“It’s unclear to me how many free passes the hyperbolic Steve Jobs gets, but clearly he’s reaching the end of his allotment: Last year, he promised a 3 GHz G5 by June 30, but this week, Apple upgraded the G5 line to 1.8 GHz and 2 GHz dual processor models, with a third model, sporting a liquid-cooled 2.5 GHz processor due ‘in July’ (if we can believe that claim). So 3 GHz isn’t happening anytime soon,” Paul Thurrott writes for Paul Thurrott’s Internet-Nexus.
“…when I complain about Apple, this is pretty much the type of thing I’m talking about. There is a line between ‘promotion’ and ‘bald-faced lying,’ and Apple just crosses it a little too often for my tastes. For example, when the company writes, ‘now the Power Mac G5 offers dual processor models across the board at 1.8GHz, 2GHz and 2.5GHz, for a substantial speed boost at the top of the line,’ that’s an exageration, because the 2.5 GHz model is not available now at all, and given Apple’s history, might not meet its expected July release date as well. making that ‘substantial speed boost at the top of the line’ a little less compelling … now,” Thurrott writes.
“And when Jobs boasts about 3 GHz processors and 100 million iTunes downloads, well, that’s just irresponsible. I suspect shareholders are happy enough about the company’s other successes that they’re willing to overlook a few indiscretions. But that won’t always be the case and arguably should never be the case anyway,” Thurrott writes.
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: We agree with, and only with, what we’ve quoted from Paul Thurrott above. Now hell has really frozen over. Granted, we have to wait until June 23 to make sure Jobs doesn’t have any tricks up his sleeve, but it doesn’t look like it right now. This Thurrott article is exactly the type of thing SteveJack predicted would happen in his article “Apple CEO Jobs misses ‘3Ghz G5 within a year’ prediction by wide margin” – see link below.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Steve Jobs needs to stop making predictions he can’t hit – June 09, 2004
Apple CEO Jobs misses ‘3Ghz G5 within a year’ prediction by wide margin – June 09, 2004
Hey paul….where’s longhorn….. LOLOLOLOLOLOL
“There is a line between ‘promotion’ and ‘bald-faced lying,’ and Apple just crosses it a little too often for my tastes”
He’s made a career of lying.
Yeah, we’re upset. But why is this news? For months MDN has been predicting that there’d be no 3GHz until at least the end of summer, and has naysayed the type of talk that would hold Jobs feet to the fire. Why the change now?
MDN is going to agree with Thurrott?!?! No. Apple/Jobs has made some misstatements, but I challenge you to find a CEO that has been 100% accurate in their analysis of the future of their company. They are asked to provide a roadmap, and they do the best they can with the info they are provided.
Get off the high horse, MDN. You want Steve’s job – go apply for it. But armchair quarterbacking and 20/20 hindsight ain’t gonna get it for you.
M$FT, Longhorn 2006, ooops, 2007, ooops, 2008, oooops 2009
At least Apple doesn’t screw up it’s OS like M$ does…
Did Jobs miss it? Far as I can tell, there is still quite a few days until June 30th. Is it so hard to believe Apple might release a 4th horse to the stable to take a new place as the top end model? Adding a 4th machine that would be priced a few Benny’s above the current dual 2.5s wouldn’t cause people to quit buying the other models.
Just like we did with the numbers projections on the one year anniversary of iTMS, why don’t we just calm down and wait for a deadline to get here before qualifying it as a failure?
Steve Jobs a bald faced liar! WTF?! Jesus Christ, so there are difficult technical problems involved (man, that never happens in the high tech world!) give me a break (that includes you too MDN). Be glad Apple is making the world’s fastest computers and take a deep breath – the 3GHz will be out eventually – and the G5s will still crush the competition then…
Did anyone think perhaps Jobs released this minor upgrade now just to tell us in 3 weeks that the 3GHz G5 will ship in September, one year from the original? If we’re honest, their’s really only 1 new system here and it is quite possible for Jobs to add the dual 3GHz as the new top of the line.
S.J. should get at least as many free passes as B.G., don’t you think? If you don’t think, you’re an A.H.
Steve made those predictions because they were needed at the time. He needed a big splash, so he made one. Missed predictions are hardly ever noticed, and even when they are it’s only for a short time. We’ll all forget this prediction by the time Steve makes his next big announcement, which is why I’m sure there’s another announcement coming very shortly.
No, no 3ghz on June 30th. Article: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/09/apple/index.php
“All-in-all, no we are not getting to 3GHz anytime soon, but what we are announcing today is a very significant upgrade in performance and its something that are customers will be very happy with.” – Tom Boger, Apple’s Director of Power Mac Product Marketing
I think lying is a bit strong – that implies that he knows they won’t be able to do something but says they will anyway. The correct term, in my humble opinion, is pathologically optimistic. I’m sure Steve really believes what he says but he’s unreasonably optimistic.
BTW, when I say “big splash”, that includes a lot of attitude manipulation. S.J. gave everyone a lot of hope for the future of Macintosh when he made that prediction, and that hope has survived the prediction’s failure.
Wow, really…didn’t see this coming! I know you agree MDN but give it a rest!
So what, no 3 GHz yet! It’ll be here soon enough.
Do you dopes really think that Jobs goes out there and make these predictions without some sort of assurance for his partners (i.e.: IBM & Pepsi) that the goals are very attainable???
We’ll have the Dual 3GHz by September then you can all just shut your yaps!
Steve Jobs on June 23, 2003 said precisely, “Within 12 months, we will be at 3GHz.”
Forget about trying to move the deadline, folks. The deadline is June 23, 2004.
Maybe Jobs meant humans will have 3GHz CPUs by June 23, 2004, but not G5 CPUs? Stop apologizing for Jobs – he screwed the pooch here.
Oh, by the way, let’s completely forget to mention the 2.5’s are LIQUID COOLED! Now, who was anticipating that? No kudos?
