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Feb 06, 08 - 02:19 pm Comment from: wannabe

I've heard Apple has a whole department dedicated to making their existing products obsolete.

Feb 06, 08 - 02:22 pm Comment from: Eric

At least Apple products aren't obsolete BEFORE they ship like Microsoft's are...

Feb 06, 08 - 02:36 pm Comment from: Buster

My director just gave us a new Dell computer he ordered because his needs had changed and he no longer needed it. Anyway I took it to run a machine in the lab and when I unboxed it I started to laugh and point at the 3.5" floppy disk drive. I couldn't resist, played stupid and asked all the PC users what it was.
Thanks Mike Dell....I am having a good week because of you. I think I will go home and listen to some Hank Williams on my 8-track stereo.

Feb 06, 08 - 02:36 pm Comment from: mossman

Seriously, you're telling me you *wouldn't* be pissed off if you bought something--anything other than an Apple product--for $600, which it's been at for months, and the two weeks later (or whatever the price matching period is) the same thing costs $400?

It's not a matter of standing still--it's that there's no warning, no discounts in the days and weeks leading up to a product refresh.

That's thanks to Apple's culture of secrecy, and lets them put on a big show to introduce things. But, while most Apple actions benefit consumers (fighting for consistent iTunes pricing, iPhone UI, advocating end to DRM, etc), in this instance it's operating against consumer interests, so the "whining" there is understandable.

If you don't have the budget to be an early adopter, well you can join the rest of us who aren't. I bought a refurbed MacBook Pro because it fit in my budget. I would love a new Ipod Touch and as soon as somone hands me one for free I will be all over it. Meanwhile back in the real world, I will wait patiently while still listening to my 20GB Ipod, that still has decent battery life, for the price to drop. (The sticking point is the 20 GB level. My current Pod is maxed out so downgrading the hard drive size didn't make sense and the $500 price tag is too steep.)

So, wannabe, how is a product that I buy today obsolete when Apple unveils a newer product tomorrow? Do you even know what the word 'obsolete' means?

Feb 06, 08 - 02:41 pm Comment from: spliceguys

Actually, I understand that Apple sits and waits until I personally make a purchase before bringing out their latest updates a day later.. I've grown used to it. Now I know when I want a faster computer, that I have to purchase one to release the flow... It's just part of life.. If you don't buy on announcement day, then you are pretty much taking the risk any time that you'll be outdated the next day.

Feb 06, 08 - 02:42 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

@Radius, I think wannabe's tongue was implanted firmly in his cheek.

Feb 06, 08 - 02:48 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

MDN is sure right on this one. Tech moves fast. No company will stand still just because you bought something today. Their survival depends on making the product better and making it cost less. Look at the iPhone and the Garmin nuvifone. That Garmin phone is very attractive. Should Apple hold off on improving the iphone because those who have purchased the phone will be upset?

Let's say Garmin gets the nvifone to market for $300 and Apple, just to make whiners feel better, did nothing with the iPhone. I bet most of the whiners would run to purchase the Garmin phone.

I for one am glad that a company like Apple keeps improving the products I purchase. Around the time the iPhone gets to 48GB, and allows you to store files, I'll be in line.

"I bet most of the whiners would run to purchase the Garmin phone."

The thing is, the iPhone is so much better than anything else, the whiners WON'T purchase the Garmin phone, much as I wish they would go away. They'll continue to purchase Apple products and continue to whine. It'll never end.

Seriously, you're telling me you *wouldn't* be pissed off if you bought something--anything other than an Apple product--for $600, which it's been at for months, and the two weeks later (or whatever the price matching period is) the same thing costs $400?

I would only have bought it at $600 if it was a compelling value proposition at $600. Either it is or it isn't.

It's not a matter of standing still--it's that there's no warning, no discounts in the days and weeks leading up to a product refresh.

Sorta like buying a stock. It can go up. It can go down. And, get this, there's NO WARNING.

That's thanks to Apple's culture of secrecy, and lets them put on a big show to introduce things. But, while most Apple actions benefit consumers (fighting for consistent iTunes pricing, iPhone UI, advocating end to DRM, etc), in this instance it's operating against consumer interests, so the "whining" there is understandable.

