“MacDailyNews (MDN) has been expunged from this pundit’s bookmarks. Their use of pop-under advertising has simply become too annoying,” ron carlson writes for Insanely Great Mac. “As the site plainly admitted, a cookie generated by the site limits the number of pop-under ads to one every 24 hours. There are days when I’ve seen more, but one is the general rule. However, a couple dozen Mac sites offer nearly identical content and manage to put bread on the table without resorting to such unwashed advertising tactics. So, why suffer even a single moment’s annoyance?”
carlson writes, “Perhaps if enough of us decide that pop-unders aren’t acceptable, period, MDN will change its tune. Until then here’s one reader that’s taking his ad impressions and walking… What’s your take?”
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: MDN will change our tune when we can land an advertiser or advertisers that will commit to making up for the loss of the pop-under revenue. The alternative is a site is updated much less frequently without a single pop-under per day. If a single pop-under bothers you enough to no longer visit MDN, well, we hope to welcome you home when we’ve landed that replacement revenue. Or maybe Apple will get Safari working again… Anyway, the full, sordid “pop-under story” is explained here and we also provide a link for opting-out of pop-unders.
Please ask yourself honestly, of the “a couple dozen Mac sites that offer nearly identical content” out there, how many would link to an article that reams them (thanks, ron) and also provide an advertising opt-out option to its readers?
We’ve been upfront about this throughout. We’ve always had pop-unders. Safari users got used to not having them and a few people had a minor stroke when Safari’s pop-under blocker was coded around. Welcome to Capitalism. MDN stopped pop-unders immediately at this time – based on principle – while we investigated. When we discovered a way to let those who didn’t want pop-under ads opt-out, we provided the link and turned those ads back on. Without advertisers, MDN cannot run – this is an ad-supported site. Admittedly, we’re not the greatest ad salespeople, but we’re trying our best (lately) and things are slowly getting better.
We thank our loyal readers for their support. We really appreciate it!
Advertisers who are interested in placing an ad campaign with MDN, please email and see our Advertising Information page here.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Safari’s and Firefox’s Pop-Up Blockers broken? [UPDATE] – February 20, 2005
As a result of the pop-under bru-haha, I followed the links and installed PithHelmet. Now most ads at news sites are blocked, as well as pop-unders.
Net gain for me.
No matter how much I dislike pop ups, pop unders, pop tarts, and everything pop, MDN’s explanation allows me to live with their pop unders for now.
I’d miss MDN more than the freaking adverts.
Not only MDN adds cheap comments to some articles it chooses to publish; they (MDN bloggers) also bash anyone without thinking twice. Their pop up ads makes their site look like a porn discussion forum with angry participant insulting anyone making a constructive comment or thinking different.
All of it is done one linux servers for a site that’s supposed to praise Apple product.
Peace out Punks
Flash is launching these pop-unders. I removed ‘Flash Player.plugin’ and ‘flashplayer.xpt’ from /Library/Internet Plug-ins and now I’m pop-under free in Safari. I was sick of Flash slowing my web page loading times anyway.
If you don’t want to get rid of Flash altogether, I also recommend PithHelmet.
It would take more than a single pop-under to make me remove a informative, interesting and fun site from my list of usuals, I actually find the NYTimes ads you have to skip to get to the article FAR more annoying. Thses people are so whiney, maybe they need their diapers changed.
How is one pop-under a day annoying, unless you are viewing with a WinTel machine which has no limitation?
Boeing 777:
And all that is bad because…????
Only MDN would link to an article severely criticizing them and that’s why I take my one pop-under a day & close them with one mouse click. Pop-under ad opponents need to get a more worthwhile cause in life. Thanks, MDN – keep up the “insanely-great” work!
i agree with buffy; the nytimes interstetial ads are much more annoying.
I don’t mind the pop unders except for one NOISE making one that popped under a couple of times. It almost had me walking from this great site!
What are advertisers getting with pop-unders? It only makes people angry to have these ads foisted on them, not exactly what the advertisers want.