And one other thing, if you think about it, if we need liquid cooling for the 2.5’s then imagine how hot the 3’s are going to be. Maybe that’s why they’re not out yet!
I just want to point out that the dual 2.5Ghz G5 creams the 3.4Ghz Pentium 4 (almost twice the performance, see http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/) so I think freaking out the lack of a 3Ghz is much ado about nothing.
someone please tell me why thurrot gives a $hit WHAT apple does? i mean, he’s noted repeatedly as not liking macs etc etc–then why does he even CARE what Jobs says?? his whole apple obsession is pretty damned obvious–there’s not even a need to go to the link because his reaction to all things apple are entirely predictable–
Thurrott is just flapping his jaws, it doesn’t matter. It’s not like these misses are going to cost Steve his job.
One thing tho, the herky jerky upgrade announcements and then slow delivery probably do have an effect on whether people purchase these units. It used to be that pc ers would wait and wait because every six months was a light year’s advancement in speed and features. Finally hardware got so cheap that we really could afford to upgrade every year or so, and pc sales exploded. Macs aren’t in that class of commodity, and there are enough tales of woe around here about buying the latest, dearly, and then having the price rug pulled out from under to believe that this is a serious detriment to sales.
All these above $2k “new offerings” of course don’t address the biggest need, an entry level model that competes with wintels. Doesn’t seem to me that WWDC is the place for that announcement, and I think Steve has given up the headache of actually producing millions of computers, so it will be a long wait.
Where are the processors Intel promised last year Thurrott??
(Oh yeah, they cancelled those…shhh)
Where is XP Service Pack 2 huh??
And where is Longhorn??
Talk about liars…get it a rest hypocrite.
I am a little ticked off how misleading the new unit prices are. The 1.8 appears 500 dollars cheaper than before, but is downgraded to 256 ddram and to an 80gb hard drive, plus its given that i have to upgrade the video card to be truly happy with it, which puts it at pretty much the same price point it was at before.
Ye G5 is faster then pentium 4 in theory, bur are there any software that will actually acces the full potential of G5? if there is G5 would be the fastest but as macworls test show its on the line with the top pc model with dual xeon processors.
So inteal all software is compatible with 64 bit machine you might as well steak to 32 bit machine.
Speaking of lower-cost models, this article also states that G5 iMacs are also not on the horizon (which is a surprise to me) http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/09/apple/index.php
It seems that Jobs doesn’t have nearly as many free passes from Thurrot as Thurrot gives himself. All MDN is proving with this piece is that they agree with a hypocrit.
Keefe: “The 1.8 appears 500 dollars cheaper than before, but is downgraded to 256 ddram ” – Don’t forget it’s a dual processor…
the way I look at it it’s a 5 gightz 64 bit machine that beats a 6.4 gigahtz intel
It seems to me that Steve Jobs is more accurate in making predictions than Thurrott in making analysis, even when he has all the information in front of him. While it would be nice to have a 3 GHz model now, when was the last time Intel saw a 25% jump in speed? It’s never had a 50% jump in speed and considering it is new technology, I’m not surprised at the delay. I will say that perhaps Steve made a tactical error by promising 3 GHz in a year, because it might have caused some people to hold off on a buy decision instead of going with what was available now. I know I’ve waited because I figured that holding out for another year would really pump the speed up. But I don’t fault the man for thinking that he could give me 3 GHz in a year with the information he had at the time.
This is clearly the same 2.0ghz part from the Xserve that is overclocked to hell to 2.5Ghz. Sure, IBM will stamp it as a 2.5ghz part, but it really isn’t. The liquic cooling isn’t for quiet. It’s for the overclocking.
THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM. IBM cannot get it’s crap together to put out parts. The only difference between Motorola and IBM now is that back then, liquid cooling wasn’t an option.
Moreover, their liquid cooling is designed by an idiot. Closed loop for 2 processors!!?!? Duh. One of the processors is going to pour HOT water on the other. So one processor will always be running hotter than the other. This has lame ass hack spelled all over it.
I’m worried again for Apple’s processor and machine design again.
Finally this machine, beyond making the entry level headless mac prohibitively expensive, is NOT suitable for a lot of pros. It’s a fully HUGE tower and it still cannot have more than 2 hard drives and one optical drive. Pathetic.
The only thing that is good about all of this is they announced it before WWDC, because it’s such a complete miserable dissappointment, it would have been a big downer. Kudos to Apple’s marketing for playing that right to get this crap news out of the way beforehand.
Expect G5 sales to stay relatively crappy.
Thurott speaks and the market speaks � Apple stockholders will not stand for this, they will simply drive the stock price higher. Wall street is not punishing Apple for shooting for the moon and only getting into orbit as a result.
Really, this is just more sour grapes from Thurott, this piece of irrelevant “nana nana na na” impresses no one. How many have been harmed by the enthusiasm of Apple’s projections? Certainly far fewer than have been harmed by the illegal activities of the MS monopoly.
In the end, the pronouncements made by Jobs are more closely related to the athlete who “guarantees” a game 7 win, they are commitment to excellence and to always making the effort to go beyond what is expected, something I will always respect.
For those without imagination, Apple issues regular guidance to the financial markets and files mountains SEC paperwork that together present a drab enough picture of expectations that are grounded in solid reality. Thurott should turn his attention to these if he is offended by Jobs.
To shake loose the old quotation, what is a corporation except that its reach should exceed its grasp?
And Dan is right, calling SJ a liar is pretty strong. He made a prediction (that he had little control over) and it missed. In the technical sense, he lied. Was it on purpose? No. Oops, the dream is shattered, Steve Jobs is human. Whoda thunk it?
it was a prediction, the ibm ceo stood right there and said the same thing. what are you going to do? its still a 25% increase in clock speed, the only thing i dont like is the inclusion of the 5200s after all this time. bottom line, the g5 with os x is the best desktop computer out there, and it just got better, no one can take that away.