If I were going to upgrade or discount a product next week, I should announce it this week. Wait a minute, that's unfair to the people who bought it last week. Better give 2 weeks notice. Wait a minute, that's still unfair...better give 3 weeks notice. Wait a minute, that's still unfair...

I bought an iPhone two days after launch. Then price dropped.
I didn't care.
I had the phone.
I used the phone, it did what I wanted.
When Apple soothed the whiners with the $100, sure I took it. Never asked for it but who turns down $100?
I bought an Xserve a year ago. They just came out with a better one at about the same price.
Good!
That means when I am ready to replace it I can get a better one, not the same one.
Geez - this goes on in all facets of retail. Are people really whining about this?

Feb 06, 08 - 03:08 pm Comment from: Davidlow

@wannabe, That department you're talking about is called "Research and Development". That's what you meant, right?

I have the same problem with my daily newspaper. No sooner do I buy a copy, than they put out a new and better model! And they don't even phase in discounts as the day wears on. I can buy an issue at full price at midnight, and by five the next morning it's obsolete. I don't even have a 14-day grace period where I can exchange it for the new model for free! But even worse, if I buy one on Saturday, the very next day, they come out with a new model that is larger and has better visual effects.

I'm so tired of the newspaper company. They can never make up their mind what the news is. Every day it is different. I guess I'll have to cancel my subscription.

OW! I bit my tongue. Shouldn't have had it in my cheek so long. I guess I made my point.

Feb 06, 08 - 03:24 pm Comment from: Brau

"Whatever you buy today will be eclipsed by a model with better specs soon."

Really? Tell that to the new iPod buyers who discovered they've been denied the previous ability to output audio/video to a TV/stereo. A gilded cage is still a cage.

When Apple dropped the iPhone price, everyone was up in arms. I had an online chat with Apple and told them that everyone expected the price to go down, but this was too much too fast. They said, well that's the way it is in the cell phone business, and they said they had the same thing happen to them with their carrier. I said, "But you are Apple. Apple doesn't behave that way." She was at a loss for words.

After that the protests got worse. I called Apple and talked to someone. I said that I understood that what they did made good business sense, and I realized that a refund was out of the question, but I said, "You just pissed off one million loyal customers who serve as your uncompensated sales and support team." Then I reminded him that Apple has good markups. I said that Apple could give us something that would be valuable to us that would cost them very little. The man got very excited. He said over and over again that it was a great idea, that he was going into a management meeting in few minutes and he'd suggest it.

The next day, sheerly by coincidence I'm sure, we got the $100 store credit.

What people don't seem to grasp is that your [apple product] is just as good today as it was yesterday, before [newer apple product] got released.

Obsolete doesn't mean something better came out. Your product is obsolete when its usefulness has run its course. I'm typing this on a 3 year old PowerBook that still works just fine for web development and graphic design. I didn't start whining because Apple put intel processors in my beloved PowerBook, and changed its name. It means that when I feel that this machine is no longer performing on par with what I need it to do, I can go buy a new shiny MacBook Pro at the same price I bought this PowerBook for.

Yeah, Apple, why don't you warn us about two months ahead of a planned update. That would make a lot of business sense.

I still like a quote from a previous similar thread:

"I married my wife when she was young and pretty and now she's old and ugly. It's not fair!"

Anyone still think moving to Intel was a bad move? LOL.

I switched when the 17" MBP was released and even though it has been superseded I don't feel the need to go and buy another one yet.

It's the best fucking laptop I've ever used. It shits from a great height over the crappy PC laptops my missus brings home from work.

Hmmmmm, you said.
"It's not a matter of standing still--it's that there's no warning, no discounts in the days and weeks leading up to a product refresh."

Yea, like Yahoo told you in advance it was killing its music rental store. After you just paid for a year in advance.

Apple. Buy a GREAT product. Enjoy it. When your finally ready for a new one, check back. They will still be making great products.

Just a thought.

"Tell that to the new iPod buyers who discovered they've been denied the previous ability to output audio/video to a TV/stereo."

Oh please.

Previous-generation iPods continue to play any video they did before, including to a TV/stereo. They just don't support the new, special, time-limited rental video content.

The new iPods support TV out for all video. See http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300233

Granted you may have to buy a new cable, but that's hardly the end of the world.

You said, "Good!
That means when I am ready to replace it I can get a better one, not the same one.
Geez - this goes on in all facets of retail. Are people really whining about this?"

