“HMS Daring, the first of the Royal Navy’s £6 billion fleet of six Type 45 Destroyers, thundered down the slipway into the River Clyde in Glasgow today, spouting red, white and blue confetti from her formidable stern,” Simon Freeman reports for The Times Online. “Weighing 7,350 tonnes, her 14 decks bristling with the latest military technology, Daring’s successful launch – on time and within budget – is seen as a symbol of rebirth in the Clydeside shipbuilding yards which faced devastation six years ago.”
“The Defence Secretary said the launch was a proud day for the Royal Navy. ‘It’s a huge boost for the Royal Navy because this is the most capable, most powerful destroyer ever built in the UK,’ he said,” Freeman reports. “HMS Daring’s 230-strong crew should be happy too. She and her sisters will be the first “gender-neutral” warships to enter Royal Navy service, and the Hotel Facilities, as the living quarters are known, are the most opulent ever fitted in a British warship. Mess decks are replaced by individual cabins, each with their own iPod charging points, CD player, internet access, five channel recreational audio and larger berths.”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews reader “Stoo” for the heads up.]
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I heard about this on the radio and had to look it up because I didn’t quite catch the name and thought that HMS Caring was a bit of an odd name for a warship.
Nothing like rockin out to AC/DC while you’re firing missles at Iraq.
Amen Imax
Sweet I wish we had that when I was in the service… oh well
If the Type 45 Destroyer’s a rockin’…
I bet the British troops in Iraq, sat in the sand without adequate body armour, are really pleased about how the MOD spends its budget.
Shameful.
Absolutely imax!!!
Though to answer Dave H the budget which includes the iPod docks would’ve been agreed upon at least two years ago, after all a ship let alone a type 45 class Destroyer can’t be built in a year or a day!
I wonder when it comes to the offical launch of HMS Daring with her majesty the Queen, in her 80th birthday year, would instead record a podcast onto her own iPod mini, silver, then simply plug that in to carry out the ceremony? After that the podcast made public on iTunes, so the crew aboard can listen to that over and over….along with AC/DC to each missile launch!
For heavens sake it’s not a cruise liner it’s a WARSHIP that carries missiles and other high power weapons which kill and injure people. Now they’re kitted out with iPod chargers and internet access? Disgraceful. Sooner George W. Bush & poodle Tony realise that War never solves anything the better.
This world is fscked up BIG TIME. Too many megalomaniacs hell bent on world domination, it almost feels like I’m in Austin Powers.
MW: attack. I don’t think so. Peace all the way.
Any chance of heading it straight towards Sky and giving them an offer they can’t refuse? Should make a nice target.
Jamie Kelly: When was the last time you actually heard of a British warship shooting missiles at anyone? Never. They just do their little war maneuvers and games and play around in the ocean for six months at a time. There’s no reason why the people on the ship shouldn’t have a little bit of comfort. Those ships are notoriously UNcomfortable.
http://www.g-zus.net/
G-ZUS, I must have imagined the Kuwait invasion then. I remember WATCHING the Royal Navy firing from the ocean right into Kuwait to soften up the targets before the troops went in. £6 billion for a fleet that ‘does war maneuvers and games’ for six months? It makes me even more angry that my money is being wasted on a ship which you claim doesn’t actually do anything! Unbelieveable.
And these death ships should be uncomfortable. The Navy crew are not on fsckin’ holiday, they’re at work. They know what the job entails, so they should live with it.
JustSayNoToWar
“I-pod” sigh.
until you’ve spent several combat cruises on any type of warship, you really haven’t got anything to say about this. any type of creature comfort is welcome. as far as the “poor” soldiers sitting in the sand: they chose to join the army; that’s what the army does. and, as far as the little left-wing wankers are concerned: since the beginning of human existance there has always been someone who wants what someone else has. the military exists to ensure that little crybabies like you are able to piss and moan in complete safety. so, shut up and enjoy the freedom others have earned for you. and, yes, i am retired from the United States Navy; that great “waste” that ensures that all nations are free to screw themselves up as they wish.
I sure hope someone on board has British Sea Power on their iPod (a cool new band that, to old farts like me, sounds like a cross between Joy Division and the Psychedelic Furs).
Speaking non-politically, one of the few things that keep the, uh, “morale” up in Iraq or anywhere else for military personnel these days is e-mail and internet access. While both may seem odd to those who’ve never served, its a part of home for the troops. Those that don’t know can’t imagine how important access to home is. During my time in I was just hoping letters would make it in.
It’s also probably similar to why Club Med is a lot more plush than Sing Sing-paying customers(volunteers) vs. cons(conscripts). If you want to keep them coming, you’ve got to offer the goodies.
“And these death ships should be uncomfortable. The Navy crew are not on fsckin’ holiday, they’re at work. They know what the job entails, so they should live with it.”
Even criminals are given more luxury in the US prison systems then what you are describing, Jamie.
If I am to risk my life for my country, I think a little comfort while I am NOT on duty is not too much to ask. Besides, it probably boosts the morale of everyone on board. And you would you want manning a Howitzer – a disgruntled, miserable soldier or one who is more refeshed?
Jamie Kelly, I appreciate your posts. Glad to see some people can see thru the fog.
Peace.
I look forward to reading about the first deaf naval officer suing apple
“I was told to bomb Iraq, but I thought he said Iran”
Ya big jobby
Hey billysmom
If you read my post without closing off your mind first, my point is that the MOD is sending British troops into war zones without the full compliment of combat kit. To my mind fixing that is a damn sight more important than installing a few extra home comforts on a ship.
And I bet the majority of serving seamen (or is it seapersons these days?) in the Royal Navy would agree with me.
Dave H:
I think the MOD is following the lead of the Pentagon.
Jamie Kelly,
Why don’t you go travel to the middle east and try to preach your peaceful ways to them. Try the mountains in Pakistan along the border of Afghanistan and see how those peaceful people react to you. Your head would be separated from your body in a nano second you moron. Those psychos want to kill every last one of us non muslims. They want to take away all of your rights. They want to be able to do unspeakable things to you and your family whenever they want. They want to Nuke us out of existence. You are damn lucky that the US and British leaders understand this. We did not start this. These people are lunatics. Get used to it.
Dave H,
Don’t get your panties in a bunch sister.
Auggie, pretty racist of you eh? What ‘psychos’ are you referring to? The people whose country has been invaded, or the people in Washington who put our troops in harms way to begin with?
Vast generalisation is NOT an argument. Saying ‘they’ instead of ‘who’ (ie: names) just shows you actually have no idea what you are talking about, and prefer to tow the official line and therefore agree to this unjust ‘War’ (more like one sided bombardment).
Why would I want to travel to the mountains in Pakistan? I’ve got internet access dummy, and if I can at least get people like you think then I’m halfway there.
P.S. If you’re looking for lunatics, there was one on TV the other night who has only just realised that his country are “addicted to oil” and used the word God to justify his manic ideology.
Does this mean they (the Royal Navy) are no longer using “Windows for Warships”? [Shudder!]
See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/05/mod_oks_win2k_warships/
Chris
Cheap shot. I take it you don’t have any relatives in the Armed forces. If you did, you might give a shit.
