“Analysts say Sony poses the biggest challenge yet to the iPod, although they add that Apple should still be up to the challenge of defending a market that has become a key part of the company’s overall success,” Benny Evangelista writes for The San Francisco Chronicle.
“‘We think this is the year Sony starts breathing down Apple’s neck in music,” said technology analyst Richard Doherty of the Envisioneering Group. ‘Customers who look to the iPod as the only advanced styling and fashion statement out there are going to take more than a second look at the Walkman.’ Sony made wearing headphones in public fashionable and introduced the concept of a purely personal stereo system that could be enjoyed anywhere, from the street to libraries to public transit. The Walkman line broadened into several generations of products that played tapes, the radio and CDs,” Evangelista writes.
“Apple’s marketing prowess pushed the iPod and the smaller iPod Mini past the Walkman to become pop culture’s new slick, cool portable music device. Apple, which had been solely a computer-maker, is now known as much for music. Its online iTunes Music Store has sold 95 million songs, and Apple has sold more than 2 million iPods,” Evangelista writes.
“Last week, Sony introduced a silver, 20-GB model called the Walkman NW- HD1. The player, due to hit store shelves in the United States and Japan in mid-August, will weigh about 4 ounces and cost about $400, the same price as the 5.6-ounce iPod with the same size hard drive. Sony officials also tout the NW-HD1’s 30-hour battery life, compared with eight hours for the iPod,” Evangelista writes.
“The new Walkmans and Pocket Players will tie in to Sony’s SonicStage music management program, which can play songs encoded in the popular MP3 and Windows Media formats on the computer. However, the program has to convert songs to Sony’s proprietary Atrac3 format, the only file type the portable players will support,” Evangelista writes. “‘Are they going to kill Apple? Absolutely not,’ said Van Baker, a vice president at research firm GartnerG2. ‘If Sony Connect is compared to iTunes, there ain’t no comparison. It’s hard to argue with Apple’s success. Right now, the business model is to use your music to sell your hardware.’
“Doherty said he believes Apple and Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs have ‘several things in the fire’ to keep Sony’s Walkman from outrunning the iPods,” Evangelista writes. “‘No one on the planet dares ignore Steve Jobs,’ Doherty said. Consumer electronics-makers like Sony and Panasonic have ‘a fear of what he sees that they’ve missed.'”
Much more in the full article here.
first post
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who cares? the real news is (off the subject but i got first post, whatever that means)….apple hasn’t released a software update in, it seems, weeks and there are still tons of viruses being released for windoze. every day brings several new, strangely named baddies. just think about it…
The biggest thing Apple needs to do with the iPod is extend the battery life. This is the ONLY major feature that ‘competitors’ can brag about in comparison witht the iPod. Once Apple does that, there won’t be much of a reason to buy anyone else’s product.
Unless you’re cheap.
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What the hell kind of battery technology does Sony have that can give the same size player (a little lighter) more than 3Xs the battery life? Is there somthing Apple isnt putting in the iPods? I somhow doubt that 30 hours is a real world number
To be fair is 8 hours from an ipod real world?
Just you wait.
Microsoft is gonna jump in the game that plays the only the best media format out there today – Windows Media.
It is going to feature a 2 inch screen for playing video, which is so detailed you can almost make out what you are watching. It will weigh only 2 pounds, easily stored in its own media bag, which weighs only an additional 2 pounds and includes a portable charger, since it will need to be charged every two hours. It will change the way we live.
Coming in 2012.
The only way the others are EXTENDING the battery life is compressing the music tighter. If you were to take all your music and re-encode at 64 (instead of AAC 128) then you could concieveably have 16 hours of play time as long as you don’t skip around. On my iPod, if it set it to play a playlist that only includes AAC music and set it to shuffle, I’ll get about 8 hours. If I use MP3 160 or skip forward through the list, the battery time is cut every time the HD has to spin more often.
Go here
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So it will only play music in Sony’s own format?