BINGO. Right on. Continue to enjoy Apple products. I just bought my first iPod nano 3rd gen (a referbished model, looks like new). Love it.

en

thank goodness for Apple's HIGH resale value, you drop a little but not much and it is easy to keep the latest stuff.

Jim

So, what part of this isn't the obvious part?

@Chris: "So, what part of this isn't the obvious part?"

The part where MDN got you to go to a new page to view more advertisements....

"It's not a matter of standing still--it's that there's no warning, no discounts in the days and weeks leading up to a product refresh.

Sorta like buying a stock. It can go up. It can go down. And, get this, there's NO WARNING."

Nope, its even better than stock. If you got in at $200, and then it drops to $130, you have lost. If I purchased the 8GB iPhone or whatever, and later that very day something came out to replace it at 2X the specs, my purchase will still do exactly what I got it for. My 8GB doesn't suddenly become 6 or 4, it still has visual voice mail and makes phone calls, and lets me send messages and etc.

Why are we picking on Apple, this is true of EVERY manufacturer. They will always come out with something new, it will be better bigger and faster DUH!

Feb 06, 08 - 04:34 pm Comment from: iMacDave

About Mac resale value:

For those of you who purchased a PC on ebay, YOU GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR.

Seriously, selling a used Mac is very profitable. I should know.

"Seriously, you're telling me you *wouldn't* be pissed off if you bought something--anything other than an Apple product--for $600, which it's been at for months, and the two weeks later (or whatever the price matching period is) the same thing costs $400?"

Well, if I was buying a product to be cool, exclusive, or trendy, I probably would be upset that, suddenly, the cost of doing so had dropped and I don't look so cool and exclusive as I once did.

On the other hand, if I was buying a product because it solved a problem I had at a price I was willing to pay, then I wouldn't be all that upset.

I bought a $2700 top-of-the-line PowerMac G3 when they first came out. I needed a machine that would be able to run Mac OS X (I'm an Apple developer). People I knew at Apple said that I would probably be fine with it and there wasn't anything really new in the pipeline for at least a year. Six months later, Apple released a speed-bump (which is to be expected) and my high-end machine became the low-end machine. 3 months later, Apple introduced the PowerMac G4s. Was I upset? Nope. I'd gotten plenty of use out of my PowerMac G3.

If you buy something as a "toy", then don't be upset when a better "toy" comes out. If you buy something because you need it, it will still be just as useful even when better versions come out.

For example, I don't own an iPhone. Why? Because, for me, it didn't do what I wanted it to do. I couldn't develop applications for it, I wanted 3G, and I wanted more storage space. This isn't to cut down the people who bought it--I'm sure it works great. A co-worker bought one and I spent an hour or so playing with it and wiping the drool off the screen. But without those three items I mentioned, all it would be is a "toy."

Suppose you bought an 8GB iPhone 3 weeks ago. That 8GB is still as useful before as it is now. If what you needed was a 16GB phone, you should have waited until Apple released one. Why did you buy an 8GB phone if it didn't suit your needs?

"it's that there's no warning, no discounts in the days and weeks leading up to a product refresh."

Name another company that gives warnings. The "discounts" thing is rubbish, too. I needed a new Bike GPS. I bought a Garmin Edge 205 for $149. The first Edge 205 that I had bought about 8 months earlier had been almost $300. Did that mean that there was going to be a new version coming out? Yup. Did I care? Nope. I like the Edge 205.

Feb 06, 08 - 05:01 pm Comment from: ken1w

I feel exactly the opposite about Apple products, but I'm not a "newbie." The Mac you buy today may not say "cutting edge" for very long, that's true. In fact, I usually buy Macs that are on the "refurbished" page (or are otherwise in "fire sale" status) to reduce initial cost. However, Macs stay useful much longer than PCs, so the cost of Apple's innovation speed is mitigated for those who don't absolutely need the latest technology all the time.

Even with iPods, this is true. I bought a broken 1st gen iPod on eBay. After replacing the battery and polishing it up a bit, it's as good as new. Better, in fact, because the new battery has higher capacity, and Apple has provided software updates and new improved versions of iTunes over the years. As an audio media player, it works as well as current iPods and is only missing a few secondary features like gapless playback.