Jamie Kelly,
Lunatics = Muslims. NOT RACIST just plain fact. You are a complete idiot not to realize that. They are the barbarians that will nuke your city, cut your head off, torture you at will, take away freedom of speach, rape your wife, kill your infant, and be able to do it legally if they get their goal and take over the world. Why is it that you practically never hear any muslims condemn terrorists or muslim people shooting at American troops but they get all worked up when americans defend themselves and if a Danish paper prints a cartoon? Give me a break tree hugger. Thank god you have no power in life. These muslims would crucify you if you were in charge you weak minded little sissy.
Auggie, there is a well known phrase by Abraham Lincoln you should have tattooed on your forehead:
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
You also say:
“Lunatics = Muslims. NOT RACIST just plain fact.”
A classic example of a contradiction if ever I saw one… no point arguing with racist idiots like you, I bet you think all gay people should be shot too.
One more thing – ‘they’ (I’d really like to know who exactly you are referring to) can’t “nuke my city” because little George and his poodle Tony won’t let anyone have nuclear toys except his buddies.
I have to agree with Auggie. Jamie Kelly your head is in the sand.
One more thing Auggie, if they “nuke my city” then they won’t be able to “cut my head off, torture me at will, take away my freedom of speech, rape my wife and kill my infant” because the chances of surviving a nuclear blast are practically nil, or is the list you gave as a response in no particular order?
Jamie Kelly,
Muslims do not, I repeat do not, respect your rights at all. They hates gays, that’s for sure.
Well if you want to look at it this way Mr. or is it Mrs. Kelly, after they nuke your city they will come in and then cut heads off, torture at will, take away freedom of speech, rape wives and kill infants at will to all survivers. Keep trying to not offend anyone and hope that the boogie people will leave you alone. Hate to break the news to you little one, but that’s not how it works.
Wow, I really have thumped the hornets nest here… never realised there were so many openly racist Mac users in the world.
FYI, Christianity has a much bloodier history than any other religion. It just wasn’t broadcast on CNN for all you brain-washed Americans to lap up.
JK,
That’s a good one. Bring up Christianity’s mishaps from centuries ago to justify the terrorist muslim faith. Brialliant. Way to try to change the subject.
This Jamie Kelly character really is living in a fantasy world!
After living in the Middle East for a decade I can tell you for a fact that muslims hate the West because they are not followers of the Koran. The Koran tells them to kill all non believers. No what Mr. Kelly?
Mr. Kelly,
These people are fanatics and only understand force. They laugh at idiots like you. You are what makes them think they can win. You pussy!
Jamie Kelly = Drama Queen
What a bunch of racists!!
You guys are morons. The Koran doesn’t tell people to “kill all non believers.” The only people who believe that are racist idiots.
I love it when you right wing wackos justify our invasions and oil wars by saying that the Other Guys might use nukes. The only country that has EVER been insane enough to use nukes was the U.S. It’s true, Iraq had some chemical weapons, but they were sold by the U.S. to Hussein (remember Rummy’s little congratulatory visit to Hussein in 1982, AFTER they had gassed the kurds?). And Hussein, like Noriega and the Taliban and the rest of our awful enemies, was an American puppet whose troups were armed, funded, and trained by the U.S.
Get a clue. Turn off Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and read a freaking newspaper, sheeple.
Actually i agree with Jamie, now can we talk about mac er ipods whatever?
“Lunatics = Muslims. NOT RACIST just plain fact. You are a complete idiot not to realize that. They are the barbarians that will nuke your city, cut your head off, torture you at will, take away freedom of speach, rape your wife, kill your infant, and be able to do it legally if they get their goal and take over the world.”
Kind of funny really, because a lot of that stuff that could just as easily be applied to Serbians (who were mainly Russian Orthodox or Catholic) who committed atrocities in Bosnia. Or applied to Japanese soldiers occupying China or Korea before and during WWII. Or Russian soldiers chasing through Poland and Germany immediately prior to the Nazi surrender. And – with the exception of cutting heads off – it could also be applied to the behaviour of American forces at various times: after all, the USA is still the only power to have used a nuclear weapon in anger.
And let’s not forget that – prior to 9/11 – the single biggest terrorist outrage on US soil that killed innocent civilians, including many infants, was committed by good ol’ boy Timothy McVeigh, which doesn’t sound like much of a Muslim name to me.
Still, I wouldn’t want logic and reason to get in the way of a good bit of racist generalisation.
isn’t it interesting that, whenever a non-caucasian, non-christian, non-westerner objects to any form of imposition by any other group, he is branded as a “racist”? i cannot think of anything more racist than muslims, orientals, and blacks. if the world was as it should be, the West would get over its penchant for freaking political correctness and just sweep the planet clean. muslims can violate every aspect of Western culture with impunity; yet, heaven forbid that their stupid holy book is even touched by an “infidel”. the old mantra definitely applies here: “the only good one is a dead one”. otherwise, where is the outrage by the muslim world at the perversion of their so-called religion by wacko groups like the taliban, the baathists, and the nut-job in iran? where was the cooperation from the wahabist scumbags in saudi arabia after the kobar towers bombing? where is the outrage from the left-wing press when a westerner is abused at the hands of some uneducated religious zealot? the silence from them is deafening. let the bombs fall; its time to rid the world of the cancer that is everything non-western.
Billysmom
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
MCCFR is, as usual, uninformed. in world war two, the west was facing an implacable, unyielding enemy. the decision to use the then-new nuclear weapon was taken after a great deal of thought. the japanese are the poster boys for wartime atrocities; don’t even begin to condemn the United States for using the bomb against them. after all, it took two of these unimaginably powerful weapons befor these nasty little ant-people got the message. if we hadn’t used the bomb to end the war when we did, it was, apparently, only a matter of days before the japs would have used a dirty bomb on the US west coast. have not the slightest sympathy for those creatures; i’d much rather live in a world as it now is, than one in which the nazis and japanese had won. and, so would you. as usual, here we have a non-American looking his gift-horse in the mouth. were it not for the Americans, as usual, europe would be under the boot-heel of the nazis to this day. as usual, you need to count your blessings, and give thanks that a country, any country, as outstanding as the United States exists. for all our failing, and there are many, we have, if nothing else, brought a measure of freedom to the vast majority of people in the world. the alternative is unthinkable.
Gary:
“Christian” Nazi Germany killed six million Jews, exploiting the Blood Myth and other anti-semitic propaganda that has been used by both Catholic and Protestant Christianity as just cause for the persecution of Jews for the best part of a thousand years.
That happened only sixty years ago. And it represents more murders of Jews than have ever been committed by Palestinians or any other Islamic community.
“Christian” Serbs from within Bosnia and Serbia, as well as Croatians tried to wipe out a Muslim community (Bosnia) by killing Muslim men and raping Muslim women and girls. That happened less than fifteen years ago.
“Christian” members of the Ku Klux Klan have been implicated in murdering African-Americans and spreading anti-semitic propaganda in the last forty years.
