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And the pressure builds against Adobe...

But I rather see a iOffice package that will put the pressure on Microsoft, take some of their money instead.

Looks like Apple is just a opportunist bully.

Shame. The big fun of Pages now is that I can actually type faster than the symbols appear onscreen.
Apple: always taking the fun away.

With the addition of spreadsheet, looks like Apple is taking on Microsoft Office, not Adobe. I doubt that the Pages layout improvements is going to be geared at high-end DTP like InDesign (or even the late lamented PageMaker).

I was going to look into MarinerPac, but I may hold off till iWork '07 comes out. If Pages can open Word documents and the spreadsheet handle Excel, I may be able to say good-bye to Office, especially since I've been getting a lot of spinning beachballs under Rosetta on the Intel iMac...

This isn't pressuring M$ or Adobe. They are two powerhouses, juggernauts, that have powerful tools for power users and corporations. Apple is offering software that makes it easy and affordable for the general consumer to design, create, and share their ideas and information with other people. If anything, it's pressure on smaller developers who's wares are more modestly priced than M$ or Adobe's that will feel the most pressure from these offerings. They are the ones whos meagerly priced apps won't be a necessity to accomplish the simple tasks that will be allowed by more powerful applications included in basic OS upgrades or simple Apple packaging.

vendor tries to induce public to purchase new version with "significant improvements." this is news?

I, for one, welcome our new productivity overlords.

"Before the beginning, there was this turtle. And the turtle was alone. And he looked around, and he saw his neighbor, which was his mother. And he lay down upon his neighbor, and behold! she bore him in tears an oak tree, which grew all day and then fell over -- like a bridge. And lo! underneath this bridge there came a catfish. And he was very big. And he was walking. And he was the biggest he had seen. And so were the fiery balls of this fish, one of which was the sun, and the other, they called the moon."

Excerpt from "I Think We're All Bozos On This Bus," from Firesign Theater (1971)

MW: future. Welcome to the Future!

don't believe this rumor, but if true, then this would be going after adobe, maybe not in this release, but it would be the start of putting out an app that would eventually take on indesign. it would be very hard to release something that would be 'primetime' with little or no bugs, with a first version release of a page layout program, but by version 2 i would say that apple could easily develop an app that could take on indesign.
and i hope they do.
although to be honest id rather have a dedicated page layout program from cupertino.

A spreasheet? I believe that when I see it. Spreadsheet is a biz app. I doubt that Apple is targeting biz with iWork. MS Excel kicks butt. It may be the best of all Office Mac apps.

Justme2, I am a Pages 1.0.2 user, I can save (export) to Word and I can open Word documents now with Pages. Excel, well that is another thing. But it is on its way!

If Apple really is consumer-focused, a spreadsheet program would handle what consumers SHOULD do, balance their checkbooks and budgets-- I'd guess like when Keynote and Pages open, a window would pop up with some general formats we all might need.

I already have used Pages (and Keynote actually) as a page layout program because I have no real knowledge about such work and it allowed me to do it without any trouble.

But the other side of this is that Katz could be trying to irritate Apple by getting Adobe's panties in a bunch. Ulterior motives, maybe? I mean seriously-- "New product will be improved." Woo.

I wonder if the new spreadsheet app will be called Numbers or Charts.

The spreadsheet app is supposedly going to be called "Charts."

From ThinkSecret report earlier this week:

Long rumored—or at least, assumed—to be in development, sources say Apple is not planning on positioning Charts as a competitor to Microsoft's Excel, but rather as a more consumer-friendly spreadsheet application that can handle the needs of home users and small businesses but not pretend to execute any of the more advanced functions of Excel.


http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0607charts.html

I don't see the "Adobe" link at all. Pages has a bit to go before it's as feature-rich as Word. Sure, it can do most of what your typical home user needs doing - and a few things they'll never bother with - but there's a lot of "professional" stuff they haven't bothered with ... no surprise. They need to get iWork up to a level beyond where the soon-to-be-late/lamented AppleWorks is - for SoHo - before they actually discontinue that trusty old app. That means a spreadsheet, and maybe a database. They don't have to be Enterprise-ready, but SoHo-class works for me. The database could be MySQL with an typical Apple/OS X GUI ... doesn't have to be "all new, all invented here".

Re: loki capret

You hit the nail square on the head. When I just read your post the light switch when on. I stopped reading other posts because it was game set match-bravo!

"Significant improvements": Perhaps a drop-down font selector box in the toolbar somewhere? Maybe?

Seriously, I have no idea what the UI guys at Apple have been smoking to not put a drop-down font selector in the toolbars of ANY Apple developed application I have ever seen. With over 5 years of Mac OS X and counting, this missing feature is becoming a criminal offense. Please please PLEASE Apple. Let's see in Pages 3 what should have been in the Alpha.