In other words, you will have to convert your whole library to ATRAC — or whatever it is called — rather than using open formats like AAC and mp3 which is still the dominant format.
That’s a non-starter for me.
yeah yeah.. you are comparing Apple iPod to Sony Walkman ND-HW-ZXYWV-BHXU-2004….
Ask them to be cool and name a product nicely.
“‘We think this is the year Sony starts breathing down Apple’s neck in music,” said technology analyst Richard Doherty of the Envisioneering Group.
Wrong body part, Doherty. Been sniffing around Apple’s feet in music and iTMS just blew down a reminder of how far they’ve got to go [1.5M-two-weeks-Europe].
An iPod with 12 hours (real) battery life would be nice, though. With the batteries degrading over time, 2 years after purchase the battery will then still hold about 8-10 hours – so we wouldn’t have to replace them too soon. (And just consider that Apple WILL have their hands full in about 2 years from now, replacing all those drained batteries.)
Apple now uses off-the-shelf parts for their iPod design to be cheaper off. Apple has not done its very own design of all the components and the circuit board. This can cause power requirements to be high. With iPods selling really well now, Apple should consider doing extra research in how they can reduce battery drain. Just adding a higher buffer memory would also help, up to 256 MB from 128 MB, but only the user doesn’t touch his/her iPod and only play full playlists – but people tend to shuffle.
The iPod only has a 32MB memory buffer.
Tom,
First post and more specifically the acknowledgement of first post means that the person who gets it and acknowledges it has little else to do in life other than read MacDailyNews and quickly reply. They have so few accomplishments and such low self-esteem that they must grasp at any form of recognition they can find. They are socially the lowest of the low, second only to someone who would spend time explaining the disorder known as “First Post.”
I can just hear people in the streets:
“Oh, cool, you’ve got the new NW- HD1!” Brilliant marketing. Name a music player like a 1980s motorcycle! What’s NW standing for – no way?
Mr. Morrison, I would like you to meet Mr. Evangelista. Mr. Evangelista; Mr. Morrison.
Mike
OT
iPodder:
Thanks for the link!
HHG trivia question: Who performs the theme music?
Mike
Sorry, my mistake. did I just write 256 MB RAM buffer? I meant to say up to 64 MB from 32 MB.
Sony’s Connect service will do little to reverse the iTMS+iPod phenomenon!
—
http://homepage.mac.com/johnhood
I just find it amazing that Sony announces players at $400 & $500 US-no one in the press thinks they’re crazy. The day Apple introduced the iPod the press summarily announce how insane Apple was at $300 & $400 for mp3 players. The mini was so over priced at $249 US. Apple is just out of touch but in the mean time they can make any of them fast enough.
Apple crazy-Sony breathing down their neck. Why is it the press hates Apple so much? Without Apple tech innovation would be stagnant.
It’s annoying that Aple get caned when they exaggerate slightly or use artistic license (G5 fastest PC claim), but everyone else gets away with using such utterly rubbish figures.
I don’t want Apple to have to start lying about battery life, but Sony obviously are. What Apple need to do is run some tests at 48k and 64k constant playing with no shuffling and with the volume at 1% to see how long they get. Then they ned to say, “We could claim a 30 hour battry life, just like our competitors”, and explain how theycan get an iPod to do that. Then add “But we think you’d rather know how long the battery really lasts when you listen to music”.
Oh, and they could do a lot simply by putting in 64MB flash instead of 32. It might actually be cheaper then sticking a bigger battery in there.
This is actually good–in terms of the consumer. By Sony entering into the market, it ensures that Apple can not rest on its laurels. This means that the consumer will always have a better/best product–price wars be dammend. The end is inevitable, however. Pound-for-pound, I believe the true innovator will win out. In this case, its Apple.