So Steve was wrong about 3.0, who cares ? be happy that were not PC zombies and in control by BIG MONEY Bill Gates and all of the problems that they have. LOOK at all the fun stuff you can do on a mac and laugh at the PC world. Would you like to have a DELL or have a mac who speed is little short from it mark. So if you listen to stupid to the writer Thurrott, who is probably a PC whiner anyway, then so be it said that you can jump in the same line with him, a first class FOOL “so let it be written, so let it be done”
Read here: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/09/apple/index.php
No 3.0 GHz in time promised by Steve. Really fucking stupid–not only make a prediction you can’t back up, but also cost yourself sales doing it. How many PowerMac purchasers have held off upgrading because they were waiting for 3 GHz machines that, by the above article, won’t be available even in a guestimate time range.
Further:
No G5 PowerBooks on the horizon. Again by the above article apparently in the “how the hell do we do that?” stage.
No G5 iMac on the horizon. Same place as the G5 PowerBook.
I tell ya, great design department, great OS, but the rest of the company is staffed by monkeys.
Good thing Apple fans are used to taking it up the ass.
Good Lord! Everyone bitches when Apple keeps its hand close to its chest! Now, when Steve Jobs for once tells us what’s coming and when, everyone has triple conniption fits when he misses the deadline. Some folks just cannot be pleased, no matter what.
What SJ said seems like a lie today. Let us see the same in a different way: I will give you the same facts that Steve Jobs had an year before and see if you can come to the same conclusion that SJ came to an year earlier. If yes, then he is not a liar.
There are two advantages in being pessimistic: Either you are proven right, or you are pleasantly surprised.
But, there are few people who dare to make unreasonable expectations, meet them most of the time, miss it sometimes because of a few things (that probabaly are either in or out of their control). But, these are the crazy ones. If you do not see “genius” in them, it’s not your fault. That’s what his company is about.
so i guess the idiot wants no more ‘roadmaps’ from Apple!
on the one hand, you have people keep asking what’s coming in the future. but when you’re at the edge of technology, depending on specific breakthroughs, it’s awfully hard to predict.
The new line models are blazing – I do not see what the big deal is over 3 GHz. The dual 2.5 GHz machine with dual 1.25 MHz front side buses provide almost (or more than?) 20 GB per second in raw bandwidth.
The benchmarks show its aggressive power. OS X is 64-bit optimized to utilize dual processors as are many of the apps used on OS X – so speed demands should be more than met by any of the dual proc machines.
“There is a line between ‘promotion’ and ‘bald-faced lying,’ ” Actually I don’t think this counts as promotion. In actuality Steve probably hurt sales of the G5 rather than promoted it because everyone was waiting for the 3 Ghz.
I’ll bet he has learned his lesson though and will be more circumspect in the future.
God, Thurridiot has been so wrong about Apple so many times that it really bugs me when he is even a little bit right. Well, I guess it would probably be as hard for him to be wrong 100% of the time as it is for Steve to right 100% of the time.
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Read: “Steve to be right”
Man, I wish MDN had an edit function.
I can’t believe all the posts above which clearly show that so many of you are caught in the mHz myth that was conjured up by Intel, and recently abandoned. Processor performance is not about mHz alone, it is about how a processor can process.
Sure Intel has much higher clockspeeds, but they do not have the highest performance levels. In the PC space, AMD soundly wups anything Intel has at the same mHz, and is more than competitive at a full gHz less. I would also point out that the G5 is now running at about the same mHz as the best AMD chips, which in itself is quite an accomplishment given how far behind the G4 was several years ago.
While I agree, that Steve needs to reduce the number of predicitions he makes, I can’t understand when or why predicitions have become promises. A predicition is just a predicition–its not your word of honor, or even a “this is our stated scheduled goal”. It’s pretty much like me standing in the middle of a semi-busy street and saying, “I think a car will drive pass in the next 30 seconds.” I could be on the money, or I could be bowled over by a car zooming pass in the next 5 seconds, or I could be standing there for the next 30 minutes.
Even if we upgrade a predicition to a goal, well project goals aren’t met all the time. They are there to keep the people moving forward, but ONLY a few of them are ever MUST HAVE by this date, or we can’t move on. I find it a very different thing when Steve Jobs says, “Our goal is to sell 100 million songs by 28 April 2004” vs Microsoft saying, “We will ship Longhorn in 2004”.
A 3GHz G5 chip is out of Apple’s control. Sure Jobs and company can push for a faster chip, (aside: I thought I read somewhere that a 3GHz chip has/had been produced, but wasn’t ready for prime time), but that doesn’t mean another company can deliver.
All this to say, I’m often torn between wishing Steve wouldn’t give the press and all the other naysayers statements to harp on, but I like hearing Steve’s predictions because they give me some idea of what Apple is shooting for.
Without the 3GHz prediction, I would have probably expected an upgrade to 2.2GHz in a year, and maybe a 2.5GHz two years out from the original date. Why because thats what the timelines use to be like for speed jumps, in fact, my thoughts may have been overly ambitious based on former time lines.
So the predicition/goal served its purpose, at least for me, by setting notice that the old production timelines were out the window, and faster speed jumps would be forthcoming. A year vs a year and half isn’t that much difference to me. I would expect that Apple is still pushing for a 3GHz G5 chip, and the possiblity that one might ship before Christmas is strong.
Yes wabof, that is an interesting article, but I liked it better when mrcllv linked it.
IBM knows how to cool processors, and I would be surprised if that is the problem with getting to 3.0. The “liquid cooling” is probably something very much like this:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles651/
which I personally know can cool a 2.6 ghz athlon xp silently. I think that is about 70 watts, much more than I thought the g5’s required.