This is the only one of many sites I visit that has pop-unders. All those other sites get by without that revenue, maybe MacDailyNews should weigh their user’s annoyance levels against the profit.
Magic word “poor” for poor customer care.
MDN-Keep up the good work. You have many more faithful readers (than pop-under whiners) who come to MDN for content. Beside, I never see the pop-under because when I’m finished my reading I Quit Safari. No big deal!
“How is one pop-under a day annoying, unless you are viewing with a WinTel machine which has no limitation?”
MacBill, it’s annoying to those to hate the fact that their choice to block popup ads is being subverted using the “tactics of a hacker”. Also, I never turn my Macs off and on my home machine, Safari is always running, sometimes for days. When I eventually close the Safari window, sometimes there are 3 or 4 ad windows waiting to be closed underneath the main window. Also, I have a 23″ widescreen display, and my Safari window is usually less than half as wide as the screen. Depending on where I position it (i move around the screen depending on what I’m doing), the pop-under ads don’t appear UNDER the Safari window, but off to the left of it, covering up my Mail or other application windows, which kinda distracts me. Now THAT’s annoying.
You know MDN, there are lots of ways to make money by lowering your standards. I’d rather see porn or gambling ads on the main page (which probably pay better than some of these other ads) than have pop-unders, and user’s shouldn’t have to actively search out a solution to opting out of the pop-ups. If you really care about being “forthcoming”, then why not put a link in plain site on all pages that clearly says “Click here to opt-out of pop-under advertisements.”
You know what? I’m tired of complaining, I’m going to take MDN’s advice and stop visiting this site, there isn’t anything here that I can’t find at MacNN, MacOSRumors, TMO, IGM, eWeek, MacMinute, MacCentral, SpyMac, MacSlash, MacWorld, The Register, Think Secret and AppleInsider anyways, since MDN doesn’t actually do any of their own journalism.
One question to MDN: How are you going to let your lost readers know you have finally found that golden advertiser and have stopped the pop-under ads? Many of those readers will be lost for good.
Peace out.
—
Magic word: move. “It’s time to move on people.”
Hey I’m really missing out here. I have used MDN for the last couple of years and I have never had a pop under, pop over or anything else that could bother me.
Must be that odd little bit of software I installed years ago and forgot about – think its called Pithhelmet.
What a fuss about nothing.
And hey Boing777, I have no idea how porn-site discussion forums work. Are they as good as MDN?
Cheap comments and left hook criticisms seem to me part of the fun. Please don’t tell me you come here for really serious intellectual stimulation…though of course we all enjoy hearing from folk who really know their onions.
I agree Andy C. I’ve already donated financially to MDN and now this as a reward. Stop this pop-under bullshit MDN. Just stop it! It’s so bloody annoying.
pop unders simply suck and MDN sucks twice because they have them. I don’t care if there is something that blocks them or if there is a workaround, they just suck and it reflects GREATLY on MDN for using them.
I find it hard to believe this one single pop under a day generates so much revenue that MDN must have to exist as it does now. When I look around each page and see as much space taken up by ads as I do by actual content posted by MDN, I fail to buy into this lamebrain fudging of the facts that some of you people do. One pop under is not a colossal moneymaker, so lose it.
It’s a bullshit excuse.
Well, golly, I don’t know. Insanely Great Mac is such a lame site anyway. Who goes there? The people who write the stories don’t seem to have much of a clue anyway.
I don’t understand everyone’s whining. I have to click one red X button when I close my browser window a day. Boo hoo. My poor carpal tunnel. We put up with much worse on TV everyday (unless you don’t have one).
If you don’t like the content, then don’t come here. If you do like it, don’t let one tiny box cause you to go. Sometimes a tiny bit of effort is required to receive something FOR FREE!!!!
– David
Unfortunately, Dave, it’s about more than just closing a window.
MDN pretends to big this big Mac proponent who comments often about the Apple philosophy as oppsed to the Microsoft philosophy.