I agree with DLMeyer:

iWork's biggest competitor is AppleWorks. Currently AppleWorks does more, faster and better than iWork in many areas, but the iWork family edition has helped me produce fantastic presentations that PowerPoint (which I also own) cannot do and excellent reports for my daughter.

AppleWorks is still tops for vector drawings and laying out images - iWork cannot touch it here. AppleWorks is weak in paint, spreadsheets and presentation. I will keep using Office since I hate converting formats, but hope iWork can eclipse all my AppleWorks needs.

Bring back the old ClarisWorks functionality - ClarisCAD, MacProject, HomePage (maybe not, but had easy FileMaker web links), ClarisDraw, ClarisOrganiser (maybe no longer needed) & Claris Impact plus a universal HyperCard for education. Plus buy out Inspiration and include it in iWork - a fantastic app with no equal. There is still life in these old ideas.

Let's hope this is true.

Keynote is a good app, and Pages is a good layout tool for simple needs.

However, Pages is *rotten* as a word processor. And maybe it isn't meant to be one and Apple just didn't a poor job marketing it as a layout tool.

"I said, Live it or Live with it."

According to Shaw Wu these unannounced improvements are delayed. Stock will tank.

Ah crap, Drunk Cheney! You broke the President! Hey everybody, Drunk Cheney broke the President! Too bad Porgy Tirebiter and Nick Danger are retired. Now please deflate your shoes and follow the yellow line.

Apple is not taking anything away from Adobe. Just like Apple, nobody holds a candle to what Adobe creates. As a Graphics Director I swear by Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, Acrobat, and now Flash and Dreamweaver, in addition to their video media packages. And I think that Apple realizes that they have a much bigger foe in MS. Apple and Adobe are cut from the same cloth - creating premium software (and hardware, in Apple's case)

Why DOES the porridge bird lay its eggs in the air?

Just fix AppleWorks.

Now all we need is for Ralph Spoilsport to chime in.

I saw my name in the glass. Rapma. But I was looking for the same old place.

@ Voyager,

The drop-down font menu is dated. OS X's font panel is much more efficient if you actually know how to use it. It has search, favorites, etc., all at your fingertips, and always visible, unlike a menu.

I've been using Pages a lot recently and it has worked fine on my 1.5 GHz. Powerbook. However, I would like to be able to mix and match templates (ie. page 1 from one template and then switch to a different template for page 2, etc.) That would be cool! Although, you should probably already be able to do that with a 2.0 piece of software.

Coolfactor,
But you need the screen real estate for it to work well. I don't have that on my 15 inch Powerbook. So it is REAL annoying to work with the font menu in both Pages and Keynote. Although, I love both programs.

iWork is evolving into the next gen AppleWorks. After adding the spreadsheet module, it will have Word Processing, Page Layout, Presentation, and Spreadsheet. The following year, Apple can add a database module and rename it AppleWorks. Afterall, the original "AppleWorks" was the popular "8-bit" office suite program for the Apple II platform.

The previous (Mac) AppleWorks was a good solution for users with moderate needs. Most users don't even use 1/10th of the features found in Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. With a new spreadsheet module, iWork should also fit this bill nicely (especially if a new database module is added later). Apple is not competing with MS or Adobe here.

As I've said before, I've project managed million-dollar installations using AppleWorks. It loads fast and has a small footprint on the laptop computer.

Where's the drawing app for Pages? I've done great as-built engineering dwgs with Appleworks, clients have repeatedly asked what I used (expecting some expensive CAD software).

A combo MacPaint and MacDraw app with layers would be a great addition to iWork.

Since Adobe has swallowed Macromedia, is there any serious competition to Photoshop, InDesign, Dreamweaver, and Illustrator?

I agree with Ken.

Going after Office or Indesign is quite a task for market. However, a simple, effective, and intergrated application would allow Apple to get back with a total software solution on the mac. A person would not need to buy Office or a company at that.

It just makes sense as a user and revenue generated on yearly upgrades.

Bottom line!

Try this Apple:

Enable Pages to open M$ Publisher Files.

You thought of that, right?

Real people still use Publisher? I bet they think Pagemaker is neat. And FrontPage is really cool. The world just doesn't have enough dancing gophers and font vomit.

Looks like Apple is just a opportunist bully

--

Huh?

You guys are crazy.

MS PUBLISHER?! WHAT? Who uses that?!? Talk about niche markets..

This isn't about ATTACKING Office.. I have Office for Mac and Apple GAVE ME iWork for free.. (I swear.. Maybe it was a screwup, i don't know) with my new MacBook.

The sex appeal of iWork is Keynote... Pages is almost unusable just because if i export to the clumsy MS Word, everything turns to shit. That's Words fault, not Pages'.