I remember when I bought my Sony laptop about 2 1/2 years ago (I’ve since sold it to a family member after buying my first Mac, a G5:)…and I used the HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE Sony music program called Sonic Stage. That program was only version 1.1 or whatever, but it was horrible. So then I had to switch so I had to choose between MusicMatch and WinAmp. I went with MM. But let me tell you how much I hate MusicMatch. Those bastards ended up charging me $40 because I wanted the lifetime upgrade key in addition to the full features. What a crock! Then, after getting frustrated and listening to my friend talk about the FREE iTunes, I downloaded it when Apple had on their website “Hell has frozen over.” And guess what? iTunes is what made me switch to Macintosh. After using iTunes for a couple days, I freely admitted that it was the best program written for Windows. Not much longer after that, I took a tour on my friends G4 and ended up getting a G5, the first time I had actually used a Mac in at least ten years. I LOVE IT!!!!!! Thank you iTunes.
I don’t think ATRAC will be the turnoff that some think think it will be. The fact that it has poor sound quality is not exactly news: .mp3 is garbage compared to .aif, but it sounds good enough coming through computer speakers or headphones, which is all that really matters in a portable player.
As for converting all your music over to ATRAC, 99.9% of my music is on CD, and I have had to convert all of it to .m4a to get it on my iPod. It wouldn’t have made any difference to me what format I had to use, I would still have had to convert everything. I doubt that the average consumer would feel any more inconvenienced by having to choose one format over another
Just my opinion…
Great story ‘g’
iPodder: That’s some VERY interesting info. I never knew that. Now that I think about it, I think it would be interesting to see where TRUE battery life is if everyone were to encode their music at the SAME bit rate, and then do a test. I wonder how the iPod would come out in that test.
That said, I think it still would be nice to have a longer battery life on iPod, if for nothing more than to shut up the ‘competition’.
i never run out of battery life. 15 minutes is all i need and i’m in heaven, and then i charge overnight. besides, it works OK without the batteries if i’m desprate.
oh wait u mean ipods
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> well my ipod mini lasts just fine too. i charge once every day or 2 and it doesnt die on me. how many people listen ALL day every minute anyway?
I believe part of the reason Sony gets a better battry life has to do with the device only supporting, and highly optimized for, ATRAC-3.
I also believe I read in the first wave of press releases for this thing that the 30-hour rate was at 64 bits, not 128, but I’m not as sure on this point as I am on the first…
I think I might have the explanation for the longer battery life – thanks iPodder and Hywel for the clue. At “As the Apple Turns” http://www.appleturns.com/episode/?date=7/2/2004 I read that Sony claim their NW-??? will hold 13,000 songs encoded at… wait for it… 48 kbps!!! Perhaps 48 kbps files require much less HD access and extend battery life?
As the Apple Turns comments that “48 Kbps songs in *any* format are probably going to sound like a portable handheld AM radio playing from the bottom of a well while a few dozen people pop bubble wrap nearby.” Indeed.
Mac Beth, you’re so bad -LOL-
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but what’s that, you need to recharge overnight after just 15 minutes? hell, I’m pushing fifty, and I don’t need that long to recharge.
u would after i was through with ya :p
30 hours on a Sony Walkman NW-HD1? Yeah, if you want to listen to LOW BITRATE songs! The battery probably lasts as long as an iPod if it plays music in 128kb/s. Sony cheats by using a much lower bit rate (64kb/s, I think) in order to crank out the so-called 30 hours of battery life. The less computing the Walkman does, the more juice it has to play songs.
It’s a marketing trick. When customers buy that Sony iPod-wanna-be thing and realize that you have to listen to low quality sound in order to get the 30 hours of play time, they’d bring it right back to the store the next day for a full refund!
Correction:
48kb/s — even worse!
I’ll have some of what hagar57 is drinking.
great stuff what people are saying: apple actually meeting some competition is great.
one problem.. these sony machines don’t play mp3’s… which means stolen music doesnt play on them..
and … dear god… lest we forget the Connect Service is a complete (and I mean it) piece of garbage, whereas the iTunes music store is almost perfect.. (2 million songs to go?)
