There was “no way that you would want to use [Apple’s old model] PowerPC Mac mini to watch HDTV. You could record it, but the number crunching necessary to play it back is beyond the G4. The Core Duo [Mac mini] on the other hand, should handle it with ease. The ability to play HDTV is critical for any machine that wants to be taken seriously as a home media center,” The HDTV Tuner writes. “The mini still doesn’t have a TV Tuner, but ElGato’s EyeTV 500 and Miglia’s TVMini HD will solve that problem.”
“So the Mac mini can now play HDTV happily. That on it own doesn’t tell us much. But it now ships with a version of but Front Row which can detect other Macs on your network automatically and stream music, video and photos from them to the mini, and Apple’s media remote control. Finally Apple has added information to the Mac mini pages on its website [here, scroll to the bottom of the page] that describe exactly how to connect the mini to an HDTV and how to set the resolution and other settings on the mini to optimise playback on a TV. It’s also provided links to a handful of third party sites which describe how to use the mini as a media center” The HDTV Tuner writes. “On their own, none of the improvements mean a great deal in HDTV terms, but together they suggest Apple is well on its way to turning the Mac mini into a high definition media center. All it needs now is to start selling high definition movies and TV shows on iTunes. Watch this space.”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Kenny” for the heads up.]
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Related MacDailyNews articles:
Apple Mac mini’s Intel GMA950 Integrated Graphics Core reviewed – March 01, 2006
Apple’s new Mac mini: perfect for HDTV – March 01, 2006
Videos of Steve Jobs introducing Mac mini, iPod Hi-Fi – March 01, 2006
Analyst: Apple’s new Mac mini ‘a good first step into the living room’ – February 28, 2006
Old Apple Mac mini G4 vs. new Mac mini’s graphics and video specs – February 28, 2006
Apple introduces new Intel-based Mac mini – February 28, 2006
I thought everyone was mindlessly moaning about how there’s “no way” the new Mac Mini can handle high definition
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This thing still has a laptop hard drive in it, yes? If so, then it’s not suitable as a PVR–at least, I don’t see a laptop drive holding up under such circumstances.
The article on http://www.macsonly.com makes me feel a little bit better about Apple using integrated graphics. It seems to be comparable to the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro. But the bad taste still lingers…..
Can it play HD videos and movies or not?
Jake
harbo:
2½” drives typically have a longer MTBF than 3½” drives, your opinion is flawed.
This article is a joke…the intel 950 is nowhere near the “speed” (hahah) of a 9600 Pro. According to extremetech, the 6200TC ($45 low low end card) trounces the intel 950.
utter rubish…good luck playing 720 HD.
Cubert, who cares whats in it so long as it does what you need it to do? The reaction to integrated graphics reminds me of the dud argument against using the Intel processor on principle, rather than basing the decision on facts. Intel is faster, simple as that. Integrated graphics are better (well at least for what the mini is likely to be used for ie a living room computer).
It now supports HD which it didn’t before. Thats progress. Why does everyone care how Apple implements this change?
Tim Coughlin
http://timcoughlin.typepad.com
People have been pointing out that, according to Apple, a Core Duo 1.83Ghz CPU is required to play back 720p HD Quicktime movies encoded in H.264. Is that relevant to HDTV playback?
Hi-Def MPEG2 or H.264? The mini cannot handle 720p or 1080p H.264 according to Apple’s system requirements.
Yes the mini can handle decoding MPEG2 but at 8GB per hr. for Hi- Def MPEG2, Apple won’t be selling 16GB HD movies for the Mac mini anytime soon.
ANSWERS.COM have lost at least 20-30% of its value however, given the fact that it actually offers something Google or Yahoo does not…
and given the fact it is an ADVERTISING company, just like Google and Yahoo.
Yahoo is valued at $45billion
Google is valued at $107billion
Answers.com is valued at only $76 MILLION.
This is definetly one solid company. It is gaining name recognition, and google seems to send alot of traffic to it. ( Every search you make on google, has a link to Answers.com )
Answers.com has also made some improvements to its site recently, adding new advertising deals as well as new advertising features. Including a banner on top of their site which shows only once when you first visit.