WHen MDN tells you you can easily just install pithhelmet or whatever to get rid of pop ups/unders, they’re doing nothing more than telling you to install a security patch. But they forget that Mac people don’t want to feel obligated to install things on their systems. We don’t want to have to install extra shit on our computers just to get a quality experience. We EXPECT a quality experience from the get-go.
MDN can easily deal with this by eliminating pop ups/unders and go back to adding even more on page advertising. It’s equally annoying, but requires no real interaction of my part.
The bottom line is this: If you’re going to be a Mac proponent (whch this site is abive and beyond an actual news outlet) then act like you have a clue about what the Mac experience is. Don’t be hypocritical and bash Microsoft for a windows product (IE) that can’t block pop ups/unders (which oddly enough MDN doesn’t link you to any of the articles where they’ve openly ripped MS for this) and then openly embrace a situation that forces Mac users to have to install extra software to block ads that shouldn’t be getting served to us anyway.
You can’t have it both ways.
So you’re saying that it’s MDN’s responsibility to fix the problem with Safari? Shouldn’t you complain to Apple about how their feature no longer works?
Granted, it is too bad that MDN needs to continue using pop-under ads, especially if they don’t generate much revenue, but whining about it just makes you look childish.
Gosh, I’m so annoyed by two popunders a day (I check in at home and at work) that I – I – I – want my money back! Yeah, that’s right, I want back every cent I’ve ever spent reading MDN — with interest! Time is money — can you imagine how much its costing me to click those two close boxes a day!?
Ooooh! Capitalism is so mean!
Can’t we just get Triumph to poop on them?
So your telling me because I don’t mind clicking a box, I don’t understand the Mac experience?
Your logic dosen’t follow.
What you really meant is that I don’t understand what you want/think the Mac experience to be.
I don’t think the Mac experience is having web sites that don’t have pop under ads. I don’t think that is Steve’s plan when he works on extending Mac capabilities through both hardware and software.
What you are complaining about is content. You don’t like the content. You are too lazy to close the box at the end of your browsing session.
I understand the Mac experience. I have converted many others to the Mac experience. I just vaule the content here, the comments and MDN takes that make me laught and think, enough to close the pop up ad.
I used to check this site a couple times a day, now I check it at lunch about 3 times a week. Not a total boycott, but spawning new windows unless you opt out isn’t acceptable to me. That message needs to reach sites AND ad companies alike. MDN is the ONLY site I use that does this–and I got TWO of them just getting to this page.
I agree that ads are a necessary evil to pay for free content, but spawning new windows isn’t acceptable. It’s good that MDN is communicating with readers about the issue. But they SHOULD put a big link at the top of every page on how to disable the pop-unders.
And allowing yet another cookie should NOT be required to opt out!
Conclusion:
YES I would rather MDN published less often if that’s all they can afford to do without pop-unders! I’ll be visiting less often anyway… and that means lower ad revenues too.
the pop-under adds here at MDN are triggered by a simple way of javascripting… the script is hidden this way so safari e.a. can’t react on them.
result : pop-under
please read carefully… pop-UNDER
yes it’s annoying – but not the end of the world! it’s behind all the stuff you’re reading – how can that be annoying?
the add pays for the stuff you read here – fair trade me think!
i don’t even close the window… not even with one click… it will close itself when i quit safari anyway…
please guys stop whining!
i would actually rather see all the other blinking-flickering-and-what-have-you adds go the same way…
POP-UNDER!!!
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
solution:
either use the link MDN provided – use pithelmet – OR
do the same i did:
use your bug-report menu item (upper-left in safari menu) in safari and let Apple know that you found a pop-under that goes around the blocker of safari! (you can include the site and code!)
i also explained my findings about how i think they work…
and then sit back – wait and wait – and then one day a new version of safari comes out that blocks all varieties of pop-up-under etc! give it some time…
the Apple way!
Triumph should do a poop-under.
As for IGM, I love the way they solved the repeating post problem….not.
What’s your take?