Since all the g5’s seem to be rated at 20 x fsb, and in fact are probably identical chips, I bet the problem is achieving a 1.5 ghz fsb.
Why they cant stick a single g5 into an imac I can’t imagine.
“There is a line between ‘promotion’ and ‘bald-faced lying,’ and Apple just crosses it a little too often for my tastes”
I guess our good friend Paul isn’t bothered by supporting a convicted monopolist, who copies and steals technology all the time.
If we go by AMD clock, Apple did reach 3GHz with new PowerMac(actually 6GHz Xeon equivalent clock).
Arguably the release of AirPort Express and AirTunes (iTunes 4.6) is more important than when (if) 3GHz G5 ship!
—
http://homepage.mac.com/johnhood
Isn’t the chip production IBM’s job. So, IBM told Jobs that we’ll be at 3gHz in a year and he latched on to that. Steve’s mistake…no.
The Athlon 64 3800+ only actually runs at 2.4 GHz, so the new G5 introduced this morning is faster. Again, until Intel and AMD are blowing the doors off Apple/IBM with faster 64 bit processors themselves, all of this hypocritical whining is pointless.
I don’t call this lying at all. Steve made a good faith perdiction based on IBM’s optimism on its processing prowess at larger line widths. And didn’t realize how poor Pepsi’s execution of a co-marketing campaign would be. He certainly shouldn’t be excoriated because of outside partner’s failure. How many times MS has anounced a product, that never materialized or was ery late and barely adequate?
SJ is human? What does that make Turdott?
>There is a line between ‘promotion’ and ‘bald-faced lying, and Apple just crosses it a little too often for my tastes.
You gotta admire the man who can take that view whilst ignoring Microshit’s antics — which, by the way, have been proven in a court of law. This kind of denial is usually symptomatic of a personality with a deep flaw; a dark side so hideous that denial is the only way to maintain some measure of sanity. This is one ugly individual. Ugh!
When you are as innovative as Apple continues to be… You can expect this to happen every couple of years. When you are literally standing in front of the plant waiting for the newest yields to drop from the assembly you can expect to get your timing tossed a little here and there. The other side of the coin occurs when a company ships products to early without the proper testing required to insure the proper internal synergy between the varied pieces.
Would it suprise anyone if the quad liquid cooled workstations aren’t the “one last thing” at this years show. Pixar could already be using them in house.
Imagine the press that will stir up.
Come on, who here didn’t cringe when Steve made that prediction last year because we’ve all seen processor speculation miss projections time and time again? Who here didn’t know this wasn’t going to happen when IBM had their plant problem and the G5 XServe was delayed?
I just don’t see this as a major issue. Sure, I want a 3GHz dual processor lighting-fast Mac. But my 500MHz G4 is still doing a great job as it approaches its fourth birthday. If I get another year out of it I won’t hesitate to pony up to the biggest baddest system Apple makes, knowing that it will probably be another 4 years before I have to upgrade.
I remember my first computer…
The Commodore PET came fully functional out of the box:
� a keyboard with a separate numeric pad (almost completely unheard of at the time, even as an option)
� a 9″ integrated [Black] and White monitor
� a main board with a powerful new 1Mhz MOS 6502 processor
� lots of room for an additional RAM or Processor board
� 4K of memory [I purchased the additional 4k to upgrade to 8k RAM]
� [internal] power supply [about 50% of the total weight]
� real storage device (cassette tape) [within the same case was a new design concept… the whole design was influenced by the Star Trek TV series]
� several expansion ports including an RS232 (serial) port
� ability to handle and create fantastic graphics [the 8×8 dot matrix font set included numerous lines, curves, intersections as well as a reverse font for all of the characters and graphics. It was so good, it was used in the C=64]
� upper and lower case text
� an operating system that was burned onto ROM and loaded on boot… WOW that was cool.
[ ref: http://www.commodore.ca/products/pet/commodore_pet.htm ]
The all-in-one design, better graphics, and more available software/games is why I choose it over the Apple II or the TRS-80. I stayed with Commodore through C=64 and the Amiga 1200. I went to the Mac because the Amiga line was being faded out and the Mac was the most Amiga-like.
Why do I post this?
If you don’t remember the past, you cannot appreciate the present. Apple currently produces one of the best lines of computers, software and digital devices on the planet. If Steve misjudges a release date on occasion, that is VERY forgivable. For all the ways he and the Apple staff have improved my life, a small miscalculation is insignificant.
Who, here, can say they have done as much for so many as to be able to criticize him for a petty error?
Keep up the great work, Steve!!
allgood2 hit it closer than an other post on here. The fact that IBM had/has yield issues with the 90nm version of the G5 chip is completely out of Apple’s control and frankly is not surprising. It’s called R&D. A lot of things can go to hell in handbasket real fast once designs progress. It is not uncommom for problems to creap up that are unplanned that throws your schedule all out of whack. If you think it is avoidable, it is obvious you have never designed anything. Chip design is amazingly complex- more so than most people here realize- especially the whiney brats that are pissed because the 3GHz model isn’t available to play Quake at a higher frame rates on. Come on, get real. The average user will NEVER come close to using all the horsepower that is in the new G5’s, let alone the original G5.
I remember the bald-faced lie from Bill Gates and Microsoft a couple of years back about making Windows a more secure operating system. Thurrott should shut his cakehole.
I told you last time: Keep covering a blogger and present it as news & I’m outta here.
I’M OUTTA HERE
PS. everyone who is calling Jobs a liar is a typical Mac zealot: taking everything personal. The man made an announcement and his company hit a reality obstacle. Reality can get pretty real when you’re pushing limits.
Anyway, looks like we’re having the fastest computer of the moment and people start complaining: yea… well… but it’s not exactly like he said (whine, whine). If we would have a single 3Ghz PM slower than the current dual 2.5, every lemming would have been cheering now. The Wallstreet are the only ones at this moment who can appreciate things realistically.
