“For the love of God, it doesn’t even come with a keyboard or mouse. You have just got to be kidding me. This just might turn out to be the darkest day in Macintosh history. And yeah, I’m as aware as anyone just what a bloody history it’s been. But this, I think, might top all of it,” Bill Palmer writes for billpalmer.net.
“Let me get one thing out of the way right off the bat. A bad idea deserves to be exposed for what it is, and that’s exactly what I’ve been doing for the past week. Those who spend years spreading around a bad idea deserve to be called out for it, so no apologies for anyone who needed to be put in their place in the process. And most of all, a company that bets its future on a bad idea deserves to slammed in the manner that I’m about to do now,” Palmer writes.
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: If you remember, Bill was the guy who “gave the headless iMac rumor a zero percent chance of being true” last Saturday. So, Bill had clearly staked out his limb and now it seems he’s trying to defy gravity by clinging to said now-treeless limb. We like Bill. We like reading Bill, even though it takes a loooong time to get through some of his pieces. (Hire an editor, Bill, will ya?)
Still, what Bill’s trying to do with his article is a nice try at hovering in midair, but he puts way too much emphasis on the prospective Windows Switchers’ displeasure at learning they may have to buy a new keyboard and mouse for $48 bucks extra. We will point out that we agree that it would be nice if Apple did have a cheapo monitor somewhere in the store to sell to the Mac mini buyers. Having the lowest-priced monitor at $999 and leaving your salespeople with no other option than to send people upstairs to the mall’s Best Buy (actually happened to us at an Apple Store in the past) to find a monitor priced accordingly for a $499 computer isn’t probably the best idea. Yes, we realize that Mac mini buyers are supposed to be using their cheeseball Dell or Gateway CRT monitor and, theoretically, their Windows-key laden USB keyboards (if they even have USB keyboards), but that’s in a perfect world, which, if you haven’t noticed, isn’t the world in which we live. Palmer was wrong about there being no $499 Mac. We think he’s wrong about the Mac mini being “groundbreakingly stupid,” too. Palmer’s article goes on forever, but it’s a fun read, if only to see Bill trying to twist free from the straightjacket in which he dressed himself and for some valid points strewn throughout his article, too.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Apple finally stops overreaching for ‘switchers’ and goes for ‘adders’ instead – January 12, 2005
Bill Palmer: ‘Headless Mac’ a phony rumor that doesn’t exist – January 08, 2005
I think I heard that one of the online Mac retail sites was giving away a keyboard and mouse if you bought the Mac mini.
hey Bill….
It aint stupid… if it sells like hotcakes….
Which it will !!
I was never out on a limb, certainly not when you consider that none of the pudits who have been “guaranteeing” a headless iMac for the past five MacWorlds were out on a limb when it turned out not to be true time and time again. My arguments made sense, Apple’s actions didn’t, that’s no sweat off my reputation.
And for the record, I could care less about being right or wrong, and I can’t tell you how much I hope I AM wrong about this thing doing far more damage to the Mac product line than good. But sadly, I don’t think I am.
To fellow Mac users in the know: what are the possibilities for a monitor for the new Mac? Prices? It would seem a good idea for apple to perhaps offer a bundle with a CRT or flatscreen (nothing that will knock your pants off or anything…) Cheers…
Sounds like all the airheads in modern talk radio. They have an opinion and no matter what fact refute it they feel they must maintain their stance out of spite.
Brought to you by “feet”. As in Bill’s should be wearing some concrete shoes.
Among its many purposes it that of a PC accessory. From the Apple Website;
“Set a space-saving Mac mini atop your workstation PC and add a KVM switch to share keyboard, monitor and mouse.”
Sorry Bob. it is brilliant – you just need to learn to Think Different.
I wasn’t sold on the idea either, but I’m willing to admit how wrong I was. And I’ll prove it by buying one! Bill needs to get over it. The only thing he loves more than Apple is his own opinion of how the place should be run.
Brought to you by the magic word: lived, as in, “You haven’t LIVED until you’ve made a mistake, ‘fess up Bill.”
Bill could save on the cost of having an editor, he could share with Tera (Mac360)
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
With the greatest possible respect, a groundbreakingly stupid, terrible idea would be Napoleon thinking “Let’s invade Russia – sure, it’s a little cold, but we could get some winter sports in on the way”.
Another groundbreakingly stupid, terrible idea would be Abraham Lincoln saying to Mrs. Lincoln “How do you feel about a night at the theatre”.
But, in the annals of groundbreakingly stupid, terrible ideas, nothing beats the time around 40 years ago when Mr. Thurrott suggested an early night to Mrs. Thurrott. Now that’s something that makes me wish that time travel was possible�
Bill, just stare at the ad below your post for awhile…maybe reality will sink in.
This was a great day for Apple. It seems that Steve Jobs and Apple are not doomed to make the same mistakes that they made with the original Mac – which, let’s face it – can be largely attributed to hubris. They believed that simply being ahead of the pack and having a great product would win the day – and they were almost swept away.
For a man like Jobs to recalibrate his vision with the facts he has gathered, often the hard way, and come through like he did yesterday is nothing short of astounding.
I can’t think of a single Machead who would pass on the next high-end gadget to buy the cheapest thing at the Apple Store (likely they will add it to thir collection – or like me find some way to make it a delightful gift to a PC friend or family member), but I have already talked to some PC colleagues who may bite for the first time due the Mini. This was a home run of the highest order.
I think the little maker of the keyboard/monitor switches better start hiring more people!
Wasn’t Bill also one of the morons who predicted that the iPOD Mini would be a dismal failure?
You would think that these clueless bozos would be humbled by their gross errors with past predictions, but I guess when it comes down to it, the ignorant are just too damned ignorant to learn from past mistakes.