The Truth: talk is cheap; where are the muslim troops? where are the mobs of outraged muslims routing out the iraqi insurgents, and handing them, bound and gagged, over to the American or Coalition forces? where are the outraged American muslims reporting suspicious or un-American activities observed by their fellows? you can “call for whatever” until the sky falls; let’s see some action. otherwise, this in in the same catagory as the fifty-thousand UN resolutions passed calling for saddam to disarm and to allow unfettered inspection. where are the syrian troops preventing insurgents from passing thru their border? where are the pakistani troops and civilians cleansing their frontier with iraq; searching for terrorists? the saudis still, apparently, teach sharia “law” in their schools; suppress women; and refuse to allow American law-enforcement to investigate crimes. actions speak louder than words; all see so far is a lot of hot air.
right/wrong
good/bad
when will we take a breathe and realise how precious each and every life is….
Billysmom >
Firstly, I’m not arguing whether the USA was right to use an A-Bomb (although I think the detonation over Nagasaki was premature and excessive, given that Japan was probably still absorbing the damage that had occurred at Hiroshima) – my argument is when “redneck” types start spouting off about how “evil” all Muslims are. I’m a Jew – I have Muslim friends and have had since I was five years old. I was bought up in a multi-cultural community, whilst most of the people who comment on this website have probably never even met a Muslim, but feel that watching Fox News gives them a right to comment on a subject they know nothing about.
But, as you opened up the subject, when US servicemen committed rape and murder during the Vietnam war, how was that justified? Presumably, they were defending freedom.
Interesting that you refer to Japanese as “little ant-people” – says a lot about you really, you racist fsckwit.
MCCFR: those reprehensible acts that you detail had nothing to do with christianity: the nazis paid only lip service: the blaming of the jews was used as a tool to unite the country in the aftermath of the humiliating treaty of versailles. the serbs were attempting to right a perceived wrong that occurred over 600 years ago. the klan are just plain nuts. christianity is supposed to be about loving one’s neighbor; at not time did jesus preach hatred or killing. these groups use their faith, as do the militant muslim terrorists, as a tool to justify their thirst for power and control. they were, and are, anathema to the true intent of their faith; they were, and should be, hunted down to the last man.
Sorry, but I gotta agree with billysmom, at least, in general. I don’t think the Japs are “ant people”, but I do think that if you were somehow able to total up all of the atrocities committed by westerners/Americans and tally that against those committed by Muslim extremists, it’s not even close.
I can’t believe Billysmom just used the phrase “where are the outraged American muslims reporting suspicious or un-American activities observed by their fellows?”.
Is (s)he channelling the ghost of Joseph McCarthy, or is (s)he just an idiot?
Let’s go back to trial by accusation – that’s a great model for a democracy.
What a putz.
MW: schools – possibly a place where Billysmom should have gone.
MCCFR: i thought perhaps that you were Jewish. i have always found anti-Semitism puzzling; Jewish people are very industrious and hard-working. i knew lots of Jews when i was in the military; they were, without exception, excellent folks. and i say this as a person of German-Russian extraction. the japanese at the time of the second world war were exactly ant-like; they had a hive mentality and could not embrace the concept of each person having value. only the whole mattered; the individual was without worth. if that isn’t ant behavior, i don’t know what is. currently, i work with Israelis, Japanese, and even a few muslims. individually, they’re all great folks.
MCCFR: we’re at war; during WWII, people of German extraction were treated with suspicion. i was denied a top-secret security clearance because i had distant relative behind the iron curtain. i had to undergo extensive backround checks for everything, simply because i was German. i was born and raised in America; yet, i still had to deal with the cold war mentality.
so, don’t go off with the mccarthy stuff.
How do iPod docks on a new warship relate to Muslims and atrocities?
Bizarre.
But all I can say is that anyone who seriously objects to a few amenities for soldiers and sailors serving their country and defending freedom in tin cans on the high seas is just . . . wacko.
Billysmom >
Interesting turnabout – thanks for falling into line.
Not all Muslims are evil. Not all Christians are evil. Etc.
The problem is with people who choose to follow faith in a selective and extreme way: it was easy for “Christian” Nazi Germany to exploit anti-semitism, because there were just enough simple-headed dickheads to buy into it. It’s easy for Bin Laden or the leaders of Hammas to find “martyrs” because there are just enough simple-headed dickheads to buy into it.
Can we spot a pattern emerging?
“Faith”, for want of a better word, is a great rallying flag for bigots and megalomaniacs. Because you can always find someone – well a lot of people sadly – who’ll swallow any bull*h*t because they’re too ignorant or lazy to go and find their own opinion and who are too willing to blame some other group for their own problems.
I just get royally pissed off with people who can’t tell the difference between people of faith and people who use faith as a way of promoting hate. Personally, I’m an atheist – but if spirituality gives you some comfort or inspiration then go knock yourself out, so long as it doesn’t inspire to go kill someone else because they don’t think the same way you do.
Moderator..!!!!???
Last time I checked overt acts of racism is an offence in most civilised societies.
When the hell is the moderator going to moderate this thread and act by cutting the racist comments? They add nothing to the ‘debate’ and only belittle the authors and the rest of us.
I do not want to read racist bile being spilled out by the likes of auggie [his threads should be deleted] and billysmom [his/her threads should be deleted]. Their comments make me feel sick. I’ve spent my life opposing intolerance such as this, I don’t want it here.
To all the anti-muslims on this thread, if you bothered to read anything other than Fox/CNN, et al, you’d realise that most muslims – from clerics down – DO condemn the outrages against ‘westerners’ and have been since the beginning.
Most of the European press has been carrying stories about local Imams in the UK for example that totally condemned the bombings in the UK. The French press has equally been quoting Imams and other religious figures in Marseille and Toulon [which both have large Algerian/North African muslim populations] for example who have also been condemning similar acts.
Assuming the racists to be American [and I live in NYC], please try and read the Guardian/BBC in the UK or try Liberation/Le Monde in France, they’re freely available in your part of the country I’m sure. There you’ll see a more balanced world view that includes other opinions than jingoistic ones.
I just love the names the British give their ships: HMS Daring, HMS Valiant, HMS Bodacious, HMS Totally Frickin Awesome…
I have to say i’m extremely saddened and disappointed to witness the awful messages that have been posted on this thread. I guess I’m a fairly average politically-central, anti-extremism, pro-free speech kind of person, but the vitriol and closed-mindedness with which people have jumped in and uttered the most vile things is astounding.
I’d say it’s about time that either these forums were properly moderated, or could be posted to only by registered members (which, in my experience, drastically improves the quality of contributions).
Saddened, disappointed:
Right On
Saddened Dissapointed and the like,
You misdirect your feelings at your allies. Like or not you are at war with western hating, muslim, psyco paths. Regular muslim people do nothing to combat this. They aide and abet by not turning these nut cases in and going up in arms everytime the most tiny of tiny things happen against them. These people are BARBARIANS. They want you dead. GEAT A CLUE! Fox News has nothing to do with your ridiculous points.
Fox News Rocks!!!!
Why can’t we just all get along?
I thought MAC stood for:
Moms
Against
Canada
Martin >
No, I’m really not at war with the whole Muslim world, but you sound like as if you are.
Actually, Muslims in this country (the UK) do stand up and try and keep their mosques free of extremists.