I must be missing something… I’m using Safari + PithHelmet and I haven’t gotten a single pop-up/pop-under ad…
Dave-
I said MDN is misrepresenting the Mac experience. Not that you don’t get it. MDN has openly criticized exploitable weaknesses in IE that allow for popups many times in the past, yet openly engages in that very practice themselves. That’s hypocricy. If you’re going to act better, BE better.
Peter-
You aren’t the only one that’s made this situation aware to Apple. The entire point is this: If MDN is going to set itself up as a pro-Mac outlet, should it be engaging in practices that exploit holes and weaknesses in web browsers? That sounds like a winhacker tactic to me. But as I am one of the few people that chooses to voice my displeasures with MDN when they arise instead of constantly reinforcing the things they do, I am an obvious minority.
Note: I was speaking to “hedgehogfrenzy” not “Dave H”
What’s annoying about the pop-unders is the fact that they drive the processor to 100 %. I have menu meters installed, and every time I see processor use go to 100%, sure enough a pop-under ad is flashing. You kill the ad, and processor use is down to 10-20%. It makes the computer slow, and causes the fans to start on my Powerbook. These are not ads, this is malware.
BTW, it happens on two Powerbooks and one eMac, both under Safari and under Firefox.
It’s been great bitching about MS here, but I do not approve of this way of feeding sleazy stuff into my Macs. That makes me one person less to view the ads of the honest advertisers.
Your not a “reader,” you are a competitor!
Very dishonest Ron!!!!!!
Allowing your site to be used to do things that affect a visitor’s computer/desktop without that user’s permission is fundamentally unethical. That’s all there is to it. The fact that MDN profits from that doesn’t help–and blaming “capitalism” for MDN’s decisions is the lamest copout I’ve heard in a long time.
OK, so it’s far from the worst thing that the MDN site could do to visitors’ computers. Are we supposed to be grateful that MDN doesn’t have some terminal shell script on its site that would erase our hard-drives and replace it with a screen flashing the name of their highest paying advertiser???
Gee, thanks.
We expect better from our friends…
After Installing the lattest update yesterday, I haven’t seen a pop-under anymore…
Wow, it is amazing the Bru-ha-ha that has arisen over something that takes MAYBE 5 seconds (probably more like 2) per day to do. Namely, to move your mouse 10 cm and click a a window closed. Talk about being sensitive! I guess Mac users are so used to things working almost perfectly that anything less can send some of us off the deep end. The enjoyment I get from reading and participating on MDN is more than worth 5 seconds of my time and the energy needed to move the mouse 10 cm and click once.
it does not work. and i am in agreement with Carlson. There are days i don’t feel like coming to this site simply for the stupid pop-unders. i expect this from a porn site or other 3rd rate websites. from a Mac web we should expect better. revenue or no revenu.
incidentally, i check MDN from work throughout the day from my PC. Although i use Firefox to block popups, they are still getting through on MDN website. Same as Safari. but what really gets me is that these pop-unders are made to look like a Windows command interaction. On a Mac you can catch those very quickly. Not so true on a PC. When you think you are click “OK” to close a Window, it is in actualality tricking you to these advertisers. My point is, it is bad enough i have to work on this POS PC. I don’t need anymore spyware on my machine.
Spyware from a Mac website… the irony of it.
Respect our preferences!
here’s a thought — put full text on the RSS feed.
Give us a chance and see how we vote with our traffic.
You may want advertisers but advertisers want us. We are the engine that give your site the power to make money.
Treat us with respect and we will be loyal MDN fans. Threat us like a commodity and we will always think of you in the same way we think of microsoft or OPEC.
The latest security patch seems to have stopped the pop unders from this site. Both at home and at work are now not getting anymore pop under ads.
Pop-unders BITE. No one would mind a little delay in getting rid of the pop-unders while you (MDN) adjust your plans–either obtaining replacement revenue or cutting costs–but you should state clearly that you’ve made the decision and provide at least an approximate timeframe.
As Apple has proven, a committed and loyal customer base will see you through hard times, while customers that feel abused may stay with you for the time being, but they’ll jump ship at the first opportunity. Arrogance comes before the fall.
