“In a bid to get a head start on a budding recovery in the global economy, Creative Technology is flooding the stores with a staggering 90 new products between now and the end of the year. Most will be personal digital entertainment (PDE) devices, such as MP3 players and cameras,” Bryan Lee reports for The Singapore Straits Times.
Lee reports, “Chairman and chief executive Sim Wong Hoo said yesterday: ‘We are moving away from a heavy dependence on the sound card and personal computer markets.’ Holding up one of its latest models – the Nomad Jukebox Zen – he proudly declared the slim, silver aluminium pocket-sized device was ‘better looking’ than rival Apple Computer’s pert but pricier iPod.”
Full article here.
Well, Mr. Some One Who has always wanted to get a BIGGER disc.
I guess he got confused and thought that Apple (Computer) was Apple Adult novelties of Bellingham, WA.
WOW! It’s got USB 2 in it, the ‘ultra fast’ solution for transfering media!
Now that I have taken my tongue out of my cheek….. It looks OK, has decent battery life, has an autosync type function, and is fairly light. It should sell well if Creative immerse the market.
Still…. it’s not an iPod, and never will be. The Creative site doesn’t mention whether it can be used as an external hard disk drive, or if the OS is upgradable, or how the battery is charged.
Keep working at it Creative, you are copying faily well, but you still need some more work.
The Zen is much bigger and heavier than the iPod. It won’t fit comfortably in your pocket, unless you have really baggy pants.
I’m sorry, but nothing is ever going to compare to the ease of use as an iPod. The scroll wheel design is fantastic and makes navigation a breeze. The Nomad would be a great alternative if the iPod didn’t exist, but the iPod will always beat it (Now, if Apple would just lower the price, they would have the market cornered!)
Well, he’s entitled to his opinion, but in my personal opinion, the Zen doesn’t come close to the iPod…and this is coming from a PC user. I’ve been absolutely thrilled with my 15GB iPod and wouldn’t trade it for a Zen plus $100 any day of the week…
The Nomad Zen is definitely not “better looking” than the iPod. It is, however, “better” than the iPod. That’s because it’s half as much money for the same storage space, supports the superior Windows Media Audio format, and offers much, much better battery life than the new iPods. So you eletists can keep yammering away, but it’s a better product for most people.
And yes, Birdseed, Creative’s site DOES mention that it CAN be used as an external hard drive. Twice the capacity at half the price, you know, power for the rest of us. And it’s not “much bigger” than the iPod at all, Nick. Normal pockers work just fine.
Everyone who thinks the iPod is easy to use obviously doesn’t have a new model. The new scrollwheel is too easy to hit by mistake, unlike the old-style mechanical version, causing all kinds of mayhem and frustration during playback unless you “lock” it, which isn’t always what you want. The Nomad Zen, predictably, doesn’t have this problem. Yet another area in which Creative is outdoing Apple.
Oh, and by the way, Creative was the first company to release a hard drive-based MP3 player. You might say they “innovated” the category (you certainly would if Apple did it first) and that Apple is playing catch-up. The iPod is a great machine, but the Nomad Zen gives the lead firmly back to Creative, obviously. Or it would be obvious if you opinionated people had actually USED these devices.
WMA is superior eh? How come there are so many complaints about the BuyMusic.com trax having static, DRM up the arse and poor sound quality. Doesn’t sound superior to me.
Besides, the Zen isn’t all that easy to use and still has syncing problems. Give it up…
Paul,
The Nomad Zen and Nomad Zen NX both weigh significantly more than the iPod and both are substantially larger than the iPod. Creative fails in the most important feature for a portable music player – portability.
As I have used both extensively and own both versions of the iPod, it is extremely clear that the iPod is significantly easier to navigate and use, but beyond that, the interface is much, much more flexible. The Creative interface is convoluted at best.
“…supports the superior Windows Media Audio format…” Well, that’s been debunked time and again. Every independent sound quality analysis has proven WMA to be sorely lacking in depth, high-range reproduction, and clarity. WMA is a pathetic proprietary format that only you Wintel fools promote. No readers of MDN are stupid enough to listen to your blabbering on this subject – you are obviously out of your element.