The problem, as the USA discovered on 9/11 and Madrid discovered some months later, is that – very often – the terrorists actually don’t act as part of the mainstream religious community and actually appear as secular individuals, so nobody really knows what they’re doing.
When a guy like McVeigh did what he did, I don’t remember anyone running around saying that his “faith” community should have realised what he was doing and given him up. And we certainly don’t hear that kind of language when “pro-lifers” (sic) bomb abortion clinics or murder doctors.
You speak as if ALL Muslims are the same: like they all run around with tea-towels on their heads whilst brandishing a rocket launcher. You need to get a grip, a sense of perspective and possibly some education on the subject.
Without wishing to minimise their loss, under 4000 people died at the World Trade Centre. Over 40000 people die every year in the United States from gun-related incidents – in other words, since 9/11, some 180,000 people have probably died by gunshot, some by suicide (sad), many by accident (tragic) and far too many by intent – the recent case of the Californian ex-postal worker who is now responsible for killing seven plus her own suicide is a case in point.
Without getting too much into the politics of the discussions already taking place, I do have a few observations…
It seems no one is worried (in the least) of being called close-minded if they think America is the problem.
Some people show so much hatred for America (while shrilly claiming to be above hate) that it becomes surreal.
Some people have very short memories.
I would also like to just bring up the fact to certain individuals that no sane person is in favor of war. I myself find war to be the second least desirable course of action (the least desirable being spewing anti-war stupidity while an enemy destroys me and I pretend to be superior for not stooping to his violent (albeit effective) level.
Violence is not the best way to solve problems, but it can be effective against an enemy who only understands and appreciates violence.
While I understand that the only nation to use atomic weapons on people was the U.S., I also have no doubt in my mind that if Japan had such a weapon it would have been used by them (does anyone think seriously, for even a moment, that Hitler would have declined to use atomic V2s on London?). The difference is that America used this powerful weapon to stop a war. Did we need both of them?
Who am I to say? I do know that Japan had claimed many times that if we should invade the islands, they would fight to the last man, woman, and child. I believe them. They had pilots who would kill themselves to take a few of our guys along.
So we showed them that we were willing to kill the last man, woman, and child with two bombs (and we let them believe there were more where those came from) and they surrendered. We set up a constitutional government, removing the theocratic aspect of their governance (remember, the emperor was thought to be divine) and now they are a great, prosperous ally.
But I would ask those who condemn our course of action to remember that we were victims of a sneak attack that thrust us into a war we didn’t start (we just finished it).
We can (I hope) all agree that the most powerful and destructive man-made force on Earth is the U.S. military (I say this with pride, mind you).
The fact that this force is harnessed to come to the aid of the Muslims in the former Yugoslavia (or Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iraq), or the Jews in Germany (or the Jews in the Middle East for that matter), or the African Americans terrorized by the KKK is proof that America is not hell-bent on violence and world domination.
Make no mistake, however, that when attacked (especially a dirty, rotten, cowardly, sneak attack) we will become angry, focused, and very violent.
Continued…
(continued from above)
I really did not want to single out anyone (because there were so many half-thought-out posts that it didn’t seem fair, but…
Jamie Kelly:
I have been lucky enough to make friends all over the world. I feel privileged to call people of many different religions, countries, cultures and colors my friends.
Believe me when I say one of the things we all have in common is that we would call your ranting and your mindset “flawed”. (I am trying very hard to be nice since I understand you don’t like unpleasantness.)
I don’t know how old you are (and it doesn’t matter, hopefully you still have time to learn something).
Bare in mind that the following in no way is a threat to you personally, merely an illustration for educational purposes…
Imagine, Jamie Kelly, that you come up to an angry person on the street and you two are all alone with only a large heavy stick between you. The crazy person (for whatever reason) has no hands, just heavy club-like fists at the end of his arms. Near as you can tell he speaks no language you know and he cannot be reasoned with in any way you can imagine.
As he comes up to you and threatens you, you tell him violence is not the answer. As you turn your back to continue on your way, he hits you (hard). When you get up, you tell him again that violence is not the answer and you just want to know what you need to do to keep him from hitting you again.
As you can imagine, he continues to hit you. My question is, how long does it take before you wise-up (or as we say in Texas “Man-Up”) and use the stick on him to save yourself? Never? Hmmm…
Ok, maybe you have a death wish (that’s your business), what if you were leading a group of people who couldn’t protect themselves (old people, little kids, infants) and they were all getting beat on for nothing they did?
Will you pick up the stick now? Maybe you wouldn’t (how sad).
I wager that sooner or later you will learn something (either that the stick and its use have their place, or, with your last dying thought that you are a nitwit who has been terribly wrong).
We will pick up the stick, that’s all. We always have, and I dearly hope we always will.
Violence is not the answer to every problem, but it can be a useful tool and when you are the victim of attack, sometimes it is all you have until you get a little space and time to figure out another course of action.
Remember your history, America is slow to anger, but when we are attacked (especially a dirty, rotten, gutless, monstrous, sneak attack) by people willing to kill themselves to take us with them, we will become angry, focused, and very violent (I think we have showed remarkable restraint, given the circumstances).
And if we can help bring freedom to people, put a constitutional government in place here and there and create powerful and prosperous allies, so much the better.
Okay, and I didn’t mention politics (except for freedom, and who would argue against that)?
I don’t find anything wrong with iPod connections on a warship, they have TV and phones, right?
~M
For those calling for moderation:
What ever happened to freedom of speech? I am saddend by their comments, but do I get all “offended” just because they are made? No, I just see it as a revelation of the speaker/writer’s character. It is up to me (the receipient) to internally decide whether or not I agree, and then again whether or not I respond is up to me. Censorship is never a good option, personal responsibility is. If you don’t like a comment respond with your opinion or ignore it and move on. Don’t attack the writer/speaker’s right to comment because censorship of opinions nearly always results in corruption. Remember someday you could be on the other end.
Anyways, about the article; it’s good to see those willing to serve be treated well. If only more were willing to serve instead of be served this world would be a wonderful place.
MW = “these” are things to live by:
don’t worry about tomorrow for today has enough worries of its own.
It’s not what goes into a man (note above) that makes him unclean, but what comes from his heart.
love thy neighbor as thyself.
The greatest leader is the one whom is most willing to serve his followers. (alas if only today’s leaders understood this).
MCCFR,
You are a jack ass!
Craig>
Good argument!
Which bit of what I wrote was factually incorrect?