Thurrott seems to think Apple has to lie about iPod/ipod mini demand..
you look at the store, and it seems pretty obvious
Well, Thurrott is a biased idiot, so I ignore him on all accounts.
Keep it coming Sony. Competition is good. Apple makes great products under pressure. It would be foolish to think that Apple would innovate at a break-neck pace if they had only to beat the other players like Dell.
Sony makes some good-looking products that don’t look exactly like Apple’s. They compete more directly with other PC makers and bring up the common denominator. PCs suck a little less because of Sony. If we are forced to use PCs, it’s good to have a few Sonys out there.
So I say keep the competition coming, because I really enjoy the insanely great products Jobs and Co come back with when the competition starts to get close. Companies like Sony keep the RDF from getting out of control and ungulfing everything Mac.
Anyone who gets rid of their iPod for a Dell DJ, and proclaims the DJ is better, is nothing less than an idiot.
Apple should welcome this competition from Sony. This is another force against WMA. If WMA becomes the standard, then Micro$in has all the power and marketshare, even if they lose money.
Also, this competition from Sony, who is an instantly respected player, will make the iPod even better for us all and improvements will come quicker and
cheaper(eventually). I am glad Sony didn’t support WMA, but I am suprised that Sony didn’t go with AAC in order to be an immediate player.
Keep in mind…higher fidelity music requires more battery power.
If Apple can increase battery life(without losing AAC[Dolby] quality and add a color screen and view iPhoto slideshows at a slightly less price point, then I don’t think it can be beat anytime/anywhere, even by Sony.
I agree most consumers don’t care what AAC is, but if this format was marketed as Dolby instead of AAC, then there would be even higher marketshare. The word Dolby is infused into everyones brain and represents
a better quality sound…they should have gone with this. The little things like that make a difference.
I’m glad Sony didn’t support WMA as well, but they will only be a force if they gain enought popularity. I don’t think Sony likes MS anyway, I think they view MS as a necessary evil (for the Windows OS). Note that Sony doesn’t use Pocket PC for their PDA’s, only Palm OS. I don’t think they promote office or any other MS software in their computers as well (that would have to be double checked).
I do hope Sony gets a little traction with ATRAC3, but due to the fact that their players don’t support MP3, or AAC, I think their impact will be serverly limited. Still, anyone who buys a Sony player, is someone who didn’t buy a WMA-compatible player, and that’s one person NOT supporting MS and their WMA ‘standard’.
A few years ago, I asked a friend from Glasgow, “I know the Scots aren’t in love with the English and quite obviously, neither are the Irish, but what are the feelings between the Scots and the Irish?”
His reply was, “My enemy’s enemy is my friend.”
“Ed” has discovered this 5,000 year old fundamental principle of warring civilizations
Throughout history, too may dictators underestimated the friendship that can form when smaller, even opposing, forces face a greater common enemy.
paul thurot only bought an ipod planning to throw it away just so he could say he did. what a genius.
less is more
that would be 10 year old Glenmorangie.
[url=http://www.glenmorangie.com]http://www.glenmorangie.com[/url]
As other have mentioned, song bitrate can have effects on battery life since the higher the bitrate, the larger the songs and the less song you can fit into RAM at one time. It forces the HD to spin more to pay the same number of songs. Sony uses 48 kbps in the calculation which effectively more than doubled the battery life.
Another is battery care. If you don’t take care your battery well, it will have less and less charge. Battery life is not finite (common sense, but from the controversy, it seemed people forgot that), the longer it’s been in use, the shorter time it powers devices. Yet another factor is battery size. Some devices contains big batteries, which lasts longer. And finally, the battery type itself.
“‘No one on the planet dares ignore Steve Jobs,’ Doherty said.
What a great quote!
Cheers, hagar57.
