick email to the office, and crank up another viewing of “Freddy Got Fingered.”
Jimmy just loves that Tom Green fella.
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“Locked in to buying another Apple” … that’s precious …
Yeah .. that’s what I’ve done for the past 13 years and will continue to do …. even if it cost a few more bucks and limits my “choices” .. which it doesn’t anyway and the extra money has always been worth it.
Why? … If you have to ask then you are just a PC dreg in disguise who will never understand the appeal of Apple and the general disdain Apple afficianadoes feel for MicroSlop and their products.
Count me “locked in”! Go Apple!
MPCG,
I’m sorry you find this difficult. I’m also sorry that you used the easiest trick in the book to avoid a direct answer. Feigning confusion.
Again, I was illustrating you’re refusal to allow one kind of vendor lock-in while ‘it seems’ that you have no compunction to promote another. Of course, you full well understood that.
Yes, ‘I’ brought up Word/Excel – to illustrate my point. And for all intents and purposes the business world is locked-into MS. Of course, you full well understand that.
Wordperfect as good as it may be, is a red-headed step-child in the business world. And you know that too!
So again, why is any of Apple’s ‘lock-in’ worse than any of MS’s ‘lock-in’?
Good points Mac & PC Guy
Check out this thread at AppleMatters about the types of Apple users out there:
http://applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/what_type_of_mac_head_are_you/
You are arguing with a Zealot, which makes sense as this is a site written by a couple of Zealots in MDN. Great Mac news site but somewhat narrow on perspective.
Anyway as much as I use and enjoy ITMS and the iPod I agree completely with you. You can’t be serious when you argue that ITMS is a “open solution” and only a blind and moronic zealot would do so. Rip to CD and rerip again? That’s an elegant solution? Which part is elegant? The additional degredation in sound quality or the 3 step process to free your music from the Apple only DRM?
Isn’t the whole point about ITMS ease of use and quality? Doesn’t reripping the music you paid for to use it where you want it fly in the face of that standard?
NeoMonkey, save your exceddingly weak and pathetic arguments, you make yourself sound like an idiot. Pretend for a second you aren’t Job’s butt buddy and that you were are just a regular Mac user. Is that possible?
“Do you do much with computers? I notice you don’t use HTML tags.”
Oh wait, you are an idiot. Carry on.
What is all this about ‘lock-in’? We, the people, decide what products will become the standard. We lock ourselves in. You want to change it? Switch. Start your own switch campaign, like Firefox. Will it work? That’s for the people to decide. The collective opinion will determine what we use. Wordstar, Wordperfect, Word… A better product will dethrone the incumbent.
It’s similar to complaining about the salary of atheletes or actors. The collective opinion sets their value, not them.
As for the iPod and iTMS. Nobody is locked-in. So switch. My parents have hundreds of records, they’ll never listen to again except on their turntable. Then, 8-tracks went the way of the dinosaur. Tapes? Where are they now? I can’t think of a soul who dubbed that quality to CD. Laserdisc, Beta, VHS? Welcome to my living room DVD. When my VCR broke, I repurchased what I wanted on DVD. As I mentioned earlier Atari, Colecovision, Nintendo, 3D0, Jaguar, Sega, Playstation, XBox – Nobody’s locked-in.
Now, if you’re over 30, you know formats and technology change. It’s for the better. How many times have you broke out of something you were locked into? Embrace one format and enjoy – until the next, more desirable format comes out.
However, unlike the iTMS music which I will probably always (if not, for a long while) be able to play on my PC or Mac, the format touted by most other music services will disapppear without my monthly tribute.
I’m an AppleHater.
Only Microsoft should win because they’re already winning. And they have a two button mouse.
Don’t try to debate the merits of Apple, or I’ll browbeat you with endless name-calling and circular logic.
Die all of you scum-sucking MacZealots. Windows is best because I love it’s arcane and twisted interface. I don’t actually have anything to do, but I can spend endless hours impressing the Noobs with my Windows skills.
Just remember MacZealots, Microsoft has it’s own embrace and extended formats for your own good. Apple locks you into their proprietary formats because Steve is an egomaniac.
The problem with iTunes and iPods is that they work with both Windows XP and Mac OS X. I can’t stand products that allow you to choose which platform you use! Windows Media player doesn’t come with that wacky proprietary mp3 format either. I hate how iTunes has built-in support for mp3 encoding.
The problem with iTunes and iPods is that they work with both Windows XP and Mac OS X. I can’t stand products that allow you to choose which platform you use! Windows Media player doesn’t come with that wacky proprietary mp3 format either. I hate how iTunes has built-in support for mp3 encoding.
The problem with iTunes and iPods is that they work with both Windows XP and Mac OS X. I can’t stand products that allow you to choose which platform you use! Windows Media player doesn’t come with that wacky proprietary mp3 format either. I hate how iTunes has built-in support for mp3 encoding.
Where’s Sputnik when we need him the most?