MCCFR:
All of it. Go try to play nice with these people, we’ll see how long you last…
you know what? fuck this whole arguement.
anyone complaining about war wouldnt be complaining if “they” kidnapped thier families and burned them, chopping thier heads off, whatever. then, you would hate thier guts. This is true.
anyone saying where are the muslims revolting angainst the barbarism of their religion has every right to. I’ve been asking this since all this shit began here in the states. Calling me racist just proves you are a fool, because there is no basis for that arguement. I say bomb thier asses up as well.
as for jews, all that anti-semetic stuff is bullshit. semetic- the term- does not stand for jew. look it up for more info, dum dums. they have used the tradgedy of the nazi’s to take over all the banks in the us, as well as run the movie industry. who sees them sharing shit? no one. just like they all ways tell black folks, forget about the nazis and go on with life- sheesh already- shindlers list is s thing of the past. why would anyone want to remember that? note the cynicism in that statement.
shoot me and ill shoot you back. plain and simple. religion is “supposed to” bring people together- but in this world it is apparent that it is the biggest divider of them all- and is the cause for more chaos and destruction that any one person can imagine or mark down on paper. christioans do not live in the honor of christ- some of them have fun with little boys. Iraqi’s cry we hate you america riht after we freed thier asses from dumb hussien. seems a bit “bitch-like” to me.
some of you should actually try thinking in a manner bigger than yourselves or your own personal beliefs- then maybe you can begin to understand some of the strategic moves of the governments of this world to protect thier own.
shit, i’m just waitng for good ol blacks folks to give white people back what they owe them- a good ol ass-whooping. thats probably the one thing no one will complain about, cuz shit no one cares about them.
ill tell you one thing though- if it came down to me and my people and the enemy i will kill every one of them that i know,good friends also, even if it makes me feel bad because i love my self and my people and i am determined to protect us.
anyone who will look at 9/11 and then say what are we doing over there needs to get fuckign shot as well, because its bitches like you that will turn around and c0mplain after someone saves yer ass. be a real man and fight a battle ya bitch.
Mozfan, your argument is perfectly valid. I would hit the guy with the stick. But this isn’t about a man and a stick. It’s about conquering countries.
If I had stolen oil from the man approaching me, and invaded his country, he has every right to try and attack me.
Read a little Mozfan, you will learn that this situation that the ‘West’ has put us in is a lot deeper than you are led to believe by Fox News.
Mozfan, comparing invading a country to getting hit with a stick?
Wow! I’d smack someone with a stick, but I wouldn’t rape a country of oil!
Kathleen >
Well, I apologise for the 40,000 figure which is my memory playing tricks…
Here are the official CDC figures for gun-related death in the USA between 1999 and 2003…
Total firearms-related deaths: 147,488
Total violence-related firearms deaths: 142,334
Total homicide/legal intervention: 58,265 (which says something about suicide rates)
Total for homicide by firearm: 56,726
Total homicides: 89,332 – so firearms appear to be the method of choice for your average murderer, on a near 2-to-1 basis.
Total for homicide by firearm (Ages 0-19): 9,189
0-4 years: 270
5-9 years: 273
Just by way of an illustration, in some ways I find it more worrying that around 100 children a year get shot INTENTIONALLY by people presumably in their own community (or even worse, their own family) than the slim statistical possibility that I might meet a violent end at the hands of Islamic extremists.
By the way, 19 of the 543 deaths listed above were in Tennessee: when 19 people get killed by terrorists whilst visiting Graceland, you be sure to send me a message.
10-14 years: 710
15-19 years: 7,936
Total deaths by terrorism for the same period: 2,927 (2,926 at WTC, + 1 (?) in 2002).
So for the period 1999 to 2003, if you were a child under the age of 19, you were over 3 times as likely to die as a result of somebody shooting you with a gun than being confronted by some crazed Muslim terrorist.
And if you extend that to all age-groups, you were over NINETEEN times more likely to die by being shot INTENTIONALLY by someone who wasn’t a law officer than die from a terrorist incident.
BTW, seeing as you’re obviously reading-impaired, I do “play” (well, live peacefully) alongside these people every day, because I live in a largely intelligent, well-educated multi-cultural society. I don’t perceive people as amorphous blocs, defined by their religion – whereas you obviously do. A previous correspondent mentioned that Muslims are “thin-skinned” in response to criticism or satire, but then that could be applied to a percentage of Jews, Christians (Monty Python’s Life Of Brian anyone), Sikhs, Hindus or any other faith-based community.
—-
Mozfan> Nobody is claiming that Hitler wouldn’t have used an A-bomb on the end of a V-2 if he had the opportunity. However, there is a kind of hysteria at the moment which seems to believe that we’re all at risk from a wave of crazed Jihadists carrying nuclear or biological weapons down Main St. in some sleepy backwater in Nebraska or the High St. in Nuneaton here in the UK.
Terrorism is a serious issue, but we’re at serious risk of our intelligence services being overwhelmed by hysterical “noise” and chatter as opposed to listening for real signals of “practical” terrorism, which is far more likely to be a suicide bomber wearing a waistcoast made of C-4 than someone wandering around with a pound of Caesium or a test-tube of Smallpox virus.
Even worse, given the figures above, it would appear that – given the ease with which you can acquire weapons in the United States – you should be more worried about a group of misguided nutjobs running around with some illegally acquired Tek-9s taking a group of kids hostage as in Beslan.
MCCFR,
You should move to the middle east dick weed and practice your terrorist worshipping there.
MCCFR = Steaming Pile Of Crap
Wow,
This MCCFR character and other terrorist apologists are truly pathetic. Why can’t the Muslim population crack down on their problem???? Because they are the problem. Get it!
Interesting, isn’t it, that you present people with simple statistics and “real” facts as opposed to hysteria and some people can’t cope with it.
Where in my post do I say or imply that I worship terrorists?
Nowhere!
The problem as I have previously said on this site is that you Americans think you discovered terrorism on 9/11. I’ve never paid a single penny to a terrorist organisation – which is more than can be said to all of the Oirish-Americans who contributed money (by the million) through the Seventies and Eighties to the Provisional IRA through Noraid.
If any of you are interested (unlikely, because far too many of you can’t cope with dealing with your mistakes), Republicans “fighting” (actually bombing and murdering) for a united Ireland were responsible for the deaths of over 1900 people either in Northern Ireland or the UK between 1969 and 1993.
That figure is less than the deaths of 9/11, but as a proportion of the population (particularly the miniscule population of Northern Ireland), that’s a horrendous percentage. And far too much of it paid for by ignorant terrorist-worshipping Yanks, like beloved old hoofer Gene Kelly.
Interestingly (?), because of the way global terrorism works, the Provisional IRA swapped “business plans”, techniques and technology with groups like FARC (responsible for one facet of the narco-state that is Colombia) and various Palestinian and Islamic groups whilst being “coached” in camps by Libya (another state who we appear to have taken back to our bosom) and others. The Provos used the seed capital delivered by Noraid to build drugs smuggling/dealing, arms smuggling and “protection” rackets in North America, Ireland (north and south) and the mainland UK.
So, in effect, by funding the Provisional IRA, “terrorist-worshipping” (your phrase) American citizens have actually helped in the creation of a generation of problems for Northern Ireland, Ireland, Israel, Colombia, Peru and the UK just for a start.
So, before you start slinging mud around, take a look in your own backyard, you fscking ignorant cretins.
Try here as a sample of the kind of “shithead” thinking…
http://www.angelfire.com/wi/northernaidwisconsin/
Still operating in 2001, and referring to what was happening in Ulster as a “war”, whilst hypocritically referring to 9/11 as “barbarity”. I’ll bet that the webmaster wasn’t quite so forthcoming when the IRA bombed Warrington or Harrods in the middle of London’s West End.
As for the Muslim population cracking down on their problem: in Iraq, they didn’t have a problem until you fscking crackers started inventing fictitious pretexts for a war that didn’t need to happen.