Who Da Fawk is Bill Palmer, and why should we care…..
Where is the guy who just won’t shut up?
Turdrott, you out there?
Ahhh maybe the Tsunami got him.
Damn.
MacMall is offering a free keyboard and mouse with every Mac mini. Many people have purchased more then one computer in their lifetime. Some even have an old display and keyboard lying around as well as a mouse. Otherwise go out and buy them for less then $50.00. 17″ LCD dusplays are available for $175. The mini is certainly not going to beat the pants off Dell or HP/Compaq on price. It’s not really for the Wal-Mart crowd. It’s for savvy PC users who are tired of viruses, malware, blue screen and all the baggage that comes with Windows. You can’t beat the bundled software nor the small footprint of the mini. I think it has a good chance for business use as well. Apple is NEVER gonig to get back to the 25% market share. Too many intrenched Windows users. What they can do is possibly add a few percentage points. That will bring some increase in earnings. I’m afraid, however, that the mini is not going to provide the 25%-27% margin Apple makes on their other computers. In the end, they cannot and should not sell a $500 computer with screen, keyboard, mouse, etc. It would cut their margins to the 5% that Dell makes. It would be suicide. Dell must continue to keep market share high to overcome their low margins.
As has been asked many times before: Who the hell is Bill Palmer and why do I care about his hack-ish web log?
magic word: thus
Has anyone heard reaction from companies like MacMice and MacAlly about the Mac mini? You’d think they’d be in heaven, because these machines will mean mucho sales increases for them!
There’s been a long running “headless” Mac thread at Ars. Those against are eating crow graciously. Maybe Bill could get in touch with Rudy and see how it’s done.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
I wasn’t a big fan either and really didn’t think they would do it but now that I see it, Wow. And after reading a bunch of threads, there are going to be peripherals coming out the waazoo. The geeks are going to be coming up with all kinds of nifty things. They’ve already discovered that it will fit in the radio space of a car. Imagine the possibilities.
I want a module that sits below the Mini that has a large hard drive and PVR software, the next generation TiVo.
I was behind you all the way when you seemed to be jumping on the live grenade of the $500 rumor that might just be dead wrong and make Apple look like fools.
Now it looks like Apple released the rumor to create the hype.
This is not about pissing poeple off, it’s about marketing. A variation of the old bait and switch. $500, I want one. OK, I need that, add it to the list.
Think of the VAR’s and how they will finally make some money by adding not only RAM but keyboards, 3 button mice and cheap monitors. This is not about Apple Stores this is about the online retailers, the mom and pop shops and the Best Buys. They all can add on high profit extras just like Dell. The sheep get their cheap computer at a higher price, just like always, but now it’s not just another Dell or Gateway, it could be a Mac.
Everyone is missing the point. Steve Jobs mentioned that this would be the year of HD. Also, did anyone capture the fact that the Mac mini can be hooked up to a TV. The Apple website also claims you can buy a wireless keyboard…
Can’t you read between the lines?! The Mac mini works on multiple levels:
1) Switchers
2) Entertainment center computer (granted, the graphics card is a little weak, but if you pop in a DVD you can still watch it on the TV, browse the internet, edit movies in HD with iMovie, and burn DVDs with iDVD) NOTE: I wonder if I can watch satellite TV and have the Mac mini in PIP (picture in picture). AWESOME!
3) Current Mac owners who want to add another computer in their home without investing in a PowerMac.
Didn’t Steve also claim that they are backing Blu-Ray? In the next iteration of Mac mini, you will see the arrival of a true media center Mac. Let the global domination begin!
If a user wants a cheap Mac with a keyboard, monitor, and mouse, buy an eMac. If a user wants a cheap Mac and doesn’t need a keyboard, monitor, and mouse because they already have it on their PeeCee, save a few dollars and buy a MacMini. Apple’s got all the bases covered.
Is this dude for real? What a moron!
Bill nobody cares what you think, some people are just born to blather I guess.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”cheese” style=”border:0;” />
I have to admit that I share some of Bill’s scepticism (if not his vitriol). I’m not sure exactly who this machine is aimed at — the low-end switcher? The eMac, with its out-of-the-box usability and comparable performance stats, seems the better choice. While there may be a few switchers who have been resisting because they still have their own monitors/keyboards/mice with which they don’t want to part, I honestly can’t see this as a really significant population.
If you have cheapo accessories, it seems to me that either (a) you don’t care that much about your computer and you’re likely to either keep on using your Wintel machine until, or (b) you want to upgrade your accessories anyway.
If, on the other hand, you have really expensive accessories, then you probably will care enough about your computing environment that you want something a little higher-end than the G4 in a Mac mini.
I hope I’m wrong — I’d love the Mac mini to become a hit and to see it embed itself in the popular consciousness in the same way the iPod has.
Where I think this is most likely to happen is if this product taps into, not the traditional computer market, but people who are going to use the computer almost exclusively as an entertainment hub that they plug into a HD flat-screen TV and can carry around with them to other people’s houses. Instead of a computer, think of it as a portable digital hub system — just add speakers and a TV (which most people already have) and you have instant home theatre that happens to be able to get content off the internet (and lets you do word processing, too).
If the Mac mini succeeds, it won’t be as a computer in the traditional sense. It will be as a new centre of an audio-visual system.
It will be very interesting to see how this is going to be marketed … as a computer, the Mac mini is simply the Cube Part II. As a digital hub, this could be something else entirely, and might really catch on.
Isn’t this aimed at people who already have a Windows machine and are looking for a way to escape and jump onto the Mac bandwagon?
Why should they have to buy a machine which has a monitor attached when they have a decent sized display that they bought when they got their last PC. Dump the PC and just keep the monitor.