Mac & PC Guy
You sure are smart!
:p
Thank you! You always provide the true voice of reason when it comes to the mac/pc.
For me, I refuse to be locked into Microsoft’s DRM and its software. You may have a choice of MP3 player hardware but they all use Microsoft’s software underneath. And if MS doesn’t improve their software, then nothing happens. (Go ahead, look around, has there been much improvement in WMA MP3 player software?)
Based on my experience with MS Windows and Mac OS X, I am much greater faith that Apple will produce better underlying software for years to come!
>Mac & PC Guy (Jul 25, 05 – 06:55 pm): The problem with iTunes and iPods is that they work with both Windows XP and Mac OS X…
This was not posted by me. It’s unfortunate that reasonable dialogue comes to a halt quite often on this board – by people getting ridiculous in the commentary, becoming personally offensive, or using others’ names and posting something stupid.
And it’s sad this sort of stuff is tolerated, maybe even encouraged by the tone of MDN Editor commentary.
Anyway… Happy computing folks.
Mac & PC Guy
… on my PM G5 with a DVD building in the background using DVDSP, edited in FCP
>Mac & PC Guy (Jul 25, 05 – 06:55 pm): The problem with iTunes and iPods is that they work with both Windows XP and Mac OS X…
This was not posted by me. It’s unfortunate that reasonable dialogue comes to a halt quite often on this board – by people getting ridiculous in the commentary, becoming personally offensive, or using others’ names and posting something stupid.
And it’s sad this sort of stuff is tolerated, maybe even encouraged by the tone of MDN Editor commentary.
Anyway… Happy computing folks.
Mac & PC Guy
… on my PM G5 with a DVD building in the background using DVDSP, edited in FCP
>Mac & PC Guy (Jul 25, 05 – 06:55 pm): The problem with iTunes and iPods is that they work with both Windows XP and Mac OS X…
This was not posted by me. It’s unfortunate that reasonable dialogue comes to a halt quite often on this board – by people getting ridiculous in the commentary, becoming personally offensive, or using others’ names and posting something stupid.
And it’s sad this sort of stuff is tolerated, maybe even encouraged by the tone of MDN Editor commentary.
Anyway… Happy computing folks.
Mac & PC Guy
… on my PM G5 with a DVD building in the background using DVDSP, edited in FCP
People,
I wouldn’t take what Louderback says too seriously. This is the guy who, in 1997, gave Microsoft credit for FireWire. If he doesn’t know something that simple I don’t believe he’s much good as a journalist.
The thing to do is question him in a professional manner, without acting like the Mac fanatics we are often accused of being. Same with Ulanoff. The downside of this is that they won’t do anything about it. That seems to be their reputation from what I’ve seen.
Later
>From: Just wondering
I often wonder who is on the other end of an exchange. Sometimes I wish I knew because there are some interesting & knowledgable people on this board.
The devotion some show to Apple is amazing. Overall, it’s great that it works so well that people go to extremes defending the platform and the company.
But… I prefer to save that sort of energy for things closer to me: friends, family and such.
Anyway, thank you for post. If this were a bar, next round of drinks would be on me. G’day to you!
– Mac & PC Guy
>From: Just wondering
I often wonder who is on the other end of an exchange. Sometimes I wish I knew because there are some interesting & knowledgable people on this board.
The devotion some show to Apple is amazing. Overall, it’s great that it works so well that people go to extremes defending the platform and the company.
But… I prefer to save that sort of energy for things closer to me: friends, family and such.
Anyway, thank you for post. If this were a bar, next round of drinks would be on me. G’day to you!
– Mac & PC Guy
>From: Just wondering
I often wonder who is on the other end of an exchange. Sometimes I wish I knew because there are some interesting & knowledgable people on this board.
The devotion some show to Apple is amazing. Overall, it’s great that it works so well that people go to extremes defending the platform and the company.
But… I prefer to save that sort of energy for things closer to me: friends, family and such.
Anyway, thank you for post. If this were a bar, next round of drinks would be on me. G’day to you!
– Mac & PC Guy
There is a DRM issue with the shuffle, its subtle but massively irritating.
The music is tied to one computer – if you have multiple computers only one of them can read and “losslessly” add songs to the shuffle.
Unlike virtually all other “memory stick” based players the shuffles full storage space cannot be used as portable storage or player simultaneously, only one or the other. Thus if you want to use it as a storage device you need to assign less space for music (or alternatively you have to lose some music if you want to expand “storage” component)
Any other computer cannot read the songs on the shuffle, when shuffle is in player mode – .(it could be argued this is not too bad – though a pain if you want to use the shuffle in player mode as a handy method for moving your *legit* music from one PC to the next)..
The real problem is that you cannot use another computer to “losslessly” add songs to the shuffle – if you write to the shuffle with another computer i.e. not the one it is “tied” to. The shuffle then becomes tied to the “new” computer, adding songs wipes the existing songs.