Actually, the country/ies with the problem are favoured allies of the West such as Saudi Arabia (a country that sponsors TV stations throughout the Middle East that endorse anti-Semitism and that sponsors madrassas promoting the ascetic form of Islam that results in extremism) or Pakistan (who – for reasons passing understanding – we treat as a friend despite the fact that a) it acts as a bolthole for Taliban and Al-Qua’ida types flitting across the border from Afghanistan, b) it has a nuclear capability combined with a military that can’t stop interfering in politics and c) it shared nuclear weapons technology with people who are definitely not on our Christmas Card list).
But instead, the USA (read GWB, influenced by Cheney, Rummy, Wolfy and the rest of the neo-con brains trust) was so obsessed with Iraq and Hussein that the USA and UK are now marooned in a state which is still ten years from stability, whilst Iran (the real problem in the region) are now going to carry on with their nuclear ambitions, because they know that China (for one) needs Iranian oil flowing into the market unless you want to see oil at $80/barrel.
Now, instead of hanging around websites, why don’t you dweebs who don’t have a clue about history go and get a education.
MCCFR,
You need professional help dude. Stop whining about the sins of the past and deal with the present moron. Muslims are the problem. They can’t or won’t police themselves. They preach hate. They are totally different from the IRA. Stop making yourself look foolish and get with the program Sally!
What do you mean “sins of the past”.
Do a Google on Noraid.
The group is still active. Still fund raising. Still claiming persecution by the “Brits”. And the IRA is still engaged in criminal activity. If you believe the IRA is different to Al-Qua’ida, you’re an idiot – both are involved in running drugs, both want a “colonial” power off “their” soil – the Provisional IRA wants a united Ireland and is prepared to use any means to achieve that end, Al-Qua’ida wants foreign powers out of the Middle East and is willing to be equally ruthless. How is that different?
And anyone who believes that there is no “hate” in Irish Republicanism is living in a fools paradise. There are still bars you can go to throughout Ireland and, if you speak with a British accent, the entire bar will turn its back on you (odd, seeing as my family only came to Britain in 1947).
I love the convenient way in which people like you come out with bullshit like “stop whining about the sins of the past” when it applies to problems that other countries have with the behaviour of groups like Noraid and their supporters.
Curiously, you don’t seem to be willing to deal with the “problem” in your backyard, as you wish Muslims to do – I’ve been in close proximity to two IRA bombs as a child. One of my friends was protected by the Harrods bomb simply by being in the leeside of a building around the corner – she is still suffering from PTSD years later. Maybe I should tell her to “stop whining” and stop living in the past, you patronising fsckwit.
So, to summarise your position, everyone has to forget terrorism that might have been sponsored by Americans now that Americans have experienced the evil of terrorism. Thanks for clearing that up. Obviously, the pain of a terrorist attack against your country is greater than that of one against mine. Thanks for your sympathy. Good to see that “standing shoulder to shoulder” works both ways.
MCCFR,
You are nuts man. The IRA is bush league compared to the Muslim problem. Stop throwing out red herrings and just admit that you are a terrorist loving Muslim at heart.
Firstly, Jamie Kelly and your echo:
We didn’t invade Japan before they attacked Pearl Harbor, and I don’t have numbers, but I’m fairly sure Japan’s oil reserves/exports aren’t all that impressive.
Or perhaps you thought I was referring to our present situation with my analogy. Interesting that you thought of Terrorists when all I told you was that it was an angry person who was not capable of reasoning.
Even given your inference, we never invaded anyone unless we were attacked or threatened (and we didn’t conquer anyone, we liberated them, they have elected their own leaders). Also, we don’t rape countries for oil. That is easily proven by how much more oil costs now than it did before 9-11. I’m paying $2.24 a gallon for gas, if we went to war for cheap oil, we would have it. What we have done is spent lots of our own money and sent many of our best into harms way. And if you ask our troops who have been there, they overwhelmingly say it has been worth it. As for Iraq, the last poll numbers I saw around the time of their elections said the vast majority wanted America there (65 to 70%).
I am glad that you at least have the grace to admit violence in defense of self is justified.
MCCFR:
I’m glad you too agree that the use of force was justified in WWII. Despite what you or Jamie Kelly may think, I have read and I have known people from the UK who have shared with me just how much of a sacrifice Great Britain endured to hold off evil until help arrived.
I sincerely hope that I haven’t given the impression that America came swooping in and saved poor little England from Hitler and the Germans.
I am a great admirer of the Brits in general and Winston Churchill in particular and I truly believe he would agree with me and my ideas of security and protection.
Mr. Churchill was a big believer in acting before bad guys had a chance to hurt you. He was a wise man. I think he would be as worried about “someone wandering around with a pound of Caesium or a test-tube of Smallpox virus” as he was about “a suicide bomber wearing a waistcoast made of C-4.”
I am concerned about both, and I don’t see how someone could dismiss either.
I do, however, think that perhaps because the people of the UK and Europe have lived for so long with Terrorism, that they feel the US is “over-reacting”. You are entirely correct that many Americans feel that we “discovered terrorism on 9/11.” But with our position in the world (literally and figuratively) we have been insulated for some time.
That does not mean our approach to fixing the problem is wrong. If, for whatever reason, the people and governments of Europe and the UK chose appeasement over confrontation and tried to eek out a peaceful coexistence with Terrorists and Terrorist States, don’t call us wrong simply because we prefer to stop them instead of understanding them.
Mr. Churchill was as correct about appeasement then as, I feel, we are now.
For the record:
I do not believe all Muslims are intent on the destruction of the west. I have known far too many of them to generalize them in that way. My problem is with Terrorists. If the US wanted to kill Muslims, that would be extremely easy for us. We don’t even shoot at them when they snipe at us while hiding in Mosques.
I have always been against the actions of the IRA. Although I am Catholic, I cannot abide by the means to their ends. (This is another reason I refuse to lump all Muslims together.)
I liked Lord Mountbatten.
continued…
(continued)
When Winston Churchill had won the war against Germany and the country loved him, he was advised that he should run again for office as an independent (above the fray) be (probably unanimously) elected PM then retire. Mr. Churchill refused saying (possibly not an exact quote, but work with me here read the biography a long time ago) “I fight for my corner, and I stay until the pub closes.”
He lost his position…
I think the free people of the world owe more to him than any other single person.
I also think he would be right where Tony Blair is, fighting to protect our way of life. I noticed that someone above referred to Mr. Blair as “poodle”. I wonder if you know the respect he has earned from so many in my country. It probably wouldn’t matter to you. Since you have written all Americans off as “dweebs who don’t have a clue about history.”
Perhaps to your mind we are ignorant of much of your history, and I won’t deny that many here are. But we are a young country and far from those events (again literally and figuratively). What we do know is that when a friend is under attack, you help them. Mr. Blair understands that.
Make no mistake, my ire is reserved for enemies, not religions, or nationalities. I am as adamant about stopping American citizens who decide to fight against their country because of solidarity with Terrorists as I am about stopping State Sponsors of Terrorism and Terrorists from anywhere.
And if you think the numbers of children killed with firearms is scary, don’t look at the numbers that drown in family swimming pools.
~M
Here here to Mozfan.