I have a feeling that today's 1st gen iPhones will also be sold and resold to new users for many years after replacement models are introduced.

Feb 06, 08 - 05:20 pm Comment from: HMCIV

You now who I feel really bad for? The guy who just bought the Apple IIc on eBay.

Yeah, quit whining some of us can't run fast enough to jump on board. We are still happily stuck using 9 year old macs that we refuse to let be pulled from our cold dead hands.

Or for that matter give up in the divorce.

"Quit the wining"

HERE HERE!

My first generation iMac G4 800mhz is still working away happily every day at the office - since April 2001... email, surfing, databasing, writing letters in MSword.

We run Tiger on it because for the first time we can't upgrade to the new Leopard.... it doesn't have enough oomph to run Leopard so it won't let us install it.

I predict that it will continue for another few years until one of the partners takes it home for surfing the net in the guest bedroom or some such place.

Feb 06, 08 - 07:14 pm Comment from: twodales

@old guy with beard

Exactly, my g4 cube is happily clacking along w/ Tiger and does everything the family wants (seven years into the mission). It's still the quitest computer ever made and despite the fact that I have replaced it as my main machine expect to run for years to come. Macs are far less expensive than Windows machines through sheer longevity and upgradability.

Walstreet laptop - still ticking, daily use for kids OSX

First gen Power book - still ticking, daily use (Teen student) 10.3

Second gen Power book - sitll ticking, family use Kitchen 10.4

First gen g5 - daily use Illustrator, Photoshop, Final Cut 10.4

Black MacBook - heavy daily use for presentations 10.4

All good and will most likely add a new tower next...

Thousands of dollars are made on the above machines for a home office...

What kills me is people complain when things aren't updated fast enough (i.e. 3G iPhone) and they do when there is a quick change. How can Apple win? They can't so the only thing to do is ignore them. At least their product lines are relatively simple, with other companies they use so many codes you never know what you're getting and get tricked into the older model. I think Apple is very transparent in this area.

Schwhy it pays to do some research before buying. I always try to find the schwerpunkt when it comes to hardware and software then watch for public confirmation of reliability before parting with precious pennies.

We have a few new iPods in the family but I'm keeping my 3rd generation until the Classic gets a widescreen or the Touch gets megastorage. Schcalled "the breaks."

Note to SteveJack: Newbies have a learning curve

I am a newbie and I am not whining. I know your comment is not be directed at me but just wanted to say you are an ASS for even taking the time to post this.

yo buster, all my hanks are on 78's and 45's, how'd you get em on 8 track?

This Koolaid tastes good!

The reality is with other vendors if Nvidia introduces a new accelerator or Intel introduces a new chip, you know you'll be able to get a product which uses it from most major vendors within a week or two of it's launch so you can read the pre-release roadmaps for those suppliers and plan when you'll be able to get the newer faster products you want.

With Apple, they don't roll the new technology in quite as fast, so you're left guessing, will they bring out the just released improved chip in 1, 3, 6 or 12 months from now, or tomorrow.

It's a pain having to either guess or just wait until they do. Given Apple's slowness to roll new technology through the product lines it'd be good if they could give out roadmap so people could decide whether to wait for Apple to start using the new stuff or buy now.

"just wanted to say you are an ASS for even taking the time to post this."

It's taken you this long to figure out that Steve Jack is an ass? Most people figure out he's an ass after one or two MDN takes.

If you have $400 or more to pay for a machine that also has great toy value while people are literally starving in the streets, get down on your knees and thank the Universe that you have so much dispoable income. Or, income at all, for that matter.

Can you walk down the street and buy food whenever you want? Do you go home each night and stay safe and warm?

Whiners.

"It's taken you this long to figure out that Steve Jack is an ass? Most people figure out he's an ass after one or two MDN takes."

This is his first for me so I suppose he continues his reign as Mr. Ass.

PRICE DROPS ARE PRO-CONSUMER!

hmmm. It's nice to have a product that is top o' the line. If you actually look at how normal people use the product, one year to the next there may not be much difference in function. For example, I've got an early Macbook Core Duo. For my email, internet, and even rendering needs, the thing works well. It's over 2 years old and I think, for the tasks that I am interested in doing, it will last me another 3 years. Product releases are more sales motivated than function motivated.