I would say ANSWERS.COM is a good stock to hold, it should do well even if the other hyped up stocks go on a decline.
Everyone please be clear:
Supporting a high-definition display resolution (1920×1080) is NOT the same as supporting hi-res video playback. This thing’s CPU and the intel graphics chip cannot reproduce even 1280×720 at 30fps, according to the published specs.
You can connect it to an HDTV. You CANNOT watch HDTV or playback any other currently-existing HD material (including the HD movie trailers from the Apple site) on it.
I have the old front row hacked onto my powerbook… Where can I download the new one!!!???
even the crappy web site ran in india ( REDF ) is valued at $65million.
How can an american company backed by Google and American customers (ANSW) not worth at least more than that.
Currently ANSW is valued at only $76million.
I think ANSWERS.COM’s stock is headed to triple this year. It is a good LONG TERM stock.
Yeah, the graphics card is crummy, but there’s more to it than just the performance hit the mini takes because of it’s use of an integrated graphics chip.
The problem with integrated graphics is that it shares your physical RAM. There is ALWAYS a performance hit using that type of graphics system.
OS X elegantly and efficiently uses unused processing power (and RAM) of the graphics card to handle many of the UI elements, freeing the processor to do the “real” work. So, when you use system RAM to handle those elements, it needlessly taxes the rest of the system.
Taking away the speed and RAM advantages of a dedicated graphics card is also important because the mini uses a 4200 rpm laptop drive, which is slower than a standard desktop drive running at 5400 or 7200 rpm. Because OS X is so dependent on the hard drive to handle the system wide virtual memory, it’s yet another performance hit.
The integrated graphics chip works counter to a lot of the elegance of how Apple has managed to use the ENTIRE system to squeeze as much performance, or rather spread the performance around the system as a whole, in order to let the slower G3 and G4 chips of the almost past do as much of the “real” work as possible.
Before you run out and get a EyeTV 500, be aware that it’s not a HDCP compliant device.
You will only be able to watch a few free “over the air” and ClearQAM (only HDCP DRM free) signals from cable.
The cable companies also tend to encode their content with their own scrambling system to their boxes, so don’t expect to get very many channels from a bare wire.
There isn’t a whole lot of HDCP free HD content unfortunatly. I get three to five channels of HD.
It’s very nice to have it though, makes SD look like crap on my 30″.
But I do advise you getting a EyeTV 500, perhaps two, because the media companies are trying reallly hard to get Congress to pass a “broadcast flag” for these HDCP DRM free channels so devices like the EyeTV 500 would require a license which the media companies then can restrict so their content (even free stuff) can’t get on a computer and over the internet.
You should also get a EyeTV200 or two, reason for this it has component video inputs, there is a black market HDCP cirumvention device that will convert digital HD with HDCP to high res VGA, then with a VGA to component cable you can then import the HD content and record it using the EyeTV software into Quicktime for editing or burning to DVD’s.
I also advise getting one of these last PowerMac G5’s, preferably a Quad, because the new Mactels have EFI, which basically steps between the OS/software and hardware, makes connections to the internet without the OS.
Part of the Trusted Computing conspiracy of course, the clampdown is approaching rapidly and silently.
You can learn more by visiting
http://www.eff.org/
Why doesn’t everyone just wait and actually try to play HD content on the mini? Articles like these are for guidance only. All this quessing is stupid and ridiculous. Just wait till someone actually tries to play HD content on the mini then complain, bitch and moan if it can’t.
Well I was thinking about buying a new mini, but now I have this all-consuming urge to invest in Answers.com stock
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This would be fine if ElGato’s EyeTV 500 were still actually available to potential U.S. users. The EyeTV 500 was axed because it was a FireWire device, and I think it stopped being sold sometime last June.
You can still find it listed on their website, but there is no “buy” button. There is also a link to the Apple Store, but it’s not listed there. A search at the Apple Storeonly brings up the EyeTV 200, a USB device like Miglia’s TV Mini HD.