If they have that, then why can’t they use their PC keyboard and mouse? Most people dump the mice that comes with their computer after some time and usually get a new keyboard eventually.
Its a good alternative for someone who doesn’t need anything but the machine… I get it…I understand why keyboards and mice aren’t bundled.
Sincerely,
Christopher Powers
We will point out that we agree that it would be nice if Apple did have a cheapo monitor somewhere in the store to sell to the Mac mini buyers. Having the lowest-priced monitor at $999 and leaving your salespeople with no other option than to send people upstairs to the mall’s Best Buy (actually happened to us at an Apple Store in the past) to find a monitor priced accordingly for a $499 computer isn’t probably the best idea
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
————-
BZZZZZZZZZT!!!.. I’m not buying it.. well, the MDN take that is..
If you don’t have a mouse, keyboard, etc GET AN EMAC! It’s a terrific value and it will come with better software and I/O ports than this Mac mini…
Of course, if you’re in the MIDDLE of your PC’s life (you know.. had it for a month lmfao) then you have perfectly good accesories.
The eMac/iMac is perfect for switchers every 3 or so years…
The Mac mini is the switch machine for every day in between..
Get it? Absolutely huge how much more effective this will be than the eMac..
PS. The online stores have lots of monitors.. and it’s likely that Apple Stores will start selling cheaper flatscreens (non-Apple) because that’s what’s gonna be on the Demo versions.. get it? It’ll be a nice slick Samsung and the PC user will say “I like this one.. do you have this one?” “Sure we have a bunch in the back, it’s $300 for the 17 inch is that good?”
It’s AAAAAALLL GOOD
Bill makes one (and, AFAICT, only one) valid point: Someone going into the Apple Store to buy a Mac system should be able to buy an ENTIRE Mac system without going elsewhere.
Apple needs a low-end display to potentially go along with the Mac mini. Having seen 15″ displays from other manufacturers for around $200, one would think that Apple might be able to come out with one for about that price.
So, at $499 for the Mac mini, $58 for the keyboard/mouse and $199 for the 15″ display, we’re looking at $756 for the whole thing. Make it a bundle for $749, and we have something that will finally rid us of the problem-ridden eMac, and yet give those switchers who WANT to use their old stuff the opportunity to do so.
Magic word: for, as in “For pete’s sake, who is Bill Palmer?”
It’s a smoke screen! Instead of admitting his zero percent chance was dead wrong he’s claiming last week was unimportant. Don’t forget the groundbreakingly stupid, terrible idea comes with firewire & iLife, but does not come with a filing cabinet.
A few days ago I said Apple needs to address the two button mouse issue that windows users like. When you click to purchase the Mac Mini on Apple.com you are taken to a page asking you if you would like to purchase a keyboard and mouse. There you are giving a choice of Apples (wire/wireless) selection as well as a large variety of 3 button mice and keyboards from other vendors.
It works for me.
$175 for a flat panel? Bah. Spend the $30 for the composite video out, and hook the mo-fo right up to your television.
Having no keyboard and no mouse makes the box smaller and easier to just carry out the door. A great idea.
One phrase sums up this guys delusional rantings “Diarrhea of the mouth.”
If you really want to keep your PeeCee PS/2 gear, get an USB->PS/2 adapter for some $30 or so (should have been included in the Mini Mac kit together with the DVI->VGA converter)
1) Disaffected domestic WIndows users: had enough of spyware, malware and viruses, but they have a small LCD or CRT screen as all they do is pick up e-mail, do some surfing, manage their digital photo collection or their digital music collection. [B]SOLD![/B]
2) Company wageslaves: only have a company-supplied laptop that’s locked down and can’t install iTunes/QuickTime. Know enough about WIndows to know it’s a pain in the ass. Alternatively, only have a desktop at work and can’t use their iPod effectively! [B]SOLD![/B]
3) School boards that got sold a crock of shit by Dull or someone else in the past. Also had enough of spyware, malware and viruses or the administration needed to keep them at bay. Got a shedload of CRTs though! [B]SOLD![/B]
4) Small businesses. Also had enough of spyware, malware and viruses or the administration needed to keep them at bay. Already got a flat-panel! [B]SOLD![/B]
5) You’re about to set up a medium-sized business. Go price up: Mac mini + MS Office + 15″ (1024 x 768) TFT panel. xServe + a tape drive. Now go do the same thing with MS Small Business Server. [B]SOLD![/B]
Thank you and goodnight�
I think Jobs is onto something. I am so frustrated by my Windows XP machine I decided a while ago to save up for a Mac. And yesterday I hear that Apple will sell me one for $599? Deal!
(But I use a tablet, not a mouse. I don’t need a new mouse anyway.)
Do not listen to me… I am a looser. ipod mini is not selling. The itunes is not #1… Realnetwork’s marketing is supurb
Apple should sell two packages alongside the mac mini, like the iPod Accesories.
1. “mac mini” mouse&keyboard; for 49,-
2. “mac mini” 17″LCD&mouse;&keyboard; for 399,-.
design the packages all in the same way as the mac mini package.
so when someone asks for it in the store. it is all there and affordable. if you already have it, just buy the mini.
To all those bitching about the terribly high cost of having to buy a new USB keyboard and new USB mouse in order to use the mini-mac, may I present this:
PS2-USB adapter
There are literally thousand and thousands of older PS2 keyboards and mice in closets and junk heaps and second hand stores – there is no reason why a mini-mac plus an additional investment of $2 or $3 (and your old monitor from the closet) can’t get you a fully-functioning setup.
I’m glad Apple isn’t selling a cheap monitor to go with the Mac Mini. Let me count the reasons why:
1. Apple doesn’t do cheap monitors well. Anybody remember the 17 inch CRT that came with the B/W G3 and early G4s? Crap. They broke.