I know the pop-unders are only supposed to show up once per day, which I suppose wouldn’t be too bad, but I have just seen my third pop-under ad so far today on MDN. Is there a reason why I am getting more than my fair share?
I just did a google search for “Mac News” and noticed something rather interesting.
http://www.macnn.com/ – 84k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.maccentral.com/ – 35k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macsurfer.com/ – 101k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macminute.com/ – 54k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.thinksecret.com/ – 33k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macrumors.com/ – 47k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macbytes.com/ – 31k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macdailynews.com/ – 101k – Mar 20, 2005
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ – 52k
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/ – 23k – Mar 20, 2005
As you can see, MDN uses about 100% more bandwidth than all but two of those sites (of those that showed calculated page sizes) on their main page. Not a terribly large amount, but when calculated over the thousands of hits they get, it adds up.
How about trimming some on the fat? Cut your costs, less advertising revenue is needed to support the site, less advertisements that need to be served to us… NO more excuses for why pop ups/unders need to exist here.
Correction: that’s 100% more than all but 4 sites. At least 20% more than all but one.
My apologies for the miscommunication.
I for one have not had a single pop-under since I used the opt-out link. People, listen to MDN and use the link.
One thing all you “it doesn’t bother me to close one pupunder” people fail to realize is that if every web site sunk to the same level as MDN in order to earn Ad revenue, it wouldn’t just be one popunder a day–it would be dozens.
If you are alright with MDN doing it, then you can’t complain if everyone starts doing the same thing. I generally have a dozen news sites open in tabs in one window. I use tabbed browsing in order to keep my computer screen uncluttered. If every one of those news sites employed pop-under ads, then when I close my main window to get some work done, I’d have to close 12 windows. So much for tabbed browsing.
Well, MDN has every right to run their site any which way they want, and I have every right to show my dissatisfaction by not coming to this site anymore. So that’s what I’ll do.
A.D.,
Hold down the “Option” key while clicking red close button on your main window. Prepare to be astounded, you moron.
If we visit MDN less often because of your pop-under ads, your revenue will drop more than your loss from dropping those damn pop-unders.
I used to visit many times a day, and I USED TO click through and buy items from your banner ads, NEVER AGAIN, you lost me as revenue, if you persist on the annoying advertising I will take my money elsewhere. I check in maybe once every three of four days now and will never click an ad again now that I see your attitude about this.
“MDN will change our tune when we can land an advertiser or advertisers that will commit to making up for the loss of the pop-under revenue.”
Your loss is another web sites gain.
sMac: “If we visit MDN less often because of your pop-under ads, your revenue will drop more than your loss from dropping those damn pop-unders.”
Not necessarily. It depends wholly on how many people will visit less (not many, I suppose) and how much revenue the pop-unders generate for MDN – as well as other factors.
I would think that MDN took a look at the revenue from pop-unders and the percentage of traffic from people idiotic enough to be so offended that they’d stop visiting. Looks like MDN decided to keep the pop-under revenue and lose the idiots – a win/win situation, if there ever was one.
MDN said a few weeks ago that they would stop all popunders until they fixed the problem. Now we are told they are doing it on purpose. What’s up MDN? Split personality?
Meat, and what if I want to keep another separate window open? Then what smart ass?
MDN website – Where else can you get a Microsoft experience on your Mac for free?!
I consistently get 3 or 4 pop-unders from MDN daily. As such, I visit about once or twice a week. After reading these comments, I agree with most of the annoyed people on here and will probably never return.
MDN’s intentionally circumventing Mac’s ad filtering is unconscionable. To boldly be proud of making money from this action is totally inexcusable.
Bye!!!
You know if you’re going to treat your readers with such a steaming pile of contempt, don’t expect much love back. What this means is if I ever accidently find myself on this website, I will go out of my way to not click on any advertisement here, I will configure any and all ad blocking software to not only disable pop-ups (flash, javascript, dhtml, and otherwise), but to disable the otherwise unobtusive inline ads in each article.