By the way, it’s not “eletists”, it’s ELITISTS. Now troll back to the unwashed masses.
*Laugh*
” Holding up one of its latest models – the Nomad Jukebox Zen – he (Sim Wong Hoo) proudly declared the slim, silver aluminium pocket-sized device was ‘better looking’ than rival Apple Computer’s pert but pricier iPod.”
That’s funny, what’s he supposed to say? “Well it’s not a good looking as the iPod, but we’ll hope you like it…”
Personally I don’t think the Creative devices hold a candle to the Apple ones, despite any price difference. You usually get what you pay for. If the cheaper models work for you, then that’s great, but I certainly find a difference.
Paul, you obviously don’t actually have a new ipod, or you would realize that the ‘sensitivity’ problem you describe doesn’t exist. With the old model (and all other mp3 players) any object in or out of your pocket can push in the mechanical buttons. The new buttons in addition to keeping out lint/sand/etc., only respond to human touch. Which means there is a much smaller chance of interrupting playback of a song.
Furthermore, with the new button layout the three button that will interrupt playback (<<, >>, and >/||) are all arranged in a line rather than stretching around the scroll wheel. This means they occupy smaller space and are thus easier to avoid with your fingers.
The new ipod is the most elegant and easy-to-use mp3 player out there, period. That explains why it’s selling better than the zen even though it costs more.
Has anyone tested the Nomad Zen jogging? If it can’t play well while I’m in motion its no good.
Also, what is the quality of stereo playback. You can argue about codecs as they stand, but how good are the electronics on this device?
And, 50% heavier is a big deal.
And, does it have a software program that automatically syncs up playlists?
When the zen occupies 50% of the market, I’ll declare it the frontrunner. Until then…
iPod.
The new Zen NX is smaller than the original Zen. As far as the electronics, the quality is unmatched as far as the output goes. 98dB signal to noise ratio – iPod is far below that. As far as one critical point though – no Mac drivers or AAC support. It really sucks not being able to use the Nomad players with iTunes. The exception here would be my Nomad MuVo and Jukebox original. I am trying to get some 3rd party people the stuff they need to make an iTunes plug-in, but I doubt it will happen. Especially with all of the PC related online service releases. Notice the player of choice on buymusic.com? There are several other services coming too that will work with the Nomad players. As a side note, there is a contest on Creative.com where you can win speakers and a MuVo NX. I am trying to get the raw video to encode it into QuickTime so we don’t need Real Audio or Windows Media. If I can get it, I’ll post it to my .mac account: http://homepage.mac.com/creativemail/
Brian
Did any of you both to check the specs before posting. I would not normally get into a product pissing match, but your info is way off the mark.
Zen NX:
4.4″ x 3″ x 0.86″ – 7.9 oz with the battery
iPod 30GB:
4.1″x 2.4″ x 0.73″ – 6.2 oz with battery (?)
Check for yourself:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html
BTW – notice that Apple does not give you the audio specs on the iPod. Rumor has it that the SNR is only 86 or 87 dB.
ZEN: (Right Out There Where You Can Find It)
Signal to Noise Ratio: up to 98dB
Channel Separation: up to 75dB
Frequency Response: 20Hz – 20kHz
Harmonic Distortion Output: <0.1%
87 to 98 dB might not seem like much of a jump, but remember this is a linear number. An easier way to picture the difference would be to add a zero to the end of each number. Now this is more in line with your other figures you were using for the size. Even my Nomad MuVo has a 93 dB SNR.
http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?product=1227&category=2&maincategory=2&nav=spec
Charging is performed on the power cord (included) or the USB port.
The original Zen had 1394 and USB, but feedback from our target PC audience said they wanted faster USB and would not use 1394. We found that even with all of the Audigy cards we sold with 1394, only about 4 to 5% of the potential market had 1394. Even Apple has figured this out since they added USB 2 to the doc on the new iPod. In fact, they are touting transfer rates up to 480 Mbs. 1394A = 400 Mbs / USB 2.0 = 480 Mbs – even though you will probably never see the 480 Mbs and 1394 is better.