But it’s true, Apple is the centre of attention and should be extra careful. M$ is such a joke that everyone is ready to excuse them a priori.
GOODBYE MDN
As usual and expectd, Thurrott and Motley Fool are again swinging in the dark. If this is all they can write about, then Apple must be doing pretty darn well. They have nothing else really to poop Apple about, and that is amazing considering all the stuff that Apple is involved with. They need to come up with some real stats and numbers to get anyone to take them seriously, and the fact is, they can’t. There really isn’t much more that they can write about and that M$ can pay them off for anymore. What are they going to do?
Meanwhile, the equivalent of 5 ghz(to use PC measurement) is not bad. What do they have to offer to compete? Huh Dell NO? Huh HP?
I agree with BLOGGER=NO NEWS. So you don’t get a 3Ghz computer for another few more months. So what? Who out there replaces their computer system every time Apple makes a grand announcement? Who out there who’s bitching about this is ready to purchase the 3Ghz model as soon as it ships? I’ll bet less than 5 percent of the complainers. Computer technology is always advancing. As soon as the 3Ghz model ships y’all will complain about Apple’s next 4Ghz or whatever announcement. Geez! Mac users are such a bunch of whining Nancies sometimes.
I am really wondering now…Airtunes is out and the G5 PM is out… what are they gonna do on June 28th?? Tiger is alot of news and time, the G5 iMac will be a nice presentation and hype, but there is usually more at a keynote speech. I am wondering what is up Jobs sleeves on June 28th?
Why would I care what Thurrott or other whiners think? There are a total of 4 Macs in my household and when the time comes in the future for those to be replaced, they’ll each be replaced with another new Mac. Of those 4, 3 have a G4 and one has a G3 and they’re all running Panther just fine.
My point is, whether the top end Mac has a 2.5 GHz G5 or a 3 GHz G5 right now doesn’t matter to 98.9% of us. I’m sure that it also doesn’t impact the overwhelming majority of those complaining about it today either. Thurrott certainly wouldn’t be buying a 3 GHz PowerMac G5 even if it was available, nor would most of the whiners, so who the hell cares…
LOL from elsewhere on the Thurrott blog:
“So I finally purchased the PowerBook last night, at the Apple Store in Chestnut Hill. Overall, it was a middling affair: The Chestnut Hill store is kind of crummy, and the people there were alternatively irritating (trying to get me to purchase every add-on on the planet) and idiotic (warning me not to touch the PowerBook’s box or open it at one point). Guys, I’m spending $2000 here. Maybe you could treat me slightly better than crap”
I bet some of YOU wish you had been there to “help” Paul!
Right on, RL– I’m buying you a beer! MDN lately has stood for “More Dumbass News”, especially with Special Guest Star Paula Thur-rotten popping up every day whining about how Apple has ruined her life and lowered her sex drive. Macs last for years, so we don’t need the latest and greatest every two weeks. Lighten up, pop in Halo, and pretend the aliens are Microsoft buttkissers.
Paul, at last some people are treating you the way you deserve it. I meant, like crap.
Joe:
I would love to have helped Thurrott, although my help would have involved hitting him around the head with a cricket bat.
And the bat would be embedded with lots of rusty nails.
And the nails would be dipped in tetanus.
Steve made a promise one year ago, and he will fail to come through on this promise. This, by itself, is not enough information to make one assess Steve or Apple as a whole.
Also, Steve knew the risks when making the promise. And even if he didn’t, that’s his fault for not recognizing the risks.
Folks, stop over-dramatizing, and also stop trying to excuse this. Move on.
Enough said! Instead of continuing to bitch and moan, focus on something that really matters. Take care of yourself and others!
MCCFR, exactly! And it would be worth a paragraph on his site too!
It’s 1:40 in New York
Apple are up 23� at $30.58 and are now worth $11.3 billion.
Adobe is down 71� at $46.41 and are now worth $11.06 billion.
Karmic payback for that “Intel is the best platform for our apps” bullshit from a few years back.
Apple rocks.
Jobs may have screwed up the prediction, but to call Jobs a bald-faced liar makes Thurrott a bald-faced idiot.
Please tell me Thurrott hasn’t done anything so rash as procreated. Get this joker out of the gene pool.
Not only has he procreated, but another of his blog sites list the activities of his family at a ridiculously self-obsessed level of detail.
Anybody stupid enough to list his kids’ names and where they play Little League, along with photos, to a world which contains more than a reasonable share of weirdos just to massage his own ego really does deserve to be beaten with a cricket bat.
Stockreport, given that adbe has currently lost less of its all time valuation than aapl, has ten times the profit margin, actually pays a dividend, and percentage wise is much farther off its recent lows than aaple is, what’s your point?
My point is that AAPL, fuelled by sales of its music products and products like the new Power Macintosh G5 (which appears to blow the doors of its rivals in the real world) and AirPort Express, appears to be resurgent both as a technical competitor and as sound financial investment.
Whereas Adobe, having abdicated any role in the Macintosh marketplace where it may have to compete and innovate whilst cosying up to a convicted monopolist and a platform that appears to have hit a brick wall, now appears to be growing purely on the basis of Acrobat sales, since print media is still in a purchasing recession and their video products can’t cut it in the marketplace against Final Cut and Avid.
My extended point is that, having so publicly bitten the hand of the company that gave Adobe life in the first place, I can’t wait for Apple’s market cap to become sufficiently large so that Apple can acquire Macromedia and use it to secure and develop a whole range of applications for both print and new media.
That’s what I meant by karmic debt.
Mr. Super Paul has a M$ super page.
http://www.winsupersite.com/
Is Windows the future? or is the future in windows. Paul, can you answer this?
‘where’s the promised 3GHz PowerMac G5?
WHY IT”S IN YOUR ASS THUROTT YOU SORRY SHIT
You wouldn’t buy one anyway, so drop dead.