2. Apple can’t compete pricewise with the likes of Samsung and their ilk. Apple doesn’t have the economy of scale.
3. Many potential switchers already have monitors (currently connected to some spyware-laden Wintel boat anchor).
4. There are plenty of old monitors out there not connected to anything. Why send them to the landfill?
I’m really glad Apple came out with this product. I’ve been hoping for something like it for years.
Guys!!Guys!!Guys!!! Again, just like Turd-rot and the Dork, another idiot writer desperate for Internet hits!!!! Don’t fall for this kind of tricks anymore!!!! Don’t insult your intelligence by responding!!! Move on!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31534&item=5155609912&rd=1
Never mind, somebody already grabbed it!
I’ve been lurking around boards and reading people’s reactions to the Mac Mini or Mini Mac or whatever we’ve decided to name it. However, some people ask the question, who is this computer aimed at?
Well, it’s not for me. As a long time Mac user, it’s not expandable enough for my video work nor does it have the raw horse power to make me happy when working with Photoshop.
Then who is it for? The Wal-Mart shopper who purchased an HP but is unhappy with it? Probably not. Apple will never sale their machines in Wal-Mart, but wouldn’t it be nice if they did in Target? Target carries a number of keyboards and mice anyway. All they need is to carry a couple monitors, CRT and LCD alike.
So we have the Target shopper who cannot stand Wal-Mart for whatever reason.
I know one group who it is designed for: My graphic design students! For years, my students have slobbered themselves silly wanting a Mac for their classwork. While our G5 labs provide a world-class instructional experience, many of them do not have the cash to purchase an iMac G5 or a PowerMac G5. So what do I tell them? Purchase a used Mac instead.
Now, I no longer have to tell them that. Purchase a Mac Mini instead. Sure it’s not a G5, but by golly it’s a nice little machine and purchase it with a truck-load of RAM and you’re off.
Many of my students lament they hate Windows and using Photoshop and Illustrator as well as the Macromedia products are like doing needle work with a jack hammer. They love the MacOS! They love the ability of concentraing on their work rather than on the computer and its ability to fail. They love not getting a virus and spyware.
Apple has a hit, I believe, with what I call the “starving student” who wants an inexpensive Mac, but could never afford one up until now.
Ok Steve, one last request – get that Mac Mini at Target!
MTS.
Spfld, IL.
Honestly – who the fsck is Bill Palmer and WHY should we care one bit what he thinks?
I just finished reading his blog entry and it is obvious that he is a dipshit and doens’t have a creative bone in his body.
And that is probably why Steve Jobs is a multi-millionaire and Bill Palmer is just some lonely blogger.
I don’t know enough about where the ATI graphics card stands in comparison to others, but seems like this might make a pretty good gaming machine for most of the games out now. Wonder if the graphics card is upgradable? I could see me adding this machine to my G4 700 with a small KVM switch; plus I bet its a lot quiter than my G4 with all those fans!
I think Apple has a hit on their hands. (And I promise to admit it if I wrong
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”cheese” style=”border:0;” /> )
DaddySteve,
yeah right.
Before the ‘Mini’ came out, I wrote in one of the threads in MDN that someone was probably going to have a red face after the Keynote. Well, that was pretty naive of me, and I should have known better.
Being the dogmatic ranter he is, this man hasn’t a modicum of humility. On the contrary. Instead of apologizing to those he insulted, his ranting has even gone up a pitch.
And even if this computer is a huge success, he won’t change his tune.
A week ago he was implying that anybody who believed in this computer was stupid.
Now it’s come, he considers Apple to be stupid, because it won’t sell.
If it’s a huge success, he’ll consider the people who buy it to be stupid.
There’s only one person he NEVER considers to be stupid however many stupid mistakes that person makes.
I just do not understand MDN’s friendly, if somewhat condescending, remarks concerning B.P.
He makes Thurott and Dvorak look like paragons of common-sense.
Putting this in perspective, wasn’t there a great disturbance in the PC marketplace when Apple “killed” the floppy disk? (Having defied conventional wisdom and bypassed the 5.25″ floppy altogether).
It looks to me that Apple is once again “leading the market”, even if the balance of manufacturers haven’t seen the handwriting on the wall.
Who wants a cheapo keyboard to go with their cut-rate cpu? Sure, you can get a PC for $399 with monitor and keyboard, but can you really enjoy the “experience” of typing on a keyboard that cost the manufacturer $1.67 (not to mention your “viewing pleasure”)?
Once again, this is a marketing decision that restores CHOICE to the end user. And will be fully embraced by the majority of buyers.
Well, he’s entitled to his opinion, but he should also face it that his opinion is in the vast minority. I do believe Steve Jobs knows a thing or two about running Apple and if he thinks it’s a good idea, then it’s his credibility that is at stake here, not some web blogger’s….
That being said, I already know 3 people who have switched in the last day as a result of this release, so there is no way that it’s a “groundbreakingly stupid, terrible idea.”
Congratulations to Bill Palmer on being proved hugely incorrect on no less than two of 2005’s biggest news stories (this and iPod sales)! Now go away.
My spin on the lack of keyboard and mouse is perhaps less the cost and more the packaging. How do you package a macmini to highlight it’s diminutive size? Certainly not with a box to hold both that, keyboard and mouse.
Further, I am in agreement that this will be well received by resellers trying to make some better margins on peripherals.
Bill.. you just saved 100 more bucks.. it starts at 499 not 599
Bill Palmer is not the smartest cookie in the pan. If he had bothered to do the most basic research, like say, going to the Apple Store web site and configuring a Mac mini, he would have found that, lo and behold, the Mac mini DOES come with a keyboard and mouse (and even a display) you order it that way.