What upsets most Americans about Muslims is their deafening silence about terrorism and the fact that they do nothing to combat it. That’s why people above are lumping them all together.
Mozfan:
I’m concerned about both – but if you read what I said (which seems to be a problem for many here), what I’m saying is that we are in danger of developing a hysterical “climate of fear” which a) will prevent the detection of real terrorist threats (it’s a whole signal-to-noise thing) and b) expose the Muslim community to unwarranted suspicion and abuse.
In fact, if you read some of the crap posted above, we’re already into “all Muslims are terrorist sympathisers because they don’t do enough to prevent terrorism” line of logic (if I can call it that).
As I wrote earlier, the guys who bombed Madrid were not part of the Muslim community in Madrid. One was a former convicted drug dealer who had been in jail for smuggling hashish from North Africa or somesuch who appeared to have lived the life of a playboy for several years. In reality, the terrorists you and I want to catch are too cunning to turn up at the mosque in the community they are targetting ranting and raving and carrying a guide to building an NBC weapon – they’ve already gone underground.
My other point is that we overdo the whole sophistication argument: C4 or Semtex is a cheap, plentiful resource and, if you get in the mind of a Jihadist, it’s actually the best way to get your atrocity in the media. Photos and video of bodies cut to ribbons by flying glass has a far more shocking, destabilising effect than people dying slowly of radiation poisoning.
And finally, I’ll give you to dollars to doughnuts that many of the people who post the most ignorant opinions here have never even met a Muslim, let alone have any realistic idea of how they feel about their faith being perverted by people like bin Laden or al Zarqawi. Just as the fsckwit who runs the extreme-right British National Party (a resident of Welshpool in Shropshire) doesn’t really have any reason to fear an Asian invasion of his local pub.
MCCFR:
I do agree with you about the signal to noise thing. I am all for getting the best information.
As I’m sure you have gathered by now, I am also for going “all out” against any threat. And you are correct in your assessment that the fewer imagined threats we worry about, the more effectively we can meet a real one.
I would hope that you have also come to some sort of conclusion that I am not rabid, war mongering, or ignorant. Many of us Americans are well informed and interested in maintaining good relations with all of our neighbors around the world.
It’s just that some of us aren’t willing to let ourselves be destroyed to “appear” enlightened and tolerant. Wanting to stop Terrorists doesn’t make me intolerant, I think it makes me practical.
I do appreciate your tone in response to my posts. I always suspect people who resort to nastiness and name calling do so because they are worried their argument is weak. Thanks for keeping to thoughts and ideas when we communicate. And thank you for taking a side and defending it. People who can’t decide how they feel about something, or don’t want alternative views heard do nothing to advance ideas.
Just because we may disagree on some aspects of this discussion doesn’t mean we can’t talk it through. In an earlier post I explained my feelings that violence has its place at times. I would like to reiterate that it is in no way my first choice. I just prefer it to rolling over and letting the bad guys have their way.
Remember – “Evil prospers when good men do nothing.” or something like that.
I am a believer in punishing actions, not thoughts. I feel that anyone has the right to espouse their beliefs with freedom and the security that ideas should be shared and examined. I am confident that the vast majority of people will reject bad ideas and bad ideology. When these ideas are evil (and I believe completely that evil exists in the world as surely as good does), it should be called what it is and confronted. Sometimes this is easier to do than at other times. Very few people, for instance, will think killing innocent children is a justifiable means to an end. However, most things are not so clear. And ideas can be couched in seemingly innocuous rhetoric. Fair enough, everyone should have a chance to speak their mind (but that includes me too).
But when rhetoric turns into action and these actions (or calls to action) threaten me and my way of life, I feel I have every right to put an end to such foolishness. It may seem simple to some here, but that is a core belief of mine.
Words have meaning and actions have consequences.
I hope this explains my viewpoint and my posts.
~M
I know Muslims. Unfortunately they are not willing to put a stop to their problem. Get rid of the fantical religious schools that create these monsters. The many Muslims I know seem nice enough up front but press a little deeper and you realize that they really don’t non-muslims and could care less if terrorists kill us.
MCCFR – Your a strange one!
Here’s a final thought…
When you criticise Muslims (in a sweeping generalisation kind of a way), are you talking about…
Sunni Muslims: basically the sect that dominates Saudi Arabian society, and is largely responsible for the “insurgency” in Iraq. AFAIK, all those implicated in 9/11 come from a Sunni background, and certainly bin Laden and his No.2 are both Sunnis.
However, this is made more complicated by the fact that Saudi Arabian society is dominated by the ascetic, almost fundamentalist Wahhabi sub-sect (a name that is avoided by its practitioners in favour of Muwahhidun – meaning unifiers).
Shi’ite Muslims: in some ways, more fundamental in their beliefs, yet castigated by Sunnis and especially Wahhabi Sunnis – Shi’ites dominate the south of Iraq, near the border with Iran, and obviously Iran itself.
Sufi Muslims: the guys that most of us know from their “whirling” dances – quite a peaceable bunch.
Ismaili Muslims: about as peaceful as the Quakers and also as tolerant.
—
It’s worth remembering that when we ask why Muslims are not doing more to prevent terrorism, that Shi’ite Muslims are doing as least as much of the dying in Iraq as Coalition forces, given the way in which Sunni insurgents (who mainly supported the old Ba’athist regime) are ruthlessly using terror in an attempt to destablise the new democracy in that country.
It’s also worth remembering that it appears that no one seems to think it’s worthwhile keeping a body count of civilian Iraqis who have died either during the overthrow of Saddam Hussein (by getting in the way of those pesky bombs) or after (by being casualties of the insurgency).
I’m not sure how much more someone can do to convince you they’re not a terrorist other than be killed by a terrorist.
Bottom line is they could unite against terrorism. They don’t. MCCFR, you are sick in the head.
Nate>
Sunnis don’t mix with Shi’ites, Shi’ites don’t mix with Ismailis: Islamic politics make the politics of Northern Ireland look like a picnic in comparison, because each faction accuses the other of apostasy or heresy – hence the bombings and general mayhem in Iraq at the moment. It took thirty-odd years (post-War) for there to be a united front against terrorism in Northern Ireland (Corrigan/Williams – Northern Ireland Peace Movement) and, with the best will in the world, that’s a relatively prosperous well-educated enclave of the world in comparison to Najaf, Tikrit, or Basra.
Actually, your comment shows how little most people understand about Islamic culture – because the last thing you should want is a united Islam from North Africa to South-East Asia. Such a condition would be ripe for a so-called Mahdi to appear (some believe that bin Laden intends to reveal himself as such at some “dramatic” moment) and lead the easily-led and impressionable into a full-blown Jihad with the developed world. The last time that happened, the British landed up having problems in the Sudan for five years (do Gordon and Khartoum ring any bells?).
Greggory from Chichester is actually closer to the solution: however, we would need to lean on Saudi Arabia to stop funding Wahhabiist madrassas in Pakistan and other countries, and equally encourage local Muslim communities to recruit imams and scholars from within their local community as opposed to those who have been trained/indoctrinated in the more ascetic, puritanical forms of Islam which is all too prone to being corrupted into extreme near-paranoid xenophobia (see how quickly this week’s protests over cartoons developed, despite the horrendously anti-Semitic material that is seen in many Arab papers and on a lot of (Saudi-funded) Arabic television).