There is no way I’m gonna bother watching recorded HD content after it’s been squeezed thru a USB pipeline. Might as well stick with a VCR and regular broadcast TV signals.
When the switch to digital broadcasting is made, I’ll just buy a converter box to use for my VCR. I only record to time-shift and a converter box will probably be cheaper anyway.
my 1.5 ghz powerbook g4 holds up just fine at playing back 480 p hdtv movies. it usually handles 720’s great also… unless I have a ton of programs running. I figure the mac mini will be at least as good… so why the worry?
Yeah, seriously… the graphics don’t sound that bad. This is not a super high end computer, but it does seem strong enough for HD playback.
Some of you guys are so sour, you’d make a lemon pucker.
What is a TV?
EyeTV 500 is available at the Elgato site for $349
Unfortunately a lot of cable boxes output DVI or HDMI to go to a HDCP HDTV, the EyeTV 500 has cable (coax) inputs.
So to hook a EyeTV 500 and get any unscrambled channels onto your Mac you’ll need to put a splitter on the coax cable before the cable box and then a black market HDCP stripper/VGA converter and a EyeTV 200 after the cable box.
CONFIRMED!
New MiniTel is a loser in graphics
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20060301101017813
No such confirmation. It’s the same argument everyone is having. Note the comment regarding the MacFixit article.
Confirmed: Nothing new!
“R”:
I think the reason people are worried is that Apple says that you need at least a Core Duo 1.83Ghz to play 720p H.264 content.
I had a 1.67Ghz Powerbook for a while, and while it could play 720p, if you actually watched the fps it was getting around 12 out of 24 frames per second. It could handle 480p perfectly though.
My 2.6Ghz Athlon64 computer plays 720p from Quicktime perfectly without dropping any frames, but 1080p loses frames.
I’ve heard that the 1.83Ghz iMac Core Duo can play 1080p Quicktime movies perfectly, but the CPU utilization is around 70% or more when doing so – and that is with the ATI x1600 helping out.
This ain´t a computer folks, its a fancy video player.
Apple should take the “Mac” name off it and call it something else. iTv or iVid perhaps.
People please get the facts right before making stupid comments about the new Macmini performance! Directly from intel.com:
– Up to 2048×1536 resolution for both analog and digital displays
– Consumer Electronic display (Digital TV) support
– Display hot plug support to automatically detect new display connection while system is operating (CRT and DVI)
– Two Serial Digital Video Out (SDVO) ports for flat-panel monitors and/or TV-out support via Advanced Digital Display 2 (ADD2) cards or Media Expansion Cards
– Intel Media Expansion Cards available providing TV-out and PVR capability
– Multiple display types (LVDS, DVI-I, DVI-D, HDTV, TV-out, CRT)
– Dual screen support through ADD2 digital video devices
– HDTV 480i/p, 576i/p, 720i/p and 1080i/p display resolution support
– Interlaced Display output support
– 16×9 and 16×10 Aspect Ratio for widescreen displays
– 2×2 Panel Scaler
It has some overall nice specs… Check out yourself if you don’t believe me.
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/
Without reading the specs, Mr. Reee said “the mini uses a 4200 rpm laptop drive”
Nope.
The new mini uses a 5400RPM, 2.5″ drive.
Specs: Okay, I was assuming that it was a 4200 rpm drive.
Yeah, yeah, NEVER assume!
I stand corrected.
Still, Apple should have used a dedicated video card. There’s always Rev. B…
… a bechmark made a year ago on a different platform doesn’t prove anything. Only that XP or DirectX had issues with a new technology which was at the time propably too advanced for them
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If Tivo Series 3 will support zero config (aka Bonjour) then that would solve the problem of using the MacMini for HDTV viewing. However, it would seem that other companies would rush to fill the gap creating a firewire based under Mini box that would contain one or more QAM compatible tuners with cable card support.
Jaakko,
As previously stated, this means the card will support these output modes as a graphics monitor. The CPU in the mini cannot (according to Apple’s latest specs) decode h.264 video at 30fps HD resolution, and even if you overclocked the hell out of the CPU, the intel graphics chip can’t handle it.