Or maybe Brainy Bill did check that out, but it was just be so damned revolutionary that he couldn’t comprehend it. Can you imagine, a computer product that lets YOU, the user, choose whether or not you want to buy a keyboard or mouse or display?
Bill Palmer does create an image of a very real and possibly PR-catastrophic scenario:
A low-end PC user looking for a sub-$500 Mac finds out how his current monitor/keyboard/mouse doesn’t work(being low-end is not USB), either before or after he leaves the store. Either, or, they guy comes away with a bate and switch-“er” bad taste in his mouth.
As for adapters: Don’t they defeat the purpose of the USB advantages?
The problem is not that the Mac mini is a bad product. It is not. The problem is how it ends up getting marketed. It’s not really a low-end machine. So if Apple implies that it is, a lot of disappointed potential switchers could very well make a lot of very ugly noise about “dishonest business practices”.
THAT is the last thing Apple needs right now.
Brought to you by the word “fine”, which tells you what a fine line Apple is walking in this sub-$500 neighborhood.
I want one & I just bought an iBook last month!
I got this email from a business client today who had never intended to get a Mac…
“So what do you think of the new LITTLE mac? I’m sorely tempted… the
price is right… It’s that or a dell laptop for $500. I’m tempted to
cross over”
That was the intention of the mini, and I think you will see it work, keyboard or not. Most PC people who have loved their iPod already have a USB keyboard and scrolling mouse, and a CRT monitor. Schools when upgrading will have CRTs and can now pay $500 or less and have a useful (but less attractive and more cabled) Mac.
Those buying an iPod can pay just about double the 40GB iPod and have a Mac!
I once thought a cheap Mac a silly idea, but think Jobs and crew nailed this one.
had Apple included the keyboard and mouse, these same analysts would criticize Apple for forcing the user to pay for accessories they don’t need or want. And it seems like they don’t get angry when Dell and Gateway offer the same thing: a low-priced computer without the extras that you may not need or want.
Whatever Apple decides to do, these critics will respond with the same negative attitude.
Amazing, even the Battlefront at Ars is generally liking the MacMini. Even they know more then BP
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
People who plop down $399 and up for an iPod are going to have no problem paying $499 for a Mac.
There was a ton of traffic at Apple’s store site yesterday that at times you couldn’t even get in. My guess is this traffic wasn’t just for the new iPod or software. Granted it may have been largely Mac heads clamoring for a cheap upgraded Mac or second Mac, but I’m willing to bet there are a good number of savvy switchers out there too. Bill has some interesting points, but I believe the Mac mini will sell well.
Hey, here’s one more data point proving exactly the kind of thinking we’re talking about, for the kind of user that the mini is targeted at:
http://www.pvponline.com/
PvP (Player vs. Player) is a popular web comic about a fictional gaming magazine. The IT coordinator of the magazine in the strip is a steretypical teenage l33t gamer who thinks macs are toys. But the magazines graphics director, the “Brent Sienna” character, is naturally a Mac user, constantly getting in fights with the IT kid.
A while back the comic’s author, Scott Kurtz, had inidcated that many people had suggested he switch to Mac, especially when in his mini-blog below the comic he would mention some PC related problem. Not having the $$, for a while he put up a donation link so Mac evangelists among his readership could send a few bucks which he could use to try a Mac. Read the top entry on his news post today, which mentions this. It’s exactly the kind of switch rationale we’ve been talking about. (Made sweeter for Scott because it’s funded by reader donations, including enough to load up a mini with more RAM and a Superdrive!)
“And most of all, a company that bets its future on a bad idea deserves to slammed in the manner that I’m about to do now,” Palmer writes.
you think Apple is basing it’s futre on the Mini Mac? you gotta be kidding me… it’s just another product offer.
geez
Did anyone notice that the TV display on the Mini page of Apple’s site is a Samsung HLN567 DLP (digital light processor) HDTV? If the Mini can output a 1280 x 720P signal they ought to be a great hit with the A/V crowd–me included.
I have liked reading Bill’s stuff in the past but he went a little overboard on this. He is certainly entitled to have his opinion but also does not need to inject the bile that he does. It sounded above like he is maybe starting to calm down again and get a little perspective. I certainly hope so because articles like the one he wrote serve nobody, least of all himself.
The mac mini is Apples spin to the “OS X on intel” and “headless iMac” cry.
Now the unwashed masses can run OS X along side their Wintel setup for a little more $$ than XP pro! They’ll eXPerience how nice OS X is integrated with it’s hardware and may even wake up and smell the Unix.
Also, I’m sure am tired of hearing complaints about macs being too expensive, shipping w/o a 2 button mouse and with a “crappy keyboard”! Now STFU and bring your own! 😎
I read the following in another article:
“It�s hard for people to envision a world where Apple and Microsoft are�t going at it like cats and dogs…”
Methinks, it should be more like “cats(tiger) and cows(longhorn)”
I visualize a Tiger munching on an freshly-killed, emaciated steer.
Here’s hoping that Apple will finally bring out the claws with Tiger and start pushing OS X like those iPods!
Go AAPL!
Sigh. I really had hoped Bill would have more class than this. I’d enjoyed his site in the past, but one issue I thought he was dead wrong about was the headless Mac.
His whole argument seemed to center around the idea that almost all switchers would have to replace their monitors anyway. He had this vision of all PC switchers having old, crappy, malfunctioning monitors.
But that’s ridiculous! Of all the components that come with a computer, probably nothing lasts longer than the monitor! My monitor is a 15″ Sony Trinitron, purchased in 1997 for what would be my last PC. Yeah, it’s obsolete, but it still works flawlessly, looks gorgeous, and I have no desire to replace it.