However, the problem for the West is that we almost need Saudi Arabia (well, their oil anyway) more than they need us, so giving them a dressing-down isn’t going to be too easy for “oil-addicted” America’s State Department or Britain’s quite frankly useless Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
I’m not sick in the head: I just recognise realities and bother to discover something a little deeper about people, some of whom have the ability to ruin my day.
Again why don’t the suppossed masses of good deed doing Muslims who are suppossedly not terrorists step in and put a stop to this nonsense. Answer, they’re all terrorists at heart. They worship a terrorist religion and when they start nuking western cities they are going to find themselves being exterminated in retaliation. All of them. Their way is a living hell and only a terrorist muslim would want to live their sickening lifestyle.
Muslims are completely crazy. They have zero tolerance for any other ways but their way. Look at how they are reacting to a freaking cartoon about Mohamed. Who gives a rats ass. These people have done much worse than create a cartoon towards every other religions. Why is their religion the only one that matters or if a cartoon is written/drawn about it they go balistic and riot and burn and threaten to kill and torture the west. MCCFR you terrorist worshipper, we can not and will not let these freaks of nature compromise our way of life. We are not going to tolerate it. Muslims are proving to be a very scummy, murderous bunch.
Sorry, did I not bring up that very point about the cartoons in my last post?
Do any of you people actually read anything?
Seriously, I’ve never said anything defending terrorism – but have received nothing but abuse for saying that not all Muslims are terrorists.
Fred and others use the same bullshit argument, which is analogous to saying “why don’t all the good deed doing Christians stop pro-lifers (invariably Christians) from bombing family planning clinics?”. It’s an idealistic view and (as I’ve tried to point out – shame nobody here seems to be able to read and comprehend, but I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is a great proportion of the MDN readership who don’t relish intellectually challenging viewpoints), the terrorists very often maintain a secular profile in order to hide themselves from security forces as in Madrid or Frankfurt prior to 9/11. How can the Muslim population of a country inform security services when they don’t know what’s going on themselves?
Also, how about the security services doing their job – for which they receive a ludicrous amount of taxpayers’ money on both sides of the Atlantic – a little better?
American security services had some advance intelligence about some of the people involved in 9/11 and did nothing. British security services had at least one of the bombers involved in 7/7 on their files and dismissed his involvement as “peripheral”, despite the fact that he’d been known to attend radical madrassas in Pakistan and had met suspected Al-Qua’ida contacts. Truly amazing. How about the incidents in the UK (reported I seem to remember in several Sunday broadsheets last year – probably wouldn’t reach that many of you as you’re probably reading the cartoons in USA Today) where community elders have informed police about suspected infiltration of mosques to be met with an atmosphere of complacency and disbelief? What do you suggest they do – go and get a semi-automatic weapon (not legal in the UK, unless you want to go and speak to some very dodgy people) and confront suspected terrorists themselves?
As I’ve said, if you people got out of your dark little computer dens once in a while and kept up with more than one news source, you’d be amazed at what goes on in the real world.
Many of you have obviously long since gone through the looking glass where you can no longer tell the difference between the way the world really works and Hollywood fiction. In addition, you’ve also done exactly what the terrorists desire: you’re living your life in the fear of an entire religious group, most of whom live their life peacefully, just trying to get a better standard of living for their families. The more you express your hate, mistrust and prejudice, the more radicalised many of these people will feel until the rift between the two societies becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
MCCFR,
You are off your rocker sir. Comparing Christian nut cases that mabe committed 5 acts of terrorism in 30 years to Muslims????? No comparison pal. Muslims preach hate and want to kill everyone who does not believe what they believe. They even hate each other if they don’t practice the exact same flavor of Islam. They are f*cking crazies.
Bartt said:
“Muslims preach hate and want to kill everyone who does not believe what they believe”
Explain yourself then. What EXACTLY do you mean, do you have any proof of this? If so, I’d report it because if what you say is true then there are laws against it.
Until then, I’d keep your fscking racist opinions to yourself.
Fuck this site, I’ve never read such blatant racism from people in my life. I can quite honestly say I’ll never return here as long as there are idiots who believe we’re fighting a “War on Terror” (good old George W has you sucked in) and the only answer is to wipe out an entire race (?) Absolutely, 100% disgraceful.
No little Jamie Kelly,
George Bush has no one suckered. Open your eyes fool. Muslims hate non-believers. They want you dead. This has absolutely nothing to do you George Bush you F*ck Tard. You will not be missed and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
and tossers like Kevin can eat shit, George W has you wrapped round your little finger! Poor little thick-as-pigshit Americans don’t read or understand history, just know how to bomb first ask questions later.
FYI all you Yank retards, Terrorism DID NOT BEGIN on 9/11, sooner you realise that the better for you guys so you won’t look so stupid when you harp on about the twin towers. It was a disaster, but not the first and certainly not the last, if your pathetic ‘Administration’ carries on its’ course of invading countries that pose no threat (WMD’s anyone????? Where are they?????)
MW: last – this is the last word. Believe.
To Jamie Kelly:
You might be very disappointed in how well a “law” will protect you.
Don’t let the door hit your “bum” on the way out.
To the one who agrees with Jamie Kelly:
I stated in an earlier post that it is very true terrorism didn’t begin on 9-11, but for the vast majority of Americans, that was our first exposure to it (certainly on our soil).
I will repeat:
If the appeasement-minded Europeans (I will grant that the Brits were anything but when it comes to Northern Ireland) insisted on trying to understand Terrorists instead of trying to stop them, that is not the problem of America.
Many of you like to say that we Americans don’t know our history, when in reality you are offended because we don’t know your history. I do remember some shared history…
When Europe (and the Brits) fail at trying to appease an enemy who is bent on the domination of the world, America is willing to step up and do something about it. Thankfully, Great Britain realized its mistake before it was too late (thank you Mr. Churchill). America stayed on the sideline offering support until we were attacked, then we jumped in with both feet and the good guys won. Some here disagree with how we managed it, but I would think everyone is glad we did (if you would prefer the other side had won, then show yourself so we can discount everything you say from now on).
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. According to what you said, you have been living with Terrorism for many years. It is not our fault that you chose to live with it. We have been attacked and we choose not to live with it. We choose not to appease those killers who preach hate.
I do not believe all muslims are Terrorists. I do believe we need to do everything possible to stop those who use terror (and as I stated earlier to me that includes the IRA). And despite what you might think of George W. Bush, we have not been attacked again with his policies in place.
~M
Who gives a sh*t a what moment terrorism started. Who cares if 9/11 was America’s first major Muslim terrorist attack. You Eurotrash are freaking retarted. The message is: You F*CK with us we will come after you hard. The WMDs were moved to Syria and Iran. Bottom line is who cares if there were or were not WMDs. The fact that we did what we did has shaken up the middle east and it was very much needed. Iran’s heading down the same path. Unfortunately the Muslims can’t figure out that they need to change their ways. They’re realizing the consequences of their actions now and will continue to.
Some people need to work for a living and right now the way the country is going i dont care what im building.
If you actually looked these ships are awesome machines