I had bitter experience of this as I purchased a shuffle for my wife as a birthday present, as part of the surprise I borrowed some of her CDs and used my work computer to add songs from them to the shuffle, a CD or two each lunch break, until it was full (if I had used home PC she would have realised what I was doing, killing surprise element)..
A few weeks after receiving the shuffle present, my wife wanted to delete some songs and add others to the shuffle. Obviously she wanted to use our home PC for that – we were very upset to find that we could not just add and amend but had to lose all the stored music. This was especially worse as, because my work PC had done the ripping, I had “ripped” the songs straight to the shuffle and did not have the MP3s available to bring home and re add, so several accumulated hours of CD rip had been horribly wasted.
This is written as someone who is happy with iPod but very, very unhappy with shuffle, as I naively purchased it excepting same apple quality and ease of use, not perverse restrictions.
You can thank the “lovely” record companies for that one Dave
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” /> and you don’t need it at work. That way she can re load the songs onto her Shuffle and change them at will. Good luck.
Cheers for the suggestion – but whole hassle is I do not have the burned MP3s on my work PC – as its for work use. Hence burning only in lunch break & burning straight to the shuffle – only disk based storage would have been temporary files iTunes created in the process 🙁
A silly way to alienate people – happy ipod use made me buy a shuffle over cheaper options, but the shuffle experience has made me far less likely to buy apple in future – especially as I contacted apple directly with my complaints and was not even given a reply to my questions (not even pro forma never mind “genuine”) – a little apology (even if probably not meant in any way!) for the problems I faced would have been nice and would have made all the difference to my opinion of apple.
Its as if apple have taken the approach of 2 purchases from me, and got their profit rather than appearing bothered about wanting me as a future customer, which is a bit counter productive as it’s pushing me further away from ever buying a mac (though my wife still wants one on aesthetic grounds!).
what annoys ME most is that I rip a CD to my computer at work put it on my ipod shuffe and can’t copy the file to my home computer… this is legal… there is no DRM on the file… yet… “sticky” drm issues are built into the player!!! I can’t do it without resorting to using the ipod as a hard drive
Most MP3 players work like a hard drive… the shuffle can’t even PLAY on another computer, nevermind actually copy.
It’s fine if you want to limit DRM’d songs… but why limit my RIPPED songs… so stupid… ipod is the only player that does this…. and it pisses me off.
Dave Challender-
I am sorry that you lost your music and that is seems a pain for you, however, all that information was available BEFORE you purchased the Shuffle. I read it and accepted it and use the Shuffle for what is designed. I am not calling you stupid, however, if you don’t know what the product does before you buy it, you really can’t blame the company for selling a “poor” product if you don’t do the research. All the info is out there to help make a smart purchase.
Sorry
Dave,
Apple agreed to the music companies’ demand that music not be copied off of the iPod and that each iPod be tied to a particular Mac, so as to limit illegal copying. This is true of all iPods, not just the shuffle. But all such rules do get in the way of legal copying… So having said that, there is software out there (try MacUpdate or VersionTracker) that helps you to simply copy your songs off your iPod onto another Mac. All your CD ripping need not be wasted.
Cheers! My magic word was “police” – Just keep it legal and you won’t have to worry about the police.
>Happy Shuffle Owner: … all that information was available BEFORE you purchased the Shuffle… you really can’t blame the company for selling a “poor” product if you don’t do the research….
Can you imagine if all companies were to act on that line of thinking? In a busy world filled with issues much grander than researching and iPod shuffle breaking away from previous design and implementation (within its own line as well as competing products), your comment amounts to nothing more than an excuse for a crappy design.
If it were anyone other than your god Apple, then you’d be bashing it to no end. But since it’s your god Apple involved, then its obviously the consumer’s fault.
Not quite how you put it… but it puts your point-of-view in the right context.
>Happy Shuffle Owner: … all that information was available BEFORE you purchased the Shuffle… you really can’t blame the company for selling a “poor” product if you don’t do the research….
Can you imagine if all companies were to act on that line of thinking? In a busy world filled with issues much grander than researching and iPod shuffle breaking away from previous design and implementation (within its own line as well as competing products), your comment amounts to nothing more than an excuse for a crappy design.
If it were anyone other than your god Apple, then you’d be bashing it to no end. But since it’s your god Apple involved, then its obviously the consumer’s fault.
Not quite how you put it… but it puts your point-of-view in the right context.
>Happy Shuffle Owner: … all that information was available BEFORE you purchased the Shuffle… you really can’t blame the company for selling a “poor” product if you don’t do the research….
Can you imagine if all companies were to act on that line of thinking? In a busy world filled with issues much grander than researching and iPod shuffle breaking away from previous design and implementation (within its own line as well as competing products), your comment amounts to nothing more than an excuse for a crappy design.
If it were anyone other than your god Apple, then you’d be bashing it to no end. But since it’s your god Apple involved, then its obviously the consumer’s fault.
Not quite how you put it… but it puts your point-of-view in the right context.