For every idiot who gets mad that a keyboard and mouse doesn’t come with the Mac mini there will a hundred who would buy it and leave the Dell box in the garbage can.
I think that the magic formula that has sold so many iPods (at what can seem to be ludicrous prices) is that, quite simply, logic does not always apply.
Not unlike at election time, politicians are all too aware that an uninformed vote is every bit as valuable as a carefully considered, rational choice. Playing to people’s ignorances can be highly profitable.
Maybe Bill is right and the Mac mini doesn’t make sense, but that doesn’t mean it might not be a roaring success. Many logical, rational and sane arguments exist against the purchase of an iPod, and yet…
I’ve often wondered if Apple really knows why the iPod is so successful. They seem to be taking very few chances with changing it from it’s award-winning offering…can’t risk harming the goose that lays the golden eggs, no matter how much one might like to take it apart to apply its magic to other things.
Here is what I wrote to Bill Palmer.
Mr. Palmer,
Wow. I think you are wrong because your premise is so wrong on such a fundamental level. Any salesman worth a cup of coffee would not knowingly put himself in the position you describe. If I was the sales manager for that salesman a saw that happening then retraining is in order. If it continued to happen, then that salesman would be gone.
I make these comments based on years of sales experience in this industry. I have sold thousands of computers and trained numerous sales and service people.
I don’t take exception to you having an opinion but I do believe your scenario is flawed from the start.
How would I handle it? Well the Mac Mini in the store would be connected to a monitor, keyboard and mouse purchased at the local Wal-Mart. I would even have the receipt as part of the materials available to show the true cost of the system.
Now your confusing and unreal scenario reflects the true cost of ownership.
Oscar
Bill is a moron. No, wait. Groundbreakingly stupid! Yeah, that’s it.
*rolls eyes*
you know…i really hate reading long ramblings of recently annoucned products..but’s Bill’s was one I had to read and felt compelled to respond back..so here’s my two cents…Bill states that this Mac mini is a colossal
mistake..he gives scenerios that are just flat out ridiculous..and accusses Apple of becoming a fraudulent company..He gives you all these examples as to why Mac mini will fail and not only that drag Apple’s rep down..What he fails to mention that this little train that can, has a world class OS. “Panther” and soon “Tiger”…..Rather than pointing out the fact that you have a Class Act OS and that the stripped down hardware will use it to it’s potential , he acts as if it doesn’t exist..He never mentions, OS X , iLife 05, etc..In his ramblings he might aswell, just as said, “and this POS comes with Windows ME”..Anyways, I haven’t formed my feeling about this..other than to say, that so far I like the idea..my fiance’s mother, who hasn’t much money — is already eyeing this thing…I have a extra CRT , keyboard and mouse ..All she needs is $499 and she is in a world class OS…something not even a $4000 Windows machine can do.
Gosh I hate ignorant people.
“he gives scenerios that are just flat out ridiculous..and accusses Apple of becoming a fraudulent company..”
Exactly right Wolfie. I have done computer sales, sales management and sales training and the scenario is ridiculous. As a matter of fact it could for the basis of a lesson in any sales class, not the real world.
Whether or not the Mac mini succeeds or fails, I believe Bill has missed the most important point � it heralds a fundamental mind shift at Apple. If, for any reason it doesn�t hit the mark dead on, Apple will refine the product until it does. The important thing is that they are now set on doing whatever it takes to draw more users into the Mac fold.
Now, Bill argues that the mini is so far off the mark that it stands to alienate all would be switchers and Apple is therefore doomed. For me this is where he losses all credibility. The mini, while not perfect for all applications and users, is simply not that bad.
Bill’s rant is like passing a car wreck on the highway.
Let’s just look the other way and hope for the best.
Bill is young. He will learn from his mistakes. He will also learn to edit his ramblings.
Learning that every word is not gold hurts much more than learning you are colossally wrong on any given topic.
Sounds like Bill Palmer is mad because his rebuttal to the Mac mini was INCORRECT!
Way to go MDN. Expose the guy for what he is. Loud and self absorbed.
It’s one thing to be a critic with analysis skills and credibility. It’s something entirely different to only know how to rant and do nothing else.
Alex said the same thing here.
http://www.mac360.com/index.php/mac360/more/mac_predictions_opinions_crow_eating_time/
Ditto.
At $500 how can this NOT do well. Instead of buying an eMac as an extra or a gift to a relative who’s tired of suffering through Wintels problems, I’ll probably buy three.
Oh, I checked on the Apple Store. The SuperDrive is a $100 BTO extra. In fact, you can add pretty much whatever you want to the box, but with 512 megs RAM, the Mac mini makes an excellent “anything-else-you-want-a-Mac” to do machine.
How can Bill not see that? Because, fellow Mac folks, sometimes people write things just to get a reaction. MDN is exposing Bill for what he is– worse than John Dvorak. There. You heard it from me first.
Most of the posters on this nailed it just as did MDN. If the average “cost**” of an iPod is about $400, what’s the value of a whole Mac for $499?
Tera Patrick
Mac360
** Figuring an average iPod sells for $299 (includes mini and more expensive models) and users pile on $100 of addition goodies in leather cases, accessories, et al.
When you swear to the world there will be no ‘headless imac’, then one appears, ofcourse you’ll go on an ‘idiot box’ rant. Right now Bill cant see the forest for the trees.
Apple havent offered any ‘cheap’ monitors in years, for sure. What they are offering with the mini is an opportunity for Mac, Windows and new users to mix and match according to their budget. PC users are already acustomed to that.
Also, jumping to another OS would be a huge step for some people, so this is Apples way of providing another another hook to get Windows and new users familiar with the benefits of OSX.