How nice of Sony to buy Hitachi drives. I would like other manufacturers to do the same, leading to economies of scale and R&D funds to help develop the microdrive.
So that when I buy my iPod Mini, I’ll get more capacity and pay less.
Analists are not idiots. They are very well paid to say the stupid things they say. However, they should be called Propagandists, not Analists.
It will change the way we live.
LOL…
People are such idiots 🙁
I’d like to see truly competitive products on the market, even though I’m an iPod owner and Apple fan. Sony’s new product, however, doesn’t do it.
It’s actually a bit disappointing to watch a company with Sony’s history create such an uninspired product.
Hurry! We need to find crap writer Turt-rot to criticize Sony’s proprietary ATRAC format!!! Where is that Windows HO?
Apple has already fired off a shot at Sony – and it’s making the national headlines – saying Sony has been less than accurate about the capacity of its new players and the quality of the music that it can supposedly hold at those numbers – see this: http://www.macminute.com/2004/07/07/sony
BuriedCaesar,
You beat me to it. I wondered how long it would take anyone (apart from As the Apple Turns) to take note of Sony’s claim that a bitrate of 48 kpbs produces high-quality songs.
Mac Beth,
15 minutes? My lower back twinged when I read that. Hell, I read your posts and I’m ready for a box of Kleenex and a cigarette. Such is middle age and the curse of premature….dammit! Where’s that bloody Kleenex?
wow that’s just really sad. sony uses 132 and then they pretend to use only 48!
i bet they lie about the battery too then.
its OK viridian. premature may startle me but as long as the guys(gals) mouth is still working i aint gonna complain :p
What a coincidence! I just got my braces off too.
*sigh* Well, I guess I’ve had enough witty banter for one day; I’m a bit tired. I’ll just go sit quietly and lick my eyebrows now.
[steps backwards out of the room, quietly closing the door]
BuriedCaesar,
Thanks! I’m still laughing as I type this! That was great!
The comparison on player alone will not suffice. The power of Apple comes from combination of iPod, iTunes and iTMS. So comparing against Sony’s player, Sonic Stage and Sony Connect, Apple wins hands down at this point. It would take Sony a long time to even pull level.
And as we know, Apple is not standing still in this market. They are adding in new features all the time.
I am seeing so many more people with iPod these days. So as long as Apple defends/improves their market share, they will enjoy first mover’s advantage for a long time to come.
>I’ll just go sit quietly and lick my eyebrows now. [Viridian]
LOL — 10 points!
if u can reach ur eyebrows that’s even better than the mike’s hard lime ads
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(covers herself up until ceaser has the door shut. cant a girl get some privacy!)
This Line:
“Apple’s marketing prowess pushed the iPod and the smaller iPod Mini past the Walkman to become pop culture’s new slick, cool portable music device.”
Yup. They’re all about the same, can’t hardly tell ’em apart. But Apple’s MARKETING PROWESS sure dragged the iPod across the finish line ahead of everyone else.
(eat my shorts)
david vesey
The iPod keeps getting more useful. This could be huge!
(from Time magazine)
Found in Translation
Searching for a bathroom in Tokyo, but don’t speak Japanese? You can stop flipping frantically through that Berlitz dictionary and fumbling with awkward pronunciations. An easier solution is now as close as your Apple iPod, thanks to a new set of foreign-language programs available from an online service at talkingpanda.com.
Talking Panda’s software can be downloaded into the iPod. It provides more than 300 commonly used phrases, which are instantly organized into categories such as “dining,” “shopping,” “emergency” and “making friends.” You can access the needed phrases in English using the touch-wheel scroll device and then clicking on the sentence you want. The translation appears on the screen and is also recited clearly through your headphones.
Downloads are cheap-just $10 each-but so far language options are limited to French, Spanish and Japanese. And the software works only on new, third generation iPods using Mac OS X version 10.2 or later (a Windows version is promised soon).
Does anyone else remember ATRAC by thinking “8-Track”?