Perhaps the lie is from IBM to Steve. Or from Pepsi to Steve. Granted, Mr. Jobs could have downplayed his goals so we would they would have been more easily reachable. But how do you spur product excitement by claiming mediocre results? Pepsi obviously screwed up the distribution of the yellow-topped bottles. An early rush of possible winners probably would have spurred higher download rates, free and paid alike. And IBM got caught with it’s PLANTS down (so to speak), after whispering sweet nothings about speed bumps to Steve.
I’m not pissed at Steve. I’m pissed at Apple’s partners who have let them down, yet again (um…how many little hard drives can you crank out Toshiba?). My only gripe with his 3ghz prediction, was that it may have cost some 2 ghz sales in the interim.
But we have a 2.5ghz water-cooled screamer to drool over now. Sign me up.
I bet Paul wrote and answered this question:
Q: But Mac OS X already has a lot of these features. What’s the big deal?
A: Apple has implemented some basic desktop composition features in Mac OS X “Panther.” But the basic problem with Mac OS X isn’t going away: It’s a classic desktop operating system that doesn’t offer anything in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating systems. Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won’t be any comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther.
Ok Stock, I get it. Your first post didn’t make sense financially. It would be perfect payback if the scenario you imagine comes true.
For those who haven’t seen Longhorn’s newest build. Check how much they copied OS X.
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/05/18/longhorn.html?page=1
as a prospective switcher (and mac fan), I’m amazed at the tinted glasses most posters here seem to see through.
Granted, most mac models are superb computers, but Apple as a company has consistently missed shipping dates, broken promises and damn-near lied about its products.
Let’s be honest. This release is piss-poor and is only creating such a fuss because of your Messiah’s blind comments last year. Jobs may well be an innovator and visionary, but he’s also a salesman. Don’t forget that.
As for Thurott, what’s the problem? Are you so blinded by your zeal for macs that one bloke can upset you so much. I read his website for an alternative view to the standard Apple line so often touted by mac websites.
Sometimes balance is good…
Stock
Ironically, Longhorn will have a built in Acrobat killer that will allow you to ‘print’ to a PDF file and will be just as feature rich as Acrobat is now.
If they don’t actively defend Photoshop on both platforms Adobe could be in big trouble if and when Longhorn arrives.
Stephen L
It’s a damn good thing Microsoft doesn’t lie or miss shipping dates. Thank goodness Dell doesn’t lie or bait and switch on it’s website. Intel never releases bogus benchmark scores.
It is good that Apple is held to a higher standard.
Let me repost.
IBM had just saved Apple’s bacon by producing 2 GHz chips that were as good as or better than the competition. They put Apple back in the game big time.
They also promised Steve that they would have the 90 nm process down pat by year’s end and 3 GHz chips by this time next year.
Steve passed that promise along. The buck stops at Steve but to hold him responsible for IBM’s, Pepsico’s or Motorola’s delays or screw ups is just being an A$$HOLE.
“Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface”
I am forced to use XP at work and I don’t know what this refers to. What is a “task-based interface” and how does it differ from anything else out there today? But speaking of tasks, I do know I hate the way XP stacks documents of the same application in the task pane. It requires one more step to pull up the page I want that I don’t need.
The only reason to liquid cool a CPU is if you have taken a slower CPU that is not able to be cooled by a traditional heatsink and overclock it to death, then it requires liquid to cool it. PC gamers have been doing this for years and there are businesses out there that do nothing but sell liquid cooling products to PC folks who overclock their CPUs.
Apple has taken the 1.8 gigger and overclocked it until it now requires a liquid cooling device. You are really paying for two 1.8 giggers and a liquid cooling device. Think about it. PC folks crank up their system bus speed and the result is an overclocked CPU. If you go to the Apple store the bus of the 2.5s is 125. Overclocked. IBM is no better off than any other CPU manufacturer out there. They hipe their product news to build excitement to raise their stock prices. EVERYBODY does it. O-V-E-R-C-L-O-C-K-E-D.
d: XP Sucks, but you can turn off that annoying stacking feature by going to the opening the “Task & Start Menu properties” and uncheck “Group simmilar taskbar buttons”.
Steve Jobs is a bigmouth fag. But Maczealots kiss his ass anyway.
Buckie
The new cooling system was designed for a 3 GHz chip that IBM was supposed to have ready by now. 2.5 GHz in quantity is the best IBM can do. Can you get your head around the fact that the cooling system is over-designed for the available chips? There is another reason.
Did Steve specifically a SINGLE 3GHz chip? From the quotes I’ve seen he stated that Apple will be at 3GHz. But he didn’t specify that would be reached with one chip. I would assume that all dual 2.5GHz would blow the doors off a single 3GHz, so who cares?
There is a banner hanging in one of the Microsoft buildings stating, “Longhorn: No more hangups, no more crashes, no more reboots”. Should Microsoft ever release the bloatware, everything on that banner will be a flat-out lie.
If I remember when Windows 95 was released Bill Gates said in three years we would have totally revamped our operating system. That was a lie and it wasn’t until 2001 6 years that Microsoft actually accomplished this with Windows XP. Gates also announced that in 2005 Microsoft will totally revolutionize it’s platform again … and now that doesn’t seem that it will happen until 2007 or even 2008. I won’t even start on Nvidia false claims I don’t have enough time.
So it’s not just Apple that does this type of hype of products it’s the entire computer market it’s just that Apple is still the poster child for computers and it seems that if they say that they are going to reach a mark … they better go above that mark.
I still have faith I think that Steve has something up his turtle neck sleeve or why would they announce a new computer this close to their show. The Mac faithful will shout ha I told you so.