Pages simply does things that are too cool, look too nice, and are too complex for Word.. and Word just pukes them up.

And to share things with people, it's gotta be in MS word format.


iWork is JUST about giving Mac users a great tool..
it's another 80 for Apple every year (potentially)

Listen. Apple wants be the Home PC for everyone. Windows can have the Business world. And linux gets all those servers.

In these terms.. Apple makes alot of sense.

Having said that, I like the logic of people who say, fuck PC gaming get a console...

Except gaming in general.. is for.. BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP

iWork SOHO:

TextEdit 2.0 — WP
Pages — Layout/Drawing
Keynote — Presentation
Pixels — Painting
FileMaker Lite — DB
Numbers — SS

'High-end' enough for real SOHO, low-end enough to placate Ballmer. And 'open' file formats, too.

OH, please! Pages is not even close to competing with Adobe products. Pages is for people who do not want to buy a huge, expensive, complex layout program that has a ton more bells and whistles than they will ever need just to do a simple flyer, or basic newsletter.

Non-pro's and home users need SOMETHING to work with that is in an affordable price range. And Adobe's products will just keep getting more complex and costly (same with Quark). Not complaining. That's all we use is Adobe and love it. But it's not for everyone anymore, it's a professional's program these days, not for the V.P.'s secretary who's told to produce the company's Christmas Party invite this year.

If Apple really wanted to 'wow' the competition, it would include iWork free with iLife, and include both (full versions) on all new Macs. Sure, it's great to be able to make music, videos, podcasts, websites and stuff all out of the box, but an equal amount of people who do that also have to make resumes, give presentations, and make some kind of spreadsheet. Wouldn't it be grand if you can do not only everything you want, but also everything you need, right out of the box?

Mac gaming can be awesome if one gets good software.

PC gaming is faster because M$ allows the game to take over the machine.

Plus the entry into PC gaming is easier as Apple doesn't offer a cheap expandable tower.


If you have enough money to 3D competive game on a Mac, your usually too old and your reflexes are shot to hell anyway.

Overall PC gaming is dying in favor of faster, cheaper, more powerful, dedicated gaming boxes.

But it's easier to make a profit from a Mac or PC game because there is no gaming machine "tax" or cd's to press and distribute.

Set up a website with cc and downloads and that's it.

Thanks for the input, Pages User -- I've been playing around with Mariner Write, and it didn't seem to recognize some things in my Word docs; I had to reinsert quote marks in one entire file (though others came out fine, oddly enough). I've still got the demo copy of Pages sitting here on the Intel, so I could give it a try.

Now I need to find an email/calendaring program that works as well as Entourage...

Oh, and maybe if Charts or whatever is successful, it'll lead to an educational version of iWork that'll be included on the 17" Education iMacs -- that would be cool...

I would love to dump Word. Boy, would I love to dump Word.

And the general paradigm of Pages is simply wonderful. It is a great re-thinking of the word processor, empowering people to create documents with impacts.

For two years, with each release of Pages, I have held out hope, only to be massively disappointed by the slowness, unforgivable bugs, and the missing basic functionality.

So I find myself now at year 3, and new promises of a better Pages.

I really hope the Apple is going to hit a home run with the next version. Add the 10-15 key missing features, fix the quirky UI problems, and stomp out the bugs and make it fast as sin.

Word stinks. I really hope Pages finally allows me to dump Word once and for all.

"Where's the drawing app for Pages?"

I've done some nice "drawings" using PowerPoint. I'm not a Keynote user, but I imagine you can use it as a object-oriented drawing app.

My only real problem with Pages is that I don't like all the windows you can end up with - fonts, inspector etc. I like to have everything on screen in one single window. That's me though.

When I began my 40 page master's thesis last year, I chose to do it in Word, even though I have Pages. I figured that since Word integrates with EndNote and it is a more "serious" word processor, this choice was best.

Toward the end of the projec the automatic footnotes numbering kept getting more and more screwed up. Nothing I did to coax the numbers into a good order seemed to work. Finally I tried opening the file in Pages. It opened perfectly with all the footnote numbers fixed and all the images and captions perfectly placed. Even when I re-exported it as a Word doc, the numbers there were correct. Now I use Pages for all my word processing.

Testify, Brother Dexter!!!

I just used Pages for the first time the other day and I'm impressed. I needed to write a report for a conference I had just attended. Word and I have never gotten along so I thought I'd give Pages a try. Love the templates! And I love that you can export to pdf, html, and doc format. Now if Apple allows the next release to export to ODF format as well, I'm totally convinced.

@ coolfactor

Yes, I understand all that. But I work on fairly small screens as well, and even if I didn't, having loads of windows open to provide lots of flexibility and power is often not as efficient as having those controls right in the toolbar, with more powerful windows being optional.

Just my 2 cents. I've heard lots of others say it too.