I agree with max and buffy. MDN, I love you guys. (*sniff*) man, don’t ever leave me.
But if you ever make me get a violation at my company for inappropriate web content, you’re history.
MW Center, as in you are the center of my Mac News.
I’ve been getting a lot more than my alleged limit of one popunder per day. In fact, the first time I visit MDN on a given day, if I hit the Back button to return to the home page, I get a brand new popunder to add to my collection. Pity I don’t want a collection.
It’s rather funny, don’t you think, that this is the only news or opinion site I ever visit that insists on having popunders as a revenue source. Every other website I frequent makes do without them.
So how shall I handle this? Hmm, let me see:
1. Track down PithHelmet, install it, then do regular upgrades every time MDN, or the sleazeball ‘service’ serving the popunders, writes a fresh hack to defeat the anti-popunder code.
2. Get my Mac news from any of the dozens of other sites that cover exactly the same stories as MDN, often in more technical detail, always without annoying HTML adware.
It was actually a fairly balanced decision for awhile, because my habits and my bookmarks list favoured #1. But I really do not appreciate MDN’s cavalier attitude as revealed in this article. You’re hacking my system, guys, to defeat a security feature which is one of the chief selling points of Safari, and that is totally unacceptable to me.
I don’t give a good goddamn that you are (by your own admission) incompetent at selling legitimate forms of advertising. If you can’t survive on the revenue streams that support every other successful Mac site on the Net, then I guess you’re just SOL.
So I’m taking my business down the road.
Welcome to capitalism, yourself.
With a combination of Safari’s pop-up blocker, PithHelmet, and a custom style sheet, I don’t see any ads at all! Check it out:
This is a test:
<href=”
“>
That’s curious… How do you post web links here?
MDN why not use the opt in model…all the ppl who want to support your site and have pop unders install a cookie
it is considered to be illeagal for anyone to bypass my computer security (safaris ad block option )and display a pop under ad
i have reported the matter to the police and they are investigating
this sneaky hacker attack
Принимающ гордость в рубить в другие компьютеры пока развевающ знамя славы, успеха и жалостливого капитализма. Я довольно имел бы моего ребенка вырасти вверх наблюдая порнография чем учат эти снованные общественнаяа стоимость.
Порнография, котор я могу объяснить.
MDn = лысого в кулаке гонять!
Taking pride in hacking into others computers while waving the banner of glory, success and the pitiful capitalism. I would rather have my child grow up watching pornography than learn these warped social values.
The pornography I can explain.
Confused:
try doing putting this: (a href=”http://www.domainname.com”)link text(/a)
just replace the () with <>.
Cpt. Obvious–
Thanks. I feel like such a goon. I now realize what I did wrong… I left out the closing </a> tag! Doh! 😮
Anyway, check this out:
<href=”
“>MDN Screenshot</a>
That is how I see the web.
<href=”
“>Here is a full-size sample.</a>
Wow… You’ll have to forgive me. I’m used to php forums.
<href=”
“>MDN Screenshot</a>
That is how I see the web.
<href=”
“>Here is a full-size sample.</a>
Now I really look like a fool…
That is how I see the web.
This time it should work for sure…
Yay!
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”LOL” style=”border:0;” />
Complain and bitch all you want MDN. We are your customers, and the pop unders suck.
Other Mac sites can make money without them. Stop your complaining, serve your customers, and stop the pop-unders.
I like MDN, but no more excuses. Serve your customer base.
I also get more than one a day. I also have dropped from visiting several times a day to a few times a week. I surf a lot of sites and MDN is one of 2 that give me popunders. Everyother site seems to be doing ok with the popunders.
sorry:
Every other site seems to be doing ok without the popunders.
I Hate PopSocks. Popunders I can live with.
If it’s any consolation to mdn, I recently followed a link from this site to Crucial Memory to purchase 1GB of Ram, which travelled from the US (Idaho I think) to Adelaide Australia in about 4 days.
Pop unders? What Pop UNDERs? I get Pop OVERS…..every day, regular as clockwork.