Crap writer Turt-rot writes: Hey, where is the successor of the Intel’s Pentium 4 man?
hey thurrott, no mention of IBM’s lies in getting that 3GHz processor out faster huh?
thanks prick
guys.. go to macrumors to get the quote from the Apple guy regarding chips..
not surprisingly, he mentions they were on track, but didn’t forsee IBM production problems… and the powerbook g5 isn’t coming anytimes soon either.
what’s the big deal anyway? if you’re hanging on for a 3GHz you keep hanging, if you already went for the “slow” machines then you still got the fastest machine. oh and the quote was “Within 12 months, we will be at 3GHz … Believe me, this architecture has legs.” there’s nothing there about shipping. and if you want to really get pernickety, who is the “we” SJ refers to? presumably Apple will already be working on faster prototypes…
considering apple has 3% of the market, I’m quite surprised at the amount of press it gets. why, outside of it’s core user base, would anybody care?
ma: take a look at the Longhorn preview article linked above.
Apple is important because no matter how fucked up the company may be at any particular time Apple is the company that innovates and the others follow behind knocking off.
Bad as windows is, can you imagine how awful an OS it would have been without Apple around?
“considering apple has 3% of the market, I’m quite surprised at the amount of press it gets. why, outside of it’s core user base, would anybody care?”
Because what Apple has today determines what kind of technology PC users are going to be able to use in 12-24 months. Duh!
Why do you give Thurrott ANY space. The man is a shill and sycophant. Any creedence shown is like giving a mouse acookie. They just want milk too.
He is the definition of ID 10 T.
Calling Jobs a bald face liar is just going too far. A lot of people here need to go take a powder and detox. Thurrott is a chirping, carping idiot perched on the sidelines ready to pounce with the authority and following of a trash hauler.
Everybody, go back to work, and chill till Apple figures a way to chill a G5 Powerbook.
I only have a Titanium 400 but it is better then a window crap machine
Thurrott is a moron
“‘now the Power Mac G5 offers dual processor models across the board at 1.8GHz, 2GHz and 2.5GHz, for a substantial speed boost at the top of the line,’ that’s an exageration, because the 2.5 GHz model is not available now at all”
I suppose it’s how you read the comment above….. I read it that the new processors offer a spped boot, in all configerations, greater than previously available. Thurrott read it as: new computers are available to be purchased, right now.
I really think though, that we shouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth. The “new” systems look pretty darn good, maybe not at the 3 mark as so many of you have expected (or is that held your breath for?), but it is none the less a marked improvement.
I just wish Apple’d put the G5 in a PowerBook….. sigh…
“I am forced to use XP at work and I don’t know what this refers to. What is a “task-based interface” and how does it differ from anything else out there today? But speaking of tasks, I do know I hate the way XP stacks documents of the same application in the task pane. It requires one more step to pull up the page I want that I don’t need.”
Micro$oft’s “innovative” task-based interface is nothing more than buzzwords wrapped around this concept, they want your everyday computing experience to be the same as the job of a low paid laborer.
For example in XP to search from a window you have to:
1)Press F3 to open the search pane
2) You are presented with a list of 90% meaningless search options patented corporately-artistic green arrow buttons, and a picture of a gay dog asking you stupid questions.
3)Waste 10 seconds of your time skimming the options.
4)Click on “Search for All files” the only useful option.
4)FINALLY type in your search criteria
5)Click the search button.
Whereas Apple’s “inferior” interface requires the following steps to achieve the same result.
1)Click in search field and start typing…oh and it starts to query for what you type in instantly, narrowing down the options as you type.
So OS X does MORE in LESS than 1/5 the “tasks” as Windoze.
When Longhorn comes out EVERYTHING will be “task-based” like that. Trying to find files, trying to find contacts, email, etc. All of your digital entertainment files will be locked in WMP 10’s useless bloated interface.
“patented corporately-artistic green arrow buttons”
Should read as “with Microsoft’s patented corporately-artistic green arrow buttons”
Wow, a lot of you guys get pretty antsy in the pants when it comes to negative Apple news. Windows isn’t that bad. It just requires more babying than OSX.
Wait a sec… I agree Steve shouldn’t make such bold public predictions, or at least it is unwise especially with his current track record. But the guy only goes on the news he receives from the people that report things to him. Sure, he’s enthusiastic about his products and wants his customers to be too. And, by and large, he’s correct.
I dug up this link:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02/12/ibm_90nm_g5_chip/
You’ll notice that in Feb. of this year IBM itself (the chip supplier for the G5) was optimistic that they would be at 90nm and easily cruising to 3Ghz by summer. So, who’s fault is it that Apple hasn’t made the promise? Besides, AMD and Intel are having the same problems so, those of you out there who really have to care about this stuff and what platform is the fastest are all going to have to wait.
Where is “trustworthy computing” Thurrott? Or what about Longhorn or hell, even Windows XP SP2? So where is your column about Bill Gates being a bald-faced liar? A hypocritical jackass is what you are…
Stephen L. “As for Thurott, what’s the problem? Are you so blinded by your zeal for macs that one bloke can upset you so much. I read his website for an alternative view to the standard Apple line so often touted by mac websites.
Sometimes balance is good…”
And I suppose that sometimes you put vinegar in your coffee as well as sugar, spread shite on your bread as well as butter, piss in your gas tank as well as put gas in.
Plenty of alternative viewpoints out there without choosing Turdrot who is so obviously just being a troll to gain hit points.
Al, the reason IBM is going to 90nm CPUs is so they can run over 3ghz without liquid. Small die means cooler CPUs. Ask Intel why they just dumped billions of dollars fitting their factories for 90nm and 65nm processes. The reason the 2.5 runs with a liquid cool system is it is not a 90nm CPU, just an extremely overclocked 1.8. You change the system bus on a computer main board to overclock a processor in a computer so it will run at a higher frequency, and when you do this you have to run liquid. You buy the 2.5 you get old technology. Apple has done this in the past, they will do it again when they need to sell hardware. If their is not something more to this, how come nowhere on Apple’s site do you read anything about a new 90nm processor technology? It’s because Apple has painted flames on the 1.8 and called it a 2.5 LC edition. Is anyone else seeing this? Please logically respond. Please.
buck, these new g5s are not 90nm? I know apple has dumped old tech in the past on unsuspecting customers, you think now?
