“MacDailyNews (MDN) has been expunged from this pundit’s bookmarks. Their use of pop-under advertising has simply become too annoying,” ron carlson writes for Insanely Great Mac. “As the site plainly admitted, a cookie generated by the site limits the number of pop-under ads to one every 24 hours. There are days when I’ve seen more, but one is the general rule. However, a couple dozen Mac sites offer nearly identical content and manage to put bread on the table without resorting to such unwashed advertising tactics. So, why suffer even a single moment’s annoyance?”
carlson writes, “Perhaps if enough of us decide that pop-unders aren’t acceptable, period, MDN will change its tune. Until then here’s one reader that’s taking his ad impressions and walking… What’s your take?”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: MDN will change our tune when we can land an advertiser or advertisers that will commit to making up for the loss of the pop-under revenue. The alternative is a site is updated much less frequently without a single pop-under per day. If a single pop-under bothers you enough to no longer visit MDN, well, we hope to welcome you home when we’ve landed that replacement revenue. Or maybe Apple will get Safari working again… Anyway, the full, sordid “pop-under story” is explained here and we also provide a link for opting-out of pop-unders.
Please ask yourself honestly, of the “a couple dozen Mac sites that offer nearly identical content” out there, how many would link to an article that reams them (thanks, ron) and also provide an advertising opt-out option to its readers?
We’ve been upfront about this throughout. We’ve always had pop-unders. Safari users got used to not having them and a few people had a minor stroke when Safari’s pop-under blocker was coded around. Welcome to Capitalism. MDN stopped pop-unders immediately at this time – based on principle – while we investigated. When we discovered a way to let those who didn’t want pop-under ads opt-out, we provided the link and turned those ads back on. Without advertisers, MDN cannot run – this is an ad-supported site. Admittedly, we’re not the greatest ad salespeople, but we’re trying our best (lately) and things are slowly getting better.
We thank our loyal readers for their support. We really appreciate it!
Advertisers who are interested in placing an ad campaign with MDN, please email and see our Advertising Information page here.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Safari’s and Firefox’s Pop-Up Blockers broken? [UPDATE] – February 20, 2005
I used to check this site a couple times a day, now I check it at lunch about 3 times a week. Not a total boycott, but spawning new windows unless you opt out isn’t acceptable to me. That message needs to reach sites AND ad companies alike. MDN is the ONLY site I use that does this–and I got TWO of them just getting to this page.
I agree that ads are a necessary evil to pay for free content, but spawning new windows isn’t acceptable. It’s good that MDN is communicating with readers about the issue. But they SHOULD put a big link at the top of every page on how to disable the pop-unders.
And allowing yet another cookie should NOT be required to opt out!
Conclusion:
YES I would rather MDN published less often if that’s all they can afford to do without pop-unders! I’ll be visiting less often anyway… and that means lower ad revenues too.
the pop-under adds here at MDN are triggered by a simple way of javascripting… the script is hidden this way so safari e.a. can’t react on them.
result : pop-under
please read carefully… pop-UNDER
yes it’s annoying – but not the end of the world! it’s behind all the stuff you’re reading – how can that be annoying?
the add pays for the stuff you read here – fair trade me think!
i don’t even close the window… not even with one click… it will close itself when i quit safari anyway…
please guys stop whining!
i would actually rather see all the other blinking-flickering-and-what-have-you adds go the same way…
POP-UNDER!!!
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
solution:
either use the link MDN provided – use pithelmet – OR
do the same i did:
use your bug-report menu item (upper-left in safari menu) in safari and let Apple know that you found a pop-under that goes around the blocker of safari! (you can include the site and code!)
i also explained my findings about how i think they work…
and then sit back – wait and wait – and then one day a new version of safari comes out that blocks all varieties of pop-up-under etc! give it some time…
the Apple way!
Triumph should do a poop-under.
As for IGM, I love the way they solved the repeating post problem….not.
What’s your take?
I must be missing something… I’m using Safari + PithHelmet and I haven’t gotten a single pop-up/pop-under ad…
Dave-
I said MDN is misrepresenting the Mac experience. Not that you don’t get it. MDN has openly criticized exploitable weaknesses in IE that allow for popups many times in the past, yet openly engages in that very practice themselves. That’s hypocricy. If you’re going to act better, BE better.
Peter-
You aren’t the only one that’s made this situation aware to Apple. The entire point is this: If MDN is going to set itself up as a pro-Mac outlet, should it be engaging in practices that exploit holes and weaknesses in web browsers? That sounds like a winhacker tactic to me. But as I am one of the few people that chooses to voice my displeasures with MDN when they arise instead of constantly reinforcing the things they do, I am an obvious minority.
Note: I was speaking to “hedgehogfrenzy” not “Dave H”
What’s annoying about the pop-unders is the fact that they drive the processor to 100 %. I have menu meters installed, and every time I see processor use go to 100%, sure enough a pop-under ad is flashing. You kill the ad, and processor use is down to 10-20%. It makes the computer slow, and causes the fans to start on my Powerbook. These are not ads, this is malware.
BTW, it happens on two Powerbooks and one eMac, both under Safari and under Firefox.
It’s been great bitching about MS here, but I do not approve of this way of feeding sleazy stuff into my Macs. That makes me one person less to view the ads of the honest advertisers.
Your not a “reader,” you are a competitor!
Very dishonest Ron!!!!!!
Allowing your site to be used to do things that affect a visitor’s computer/desktop without that user’s permission is fundamentally unethical. That’s all there is to it. The fact that MDN profits from that doesn’t help–and blaming “capitalism” for MDN’s decisions is the lamest copout I’ve heard in a long time.