The new Zen NX can have the user replace the battery too. I believe someone told me it is like $200+ to get Apple to replace the battery.
I would agree the iPod controls are very intuitive, but an additional 5 to 10 minutes moving around the Zen is all you need to get up to speed. You will be creating play lists on the PC most of the time any way. Did Apple ever add the ability to create play lists away from the PC?
The DSP functions of the Zen are well beyond the capabilities of the iPod – including the noise canceling capabilities – it enhances the frequencies where the jet engine or what ever would interfere with your listening experience.
The hard drive does work as an external hard drive, and it will work natively with explorer shortly. And you can run with it. The 8MB of memory is more than enough. The 25 minutes of skip protection is ridiculous. If you make a skip that would require the player to not be able to track the hard drive for 25 minutes, you are probably a splatter on the pavement some where.
buymusic.com had some unfortunate internal system problems which caused the music to be distorted. They have supposedly fixed the music be re-encoding it all. Hopefully they will resolve some of their interface issues, and all will be well. The only people that can win are consumers. buymusic.com is the least of Apple Music store’s worries – there are 4 or 5 other music services launching this fall. The advantage is the ease of use and elegance that has always been part of the Mac platform. Maybe Creative will come back to the Mac platform with its PDE products in the future. Right now – Mac users have the best platform and a great music player that work together well.
My friend has a Zen – only because the store didn’t have any iPods left – sold out of course, now he claims, that the Zen is much better than the iPod, but he’s just jealous and also an ignorant PC troll.
I’ve been using a portable music player for much longer than him, and when I first saw his zen and got to play around with it, it soon became obvious to me, that the Zen is far behind my iPod – and mine’s even a 1st gen. The zens interface is as lousy as on most pc-things, the screen is tiny and doesn’t at all compare to the one on the iPod. In spite of this, the ipod is still smaller and more elegant.
And the software for the zen… oh dear… let’s just not discuss that nightmarish piece of incredibly unlogical, ugly software.
I guess it’ll always be the iPod for me, unless Creative REALLY starts getting GOOOOOD ideas…
My friend has a Zen – only because the store didn’t have any iPods left – sold out of course, now he claims, that the Zen is much better than the iPod, but he’s just jealous and also an ignorant PC troll.
I’ve been using a portable music player for much longer than him, and when I first saw his zen and got to play around with it, it soon became obvious to me, that the Zen is far behind my iPod – and mine’s even a 1st gen. The zens interface is as lousy as on most pc-things, the screen is tiny and doesn’t at all compare to the one on the iPod. In spite of this, the ipod is still smaller and more elegant.
And the software for the zen… oh dear… let’s just not discuss that nightmarish piece of incredibly unlogical, ugly software.
I guess it’ll always be the iPod for me, unless Creative REALLY starts getting GOOOOOD ideas…
oops… sorry about the double post…
Brian Souder:
Your post displaying the size/weight comparison only reinforces our prior remarks. By the way, you cite the size/weight of the Zen NX whereas the article specifically speaks to the Zen (different device):
4.43″ x 3″ x 0.95″ – 9.5 oz with the battery
http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?product=732&category=2&maincategory=2&nav=spec
It should also be noted that the most popular iPod, the 15GB model, has the following dimensions:
4.1″ x 2.4″ x 0.62″ – 5.6 oz
The iPod is only 59% as heavy and is only 48% as large as the Nomad Zen (12.63 cubic inches vs 6.1 cubic inches for the iPod).
I would think that a device that is half the size and weighs virtually half as much is significantly more portable. How can that be disputed?
Your citing of SNR and Channel Separation are fairly meaningless since besides stating “up to” for each, you neglect to acknowledge that the primary culprit in sound reproduction is poor encoding, and the WMA format has been repeatedly shown by independent analysis to be inferior to AAC in this regard. (Of course, we are comparing literally apples and oranges here since WMA is a format that was specifically created by Microsoft to support their DRM whereas AAC was developed by Dolby and Sony to produce quality sound.)
“Did Apple ever add the ability to create play lists away from the PC?” Yes – On-The-Go playlists.