An example of one of the problems of the internet
Just because anyone can publish they do.
Its got decent video, resonable memory options, not sure about sound, and it’s cheap! There’s so much old computer garbage floating around that buying a new keyboard, and mouse is probably stupid anyway. So, yes it should sell. Mind you, having a low end CRT in the stores for those who need them. might be a good idea.
Normally, Bill is right on target but in the case, I’ll have to respectfully disagree,
The MAC MINI will be enticing to several current non-Mac user target markets:
a) Mindshare – just like the switcher campaign. When your “opponents” have been IBM (until 2001), Intel, Microsoft, Sony, Compaq, Dell, Toshiba, HP and many, many others – it takes a while to move he needle back. From 1986, those indifferent or biased against the Mac grew up on the following messages sold by Apple�s competitors: (in sequence) “hippies, not IBM – a toy, not a business machine, not Microsoft, too slow, too expensive, almost out of business and (back to) too expensive.” That’s a LOT of weight to move against (even if it’s all perception). Most of all the perceptions have been lessened, mitigated or forgotten except the one about price. So, this clears the final hurdle. Apple as usual will get about $100 million dollars of free PR and ads in establishing there’s a $499 machine at Apple.
$499 is a mythical and magical number.
On the PC side, there are in theory – $499 machines but I’ve personally gone through the Dell popup menu choices and while you can get a PC that cheaply, if you’re going to actually break down and get a computer, why settle for a 10GB HHD when for $100 more, you can get an 80 GB HHD and so once you go through the line items, it rapidly becomes a $1,300 computer and that’s NOT counting anti-virus software or that even if had thousands of dollars, there is nothing like ILIFE on the PC side.
So, you might call it bait and switch-like and we could argue that philosophically, or ethically but that’s not really the point – in certainly businesses like cars and PC’s – that’s just the way things are done.
And I would argue that the MAC MINI is a much more useful computer than most PC’s I’ve seen at $499 (honestly, with a 10 GB HDD, after you load XP, how much room is really left?). OSX only takes a couple GB’s so you still have 25+ GB’s left on HDD and I know people who operate their current eMac fine with 256 MB of RAM.
So, they first step is mindshare. The $499 eliminates the last artificial barrier.
b) The budget shopper � this is a person who values thrift above all else. So, they probably have a USB keyboard and mouse and they probably got a $59 VGA monitor they bought from a dotcom collapse. They just need to plug it all and reboot. They are ready to go. If they need a keyboard and mouse, for less than $20 dollars, you can get both and you can get a cheap VGA monitor for less than $100 dollars and even a LCD for less than $200. Done.
c) The options shopper. The MAC MINI gives you a wide range of options for people who prefer to buy a cheaper car and trick it out like the Neon is a cheap econo box car or you can option it out to a SRT-4 turbo charged. Like the budget shopper, you can be ready to go for as little as $650. And in some ways, it�s good to not have an Apple keyboard/mouse that�s �wasted,� like when I went wireless, I now have an extra wired keyboard & mouse so with a MAC MINI, I can go cheap – $20 for a USB keyboard & mouse, go Apple at $60, go wireless, go ergo, trackball, tablet, etc � I have a full range of costs and choices without feeling like I�m paying for a keyboard or mouse I may have to pack away.
Exact options with the monitor � CRT, LCD, off brand, color calibrated, buy it used, etc…. In fact, you can go even larger than the IMAC, which tops out at 20�.
This �open range� of choices satisfies many PC users who are used to components breaking so they want to be able to feel they can replace that piece and keep cranking. That�s why no one wants to buy an �all-in-one PC and they were afraid to buy an all-in-one Mac and the only real desktop choices always being the high end G3/G4/ G5.
Again, some of it is perception. The illusion is that they are in control and they get to pick and choose when in reality, 80% of these �options shoppers� are really just looking for a bundle deal. Smart online stores will offer a bundle deal with options choices in some sort of grid format. Obviously in a store like CompUSA is all set up for those choices so everyone wins.
PART I
Part II
d) The Apple Store shopper.
For Apple stores, it�s also a win-win. Those that are just window shopping or savvy enough to know there are other monitor choices will be happy paying less elsewhere for a MAC MINI with another more monitor and input devices choices.
For those who are being sold in the stores, the new Apple monitors are just so gorgeous they are hard to resist. The Apple monitors are so elegant and give the allusion of �floating� that even the IMAC looks chunky next to it. For those who want that monitor to showcase/show off in their homes � the MAC MINI can easily be hidden away so all you have showing is a monitor and wireless components � why not � the 20� IMAC is $1,900. A MAC MINI with a 20� monitor is about $1,600 (or $1,800 for the high end + Superdrive model+ bluetooth + keyboard/mouse). Yes, the IMAC is a faster chip and faster throughout but that silver monitor is hard to resist � and frankly, 90% of users will not notice much of a difference between a G5 and a G4.
And remember, most PC users are used to their PC�s as commodities so the PC/CPU part is of little consequence to them as a decorative item in their home � but that Apple monitor on their desk (or even on their wall?!) It�s a showcase item! � or if you prefer, the best bling-bling for your wall you can get.
Now, I�m not saying that a lot of PC users are going to walk in looking for a $499 computer and walking out with a $1,800 system but unless they step in the door, the possibility now stands at ZERO. Once they�re in the door and odds-on treated with the usual Apple store service, that possibility increases.
OR if not the $1,800 MAC MINI 20� monitor bundle � perhaps the $1,300 or $1,500 IMAC all ready to go with everything included or even a $999 eMac (not sure how long they�ll be around) but they are IN THE DOOR.