OK, so it’s far from the worst thing that the MDN site could do to visitors’ computers. Are we supposed to be grateful that MDN doesn’t have some terminal shell script on its site that would erase our hard-drives and replace it with a screen flashing the name of their highest paying advertiser???
Gee, thanks.
We expect better from our friends…
After Installing the lattest update yesterday, I haven’t seen a pop-under anymore…
Wow, it is amazing the Bru-ha-ha that has arisen over something that takes MAYBE 5 seconds (probably more like 2) per day to do. Namely, to move your mouse 10 cm and click a a window closed. Talk about being sensitive! I guess Mac users are so used to things working almost perfectly that anything less can send some of us off the deep end. The enjoyment I get from reading and participating on MDN is more than worth 5 seconds of my time and the energy needed to move the mouse 10 cm and click once.
it does not work. and i am in agreement with Carlson. There are days i don’t feel like coming to this site simply for the stupid pop-unders. i expect this from a porn site or other 3rd rate websites. from a Mac web we should expect better. revenue or no revenu.
incidentally, i check MDN from work throughout the day from my PC. Although i use Firefox to block popups, they are still getting through on MDN website. Same as Safari. but what really gets me is that these pop-unders are made to look like a Windows command interaction. On a Mac you can catch those very quickly. Not so true on a PC. When you think you are click “OK” to close a Window, it is in actualality tricking you to these advertisers. My point is, it is bad enough i have to work on this POS PC. I don’t need anymore spyware on my machine.
Spyware from a Mac website… the irony of it.
Respect our preferences!
here’s a thought — put full text on the RSS feed.
Give us a chance and see how we vote with our traffic.
You may want advertisers but advertisers want us. We are the engine that give your site the power to make money.
Treat us with respect and we will be loyal MDN fans. Threat us like a commodity and we will always think of you in the same way we think of microsoft or OPEC.
The latest security patch seems to have stopped the pop unders from this site. Both at home and at work are now not getting anymore pop under ads.
Pop-unders BITE. No one would mind a little delay in getting rid of the pop-unders while you (MDN) adjust your plans–either obtaining replacement revenue or cutting costs–but you should state clearly that you’ve made the decision and provide at least an approximate timeframe.
As Apple has proven, a committed and loyal customer base will see you through hard times, while customers that feel abused may stay with you for the time being, but they’ll jump ship at the first opportunity. Arrogance comes before the fall.
I know the pop-unders are only supposed to show up once per day, which I suppose wouldn’t be too bad, but I have just seen my third pop-under ad so far today on MDN. Is there a reason why I am getting more than my fair share?
I just did a google search for “Mac News” and noticed something rather interesting.
http://www.macnn.com/ – 84k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.maccentral.com/ – 35k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macsurfer.com/ – 101k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macminute.com/ – 54k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.thinksecret.com/ – 33k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macrumors.com/ – 47k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macbytes.com/ – 31k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macdailynews.com/ – 101k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ – 52k
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/ – 23k – Mar 20, 2005
As you can see, MDN uses about 100% more bandwidth than all but two of those sites (of those that showed calculated page sizes) on their main page. Not a terribly large amount, but when calculated over the thousands of hits they get, it adds up.
How about trimming some on the fat? Cut your costs, less advertising revenue is needed to support the site, less advertisements that need to be served to us… NO more excuses for why pop ups/unders need to exist here.
Correction: that’s 100% more than all but 4 sites. At least 20% more than all but one.
My apologies for the miscommunication.
I for one have not had a single pop-under since I used the opt-out link. People, listen to MDN and use the link.
One thing all you “it doesn’t bother me to close one pupunder” people fail to realize is that if every web site sunk to the same level as MDN in order to earn Ad revenue, it wouldn’t just be one popunder a day–it would be dozens.
If you are alright with MDN doing it, then you can’t complain if everyone starts doing the same thing. I generally have a dozen news sites open in tabs in one window. I use tabbed browsing in order to keep my computer screen uncluttered. If every one of those news sites employed pop-under ads, then when I close my main window to get some work done, I’d have to close 12 windows. So much for tabbed browsing.
Well, MDN has every right to run their site any which way they want, and I have every right to show my dissatisfaction by not coming to this site anymore. So that’s what I’ll do.
A.D.,
Hold down the “Option” key while clicking red close button on your main window. Prepare to be astounded, you moron.
If we visit MDN less often because of your pop-under ads, your revenue will drop more than your loss from dropping those damn pop-unders.
I used to visit many times a day, and I USED TO click through and buy items from your banner ads, NEVER AGAIN, you lost me as revenue, if you persist on the annoying advertising I will take my money elsewhere. I check in maybe once every three of four days now and will never click an ad again now that I see your attitude about this.
“MDN will change our tune when we can land an advertiser or advertisers that will commit to making up for the loss of the pop-under revenue.”
Your loss is another web sites gain.
sMac: “If we visit MDN less often because of your pop-under ads, your revenue will drop more than your loss from dropping those damn pop-unders.”
Not necessarily. It depends wholly on how many people will visit less (not many, I suppose) and how much revenue the pop-unders generate for MDN – as well as other factors.
I would think that MDN took a look at the revenue from pop-unders and the percentage of traffic from people idiotic enough to be so offended that they’d stop visiting. Looks like MDN decided to keep the pop-under revenue and lose the idiots – a win/win situation, if there ever was one.
MDN said a few weeks ago that they would stop all popunders until they fixed the problem. Now we are told they are doing it on purpose. What’s up MDN? Split personality?
Meat, and what if I want to keep another separate window open? Then what smart ass?