Apple built USB 2.0 support in specifically for the Windows market. No Mac user in their right mind would pick USB 2.0 over the far superior Firewire (1394A) – as you acknowledge. The viability of the Nomad Zen (or NX) is limited among Mac users since you have removed 1394 support – but you acknowledge that PC users are your target. Hmmm…Despite being only 3%-10% of the PC install base (depending on what propaganda you subscribe to), Mac users are a far greater portion of the portable media market – due in part to the higher demographic of the typical Mac user vs the typical Wintel user.
The iPod is the number one portable device for more than just its size, quality, and useability, though. The iPod’s seemless synching of all of my music AND contacts, calendar, to-dos, and notes have allowed me to give up my Palm altogether. The iPod does so much more than any other devices out there that it effectively integrates itself into the life of its owner. We don’t just pull it out to listen to music; rather we listen to more music because the iPod is always with us.
It is great that you could get your date and calendar on the Mac to work with your iPod. As a matter of fact, I believe you can get those features to work with the add-on software for the Zen (free download for users who want those features). Do those features work with Music Match on the PC for iPod? I had heard they do not. You have to shift out of Mac user mode for this conversation. I am certain the Zen could be made to do all the same things on the closed Mac environment. Let�s face it though; software on the PC side is an entirely different animal. There are many standards and vendors to contend with. It will be interesting to see if iTunes for Windows will be as good as the Mac version. I hope so. The Zen also works with all the other major music programs out there, so it is not just limited to Music Match or Media Source player. As far a s the interface goes for Media Source, it has more options as the source you can draw from. That is why it is more confusing. I did not like the Media Source software at first after iTunes. It grows on you. So far, I have found the Media Source to be the best user experience on the PC side, and it is free with the player.
Current article, not current product. If they are going to do this, then they should have used the old iPod too. Zen NX has been announced and should show up on the shelf in most major retailers next week. One quick check of the Creative site would have yielded this for the product research. I am a Mac user as well, so you do not have to defend iPod to me on Mac. The reason the 15GB iPod is so popular is because the others are too expensive. Besides � you are still not talking about the same size unit. Let�s stick to the two 30GB models. I might as well compare the iPod 10 or 15 GB to the Nomad MuVo then. And how is that battery life while you are at it.
First of all, the audio specs were a specific question. Second, sighting the audio specifications of the device is very important. I don�t care how clean your source is, if you don�t have good electronic circuits, it will sound like crap. It is relevant; so don�t try to brush it aside because you have no facts to back it up. To some degree I would agree with you on the encoding however, but the differences in audio format output quality can be negated by the fact I can just encode at a higher rate. If my 60GB Zen cost less than your 30GB iPod, I can use 320 Kbs all day long if that floats your boat. Most people cannot tell the difference between a 128 AAC and a 192 MP3. I let the techies dispute the encoding. Besides, if you want to go there, why not just load the files in WAV? The Zen can play WAV files back. Even better though, a simple codec update would allow for AAC playback. I am sure licensing issues interfered with this.
You are right � no Mac user would pick USB over 1394, but we are talking about iPod on Windows. The Zen is not trying to compete with iPod on Mac. I am sure they would put 1394 back into the device if they were marketing to Macintosh. I bet it is a lot easier for a PC user to find a USB plug than a 1394 port. I think even a small piece of the larger PC market will always add up to more of the Mac market as a whole. I�m a Mac user � you just have to give that one up no matter how you play with the numbers. I think you better go back and check your numbers on iPod being number one in sales. I think we have probably sold more of the original Jukebox alone than all iPod’s combined. The newer Nomad players are even in higher demand. It would be interesting to look at if you have the latest sales figures though.
You know what is even funnier – Mr. Sim was expressing his opinion. Why must we feel as Mac users we have to beat all other products down – even when they are not competing in the Mac market.
Thanks Paul, I didn’t see the info on the external drive capability on the web site.
The Zen will be seen natively in the explorer SOON? What the? Not the best interoperability, I’d say…..
OK everyone, let’s have a break on this one. It’s like comparing apples and oranges (ha, what a bad joke!)…..
sorry…..