Again — viewing your desktop & apps at high resolution is a different animal from displaying 30 progressive HD frames of hi-res video per second.
… Ok it doesn’t state which HD it decodes but again from intel.com if the GPU decodes HD i guess the CPU doesn’t have to.
– High Definition Hardware Motion Compensation to support high definition hi-bitrate MPEG2 media playback
– High Definition Content Decode – up to two stream support
Correct me if I’m wrong.
I’ll take a cab to Soho Apple Store tomorrow and I’ll buy one… Then I can tell everyone for sure what it plays and what it doesn’t play
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Deal or no deal?
No one on this thread seems to really know the answer to whether the mini can play high def. H264, but that doesn’t stop them from “expressing themselves”!
Apple needs to clarify this–their recommended specs for viewing HD 264 are obviously dated.
Kate
While I hope you’re right, you should know that playback of HD MPEG2 is MUCH less demanding on the processor and graphics card than playback of HD264.
Jake
I understand what peoples’ comcerns are, but the arguments are whiney. The mac mini is what it is. Does anything think they aren’t aware of how it performs? They want people to buy UP. You may not like it, but this is business.
They could create the most amazing mini that rivals a top end computer– for what purpose? They aren’t dumb. Is it annoying. Yes. Such is the way this works.
If there were complete satisfaction with the mini, why bother even having an iMac or above?
Real world tests will ultimately decide, but man o man, some of these seem so silly. Complain when you see what it really is. Otherwise, just speculate and leave out the venom.
Let these posts and the many others regarding issues with Apple be evidence that just because we love our Macs does not me we love everything Apple does like mindless Mac Zealots.
iMike
MACDUDE — Will you please STOP with this Chicken Little bullsh-t you keep spouting about HDCP?
PLEASE???
There have been plenty of anti-piracy standards implemented since capitalism began, and every single one of them has been circumvented. If someone wants to crack something, they will.
And the majority of people don’t care, because in principle the reimbursing of artists and creatives and copyright holders for their creations is a BEDROCK PRINCIPLE of the creative system as it operates within a capitalist economy.
So please . . .
SHUT THE F*CK UP about HDCP and DRM and the end of the world.
M’Kay?
Hey Jake
HD MPEG-2 content at 1920×1080 traditionally runs at 12-20 Mbps, while H.264 can deliver 1920×1080 content at 7-8 Mbps at the same or better quality. H.264 provides DVD quality at about half the data rate of MPEG-2. Because of this efficiency, H.264, an ISO standard, stands to be the likely successor to MPEG-2 in the professional media industry.
… but it doesn’t say which requires more CPU to decode…
I’m sure we’ll all be super happy if the iMac Core Solo can play 1080p content using the integrated graphics. I’ll be kind of shocked if it can, but that would be awesome.
There seems to be some confusion with respect to if a video card “is fast enough” to display 1080p. Some of the newer discrete cards like the ATI X1x00 cards can accelerate decoding of compressed video formats on the card itself which is why some people may be thinking the Intel GMA950 isn’t fast enough to decode H.264. However, if the cpu itself can decode the stream fast enough the video card doesn’t have to do any more than it would to display a regular desktop at 1920×1080. Which is to say there would be no problem at all.
from what I can tell the mac mini duo 1.6 should be able to decode a 720P signal because its around as fast as my G5 in that respect – a dual 2.0 w/ slowest card availbe so its hould be able to play 1080p
MacDude,
You’re right about the EyeTV 500.
It took a while, but I finally figured why I wasn’t getting the correct info at ElGato’s website. Even though I had selected their U.S. online store, I was being routed to an outside the U.S. area of their online store where the EyeTV 500 is listed, but can’t be purchased.
Makes sense. I guess.
I’m writing this on the new Dual Core Mac mini that is on display at the Easton Apple Store in Columbus, Ohio. I downloaded the Mission Impossible III trailer in 1080p. It plays full screen on the 20 inch display perfectly. Not a dropped frame, no stuttering of any kind. I’m impressed.