In your
” rel=”nofollow”>face, am I? Boo!
Steve didnt promise anything, he said the plan was to go 3gz by the end of summer, look at the video for yourselves http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf04/
but even so nothing beats the rev a 2Gz dual.
Mario, it’s a good thing your computer only has an on switch, or you might get confused. Try
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc03/
He says, at that time, “within 12 months” and a graphic split screen says exactly that as well.
The only thing worse than Thurrott is the mapple brown nosers making myriad excuses for Steve. Why? He doesn’t know you, and unless you have two grand and a need for more computer than most, doesn’t care about you. Get over it.
And Mario, because I know your time is valuable and don’t want to lose any Special Olympics training time, start watching about 1:40.00 in.
On the technical white paper on the G5 it is specifically said that these chips are 90nm.
[url=http://www.apple.com/powermac/pdf/PowerPCG5_WP_06092004.pdf]http://www.apple.com/powermac/pdf/PowerPCG5_WP_06092004.pdf[/url]
My bad, make it 1:50 in. Time is money……..or something.
No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer.
Hmmm, stop whining, damn.
1) The FIRST day of summer is June 21, it is still spring.
2) The current G5 kicks the shit out of Xeons and P4’s and I have the G5 to prove it. The “PC Press” couldn’t find their A*s with their hands tied behing their back.
3) Sure seems like a lot of Megahertz envy out there. Even Intel has owned up to the Megahertz Myth.
4) Apple is now selling a dual 2 gHz G5 with an 8x DVD drive for $500 less than days ago and a dual 2.5 G5 with a 1.25 gHz Bus and 8xDVD drive for the same price they were asking for the Dual 2.0.
5) If Steve Jobs HAD a 3.0 gHz G5, he wouldn’t say a word right now anyhow.
6) The next time someone posts about how the current G5 is inadequate, please tell us the specs of your current rig and how many Mars probes you are designing that require more computer than Apple sells now. My money is that most G5 complainers are wannabes running a G4 iMac and think playing Halo or Unreal Tournament is a good use for a $3000 + computer.
And noPC, if he DIDN’T have a 3.0 ghz g5, he wouldn’t say anything either. Would have been an ok plan a year ago too.
He has until June 23 to show the 3.0. It’s the same calendar everyone else uses. Sooner would be better, since he said “within” 12 months, but I am ready to give him all the time he needs.
One of the coolest things about the 2004 macworld video that Mario linked is the ipod discussion. Steve goes on and on, with a huge backround that simply says “MARKETSHARE” about how the ipod is dominating its small niche in the consumer electronics world. Funny how it matters for some products, and not for others, eh?
Steve is a heck of an emcee btw, these vids are great.
Looks like our friend Paul isn’t too good at the prediction business either. This chap has a few examples of Paul (incorrectly) predicting the demise of iTMS:
http://blog.wilsonet.com/archives/000106.html
But of course we should take Paul seriously, since he runs the “SuperSite for Windows!!!!” where Steve only runs a crummy computer company.
So Thurrott oozed his opinion once more. Who cares? It’s the same BS everytime. We’re paying far to much attention to this man. He’s the king of vaporware. I’ve talked to this guy, it’s a waste of time!
Has anyone read Pauls review on his powerbook purchase …
He complains that the sales person was trying to sell him accessory’s .. ahh no kidding that what they are suppose to do Paul “hint: sales person”.
You know I bet Paul even complains about his own wet dreams what a wast of internet space.
how come nowhere on Apple’s site do you read anything about a new 90nm processor technology? It’s because Apple has painted flames on the 1.8 and called it a 2.5 LC edition. Is anyone else seeing this? Please logically respond. Please.
Buckie please do us a favour and GO to the Apple site.
http://www.apple.com/powermac/
Then download the PPC G% white paper PDF (in the centre)
last page (15)
specs:
58 million transistors
90nm SOI process
66mm square die
It’s all there if you look.
IMHO the liquid cooling is there to quieten down the faster chips so the “wind tunnel noise” becomes less of a problem.
Also it will give them more headroom for future Mhz bumps, the problem is they can’t make them fast enough.
One ‘silver lining’ that no one seems to want to see:
Look at the benchmarks for the top-end 2.5 model!
Compare to opposition.
Imagine what it those benchmarks might be like if a dual-core ‘975’ ships at 3.2GHz, a 1.6GHz FSB, and DDR2 memory.
I’d settle for a missed target today, to have that in another year.
“One of the new Power Mac G5 systems is Apple’s first Power Mac with IBM Corp.’s new 90-nanometer PowerPC 970FX chip, which runs at 2.5GHz and features a 1.25GHz front-side bus. A total of three dual-processor configurations are available for order through Apple’s Web site or the company’s retail stores; the other two configurations use older PowerPC processors.
The high-end 2.5GHz Power Mac system features liquid cooling to remove heat from the processor. All PCs use some type of cooling technology, but most use a fan. Liquid cooling technology is generally found in high-end gaming PCs or special systems for high-performance computing or scientific applications.
The new 970FX processor is much smaller than its 0.13-micron predecessor, which means the heat from the CPU (central processing unit) is more concentrated, said Tom Boger, senior director of product marketing for Apple. The new chip is consuming roughly the same amount of power as the older chip, and a more sophisticated system is needed to remove the heat from the processor die.
Apple is using a closed-loop liquid cooling system comprised mostly of water with some propylene glycol, Boger said. It is transparent to the user and maintenance-free, he said.”
MDN: I’m finding that your headline for this article is incorrect in that there are no quote marks around the words “Tech writer”.
New rumour: paul is dead