The MAC MINI sells itself to a lot of disparate PC users from those who knows exactly what they want and have exactly $499 (+tax) to those who heard there was a nice bargain Mac, or at the store already for the IPOD and who knows, they may walk out with a lot more � to paraphrase the late, great Rodney Dangerfield, �Give me two of those, 3 of those, a bunch of those and hey, IPOD SHUFFLES for everyone!�
Al wrote: Think of the VAR’s and how they will finally make some money by adding not only RAM but keyboards, 3 button mice and cheap monitors. This is not about Apple Stores this is about the online retailers, the mom and pop shops and the Best Buys. They all can add on high profit extras just like Dell. The sheep get their cheap computer at a higher price, just like always, but now it’s not just another Dell or Gateway, it could be a Mac.
I couldn’t agree with you more. the Macmini is Apples way of satisfying the entry level as well has allowing 3rd party retailers make a profit. Kudo’s to Apple.
Bill really needs to switch to decaf!
Most everybody and his idiotic brother-in-law has a POS PC, w/keyboard and mouse and monitor included. The six-step switching scenario will unfold thusly. It is elegant, well thought out, and will occur (we hope) millions of times:
1) Mac Mini purchased and brought home to the den.
2) Beige box unplugged from peripherals and set aside.
3) Area around old tower cleaned, dust bunnies routed.
4) Mac Mini plugged in, connected to peripherals, and booted up.
5) User ecstatic. (“It works!”)
6) Beige box to trash.
Now, about that measly RAM….
I think the true appeal of the Mac mini is as a handy carrying case for iLife and OSX. Subtract the price of these programs and you get a computer for $291! It’s like packaging you can plug in.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
There are some things that have not gotten the attention they deserve, imnsho.
The first is the form factor. It’s pure genius of the designers: 6.5″ by 6.5″, what does that remind of of? Well, the average width of your run-of-the-mill ugly Wintel (mini-)tower of course! This Mac Mini will fit snugly but unobtrusively on top of it. Why is this important? Because I think that the Mac Mini will first and foremost be a huge success in businesses where these ugly beige boxes are mushrooming under or beside ever desk. Remember how the Apple II wriggled it’s way into corporations, bypassing the corporate IT (mainframe) guys? Okay, I just gave away that I am really ooooold, remembering this. Anyway, the same thing could happen with the Mac Mini (I really have to keep myself from calling it the “miniMac”). I for one will be buying one of those boxes myself and sneak it in through the backdoor to put it on my company-supplied ugly beige box. Nobody will notice it sitting there. If asked I can always pretend that it is a really fast CD-ROM reader/writer
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”cheese” style=”border:0;” />
The missing component to make this work is the second item that has gotten little attention so far, but the hint at it is there, right on Apple’s website and it’s pure genius again. Subliminal. It reads:
“Perfect for Programmers
Set a space-saving Mac mini atop your
workstation PC and add a KVM switch to
share keyboard, monitor and mouse.”
Why, it’s the KVM switch of course, and it is Perfect for a lot more people than just Programmers. What we need is a really low-cost (say US$49) keyboard-mouse-video-audio KVM switch especially made for this, Belkin will no doubt allready be working on it, others will follow. I’m surprised Apple doesn’t offer one themselves. May I suggest that they make it 6.5″ wide and 2″ high, so that if fits neatly behind the miniMac (there, I said it)? We need to keep some sense of esthetics in this ugly world after all…
2005 has started off in a great way!
Cheers to all, and sorry for Bill (Palmer).
WHY IS IT THAT NONE OF THESE ANALYISTS/PEOPLE REALISE WHAT THE MARKET FOR THE MAC MINI IS???
To confirm:
THE MAC MINI IS DESIGNED FOR WINDOWS USERS WHO HAVE A WINDOWS SYSTEM ALREADY.
ALL THEY DO IS PLUG THE MAC MINI INTO THEIR EXISTING MONITOR, KEYBOARD AND MOUSE!!
It is as simple as that!
Apple does not need to supply a keyboard and mouse as the market for this machine already have one!
Funny thing – at Bill Palmer’s site, he removed nearly all the feedback from his forum on this article. I remember one particular response that dissected his article almost line by line. I used to have respect for Bill, but now I can see what a sore loser he is. I’d never want to play a board game with him and win.
Same here ChrispyMac. I wrote him a very intelligent and non-argumentative response to his rant and have not received so much as a read receipt. It is sad when someone can’t admit when their wrong.
I just have to say… why is it that so many of these people don’t bother doing a little research. My first reaction when I heard that it didn’t come with a keyboard or mouse was also one of shock. But it really makes sense. And to say that someone cannot use their old PS/2 mouse and keyboard is a statement made of ignorance.
At Office Depot, the place that I currently work, we have for sale, a nifty little device that plugs into a USB port. At the opposite end of the device are two ports. Both are PS/2, one is for a keyboard and the other for a mouse. For a mere 20$. So, there you have it. Someone can, if they wish to, use their old keyboard and mouse for a measley 20$ more.
Now, in regards to the monitor situation. What makes him think they’d tell them that their only option is to buy a 999$ Apple Flat Panel Monitor? I have already heard tell of people being directed from Apple Stores to nearby non-Apple stores for a cheap 100-200$ CRT Flat Screen monitor. A good retail outfit knows that they must make their customers as happy as possible, even if it means directing them to someone that sells something they do not. Because then they’ll know that, even though the store may not sell the original product, at least the employees there are willing to direct them to a place that they can purchase the products they need.
Seems to me this fellow lacks any real work experience, or he would have been able to figure this all out on his own. What an idiot. Yet another shameful example of the deterioration of the human race.
We believe at Anonymous that there is a Bill Palmer making shill sites for Hillary that have fake member involvement. We would like more information on this Bill here.
We are just checking through registered Bill Palmers that fit the profile. Not implying anything.