I was told the mini uses a SATA 3.5″ 5400RPM drive. By Apple themselves as I placed the order for the faster of the 2 minis.
Re: “Driver”
They said it was 3.5″ or SATA, or both? There are 2.5″ SATA drives for laptops, and the sizes Apple offers would seem to indicate it is a 2.5″ SATA drive since those currently top out at 120GB.
One other thing… THIS article is
WRONG WRONG WRONG… So W-R-O-N-G
Nowhere on Apples website does it talk about resolutions of the mini itself. It talks about TV resolutions which is old news “TV Tips” on the page itself. Other than Apple’s own ability to change screeen size in the System Prefs nowhere is OSX “optimized” for output to TV’s. You are still on your own when hooking to a HDTV via DVI, VGA or any other resolution with any other device and all the cables for the most part ARE 3rd Party ones.
Don’t get your hopes up Home Theater enthusiasts, nothing has changed, the hurdles remain the same. it’s the same old cables we’ve already known about for some time.
I’ll guess we will see when someone hooks a new Mini to their DVI HDTV what we will get out of it.
Of course without the QAM decoder and HDCP stripper there won’t be very many channels to watch.
I know.
Schmluss:
you can’t see the whole 1080[p video of the MI:3 trailer on a 20″ monitor – it doesn’t have enough pixels to show the trailer pixel for pixel.
HOWEVER
*IF* that is the case – it bodes well that the Core Duo Mac Mini will handle playback of 1080p h.264 content on 23″ monitors and 1080p DVI screens (like my Sharp Aquos 45″ LCD), because then, it won’t have to do any scaling.
Scaling either direction, and scaling to non-^2 sizes (320×240 -> 640×480) is a LOT of work… so if it could handle it scaling down to a non-rounded size, we could be in for good news with this gizmo.
Glad the article has provoked so much discussion
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Time to clear a few things up. First of all, I haven’t tested the new Core Duo mini playing HDTV to a HDTV Ready TV. So, to some extent the piece is speculative, hence the question mark in the title. However, there is a great deal to support its central theme.
1. As has been pointed out already, decoding H.264 in QuickTime Player is entirely different to streaming and playing the MPEG-2 encoded HDTV that is broadcast in the US. So, Apple’s system specs mean nothing in this respect.
2. Driver – re: “Other than Apple’s own ability to change screeen size in the System Prefs nowhere is OS X “optimized” for output to TV’s.” Read the article again. I didn’t say Mac OS X was optimized. I said Apple provided info on how to optimize the output from the mini to an HDTV. Given that optimize means ‘make the best of a given situation or set of resources’ that is exactly what Apple does when it explains which adaptors you need for various connections and what to set in Sytem Prefs.
3. Until someone gets a Core Duo mini, hooks it up to an HDTV and an EYTV 500 or TV MIni HD, we won’t know the answer. But given the results I’ve seen on the web for video encoding (which is a good test of raw processor grunt) on the MacBook Pro and Intel iMac in comparison to Power PC based Macs – I’d be very surprised if a 1.6GHz Core Duo isn’t powerful enough to play streamed 720p or 1080i MPEG-2.
4. Could someone explain to me why the graphics card is relevant to this discussion – its the processor which does all the grunt work – which is why the system specs for HD QT movies are so low (64MB graphics memory) for the graphics card.
Thanks again for the feedback. When I’ve had a chance to play with a new mini, I’ll update the site.
Whatever happened to computers? All everyone talks about is “content”.
If I LEGALLY PURCHASE a DVD or CD (weather it be music, video, or software), all I want to do is be able to make a backup of it (or, say a mix cd). That’s it.
Pirating, illegally ripping and the like are just causing MORE laws and harsher DRM. But there’s really no stopping it – they are going to squeeze the average user to death to keep control.
Here’s a fool proof way to get your HD “content” in the future – buy an HD TV camera and a tripod. Set it up in front of your TV and record the show. It’s going to look like shit, but you’ll have your content.